Sanders Has a Soft Spot for Latin American Strongmen

[OldRed2450]

If Bernie wins the nomination cable news will have Bernie's support for socialism on loop.

Snip~
A few days after the debate, Sanders appeared on CNN. When Anderson Cooper brought up the exchange in Miami, asking Sanders if Castro’s revolution had indeed benefited the Cuban people, Sanders tried to dismiss the question, pivoting toward the (admittedly immoral and tragic) history of American intervention in the region. When Cooper tried to get a straight answer, Sanders promptly accused him of “redbaiting” and repeated his condemnation-praise routine of the Castro government.

I personally witnessed Sanders’ discomfort and impatience when asked about the failure of the socialist experiment in Latin America when I interviewed him in Los Angeles toward the end of the 2016 primary season. I asked Sanders to explain whether the socialist model has brought Venezuela to the brink of collapse. Exasperated, Sanders dismissed my line of questioning and declined to offer an opinion. “I am running for president of the United States,” he told me, as if the position somehow impeded him from offering a clear evaluation of the Venezuelan crisis. ~


https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/02/bernie-sanders-maduro-castro-latin-america-socialism.html

[TidalWave46]

1. "If Bernie wins the nomination cable news will have Bernie's support for socialism on loop."

He is a socialist. Makes sense he would support socialism across the globe.

Here is what they will connect. It's not the socialism. It's the populist rhetoric combined with repeated attacks on journalism. Never ever ends well. Historically it ends in disaster for the people. These two aspects can be seen among histories worst leaders.

[OldRed2450]

2. Exactly!

The authoritarian history of socialism in Latin America, Bernie's support for it coupled with how he treats the US media... It's a disaster for the GE.

[TidalWave46]

3. Not just a disaster for the GE, of which I agree with you on.

It will be a disaster for the country. To go from one populist candidate who trashes journalism to another..... It would be a nightmare for the American people.

[OldRed2450]

5. Yes. It will further deteriorate democracy as we know it.

[The Valley Below]

13. I could not agree more

[karynnj]

58. There were at least as many right wing authoritarians that some politicians were comfortable with

This was both in central America and South America.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

7. Imagine what "cable news will have... on loop" - using your words - if Joe wins the nomination...

Fortunately, Joe is not going to win... even Obama admits as much, based on his recent comments.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[OldRed2450]

9. What would they have on loop?

Joe Biden is a good man with good intention. He's the most humble politician in decades except for Carter.

[TidalWave46]

11. These little thingies " " were used to denote that I was quoting the op.

What will they have on loop? This?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/12511637124

This?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287326002#post10

I'm on pins and needles here!

[beastie boy]

20. Obama agrees with you? How so?

Frankly, I have difficulty taking your word for it.

[R B Garr]

4. K&R, thanks for pointing this out.

[comradebillyboy]

6. Sanders has a soft spot for Latin American strongmen, and that's

putting it mildly. He also had a soft spot for the old Soviet Union before it went away as well. When Bernie told me he was a socialist I believed him.

[OldRed2450]

10. Yes. Here's a video

Link to tweet

?lang=en

[The Mouth]

22. "When someone tells you who they are

Believe them"
Toni Morrison, author

[redstatebluegirl]

8. Yep, the ads write themselves.

[flamingdem]

12. Bernie is a humanist. Thus, he cares about the poor in Latin America

Unfortunately, historically this means siding with groups that are on the left side of the spectrum - often because they've been forced into taking that position. Oftentimes these groups are the educated middle class. Sometimes they even end up winning and become main stream (see El Salvador). Often the US has been on the wrong side of history in these struggles. (See Cuba, Chile, Guatemala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, etc.).

Bernie knows this is a huge can of worms. Most Americans aren't interested in history or in Latin American.

[The Mouth]

25. Thank you, well said

Sometimes the choice is between *which* authoritarian SOB you support

Compared to a number of assholes the US has supported, Morales is mr fucking rogers.

[The Valley Below]

50. Pure rationalization.

[skh500]

14. Democratic Socialism

Bernie is a "Democratic" Socialist.......NOT a socialist as in communism. He is attempting to pick
up where FDR left off. Just google his FDR talk which he gave several months ago.

Democrats (and most Americans) are already supportive of Democratic Socialism. Libraries, Social Security, Post Office, Police/Fire Service, VA hospitals, unemployment and on and on. The corporate folks like to smear him by leaving off the word "Democratic" and insinuate he is advocating the communist line.

CNN ...and worse MSNBC are sounding like Fox spewing their misinformation and smears. I thought they were suppose to remain neutral and report the news...not try to influence the news.

[OldRed2450]

15. Bernie's own words on video ....

supporting authoritarian regimes is not smears. It's the truth, it's factual. news organizations bring it up is what Bernie doesn't like.

