Biden: Media, rivals wrong that AOC represents direction of party

[brooklynite]

Axios

Former Vice President Joe Biden told "Axios on HBO" in Iowa that he has shaped the 2020 race, faulting the media and his rivals for thinking Democratic voters are more liberal than the reality.

"You guys got it all wrong about what happened," Biden said in an interview airing Sunday at 6:30 p.m. ET on HBO.

"It's just bad judgment. You all thought that what happened was the party moved extremely to the left after Hillary. AOC was a new party, She's a bright, wonderful person. But where's the party? Come on, man."

Biden disagreed strongly with rivals who think the Democratic Party is hungry for Medicare for All, a top priority for Sens. Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders.

[Cha]

2. Well, he's right but I better

get the

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

3. Joe is stuck in a time warp... the Democratic Party has moved on!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Joe941]

4. Exactly this. If you want to be part of our future get out the way!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

16. Bernie's shown Democrats the light his entire political life & lead the way

on most progressive policy issues that the Democratic Party and, more importantly, the VOTERS have adopted as their own... THAT's the true definition of a leader!!

Just because Joe missed the memo doesn't make that less true... bold progressivism defeats moderate incrementalism every time. Period!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[George II]

38. No he hasn't.

[Aquaria]

39. Oh please.

He’s done no such thing. Hillary was to the left of him on several issues.

Nobody but personality cult members think this way.

[MrsCoffee]

44. No he hasn't.

That’s a bit fanatical.

[awesomerwb1]

81. Hahahaha

This is in line of you claiming Bernie was the healthiest candidate of them all.......and then the dude has a heart attack.

You voted for trump to stick it to "the Establishment" didn't you?

[George II]

89. Suuure he has. And he demonstrates "the light" by making hires like this:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=371783

[uponit7771]

134. n... no, please stop doing this

[George II]

73. Who exactly comprises "our"?

[Loki Liesmith]

6. I ain't moved on.

Bet you’ll find most Dem voters haven’t either.

[George II]

82. I'm the same Democrat I was 40 years ago, as are most of the Democrats I come across daily.

[MBS]

131. Even if he's right, it seems

An unnecessarily divisive comment, emphasizing philosophical differences in the party, and essentially dubbing one wing as less relevant. Not the kind of mindset I’d like to see going into the GE. Our nominees needs to have an inclusive vision. The there were ever any time we need a truly united front, it’s now.

[Dem4Life1102]

8. Yes it has moved on

But not in the direction that you think.

[rainy]

12. True that!!!

[dem4decades]

14. The time warp that's the Electoral college. Win the damn election

Then move the narrative and country. Much like Obama did when he passed the ACA. Without that we wouldn't have won recent elections. Look at Kentucky and Louisiana.

[redqueen]

23. This does deeper than that. This is like that "gateway drug" comment. nt

[JoeDuck]

34. Not a good example

I live in Kentucky and I don't think it is a good example to illustrate your point. Yes, we did elect a Democratic governor, but every other state office went to Republicans. The reason our Democratic candidate won doesn't have much to do with the party moving in any direction. It's just that we had one of the most unpopular Republican governors in the nation. The Republican ran on national issues, while the Democrat focused on issues most relevant to the state. The key to victory lies with the candidates. A very unpopular one is easier to defeat.

[dem4decades]

48. You don't think Kentuckians don't mind voting to protect their healthcare?

[JoeDuck]

142. I'm not sure what you are suggesting.

Kentucky has voted for Republican senators and Presidents for several years now. Most of our Representatives are Republicans. Most of our state offices are held by Republicans. We elected a Democratic governor but the state general assembly is dominated by Republicans. I don't believe the heath care issue is the main driver in how people are voting. When we Democrats began being the party of civil rights, especially when Lyndon Johnson became presidents, many of the people who had been yellow dog Democrats began voting for Republicans. They continued to be registered as Democrats and the Democratic candidates were successful in local races, but they were voting for Republicans. Many swallowed the party line that health care equals Obamacare and Obamacare is bad. They swallowed the line that the Democrats would take away their guns, their babies, and tax them to pay the welfare queens (even though many of them are poor enough that they don't pay income tax and they receive some of the benefits that Democrats continue to fight for).

[The Mouth]

167. I can only imagine how Beto's comments about

AR-15s played there in Kentucky (such a beautiful state, though). The friends I have from there are AVID marksmen.

[The Mouth]

130. "All politics is local"

Thomas P. 'Tip' O'Neil

[JoeDuck]

143. "Local" is confusing in these parts.

I live in the western end of the state of Kentucky. Democrats lead Republicans in voter registration, by a big majority. Most of the local races (county races) are won by people who are registered as Democrats. But most of our state representatives and state senators are Republicans. We cast votes mostly for Republicans for U.S. Representatives, U.S. Senators, and the President.

I believe this "local" phenomenon is a result of the fact that parents and grandparents and great-grandparents were registered as Democrats and voted for Democrats up until the Democrats became the civil rights champions. People continued to vote for Democrats in county elections but for Republicans in all other elections. Many of the people registered as Democrats actually are Republican in political philosophy.

[duforsure]

53. I agree totally

He's lost in time, because he sure isn't up to date on much of anything . His age is showing badly now.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

146. Propensity to lose one's temper is a sure sign.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[George II]

69. "Joe is stuck in a time warp... the Democratic Party has moved on?" Have you seen the Democrats...

...who won their seats in 2018 to flip the House? Almost all of them are "centrist" Democrats.

