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Tue Dec 17, 2019, 01:45 PM

 

Bernie Sanders followers do not believe there is a wage gap.

I'm trying to figure out why a whole group of people does not believe that women make less than men. I am reading these comments and in shock! Does anyone know where they get their information or why they believe this? It's not from Bernie.




If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Reply Bernie Sanders followers do not believe there is a wage gap. (Original post)
OldRed2450 Dec 2019 OP
brewens Dec 2019 #1
garybeck Dec 2019 #2
LongtimeAZDem Dec 2019 #4
brooklynite Dec 2019 #5
garybeck Dec 2019 #40
Sloumeau Dec 2019 #3
NYMinute Dec 2019 #6
OldRed2450 Dec 2019 #13
Sloumeau Dec 2019 #15
Name removed Dec 2019 #29
TexasTowelie Dec 2019 #27
nini Dec 2019 #37
George II Dec 2019 #7
MH1 Dec 2019 #30
ehrnst Dec 2019 #33
redqueen Dec 2019 #8
InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2019 #26
Tiggeroshii Dec 2019 #9
OldRed2450 Dec 2019 #11
Lucky Luciano Dec 2019 #14
PatrickforO Dec 2019 #10
OldRed2450 Dec 2019 #12
PatrickforO Dec 2019 #17
LongtimeAZDem Dec 2019 #22
wysimdnwyg Dec 2019 #20
LongtimeAZDem Dec 2019 #23
wysimdnwyg Dec 2019 #25
ehrnst Dec 2019 #34
Sea Glass Dec 2019 #16
marble falls Dec 2019 #31
tberry65 Dec 2019 #18
ehrnst Dec 2019 #35
jberryhill Dec 2019 #19
vsrazdem Dec 2019 #21
Act_of_Reparation Dec 2019 #24
Hortensis Dec 2019 #28
ehrnst Dec 2019 #32
Recursion Dec 2019 #36
madville Dec 2019 #38
nini Dec 2019 #39
progressoid Dec 2019 #41

Response to OldRed2450 (Original post)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 01:50 PM

1. Depending on what kind of jobs you've had, I can see some people thinking that. On my

 

last job working for a blood center, pay rates were the same. But then at one time, in donor services, the people that actually work the blood drives, four out of five of us were women. Four out of five supervisors were men. That was bullshit, especially if you knew the guys. That's where the difference was there.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to OldRed2450 (Original post)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 01:59 PM

2. i don't see how you conclude that, from the video

 

bernie clearly supports equal pay.

your subject line is incorrect and misleading.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to garybeck (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:02 PM

4. It's from the twitter responses; that's why the OP said "it's not from Bernie"

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to garybeck (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:03 PM

5. Click through and read the comments...

 




If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 04:04 PM

40. Seriously????? you believe Twitter responses?

 

Bernie Sanders knows there is a wage gap.
His supporters do as well.

Period.

Twitter is a cesspool. I thought everyone knew that.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to OldRed2450 (Original post)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:00 PM

3. Some Bernie supporters are not true Democrats

 

In 2016, a number of voters who did not regularly vote Democratic were supporters of Bernie. When he did not win the nomination, they went and voted for the Republican, as they usually did.

The same thing happened in 2008. A number of Hillary fans were women who did not regularly vote Democratic but liked the idea of a woman being President. When Obama won the nomination, they voted as they normally did, Republican.

Not all of the people who say that they are Bernie supporters are Lefty Progressive Democrats. Since I believe that Democrats overwhelmingly believe in equal pay for equal work, I think the majority of people who would claim to be Bernie fans but not support equal pay are either Bernie supporters who are not Democrats or are trolls who do not actually support Bernie at all.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Sloumeau (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:09 PM

6. This

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Sloumeau (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:36 PM

13. Thank you!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to OldRed2450 (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:37 PM

15. You are very welcome. :)

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to OldRed2450 (Reply #13)


Response to Sloumeau (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 07:16 PM

27. Correct.

 

The point by his own supporters that Bernie attracts supporters that aren't Democrats. They can't own that statement in certain situations and disavow it in others.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Sloumeau (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 05:11 AM

37. I'm not convinced they're all American at this point

 

Too many bots and disrupters liking to stir the pot online.
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Response to OldRed2450 (Original post)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:11 PM

7. They should check his campaign payroll records over the years.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 08:05 PM

30. Boom.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:19 PM

33. Indeed.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/02/us/politics/bernie-sanders-campaign-sexism.html
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Response to OldRed2450 (Original post)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:15 PM

8. OMG someone on Twitter posted something disagreeable

 

Stop the presses

I'm sure each and every candidate has supporters on Twitter who have opinions we disagree with.

Should we all go and find the worst ones to being here and use them to smear the candidate?

Would that be a good idea?

