Zero-emission electric buses manufactured in America,

[Uncle Joe]

Link to tweet

[TomCADem]

1. If Trump Can Take Credit for Opening Apple Plant, Bernie Can Take Credit...

...for zero-emission buses I guess.

Instead, I wrote the damn bill, "I built the damn bus"?

[sheshe2]

2. Oh.

Thanks.

[Uncle Joe]

3. Reading is fundamental, Bernie is simply stating that the Green New Deal

will greatly expand and accelerate these dynamics.

[TomCADem]

4. You Do Know The Green New Deal Has Yet to Be Implemented...

...yet Bernie is referring to the manufacturing of zero emission buses in California right now. Bernie should give credit to Jerry Brown or Gavin Newsome. Instead, he claims credit and attributes it to a Green New Deal, which has not been implemented.

Is just like Trump claiming credit for the opening of an Apple plant, that was built during the Obama administration. Bernie is celebrating his Green New Deal by pointing to a zero emissions bus plant in California without giving credit to Democrats in California.

[Uncle Joe]

6. False

Zero-emission electric buses manufactured in America, with good union wages, local hiring, and apprenticeships to bring marginalized communities into the green economy.

Sound radical? It's already happening. This is what a Green New Deal is about. https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2019-11-19/electric-bus-builders-in-l-a-just-joined-a-union-for-oil-workers-with-the-support-of-their-ex-tesla-ceo …

Elementary reading is all it takes to realize Bernie is stating this is happening now as in present tense.

As I stated and Bernie alludes, the Green New Deal will greatly expand and accelerate the development of clean, sustainable new energy.

Everybody and their mama knows the Green New Deal hasn't happened yet.

[TomCADem]

7. Bernie Said, "It's already happening. This is what a Green New Deal is about."

Zero-emission electric buses are being manufactured in California, not due to Bernie's Green New Deal proposal. It has nothing to do with his efforts or proposals. That is what California Democrats are all about. Perhaps Bernie try to support the party, rather than stealing credit from Democrats., rather than coping plays from the Trump playbook of making it all about him.

[Uncle Joe]

8. As I have stated twice and I believe you're intelligent enough to know,

the Green New Deal would greatly expand and accelerate these developments.

Electrical buses are what the Green New Deal is about, but a whole lot more of them than is currently being developed and this is just one piece of the massive package.

(snip)

Reaching 100 percent renewable energy for electricity and transportation by no later than 2030 and complete decarbonization of the economy by 2050 at latest – consistent with the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change goals – by expanding the existing federal Power Marketing Administrations to build new solar, wind, and geothermal energy sources.

Ending unemployment by creating 20 million jobs needed to solve the climate crisis. These jobs will be good paying, union jobs with strong benefits and safety standards in steel and auto manufacturing, construction, energy efficiency retrofitting, coding and server farms, and renewable power plants. We will also create millions of jobs in sustainable agriculture, engineering, a reimagined and expanded Civilian Conservation Corp, and preserving our public lands.

Directly invest an historic $16.3 trillion public investment toward these efforts, in line with the mobilization of resources made during the New Deal and WWII, but with an explicit choice to include black, indigenous and other minority communities who were systematically excluded in the past.

A just transition for workers. This plan will prioritize the fossil fuel workers who have powered our economy for more than a century and who have too often been neglected by corporations and politicians. We will guarantee five years of a worker’s current salary, housing assistance, job training, health care, pension support, and priority job placement for any displaced worker, as well as early retirement support for those who choose it or can no longer work.

Declaring climate change a national emergency. We must take action to ensure a habitable planet for ourselves, for our children, and for our grandchildren. We will do whatever it takes to defeat the threat of climate change.

Saving American families money by weatherizing homes and lowering energy bills, building affordable and high-quality, modern public transportation, providing grants and trade-in programs for families and small businesses to purchase high-efficiency electric vehicles, and rebuilding our inefficient and crumbling infrastructure, including deploying universal, affordable high-speed internet.