[Locrian]

88. even obama campaigned on "hope and change".... joe, not so much -n/t

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

148. Yeah, status quo isn't going to excite the base... why, fortunately, Joe won't get the nomination.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[redstateblues]

155. The nominee will not be a Democratic Socialist

Take that to the bank

[MarcA]

121. The Party hasn't moved "extremely" left. That's an illusion propagated

by reactionaries in the party who don't like it when we don't move to the right.

[Tipperary]

141. Has he always said "man" this often?

I do not seem to remember that. It sounds odd to hear him use it so much.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

149. Odd indeed! But, that's Joe these days... endearing to some.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[George II]

169. He's been using that for years, if not decades.

[janterry]

201. +1000

and if we nominate a back to the past candidate, we shouldn't be surprised if we can't get the attention or enthusiasm we need to win.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

205. We're not going to nominate Joe... I have confidence in the Democrat Party

that it has moved passed status quo politics and is looking to the future.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Otto Lidenbrock]

5. Just shows twitter is not real life

As he said, AOC is a bright person but the justice democrats wing of the party has yet to win over a seat not as blue as the ocean. I remember when AOC and Bernie went to campaign in Kansas for Sharice Davids primary opponent. Great starpower surrogates. But Sharice won by almost five percentage points nevertheless.

[Cha]

9. Exactly and that's not all..

Link to tweet

[oldsoftie]

19. Yeah, she's a superstar all right. Just dont endorse me!

People arent looking at WHERE the 40 seats were gained, are they?

[Kahuna7]

40. My man Gus. He's one of my favorite tweeple. nt

[Cha]

41. Good to know, Kahuna.. I don't recall

seeing him before but obviously he's straight up.. tells it like it is.

[Kahuna7]

42. He's definitely, no malarkey!

He's a boomer. He just straight up calls it like he sees it.

[Anon-C]

60. I think I have one more; Ammar Campa-Najjar.

I voted for him, wish he won. A guilty, corrupt Duncan Hunter still sits in office. But I did feel that had we a more moderate candidate, we may have defeated Duncan Hunter outright.

[redqueen]

25. Is it only justice Dems who want M4A? Or is it most Americans?

Is M4A not a goal because it's bad, or is it a sensible goal?

[Otto Lidenbrock]

31. The dems who switched seats from red to blue in 2018 mostly ran on defending the ACA

[redqueen]

37. I get that. But does that mean the entire party is moving in the direction of those areas?

It seems what people are saying is that the entire party is moving in the direction of the least progressive areas - and I do not believe that is the case

[Otto Lidenbrock]

45. I think a decade from now we will be on that path

But as of now the electorate is still dominated by older voters and that's the reality to face. A lot of older democrats are more conservative. Not necessarily because they're stuck in time from an era where there was such a thing as conservative democrats in congress, but because jobs and industries which New York and California can take liberty with, has been the lifeblood of their districts for generations. Then there is the fact older voters, particularly in the south, tend to be more religious and preach politics from the pulpit.

[redqueen]

71. So the party is moving in the direction of AOC.

That's how I read it.

[Demsrule86]

106. We are always going to have to appeal to a variety of voters...extremes on the right and the left

are not where the country as a whole is...and we have the EC which gives conservative states the power to have a say...Democrats have to play the hand we are dealt...you think red states are moving in the direction of AOC...I don't. Hell she is facing a primary...and not just one candidate either...always a sign that some think she may be vulnerable.

[redqueen]

107. Not red states - PEOPLE.

This is simply a fact. Demographics have shown this clear trend for over a decade and it's hardly surprising considering how far right this party has moved.

[Demsrule86]

179. We have to or we will never have senate majority...we must compete in red and purple states. I

think the GOP has moved to far right and if we run on health care (ACA + public option), infrastructure (roads suck everywhere) and education (most parents care about school). The only way we ever had a solid majority was when we had senators from Iowa, Louisiana,Georgia etc...we will either appeal to everyone or we won't ever get judges. No senate now then no judges.

[George II]

85. They also campaigned against Lacy Clay and Gretchen Whitmer in Missouri and Michigan....

Both their candidates lost the primary and both Clay and Whitmer won their general elections.

The best tally of their endorsee successes is Justice Democrats' record so far - they've endorsed 79 candidates, 7 have won (less than 9%), and of those 7 three were already incumbents and one ran unopposed. So they essentially "flipped" 3 of 79 seats.

[Demsrule86]

180. Justice Democrats take money from the GOP and our revolution has supported independents and

said they would support Republicans...fuck them all.

[George II]

182. Their endorsement pages have been removed from their website. On the other hand....

....their sister organization, Brand New Congress (same group of founders) endorsed a republican for Congress in Arkansas, Robb Ryerse:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brand_New_Congress

[Cha]

7. And No, Joe Biden is Not "stuck in a time warp"

More Voters prefer strengthening ACA and building on it.

The 2018 Blue Wave Midterms proved that.. the Dems that flipped the red seats to Blue campaigned on ACA.. Healthcare.

[ProfessorPlum]

10. With friends like this, who needs enemas?

Come on, Joe - America desperately needs a new spirit like FDR to put into place regulations on our financial institutions, to redistribute wealth so that money can flow and improve the economy, and to guarantee health care for every person within our borders, regardless of wealth level, status, or race.

The fact that all of the people you interact with in DC don't understand that just shows how bought and paid for the entire place is.

