I'm worried about this Hunter Biden thing.

[RDANGELO]

I don't think Joe Biden did anything wrong, but I am worried that Giuliani is going to get these former Ukrainian officials to make things up. He is getting money from somewhere, possibly the Russians. Is he using that to bribe them? The Republicans are ruthless, they don't care if it's true or not, as long as it can be believed. Maybe the best thing that could happen is that Rudy gets indicted soon and gets thrown in jail.

With Hunter Biden working for Burisma, you have the appearance of a conflict of interest which they a can build on, and that makes if more believable than something that is completely made up.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Wasn't this posted before?

And no, I'm not worried.

[dewsgirl]

19. Deja vu. I know I saw it too.

[redstateblues]

2. Your concern is duly noted

[MineralMan]

3. Many people I don't recognize seem concerned about this.

Odd, I think...

[RDANGELO]

4. I've been on this board since the early 1990S

[MineralMan]

6. Well, that IS a long time.

However, that doesn't mean that I recognize you.

[jcgoldie]

7. the early 1990s...

Shit you are Al Gore aren't you?!?

[Lochloosa]

9. Uh. No you weren't.

The website was launched on January 20th, 2001

[RDANGELO]

12. Ok I'm mistaken.

It was in the early days.

[Sloumeau]

14. Click on your nickname/avatar of RDANGELO and it should show you the following:

Member since: 2003 before July 6th

Sixteen years is long enough. You don't have to be here since the 1990s.

[Cha]

65. "..But yeah, let's talk about Hunter Biden some more... "

Link to tweet

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212763616

[Cha]

66. Oh and this.. what I've been saying..

Berke took less than two minutes to lay out the case against Trump. The reason why the Russia investigation playbook has failed Trump this time is that there is direct evidence of the president’s scheme. Witnesses have come forward, and there is an easy story to tell.

Donald Trump abused his power to pressure a foreign country to interfere on his behalf in the 2020 election, and that’s why he deserves to be impeached.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212764184#top

[TexasTowelie]

10. That's interesting.

My understanding from other long-term members is that DU didn't begin until 2001 as a response to George W. Bush stealing the election. The copyright date at the bottom of the page also shows copyright 2001-2019.

[jcgoldie]

13. Oh baloney!

I joined up in the 50s... the technology was cutting edge! I think Skinner actually began DU during the Revolutionary War when the redcoats were seizing our airfields.

[TexasTowelie]

15. LOL.

The word "pixel" wasn't coined until 1965. Tell me about the download speed.

[jcgoldie]

18. Well I'll tell you

...the download speeds were so slow that Mom would send us a private message right here on DU that dinner was ready then she'd go bottle feed the calf... feed it out for 14 months, castrate it, butcher and hang the meat up, then cook the roast over an open fire pit and it would be done and on the table just as we were getting the message... true story!

[TexasTowelie]

20. Veal cutlets for dinner!

Those were the days.

[Demsrule86]

25. hahahah...Funny stuff.

[Lochloosa]

28. Your thinking of FR.

[greatauntoftriplets]

54. I joined in 1066.

You wouldn't believe the flame wars we had when Henry VIII was king.

[Indykatie]

11. Hmm. Why don't I believe you? You Might Want to Consider Supporting DU if You've Been Here That Long

[IronLionZion]

34. You've been on this board since 2003

So have I.

DU started in 2001 so there's no way you've "been on this board since the early 1990S"

[tblue37]

52. ?? I thought TH was founded in response to W's election in 2000. nt

[LAS14]

43. Let's call this "the swift boat/e-mails" strategy and let's talk about it...

... without accusing people of pushing right wing messages. We have to come up with a way to combat this kind of attack, and, at this point, I haven't a bird of an idea. If you didn't see the CNN special "All the President's Lies," try to find it. They spent a good bit of time talking about how a lie gains credibility merely by repetition. EVEN IF THE REPETITION IS IN SERVICE OF DEBUNKING THE LIE.

Has anyone heard of a possible strategy?

