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George II

(67,782 posts)
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 04:22 PM Dec 2019

Elizabeth Warren Tells Poor Parents to Fix Their Own Schools

The National Education Association, the most implacably anti-reform of the two major national teachers’ unions, has released a series of candidate interviews. Senator Elizabeth Warren, making her case for NEA support, notes her role in opposing a 2016 ballot initiative to expand charter schools in Boston.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It is inconvenient for Warren that she happens to represent a state with the most effective charter sector in the country, given the fact that she’s running for president and one of the most influential interest groups in her party opposes charters everywhere. Even more inconveniently, Massachusetts had a ballot initiative in 2016 to lift the cap on charter attendance in Boston schools. (The previous time the cap had been lifted, charters proved they could replicate and expand on their success, and proved operators were asking to open schools.) This spurred Warren, who had previously supported charter schools, to reverse herself.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

But what about the low-income parents who wanted better schools for their children? Here is where Warren’s answer goes from obtuse to almost cruel:

“I had a lot of folks visit my office and say, ‘I love my charter school,’” Warren said in the video about constituents who wanted her to support expanding the charter cap. My question always was, ‘If you don’t like your public school, what’s going to happen to the rest of the children who are there?’ Because we don’t have an obligation to just a handful of our children. We have an obligation to all of our children.”

“If you think your public school is not working, then go help your public school. Go help get more resources for it. Volunteer at your public schools. Help get the teachers and school bus drivers and cafeteria workers and the custodial staff and the support staff, help get them some support so they can do the work that needs to be done. You don’t like the building? You think it’s old and decaying? Then get out there and push to get a new one.”



http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/12/elizabeth-warren-charter-schools-unions-parents-choice-education.html?utm_campaign=nym&utm_medium=s1&utm_source=fb
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44 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Elizabeth Warren Tells Poor Parents to Fix Their Own Schools (Original Post) George II Dec 2019 OP
Nonsense. She's telling them to get involved in their schools SharonClark Dec 2019 #1
As my Mom used to say DownriverDem Dec 2019 #3
Yes, she's not proposing it as a complete answer, but Hortensis Dec 2019 #43
Not good DownriverDem Dec 2019 #2
Agreed squirecam Dec 2019 #8
Oh no a charter school shill has a sad that a candidate isn't following their line nt liskddksil Dec 2019 #4
Shame on her for advocating that parents get involved to make Autumn Dec 2019 #5
She is wrong squirecam Dec 2019 #6
I disagree, schools are about parental involvement and to beachbumbob Dec 2019 #12
Oh sure. Low income parents have all the time in the world to volunteer and become activists. emmaverybo Dec 2019 #27
It's not actually her job - at least not completely StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #22
If she squirecam Dec 2019 #23
Free college for everyone is a program for higher education. It's not related to elementary and StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #24
Right squirecam Dec 2019 #25
I'd like to see investment on all the failing, broken, underfunded and at-risk social programs emmaverybo Dec 2019 #28
Agreed squirecam Dec 2019 #29
That's pretty tone deaf of her. MineralMan Dec 2019 #7
Exactly squirecam Dec 2019 #13
Yes you are wrong jcgoldie Dec 2019 #31
Yeah. You're about as wrong as it's possible to be. kcr Dec 2019 #35
That's not my point at all. MineralMan Dec 2019 #37
What makes you think charter schools don't require it? kcr Dec 2019 #42
Betsy DeVos would love this thread BeyondGeography Dec 2019 #9
Really disappointing to see BlueMTexpat Dec 2019 #10
There's a lot of money in charter schools. badhair77 Dec 2019 #11
we're better than resorting to clickbait headlines Otto Lidenbrock Dec 2019 #14
Yes squirecam Dec 2019 #15
Are you a single parent? ChubbyStar Dec 2019 #16
Your assumptions are wrong squirecam Dec 2019 #17
You simply don't see the irony of you saying that, do you? LanternWaste Dec 2019 #44
a 2nd generation principle came into a failing school in milwaukee + now its above the standard. pansypoo53219 Dec 2019 #18
Chait's spouse, Robin Chait, is an analyst and pro-charter school advocate at WestEd.[24] BeckyDem Dec 2019 #19
Disagree squirecam Dec 2019 #20
Charter schools take money from schools that can't select their students. Blue_true Dec 2019 #21
That's a very misleading title to this post. LisaM Dec 2019 #26
This is bullshit jcgoldie Dec 2019 #30
What sort of hit job is this crazytown Dec 2019 #32
This is rich dsc Dec 2019 #33
I miss the days when twisted right wing attacks were't allowed here. kcr Dec 2019 #34
Warren's clearly saying that we don't fix public schools by giving up and... Garrett78 Dec 2019 #36
Post removed Post removed Dec 2019 #38
You're accusing me of being a "Biden or Bernie bot"? George II Dec 2019 #40
Chicago Public Schools got fixed by angry black mothers and fathers. Pot holes get fixed by those .. marble falls Dec 2019 #39
I sit here, white, retired and privilileged my entire life, never having to take action against the CTyankee Dec 2019 #41
 

