Tired of the Meme That Harris/Booker Show That "Democrats Have a Problem"

Response to DarthDem (Original post)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:04 PM

BannonsLiver (14,999 posts)

1. The narrative is irrational

Put forth by people trying to out-woke each other on social media and a for profit media hell bent on sewing divisiveness. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to DarthDem (Original post)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:08 PM

The Valley Below (1,701 posts)

2. Check my math (as I have a head cold), but if Biden is our nominee...

I believe it will be the very first opportunity for votes 33 or younger to cast a ballot for a white male Democrat running for president in a general election in their lives. And if he's elected Biden would become only the second Roman Catholic ever elected to the office (JFK being the first). We have a big coalition. We are in good shape. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:11 PM

pnwmom (107,962 posts)

4. Why would that age group, who in the Democratic party are mostly women and minorities,

be thrilled about the "opportunity" to vote for a white male Democrat? Get real. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:16 PM

Mr.Bill (20,915 posts)

5. Who said they would be "thrilled"? n/t

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:43 PM

pnwmom (107,962 posts)

17. Why would it be an "opportunity"? That implies it would be something special to them. nt

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:29 PM

The Valley Below (1,701 posts)

8. Wow. Some response.

Did you actually read my post, or just jumping off here? If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:39 PM

pnwmom (107,962 posts)

13. I read your post, and answered it, but you still haven't answered mine.

Why do you think women and minorities would view it as an "opportunity" to vote for a white male for President? That was the only choice for more than 200 years. Since George Washington, Obama was the first non-white President, and there has still never been a woman. (And as a Catholic, I would be much more enthused about voting for the first woman, than I would for another Catholic.) If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 07:23 PM

Demsrule86 (66,314 posts)

56. Perhaps they don't see that but just a good guy who will make a great president.

I am supporting Biden as is my 26 year old daughter. She actually met Biden. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #56)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 07:28 PM

pnwmom (107,962 posts)

57. One thing about women your daughter's age.

They didn't watch, in real time, as an overly collegial Biden failed to protect Anita Hill in the Clarence Thomas hearings. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #57)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 07:32 PM

MicaelS (8,739 posts)

58. Oh FFS.

It happened 28 years ago. Just how long are people like yourself continue to beat this dead horse? If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to MicaelS (Reply #58)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 07:40 PM

pnwmom (107,962 posts)

59. I haven't seen any indication since then that he's stopped trying to get along

with people who can't be gotten along with. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to MicaelS (Reply #58)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 01:35 AM

kelly1mm (4,468 posts)

72. How old were the allegations against Justice Kavanaugh? For some things there is no

statute of limitations. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to kelly1mm (Reply #72)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:44 AM

InAbLuEsTaTe (23,913 posts)

77. Have to agree with you on that.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!! Either way, they're stronger together!! Welcome to the revolution!!! If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to kelly1mm (Reply #72)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:08 PM

MicaelS (8,739 posts)

118. To compare the two is utter nonsense.

Kavanaugh actually committed sexual abuse. In no way did Biden. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to MicaelS (Reply #58)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:49 PM

treestar (81,492 posts)

113. And when is the bad guy going to be Clarence Thomas?

It's strange that Biden if the biggest baddie in that incident. And then there is the Republican POTUS who nominated Thomas. Yet Biden is the bad guy. Good grief. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to treestar (Reply #113)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:57 PM

MicaelS (8,739 posts)

115. Some people hold a grudge until it dies.

Then they have it stuffed and mounted. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #56)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 10:19 AM

Alliepoo (1,964 posts)

97. As is my daughter and her friends (who are mid 30's)

They were thrilled when Biden threw his hat in the ring. They recognize a good, decent man in Joe Biden and they are happy to vote for him. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Alliepoo (Reply #97)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 11:38 AM

Demsrule86 (66,314 posts)

98. My two older daughters (I have three) support Biden. The younger daughter my baby...in

college supported Elizabeth Warren until recently but now has switched to Biden...she is Gay and worries what will happen if Trump is reelected. I think we would have to send her to relatives in Ireland. I fear for LGBTQ should that monster win reelection...Heller was decided by one vote...anyone who thinks LGBTQ could not be re-criminalized is not paying attention to the right wing monsters among us...and not just Trump either but Republicans who have become a party my Dad would not recognize...He was GOP until Clinton. He thought Clinton was treated like shit and became a Democrat or so my Mom told me. My son is a Warren supporter and should she not make it, he will vote for the nominee. He just wants Trump gone. He is union and doesn't like M4A....but likes her. All of the kids the will vote (unusual for their age group) and my son's new wife now votes...first time in 16 although she was old enough in 12...her family is not political. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #98)

Wed Dec 11, 2019, 11:34 AM

Alliepoo (1,964 posts)

120. It seems to me that Biden is more popular

Among that cohort than some polls would indicate. Just from my personal knowledge. But we’re just normal everyday folks and I’m guessing that there are more everyday folks out there just like us. I have some relatives that are Gay and many Gay friends. I also worry about them and support them in every way I can. Something good has to happen in this country very soon. I remember something Jerry Springer said ( I know! But he’s a good democrat and he was very supportive of our union during a strike- CWA 4310 4320) that the arc of justice is long but we will get there. I think about his words often and find some solace in them. I’d be really happy if the arc of justice whacked the gop right up side their heads about now! If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 01:58 AM

radius777 (3,446 posts)