I don't think Biden's tendency to "fight back" is a particularly good one. I think Kerry's and Hillary's attempts to keep their cool were better, but, in the end, I don't think any of their strategies worked.

[MineralMan]

46. Just Express your scepticism when you see it.

Use humor or sarcasm to demonstrate that you recognize the tactic.

[highplainsdem]

5. Your concern is noted.

[Eliot Rosewater]

58. And there you have it, someone posts this statement and the

usual group shows up to BASH the Biden's even if in a very left handed way.

Say goodbye to your house, your car and maybe your family if they are not white.

Because if this SHIT keeps up putin will win again. I just hope I am alive when this happens, it will be time to stop posting, stop talking, and start DOING SOMETHING!

[JoeOtterbein]

8. K n R ! Thanks for posting!

...and for the opportunity to add my fears!

[Eliot Rosewater]

59. Fears? I am confused, you want Bernie to win, why wouldnt you WANT the

Biden's to be taken down, even though the take down would be based on FALSE information.

But I would think YOU would LOVE that, am I wrong?

[JoeOtterbein]

61. I don't understand why you assume my motives.

Why would you think, that I think any particular idea at all, let alone what my fears are? It seems to me, you already answered your own question about what I "think"?

[LanternWaste]

62. The observation of consistency is not as difficult as you seem to imagine/pretend.

"I don't understand why you assume my motives."

The objective observation of consistency in a narrative/agenda is not as difficult as you seem to pretend, regardless of the plausible deniability we sometimes set in place and cower behind.

[JoeOtterbein]

63. Sorry, but my fears are very fluid, as are my thoughts. I plan to vote for the Dem...

...who wins the election. So my mind is open to the thoughts of others during the Primaries. I may decide to support another candidate instead of Bernie. Perhaps the same candidate you may choose. And it is my prerogative to keep an open mind throughout the Primaries. Then, I will fight for our nominee and not give in an inch to the Trump/GOP because I consider them traitors and evil. On that my mind is made up.

Before PA's Primary election in May, I choose to remain open minded.

[beastie boy]

16. If you mean what you say, you should be worried about Giuliani

compromising himself with the Russian money and former Ukrainian officials making shit up.

Nothing you said reflects in any way on Joe or Hunter Biden. It is a fact that Joe did nothing wrong, and it is a fact that Hunter's work for Burisma doesn't create the appearance of impropriety. It is the Russian trolls who are trying desperately to create the appearance of impropriety, and failing miserably at it.

You have nothing to worry about. Sleep tight.

[RDANGELO]

22. At the most, the Democratic Party makes up about 35% of the electorate.

To win the general election, you have to win swing voters. What are swing voters going to believe..

[beastie boy]

23. You are assuming that swing voters are going to believe lies.

I am not at all confident in Giuliani or Trump, both notorious liars, being THAT believable. Unless, of course, the Bidens dignify this fishing expedition with a response that may lend any credibility to their lies. Like taking the two clowns seriously.

[RDANGELO]

24. I'm not assuming anything; I'm just concerned.

[Demsrule86]

26. So you were here when Kerry had the election stolen from him...and some here turned out to

be pugs I guess? I wasn't...but I heard about it...

[Hav]

67. You heard right

I still remember one of those repubs posting garbage yellow press nonsense about Kerry days before the election. Out of concern, I suppose.

[Demsrule86]

68. I was a lurker for years...scared to post...seemed terrifying.

[Demsrule86]

27. your concern is duly noted.

[Cha]

30. This is what Michael McFaul has to say about it..

Link to tweet

[LAS14]

44. Let's call this "the swift boat/e-mails" strategy and let's talk about it...

... without accusing people of pushing right wing messages (not that you did, exactly).

We have to come up with a way to combat this kind of attack, and, at this point, I haven't a bird of an idea. If you didn't see the CNN special "All the President's Lies," try to find it. They spent a good bit of time talking about how a lie gains credibility merely by repetition. EVEN IF THE REPETITION IS IN SERVICE OF DEBUNKING THE LIE.

Has anyone heard of a possible strategy?