Supporting small family farms by investing in ecologically regenerative and sustainable agriculture. This plan will transform our agricultural system to fight climate change, provide sustainable, local foods, and break the corporate stranglehold on farmers and ranchers.

Justice for frontline communities – especially under-resourced groups, communities of color, Native Americans, people with disabilities, children and the elderly – to recover from, and prepare for, the climate impacts, including through a $40 billion Climate Justice Resiliency Fund. And providing those frontline and fenceline communities a just transition including real jobs, resilient infrastructure, economic development.

Commit to reducing emissions throughout the world, including providing $200 billion to the Green Climate Fund, rejoining the Paris Agreement, and reasserting the United States’ leadership in the global fight against climate change.

Meeting and exceeding our fair share of global emissions reductions. The United States has for over a century spewed carbon pollution emissions into the atmosphere in order to gain economic standing in the world. Therefore, we have an outsized obligation to help less industrialized nations meet their targets while improving quality of life. We will reduce domestic emissions by at least 71 percent by 2030 and reduce emissions among less industrialized nations by 36 percent by 2030 — the total equivalent of reducing our domestic emissions by 161 percent.

Making massive investments in research and development. We will invest in public research to drastically reduce the cost of energy storage, electric vehicles, and make our plastic more sustainable through advanced chemistry.

Expanding the climate justice movement. We will do this by coming together in a truly inclusive movement that prioritizes young people, workers, indigenous peoples, communities of color, and other historically marginalized groups to take on the fossil fuel industry and other polluters to push this over the finish line and lead the globe in solving the climate crisis.

Investing in conservation and public lands to heal our soils, forests, and prairie lands. We will reauthorize and expand the Civilian Conservation Corps and fully fund the Land and Water Conservation Corps to provide good paying jobs building green infrastructure.

(snip)

https://berniesanders.com/en/issues/green-new-deal/

[TomCADem]

9. I Think You Understand How Time Works, Correct?

The buses are being built now without Bernie's involvement. It is not what the Green New Deal is about. If Bernie acknowledging the efforts of Californians to build a green economy that is one thing.

As you note, the Green New is being proposed in the future. The buses are being built now. The fact that we are even debating this is amazing, because I would think that concept of time would be something we can agree upon. Right? The buses are actually being built now. Bernie's proposals are just that, proposals to be implemented in the future.

It is also false to assume that if Bernie is not elected that the buses will stop being built. In other words, the buses having nothing to do with Bernie, yet he is trying to take credit and tie it to his catch phrase, "Green New Deal." Why? Because he wrote the damn bill?

[Uncle Joe]

10. I understand perfectly well how time works and so does Bernie, from my post #6 to you.

Zero-emission electric buses manufactured in America, with good union wages, local hiring, and apprenticeships to bring marginalized communities into the green economy.

Sound radical? It's already happening. This is what a Green New Deal is about. https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2019-11-19/electric-bus-builders-in-l-a-just-joined-a-union-for-oil-workers-with-the-support-of-their-ex-tesla-ceo …

Elementary reading is all it takes to realize Bernie is stating this is happening now as in present tense.

The Green New Deal is being proposed for the future but electrical buses are very much what they're about, did you not read my bolded paragraph specifically addressing that issue to which you just replied?

What is it about massive expansion of what is being done now that you don't understand?

No one ever "assumed that if Bernie wasn't elected, electric buses wouldn't be built."

Your argument is disingenuous at best.

[Blue_true]

12. The Green New Deal had nothing to do with that plant Uncle Joe,

that is what the poster is trying to point out to you. Wealthy groups and individuals are already investing in green technology, have been for a while, long before the concept of a Green New Deal.

[Uncle Joe]

13. Not at near the rate we need to Blue true, Bernie was just citing this as example of what

the Green New Deal will champion at a much greater scale.

[Blue_true]

14. Putting more money to something doesn't solve the problem.

The people that built that bus plant have a targeted ROI. If we add money to something without a defined ROI, we could end up wasting money and not achieving our end objective.