73. Exactly, it's not just that Biden or the top candidates are white,

but fairly boring with no real connection to PoC. Beto was charismatic white guy known for fighting for brown people, but (suprise surprise) also failed to gain traction just like the black/brown candidates themselves. The fact that small white states IA/NH go first sets the narrative and media coverage that just selects for a boring field that plays to the needs of heartland whites, just like our Electoral College system, the Senate etc - revolves around them when in fact the Dem base is diverse and metropolitan, where most people in America live, and Hillary won 3m more votes than the Orange Clown. Note that Hillary is white but is an iconic figure of women's rights that PoC (especially black women) felt a social justice connection with. Obama won IA but he was a once in a generation talent who had no Iraq War vote do defend, and there was/is always Hillary hatred/sexism play, especially in the heartland. And that was time before Tea Party/Birtherism/Trumpism. Obama would never win now, would likely be at the bottom along with the other candidates of color. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to DarthDem (Original post)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:08 PM

R B Garr (16,648 posts)

3. I agree. Both candidates you mentioned made mistakes

or miscalculations about race that backfired on them it seems. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to R B Garr (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:40 PM

mcar (41,065 posts)

14. Of course, no other candidate has made mistakes

Right? If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to mcar (Reply #14)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:44 PM

R B Garr (16,648 posts)

18. Yes, they all make mistakes. I guess miscalculation

is a better word for it. It looks like she miscalculated the mood of the electorate at this time regarding race and about Obama’s VP. It’s looking like voters may have been wanting more unity at this time. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to DarthDem (Original post)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:16 PM

JonLP24 (29,322 posts)

6. I thought Booker did well in the last debate

There are only a couple issues that prevent me from supporting him but I think he would be sincere in reforming our criminal justice system. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #6)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:28 PM

stopdiggin (8,647 posts)

7. both very intelligent people

many strong qualities .. but so far haven't run great campaigns (as can be said for others in the field) I truly think it goes to the electability thing (even though I know it makes people cringe). And I'll go on and say -- in other years, other cycles -- I don't think Biden is nearly as strong. (maybe not even a real factor) People are just SO desperate to get Trump out .... If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #6)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:33 PM

The Valley Below (1,701 posts)

9. Not me. He was my very strong #2 at the start of the season...

so I'm strongly biased in his favor. But when he runs on the politics of love in one moment and then desperately attacks with I thought you were high in the next, it does not compute with this former supporter. Looks phony. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #9)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:42 PM

JonLP24 (29,322 posts)

16. It was a very mild attack

Booker supports legalization as part of his criminal justice reforms. He was drawing a contrast between him and Biden. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #16)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:59 PM

The Valley Below (1,701 posts)

20. It was very contrived and IMS not a response to the question Booker was asked.

So it looked like a "zinger" gone bad to me. And a zinger that clashed supremely with the politics of love. One really can't have it both ways. Booker drew a contrast, but he came out the big loser by doing so in my estimation. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #20)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:01 PM

JonLP24 (29,322 posts)

21. To me I care about policies

And Booker showed he had the better policy and also the Cory Booker that led people to speculate he could be President came through in that debate. That Cory Booker was missing for most of the campaign. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #21)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:05 PM

The Valley Below (1,701 posts)

22. I don't agree. I think Biden has the more enlightened position on the issue and that regardless...

that Booker made himself look bad. There are ways to have reasoned differences of opinions and to respectfully outline those differences. But Booker didn't do that. Instead he went for the zinger. It was a cheap shot that made him look bad IMO. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #22)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:11 PM

JonLP24 (29,322 posts)

23. Gateway Drug is a myth

And Booker was right that Cannabis prohibition disproportionately harm people of color. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #23)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:17 PM

The Valley Below (1,701 posts)

25. Not according to the National Institutes for Health.

One of many serious issues with marijuana use, especially among teens. Biden is on the money. We need to find solutions that address unfair criminalization without sacrificing a generation to the ill effects of marijuana on their young minds. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #25)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:25 PM

JonLP24 (29,322 posts)

29. Here is a solution

Don't sell to teens and adults don't give your product to teens. An adult can buy a teen alcohol. With alcohol you have far more severe side effects & deaths not to mention a heavier style of drinking is associated with homicide offenders than the general public but you don't see anyone calling for the banning of alcohol. Im trying hard to get cannabis treated the same as alcohol. Hopefully it comes up as a ballot measure in Arizona (which btw legalization received more votes than Hillary Clinton in Arizona & Nevada). I would have preferred Kamala Harris because at least I know she would try to legalize cannabis. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #29)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:33 PM

The Valley Below (1,701 posts)

31. That approach is NOT working here in CA.

The legalization scheme is a disaster. Any high schooler can summon a delivery service via Weedmaps and have a vape pen delivered in minutes. Marijuana consumption is taking a huge toll on students here. It is a public health crisis that is being ignored to our peril. Those who speak the truth are being shouted down with cries of "reefer madness." The truth is that we've got a huge problem. Educators are throwing up red flags. Few are listening. We've screw up royally. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #31)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:42 PM

JonLP24 (29,322 posts)

36. Not all prohibition supporters are speaking the truth

You may be right about your local situation so I'm not going to say you're spouting reefer madness. Keep in mind a lot of Republicans are against legalization & Sheldon Anderson poured a lot of $$ in my state to defeat the proposal. I may move to one of the West Coast states Washington, Oregon, or California if my state doesn't get its stuff together. Cannabis of any amount is a felony in Arizona and it was easier to get than alcohol as a teen because for alcohol you needed to find an adult to run down to the store for you. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #36)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:45 PM

