Clinton still 'disappointed' Sanders held off on endorsing her in 2016

[brooklynite]

The Hill

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton says she's still "disappointed" that Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) took his time endorsing her in the 2016 presidential race, and hopes history doesn't repeat itself with "whoever gets the nomination."

Asked in a wide-ranging interview Wednesday on SiriusXM's "Howard Stern Show" if she hated or was "upset" with Sanders, Clinton replied, "No, disappointed. And I hope he doesn't do it again to whoever gets the nomination."

Once is enough," Clinton added. "We have to join forces."

"Bernie could've endorsed you quicker," Howard Stern said to Clinton.

"He could've. He hurt me. There's no doubt about it, he hurt me."

[Squinch]

1. Aren't we all.

[Hortensis]

101. Oh, yes. nt

[thesquanderer]

212. Yet there are so many more significant things that contributed to her loss.

3+ years later, I'm not sure where this on-going scapegoating helps us. Sanders is unlikely to get the nomination, but if he does, I'd hope we'd all support him as much as we presumably would any other Dem candidate.

Off-hand, here are reasons I'd say HRC lost to Trump...

…russian hacking/interference in the campaign

…email scandal (where even though she was found to have done nothing illegal, it still got a lot of air time, and still ended up concluding that she had handled things poorly, playing into the “poor judgment” attack)

…comey bringing emails back to the forefront the week before the election

…uninspired VP choice (he may have well been an excellent VP, but I doubt he got her so much as a single additional state, and his lackluster debate performance didn't help)

…not spending enough time and resources in the rust belt (and/or Trump putting in more)

...people who would never vote for a woman (misogyny)

…people who would vote for a woman, but would never vote for Hillary (baggage/high negatives)

…Sanders' primary campaign that emphasized her wall street/establishment ties

…the fact that she really *was* very much an establishment candidate, in a year where many people of both parties (or neither) were more drawn to outsiders

…negative ads/accusations about Sanders in the primaries that made it harder to capture maximum support from Sanders voters (I remember the one about supporting the auto bailout in particular)

...and okay, he could have endorsed her sooner.

In the big picture, that last one is about the least significant, IMO.

Meanwhile, the number of Sanders supporters who did NOT vote for Hillary ended up being not that different from the number of 2008 Hillary supporters who did NOT vote for Obama.

[Squinch]

213. Right. A large contingent booing at the convention had no effect on public perception at all.

And not to suggest that your opinion doesn't rule the day, but the ridiculous behavior of Sanders supporters throughout the primary season influenced votes outside the circle of Sanders supporters. That canard that "most Sanders supporters supported Hillary" does not tell the story of their influence on Independents and undecideds.

With friends like that...

[thesquanderer]

214. I didn't say zero impact. But compared to some of those others?

I also think you over-estimate the number of voters who were ever even AWARE of any convention booing, much less were influenced by it.

Do you really think that Sanders had more of an impact on Hillary's inability to get Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania than, say, Comey's last minute shenanigans? Or Hillary's own lack of focus on those states? Or Russian interference? Or Hillary's own high negatives? etc.?

But no, no DUer's opinion rules the day. Still, posting our perspectives is kind of the whole raison d'etre of the place.

[fleabiscuit]

280. You might have footing if it wasn't lost by a razors edge. But I don't think you do. nt

[thesquanderer]

291. Razor's edge means that perhaps any ONE of those many things could have made a difference.

In that case, instead of scapegoating, HRC could be looking to blame one of the things that WAS under her control, like campaigning in states she took for granted, or going with a stronger VP pick. Either of which would probably have made more difference than anything Sanders related. As Mayor Pete says, a candidate like Trump shouldn't have even been able to get within cheating distance.

And, BTW, Sanders seriously campaigned for her. Check this article for example...

https://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/bernie-sanderss-hard-fight-for-hillary-clinton

[Gothmog]

329. I was at the convention

These stunts hurt the Clinton campaign. Instead of having a platform to get her message out, the Clinton campaign was busy dealing with these stunts

[R B Garr]

2. She's right, and I'm glad she is calling it out.

[Eliot Rosewater]

127. absolutely, and stay tuned for it happening again...and maybe worse

[honest.abe]

3. I have a feeling we are headed to a similar situation in 2020.

Bernie thinks he is the Democrat's "Saviour" and his supporters are serious, dedicated and have a huge investment in Bernie. They wont go quietly.

[Gothmog]

35. if sanders is held to under 300 delegates, then the next national convention may be okay

I was a delegate to the Philadelphia convention and saw how the process works. One key item is that under the rules, a candidate cannot be put into nomination without 300 delegates. https://democrats.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/2020-Call-for-Convention-WITH-Attachments-2.26.19.pdf

Nomination of the Democratic Candidate for President: The Permanent Chair shall receive nominations from the floor for the Democratic candidate for the Office of President of the United
States in the following manner:

a. Requests to nominate a presidential candidate shall be in writing and shall have affixed thereto the written approval of the proposed nominee and the name of the individuals who shall be recognized to make the nominating and seconding speeches on behalf of a presidential candidate and shall be delivered to the Convention Secretary at a location as specified by the Secretary no later than 6:00 p.m. of the day preceding the day designated for the commencement of presidential nominations.

b. Each such request must be accompanied by a petition indicating support for the proposed nominee signed by delegates representing not less than 300 or more than 600 delegate votes, not more than 50 of which may come from one (1) delegation. A delegate may not sign more than one (1) nominating petition for president and for vice president. Pledged and automatic delegates may sign the petition.

If sanders is frozen out of enough states due to the 15% rule and remaining non-Biden delegates are split among several candidates, there is a chance that sanders may not reach 300 threshold There are a number of states in the south where Biden may pick up most of the delegates due to the 15% rule

[honest.abe]

40. Yeah, that is my hope that Biden wins so decisively that Bernie and his supporters give in.

and admit defeat. Still have my fears even so.

[Hortensis]

112. Not a chance to ending graciously. Not them.

However, with at most a group of delegates too small to put his name in contention, to yell to lock our nominee up loud enough to noticed, or any reason to pay attention to them, Sanders' own ability to disrupt will be greatly limited.

[Thekaspervote]

54. Well then let's hope this will be the case

[question everything]

87. Hasn't Sanders forced changes in the process?

[Hortensis]

120. Yes. We had to make sure illicit requests for superdelegates

to betray and misuse their power to overset the popular vote, such as Sanders made, had no real risk of succeeding. Not that more than one superdelegate in 2016 (Sanders himself) would, of course. The rest all protected the sanctity of our election as they're supposed to. But still.

They also had to look at all other possible ways someone in future might try to misuse the rules or find a hole to crawl through to overset the democratic process.

[The Mouth]

152. the whole idea of the Superdelegates

is to have a cadre who puts party before ego. And to make the outcome quick and decisive.

The conventions of 1968 and 1972 were horrible for the party, many ballots, much acrimony, really "bad optics".

The best outcome would be a solid first ballot overwhelming victory. Right now it's Biden's to lose, but at least twice in my lifetime the strong front-runners met a dismal fate -Edwards and RFK, so it's not over until it's over; but then it should be OVER.

I'm for Yang as I was for Bernie- because I think the ideas should be heard, even if the center of the party is uncomfortable with them, but right now Joe's got the ground game and the infrastructure.

I totally get why many of the Bernie supporters, who don't remember just how badly the divisiveness of 1968 and 1972 hurt us, sasw the supers as merely 'the establishment putting the people down', and I think that on balance he's done a pretty good job of dragging the party back left, simply by showing that a Socialist can win primaries and the far left ican get out the vote, too.

It's kind of like a chess match between Biden and Warren; it's about not making a mistake. Yang and Pete have bright futures ahead of them (as, of course, does Harris).

[Hortensis]

166. All Sanders' current ideas are mainstream Democratic,

but all ideas have costs and benefits and not all are best, or possible, for the moment and situation.
That reality always leaves something for the Sanders of this world to use by claiming Democrats are refusing to do it because it's so good and needed and they're really no better than Republicans.

Actually every Democratic president since Harry Truman has wanted universal healthcare, while Republicans have always opposed it. Hillary believes we need a guaranteed universal income, but hoped the numbers would be better in her second term. And Nancy Pelosi believes we need to destroy the ultrawealthy classes before they destroy us. Not that that's at all new with her, rather than an imperative just waiting for the power to make it happen. Obama actually made a start in spite of Republicans holding both houses, and Hillary was going to build on that but...

Where Sanders has a different idea is in the 1930s socialism he can't give away, much less sell, even after he shut up about seizing a long list of industries and institutions for communal ownership and switched to trying to deceive people that their roads and schools are really just socialism.