FFS
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to redqueen (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 06:38 PM

26. THIS +1,000,000! Smearing Bernie is the only thing left some think will keep him from the nomination

 

It's not gonna work. As if Bernie is responsible for everything a supporter of his might say... riiiight!! Imagine if the "Bernie Standard" was applied to Biden. It doesn't matter... the fear of Bernie, while understandable, will have no ill effect on his campaign... Bernie's poll numbers just keep growing with every new attack on him, so, AFAIC, keep it up!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to OldRed2450 (Original post)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:18 PM

9. Great video!

 

Thanks for posting
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Response to Tiggeroshii (Reply #9)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:32 PM

11. You're welcome

 

Yes, the people in the comments are not getting their ideas from Bernie but in comments.. why do so many people disagree with Bernie?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to OldRed2450 (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:37 PM

14. Never look at the comments. You might turn to stone.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to OldRed2450 (Original post)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:25 PM

10. Whoa, there!

 

You are being more than a bit disingenuous by looking at the replies to that tweet and assuming they are Bernie supporters. Read the comments to some of Trump's tweets sometime and you'll see in stark terms what I mean. Literally anybody can reply to a tweet.

As to the wage gap being 'debunked,' that simply isn't true.

All you have to do is look at the latest census data profiles. Specifically you'll reference the Data Profile 03: Economic Characteristics. This profile can be downloaded from data.census.gov for any given geography, from the nation, to states, to counties, metro areas, micropolitan areas, and census designated places - like neighborhoods.

The DP03 has a line that gives the average earnings for a female full time worker and a male full time worker. Depending on the geography the range might go from $0.60 on the dollar to over $0.80 on the dollar, but I've never seen parity.

Now, if you want to talk statistics, this does not necessarily mean that companies are not paying women the same money, though some aren't.

It can also have to do with occupations that individuals tend to self-select into. Occupational families such as teachers and counselors, for instance, tend to be dominated by women, and pay lower wages. Other industries, such as stock brokerages and engineering firms tend to be dominated by men, and pay higher wages.

One academic actually destroyed her career by having the temerity to suggest that since some women 'stop out' of the labor force to give birth and raise families, they will, when they return to the labor force, earn less because they've missed some years of progressive earnings. She was crucified for it, which I have mixed feelings about because we're in reality not in academia.

My take after many years as a practicing career counselor and economist is that we need some policy direction leading to higher wages for teachers, counselors, nurses and other occupations that are truly important, and perhaps cap wages for occupations that don't add as much social value - like CEOs.

So what is it? I suggest it is a combination of all three. There really IS a wage gap, and Bernie stood right there on the video saying that. He cannot be responsible for the trolls that reply to his twitter posts.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #10)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:35 PM

12. I didn't say Bernie was responsible. I even said they do NOT get their info from Bernie.

 

I'm just sad about the disinformation these young folks are getting
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Response to OldRed2450 (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:59 PM

17. Well, you did say that

 

"Bernie Sanders followers do not believe there is a wage gap."

That was the title of your OP, and it is that assertion I attempted to overturn with my reply.

I mean, look at this group of people on DU. Most of us are well educated, and many work in professional fields. In fact, there are some real heavy hitters on here. You will notice that 30% of us are either Warren or Sanders supporters, and 44% are undecided. This leaves 26% who fall a bit more in the center.

That said, I often get 'face palm' moments when I read some of this stuff. For instance, I read a big diatribe on here a few months ago that said the American people weren't smart enough to understand that if we raise taxes to provide Medicare for All, their expenses would actually go down because they wouldn't have premiums, copays and coinsurance. And, you know, Warren is right.

If we could get rid of the big pharma and health insurance lobbies, who are spending millions to discredit Warren and Sanders, we'd all be better off, because I will tell you as an economist - we could (and should) find a way to provide national healthcare for all Americans. Bernie and Elizabeth are both saying Medicare for all because the Medicare system already is in place. We wouldn't have to reinvent it, just expand it year over year for maybe five or six years until it covered everyone.

There would not be a giant exodus of people from the healthcare field.

We would still have good quality healthcare.

All the doctors who exist now would STILL be doctors and still be in business, but they would be paid by a single source instead of having to spend massive amounts of money on insurance company paperwork, denials and re-submissions.

But that's us - PROFIT trumps people every single time. Every. Single. Time.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to PatrickforO (Reply #17)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 03:30 PM

22. "Does anyone know where they get their information or why they believe this? It's not from Bernie."

 

No, they didn't
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Response to OldRed2450 (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 03:27 PM

20. A whole lot of "these young folks" are not "folks"

 

They're Russian troll bots.

Perhaps a change to the title of your thread is appropriate, as the current one does imply that you think many of Sanders's followers believe that particular myth.
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Response to wysimdnwyg (Reply #20)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 03:30 PM

23. "They're Russian bots" is the new "No True Scotsman"

 

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Response to LongtimeAZDem (Reply #23)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 05:32 PM

25. First, I had to look up that reference

 

Second, are you really denying the existence of Russian bots? Because the frequency of social media companies announcing that they've shut down a bunch of them seems to defeat your claim.