BannonsLiver (14,999 posts)

38. That poster is to the right of Ronald Reagan on marijuana policy

Anecdotal local PTA gossip is all they have to refute any arguments. It's kind of pitiful, really. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #36)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:50 PM

The Valley Below (1,701 posts)

41. We need a sane path. Criminalizing marijuana (making possession a felony) is insane.

However, it is also an insane situation that any teen with a cell phone can have a vape pen delivered in minutes via an on-line app, no questions asked. That is the prevailing situation here in very liberal Los Angeles. And educators--caring decent people who devote themselves to bettering the lives of students--are saying that they have never seen anything like what's happening in the schools now. Lives and futures are being messed up. That's the truth. Vape pens have changed everything. Kid are taking puffs between classes. And the results are predictable and catastrophic. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #41)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:53 PM

JonLP24 (29,322 posts)

43. I agree no legal dispensary should sell to anyone under 18

I would actually the draw the line at 21 because I want cannabis treated the same as alcohol. Nothing more, nothing less. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #43)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 07:07 PM

The Valley Below (1,701 posts)

49. Since "legalization" here in CA a lion's share of the business is made up of criminal enterprises...

that do not collect taxes and that sometimes do--and sometimes do not--conform to the laws about selling to minors. Believe me when I tell you that high schooler know which delivery services will have a vape pen at their meeting spot in minutes, no questions asked. Cash transactions. And they know which "illegal dispensaries" will sell to them as well. And also believe me when I tell you that educators are deeply (deeply) concerned about what's happening. The amount of consumption during school hours has sky-rocked according to the teachers and counsellors I know. And also trust me that I want to one in prison for possession. That's insane. But we have a problem with law enforcement. If we decide not to prosecute marijuana laws entirely, then criminal enterprises (that are out in the open) will (and do) sell to teens. And teen use is very negative for the brains and life-prospects of young people. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #49)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 07:14 PM

JonLP24 (29,322 posts)

54. One reason why I want legalization to happen

is to take the profits out of drug trafficking organizations where the underworld is very dangerous. I believe it is much safer to purchase from a dispensary. I think California should strengthen regulations if they have that kind of problem. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #54)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 08:32 PM

The Valley Below (1,701 posts)

62. I'm telling you Jon, that the illegal trade here dwarfs the legal trade.

And for most consumers there is no way to tell if a dispensary or delivery service is legal or illegal. They look the same. Both show up on apps like Weedmaps looking indistinguishable. The legal industry is actually screaming bloody murder, as their prices are being undercut by illegal businesses that don't pay the State taxes and fees. Some of these illegal dispensaries and delivery services screen out minors, but some do not. The word spreads about who will sell THC products to teens. We have strict regulations here. What we don't have is law enforcement. As we have (rightly) turned away from the idea of sending people to jail or prison for possession or low-level drug offenses, we have also stopped enforcing laws about sales to minors. So what do we do? We have a conundrum. Do be aware that the problem with teen consumption here is a major problem. Not widely reported, as of yet. But it is real never-the-less and we need to figure out some sane solutions, and soon. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #31)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:57 AM

emmaverybo (8,143 posts)

79. +10000

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #31)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:19 AM

crazytown (7,277 posts)

81. "Marijuana consumption is taking a huge toll on students here".

It is a public health crisis that is being ignored to our peril. Evidence, links, anything? Teens are using less marijuana, than previously, after legalization. Facts, not anecdotes. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.medicalmarijuanainc.com/news/california-teens-marijuana/amp/ https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2019-02-14/teen-pot-use-fell-in-states-that-legalized-medical-marijuana-study If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to crazytown (Reply #81)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:43 AM

The Valley Below (1,701 posts)

83. Sorry, but your story is way out of date.

It is talking about 1999 through 2015, when "medical marijuana" was legalized in many states. Things here in CA have changed radically since recreational use was legalized. The old medical marijuana scheme worked, by and large. Adults who wanted legal THC products had no difficulty getting a prescription from a pot doctor, no one went to jail for possession, and the industry was pretty well-regulated. Sales to minors was nill. Not any more. It has become a wild west show here in CA and teen use is exploding. Your 5-10 year old data is tragically behind the times. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #83)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 04:06 AM

crazytown (7,277 posts)

87. Not so. Includes 2017.

The 16th Biennial State California Healthy Kids Survey. Austin, G., Polik, J., Hanson, T., & Zheng, C. (2018). School climate, substance use, and student well-being in California, 2015-17. Results of the Sixteenth Biennial Statewide Student Survey, Grades 7, 9, and 11. San Francisco: WestEd. https://data.calschls.org/resources/Biennial_State_1517.pdf Comparing 2017 to previous survey (2015). 7th graders the rate of marijuana use dropped by 47 percent 9th graders the rate of marijuana use dropped by 25 percent 11th graders the rate of marijuana use dropped by 15 percent The percentage of teens reported using marijuana products multiple times or repeatedly within the past 30 days also declined across all age groups. That's 2017 - you've go any more recent data? If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to crazytown (Reply #87)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 04:25 AM

The Valley Below (1,701 posts)

89. 2017 was still prior to legalized sales here in CA.