What I want to see from proponents of plans like the Green New Deal and MFA is a very detailed plan on how it works at every level. The country took Trump's promises at face value, look where that got us. Bernie is not a liar like Trump, but both Bernie and Warren can be horribly vague on how their big proposals will work on the details level, I find that to be disconcerting.

[Uncle Joe]

15. It certainly helps and that's only a small but important part of the Green New Deal

Reaching 100 percent renewable energy for electricity and transportation by no later than 2030 and complete decarbonization of the economy by 2050 at latest – consistent with the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change goals – by expanding the existing federal Power Marketing Administrations to build new solar, wind, and geothermal energy sources.

Ending unemployment by creating 20 million jobs needed to solve the climate crisis. These jobs will be good paying, union jobs with strong benefits and safety standards in steel and auto manufacturing, construction, energy efficiency retrofitting, coding and server farms, and renewable power plants. We will also create millions of jobs in sustainable agriculture, engineering, a reimagined and expanded Civilian Conservation Corp, and preserving our public lands.

Directly invest an historic $16.3 trillion public investment toward these efforts, in line with the mobilization of resources made during the New Deal and WWII, but with an explicit choice to include black, indigenous and other minority communities who were systematically excluded in the past.

A just transition for workers. This plan will prioritize the fossil fuel workers who have powered our economy for more than a century and who have too often been neglected by corporations and politicians. We will guarantee five years of a worker’s current salary, housing assistance, job training, health care, pension support, and priority job placement for any displaced worker, as well as early retirement support for those who choose it or can no longer work.

Declaring climate change a national emergency. We must take action to ensure a habitable planet for ourselves, for our children, and for our grandchildren. We will do whatever it takes to defeat the threat of climate change.

Saving American families money by weatherizing homes and lowering energy bills, building affordable and high-quality, modern public transportation, providing grants and trade-in programs for families and small businesses to purchase high-efficiency electric vehicles, and rebuilding our inefficient and crumbling infrastructure, including deploying universal, affordable high-speed internet.

Supporting small family farms by investing in ecologically regenerative and sustainable agriculture. This plan will transform our agricultural system to fight climate change, provide sustainable, local foods, and break the corporate stranglehold on farmers and ranchers.

Justice for frontline communities – especially under-resourced groups, communities of color, Native Americans, people with disabilities, children and the elderly – to recover from, and prepare for, the climate impacts, including through a $40 billion Climate Justice Resiliency Fund. And providing those frontline and fenceline communities a just transition including real jobs, resilient infrastructure, economic development.

Commit to reducing emissions throughout the world, including providing $200 billion to the Green Climate Fund, rejoining the Paris Agreement, and reasserting the United States’ leadership in the global fight against climate change.

Meeting and exceeding our fair share of global emissions reductions. The United States has for over a century spewed carbon pollution emissions into the atmosphere in order to gain economic standing in the world. Therefore, we have an outsized obligation to help less industrialized nations meet their targets while improving quality of life. We will reduce domestic emissions by at least 71 percent by 2030 and reduce emissions among less industrialized nations by 36 percent by 2030 — the total equivalent of reducing our domestic emissions by 161 percent.

Making massive investments in research and development. We will invest in public research to drastically reduce the cost of energy storage, electric vehicles, and make our plastic more sustainable through advanced chemistry.

Expanding the climate justice movement. We will do this by coming together in a truly inclusive movement that prioritizes young people, workers, indigenous peoples, communities of color, and other historically marginalized groups to take on the fossil fuel industry and other polluters to push this over the finish line and lead the globe in solving the climate crisis.

Investing in conservation and public lands to heal our soils, forests, and prairie lands. We will reauthorize and expand the Civilian Conservation Corps and fully fund the Land and Water Conservation Corps to provide good paying jobs building green infrastructure.