[Cha]

13. Biden is right.. whether you want to look

at the facts on the ground or not.

We want to beat to trump.. that's how we move FORWARD.

[rainy]

15. Exactly!!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

17. BOOOOOOOOMMM!!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[oldsoftie]

20. Except that its not possible using the funding plans proposed.

NO credible expert thinks we can raise an ADDITIONAL 3 trillion a year solely focusing on "rich people".

And millions of people dont like being told that they dont like their current healthcare plans; whether they think they do or not!

BEAT TRUMP. Promising the moon isnt whats going to do it

[still_one]

26. The 2018 midterms seem to verify that the point that Joe was making, that the Ocasio-Cortez faction

of the Democratic party, are NOT necessarily the voice of most Democrats:

https://www.vox.com/2018/11/7/18071700/progressive-democrats-house-midterm-elections-2018

[oldsoftie]

33. Definitely.

[redqueen]

96. That's not what he said - he said "direction of the party" - and he is wrong.

[still_one]

114. Your opinion is that he is wrong. Perhaps your opinion is wrong. Is that possible?

It is an opinion.

[redqueen]

116. Are you saying you think the constant shift to the right

is something that we should be not only accepting, but enabling?

I'm sure REPUBLICANS don't think it's a problem.

[still_one]

117. It is YOU who are saying th Democratic party is shifting to the right, NOT ME. You are the one who

says things such as this:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=372106

excuse me if I don't wish to continue to pursue this dialog with you, and your implied insinuations of what I am thinking, and who I am "enabling"

[redqueen]

119. It is established fact.

Not sure where the confusion is coming from.

[The Valley Below]

139. BS.

[redqueen]

145. You haven't even been here a month. The vast majority of DU seems to see things differently.

Bye.

[The Valley Below]

150. Sorry to be in the mainstream liberal majority

That seems to offend you.

[redqueen]

151. You're really not. Why don't you talk about how dangerous the devil weed is some more.

BYE

[The Valley Below]

163. Heavy marijuana smoking by teens shows serious negative impacts

on their brains (risking 6% permanent loss in IQ), on short-term memory, on cognitive functioning, and those things undermine learning and academic success.

It is strongly linked with reduced life satisfaction and achievement.

It is hard for young people to learn when they have induced a cognitive disfunction by consuming THC.

Be real. We have a major crisis brewing in the schools here. Concerned educators are ringing alarm bells. They have never seen such high use by students during the school day, nor the related academic problems due to THC consumption (almost always via vape). Often flavored with kid's stuff flavors.

The disastrous implementation of CA's legalization of recreational use has lead to a wild-west in the weed trade, where the illegal side of the business dwarfs the taxed and regulated side of the market.

Many of the illegal businesses, especially delivery services, sell to kids. Easy as pie.

I hope other states have more success in decriminalizing/legalizing adult use, while doing a far better job protecting our youth.

Conditions here are a disaster. Yet that's being ignored. Tell the truth and people scream "reefer madness!"

If one is in CA, check in with your local school. Heavy marijuana consumption by teens is a vast and serious problem and the consequences are mounting and many will likely be life-long impediments.

That's the truth of the matter.

[questionseverything]

206. no one is suggesting that mj be made legal for children...i do not know why you keep implying it

by your logic since alcohol is bad for children we should make it illegal

[The Valley Below]

207. No. The problem is that CA's legalization scheme has not worked to stop sales to minors.

In fact, it is just the opposite.

Any minor here can call a delivery service, via apps like Weedmaps, and have a vape pen delivered to them immediately. No questions asked.

The illegal industry dwarfs the legal-regulated one. Enforcement is near zero.

And because illegal sales abound, and students are getting vape pens that can be used discretely, THC consumption by students on school campuses is skyrocketing.

And that's having very bad consequences of precisely the sort one would expect with kids being high while in school.

It is a massive problem and one that's largely being ignored in the press. Those who speak up are accused of "reefer madness."

We have a serious problem. It is real. And lives are being negatively impacted.

[questionseverything]

208. cali screwed up by making legal weed so expensive that illegal weed is stil available but

if teens can call and get weed delivered ,no questions asked with zero enforcement that sounds like a cop problem to me...and honestly I don't believe you


but I get your candidate thinks its a gateway drug and so you have to come up with bizarre stories np

[The Valley Below]

209. Don't believe me if that's your choice, but I'm telling the straight truth.

Delivery services that openly work off of Weedmaps--but have no permits and are outside the law--will typically sell to minors. The kids know who will and who won't.

Illegal dispensaries are everywhere. Almost zero enforcement.

This isn't "made up," it is reality.

Even the legal dispensaries are screaming, because their businesses are getting killed by illegal shops and delivery services undercutting their prices (because they pay not permit fees or taxes).

The negative repercussions in the schools will be a problem we will struggle with for a long time. Too many people have their heads in the sand. Damn shame.

[Hortensis]

144. This is classic RW and Russian disinformation directed

at those of weak conviction on the LEFT convince them not to vote.

Red, ALL studies show the Democrats returned to their usual strong liberal orientation some years ago. Your post is 100% wrong.

The version of your 100% wrong that is directed to RW minds is of course that Democrats are radical socialists and that liberalism is a precursor of fascism. (Fascism is archconservative, in case you didn't know.)

Same sources, same lies outrageous enough to be silly only tragically effective. The only difference is which groups of useful idiots they're directed to. They're meant to divide and conquer our democracy, but the version in this OP is meant to specifically divide the Democratic Party.