You are citing old studies that don't match the current situation. The data is invalid. I'm living in the real world and listening to people on the front-lines of this crisis who work in the schools and who are seeing the devastation that's taking place among their students. The numbers will come. Meanwhile we will be many years deep into what is now an obvious crisis. Marijuana use by teens is way up. Use during school hours is causing huge problems. We are unwise to ignore reality. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #89)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 04:56 AM

crazytown (7,277 posts)

91. From what you are saying, it is a much the method of delivery, vaping pens,

as the formal legal status - It remains illegal to supply THC to minors. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to crazytown (Reply #91)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:14 PM

The Valley Below (1,701 posts)

108. Both.

It is illegal to supply THC to minors, but since "recreational legalization" here in CA it seems like all law enforcement around marijuana has ceased entirely. As I've mentioned previously, the illegal/unregulated/criminal side of the "industry" now dwarfs the regulated dispensary business. And many of these illegal enterprises--ones that operate openly--will deliver or otherwise sell to minors. So easy access is one side of the current epidemic of teen use we are seeing here. The other side is that vaping, unlike burning cannabis buds, is very discreet. So many students are now using on campus. Often daily. The negative consequences flowing from that surge in students being stoned at school are precisely what one would expect from adolescents going to classes while high on THC. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #23)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:46 PM

stonecutter357 (12,516 posts)

40. Gateway Drug is a myth , do you have a link for that nonsense?

cannabis was a gateway drug for me..... If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to stonecutter357 (Reply #40)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:51 PM

JonLP24 (29,322 posts)

42. I can show a lot of links

Once and for All, Marijuana Is Not a Gateway Drug According to many studies, weed seems more like a filter that keep people away from stronger drugs than a stepping stone into life-destroying addiction. As the 2016 election approaches, marijuana legalization is in the air once again, with ballot initiatives likely to succeed in at least five states, including California. As usual, politicians—including some presidential candidates, notably Carly Fiorina—are trying to turn back the tide by spreading fear that weed is a gateway to more dangerous drugs. But research increasingly shows not only that the "gateway" theory is incorrect, but that weed may actually help people with addictions stop taking other drugs, rather than start. On the surface, the gateway idea seems reasonable enough. After all, there are almost no heroin users who didn't start their illegal drug use with marijuana, and marijuana smokers are 104 times more likely to use cocaine than those haven't tried weed. Yet as scientists constantly remind us, correlation isn't the same thing as causation. For example, the number of people killed annually by dogs correlates almost perfectly with the growth in online revenue on Black Friday. And the rise in autism diagnoses is strongly correlated with the growth in sales of organic food. It's technically possible that some third factor causes both of these apparently haphazard connections. However, it's completely implausible that these connections are causal, and odds are that the links are due to random chance. In terms of marijuana's specific correlation with other drug use, slightly less than half of Americans over 12 have tried marijuana, while less than 15 percent have taken cocaine and less than 2 percent used heroin, according to the latest National Household Survey on Drug Use and Health. Even smaller portions go on to become addicted to those drugs: Typically, only 10 to 20 percent of those who try alcohol and other drugs get hooked. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9bgn7a/why-marijuana-is-not-a-gateway-drug-1013 I can post 20 links but it doesn't matter for drug warriors. Gateway drug is the argument Chris Christie was making in the Republican Primary. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #23)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:56 PM

emmaverybo (8,143 posts)

44. Since he was right, he could have afforded to forego the cheap and immature laugh line.

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #44)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:59 PM

JonLP24 (29,322 posts)

46. I see your point

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #44)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 07:10 PM

The Valley Below (1,701 posts)

51. Booker was actually wrong, which makes the cheap and immature laugh line...

that much worse. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #51)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 08:42 PM

emmaverybo (8,143 posts)

64. Needs more study. For youth, under 18, marijuana use can have real consequences. Anecdotally,

some say it was gateway for them. I think some caution is called for and much more research needed before Fed legalizing, but decriminalization for personal use called for. Do know pot is a great deal stronger than it was when it first became popular with youth. Do not think transport and med and many other occupations in which an altered state could impair job function will stop requiring testing whatever the federal level outcome. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to emmaverybo (Reply #64)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 10:10 PM

The Valley Below (1,701 posts)

69. We have similar positions. I'd say the biggest difference today isn't "strength"

when it comes to teen usage, but in the delivery system. Vaping has made it very easy for students to discretely take a puff on campus. It is happening at unprecedented levels and that's taking a toll on learning, undermining academic success, and harming long-term life prospects. Unfortunately. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #69)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:22 AM

emmaverybo (8,143 posts)

82. Yes. It's not just that I agree , but that you are right. Brains still developing are very much

affected—short term memory loss, apathy, these show up in youth particularly, whereas people more used to the effects, already trained and habituated to job demands, with impulse control established, can get by. We do have enough studies to show negative affect of continuous and long term pot use on developing minds. But adults can also suffer a number of side effects. And often they add other drugs, alcohol, prescription drugs, to the mix which can result in making some drug effects more potent or blocking needed effects. Driving with a number of drugs on board is also a social problem we need to consider. Only after enough study can we come to sensible drug policies that need not be unduly draconian but also can protect more vulnerable populations, while establishing needed restrictions in operating machinery, establishing drug warnings and contraindications, protecting the public while respecting individual rights. We should not be as nonchalant in our policies as we were once, on the other hand, so quick to adopt Needlessly punitive and stigmatizing laws. We need more information. That is straight forward and what we would demand for any substance in wide use with some mind-altering properties. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #22)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:28 PM

Autumn (42,867 posts)

30. Biden has a more enlightened position on Marijuana???

In what universe? If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Reply #30)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:34 PM