Not all ideas that haven't been implemented yet are good one, often the reason they're not; and not all ideas claimed by people are actually their own. In fact, in a world full of brilliant, aspiring people, they're usually not.

[George II]

227. In fact most of them have been mainstream Democratic ideas for decades.

[Hortensis]

230. Yes. That Democrats have instead always fought progressivism

is something Sanders has been selling for decades. Even that idea, central to his identity and positioning, is far, far from new with him, though.

It's a lot older even than today's liberal-dominated Democratic Party. We have a liberal democracy, and liberals under any party label are the people who've not only made progressivism integral to our form of government, but lead every progressive advance this nation has ever had. Yet Sanders'-like leaders arise in every generation who claim to be more progressive than progressive, more New-Dealer than the New Dealers, even more Democratic than Democrats, but whose inner demons perversely require them to deny and oppose.

Thomas Jefferson said he felt the most sensible response to those of the revolutionary period was to refuse to talk with them. Since wired-in opposition never allowed the exchange of worthwhile ideas with people who believed only they could be the true revolutionaries.

Well, I've brought myself to the point of at least remembering to be glad history turned out as it should that time.

[Gothmog]

162. These are the current rules that are now in effect

[Renew Deal]

184. It's even more important that they are not in the building.

No signs and neon shirts.

[Thekaspervote]

48. Yes! He's already publicly stated he "wasn't sure" if he would endorse EW should she win the nom

How can that be?! She has been one his most ardent supporters over the years

[redqueen]

113. Source? nt

[Hortensis]

137. Oh no, Kasper, to Warren supporting Sanders. Big no.

In fact, he may be carrying a grudge over her refusal to endorse him in 2016 in spite of his many requests, eventually endorsing Hillary. He's sorta one of a kind, and people don't realize she's not at all like him. He was very angry and resentful over losing the nomination, strange since he was never as close as the media liked to pretend and must have known it, plus of course he actually lost months before the convention. But anger is not always reasonable, and Warren was against him.

Another reason Sanders might not endorse Warren is that as a Democrat she's really hardly different from the Republicans. Sanders says so all the time and has a long history of feeling Democrats aren't worth supporting, even shouldn't be, for that reason.

He also, interestingly, has a history of refusing to endorse or help candidates who were very ideologically similar to him in VT, who applied to him to help them carry his own torch forward. There's been plenty of speculation about his refusals, but no one's ever known why.

Of course he also refused to endorse his own son for congress, but imo no one should have done that, so...a pass there?

[Darwin2019]

71. The Bernie resentment of Hillary's win helped the Russians influence his supporters

Bernie

[Gothmog]

330. Russia used sanders to help trump win

Link to tweet

[redqueen]

114. "They wont go quietly."

This is not how one would expect democrats to speak of fellow democratic voters.

One would think democrats would be invested in building bridges.

If they want Dems to win, anyway.

[honest.abe]

126. Yeah, and one would think they, the Bernie supporters, as "fellow Democrats", would do the same.

But we have 2016 as an example and many did not.

If Bernie somehow miraculously wins I will totally and fully supported him and try to convince others to do the same. That is what I expect from the those supporting Bernie if Biden wins. Somehow I doubt that will happen given past history.

[redqueen]

131. 12% of Bernie's supporters (all if not most were Repubs) voted for Trump.

25% of Hillary's supporters voted for McCain and not Obama.

Even though she dropped out earlier and cheered him on on a satisfactory manner as per some voices here.

Explain why Bernie is held to a higher standard please.

[honest.abe]

138. Its not just the number of Bernie voters who switched to Trump.

It was also the negativity portrayed by Sanders and his supporters towards Hillary. It turned off many potential Dem voters. Many just stayed home. If he had dropped out earlier and gave her his full support Trump might not be sitting in the WH right now.

[redqueen]

143. "Might" - it is poor strategy to actively alienate voters now

over something that "might" have happened in the past.

[honest.abe]

168. Ok how about very good possibility?

[redqueen]

180. Even if he does the exact same thing

I don't think it has nearly the effect people here make it out to be. More of his voters voted for her than her supporters voted for Obama.

But I do think this could (will likely) be used to fuel the anti democratic party / apolitical narrative.

I see more value in building unity than pointing fingers.

[honest.abe]

204. I dont know why you keep bringing up Hillary and Obama 2008??

That was a completely different situation and irrelevant to what Bernie and his supporters did in 2016.

[redqueen]

207. Because it makes no sense to me to hold Bernie to a higher standard.

That's why.

People on this thread are things about how he better get his supporters in line this time and the like. It's almost farcical.

[honest.abe]

209. There is no comparison so there is no standard.

There are many clear differences:

-- Obama won so no one really cares what those non-Obama Hillary people did.
-- Those people were most likely racists (yes we do have racists in our party) and simply couldnt vote for a black man.
-- Hillary bowed out gracefully and didn't make any claims like Bernie and his supporters did like being cheated
-- Hillary could have drug it out further since she had so many potential super delegates but she didnt.
-- Bernie should have withdrawn earlier once it became mathematically impossible for him to win.
-- Many of Bernie's supporters were horrific at the convention like booing John Lewis (sickening)
-- Bernie did little to calm his supporters. He made some canned statements but it wasnt nearly enough.

I fear a repeat of some of this given what happened in 2016 but I do have hope Sanders and his people have learned from past mistakes.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

306. Thank you!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[lapucelle]

176. ...

Link to tweet

[MarcA]

196. Seemed or Seems like many Sanders supporters are Pro-Bernie

and Non-Dem, Non-Rep. Getting those driven largely by anti-status quo sentiments
to support another candidate or a party is a strong challenge.

[LisaM]

254. I'm very suspicious of those numbers. I don't know a single HRC supporter who didn't vote for Obama

I know several Bernie supporters who didn't vote for HRC, and still badmouth her.

It may be that some Republicans had switched over to HRC in the primary, that's all I can think of, and then switched back, but my real life experience is that 2008 Hillary voters just shook themselves off and supported Obama. Some of the people who I know supported HRC in 2008 went out and worked for Obama, too.

[redqueen]

258. Whatever the reason, it shows how ridiculous all the continuing effort to blame Bernie is.

It's been widely covered.

This guy gives an interesting breakdown.

https://medium.com/jriddle/the-12-bernie-to-trump-figure-and-24-clinton-to-mccain-figure-comes-from-brian-schaffner-of-the-9905971c9f45

[ehrnst]

279. She has an opinion, she was asked about it, and she gave an answer.

What's ridiculous is going on and on about one part of a long interview because a conservative publication decided to make it a talking point.

They're grateful to those who get their knickers in a knot about it.

[redqueen]

284. Which is why it's smart not to give them the ammo,

wouldn't you agree?

[ehrnst]

324. Well, if one considers a woman speaking her mind about a man when asked "ammo,"

then that's really beyond my concern about what is and isn't "ammo."

I suppose a man referring to himself as a socialist isn't giving the GOP a huge amount of "ammo."

And reckless?

How about taking the bait from a RW publication that has the result of ginning up divisive outrage amongst Democrats?

Is that as "reckless" as the winner of the vote in the 2016 primary and GE answering a question about that election?

Perhaps among those who are irritated by the very idea that she speaks publicly without apology.

[lapucelle]

177. The national press secretary for the BS campaign

[treestar]

232. Hopefully not, since it is not just two people

Bernie was the other of two candidates (O'Malley didn't go that far).

Hopefully the concept that their candidate was "cheated" does not affect supporters of the many who dropped out.

[redqueen]

4. Oh God here we go again

Does she really think this helps?

[George II]

6. She was asked a question and she answered it. She didn't bring it up herself.

[redqueen]

7. She didn't have to answer it that way.

We have seen several candidates demonstrate better judgment during debates when moderators attempted to encourage them to engage in this internal squabbling.

[getagrip_already]

12. she answered truthfully...

Her candicacy was harmed, and added to the other isses, cost her the election.

She has every right to call out whoever she wants to. The fact that one is a current candidate doesn't mean she has to keep quiet about it.

But what I question is why a hill article that takes her comments out of context and intentionally amplified is raised to the level it has been.

This has happened multiple times today by people using mayor petes banner. Stop it. Just stop.

[redqueen]

21. It's what they did before. It's what they'll do again.

I don't mean du. I mean the media in general.

Q
And people react. They did before. It stands to reason they will do it again. She should know this - I'm sure she does.

So why answer this way? Like I said - more than once during debates, several candidates have diplomatically answered leading / loaded questions.

She knows better. This is reckless.

[getagrip_already]

25. disagree...

Not reckless at all. She isn't running, and it's her story.

Plus, it's true. She isn't the issue. One of the candidates has something to answer for, and has only ducked the issue. Talk to him.

[redqueen]

151. I'm discussing another possible mistake by Clinton.

Whether it's used successfully to peel off possible Dem voters remains to be seen.