SharonClark

(10,005 posts)
1. Nonsense. She's telling them to get involved in their schools
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 04:45 PM
Dec 2019

and Jonathan Chait is in the bag for charter schools.

from Wiki, "Chait's spouse, Robin Chait, is an analyst and pro-charter school advocate at WestEd.[24] Chait has written extensively in support of charter schools.[25] [26] On January 14, 2019, Chait accused Senator Elizabeth Warren of selling out to "powerful interests" for her opposition to an initiative which would have expanded the number of charter schools in Massachusetts.[27]

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DownriverDem

(6,206 posts)
3. As my Mom used to say
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 04:47 PM
Dec 2019

It's not what you say, but how you say it.

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Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
43. Yes, she's not proposing it as a complete answer, but
Mon Dec 9, 2019, 04:29 AM
Dec 2019

as something they can (and should) do, at any time, not just when charter schools are creating a 90% left behind. I put the should in parentheses because when districts have a dynamic person like Warren involved things happen. When no leader arises from among the concerned parents they don't. Warren did not create the charter school situation, and she knows that lower-income black communities at least have plenty of dynamic, hard-working people. They're not shiftless and they're not helpless.

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DownriverDem

(6,206 posts)
2. Not good
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 04:46 PM
Dec 2019

Poor folks are doing all they can to maintain.

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liskddksil

(2,753 posts)
4. Oh no a charter school shill has a sad that a candidate isn't following their line nt
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 04:48 PM
Dec 2019
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Autumn

(44,762 posts)
5. Shame on her for advocating that parents get involved to make
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 04:49 PM
Dec 2019

public schools work better and improve the schools by pushing for the needs of the schools and the employees.

Some charter school's require parents to volunteer a certain number of hours. Some, like one here expect the parents make big donations.

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
6. She is wrong
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 04:53 PM
Dec 2019

It’s not their job to fix the public school. It’s *her* job.

Before we spend billions on new free college, we should spend the $ to fix the poor schools we already have that are failing.

That was a poor answer by her.

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beachbumbob

(9,263 posts)
12. I disagree, schools are about parental involvement and to
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 05:49 PM
Dec 2019

see such excuses is a shame, I agree 100% with Warren.

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emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
27. Oh sure. Low income parents have all the time in the world to volunteer and become activists.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 11:27 PM
Dec 2019

I think her response ill-considered. I don’t believe it even sounds like her.

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StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
22. It's not actually her job - at least not completely
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 10:26 PM
Dec 2019

While the federal government plays a role in schools, it's the states and localities that are largely responsible for them.

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squirecam

(2,706 posts)
23. If she
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 10:55 PM
Dec 2019

Is going to spend $ for free college for everyone, is her participation limited to cutting the check? Or being involved in the rules and regulations of the program?

Schools in poor neighborhoods are failing. They need more $ and more help. It is unrealistic to expect parents to be able to get public schools more $. The problem has been getting worse over the years, not better.

Money needs to be given to our failing public schools and aid for HBC first. There is no reason to give free college away to families that can afford it while the free public education we already have has too many problems.

If I were to vote in a presidential
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StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
24. Free college for everyone is a program for higher education. It's not related to elementary and
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 11:01 PM
Dec 2019

secondary education, so the money for the program wouldn't give a U.S. Senator any oversight of the rules and regulations of local schools.

I'm not saying I agree with what Warren said or how she said it. I'm simply pointing out that she probably doesn't have the kind of control over local schools that you seem to think she does.

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squirecam

(2,706 posts)
25. Right
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 11:10 PM
Dec 2019

But my point is that she should forget spending on college for all, and spend the $ on the public education we already have that needs it. Along with new regulations to go with the funding.

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emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
28. I'd like to see investment on all the failing, broken, underfunded and at-risk social programs
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 11:42 PM
Dec 2019

and systems we have currently rather than new bureaucracy and spending. Priority should be on what needs fixing now and the strong infusion of money that will take, from infrastructure to protecting social security through improving our schools, even our EMS system. Also, please get in power first and .build consensus for plans.

If I were to vote in a presidential
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MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
7. That's pretty tone deaf of her.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 04:54 PM
Dec 2019

Most public school parents work all day. They can't "volunteer" at their children's schools. They can't force the local school district to make needed changes or build new buildings.