(snip)

https://berniesanders.com/en/issues/green-new-deal/

The ROI in regards to global warming climate change can't just be measured in dollars, but if you just want to measure that and not the cost of human suffering Earth's GDP is 80.68 trillion dollars, what's the monetary cost of GWCC over the next several decades to the end of 21st century?

Here is one estimate as of last December.

(snip)

Climate change comes with a hefty bill. The United States stands to experience major economic losses over the 21st century as sea levels rise, heat waves become more frequent and rains fall in heavier bursts, according to the recently released National Climate Assessment (NCA). Sources of the costs range from damaged and abandoned coastal properties, to wages lost when it is too hot to work outdoors, to premature deaths caused by increased air pollution and disease exposure.

The report is put together by 13 federal agencies and includes input from hundreds of scientists, including many who work at academic institutions. Released every four years by Congressional mandate (this year’s NCA weighs in at 1,656 pages), it uses projections of climate change based on varying levels of greenhouse gas emissions—and figures in expected population changes—to estimate the toll a changing climate may exact on various sectors of the country’s economy. In the graphic below, Scientific American focuses on the sectors subject to the biggest impacts and compares the projected losses to current economic activity. Even for sectors in which the overall numbers seem relatively small, those involved can be hit hard. For example, losses in freshwater fishing would be felt disproportionately by small communities that depend on fishing-related tourism.

The NCA estimates are not intended to be exact predictions for specific years. Rather, they provide a sense of the scale of damage climate change may cause by the end of the century—and they show the major difference that reducing greenhouse gas emissions and adapting to changes can make in the losses sustained. When it comes to lost hours of labor, for example, reducing emissions could cut the costs in half. And lowered emissions, combined with adaptations such as bolstering protective wetlands and buying out precarious properties, could avoid 90 percent of the costs that could be incurred by coastal areas.

The loss estimates should also be considered conservative because they do not factor in every way climate change might cause damage, according to the Environmental Protection Agency analysis the NCA drew from. For example, the costs of air pollution in this year’s report only included premature deaths linked to increased ozone, leaving out other pollutants.




https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/heres-how-much-climate-change-could-cost-the-u-s/

[sheshe2]

16. Really.

Wealthy groups and individuals are already investing in green technology, have been for a while, long before the concept of a Green New Deal.

Hey, Blue. Are you telling me that some billionaires and millionaires are investing in green technology? Not just talking about it but INVESTING in it. Not just talking the talk but walking the walk.

I stopped at Shaws Market today, they have built two parking spots for electric vehicles with free chargers. Free. Good marketing move, Shaws. Well done. I bet the owners of Shaws are billionaires. They have been serving MA since the late 1800's.

[Blue_true]

19. It took me a while, but I see what you did there.

I am sure that the family that own Shaws, like the woman that own Publix in Florida, are fairly well off.

As a engineer with plenty of high tech development experience, I am very much skeptical of politicians that propose gigantic infusions of money with no detail plan on how that money will be managed. I have seen tens of millions of dollars at a time wasted in private industry, the one common factor was that the effort was poorly planned from the get-go.

[Blue_true]

11. Based upon the look of the facility, this concept was on the drawing board during the

Obama Administration. That facility is too complex to have been planned shorter that five years ago. Take from me, shit like that facility is down my wheelhouse, I know how long that it takes to plan such a facility.

[betsuni]

5. I remember this from August, finding out that The Clinton Global Initiative did a pilot study

in California. Six V2G-enabled buses were deployed and it was found that each bus generated $6,100 in revenues. California already has 150 buses (as of last year) and several other states are starting electric bus programs.

[sheshe2]

18. The Clinton Global Initiative

Awesome!

[myohmy2]

17. "This is what a Green New Deal is about."

...excellent...count me in...

...the Greener the Newer the Deal, the sooner we'll have the jobs and economy of our future...


"...manufactured in America, with good union wages, local hiring, and apprenticeships..."

...what's not to love?

...but there are fossil fuel forces already lining up to resist our Green New Deal, to deprive us of our bright new future...

...we'll do it, but fully implementing the Green New Deal won't be easy

...