If he's not the nominee, maybe this time the percentage of his supporters who vote for the republican nominee will be closer to hers.

[MrsCoffee]

215. He won't be the nominee. Not even close.

But please proceed....

[ehrnst]

270. Other Democratic politicians are praised for negative statments about other Democratic politicians

Last edited Sat Dec 7, 2019, 07:35 PM - Edit history (1)

on DU.

Isn't that also "reckless?"

[redqueen]

276. It depends?

If it's valid, and it's about policies, voting history, etc., I don't think so, because it's part of the primary.

[ehrnst]

278. I see?

Not the same because reasons.

Bernie and his surrogates apparently are subject to different standards when they express their opinions.

[redqueen]

283. Ha true. For some people, Hillary criticizing Bernie over this is fine and dandy.

Afaic, this particular criticism is indeed reckless.

[ehrnst]

325. No, not really.

For some people Bernie saying anything comparable or more critical about Hillary during the 2016 GE was fine and dandy.

Afaic, no matter what effect it had on the disastrous outcome of the GE.

[BannonsLiver]

285. +10000

Gish gallop in full effect. Or, just chronically obtuse. I’m on the fence.

[ehrnst]

326. Six of one, half dozen of the other. (nt)

[ehrnst]

268. Apparently she's supposed to keep her mouth shut about what she observed in the last election.

While others can lob accusation after divisive accusation about what happened with impunity.

Because REASONS!

[LisaM]

26. You think she should have lied?

I mean really, it was a pretty innocuous response. He not only endorsed late, he conceded late.

How exactly do you think she should have answered? With a lie?

[customerserviceguy]

34. Clever politicians

can figure out how to tell a truth in a way that doesn't put them in the spotlight. It happens every Sunday morning on the talking head shows.

It sounds whiny, and it takes attention away from the other candidates.

[LisaM]

130. She's not a candidate.

This is just one remark from what appears to be a long interview with Howard Stern, so I wouldn't say she's putting herself in the spotlight.

[customerserviceguy]

145. The "other" candidates

that I was referring to were the ones besides Bernie Sanders, who was clearly mentioned in this interview.

[ehrnst]

282. To those who think she should disappear, any public utterance is "putting herself in the spotlight."

[Cha]

139. NO.. it does NOT sound "whiny".. not to those who appreciate

the plain spoken TRUTH.

Hillary!

[customerserviceguy]

156. Faux Snooze

will be happy to spread the word that it was whiny. They seize on every utterance of Hillary Clinton about either the 2020 or the 2016 elections to convince their audience that she thinks that the whole world revolves around her.

I agree that the Berniebots really screwed her over in 2016 (especially the ones who either sat out the election or voted for Jill Stein), but what's done is done, why go on and on about it? It doesn't help any candidate, and it will have no effect on the people who back Bernie out of disgust with the way the DNC treated him in 2016.

She's not a candidate, but her words are accorded a lot of importance. Maybe she should expend them in support of someone, instead of chattering on about what others did wrong in 2016.

[Cha]

163. You Don't Get It. I don't give a shite about faux. I care about

the Truth. We were there... we lived it.

Too bad for those who can't handle it.

[customerserviceguy]

167. Yes, it's true

And her saying that truth helps out the Democratic Party and its presidential candidates in what way?

[Cha]

174. Yes.. It's the Truth and it helps out the Democratic Party

immeasurably.. we like it when truth is spoken about such "unspeakable" acts.

[ehrnst]

272. Those who forget the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. (nt)

[ehrnst]

271. I would posit that there are Dem politicians who are expending far, far more energy

accusing fellow Democrats of wrongdoing in a far more public way.

And they praised on DU and on twitter as "speaking truth to power" and "brilliant."

[LanternWaste]

229. Best thing to do is to rationalize being disingenuous. Spot on job!

[ehrnst]

269. "Whiny?" Really? DU is full of posts praising Democratic politicians who seek out the spotlight

with far, far more negative and unsubstantiated statements about other Democratic politicians. Those pols are referred to as "brilliant!" and "courageous" and "speaking truth to POWER!" for doing this, and not "whiny."

But HRC, who is a private citizen, answers one question during a long interview with an opinion that is incredibly mild by comparison, and OH MY GOD, THAT'S RECKLESS.



Why hold HRC to a "higher standard?"

[George II]

28. It was a long, involved interview. Why was only that line lifted from it?

Anyone hear what else was discussed and what her answers were?

[riversedge]

57. because The Hill does this to Democrats. yes. they do.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

60. So true... same can be said about Hillary's mulling a THIRD run, BASED ON HER OWN WORDS.

I don't think she was being serious, but perhaps so, I can't tell... not sure what Hillary's strategy is in keeping the door wide open to enter the race. Hopefully, she eventually will back one of the current candidates and enjoy her retirement from political office.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[redqueen]

72. Well one poll I saw had 91% of respondents AGAINST her jumping in.

So hopefully that was all we'll hear about that.

[StevieM]

77. You never legitimately heard about it to begin with.

She was never considering a run, that was just media nonsense so that they could attack her again.

[redqueen]

80. This is why so many people hate politicians.

"I, as I say, never, never, never say never and I will certainly tell you I'm under enormous pressure from many, many, many people to think about it," Clinton told BBC Radio. "But as of this moment, sitting here in this studio talking to you, that is absolutely not in my plans."

[StevieM]

91. You are chosing to intrepret her words in a way that allows you to criticize her.

This is not a thing. This story about HRC mulling another run....it's not a real thing.

[redqueen]

106. I'm highlighting what makes her answer unclear. Noncommittal.

There's an easy way to answer. Yes or no.

She didn't do that. She left the door open

[TwilightZone]

115. "that is absolutely not in my plans"

That couldn't be any clearer.

[redqueen]

117. Only if you ignore all the other words around that phrase.

If she'd just said that, it would have been clear.

She didn't.

[TwilightZone]

140. It's no different in context.

And your interpretation only works if you ignore the other dozen times she's said she isn't going to run.

[redqueen]

153. We know how the press works. So does she. nt

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

144. They're you go again... citing facts... Hillary's own words!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[redqueen]

155. And she has some doozies. But surely none of that contributed to her loss.

Nope, all Bernie's fault.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

159. LOL!! Of course, it's ALWAYS Bernie's fault!! Who else could be responsible?!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[StevieM]

172. I have said many times that I don't blame Bernie or Hillary for our loss.

2016 was James Comey's election from start to finish.

If Hillary didn't have a private email server she would have been publicly placed under FBI investigation for something else. And if Bernie, O'Malley, Biden or Warren had been our candidate then they would have been placed under FBI investigation.

[MrsCoffee]

216. Oh please. Full blown CDS.

Give it up.

[George II]

83. She's a brilliant, accomplished woman with LOTS to say, and she's free to do whatever she wants.

What other woman in the WORLD can speak from her perspective? None.

[StevieM]

89. Are you really still on this?

Hillary has never been mulling over a run. Every time she has been asked she has said no. This latest "mulling over" is like the fourth time we have been told that she has started to mull it over.

The filing deadline has already passed in some states, and is almost over in California. Nobody new is entering the race.

And she isn't going to endorse anyone until the primary is over. She will endorse whoever wins the primary, including Bernie Sanders. And she won't make him wait for it, she will immediately back him if he wins.

Unless there is a brokered convention. Then we will have to listen to people claiming she is going to try to jump in at the convention. Only when we officially have a nominee, or a presumptive nominee, will people stop finding reasons to believe this.

[mcar]

82. How should she have answered it?

By lying?

[redqueen]

84. 'All that is in the past, there's no reason to rehash issues from past elections.

What we need to focus on is ensuring that we convey our plans as a party for a better future for all Americans.'

Or something like that.

This is not brain surgery.

[mcar]

88. She's issuing a warning

I'm seeing over and over again that voters, people online and media haven't learned a thing from 2016. She has a right, and, I would argue, a duty, to remind us of the mistakes made by so many.

That's not brain surgery.

[StarfishSaver]

97. And if she didn't say anything, people would be demanding to know "Where is Hillary?!"

[mcar]

99. She's a woman in the public eye - damned if she does, damned if she doesn't

Someone on this thread told her to STFU. Nice.

[redqueen]

104. A warning about what?

That Bernie did a bad thing and she still feels bad about it?

Seriously?

[mcar]

105. That it might happen again

Seriously.

[redqueen]

108. And do you really think Bernie's supporters not voting for Hillary

was a major factor in her loss?

[mcar]

118. Yes

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds

https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-trump-2016-election-654320

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/24/16194086/bernie-trump-voters-study

[honest.abe]

128. +1!

Thank you.