Sounds like advice from a person of privilege to me. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

If I were to vote in a presidential
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jcgoldie

(11,584 posts)
31. Yes you are wrong
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 01:17 AM
Dec 2019

And your response is as ridiculous as the op.

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kcr

(15,300 posts)
35. Yeah. You're about as wrong as it's possible to be.
Sun Dec 8, 2019, 04:41 AM
Dec 2019

I think it's more privileged and elitist to think working families are too stupid to understand how important public schools and unions are. What the hell is happening to DU.

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MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
37. That's not my point at all.
Sun Dec 8, 2019, 10:53 AM
Dec 2019

The families are not stupid. They just can't do what she suggests, in most cases. They don't have the spare time required to show up and volunteer at their kids' public schools.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

kcr

(15,300 posts)
42. What makes you think charter schools don't require it?
Sun Dec 8, 2019, 08:15 PM
Dec 2019

Warren was suggesting no such thing. She was making the point that weakening public schools will only harm the children left behind. THe parents who can't put the time in won't get their kids in those schools. The charters won't let them in. Do you think advocating for charter schools doesn't take time? The OP twisted her meaning.

If I were to vote in a presidential
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BeyondGeography

(39,284 posts)
9. Betsy DeVos would love this thread
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 04:59 PM
Dec 2019

Nice job.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

BlueMTexpat

(15,349 posts)
10. Really disappointing to see
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 05:02 PM
Dec 2019

you helping the charter school advocates smear EW, George!

I thought better of you.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

badhair77

(4,191 posts)
11. There's a lot of money in charter schools.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 05:15 PM
Dec 2019

Not all, but some online ones are run by companies that provide the testing programs for state assessments, everything from the prep materials, the test itself and remedial materials. Add in textbooks and it’s a monopoly. Then the staff consists of teachers whose pay is not comparable to those in brick and mortar schools but whose executive and administrative salaries and bonuses far outshine those in brick and mortar districts. Then there are perks like travel and expenses. A acquaintance retired from his executive position but continued on as a consultant and the paychecks kept coming. His bonus, a policy he established, provided a new heated in-ground pool with a nice pool house. All paid by the taxpayers.

Not all charters are equal. Some do a good job and are financially sound and responsible. Others not so good. They should all have oversight and that’s not always happening. I’m betting the ones associated with Betsy DeVos are pretty shady.

I’ve strayed a bit it still comes back to involvement. It looks like Warren is advocating participation and oversight.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Otto Lidenbrock

(581 posts)
14. we're better than resorting to clickbait headlines
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 06:01 PM
Dec 2019

come on folks

“If you think your public school is not working, then go help your public school. Go help get more resources for it. Volunteer at your public schools. Help get the teachers and school bus drivers and cafeteria workers and the custodial staff and the support staff, help get them some support so they can do the work that needs to be done. You don’t like the building? You think it’s old and decaying? Then get out there and push to get a new one.”

that to me clearly sounds like a rallying cry for activism in getting leaders to pay attention and do their jobs. public pressure is an important aspect of holding people in power accountable.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
15. Yes
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 06:37 PM
Dec 2019

Because “go help your public school” to a single parent working two jobs is a great plan!

At best it’s tone deaf elitism.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ChubbyStar

(3,191 posts)
16. Are you a single parent?
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 06:41 PM
Dec 2019

I am, and I have volunteered and pushed for change. With your support of Bloomberg in many posts this morning I think you sound like an elitist not Warren. Just saying.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
17. Your assumptions are wrong
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 06:54 PM
Dec 2019

And where have I supported Bloomberg? Tell me where I support his candidacy, or what he said.

Because I’ve said repeatedly that he was wrong.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
44. You simply don't see the irony of you saying that, do you?
Mon Dec 9, 2019, 01:13 PM
Dec 2019

Click-bait headlines, indeed...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pansypoo53219

(20,906 posts)
18. a 2nd generation principle came into a failing school in milwaukee + now its above the standard.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 07:58 PM
Dec 2019

yes. IMPROVE public schools. IMPROVE FUNDING.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
19. Chait's spouse, Robin Chait, is an analyst and pro-charter school advocate at WestEd.[24]
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 08:03 PM
Dec 2019
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Chait

Another neoliberal with bad ideas.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
20. Disagree
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 08:42 PM
Dec 2019

It’s a bad idea to tell hardworking poor people they are on their own to fix bad schools.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
21. Charter schools take money from schools that can't select their students.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 10:10 PM
Dec 2019

You're dead wrong on this attack George. Warren took a correct stance, improve schools that HAVE to accept any kid that comes to their door, not divert public money to schools that select kids that have supportive and motivated relatives backing their education.