[ritapria]

17. What about America's longstanding alliance with Saudi Arabia ?

SA and NK are the 2 most evil, depraved regimes on Earth ….Is that cool ?

[ritapria]

16. Bernie is doing better in some polls

and on cue Slate puts out he expectable hit job on Bernie …….He's a Commie ,,,He loves strongmen.. Blah, Blah Fox News Babble .. All of the potential nominees are going to be slandered …...

[billpolonsky]

18. The cold war is over.

The communist dog whistle is a fading memory.
it was all a mirage.

You should be more concerned with corporations cozying up to China.

[LongtimeAZDem]

19. "Here, there, the Yankee will die!" Bernie's gonna have a hard time with that, regardless.

[OldRed2450]

23. His attacks on the media is something to be concerned about.

Without a free press there is no democracy. It's not lies and fake news.. It's mostly true what they say about him. His campaign getting upset because it's not always glowing praise is concern of mine on how he will govern.

[ChubbyStar]

28. Holy shit, you jumped the shark, giraffe, and hummingbird with that

Priceless

[beastie boy]

27. So was Putin.

Exercising the power to rig democratic institutions in one's favor is what makes one a strongman.

[ancianita]

24. Let him speak for himself. Let him make a speech about what a social democratic leader does that's

different from a democratic leader.

It's illogical and unfair to interpret Bernie's refusal to let media frame Latin America's problems as his "soft spot" for strong men. You can, but you'd be distorting and undermining him as a Democratic candidate.

I agree that media will put him on loop. And the muddlement of Americans will continue, and he'll lose to a mafia strong man already in the WH.

Who benefits? Extractor corporations and their henchmen in democratic governments.

South America's strong men are not socialist or communist. The socialist experiment only fails where corporate extractors send in mercenaries and propagandists to discredit the people's attempt to control the resources of their own land base.

So those leaders are labeled whatever creates your grandpa's fear of Stalin, while Northern European socialist democracies actually regulate those very corporate insurgents so that their own governments are not taken over for asset theft. They're not even called socialist countries, and yet they are, combined with democratic and socialist controls over corporate behavior.

The Venezuelans' resistance to foreign ownership of their oil is important, so their controlling it for themselves is not bad socialism, any more than it's bad socialism for Americans not to want fracking done in their own national parks.

Americans might not be ready for "Not me, US" socialism. But Bernie isn't a muddler of the socialist message. Americans put themselves into a muddle over good socialism and bad socialism, not knowing the difference. Yet the models of good socialism are everywhere in the West.

We here should know better than to join in any media framed muddlement about Western style "good socialism," or any distrust of Bernie's democratic socialism. That undermines Bernie supporters of the party.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

29. Lol. A whole article about Bernie not taking the Red Bait.

Ok.

[TheFarseer]

30. These are Republican talking points

What’s more, ANY of our candidates will be confronted with moronic ‘you’re moving us toward socialism and it didn’t work in Venezuela or the Soviet Union or wherever else’. I think we should be refuting these talking points and not spreading them.

[ChubbyStar]

31. Yes they are

and we should be refuting them. Thank you.

[LongtimeAZDem]

33. The problem is that they're all true, and well documented

[OldRed2450]

32. These are not talking points.

It's all true. None of our other candidates have praised Castro, The Soviet Union or the like... Bernie has, on tape. These are facts not smears.

[TheFarseer]

34. If you think

Telling the electorate that some Democrats are Communists and love the Soviet Union, but not all of us is a winning message no matter who the nominee is, then go ahead with this line of attack.

[OldRed2450]

36. It's an attack others will make

in the GE making him very vulnerable to losing.

[ChubbyStar]

39. Really?

[LongtimeAZDem]

37. Then put the blame on those who have spent decades praising Communist dictators

[The Valley Below]

35. Last week he was defending Evo Morales.

That dog won't hunt.

[Blue_true]

40. I am surprised at the DU members that are upset that

Morales was told to leave. Most observers reported massive cheating to gain him a fourth term, after a Court he packed gave him a extra constitutional third term. I wonder how those DU people would react if Trump or someone like Trump tried what Morales did, here?

[The Valley Below]

41. And also remember Morales lost a referendum of the people...

who voted against authorizing him to run for that unconstitutional 4th term.

[Blue_true]

42. Some good people here on DU are allowing the wool to be pulled over their eyes because a

would be dictator says things that they like. How is that different from how rightwing people react to rightwing want to be dictators?

[PETRUS]

43. Huh. That's funny, I think you've had the wool pulled over your eyes.

There's some nuance to the situation, but the facts are largely in favor of MAS and against the people who are currently asserting authority.

[Blue_true]

44. Whatever, believe what you want to believe.

Facts show that Morales was doing some extra-constitutional mechanations to retain power. Are the people leading now any better, my guess is no, but I also stand by my statement that Morales himself opened the door for them by trying to unconstitutionally cling to power.