[mcar]

133. Note the goalposts were moved

[redqueen]

129. 12% of Bernie's supporters (all if not most were Repubs) voted for Trump.

Not sure how anyone would expect his withdrawal and encouraging words would have convinced them to vote for her. Doubt anything he could have said or did would have changed those voters' minds.

"Party seems to have had something to do with it — Sanders-Trump voters were much less likely than Sanders-Clinton or Sanders-third party voters to have been Democrats."

None of it is as conclusive as some want to believe.

"But then, it's not as simple as that. First off, this counterfactual world in which these voters didn't vote for Trump rests on a few ifs. If the Sanders-Trump voters in these three states had defected and if nothing else had happened to somehow take electoral votes from Clinton elsewhere and if this survey is correct ... then yes, Clinton would have won. (Some would also argue that if Clinton had campaigned more in the so-called "blue wall" states, she also could have picked up more votes.)"


This should end all this nonsense for good, but I don't expect it will. I guess some people must like fighting.


Although 12% of Bernie's supporters voted for Trump - ans a good portion od those WERE REPUBLICANS,

"While much was made of the so-called Bernie-or-bust phenomenon, the number of Sanders supporters who crossed party lines to vote for Trump in 2016 may not be that unusual. A 2010 study in Public Opinion Quarterly found that in the 2008 election 25 percent of those who voted for Clinton in the Democratic primary ended up voting for Republican John McCain, rather than Barack Obama, in the general election."

[mcar]

132. Moving the goalposts

108. And do you really think Bernie's supporters not voting for Hillary

was a major factor in her loss?

[redqueen]

136. I'm not agreeing that it was. I just addressed what you provided

which is a lot of conjecture and what ifs.

It's too bad she wasn't as good a candidate as Obama, who was able to win despite 25% of her supporters voting for McCain.

[mcar]

141. I gave you facts

If you bothered to look at the links, you would have seen that.

Once again, you move the goalposts.

You said:

108. And do you really think Bernie's supporters not voting for Hillary

was a major factor in her loss?

I proved, with facts, that the answer is yes.

Now you are going on about Obama and McCain, which has nothing to do with the statement you made.

I proved that Bernie's supporters not voting for Hillary was a major factor in her loss. Just admit it.

[redqueen]

154. I quoted them. nt

[Cha]

169. Thank you for the FACTS, mcar.. time to move

"the goalposts"!

[mcar]

188. I feel like facts are important, Cha

it's sad others don't agree.

[treestar]

233. Yes. To this day you have them claiming the DNC rigged

it and Bernie was cheated. They have not given that up. That's why it is too bad he just had to run again.

[redqueen]

235. Sanders doesn't deserve all the blame. Donna Brazile flat out said it was rigged.

And the the DNC, by trying to anoint Hillary, gave everyone reason to distrust them.

[lapucelle]

178. ...

[StarfishSaver]

61. Hillary's not allowed to talk

You didn't know?

[redqueen]

73. Reductio ad absurdum. nt

[Cha]

170. And, tell the TRUTH!

[Cha]

8. Asked and Answered with the Truth. And, that

always "helps".

[redqueen]

10. Disagree.

As we have seen several times during the debates, a better way is possible.

Some seem to prefer to increase divisiveness. I'm not one.

[Cha]

13. I appreciate that Hillary spoke the truth.

[Thekaspervote]

51. Me too!! Voters need to be aware! Especially since we may be headed in the same direction

[Cha]

56. Yes, not the time for sweeping anything

under the carpet.

Kasper!

[mcar]

85. A better way is possible?

Once again, HRC is held to a higher standard, even as a private citizen.

[redqueen]

103. The same standard as Buttigieg

who to his credit did not follow one of the moderators leading questions during one debate. He really made an impression on me and me many others.

No, Hillary is under no obligation to respond in a magnanimous way - but does her failure to do so exacerbate problems for the party? Does it reflect badly on her?

That for each individual to decide.

[PatSeg]

15. And that is how many of us remember it

His reluctance to endorse her only served to divide the party more.

[Cha]

23. Of course! Speaking of "Divisiveness".

[JoeOtterbein]

27. +1

[TidalWave46]

33. I view this as much different than the Gabbard comments.

The Gabbard comments did little but help Gabbard.

The Sanders comment I back completely. It was horrible what he did. Specially after being treated with kid gloves by Clinton during the campaign. He should be thanking her for making him a multimillionaire as he is on his way to retirement.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

47. Obviously not... why the divisiveness?

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

203. Yes... even though it doesn't.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Amimnoch]

224. Ha! That's exactly what I said when BS announced he was running again!

Well, other than it was “he” instead of “she”.

[Gothmog]

331. I have no trouble with Hillary's comments

Link to tweet

[getagrip_already]

5. what is the point of regurgitating these fractious right wing hit pieces?

I've seen multiple articles posted that will have no other result than splitting camps apart and raising
right wing sites visibility.

It's almost like these posts are intended to cause friction?

But clinton is way too reserved.

[honest.abe]

9. To not to repeat the same mistakes made in 2016.

[redqueen]

11. This kind of thing INCREASES the likelihood of a repeat.

I'm surprised that's not blindingly obvious.

Not from Sanders, but his supporters.

[getagrip_already]

17. and thats why he should drop out....

It is blatantly obvious that the trolls will use this to drive a wedge. He let it happen last time; he has a choice to stop it now. He isn't getting the nomination for this very reason.

[redqueen]

63. That won't help.

No one drops out this early unless they have to.

[honest.abe]

20. I dont see it that way.

I think we need to be aware of the possibility and work towards trying to stop it from happening in a constructive way. Perhaps offering Bernie more visibility at the convention or working with him to revise the platform or whatever. Anything within reason to help keep him and his supporters from reacting the way they did in 2016.

[redqueen]

65. Clinton's comment will be used to peel off Dem votes.

Hopefully it won't be too effective. We'll see.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

147. Precisely!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Gothmog]

201. Only if sanders is the nominee

I really doubt that sanders will be the nominee. So far sanders is not on track to be the nominee

[StarfishSaver]

66. Then he should get his supporters in line.

Hillary can't spend the rest of her life tiptoeing around because some Sanders supporters are unhinged. That's on him. If he doesn't have the chops to influence his own supporters, maybe he shouldn't try to be leader of the free world.

[redqueen]

74. Herding cats

Do I need to explain it?

The fact that you think it's possible, let alone easy ...

[Gothmog]

275. I was a delegate to the national convention

We had a strong whipping infrastructure in place for Clinton delegates. My whip warned me about the various stunt including booing John Lewis and Elijah Cummings well in advance of these stunts. According to my whip, sanders was asked to stop the stunt of boing Congressman John Lewis and sanders declined.

[redqueen]

277. Hearsay is dangerous.

I prefer facts.

[Gothmog]

298. sanders refused to try to control his delegates and so DNC had to use Sarah Silverman/Al Franken

I was at the convention and I saw the conduct of the sanders delegates first hand. sanders refused to try to control his delegates and so the DNC tried to shame these delegates with Sarah Silverman and Al Franken.

Link to tweet

Going to a national convention is a once in a lifetime experience and I brought by youngest daughter as my guest. When my daughter was called the C-word and verbally attacked by some sanders delegates for refusing to get me to change my vote, I complained and was told by the Texas delegation that sanders was not going to do anything.

[redqueen]

299. Nothing from thad link backs your assertion.

And my experience with the Texas delegation was almost enough to put me off politics.

From your link:

Seeking to avoid the factionalism of the RNC last week, the Clinton and Sanders’ campaigns Monday afternoon co-ordinated a quick response of emails, tweets and texts of Bernie declaring “We have got to defeat Donald Trump and do everything we can to elect Hillary Clinton to the White house.”

[Gothmog]

300. I was at the convention and I know what I saw

As for your comments on the Texas delegation, I have been working many years to turn Texas blue and we are seeing progress. The Texas democratic Party is going to turn Texas blue. After the 2016 elections, the GOP had a 20 seat advantage in the Texas House (which was down from a 51 seat majority after 2010 election). For the 2011 session of the Texas legislature, the GOP had a 101 to 49 seat majority in the Texas house. We picked up 12 state house seats in 2018 and have a good chance to pick up the nine seats needed to take over the Texas House. In my county we now have two open state house seats in that Rick Miller (a major homophobe) is not running and Eliz Markowitz is in a special election with GOP candidate who abused his kids by forcing them to take medication to cause these children to vomit if they ate something he did not approve of. The DCCC has targeted six congressional districts including the one where I live in. I have been supporting Sri Preston Kulkarni for Tx CD 22 as well as Lizzie Fletcher for Tx CD 7 and Colin Allgood in Dallas. MJ Hegar has a good chance of beating Cornyn for Senate.