The Valley Below (1,701 posts)

32. This universe.

Biden is ahead of the curve. Miles ahead. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #32)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:38 PM

Autumn (42,867 posts)

35. Wrong. nt

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Reply #35)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:43 PM

The Valley Below (1,701 posts)

37. Actually, I'm not.

Look at the science. Look at the effects on young brains. Look at the lowered life opportunities, impaired learning, and diminished academic performance. This is not a benign drug. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #37)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 07:16 PM

Autumn (42,867 posts)

55. Here's the science. I no longer take opioids for pain, I am healthier, happier and more active.

My mind is clearer and I feel emotionally well. Had I not discovered marijuana at the age of 64 I would be dead. Having been in a chemical fog for 10 years and by luck accidentally ingesting an edible that changed my life they can shove their anti marijuana bullshit science up their asses. This is a healing plant that makes a difference in people's lives. Now since there seem to be so many republican talking points going around I will borrow one. They can pry my medical marijuana from my cold dead hands. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Reply #55)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 08:17 PM

The Valley Below (1,701 posts)

60. i'm glad you found something that works for your pain. Sincerely.

But never insult me by trying to to paint my position as having anything to do with Republican talking points. That's seriously not cool. Marijuana has very bad effects on developing minds. We need more research. Not all the "differences" that pot has on people's lives are positive ones. Cutting IQ by 6 points, interfering with cognitive functioning and short-term memory, and undermining success in school and life are strongly associated with marijuana consumption, especially among adolescents. I have no interest in taking away anyones medical marijuana. We had a reasonable situation here in CA when "medical marijuana" was legal. Anyone who wanted one could get a prescription. No one went to jail for possession. The dispensaries were pretty well regulated (in the main). Not perfect, but tenable. A reasonable compromise. Since the legalization of "recreational marijuana" we've had a very bad situation on our hands. Illegal businesses dwarf legal dispensaries and vape pens are being sold to minors, who are using in the schools at unprecedented rates and with terrible consequences. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #60)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 08:29 PM

Autumn (42,867 posts)

61. Don't insult me by telling me that marijuana is a gateway drug. Go to any legal medical

marijuana shop and many recreational shops and what you are mainly going to see is people over 60. People who are living vibrant healthier lives because they are able to get off deadly chemicals and control their illnesses with a plant that has no side effects like suicidal tendencies and other god awful problems. My bud tender knows as much about my health as my doctor does. And he spends more time discussing different strains and their effects on my body and my RA than my Dr does on pharmaceuticals. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Reply #61)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 08:35 PM

The Valley Below (1,701 posts)

63. No one is denying your access to medical marijuana.

Not me. Please never insult me again in the fashion you did earlier. OK? Seriously uncool and uncalled for. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Autumn (Reply #61)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 09:00 PM

BannonsLiver (14,999 posts)

66. Alcohol is the ultimate gateway drug

That and whatever can be found in the medicine cabinet in just about every home in America. But to the Reefer Madness crowd it’s the devil’s lettuce that is the problem. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #66)

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Response to Post removed (Reply #65)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 10:10 PM

The Valley Below (1,701 posts)

70. False. Bye now.

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Autumn (Reply #55)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:59 PM

marble falls (49,180 posts)

119. I so agree. No opiates for me, either. A couple of tooks works better for me and doesn't ...

interfere with living. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Autumn (Reply #30)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:45 AM

InAbLuEsTaTe (23,913 posts)

78. Seriously!! Joe is COMPLETELY out of touch when it comes to his policies on marijuana.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!! Either way, they're stronger together!! Welcome to the revolution!!! If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #78)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:08 AM

The Valley Below (1,701 posts)

80. Quite to the contrary. His caution is prescient.

Those who falsely claim that marijuana is entirely benign--especially when it comes to young people with minds that are not fully formed--are wrong and they will have a lot to answer for in the not-to-distant future. Biden is way ahead of the curve. History will validate his approach. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #80)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 01:07 PM

WA-03 Democrat (2,869 posts)

102. Are we really just trying to prove a negative?

I live and smoke daily in WA. There are no delivery services and the regulations keep minors out of dispensers keep minors out. My favorite shop got closed for a month the store when they accepted a false ID. What Biden wants is more research. As a schedule 1 drug not research can occur. Biden would change it to a federal schedule 2 or 3 for research. He has said no change on the states rights on the issue. I see this as progress. Let’s confirm our assumptions about safety. Testing by scientists sounds responsible. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to WA-03 Democrat (Reply #102)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:53 PM

The Valley Below (1,701 posts)

114. Trust me, illegal delivery services here in CA that operate openly and that appear on Weedmaps...

are selling THC products to teenagers for cash. No joke. Everyone knows what's going on here. The lion's share of the business (estimates are 3:1) is in illegal dispensaries and delivery services here in CA. And many criminal enterprises have no issues selling to kids. That's the truth of the matter. Further study is well-warranted and Biden is on the right path with both rescheduling and calls for research. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to The Valley Below (Reply #114)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:58 PM

WA-03 Democrat (2,869 posts)

116. No argument about CA

I lived in CA. You are right. The Deliveries should check your DL but there is no one watching them. Its all cash transactions by law. Hard to trace. In WA (the area I live in) it is flavored vapes (no thc) that the kids are using. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to DarthDem (Original post)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:34 PM

tritsofme (15,937 posts)

10. This idea that certain candidates are entitled to success is puzzling.

In a field of more than a dozen candidates, all but one will fail, and most will do poorly. This should not be surprising. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to tritsofme (Reply #10)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:35 PM

The Valley Below (1,701 posts)

11. Oh stop making sense!

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to DarthDem (Original post)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:37 PM

Kahuna7 (2,531 posts)

12. Maybe they should pay more attention to the dignified campaign

President Obama ran. Obama never dealt the race card, even when it was used against him. As a senior, black, female voter, I don't believe Harris' problem is due to gender or race. I believe she doomed her campaign when she dealt that race card. Nobody wants to see a year of that nonsense. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Kahuna7 (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:45 PM

R B Garr (16,648 posts)

19. +++, thank you! Well said.