I don't think Biden's tendency to "fight back" is a particularly good one. I think Kerry's and Hillary's attempts to keep their cool were better, but, in the end, I don't think any of their strategies worked.

[beastie boy]

40. Your concern is unfounded. And it plays into and perpetuates the fake narrative

that creates the false perception that Joe or Hunter did something wrong. It dignifies that perception with the attention it doesn't deserve.

[LanternWaste]

50. Maybe some research on your own and then relay to us your findings.

"What are swing voters going to believe..."

Maybe some objective research on your own is in order and then relay to us your findings.

[Cha]

17. There's no there there.. trump was brought up

on Impeachment charges for trying to manufacture DIRT on Joe and Hunter Biden.

Your "worry" is only helping trump. so NO thanks for your concern.

[NYMinute]

21. Sirota wants this posted often nt

[emmaverybo]

29. This is war. The Trump machine and Russian allies are going to make up stuff, out of appearances

and no appearances. No candidate is safe. We just happen to know what he’s pulling about Biden. It’s alL out there and debunked. That dog won’t hunt.

[Cha]

31. Exactly.. don't fall for the gop TRAP.. Michael McFaul..

Link to tweet

[emmaverybo]

36. Another good one on McFaul is his remarking that Biden is the best candidate to lead on national

security and foreign policy.

[Aaron Pereira]

32. No reason to worry, vetting candidates this early is healthy.

Biden will likely face increased scrutiny, face some negative press for a short time and move beyond the issue. I'd be more worried if the issue remained latent until fall of 2020.

[customerserviceguy]

33. Me, too.

It doesn't look too different to most people between Paul Manafort taking oligarch money from Ukraine, and Hunter Biden taking it. That's why I'm undecided, I will vote for either Joe Biden or Pete Buttigieg, whichever one of the two of them looks the most viable nationally on primary day in SC.

[jcmaine72]

35. Sadly, our media loves a good sh*tshow.

Truth or facts be damned.

[The Mouth]

51. The Media exist to sell ads

Shitshows generate eyballs.

A close horserace gets better ratings, which equals more money. They don't have any drama in the Republican primary this time around, so they've got to find it here.

[BannonsLiver]

37. "Worried" means "I really hope this helps my candidate."

[R B Garr]

38. Bernie Sanders had a campaign staffer, Tad Devine,

who took loads of money from Ukraine. He worked with Paul Manafort, a now convicted felon. I’m sure ex Ukrainian officials could have a field day with that former arrangement.

[renate]

39. I honestly am not trying to stir sh-t, but I'm worried too

I wasn’t before today, because CLEARLY there is no excuse for withholding taxpayer money that was allocated by Congress to a country under active attack that we need to keep strong as a matter of our own national security. If that’s not an impeachable offense, nothing is. There are no excuses, extenuating or imaginary, for that. What worries me isn’t Burisma.

But coincidentally today I picked up an old New Yorker from last summer (June or July, before the whistleblower or anything) and there was a huge, detailed article about Hunter Biden. NO EVIDENCE THAT HE DID ANYTHING WRONG, I want to emphasize that, not that it needs saying. But he has a very troubled history, and that is simply a fact. Plus the right is going to obfuscate and make false accusations mixed in with true statements about some of Hunter’s personal and business decisions. They just are. And it won’t be fair, and it won’t have one damn thing to do with Joe’s experience, decency, morality, or intelligence. But the stakes are too high to take any chances just because what the right WILL, without any doubt, do is unfair.

I found out a lot about Hunter that I didn’t know before today. I won’t say it here because this is not an appropriate forum to repeat it, nor is any of it relevant to his father’s ability to be a phenomenal president. But I think we ignore Hunter, in the primaries, at our peril, because this stuff will come out, in a very ugly way, as surely as the sun sets in the west.

[loyalsister]

41. Anyone who paid attention during the 90s should worry

The appearance is enough ammunition to derail a Democratic candidacy, president, and the entire future of the party and every Democratic candidate or office holder. A candidate that hands over reasons for an investigation jeopardizes a lot more than their own chances to win the election.