Texas will turn blue and the GOP will be unable to win the electoral college after this happens. There are a large number of real democrats who are working their butts off to turn Texas blue

[redqueen]

302. I live in a red area and the 'real democrats' here

well I'll just stop there and repeat that the actions I experienced at the state convention that year almost put me off politics completely.

[Gothmog]

304. Which state convention?

I have been to a number of Texas state conventions. I was unhappy at the 2016 state convention even though I was elected to be a delegate to the national convention. I actually enjoyed the 2018 state convention in Fort Worth which surprised me

[redqueen]

311. 2016

I enjoyed some of it, but certain key interactions really soured me on politics in general.

[Gothmog]

315. The facility was terrible and there were a ton of issues

The San Antonio convention center was not available. The 3018 convention was better. The 2020 convention will be in San Antonio but will be at the convention center

[mcar]

305. Gothmog was there

Not hearsay, witness.

[redqueen]

313. He literally just said that someone told him Bernie did something.

That is the literal definition of hearsay.

[Gothmog]

314. Are you a member of the bar?

You do understand that hearsay is admissible as evidence under about 30 exceptions? Your hearsay objection reminds me of the same objections used by trump and his lawyers in the impeachment hearings.

[redqueen]

316. .

[Gothmog]

317. So you are not a member of the bar

Thank you for confirming this

Your reliance on hearsay rule is misplaced. The use of this objection by trump and his defenders is the source of a great deal of amusement in the legal community

[redqueen]

318. You heard someone say Bernie said something.

Is there any actual evidence that Bernie said that?

[Gothmog]

319. If you were a member of the bat, you would know how amusing this objection is

This objection did not work for trump other than give the legal community some laughs.

I was at the convention. I and other delegates asked the party to step in. The reason why Al Franklin and Sarah Silverman made their announcement was due to the fact that sanders refused to do anything to control his delegates I trust the party officials who told me this

Again if you were a member of the bar, you would know how amusing it was when trump used the hearsay objection.

[Gothmog]

332. The hearsay objection does not apply

This ibjection is similar to the objections used by trump supporters. It really does not apply

[Cha]

86. Riiight.. BS hired jill stein pushers and voters for his top

staff.. I don't see that happening.

[redqueen]

164. Tell me, Cha - why is Bernie held to a higher standard?

Only 12% of his supporters voted for Trump, and most if not all were actual republicans.

However 25% of her supporters voted for McCain - the tea party candidate.

[Cha]

171. I don't hold BS to a "higher standard".

[MrsCoffee]

219. Nice try. No one has been held to a higher standard than Hillary Clinton.

For fuck sake she couldn’t even have pneumonia without everyone freaking out and calling for her to drop out. You think she could have had a heart attack and people would just go about pretending she was ok and it wasn’t a big deal?

Give. It. Up.

[Gothmog]

301. Amen

Hillary Clinton is a truly great lady and was treated unfairly

[mcar]

157. Yep

[betsuni]

158. +1

[Cha]

16. Exactly, honest.abe. It's the truth and some

can't deal with that.

[honest.abe]

31. It really scares me that it might happen again...

and we cannot afford that.

[Cha]

38. I know.. it's always

at the back of my mind.. and why wouldn't it be?

[Thekaspervote]

59. +1000

[mcar]

90. Yep

[brooklynite]

14. Point 1: A. Clinton interview is newsworthy...

Point 2: Any article referencing a current candidate must be posted here.

[getagrip_already]

22. there are links to the full article in rolling stone. just post that.

Not one from the hill which has editorial bias.

[brooklynite]

36. I guess I could have gone with the NBC News version...

Hillary Clinton puts lesbian rumors to bed

...or maybe not.

[Cole483rn13]

18. Is this real

How did he hurt her? I guess had he dropped out earlier the dnc leaks wouldn't have happened or had the intended effects so by proxy it was his fault.

I think if we make ourselves go back and refamiliarize ourselves with the circumstances then can we really blame him for wanting to see it to the end?

[tymorial]

24. Are you serious with this?

You support the nominee. And I mean period.

He's not a member of the party but he decided to run as a Democrat. When he lost the nomination it was his responsibility to ensure that the Democratic candidate received all the support she could receive from the party and those who choose to caucus with the Democrats.

I will never vote for Sanders in the primary. Hell will freeze over twice before that happens. But, if he is the nominee then he will have my full support because that is the way it needs to be if we are going to beat the sociopath in the White House.

If you don't get this I'm sorry for you

[djg21]

49. If he's the nominee we have 4 more years of Trump to look forward to.

That is just the reality. I lived in Burlington when Bernie was mayor. I liked him. Things changed in 2016, and now I wish he’d just go away. He is a spoiler who cost Hillary the Presidency, and he and his supporters are largely responsible for saddling us with Trump. If Bernie somehow becomes the Democratic nominee, we will lose the general election because middle America just won’t vote for him. This election again will come down to the electoral college, and not the popular vote. We need a candidate who can pick up purple states, and Bernie will not be able to deliver.

[LesterT]

181. Opinions obviously vary on that.

A case can be made quite easily that if Bernie Sanders was the nominee Trump would be a footnote in history. He was leading Trump by wide margins in every poll leading up to 2016. In 2020 that remains the same. Besides Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders is consistently polling well above the margin of error to kick Trump's ass handily.

[mcar]

189. He was not the nominee in 2016

so said polls are not relevant.

[LesterT]

191. That's True.

However, many people felt that Bernie Sanders was the stronger candidate and had the better platform to take on Trump despite his failure to get the nomination. And,of course, it's all relevant now how Bernie Sanders is polling against Trump.

[mcar]

192. 4 million voters thought differently

so again, irrelevant.

[LesterT]

195. Obviously I disagree.

Bernie Sander's base of support from 2016 remains stronger than ever and he's surging at the right time. If he should be the nominee he will destroy Trump and it won't be close enough to be subject to the 2016 disaster.

[Cha]

262. uh huh..

[LesterT]

263. Hmm.

Not much there to respond to. Many will be Feeling The Bern very soon You will be supporting Bernie if he prevails in the primary yes ?

[LesterT]

265. Hmm.

That's a hell of a lot of bitterness towards a candidate running for the nomination of the Democratic Party. Your choice I guess.

[greyl]

266. Wrong answer. nt

[Cha]

41. NO Excuses!

[oasis]

110. Was it Jane Sanders who said on election eve, "The important thing

is that we voted, not who we voted for"?

Please help, my mind's kinda fuzzy on this.

[Cha]

119. So helpful in the most important election of our lives

at that point in history..

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=208372

[oasis]

135. Not much of a ringing endorsement of Hillary from the camp

whose leader emphatically stated he would do all that was in his power to "keep Trump out of the White House".

Mahalo for the link Cha.

[Cha]

142. Yeah..

he "said"..

You're welcome, oasis

[radical noodle]

52. Did you even watch the convention...

let alone everything else that went on? He did everything he could to undermine her candidacy, even after she had the delegates to win.

[Gothmog]

199. I was there

You are correct. The convention was not fun

[radical noodle]

238. It was disgraceful!

I wasn't there, but I remember the things you told us about it and of course, watched much of it on TV.

[Gothmog]

333. It was not a fun experience

The Clinton campaign was so busy dealing with stunts and protests that they were prevented from using the convention from getting Clinton’s message out

[Thekaspervote]

64. He should have supported her like Hillary did for Obama in 08

He did nothing to bring his supporters around to voting for her..didn’t campaign for her.

His appearance at the convention and how he handled was disgusting!!

[Gothmog]

335. Agreed

Link to tweet

[tymorial]

19. My wife listened to the interview today in bits and pieces

She said it was really great and Hillary stayed in the studio for over 2 hours. I'm looking forward to listening to it tomorrow.

[Cha]

32. Good to know.. thanks, tymorial!

[Gothmog]

42. I want to watch this interview

[sobenji]

79. I listened all morning

Sitting at my desk doing SQL stuff.

Fascinating interview. Over 2 hours, no commercials by an interviewer that loves Hillary and was very knowledgeable.

HS is the best interviewer in the business.

[TidalWave46]

29. I'm with her! NT

[ritapria]

30. Hillary's remark was harmless

Both sides had reason to be disappointed with the other ……. Time to move on

[samnsara]

37. me too...

[Gothmog]

39. I was a delegate to the National Convention

I saw what happen and I agree with Hillary Clinton

[mcar]

92. Your stories of what happened are chilling, Gothmog

I recall you saying that your daughter was harassed by Bernie supporters. This is not how it should be.

[Gothmog]

200. The conduct of the sanders delegates at the convention hurt the Clinton general election effort

I really doubt that sanders will be the nominee. To win the nomination, sanders needs to win the support of Clinton supporters which had not happened and I doubt will happen. So far sanders has held onto about 50% of his support from last cycle and that is not enough to win the nomination.