You should be afraid, btw. I am, every day.

[redqueen]

147. I'm not arguing about this any longer.

Bye.

[Drunken Irishman]

170. I'd remove myself from the argument after that own, too.

[Hortensis]

178. I don't want you to argue. I want you to learn how shockingly,

bizarrely wrong your claim that the Democratic Party is not now as liberal as it ever has been.
It certainly won't take long. Many institutions study the ideologies of the parties, and there's really no excuse for any of us to spread the misinformation created by hostile parties in total ignorance of reality.

Then please, Red, either come back and delete your mistaken statements or amend them to explain why they're wrong so it can be a learning experience for those who believed them. Imo, we all have a duty to do no harm by refusing to spread hostile propaganda.

[redqueen]

186. As far as social issues you have a point. On economic issues we are further to the right.

Believe what you want. I'm done.

[The Valley Below]

153. Bravo!

[janterry]

203. I agree, he is totally out of step

We need a leader who can see the future. Biden can only make out the past

[redqueen]

29. I get not promising the moon. I get that. But Americans WANT M4A.

Not just most Dems, most Americans.

[Demsrule86]

55. They don't not if it means workplace insurance goes away...hubs and I will pay far more than what we

pay for work insurance...and I have no doubt the estimates are too low and we will pay more. Also, I think there is a danger with M4A that we may see some rationing...older folks not getting life saving surgeries or treatmenst...or maybe those on disability or the poor...the GOP will work hard to make that happen...a public option that leads to universal coverage...maybe a better plan for the 21st century is what I prefer...couple this with improvements to the ACA.

[redqueen]

72. I agree that we can't get there all at once.

But saying it's not the goal is what I consider reckless.

Also rationing is a RW talking point.

[exboyfil]

87. Rationing has to happen whatever plan you select

In my mind a payroll tax driven plan with cradle to grave makes the most sense. Part of that is aggressive price negotiation with healthcare suppliers and drug companies. At some point the negotiators may have to walk away from the table. Also how many $1/2 million Medicaid bills are we gong to be able to pay for.

[Demsrule86]

93. So, we let people die? Sorry not on board.

That GOP ...(words not bad enough) Jan Brewer let poor kids die by refusing to cover life saving medical treatment under Medicaid...sorry absolutely a non-starter for me.

[The Valley Below]

154. 87% against.

Math.

[redstateblues]

156. No true. MFA is very unpopular. That's why Warren has backed away from it

[Locrian]

195. but it seems people WANT to ignore that to contiue their identity politics/candidate

[Bettie]

66. I am sick of being told that liberals

don't belong, that our voices don't matter, that the younger people coming up behind us don't matter because they are young and liberal and the boomers and older folks are conservative, but not quite Trump-conservative.

I'm sick to death of hearing that we need to continue to do the one step forward two steps back dance forever because people fear change.

Yeah, I'll vote blue no matter who, but that doesn't mean I'm not frustrated by being told every day that only moderates have a place in this party.

[LongtimeAZDem]

125. And I'm a liberal who is sick of being called a right-winger because I argue for attainable change

We all have our frustrations

[Bettie]

126. "Attainable Change"

what does that even mean? Only take two steps back for each one forward instead of four?

ETA: As long as the little people understand their place and never, ever ask for anything, of course!

[LongtimeAZDem]

127. No, it means actually accomplishing something

[Bettie]

128. So, only ask for what Republicans are willing

to give...which is virtually nothing. But, it will be moderate. Boy howdy, it is totally attainable if you are willing to have no principles.

But, hey, what's a couple of miles backward, right? At least those moderates get to tell the "lefties" to go fuck themselves while telling young people that they do not matter at all. It's a twofer!

[LongtimeAZDem]

129. Nope. Strawman.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

160. You got that right!! Incremental change, while little people go bankrupt or die, that's the ticket!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Demsrule86]

181. Neither will win the general...thus we get no change of any kind... I would say Sanders has

a better chance albeit very small chance...but a chance. We need someone who can win WI, MI and PA...maybe all these woke people should get out and win hearts and minds.

[redstateblues]

157. Thanks for that. Totally agree

[rainy]

11. We are a party afraid to be our true selves because

of money corrupting our entire enterprise.
How campaigns are financed
Corporations writing laws
Corporations foreign and domestic buying politicians
Politicians soliciting money constantly
Private ownership of our airways
Healthcare for profit
Industrial entities allowed to destroy our planet

Money is at the root of all that ails us and it holds all the power.
AOC and the like are the only hope for a better world.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

18. DING DING DING!!! WE HAVA WINNA!!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Demsrule86]

58. I don't really agree. You have to attract all sorts of voters...and AOC doesn't do that.

We need a 50 state strategy.

[rainy]

86. What you say is true as long as money controls the entire enterprise of our government. Until we

are able to fight the corrupt control that corporations and their money have over us we will have to keep the status quo. Look how far right we have migrated. If we go any farther right we will be a dictatorship. So we keep saying republican light or we lose. I say we be brave and vote for the real democrat with real democratic values not corporate, republican light candidates who keep allowing corrupt corporate money to own us and our lives, our work our health our planet.

[Demsrule86]

95. I don't see how money controls ideology...the right sold their

message better than we did...why don't we have talk radio or a tv station like FOX?

[rainy]

115. Fox and right wing radio only exist

because of the monied entities they serve. They lie to control. WE ARE BETTER THAN THAT! However the right keep winning and holding power because their donors benefit from right wing policies. That’s donors, the ones with the most money and power, the wealthy and corporate owners.