[LAS14]

45. See my response #42. nt

[LAS14]

42. Let's call this "the swift boat/e-mails" strategy and let's talk about it...

... without accusing people of pushing right wing messages. We have to come up with a way to combat this kind of attack, and, at this point, I haven't a bird of an idea. If you didn't see the CNN special "All the President's Lies," try to find it. They spent a good bit of time talking about how a lie gains credibility merely by repetition. EVEN IF THE REPETITION IS IN SERVICE OF DEBUNKING THE LIE.

Has anyone heard of a possible strategy?

I don't think Biden's tendency to "fight back" is a particularly good one. I think Kerry's and Hillary's attempts to keep their cool were better, but, in the end, I don't think any of their strategies worked.

[Gothmog]

47. This is a completely bogus issue

Link to tweet

[Cha]

48. Right.. the gop is manufacturing this and

those who are "worried" are feeding the bogus machine.

Really disappointing to see anyone sucker by trump breaking the law and brought up on Impeachment charges because of it

Basically getting sucked in by M$M.

[LanternWaste]

49. The front- ans second-runners will always be targeted by idiot GOP concerns.

Regardless of who is the front runner, that candidate will have a sht-load of empty criticisms leveled at them by the GOP.

If not Biden, someone else. If not Burisma, something else. If not conflict-of-interest, another piece of low-hanging fruit will be built upon.

[The Mouth]

53. I'm not

We are on to their game, the long-term slime job.

Maybe Hunter did something the child of an administration member shouldn't have, it has nothing to do with Joe getting out the vote where it counts.

Nothing Hunter has done can compare to the blatant grift of the current clan in the White House

[guillaumeb]

55. So appearance counts for more than reality?

The media loves to promote things like this to add tension to the news.

[exboyfil]

56. I think the Mark Rich pardon was a lot bigger deal

than Hunter doing lawful work for a foreign company.

I think Biden punching back is a good approach. I also think that money should be poured into shaping a narrative buying airtime as much as possible on outlets for voters that can be reached. That was Clinton's mistake with the charity.

[beachbumbob]

57. zero concern for those who pay attention

and those who see GOP as the force of darkness

really doesn;t matter

[ritapria]

60. Im not concerned about the Hunter Biden thing

If we apply purity tests to our candidates , we will not have a candidate to nominate. A person has to be judged on the totality of their life's work - not on their occasional screw ups .

[DarthDem]

64. Posted a Second Time, Eh?

That's okay. I enjoy hitting the trash thread button.

[onetexan]

69. Ahem ahem ahem ahem...about all those polls that came out today

Copying here from Gothmog's posting from this thread: https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287364424

Quinnipiac Biden +12
Monmouth Biden +6
Harris Biden +16
Morning Consult Biden +9
YouGov Biden +6
Quinnipiac Biden +8
CNN Biden +11
Politico Biden +9
SurveyUSA Biden +13

So...what were you worried about now?

Go Joe!!!

[Gothmog]

70. GOP forcing Hunter Biden to testify could 'completely backfire' on them -- here's why

Link to tweet

But as CNN’s Michael Smerconish noted on Saturday, this strategy might not even work.
Enjoy progressive journalism? Help fight right-wing disinformation by supporting Raw Story. Click to learn more.

“This is my theory, pure speculation,” said Smerconish. “I have this vision on the Democratic side of the aisle, some who know Hunter Biden, are sort of rubbing their hands and saying, yeah, yeah, just keep begging for this guy.”

“The Republicans have created such a caricature of him. In other words, they set the bar so low,” continued Smerconish. “And then all of a sudden, Hunter Biden comes in. He’s a handsome guy. He’s articulate. He’s smart. He went to Georgetown, he went to Yale Law. He puts sentences together that are not indicative of having committed anything illicit, other than earning money, perhaps because of the name with which he was bestowed. And Americans say, ‘Oh my god, is that all there is?’ It could completely backfire. It’s one of the intangibles. I don’t know, but I’m paying attention.”