[JoeOtterbein]

43. Why is Hillary still re-hashing the last election?

She needs to be positive about all our Dem 2020 candidates.

[Cha]

45. Hillary was asked a question by Stern and told

the truth.

[JoeOtterbein]

53. Hillary is still fighting the last election. We don't even want DUers to keep it up.

She should use the time to show her support for any winning Dem, including Bernie instead. Just like we all do here at DU.

[Cha]

62. Hillary tells it like it is when asked a question by Stern.

[Kurt V.]

76. +1

[sweetloukillbot]

187. If she posts her complaints here you can alert on them...

[MrsCoffee]

217. Fuck that. She should do whatever the fuck she wants.

You don’t get to control that. She is a thousand times smarter than anyone here.

Deal with it.

[MrsCoffee]

312. Lol.

What is the point of all the shade Bernie throws at Democrats everyday? He has said some vile things about Hillary, including saying she wasn’t qualified to be president. He has said some vile things about the Democratic party as a whole. The so called unity tour was a joke. His surrogates are armed with wedges and sledgehammers.

But Hillary dare speak out about it and SHE is the one causing irreparable harm?

Do you guys even listen to yourselves?

Hillary is shining the lights right where they need to be.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

50. Would be nice!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[redqueen]

67. Good question. nt

[Thekaspervote]

70. Because he's making the same noises this time! Says he doesn't know if he will support EW if

She were to win the nomination.

EW was an ardent bernie supporter in the senate when no one else would...how can he say that??!!

[redqueen]

75. When did he say that? Source? nt

[JoeOtterbein]

96. +1

[MrsCoffee]

218. Not sure about Bernie, but of course some of his supporters say that.

https://www.newsweek.com/elizabeth-warren-bernie-sanders-2020-trump-election-polls-1464669

More stupid Bernie or bust crap.

[mcar]

95. She shouldn't have answered the question?

Would that be OK with your daughter? I believe she's a reporter. If an interview subject refused to answer a pertinent question, should your daughter just say, OK, no problem?

I didn't learn that in my journalism classes.

[JoeOtterbein]

100. Hillary should have made a positive statement about all our candidates instead.

Would have been easy.

[mcar]

102. Why?

The question was specific to the 2016 election. She answered it. She is correct. There is something to be learned here, that I fear some candidates haven't figured out.

She is a stateswoman who cares about her country. Her job isn't to whitewash what happened - it easily could happen again.

[JoeOtterbein]

109. It's not my job to "whitewash" her statement.

[MrsCoffee]

240. It's not her job to whitewash his behavior.

She called him out for exactly who he is. Just like Tulsi.

Good on her.

[mcar]

123. ...

You said:

100. Hillary should have made a positive statement about all our candidates instead.

Would have been easy.

Then:

109. It's not my job to "whitewash" her statement.

[StarfishSaver]

111. Hillary thanks you for the mansplanation, but

[MrsCoffee]

220. Some just can't stand not being able to silence her.

It’s gross.

[JoeOtterbein]

241. No! She has more voice than you and I ever will.

No one will ever silence me! I don't think anyone will silence her either.

[LanternWaste]

242. "Maybe. But that is pure speculation."

(good for geese, ganders, and hacks you see)

[JoeOtterbein]

246. True. Thanks!

From the beginning I was correct. It was all pure speculation.

[MrsCoffee]

247. Telling her what she should say with that voice is the same as trying to silence her.

In fact there was even an stfu in this very thread.

It's all so very gross.

[Gothmog]

334. Here is a good reason

Russia was succesful in using sanders in last election. Russia and Putin will be busy in this election

Link to tweet

[Mike Nelson]

44. How weird...

... the headline... Why wouldn't she still be disappointed? If she was disappointed, she was disappointed. How can that change to be pleased... or however one wants to say not disappointed?

I saw another link on Facebook and thought the interview with Hillary was great - and I don't usually like Stern.

I think Bernie wants to either win or get enough delegates to command - same as last time. He probably won't be quick to drop out or endorse.

[NurseJackie]

46. Things like that reveal more about the endorser than the endorsee, no matter who he (or she) may be.

[liberal N proud]

55. Beyond disappointed

[Darwin2019]

58. Yes, Sanders' slow begrudging endorsement is why Sander is still on my S---List

very belated.

[mcar]

68. She is 100% correct

I'm glad she's pointing this out.

[Kurt V.]

69. this really pisses me off. not to mention her utter lack of cognition about what happened

with the Russian crap. i never thought I'd say it but Hillary stfu.

[redqueen]

78. Lack of cognition?

She IS aware, isn't she?

[Kurt V.]

81. no. not if she is blaming sanders for her lose.

[StevieM]

98. I don't blame Sanders, the Russians or Hillary.

How can people be so blind to what James Comey did? He dominated that election from start to finish.

And he completely destroyed her candidacy. Take Comey's antics out of the equation and she would have destroyed Trump.

[Cha]

148. It was a combination.. how can

you not see that?

And, Hillary told the truth.

[StevieM]

165. I don't disagree that she told the truth.

I am saying that Comey blew away all other factors in that election.

[BannonsLiver]

286. Her "lose"?

LMAO

[Cha]

94. Aren't you a big deal.. telling "Hillary to stfu"..

You don't know what you're talking about.. Hillary was asked a question about BS.. not the fucking Russians.

[Kurt V.]

289. I'm a bit partial to sanders so i might have been harsh. but a howard stern interview? lol.

[StarfishSaver]

116. Did you just tell our most recent Democratic nominee to STFU?

And accuse her of an "utter lack of cognition about what happened" in HER race?

It's too bad she's not as cognizant and worthy of expressing an opinion as you are.

Wow.

Just wow.

[Cha]

125. Why yes he did.. he must be so proud of himself. Only

it's not Hillary who has ".. an utter lack of cognition about what happened"".

[Kurt V.]

290. i don't do cult of personality. how many times i gotta say this?

i really respect the mountain of shit she's withstood over the decades. Doesn't mean she's always right

[betsuni]

122. "her utter lack of cognition about what happened with the Russian crap"

What does this mean?

[TwilightZone]

124. What on earth are you talking about?

Hillary is quite aware of the "Russian crap". So aware that she brought it up in the 2016 debates, warning the country about what Trump was doing before most people had any clue.

I guess you missed that and the numerous times that she's brought it up since the election.

[mcar]

160. Away with your STFU

She's a private citizen who can say whatever the Fck she pleases. She's also a respected stateswoman who served her country with dignity. How dare anyone tell her to STFU. I mostly see that from RWers so I'm surprised to see it here.

[MrsCoffee]

221. There it is. "STFU".

You guys can’t make her shut up and that just sticks in your craw.

Tough.

[quickesst]

93. so thick you could cut it with a knife...

..... The resentment in this faux-Democrat's "endorsement" of Clinton was palpable.

[betsuni]

107. It will happen again.

Late endorsement. Will have to suggest his supporters get behind the same political system and Democratic nominee that he has assured them are corrupt.

"Clinton's unqualified endorsement of Obama was an immeasurable help in uniting the party. In contrast, weeks after Clinton had officially secured the majority of pledged delegates (on June 7), Sanders was still delivering his stump speech ... . Strikingly absent was an endorsement of Clinton. Instead, he emphasized 'the significant differences between him and Hillary on VERY, VERY important issues' (emphasis Bernie's) and called on his supporters to continue his 'revolution': 'We need new blood in the political process, and you are that new blood.' Those of us expecting an endorsement were not only angry, but insulted. Many of us considered ourselves political progressives, yet to Sanders we were apparently just old, stale blood, clogging the veins of the revolution, agents of a corrupt 'establishment.' And when he spoke of taking the party back for 'working people' and young people and out of the hands of rich donors I wondered -- not for the first time -- how the hundreds of thousands of African-Americans who supported Clinton fit in. Did he think they all owned Bentleys or were simply too old to matter?

"When he finally endorsed Hillary on July 12, speaking to a crowd in which many of his supporters jeered her name and held signs saying 'Won't Vote Hillary,' he looked grumpy and grudging and devoted most of his speech to congratulating himself and his followers on the 'fight to create a government which represents all of us and not just the one percent ...' . ... It was not exactly a rousing call, designed to energize his supporters and redirect their passion toward Clinton. While Clinton had focused her endorsement for Obama on his accomplishments and abilities, Sanders returned once again to his own campaign, citing the impressive attendance at his rallies ... ."

Susan Bordo, "The Destruction of Hillary Clinton"

[Celerity]

161. his external supporters and paid goons will try and do it again, all the signs are there

I see ZERO reason to trust a bunch of Democratic Party (OUR PARTY) haters and ex Stein/Russian shills (Bernie hired guns Sortoa and Briahna Joy Gray as perfect examples) to not do anything but that. The shite is already popping up here for months.