[PETRUS]

45. Likewise, believe what you want to believe.

The things you allude to are why I say it's a situation with some nuance. The full story is much more complicated. In the end, it was/is a coup, and people are facing a shitshow of state violence and religious and racial bigotry.

[Blue_true]

46. So a person ignoring a public referendum vote to gain a fourt term

is somehow democratic? Sorry, that is backwards. The public telling him that they preferred that someone else lead should have been a signal to Morales.

[PETRUS]

47. You're totally ignoring what I'm telling you. nt

[Blue_true]

48. It has been documented by international observers that he ignored

a referendum on a fourth term, ran anyway and cheated, making his win illegitimate. If a rightwing person did that, the same people that are stoutly defending Morales would be bullshit.

[Humanist_Activist]

49. That is in dispute, what isn't in dispute is that the current right wing government...

is apparently doing things that the Morales government has never done, such as arresting the opposition, killing protesters, oppressing indigenous people, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Bolivian_political_crisis#Jeanine_%C3%81%C3%B1ez_presidency

What's funny is that the Áñez administration finally agreed on a bill to call new elections, something Morales already agreed to before he was forced to resign. Why is she in power?

[Blue_true]

54. So you are saying international election monitors, people who risk their lives to try to bring about

fair voting, are lying. How insightful. For what reason would they want to risk their integrity to lie against Morales?

[Humanist_Activist]

55. I said it was disputed, but the point was moot, Morales agreed to having new elections...

that were properly monitored, and the military deposed him anyways.

The new government seems to be rather hostile to the idea of democracy, what with the killings and attempt at carte blanche oppression of protesters. Something that, I will remind you, Morales never did. Actually for a supposed dictator, he sucked at it, you don't have the opposition representing themselves in an authoritarian government normally.

Hopefully the new government will keep the promise of the bill they recently passed and hold new elections where all political parties can participate.

[Blue_true]

56. Morales tried to steal a fourth term in office, he brought the thugs down on himself.

I feel no sorrow for his situation. I do feel sorry for the indigenous people that rushed to that bum's aid and are now being brutalized by the thugs. But the indigenous people and the international Press that stayed instead of chasing the next eye-catching story have forced the thugs to hold a legitimate election, and that all of us should be watching to insure fairness.

[PETRUS]

57. You're still totally missing my point.

Maybe that's my fault for not being specific. When I say the situation has nuance, I mean that there's questionable behavior on all sides. It seems you are only aware of the complaints about Morales, or at least that's all that concerns you. But there's a much bigger story, and the behavior of the coup leaders against Morales is far, far worse. I'll walk you through it. First, the bit you are somewhat familiar with - Morales sought another term, in spite of term limits and it spite of a referendum on the issue that he lost (narrowly). I find this troubling for any number of reasons (you seem to be operating under the impression that it doesn't bother me, which isn't true). That said, the courts cleared him to run, and as squirrely as that may be, it was within the bounds of the Bolivian legal system and at least it leaves the final determination to voters. On election day, the "quick count" (an unofficial nonbinding tally) showed Morales comfortably in the lead, but with less of a margin that is required to avoid a runoff. When the final tally was in, his lead had increased by enough to avoid a runoff. That's when his opponents cried "foul." But the final results are were in line with polling, statistical analysis, and expectations in general. The reason his margin increased after the last quick count total is because the last precincts to report are from rural areas where his support is quite high. In spite of vague complaints about "irregularities," no one has come forward with anything specific, or any evidence to back it up - the only thing the opposition has is the increase in margin, which isn't even a surprising result. By all appearances, the complaints about fraud are without merit. That said, the OAS recommended another round of elections, and Morales said he had no problem doing that. That's when the military "asked" him to resign (and raided his residence, as well as the homes of relatives and supporters). His term in office was not yet over, by the way. The person who was installed in his place has no democratic mandate, nor any legal basis for holding the office - she's there because of a show of force. This is a person who has made extremely racist and bigoted remarks (the indigenous people's religion is "satanic" and they have no place in the capitol). She has also promised immunity to state security forces for actions against the current protestors, and there is a violent and repressive crackdown going on right now. She has also targeted members of MAS, including elected officials, with arrest.

So yes, it's reasonable to direct criticism at Morales for seeking another term. But I can't think of any reason why that would bother someone more than the behavior of his opponents (unless one wasn't aware of the whole story, of if one is so ideologically opposed to Morales that concerns about democracy and human rights aren't an issue). At least Morales was adhering to the law, and giving voters a chance to express their opinion freely. This is not true of the his replacement.

[wiley]

51. Bernie Supporters?

Let's not forget Bernie met with Fidel Castro, in Cuba, when the federal government forbid it. While members of the LGBTQ+ community were being murdered, tortured and abused.

[Blue_true]

53. Not all are Bernie supporters. All do seem to have a soft spot for leftwing leaders, even the bad

ones.

[betsuni]

38. K&R