Do you agree or disagree with Yang on this?

[redqueen]

And a follow up question - did you already know about these suicides?

Link to tweet

Linked article from March:

Lyft driver found dead in back of car as cabbie suicide epidemic continues
By Georgett Roberts and Amanda Woods

A livery cab driver killed himself early Saturday in the backseat of his car — which was parked alongside a Queens cemetery, police said.

The man, whose name was not immediately released, ingested or breathed in “some kind of substance” in the backseat of his Hyundai Sonata at Myrtle Avenue and 75th Street on the side of the Mount Lebanon Cemetery in Glendale around 4 a.m., police said.

He had been a driver for Lyft since 2014, according to a TLC spokesman.

...

Many drivers blame the suicide epidemic on the meteoric growth of ride-share companies such as Lyft and Uber, which has pinched everyone’s pocketbooks.

And drivers and activists warned at a November City Council hearing that the “congestion pricing” surcharge on all Big Apple taxi rides will lead to even more cabdriver suicides.

https://nypost.com/2019/03/23/cabbie-suicide-epidemic-continues-as-ninth-man-found-dead-in-back-of-car

[handmade34]

1. no

[hay rick]

2. No.

I have no supporting (or refuting) evidence, but this is what I believe: For every Asian sweatshop worker whose plight draws international attention, there are 1000 who are ignored. The casualties of our gig economy have gained a share of the same kind of anonymity and indifference to their dilemma.

[redqueen]

4. I tend to agree. Moreover, I think predatory lending is to blame

as much if not more than increasing competition.

Bloomberg needs to be called out on those loans and on the loosening regulations which facilitated them.

The city made hundreds of millions, while these people are being crushed.

[cwydro]

3. I don't really see the two as comparable, but I guess I can see the point he's making.

I drove a cab back in the day for extra money. It’s a very cutthroat business.

I can’t imagine if one had no other choice but to drive a cab for a living.

And that was before the days of Lyft and Uber.

[redqueen]

5. I can kinda see the point.

I hope it at least gets a conversation started about another big reason these drivers are suffering, because Bloomberg has a lot to answer for there.

[cwydro]

6. Yeah, it's a very rough business.

I can only imagine what they must think about a billionaire making rules about their industry.

I wasn’t aware of this. I’ve been on a self-imposed boycott of all news lately (except here lol). That’s very sad.

[redqueen]

9. And I think that was kind of his point. I wouldn't have known about those suicides

if I hadn't been listening to his speeches and interviews.

[cwydro]

10. Glad you posted it.

I’m going to read up on this.

[NNadir]

13. I drove a cab for six months in LA. At the time, robbers were dousing drivers with gasoline...

...and setting them afire.

There were days I worked 12 hours and made less than two dollars. No health insurance, no benefits, hard work, abuse from the dispatchers, filth, no respect, and driving drug dealers around worrying if they were going to kill you.

I will never forget that life, and what it was informs me.

[Blue_true]

40. Why don't you write a fictional book about your experiences?

Sounds like you made a lot of interesting observations and went through a lot. In the era of ride share and the problems there, such a book could provide great insight for those that didn't live the life.

[NNadir]

50. Writing it would be reliving it. To the extent I am willing to relive it...

...it is only to encourage my sons to let them know that no matter how depressing things seem, it is possible to get beyond them.

It just seems strange to have been there now. As my life winds down, there are so many more beautiful and important things about which I'd rather speak.

It was not totally a terrible time, inasmuch as I was newly married, and all the good things that happened thereafter grew out of managing the marriage. My wife stood by me, albeit with difficulty, and helped me climb out of that, and that has made all the difference. (I will die grateful for her.)

At least for me, the job was just transitional, and I wasn't one of the hacks set afire by a criminal. That wasn't true of some of my coworkers.

[Blue_true]

51. You have a good perspective on it all. It is always refreshing to see people that grow from

difficult times instead of becoming embittered by them. Your wife sounds like a wonderful person.

[brush]

29. I drove a cab too back in the day before getting...

a stabler job. Times change though and taxis and livery cars are being obsoleted by Uber and Lyft, the ride share cars which come much quicker and are usually less expensive.

Ironically the ride share drivers will be phased out by their own employers if the ride share companies ever perfect the driverless cars they're testing.

And the ride share gigs aren't great anyway as the drivers have to foot the bill for their own insurance, maintenance and fuel for their own cars.

All they're getting from the company is an app that tells where a ride is but they then have to compete with other ride share drivers circling around. The nearest one gets it.

If that's a full-time job, expect suicides in ride sharing jobs too.