Link to tweet

[Joe941]

134. Quick complaining and living in the past.

[Cha]

146. Hillary was asked a question by Stern and told the TRUTH..

too bad some can't deal.

[aikoaiko]

149. Stop refighting the 2016 primary, Hillary.

[oasis]

173. Hillary was commenting on the 2016 GENERAL election. nt

[aikoaiko]

175. No, she wanted him to endorse her sooner -- during the primary.

[oasis]

179. "I hope he doesn't do it again to whoever gets the nomination"

That would indicate Hillary was thinking post-primary.

[aikoaiko]

182. If that were true then she should have been fine with Bernie's endorsement

Bernie endorsed Hillary on July 12th
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/13/us/politics/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton.html
https://www.cnn.com/2016/07/11/politics/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders/index.html

The convention, where Hillary became the nominee began on July 25th.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Democratic_National_Convention

[karynnj]

257. He endorsed her before her convention but after all the primaries played out

I think everyone here understands the time frame, but has a differing definition of when the general election starts.

Technically - as in when you could spend primary funds when candidates took funding it started the moment they accepted the nomination at their convention. However, I agree that your saying it was post primary is truer in terms of what the focus was. The idea that the general election starts when they accept the nomination is rooted in a history when that was when you were for sure the nominee. ( The NYC broadcast museum has footage of the JFK 1960 convention - he did not come in as the nominee, it was still up in the air.)

However, I think HRC is wrong that Sanders hurt her. He endorsed her 2 weeks before the convention and held the vast majority of Sanders voters behind her even when the DNC emails were hacked and came out in a weaponized way. Donna Brazille was forced to resign because emails were put out to show the DNC strongly favored HRC. No surprise - and not nefarious. The vast majority of party officials and DNC officials were behind her. Yet, this was a time where his strong speech was needed to keep his supporters from taking the bait.

One sign that this worked is that only about 10% of the Sanders primary voters did not vote for HRC, while about 25% of HRC voters did not vote for Obama. BOTH of them attacked the winner as they ran in the primaries - and, to some degree, it is hard not to say that HRC saying that she AND JOHN McCAIN were ready on day 1 to take a 3 am call, but Obama wasn't is worse than any attack by Sanders on HRC.

[oasis]

260. Thank you for the explanation.

[TwilightZone]

183. No, she wanted him to endorse her after the primary.

She wouldn't have expected him to endorse her while the primary was still ongoing. That makes no sense.

[betsuni]

190. But the last primary election was held on June 14th so the primaries were over.

I looked it up: the primaries were from February 1 to June 14. Bernie didn't endorse until a month later.

[aikoaiko]

193. Sure, but the convention wasn't until 7/25 and he endorsed on 7/12

I would say its the primary season until the convention produces a nominee.

But youre correct the last state primary/caucus even was on 6/12.

He endorsed 28 days later.

[LongtimeAZDem]

281. She wanted him to recognize her victory, the same way he recognized Obama's

In 2008, he recognized that Obama was the nominee when he had the numbers:

As Bernie Sanders and his supporters argue that Hillary Clinton can’t clinch the Democratic nomination on Tuesday – because superdelegates don’t count until the convention – it is worth noting that Sanders endorsed Barack Obama two days after Obama crossed the magic number (pledged + superdelegate), saying he had become Democratic nominee.

And Sanders’ endorsement of Obama came before Clinton had officially exited the 2008 presidential race.

"I plan to play a very active role," Sanders said of endorsing Obama, according to an interview in the June 5, 2008 Burlington Free Press. "I will do everything I can to see that he is elected president."

But the newspaper added, “Sanders said he held off supporting either of the Democrats [Obama or Clinton] because he has made it a custom not to support any Democrat for the presidential nomination until the party had chosen its nominee.”

In ‘08, Sanders Endorsed Obama – Before Clinton Formally Exited Race

I'm not trying to refight the primary; just trying to stick to the truth.

[calimary]

293. Yep. He sat on his ass for a month.

Fueling disunity and division that were raging like wildfires when he could have played such a key role in bringing ALL of us together in a united front to keep the White House. But no. Had to sit things out and pout and waste half the summer.

[MrsCoffee]

222. Do whatever the fuck you want Hillary. You've earned it.

There, fixed that for you.

[aikoaiko]

250. I'm sure picking at old scabs will help us in 2020.

[seaglass]

256. Scabs would assume there was healing. As long as Trump is in office there will be no healing. n/t

[BannonsLiver]

287. Do you know how interviews work?

[BootinUp]

150. He hurt all of us Hillary, thanks for reminding us. nt

[CentralMass]

185. Bernie endorsed her 2 weeks before the convention.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/07/11/politics/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders/index.html

[TwilightZone]

186. She clinched the nomination on June 6th

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/ap-declares-clinton-winner-of-democratic-primary-223972

[honest.abe]

210. Which was way too late.

He was mathematically out of it long before that.

[SidDithers]

211. The primary was effectively over in March...nt

Sid

[MrsCoffee]

223. Way too little too late.

And everyone knows it.

He has quite a reputation as being spiteful and vindictive.

[Devil Child]

194. These are some sour grapes n/t

[JudyM]

197. I hope sanders doesn't respond.

He would be justified speaking some truths about all that but it’d just perpetuate the mess.

[Devil Child]

198. I share your hopes JudyM, nothing good comes from refighting the '16 primaries

Despite the significant justification as you have noted.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

225. Big time. Par for the course though

[democrank]

202. Why on earth would Hillary Clinton want to participate in an interview with Howard Stern?

He and Donald Trump are pretty much equal in their obscene, misogynistic disrespect toward women.

[djg21]

205. Because he has a huge national audience.

And conducts meaningful interviews. She was promoting a book, and may be exploring another run for the Presidency. Either way, it made good sense for her to appear on Stern and humanize herself, which she did very effectively. I don’t agree that Stern is misogynistic. He is at times vulgar, but you have the ability to turn the channel if you are offended. Stern is an entertainer and much of what he does is tongue-in-cheek.

[redqueen]

206. Being able to ignore misogynists doesnt make them magically not misogynistic

A lot of people tell me he's changed. I don't know if that's true. I do know he based his career around humiliating young women.

[George II]

208. I hope people saw the ENTIRE interview this morning or the extended excerpts....

....so they could see the tone of the interview. They'll see that the one snippet excerpted here would be more understandable and less "offensive" than how some have taken it.

Overall it was a GREAT interview.

[MrsCoffee]

226. +1

A great interview and some of these replies here are downright embarrassing for a Democratic website.

[Doodley]

228. If Sanders had given Clinton his immediate and enthusiastic support and urged his supporters to

back her, we wouldn't be living in this Trump nightmare.

[redqueen]

231. Or not. Many of his supporters who voted Trump were republicans.

I doubt many republicans would vote for Hillary even if you paid them.

[Doodley]

234. Oh come on! The margin of victory was less than 2% in six states.

Are you telling me that Sanders has so little influence he couldn't have made any difference?

[redqueen]

236. Hillary had less influence over her McCain voters - so again,

Why the double standard?

[Doodley]

239. The only standard is Democratic candidates should lose gracefully and unequivocally back the winner.

[LongtimeAZDem]

244. This +1

[LongtimeAZDem]

243. Agreed

[booley]

321. No. That would require ignoring the previous 30 years of history

I think too many are forgetting what a polarizing figure Clinton was and continues to be.

Many voters flat out said they voted for Trump precisely because they hated Hillary Clinton.

It doesn't' matter whether she deserved that scorn. Hell part of the problem with honest criticism of the Clintons is first weeding out all the untrue crap.

Sanders didn' t have that problem.
Sure some of this support among Republicans was probably trolling by people who never intended to vote Democrat.

But given how popular he continues to be even among Republicans, how much support he has in red States, it seems fair to say many of those cross over voters were sincere.

In short, the 2016 election was the largest game of "Would You Rather" in human history.

[grossproffit]

237. I'm still fuming over it.

[fleabiscuit]

245. Every time I see or hear about Bernie I puke a little bit in my mouth.

[MrsCoffee]

248. +1 this!

[Cha]

261. I hear ya, flea..

Hopefully it won't be too much longer..

[Hekate]

249. Past is prologue, unless we learn from it. I hope very much that Sanders learned about unity...

To get rid of Trump, ALL our strength is needed!

[NurseJackie]

251. I doubt it.

Sigh.

To get rid of Trump, ALL our strength is needed!

Amen to that!