It appears to have been a huge miscalculation on her part. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Kahuna7 (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:21 PM

DarthDem (5,161 posts)

26. Agreed

I agree with this. I thought her early focus on race - and weirdly deciding to attack Biden of all people about it - was misplaced. She would have been better served directing some of that vitriol at Republicans. Aiming it at a fellow Democrat and Obama's vice president just came off as desperate. I'm not sure of the causal connection but her campaign certainly was all downhill after that. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Kahuna7 (Reply #12)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 05:19 AM

Garrett78 (10,721 posts)

93. "Race card?" Seriously? There's no such thing.

As Tim Wise said, if race is a card, it's the 2 of diamonds. When people on DU are using the term "race card," that's quite sad. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #93)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 07:16 AM

Kahuna7 (2,531 posts)

95. That's your opinion and you can keep it. And..

When a person prefaces an attack with...'I don't believe you're racist....BUT! Uh yeah, that's a race card. I don't really care what Tim Wise has to say about that or anything else. I think for myself. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Kahuna7 (Reply #95)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 01:14 PM

Garrett78 (10,721 posts)

103. If parroting a bogus Republican talking point is your idea of thinking for yourself...

...I don't know what to say. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #103)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 01:19 PM

Kahuna7 (2,531 posts)

104. Strawman argument. Ask Tim Wise what to say and get back to me...

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it a republican talking point. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Kahuna7 (Reply #104)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 01:21 PM

Garrett78 (10,721 posts)

105. He said to tell you that you're on the wrong site. This isn't Republican Underground.

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #105)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 01:24 PM

Kahuna7 (2,531 posts)

106. I have been a DU member for over 15 years and a registered Democrat for 47 years.

I'm quite sure I've been a Democrat longer than tim (if he is one). If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to DarthDem (Original post)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 05:41 PM

ismnotwasm (41,128 posts)

15. It's not just Democrats

It illustrates that there IS A RACE PROBLEM AMERICA You know what I’m tired of? People who say race isn’t a factor. Race is always a factor. Is it the only factor? Of course not. But denying it completely isn’t helpful If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #15)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:14 PM

squirecam (2,706 posts)

24. please

Let me know how the white men running in Iowa did in 08...... Harris lost on her merit. Not due to racism or sexism. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to squirecam (Reply #24)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:21 PM

DarthDem (5,161 posts)

27. Agreed Fully

n/t If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to squirecam (Reply #24)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:46 PM

ismnotwasm (41,128 posts)

39. Race is always a factor

No, It’s not the only factor. It. Is always. A factor. It’s how we got Trump. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #39)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 07:10 PM

Kahuna7 (2,531 posts)

52. Russian active measures that used race to divide the party...

is how we got trump. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Kahuna7 (Reply #52)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 09:57 PM

maximusveritas (2,915 posts)

68. Exactly. Would not be surprised if they are behind this new talking point also.

They know race is the easiest way to divide people. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to maximusveritas (Reply #68)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:56 AM

Kahuna7 (2,531 posts)

85. We didn't learn from 2016. To hear Cory Booker one minute infer that

Biden is an out of touch racist. The next minute acknowledge how we were divided in 2016. Then revert back to, Joe Biden being an out of touch racist because he opposes legal pot. Before that, what Harris did when she dealt that race card is inexcusable. Following that, her twitter KHive were calling Biden a racist. We didn't learn. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Kahuna7 (Reply #52)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:19 AM

StevieM (10,452 posts)

75. James Comey did more damage than Vladimir Putin.

The FBI's behavior in that election was insane. And totally illegitimate. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to StevieM (Reply #75)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:50 AM

Kahuna7 (2,531 posts)

84. Comey did damage to be sure. However, I doubt he is responsible

for the russian interference that caused a steep decline in black voter turnout. Campaigns on the left and right used BLM to both suppress AA turnout and motivate white turnout. You can google that. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Kahuna7 (Reply #84)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 12:02 PM

StevieM (10,452 posts)

99. I didn't say he is responsible for the Russian interference.

I said that his actions caused much more damage than the Russian interference did. I think it is worth remembering that HRC's turnout among AA voters was about the same as John Kerry's, maybe a little bit higher than Kerry in states that have not instituted voter suppression laws since 2004. But because HRC had a strong campaign it is possible that she could have exceeded those levels by a wider margin had it not been for Vladimir Putin's lies. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to StevieM (Reply #99)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 12:34 PM

Kahuna7 (2,531 posts)

100. If the 13%, or any part of that percent of black males who fell for the "super predators" smear..

Last edited Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:54 PM - Edit history (1) and voted for trump instead of Hillary, she would have won. I doubt Comey made that much difference to AA voters. Yes Comey cost her valuable votes, but black males could have easily made up the 77k votes she lost to jill stein and trump. Easily. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Kahuna7 (Reply #100)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:36 PM