[Demsrule86]

183. Well we better do something because until we win...nothing is going to change and everytime

we have a Reagan,Bush or Trump elected we move further right as a country.

[rainy]

191. Power yields nothing without a fight!

It will be hard and sometimes dangerous but I see hope all the time. Ranked Choice Voting is a good prospect. The media were talking about Kamala running out of money and the billionaires running for president but not once did they discuss how obscene it is that so much money is required to run a campaign. What a complete insane way to run for office and it never stops even when you win. So money out of politics is a good place to start.

[redqueen]

21. Extremely disappointing.

We need M4A.

We get told the reason our candidates won't champion it is because middle America, ans because swing voters. Fine. I get that. I get that union members and a few others - I dunno who - actually like paying gobs of money for private insurance. Whatever.

I also know that Congress has a lot to say about it, and we won't have an easy time getting there.

But this is just wrong. Just flat out wrong. Most people want M4A. Not even just most Democrats. Most AMERICANS.

I won't call him a "liar" - but I do wonder why he's saying this when or is demonstrably false.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

43. TRUTH!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

59. What most people want is to expand the ACA by offering a public option.

Medicare-for-all, an issue is on the minds of Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents at the beginning of the 2020 primary season but KFF polling finds more Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents would prefer voting for a candidate who wants to build on the ACA in order to expand coverage and reduce costs rather than replace the ACA with a national Medicare-for-all plan (Figure 14). Additionally, KFF polling has found broader support for more incremental changes to expand the public health insurance program in this country including a government-administered public option (66%) and for proposals that expand the role of public programs like Medicare and Medicaid.

https://www.kff.org/slideshow/public-opinion-on-single-payer-national-health-plans-and-expanding-access-to-medicare-coverage/

[redqueen]

74. No, that's where we are now, because of lobbyists and their accomplices

In Congress and the media.

https://www.gq.com/story/lobbyists-medicare-for-all-op-eds

Our next president needs to be very clear on this or we will NEVER get there.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

90. So what you're really saying is that people have been brainwashed

into wanting an expanded ACA with a public option, but that's not the same thing as actually wanting M4A.

[redqueen]

94. Not brainwashed, misled. Lobbyists have successful in influencing enough people

So that what was once a strong majority supporting M4A is no longer so strong.

Most people understand that the end goal is for people to move off the for-profit model.

That is, in essence, moving in a more progressive direction. Another thing Biden says isn't true.

[redqueen]

164. Can you at least find a poll not funded by Kaiser?

I know public support has waned over the last year, what with lobbyists writing op eds and other consent-manufacturing practices, but come on.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

165. I picked it only because it was the most recent one, but here's another, done in September

by NBC/WSJ. This one includes the actual questions and breaks down the answers and the MOE. Go to page 11, second question from the bottom. Total support among registered voters for M4A is 41%, total opposition is 56%. The MOE for all registered voters is 3.27%. https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6426498/19357-NBCWSJ-September-Registered-Voter-Poll-Final.pdf

[redqueen]

166. Thanks. I do know that the media onslaught has been effective.

And I get the realpolitik reasons for not going full bore M4A right out of the gate.

My issue with what he said is the messaging. He can defend his plan without feeding the industry spin. He needs to, for all our sakes.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

161. And that's no malarkey!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[still_one]

22. All one has to do is look at the midterms, where it was the "so-called" moderate DEMOCRATS who

captured the day:

https://www.vox.com/2018/11/7/18071700/progressive-democrats-house-midterm-elections-2018

[Cha]

30. Progressive Democrats running in competitive House districts had a bad night on Tuesday

When all was said and done, 2018 was not the year of the winning progressive Democrat.
Moderate Democratic candidates were the big winners of swing congressional districts in the 2018 midterm elections, flipping most of the 28 key House districts from Republicans’ control and winning key gubernatorial races, including Michigan, Wisconsin, Kansas, and Illinois. Democrats’ net gain in the House was 26 seats.

Mahalo, still_one!

Link to tweet

We Want to WIN!

[still_one]

35. Appreciate the specifics Cha +++

[redqueen]

36. Yes. Just because the industry has been working with its friends in Congress

and fhe press to muddy the waters, that does not change the fact that it is the best way to provide healthcare insurance and it's what we should work toward.

I get not wanting to push too quickly and give more skittish Americans a reason to vote against us, but twisting the facts - which is effectively helping to support the industry lies is extremely harmful.

https://www.gq.com/story/lobbyists-medicare-for-all-op-eds

[Demsrule86]

64. Well we can't fix anything unless we win elections.

[redqueen]

78. I agree - I agree M4A can't be the initial goal - but it MUST BE the long term goal.

I'm reading Biden's comments as saying it's not - and that is not right.

[Demsrule86]

97. Not M4A...how about a new plan that fits this country...some sort of universal coverage.

[Cha]

24. WE ARE A PARTY DETERMINED to BEAT trump..

and the Majority of the Voters Don't want mfa.

See how we won in Kentucky and Louisiana.. as well as the BLUE WAVE MIDTERMS.

[IndyOp]

27. Pete understands the urgency of the climate crisis in comparison to

Joe. Pete puts democratic reform as his number one priority because without reform we can’t implement policy and expect it to last. Climate is next - so much good can be done for so many peo0le by implementing the Green New Deal.