[underpants]

252. Probably a big factor in Wisconsin

Given that 77,000 votes in 3 states decided the election* Bernie Bros may have been at least a size able part of that

* the media (from the free advertising for him, the email nonsense, and calling it weeks out) was at least 50% of the explanation

[democratisphere]

253. Need to make sure THIS BS doesn't happen again!

[calimary]

255. I am, too. I haven't forgotten, Bernie.

I’m NEVER gonna forget, Bernie. Not EVER.

[Gothmog]

274. Thare are a large number of real democrats who will not forget or forgive

[calimary]

292. I'm only gonna vote for him if I have to.

I took the Indivisible Pledge. Whoever winds up as our nominee gets my vote. Even him. I will do so reluctantly, but so be it.

I won’t run off with some pie-in-the-sky independent and I sure as shit ain’t votin’ for the Orange Turd.

[Gothmog]

308. I will vote for the nominee of the party

I really doubt that sanders will be the nominee

[NYMinute]

259. I'm not 'disappointed'

I am OUTRAGED

[ehrnst]

267. I agree with her assessment, and admire her restraint. (nt)

[booley]

288. he did 17 rallies for her in 10 days, went to states she took for granted

... but sure. It was all Bernie Sanders' fault she lost.

Really wish you guys would make up your minds

One minute Sanders's support isn't necessary or even wanted.
The next you guy are whining about how you lost because you didn't have it. (Even when you did)

Here's an idea.
Hillary Clinton was a poor candidate who ran a bad campaign.

[boston bean]

294. Bernie Sanders was a man who ran a bad campaign who lost and tried to have a brokered convention.

He is hoping for the same again. And his actions and his supporters actions have made it more likely due to the new dnc rules surrounding super delegates.

I got an idea. How about the person who gets the most support/delegates wins. Not the loser, ok. And the loser graciously concedes and quickly gets in line and his supporters in line for the winner.

If it goes a second round at the next convention it will appear even more so that super delegates have chosen our nominee.

The whole idea of this scares the shit out of me and we may just succeed in fucking ourselves over once again.

[StevieM]

295. She took no state for granted.

Last edited Sat Dec 7, 2019, 05:20 PM - Edit history (1)

She advertised and had ground operations in all the battle ground states.

It is true that she didn't have rallies in Wisconsin--it is not true about MI and PA--but that is because she was up by double digits. When Trump finally thought he could win, because of the Comey intervention, the first thing he did was CANCEL an appearance in Wisconsin.

We didn't hear anything about her running a bad campaign during the race, which means you are now making the incredible argument that people were restrained in criticizing her.

She ran a very good campaign, the post-election media narrative notwithstanding. She lost because of James Comey's antics. If you eliminate Comey and Putin from the equation she would have destroyed Trump.

People label her a bad candidate because it brings personal happiness to them to tag her with that label. In reality, her campaign was never seen at the time as being a mistake-riddled disaster like McGovern or Dukakis.

Besides, if she was such a bad candidate then what does it say about Bernie Sanders that he couldn't beat her? Doesn't Bernie have to take any responsibility for his loss?

[booley]

320. Wisconsin

Why did she never go to Wisonsin?

The Democrats wanted her to. They begged her too. Sanders went on her behalf.

But she didn't go.

She did, however, think she would win the state.

She lost because of James Comey's antics. If you eliminate Comey and Putin from the equation she would have destroyed Trump.

She did destroy Trump. beat him by 3 million votes. But we all know that it didn't matter. And we know why it didn't' matter.

Going back to Wisconsin,a bigger problem was voter suppression. Scott Walker had been trying to suppress the vote long before 2016. Every one knew this. But the way a candidate can overcome this is by ramping up the vote. Clinton couldnt' be bothered. Mabe she never took the time to read a news article about Wisconsin. Maybe she didn't' understand what the problem voter suppression was for her. No explanation I can think of puts her in a good light.

I could point to other problems in her campaign. But as you never addressed any of my original points I wanted to focus on this one example.

if she was such a bad candidate then what does it say about Bernie Sanders that he couldn't beat her?

Hmm lets answer with another question.

What doe sit say that a cranky socialist who NO name recognition and by his own account insufficient infrastructure could almost beat an icon int he Democratic party who had been planning this campaign for years?

Indeed if Bernie Sanders had so little support and influence, why have him do so many campaigns stops on her behalf to begin with?

Were Jim Webb or Mike Malloy utilized the same way?
like I said, you guys want it both ways.

[Humanist_Activist]

296. At the high end, maybe 12% of Sanders supporters voted Trump, almost a quarter of Clinton supporters

voted for McCain in 2008.

ON EDIT:

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/24/did-enough-bernie-sanders-supporters-vote-for-trump-to-cost-clinton-the-election/

[Sloumeau]

323. It is true that some Hillary Clinton supporters ended up voting for McCain in 2008

The question to ask is, "Why did they vote for McCain instead of Obama?" and "Who were these voters that switched from Supporting Hillary to Supporting McCain?"

Take a look at the chart entitled "Obama's Across the Board Gains" at the following link:
https://www.pewresearch.org/2008/11/05/inside-obamas-sweeping-victory/

89% of Democrats voted for Obama in 2008, the exact same percentage as voted for John Kerry in 2004. So, if lots of Hillary supporters voted for McCain, I believe that hardly any of them were Democrats.

Obama gained 3 percentage points with both Republicans and independents over 2004, so if all of these Hillary supporters supposedly ran to John McCain, it is difficult to see what happened in the numbers. The only way I could explain a bunch of Hillary supporters voting for McCain while Obama still got great numbers would be if people who usually vote Republican, such as Republican party members and Conservative Independent party members, had dabbled with the idea of voting for Hillary but ultimately decided to vote as they did in 2004. In other words, most of these Hillary to McCain voters had probably voted Republican in 2004 and were just maintaining the status quo. These were probably not Democrats abandoning their party because they didn't get Hillary. These probably were Republicans and Conservative-leaning Independents who for some reason liked Hillary but not Obama. My first thought would be to say that racism caused this. Or maybe there were some Republicans and Conservative Independent voters, especially women voters, who really just wanted a woman to become President. You can almost see the thought process:

"Democrats are putting up a Black Man Instead of a White Woman? Fine, I'll vote Republican as I did last time."

No matter what happened, I sincerely doubt that it was mostly a case of a whole lot of Democrats thumbing their noses at Obama because they didn't get Hillary and then choosing McCain. I also do not think it was a case of Hillary damning Obama with faint praise. Her speech for Obama at the convention gave him tons of support, and there were no walkouts or protests at the 2008 convention like there were at the 2016 convention. The Democrats, all of them, seemed to pretty much accept Obama.

The actual voting numbers do not support Democrats abandoning Obama at all. Instead, the actual voting data supports the idea that people who normally vote Republican decided to once again vote Republican when they saw that the choice was between Obama and McCain...and that sure as heck wasn't Hillary's fault.

[Humanist_Activist]

328. In the the same article I linked, it showed the same pattern, apparently over half the Sanders...

supporters that proceeded to vote for Trump never voted Democratic before and were Republicans beforehand. Probably just trolls attempting to spoil a primary.

[Joe941]

297. It's ironic we arent suppose to relive the 2016 debacle, but...

Even Hillary cant let it go. In actuality its Bernie that has more to complain about. He was railroaded. Just saying.

[Pachamama]

303. So am I...

And I am also still waiting for him to declare that he is a Democrat...

[Chemisse]

307. This is exactly why I am so anti-Bernie this time around, after voting for him in 2016.

He betrayed the Democratic Party with his actions and inactions at the end of the primaries.

Of course I will support him if he is the nominee, but I am hoping it won't come to that.

[LongtimeAZDem]

309. We shouldn't even be in that position; he should not have been allowed to run as a Democrat

[MH1]

310. Exactly. He should have stayed out this time and worked quietly to help

the person he considered the best candidate. Because of his poor handling of the nomination decision in 2016. He is too divisive now, and he brought that on himself.

I also voted for him in the primary in 2016 over Hillary. I was not thrilled with the prospect of giving the GOP a 30 year head start on trashing our nominee, and for other reasons. But once she was the nominee he had a fucking DUTY to all of us and everything good, to help keep Trump OUT of the White House. He blew it and doesn't deserve our support.

He won't be the nominee in 2020, and I am sure he will "help" just as much as he did in 2016.

(if I am wrong and disaster strikes again, I will support the nominee. Even if, God help us all, it is Sanders.)

[Sloumeau]

322. I'm still disappointed as well, Hillary.

If only there were somebody to vote for besides Senator Bernie Sanders...

Wait a minute...

[doc03]

327. I don't think an endorsement by Sanders would have gained her any votes

in PA, Michigan or Wisconsin.

[LongtimeAZDem]

336. If it had come right after the primaries, with a genuine effort to get behind the candidate,

I think it could have done enough to quell the "never Hillary" sentiment. Instead, he just stoked the flames.