[Gothmog]

71. The long-awaited defense of Hunter Biden

Here are some facts including that the fact that Hunter was a biglaw firm that was advising this company https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/1/5/1907833/-The-long-awaited-defense-of-Hunter-Biden

Following Paradigm, Biden continued working as a lobbyist for several years and was appointed to the board of Amtrak by President George W. Bush. He had also been the vice chairman of the National Railroad Passenger Corporation. He then founded a private equity firm, Rosemont Seneca Partners, in 2009, which later partnered with the Chinese government to form yet another equity firm, called BHR, where he held an unpaid board position. Trump likes to argue that Biden took “tons of money” from China, but again—this position was unpaid.
He ended his lobbying career and left the Amtrak board as his father became vice president, then started another consulting firm in 2008, as noted by Newsweek.

In 2008, Hunter Biden also founded Seneca Global Advisors, a consulting firm that helps companies expand into global markets. His earnings from Rosemont Seneca and Seneca Global Advisors are not publicly available.

Biden then joined the law firm Boies Schiller Flexner, which features superstar lawyer David Boies as its primary partner and chairman. While at Boies Schiller, Biden was involved in advising Burisma, which was a client at the time being personally handled by Biden, who was advising them on corporate reform, according to Hunter Biden’s lawyer, George Mesires:

In April 2014, Hunter was asked to join the board of Burisma, the largest independent natural gas producer in Ukraine. At the time, Hunter was of counsel with Boies Schiller Flexner LLP [fn 1] (“Boies Schiller”), a major U.S. law firm, and was advising Burisma on its corporate reform initiatives, an important aspect of fueling Burisma’s international growth and diversity. Vibrant energy production, particularly natural gas, was central to Ukraine’s independence and to stemming the tide of Vladimir Putin’s attack on the principles of a democratic Europe.

To further its goals of independence, Burisma sought to adopt standards and practices traditionally employed by Western companies. At Hunter’s urging, Boies Schiller engaged Nardello & Co., a leading global investigative firm, to assess, among other things, Burisma’s corporate structure and governance practices. Burisma agreed to pay the legal expenses of Boies Schiller to support Hunter in developing corporate reform initiatives.

Because of Burisma’s stated commitment to corporate best practices, it was able to attract well-qualified board members, including the former president of Poland, Aleksander Kwasniewski, a leading advocate of democratic principles in the region. President Kwasniewski, familiar with Hunter’s work on behalf of Burisma, recommended that Hunter join the board.

Again, this view is consistent that Biden ultimately joined by the board for Burisma Holdings to help it with its efforts regarding “corporate governance,” as noted by Wikipedia.

In the aftermath of the 2014 Ukrainian revolution, Mykola Zlochevsky faced a money laundering investigation,[33][34] and his company Burisma Holdings, the largest natural gas producer in Ukraine,[14] assembled a "high-profile international board" in response.[35][34] Biden, then an attorney with Boies Schiller Flexner, was hired to help Burisma with corporate governance best practices, and a consulting firm in which Biden is a partner was also retained by Burisma.[36][37][38] Chris Heinz, John Kerry's stepson, opposed his partners Devon Archer and Hunter Biden joining the board in 2014 due to the reputational risk.[34] Among those who joined the board of directors in April 2014 were Biden, Archer and former Polish president Aleksander Kwaśniewski.[39] Biden served on the board of Burisma until his term expired in April 2019,[40] receiving compensation of up to $50,000 per month in some months.[37][41]

So it appears that Biden was placed on the board of Burisma as part of its effort to “clean up” its practices after the allegations of money laundering by Zlochevsky, which had previously occurred in 2012. Biden took a pay cut to be on the board compared to what he’d earned as an investment banker, although it may have been an upgrade compared to what he likely earned at Boies Schiller. Biden had nothing to do with the investigation of Zlochevsky and was never investigated himself.

Being on the board of AMTRACK and being with the biglaw firm that was advising this company are sufficient qualifications for Hunter to be appointed on the board.