[Demsrule86]

98. Joe was the first to address the climate and has actually passed legislation...what exactly has

Pete accomplished in this area...as they say...'talk is cheap'.

[CousinIT]

32. I love Warren and Sanders. But I agree with Joe.

Most Dems are not gonna vote to give up their health insurance for M4A - no matter how much sense it makes in the end. That's reality. I love the M4A idea. I love the billionaire surtax. I love the Green New Deal.

But do we have enough bold progressive voters to beat Trump with those ideas? That's the question and I believe the reality is, we don't - esp M4A as much as I personally want that.

All that said, you bet your sweet bippy that if Warren or Sanders are the nominee they'll have my unreserved vote. I love their ideas.

But I think Joe suits the Dem voters nationwide.

Can I back that up scientifically with numbers and charts and all?

Nope.

It's just an initial opinion based on what I see and hear. It could change at any moment.

[RelativelyJones]

46. Joe's 100% correct.

[myohmy2]

47. I think Joe's wrong...

"...faulting the media and his rivals for thinking Democratic voters are more liberal than the reality."

...we'll see in a few months when primary voting begins...

...IMO, most general voters today are apolitical and hard to be defined in historic Left/Right terms...they pay closer attention to politics around elections but don't dig much deeper than most sound bites...

...personally, I think most people don't care that much for politics as they go about their daily lives...they find politics tedious and boring...

...today, something being historically Left or Right is open to most voter's consideration if it's perceived as pragmatic and solves an entrenched problem...

...and he who controls that perception will win...

[Cha]

49. I think you're wrong.

[Gothmog]

50. I agree with Joe Biden on this

[Demsrule86]

51. He is right...AOC can only win in a very blue blue district...doubt she would win a statewide race

even in New York. Just look at the Senate. It shows how hard it is to win. We won the House with moderates not those who are similar to AOC. I hope that changes one day, but it will take hard work in red and purple states...not just running for safe Democratic seats.

[dchill]

52. He said that out loud.

[MineralMan]

54. The party has both factions as members.

We need both groups. We regained a majority in the House by replacing some Republicans with moderate Democrats. We also need the very progressive people on our side.

Some people are very hungry for M4A. Others are more concerned with making sure we don't lose the ACA. Both groups are Democrats. There's not a chance we'll get M4A in the next four years, so we're going to have to save the ACA for now. Trump has done his best to destroy it.

We're all on the same side, but have different approaches to accomplishing goals. We need everyone.

[Demsrule86]

56. Yes, we have always won with a big tent approach...Dean was very successful with a 50

state strategy. It is the only way we win. Look at the Senate...it is not possible to win the senate without moderate to conservative states sending Democratic Senators to Congress.

[MineralMan]

63. There are a lot of inexperienced people out there who have

a limited view of the political realities in this country. Yes, AOC won her seat, but in a deeply blue district and because the incumbent Democrat wasn't paying attention. I like her. I think she probably represents the future. However, most places aren't like AOC's district. Most states aren't dominated by a place like NYC.

Unless we win back control of the White House and both houses of Congress, we aren't going to get much done. And winning both of those things is going to come only if we replace some Republicans in the Senate with Democrats who can actually win in those states. AOC would lose in every last one of them.

We have to form and support a coalition, or we'll continue to lose to Republicans. We've seen what that means. We're in a desperate race for 2020, and we'll either stand together or lose. I suggest we do the former. Really.

[Demsrule86]

70. I agree...we must stand together and accept diverse views...the Democratic party is

cat like in some ways...you know what they say about herding cats...

[MineralMan]

76. I don't have as much energy as I once did.

I'm going to have to rely on people to do what is best in the 2020 election. I hope they make the right choices.

[Demsrule86]

100. So...true. And I am optimistic...this primary is certainly not as bad as the

one before from what I see.

[MineralMan]

101. We'll see. Right now, there are too many candidates, so there can't

be a true leader in the primaries yet. That will end by or after Super Tuesday, leaving probably four candidates who continue. That's when it will start getting nasty, I think. How nasty? I don't know.

[Demsrule86]

105. I am hoping Biden wins decisively...and we have a nominee sooner rather than later.

[MineralMan]

120. Yes, Political Realities.

Read my post again. Show me where I'm factually wrong.

Keep in mind who is President right now.

[MineralMan]

123. OK. So what's your plan?

You realize that we're coming up on yet another round of elections, right? We're going to choose our legislators and President in the same way we've always done. You appear to believe that there is some other way to do that. I'd be interested in hearing how you think we will do it.

You realize that the United States operates under the Constitution, right? Unless that changes, we will continue to do things as we have in the past. there will be elections next year, and then two and four years after that, and so on and so on.

So, please tell me your plan to change that. I'm all ears.

[Fiendish Thingy]

57. Joe is whistling past the graveyard.

This may be the last election where Boomers outnumber young voters.

Once young voters get organized (thanks AOC) and realize their full force of their power, they will be in charge.

[Demsrule86]

61. What makes you think younger voters support AOC?

[comradebillyboy]

124. I don't see AOC as a bridge builder who can put any sort of winning

coalition together. She came to DC with the message that moderate Democrats must be purged from the party. Her attacks on fellow Democratic House members created so much hostility that she had to fire her chief of staff to calm things down. She's made a lot more enemies than friends. So I certainly don't see her as a leader of a party to which she shows so much hostility.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

135. Yes... and that's no malarkey!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[LongtimeAZDem]

62. He's right, as the 2018 elections demonstrated

[Politicub]

65. The party has moved on. The electoral college swing states have moved little.

We are held hostage by conservative states whose voters have more power than the liberal voters. If the Democratic Party were to vote as a national bloc, this country would be better in so many ways. The GOP would need to adapt, too.