That said, no, I have no proof that the accounts claiming to not believe the existence of a wage gap are necessarily bots, and I'm sure many of them are real people (although it's doubtful they're actually Sanders supporters), but it definitely makes sense that many of them are bots, as that's just the kind of claim you'd expect.
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Response to wysimdnwyg (Reply #20)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:19 PM

34. But a lot of very real people share those "bot" posts.

 

And swallow them hook line and sinker to the point of making them go viral.
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Response to OldRed2450 (Original post)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:46 PM

16. Just because a few of them say nutty thing doesn't mean all believe that.

 

I like Bernie (and Warren as well) but I certainly know there's a wage gap.

I know a few really whacked out Biden supporters (including a global warmer denier, go figure) but I don't imagine all of his people are like that.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Sea Glass (Reply #16)

Wed Dec 18, 2019, 02:30 PM

31. Its all good because you can sea beyond ...

 

the occasional whacko supporting a good candidate.
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Response to OldRed2450 (Original post)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 03:11 PM

18. That is nonsense! Of course we believe in the wage gap! Bernie speaks about it!

 

pfft!
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Response to tberry65 (Reply #18)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:21 PM

35. "I certainly apologize to any woman who felt she was not treated appropriately, and of course

 

if I run we will do better the next time,” he said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/us/politics/sanders-sexism-apology.html

Felt.

Ms. Davis, the former state director, said that she was originally paid about $2,400 a month as a senior staff member and saw in the campaign’s records that a younger man who was originally supposed to report to her made $5,000 a month. She said that she brought the issue to the campaign’s chief operating officer, who adjusted her salary to achieve parity.

“I helped at least a dozen women request raises so that they would be paid on par with their male peers,” Ms. Davis said.

The senator’s campaign committee acknowledged that there were pay disparities but said salaries were based on experience or the nature of the job and “never determined based on any consideration of an individual’s gender or of any other personal characteristic.’’

During the campaign, the committee said, it conducted a review to try to standardize pay across the states and within headquarters.


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/02/us/politics/bernie-sanders-campaign-sexism.html

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Response to OldRed2450 (Original post)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 03:27 PM

19. Wait, you are saying that everyone who responds to a Bernie tweet is a "Bernie follower"?

 


Does that apply to Trump tweets as well?

You believe that everyone who responds to a Bernie tweet is a "young person" and "Bernie follower", as you've characterized them in this thread?

And you honestly believe this?
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Response to OldRed2450 (Original post)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 03:29 PM

21. Why contribute to the fake news?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to OldRed2450 (Original post)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 03:34 PM

24. Do you understand what "anecdotal" means?

 

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Response to OldRed2450 (Original post)

Tue Dec 17, 2019, 07:18 PM

28. Sanders' following includes two main anti-Democrat factions:

 

His quasi-socialist dissidents (who are usually glad to denounce economic inequality but tend to follow the lead of the others) and his more aggressive populists. A majority of populists, both LW and RW, combine economic progressivism (programs for what they want for themselves) with social conservatism. (Sanders's presumably tend to put more weight on economic resentments than social, Trump's vice versa.)

So social conservatives are the main answer. Resentment and antagonism toward equality of women are very big traits among those. And the Democratic Party no longer recognizes a man's right to all the best paid and higher status jobs, so antagonism toward Democrats' creating just too much equality can be is just as big among many of Sanders' male populists as it is among Trump's. That's also why those who dominated these noisy attacks came to be called Bernie bros, because they tend to be guys.
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Response to OldRed2450 (Original post)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:14 PM

32. "Identity politics"

 

That which does not directly impact white straight cis males.
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Response to OldRed2450 (Original post)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 10:08 PM

36. The thing is, the most effective way to close the gender wage gap

 

time and time again, has been shown to reproductive autonomy. Which makes Sanders's support for anti-choice candidates over the past 3 years a problem.
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Response to OldRed2450 (Original post)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 08:40 AM

38. I've never personally seen a wage gap myself

 

Not to say it doesn’t exist I’ve just always worked at places that paid everyone equally. In the military we had a set pay scale for everyone based on pay grade and time in service, as a federal civilian we had a set pay scale with set steps, most civilian employers I have had had an hourly pay schedule based on position and/or shift and seniority.

Is the gap seen most likely in jobs where pay is negotiated and flexible maybe?
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Response to OldRed2450 (Original post)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 11:11 PM

39. They should be a woman in the tech world.

 

Especially one who's been around. Since 1992. It’s disgusting.
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Response to OldRed2450 (Original post)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 04:11 PM

41. "a whole group of people?"

 

You mean some people on Twitter?

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