StevieM (10,452 posts)

110. I agree that Comey's effect wasn't in suppresing the black vote.

He affected swing voters that went from Clinton to Trump based on his smears of HRC. And I think there were a lot of them, contrary to what the media would have us believe. Good point about the Super Predator lie. It is amazing that nobody seems to realize that this was never a thing back in the 1990s. There was never a point when this became an issue, or a criticism of her, back when she actually said it. Because there was no substance to the attack. It could only work as an argument years later when take out of context and twisted around beyond recognition. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #39)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 10:12 PM

squirecam (2,706 posts)

71. Still waiting

For you to tell me how the multiple white men running did in Iowa in 2008..... If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #39)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 04:21 AM

Sapient Donkey (1,568 posts)

88. Even though Harris wasn't my preferred candidate, I spent a fair amount of time/effort

arguing with people online (mostly twitter) who were going after her with what I viewed as ridiculous arguments and premises. Bad illogical arguments/attacks from people bothers me. Particularly when I don't think they are being made in good faith. Anyway, a lot of the people I faced off against were African Americans. Of course not all of her critics were African American, and I am sure some could have even been trolls (and perhaps even bots, but I can usually avoid the bots), but a lot of them were and still are out there saying the same stuff. Either way, a lot of her detractors with both fair and unfair criticism were African American from what I've seen. I also think the polls support this impression if I recall correctly. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #15)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:57 PM

awesomerwb1 (4,148 posts)

45. What do the polls say

about black, Hispanic support for Harris? Very low. Not about race. That they like Biden and others better than her is more about her campaign. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #15)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 07:02 PM

loyalsister (13,390 posts)

47. I would say specifically that it's white supremacy

A belief the there is inherent superiority that comes with whiteness is more consequential and pervasive than Trump, the KKK, and the kinds of hate people tend to associate with the term. It is the state of the US, and it is embedded in the willingness of Democrats to accept opinions and histories that should not be considered acceptable to people who believe racism is a problematic disposition. Harris was in a very tough spot. Her association with the criminal justice system runs counter to a truly anti-racist position. I have friends who are black who refuse to ever support a person who made a living or gained success in a system that has shamelessly exploited people who they care about. It's a boundery they drew and it so happens that there are many people of color who would have liked to support her see a problem. If she is going to have difficulty building support from a key demographic her chances of winning the general election decrease. Obama was running before much of this was beginning to be understood. The New Jim Crow was published in 2013. The movie Thirteenth was released in Oct. of 2016. I don't know if there is evidence that it contributed, but my speculation is that it is possible that it may have been a factor in the lower voter turnout. Currently, I think we have a situation where Black voters are not going to make that mistake again and they are also well aware of the fact that fewer white supremacists are persuadable. This is indeed a Democratic party problem and we should have the guts to about it. One quote about Clarence Thomas that I heard recently in reference to a high tech lynching was that the fact that he was black was actually "the only thing they liked about him." Obviously, it hasn't stopped him from supporting white supremacy at every opportunity. So, we are stuck hoping to get a candidate who will least offend people who are willing to accept an unabashed white supremacist voter. It's a very real issue and I think we should talk about it honestly and I also know it means getting through a backlash of white fragility. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to DarthDem (Original post)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:24 PM

Dem4Life1102 (3,974 posts)

28. I think Harris sunk herself when

she went after Biden over busing. It seemed cold hearted and way too calculated. It's a 40 year old issue that no one cares about anymore. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #28)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:37 PM

FreeState (10,344 posts)

33. I think that was part of it

Edit - wow topic switch in my typing... I think she also did a poor job selling herself in her home state and in the initial debates. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #28)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 06:38 PM

OhZone (3,205 posts)

34. Exactly -

Especially when it turned out she had pretty much the same view as Biden. Cold hearted and calculating aint the Dem way. We can be warm hearted and calculating. ha. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to OhZone (Reply #34)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 07:08 PM

Kahuna7 (2,531 posts)

50. We're Dems. Playing the race card with our own is the fastest way to..

run a losing campaign. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Dem4Life1102 (Reply #28)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 05:20 AM

Garrett78 (10,721 posts)

94. She actually got a boost after that. And it's because people *do* care about it.

Biden is out of touch. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #94)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 10:18 AM

Dem4Life1102 (3,974 posts)

96. She got an initial boost because

she got higher news coverage and name recognition but that faded quickly. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #94)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 01:42 PM

emmaverybo (8,143 posts)

107. Apparently at this time he's more in touch with a larger number of voters than the other

candidates. But three years ago, Biden was MVP in what many consider the best presidential administration in our lifetimes, because it was Obama’s administration. Was that administration out of touch? Biden is very much in touch with the majority of our party. He is in touch with our base, AA voters, obviously more so than Sanders, Warren, or Buttigieg. Sure, our party majority, our base could embrace progressive candidates and their agenda in greater numbers or go with Buttigieg. Or a second or third tier candidate could soar and overtake Biden’s lead. Even so, Biden will remain an influential voice in our party, the candidate world leaders wanted to run as of a year ago, and the only candidate as in touch as he is with that big world outside America most progressives seem to ignore. Maybe you missed his op-Ed on Central America, an analysis of the failed U.S. government policies that have contributed to the humanitarian crisis at our borders. And you missed his foreign policy speech which reflected his grasp of major geopolitical issues in today’s world his rivals are not even conversant about, much less experienced in handling. His unifying message and framing of the fight for the 2020 election as a “struggle for the soul of America” has resonated strongly enough to put him in a lead he has maintained for nearly a year. In fact, other candidates have since echoed his unity theme though that too was at first considered a gesture of retrograde appeasement. He’s been way out front in identifying what’s at stake in 2020–our democracy. Timeless, that. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/08/07/joe-biden-reminded-all-us-what-presidential-president-would-sound-like/ https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/20/biden-2020-foreign-policy-national-security-1228345 Oh, but the pot thing. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to DarthDem (Original post)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 07:04 PM