But that’s not the playing field on which the election is held. I can’t do anything about it, but I do understand it. I don’t have to like it, though.

[vsrazdem]

67. In my opinion we cannot keep the status quo. Whoever is elected needs to make some major

changes. If they don't I fear the Democrats will never win another election, not that people won't vote for them, but just that people won't vote.

[Gothmog]

68. Joe Biden- If we move too far left, we will lose to Trump

Link to tweet

[Baked Potato]

75. VP Biden is right

The country is going to stay centrist.

[ritapria]

77. We need Young people to show up in droves and organize

We need New Voters . We need to render The Green Party irrelevant . They received over 1 million votes in 2016 .. We need Obama-Trump voters to return to the fold in 2020 . We need a huge turnout amongst POC .

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

83. Young people don't turn out in droves.

They tweet instead.

[lunasun]

188. OK

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/05/29/gen-z-millennials-and-gen-x-outvoted-older-generations-in-2018-midterms/

[The Valley Below]

79. I'm with Joe.

The future of the party includes a strong embrace of liberalism and liberal democracy.

AnD a ReJeCtIon Of PoPuLiSm AnD "dEMoCrAtIc SoCiaLiSm."

The latter is a bad path.

A liberal party then. A liberal party now. A liberal party forever!

[democratisphere]

80. Totally agree with Joe Biden.

The largest group of voters is to the left and right of center. Far left and far right will never be the "majority". Most people are reasonable and sensible and not extreme.

[beachbumbob]

84. Democrats are center left and what works in liberal areas

falls flat in Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania and would take Texas off the board, Florida,

Biden as correct as sanders/Warren/AOC are wrong

[highplainsdem]

91. Biden's right.

[JoeOtterbein]

92. Come on Man!!!

AOC seems like more of a pro than Joe!

[redqueen]

99. The party is now so far right that Nixon's positions are more liberal than many Dems.

Yet Joe sends the message that we're not only not moving left, but that most don't want to.

This is just outrageous, honestly.

[JoeOtterbein]

102. I'm worried!

We need to be clear in our convictions. Not re-fighting the 2018 election like Joe seems to be doing!

[The Valley Below]

103. We are as clear as can be. We support liberal democracy.

Not that OtHeR tHiNg.

[JoeOtterbein]

108. You mean the GOP talking point about Bernie being a (get your fainting couch under you)...

...A Democratic Socialist?

We hear that false equivalence, all the time on Fox. No biggy with being clear on that one!

[The Valley Below]

109. Are you calling the self-description by BS of himself a Republican talking point?

Seems weird man.

And don't ever try to equate me with FOX or the right. Ever! That's a fucking insult.

[JoeOtterbein]

110. Both can be true: Bernie's description of himself can be easily made into a false...

...talking point that there is something wrong with it.

Fox does it all the time. And please don't take it so personally. Lots of people unconsciously repeat Fox smears without knowing it.

[The Valley Below]

111. You seem to be the only one of us two who watches FOX.

BS's description of himself is a true talking point. He chose how to describe his ideological position. You can't lay that off on anyone else.

Stop trying to smear me with lies. It is deeply offensive!

[JoeOtterbein]

112. Sorry! But this is the Primaries. It gets rough sometimes.

I can't get Fox on my cheap cable plan. But I hear the smears all the time on TV in places in SC-PA where I live.

Please don't be offended. It's ok to fight hard. There is literally nothing you can say that can hurt me. So fire away!

[The Valley Below]

113. There is no good excuse for you making personal insults Joe.

What you are suggesting about me is nothing but damned lies.

If you goal is to alienate liberal Democrats, keep it up up.

You are not "fighting hard." You are making dishonest smears.

Not cool. At all.

[redstateblues]

159. Ain't that the truth. Sad that it's the MO of some on this site

[redstateblues]

158. Sorry Joe. The moniker that Bernie has chosen is a millstone

Around his neck. There are people in my family that would vote for Biden that will never vote for a Democratic Socialist. That may suck but it’s reality

[redstateblues]

187. Whistling passed the graveyard

Running as a Socialist is not a plus. Sorry

[JoeOtterbein]

190. Let me know how you feel when we all celebrate President Sanders' election!

Take care and have fun tonight!

[redstateblues]

200. Bernie could win the General but his problem is

He can’t win the Primary. His support is much weaker than when he came in second to Hillary.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

189. You're not the only one who's worried Joe!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Drunken Irishman]

171. Ah yes. Nixon's so progressive positions...

Like Nixon's so liberal position on abortion that, in most instances, it should be banned, except, you know, to quote Mr. Progressive Yang Gang Hero Richard Nixon, "There are times when an abortion is necessary. I know that. When you have a black and a white."

Gosh! If only Joe Biden could be so progressive as to support abortion in instances of mixed-race children!

And then, of course, there's Nixon's famous progressive Southern Strategy, which has been the foundation for the GOP's racist politics now for 40+ years.

Of course, can't forget the far-left policy of Richard Nixon's war on drugs, which still impacts society even today. So blessed.

Gosh. I wish Democrats acted more like Richard Nixon!