You seem ok with warehousing kids who are unlucky enough to have parents that don't really care if they get a sound education, or who send their kids to school to be babysat.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LisaM

(27,762 posts)
26. That's a very misleading title to this post.
Fri Dec 6, 2019, 11:21 PM
Dec 2019

I think you should fix it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
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jcgoldie

(11,584 posts)
30. This is bullshit
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 01:15 AM
Dec 2019

Terrible premise and terrible post George. I sort of thought Democrats favored public education.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
32. What sort of hit job is this
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 03:02 AM
Dec 2019

replete with click bait headline? Nice OP George

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

dsc

(52,130 posts)
33. This is rich
Sat Dec 7, 2019, 08:17 AM
Dec 2019

given that charter schools are notorious for requiring parents to volunteer at the school.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/pembroke-pines/fl-reg-pines-volunteer-hours-20180227-story.html

I admit I can't find any of Massachusetts charter schools requiring this, but there are a whole bunch that have been doing so.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-charters-parents/charter-schools-put-parents-to-the-test-idUSBRE91E0HR20130215

My favorite part of the story linked above

Pacific Collegiate School, a top-ranked charter in Santa Cruz, California, requires parents to sign a “Commitment to Excellence” acknowledging that the school will ask for a $3,000 donation and push for 100 percent compliance. In Arizona, the Great Hearts Academy network asks parents at most of its charter schools - all but the two campuses with the greatest concentration of low-income families - for $1,500 donations.

Administrators at both schools said they make clear contributions are voluntary, as required by state law.

They’re not voluntary, however, at Cambridge Lakes Charter School in Pingree Grove, Illinois. Families pay registration fees of $210 to $225 per student; on top of that, the parent handbook informs them they must invest in Northern Kane Educational Corp., which built the school, or risk losing their child’s seat. The minimum investment is $120 a year - or families can pay $5,000 for a lifetime stake.

Northern Kane CEO Larry Fuhrer said the requirement was put into place at the request of investors who backed the school’s bonds. He acknowledged it could be a “minor barrier” to enrollment, but said: “That’s the nature of the free market.”

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-charter-schools-volunteer-20141120-story.html

Scores of California charter schools require parents to volunteer as a condition for their child’s enrollment in violation of state law, according to a report by a civil rights organization.

Public Advocates, a California nonprofit law firm and advocacy group, surveyed about half of the state’s 1,100 charter schools, and found that about a third of those required parents to work at the school in return for their child’s enrollment. Some forced parents to pay fees in lieu of working.

In Los Angeles, the group found that parents at Academia Moderna in Walnut Park, which is overseen by the Los Angeles Unified School District, must volunteer 20 hours per family, and that those who fail to fulfill that requirement could be at risk of losing their child’s spot the following year.

end of all quotes


Again, it is really rich to see Mr. Chait, whose wife makes her living from these fraud factories, excoriate Senator Warren for suggesting what these schools literally require. Charter schools get to selected their students (at least at the back end by expelling those that don't perform), get to require parents to volunteer, and still often do no better than the public schools in their area.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

kcr

(15,300 posts)
34. I miss the days when twisted right wing attacks were't allowed here.
Sun Dec 8, 2019, 04:37 AM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
36. Warren's clearly saying that we don't fix public schools by giving up and...
Sun Dec 8, 2019, 05:59 AM
Dec 2019

...having kids move to charter schools instead. She's saying it's better to advocate for improvements to public schools, and she's not saying the federal government doesn't have a role to play in supporting public schools. She's simply encouraging grassroots involvement.

The author of the piece is attacking her for not wanting to give up on public schools in favor of charter schools (while spinning that as an act of cruelty).

And people in this thread seem to be attacking her for saying something she didn't say.

Seems like par for the course.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

Response to George II (Original post)

 

George II

(67,782 posts)
40. You're accusing me of being a "Biden or Bernie bot"?
Sun Dec 8, 2019, 12:17 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

marble falls

(56,359 posts)
39. Chicago Public Schools got fixed by angry black mothers and fathers. Pot holes get fixed by those ..
Sun Dec 8, 2019, 12:15 PM
Dec 2019

same people, as well as getting new crosswalks and stop lights or garbage removal and vacant lot clearing.

The implication that the poor just sit there and take it doing nothing is wrong and wrong minded. It implies a complacency to bad circumstances that just is not true.

The only thing they lack is access to the money to get it done faster.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

CTyankee

(63,771 posts)
41. I sit here, white, retired and privilileged my entire life, never having to take action against the
Sun Dec 8, 2019, 01:04 PM
Dec 2019

system that makes our inner city schools so broken. And they work long hours at low paying jobs and yet they still address truth to power. I am in awe of these women and men who do this. What I can do is support candidates that support them and their children, not criticize them for what "I think" they should be doing and are not.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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