[cwydro]

30. People never realize how hard that job is.

I tip enormously.

[Blue_true]

41. I worked as a short-order cook while in college.

In junior high I had worked as a table buster at a tourist joint. The work is really hard. That is why today, I am patient when servers make understandable mistakes and I tip well. I also tip cabbies well. I avoid rideshare.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

43. I did concrete construction and ran a jackhammer for a (3) summer job in college.

I honestly don’t think I could hack being a waiter or working fast food.

[Blue_true]

45. The work that you did was no walk in the park.

I helped one of my brothers cut a sidewalk at his home one time, that was brutal, after a while feeling in the hand goes away.

[rampartc]

7. no

this is a feature of capitalism

[cwydro]

11. What? Suicide?

Um.

[rampartc]

16. no. stress.

can't compete if you aren't worried about the rent.

[Blue_true]

42. Partly. Financial stress can lead to suicide.

With the increasing use of robots and AI, and no real wage growth for the average worker in decades, lots of people are under financial stress. I believe in robots and AI, but I also believe that owners must share some the financial benefits reaped with displaced workers, that is not happening today.

[JoeOtterbein]

8. Agree...

...100%!

[KPN]

12. I don't know about international response, but yes, it's a real at-home example of how the excesses

of capitalism can be and, in too many cases, are disturbingly abusive to the humans who do its labor. He makes a legitimate point.

I like Yang a lot. I just don't think he has a snowball's chance in hell of winning the nomination this time, but he is having an impact similar to the impact Bernie has had over time in making the progressive case. He is building support for progressivism and human-centric policy making.

[relayerbob]

14. Nope

Wouldn't have likely have even heard about it.

[drray23]

15. Recently I had a talk with a uber driver who used to be a cab driver

He was saying that with the advent of Lyft and Uber, the cab drivers who had bought licenses in NYC, had seen the price plummet. Some of these used to go for nearly a million. Now they are worth $20,000... Many of these people had a loan to pay for it and now its devoid of value.

[Nitram]

18. There is something wrong in a system where a cab license can be sold for 1 million dollars.

Uber is doing us a service if they disrupt a system like that.

[brooklynite]

19. Let's understand something about taxis in NYC...

First, ALL for hire chicles (taxis, Ubers and black cars) are license and managed by the Taxi & Limousine Commisson.

Second, there is, in almost all cases, a district notion between taxi OWNERS and taxi DRIVERS. Taxi owners buy medallions as an investment and then lease them to drivers for 12 hour shifts. The drivers make back the lease fee for or they don’t. Consequently, they tend to stay where tourists and business trips are likely to be found, and avoid working class neighborhoods in the Outer Boroughs.

You can argue about the business merits of Uber et al, but in a changing world, nobody’s guaranteed that their business decisions will be successful. TNC companies are doing well because people like their services.

[Nitram]

20. I actually already knew all of that. I still say if a license can cost 1 million dollars, the system

is severely fucked up and needs some major disruption.

[brooklynite]

26. Now consider the alternative

Anyone can get a taxi license, so no medallion inflation. Resul is saturation of vehicles and lower income for drivers.

[Nitram]

32. The same could be used as an argument against affordable mass transportation, which is far

better for the environment and serves more people of lower income.

[Blue_true]

44. One time when I was in NYC, I decided to use a van service as a change of pace.

It was interesting. It picked up a group of fares at La Guardia and took each person to their destination. I must have gone over most of Manhattan before the driver dropped me off at my hotel as the last fare dropoff (not that I think about it, that may have been on purpose, because at the big hotel that I was staying at, he could get a new group of fares).

I only saw taxis from the backseat, but at the pickup points it seemed cutthroat, especially at hotels where the palms of the hotel employee who hailed a cab could be greased by cab drivers to give them favor, La Guardia was different, it was first come, first to pick up a fare, cabbies got in a queue line.

[relayerbob]

25. This makes no sense

Perhaps the price is crazy (which just says there should be a lot more issued - supply and demand), but they are generally being sold to companies who are making millions of dollars ferrying people around. Why should Uber/Lyft be allowed to operate fee and tax free, while their corporate owners make a fortune on the backs of the drivers?

Uber and Lyft (and AirBnB, for that matter) should be subject to the same taxes and fees that their competitors are, as they are part of the local government revenue stream. These companies are abusing the system just as badly as the others who find ways to avoid taxes (and some even get elected claiming that avoiding those taxes is smart).

In any case, the suicides are a result of stress and exacerbated by the shitty business practices from Uber and Lyft, many of whose drivers hate it (and yes, I hear that often), but can't find a better way to make some money.