[still_one]

172. Facts and reality get in the way for some people

[redqueen]

173. LMFAO - I'll pass on replying to your bait or your insults.

Richard Nixon, hero of the American Left
He's justifiably reviled by historians, but Nixon's politics were far more progressive than we give him credit

https://www.salon.com/2013/05/05/i_was_a_nixon_junkie_defending_the_20th_centurys_most_misunderstood_president_partner/

[Drunken Irishman]

174. Nothing progressive about Nixon's racist stances.

But hey, if you want progressives to adopt his racist rhetoric and political strategy, good for you. Nixon was the first GOPer who laid the foundation of hate that dominates the party today but hey he's hero of the left! Give me a fucking break.

[The Valley Below]

176. No kidding.

I remember Nixon. He was a prick.

Not a "progressive."

[redqueen]

185. Reductio ad absurdum.

You know very well I'm not insinuating any of that.

And you can try to smear me by using salon's title but that just makes you look even more ridiculous.

Try harder, seriously. Those tactics may work with a small subset od DUers, but mostly not

[Drunken Irishman]

193. You said today's Democrats were way to the right of Nixon.

Bullshit.

[redqueen]

194. lol no I didn't

You're really something else

[Drunken Irishman]

196. lol now you lying...

To quote you:

The party is now so far right that Nixon's positions are more liberal than many Dems.

Nixon's positions are more liberal than many Dems you said lol

[redqueen]

197. Yeah - read that again - I said POSITIONS

not POLITICIANS.

You can't seem to understand nuance. Good luck with that

[Drunken Irishman]

198. lol nice save.

A politician is their positions. What a silly destination. Name one politician who isn't defined by their position? If you're claiming their positions are to the right of Nixon, you're claiming they're to the right of Nixon lol

[redqueen]

199. That is ridiculous. Positions change over time. Or they should.

Is Biden still in favor of "late-term abortion" bans? I sincerely hope not.

[Drunken Irishman]

204. Stop backtracking...

No Democrat running for president today has a majority of their positions that are to the right of Nixon. Your argument is as baseless as your silly defense of it. Just admit you were wrong with the blanket accusation.

[The Valley Below]

175. Thanks for de-bunking the BS.

[TwilightZone]

104. Moderate Dems made almost all of the gains in 2018.

But, hey, let's just ignore that in the interests of bashing one of our candidates.

[ProfessorPlum]

133. is that in overall numbers, or as a percentage?

Because I'd be willing to bet that many more moderate Democrats ran than progressives (or were "allowed" to run)

[Scurrilous]

136. Biden's right. And he's pushing back against GOP ratfuckery.

Axelrod: Trump "Forcing" Democrats To Embrace AOC's Squad, Accept They Run The Party ( July 18, 2019)

<snip>

"CNN contributor, Democratic operative, and former Obama campaign strategist David Axelrod called President Trump a "self-hating America hater" in reaction to his treatment of Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) and the three other progressive freshmen in the House. Axelrod said Wednesday night on CNN that Trump thinks he can sway suburban voters in his efforts to conflate socialism and the Democratic party.

"He thinks that he is going to influence these suburban voters by persuading them that the Democratic party is too far left. But in going as far as he's gone and he will go he may persuade them that we can't take four more years of this," Axelrod said.

"The thing is, he is repeating the pattern of his political, brief political career which is he throws these incendiary things out to divide in a way that he thinks will be useful to him politically," he said.

"He wants to elevate these four young members of Congress to make them the emblem of the Democratic party and he wants to be so outrageous about it that he forces all Democrats to embrace them, to support the argument that they are the iconic figures in the party and in the bargain, he riles up his base with nativist language," Axelrod said to host Anderson Cooper. "The irony, Peter Baker wrote a great piece in the 'Times' today about how ironic it is that the president who was deeply critical of the country even in his inaugural address and who said we're not any different than Russia in the way we approach human rights."

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/07/18/axelrod_trump_forcing_democrats_to_embrace_aocs_squad_accept_they_run_the_party.html

[maximusveritas]

137. It was only natural that some in the party moved to the left in reaction to Trump

One extreme usually brings about an equal and opposite extreme.
When it comes down to voting though, I think the majority of people will be smart and pragmatic and realize we need to choose the candidate who can put together a winning coalition in battleground states.

[The Valley Below]

140. It is what Susan Sarandon hoped for when she ratfucked our party.

That people would move to the extremes.

The old "Hitler First, Then Us" strategy that played out so well in the 1930s

[oasis]

138. If the MSM would listen to Joe they just might learn something.

Joe knows what makes the Dem Party tick.

[Gothmog]

152. I agree with Joe

[Garrett78]

168. That's not useful rhetoric. It's divisive and way too simplistic.

That will only feed into the right wing and MSM narrative that the Democratic Party is the one that's becoming too radical, that it's the Democratic Party that has made a drastic shift. How many times do we have to hear "too far left" without ever hearing "too far right" before we wake the fuck up and counter that asinine narrative? At the very least, can we please not promote that bogus narrative? God damn we suck at messaging.

The Democratic Party is a big tent party, not the monolith that the Republican Party is, and Biden's rhetoric does a disservice. It's incredibly simplistic to suggest the party is this or that, or at this place or that place.

[doc03]

177. AOC won't gain any votes for us in PA, Michigan or Wisconsin. nt

[Turbineguy]

184. Even if she doesn't

she's wonderful, incredibly clever and a natural and we should listen to her.

[R B Garr]

192. Joe is right. Thank goodness for his honesty.

[redstateblues]

202. Joe is right about this