Raven123 (4,039 posts)

48. Oh my, the Dems have a problem? Must be Tuesday

Since the majority of candidates who run, will not become president, there is a need for the press to pick and pluck at what they see as THE issue. In reality, I think there are likely multiple factors at play. In a large field, one has to find a way to make himself/herself stand out. That is not always easy. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to DarthDem (Original post)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 07:12 PM

Kurt V. (5,624 posts)

53. too fucking bad. we have systematic issues that need answers.

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to DarthDem (Original post)

Tue Dec 3, 2019, 09:21 PM

Iggo (46,617 posts)

67. I know! It's been nearly a whole day!

I'm pooped! If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to DarthDem (Original post)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:13 AM

Tarheel_Dem (31,137 posts)

74. Thank You!

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to DarthDem (Original post)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:41 AM

Scurrilous (38,676 posts)

76. K&R

If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to DarthDem (Original post)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 04:02 AM

regnaD kciN (25,730 posts)

86. BULLETIN: Not all candidates in a race can win!

I know I’ll probably get the “OK Boomer” treatment from some, but I remember the good old days when, if a candidate wound up dropping out of a race that he or she determined they couldn’t win, the basic assumption was that there had been a problem with the campaign, that for some reason they either chose an ineffective message or weren’t able to communicate an effective one well. In short, that the problem was with the candidate or their campaign. Now, it seems to be “proof” that the problem is with the party’s voters instead. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Response to DarthDem (Original post)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 05:18 AM

Celerity (36,756 posts)

92. You have a strange definition of surging

Starting with the latest and working back in time, Klobuchar's last polls on RCP are 2, 2, 3, 2, 2, 2, 1, 1, 3, 2, 1, 5, 1, 6, 2, 3, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 6, 5 , 3, 2, 1. If you removed next door IA polls, she would not even be in the upcoming December debate. I really like her, and if it was down to 6 left My order of preference would be Buttigieg Klobuchar Biden (who is probably going to be our nominee) Warren Bloomberg Sanders But I would not say she is surging as of now. There is still time though. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Celerity (Reply #92)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:32 PM

StevieM (10,452 posts)

109. Mayor Pete gradually worked his way up to the top of my list.

I didn't care too much for him at first, but he has worked hard and he has won me over. And I think he has an excellent shot of winning the nomination. If he can win Iowa and New Hampshire that that might propel him to victory in Nevada. And that might allow him to perform respectably in South Carolina and Super Tuesday. He could very well emerge victorious. I am not a fan of Amy Klobuchar at all. She favors tying foreign aid to a country's willingness to allow Americans the right to adopt from their countries. I think that is a horrible idea. I guess my list would go like this: Buttigieg Biden Warren I am thinking that Kamala Harris would be a good running mate for Mayor Pete. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to StevieM (Reply #109)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:39 PM

Celerity (36,756 posts)

111. I agree that a 3 initial straight run (IA, NH, NV) is probably Buttigieg's only real shot at winning

as it will help him massively on Super Tuesday (or should) I did not know that adoption thing about Klobuchar. My VP choice for Both Pete and Biden has been (for 10 months) Stacey Abrams. She puts more states into play than Harris, and is a force of nature as a speaker. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to Celerity (Reply #111)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:48 PM

StevieM (10,452 posts)

112. I like Stacey Abrams a lot too.

I was just talking about her with my family over Thanksgiving. We all agreed that whoever the Democratic nominee is should strongly consider her as a running-mate. I think Mayor Pete might benefit from having a U.S. Senator on the ticket, although I agree that it is not required. Abrams is an option for him. What I like most about Harris is the image of her destroying Mike Pence in a debate. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to StevieM (Reply #112)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 03:06 PM

Celerity (36,756 posts)

117. +100000

My main concern (obviously) is Pete's systemic trouble with my fellow black voters. In that category, I think Abrams would edge Harris as well, as part of Harris's problems (I have seen a lot of interviews with people of colour say this) is that she is perceived as a 'cop' due to her DA and AG background. I am not sure how much weight to give to that, as Biden is massively up over all others in terms of black voter support, and he was far more draconian for decades as a Senator (super drug warrior, a major force for 'lock 'em up and toss away the key' crime bills) than she was. I also have to say, I think Abrams would smash Pence even more than Harris (as a debate is not a quasi-legal proceeding wherein Harris would CRUSH him) as she (Abrams) can be truly withering is her critiques and carries a truly righteous sense of purpose against the bigotry, racism, and hate that Pence represents. Abrams and Buttigieg are the two most impressive (in completely divergent ways too) of the new-to-the-national-stage political speakers I have seen since Obama. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Response to DarthDem (Original post)

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 12:52 PM

OregonBlue (7,458 posts)

101. Truthfully it's not a race issue with me but a simple matter of not being inspired by either

candidate. They are both good, smart, serious Dems. Harris waffled too much and there is something about Booker that bothers me. I don't even know what it is but it has nothing to do with race. If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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