[CTyankee]

38. Don't you think driving in Manhattan itself can be absolutely maddening?

I think it would drive me crazy.

[MH1]

28. Service for whom? Sure in the big picture (** maybe ** )

but definitely not for the individuals who are ground under the wheels of that disruption.

Or maybe those individuals just don't matter, if the big picture is served?

[Nitram]

33. When an occupation becomes dysfunctional or obsolete some individuals suffer. I don't see many

blacksmiths around these days compared with their heyday when the primary means of transportation was horses. I, for one, would vote for more mass transportation.

[brush]

52. Not necessarily. Medallions, as they're called, were investments...

that cab owners (often driver-owners) made for their future retirement after working many years on a tough and dangerous job. They provided retirement nest eggs for many years for people but now they've lost them, similar to how people saw their houses lose value in the '08 recession.

It's not a good thing for the ones who lost their future.

[Nitram]

55. Betting on the future value of medallions sounds to me like an unsustainable type of speculation.

The seem thing happened when the advent of the railroads bankrupted companies that were making canals. And then there was the Dutch tulip speculation madness in the 17th century.

[brush]

56. Why you're such an empathetic sort. Of course things change...

even those that have existed for decades and provided retirement futures for many, but I guess it's too much to think that we progressives might feel for working class driver-owners who became victims of change with the advent of ride share cars.

[Nitram]

17. Are you kidding? No one knows anything about the lives of Asian sweatshop workers.

They probably die, are injured, or get sick and are fired all the time and we hear nothing about it. Like a tree falling in the forest when no one is there too see or hear it. All politicians employ some hyperbole, but this is absurd, IMO.

[cwydro]

21. There's actually quite a lot written about it.

It’s why i won’t buy Nike products.

[Nitram]

22. But international outrage when one commits suicide? C'mon, it never gets that granular.

We don't have a clue what goes on at an individual level. Even when they try to even the playing field, they find to their utter surprise that, for example, cacao is still being harvested and processed by children working under appalling conditions. I give everyone who has worked to improve conditions a lot of credit and respect, but I harbor no illusions that they are doing much more than scratching the surface. If you have read about it, you must know that it is almost impossible to track because suppliers move from country to country all the time to find the lowest wages and the least regulation and enforcement.

[cwydro]

23. Of course. You're right.

It’s sad, and it does seem no one cares.

[Nitram]

31. I believe many Democrats do indeed care, but have little power to get more information or take

meaningful action to counteract worker exploitation abroad.

[redqueen]

35. Exactly. A lot of us do know about it, and care.

As for these cab drivers, I sure didn't know, before Yang started talking about it.

[brush]

53. Blood diamonds as well.

[oldsoftie]

24. Well, a lot of cops have also killed themselves.

https://time.com/5702036/10th-police-suicide-nypd-new-york-city/

[redqueen]

36. Jesus.

Mental health has to become a priority.

[oldsoftie]

39. Definitely. I'll never understand it I guess. And I hope it never hits close to home

[OnDoutside]

27. To be fair, no.

[Iggo]

34. I don't think I'm reading it right.

To me, it reads like he's saying that the international community doesn't care about stressed out American workers as much as it cares about Asian sweatshop workers.

To that, I'd agree.

But I don't think that's supposed to be the point, is it?

[redqueen]

37. I can't say for sure, but to me, it seems like he's just saying

that we need to be more aware of what's going on with people here. All the news of the roaring economy and soaring GDP and jobs jobs jobs is beyond misleading.

[Nitram]

46. I thought he was referring to Americans who are not concerned about working conditions for

Americans.

[UniteFightBack]

49. But it seems like he is also blaming lyft......? nt

[UniteFightBack]

48. I feel like he's blaming Lyft just as he would blame the sweatshops. nt

[UniteFightBack]

47. Financial stress because the rent is too damn high. nt

[soryang]

54. I knew about it.

the gig drivers for uber and lyft drive competition in a downward spiral. it's the independent contractor fiction that shifts all risk and costs to the driver.

https://www.wired.com/story/why-uber-still-call-drivers-contractors/

https://www.wci360.com/ny-ruling-that-uber-drivers-are-employees-could-impact-gig-economy/

there is a somewhat analagous "rent to own" business practice in the trucking industry which in general is not beneficial to professional drivers.

[loyalsister]

57. I don't think it's helpful to make a comparison

Tragedies like those mentioned should be understood independently. I think the grief of the people they leave behind is the most important consideration if such a tragedy becomes a national conversation.