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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 07:19 PM

 

Opponents outshine Bernie Sanders in sixth presidential debate

By Jon Margolis


For Bernie Sanders, the good news about Thursday’s candidate debate was that with only six opponents on stage, he had more chance to strut his stuff.

The bad news was that so did the other six, and a few of them were in better form than Vermont’s most celebrated political revolutionary.

Just as a performer, no one was in better form than Sen. Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, who was both more aggressive and more impressive than she had been in the five earlier debates.

At one point, she took on Sanders over his “Medicare for all” proposal that would abolish private health insurance plans. Turning to Sanders, who stood just to her right, she said a Democrat can be “progressive and practical at the same time” urging universal health care through expanding the Affordable Care Act instead of doing away with private insurance.

Read more: https://vtdigger.org/2019/12/20/opponents-outshine-bernie-sanders-in-sixth-presidential-debate/
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Reply Opponents outshine Bernie Sanders in sixth presidential debate (Original post)
TexasTowelie Dec 2019 OP
guillaumeb Dec 2019 #1
InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2019 #2
George II Dec 2019 #13
question everything Dec 2019 #40
BannonsLiver Dec 2019 #43
George II Dec 2019 #14
guillaumeb Dec 2019 #21
George II Dec 2019 #24
guillaumeb Dec 2019 #25
George II Dec 2019 #26
guillaumeb Dec 2019 #27
Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #41
guillaumeb Dec 2019 #46
Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #56
question everything Dec 2019 #39
guillaumeb Dec 2019 #49
question everything Dec 2019 #55
guillaumeb Dec 2019 #57
booley Dec 2019 #3
TexasTowelie Dec 2019 #5
Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2019 #9
TexasTowelie Dec 2019 #11
George II Dec 2019 #15
Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2019 #17
George II Dec 2019 #18
guillaumeb Dec 2019 #22
Cha Dec 2019 #35
kcr Dec 2019 #42
Cha Dec 2019 #45
guillaumeb Dec 2019 #47
Cha Dec 2019 #48
guillaumeb Dec 2019 #51
Cha Dec 2019 #52
Cha Dec 2019 #34
Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2019 #36
Cha Dec 2019 #37
InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2019 #32
TexasTowelie Dec 2019 #54
BannonsLiver Dec 2019 #44
crazytown Dec 2019 #4
ritapria Dec 2019 #6
TexasTowelie Dec 2019 #8
vsrazdem Dec 2019 #10
TexasTowelie Dec 2019 #12
vsrazdem Dec 2019 #20
redstateblues Dec 2019 #30
redstateblues Dec 2019 #28
TomCADem Dec 2019 #33
betsuni Dec 2019 #7
Cha Dec 2019 #38
Tarheel_Dem Dec 2019 #16
Cha Dec 2019 #19
redstateblues Dec 2019 #29
Cha Dec 2019 #31
Gothmog Dec 2019 #23
NYMinute Dec 2019 #50
apcalc Dec 2019 #53

Response to TexasTowelie (Original post)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 07:22 PM

1. Private, for profit insurance is the problem.

 

Any solution that allows these for profit corporations to control pricing and access is no solution.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 07:27 PM

2. Exactly!! Bernie drove that point home and won the debate in the process.

 

Last edited Sun Dec 22, 2019, 01:00 AM - Edit history (2)

No one even came close!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Come join the progressive revolution!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 08:26 PM

13. "And I'm a white man" and his wagging hand while Biden was speaking lost it for him.

 

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primary today, I would vote for:
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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 02:14 AM

40. I admit. It grates on me when Warren and Sanders pour their wrath on

 

“Millionaires” when I know that they have their millions that most of us will never even get close.

Sure, many wealthy individuals historically stood by the poor, worked and enacted laws to make life easier. Certainly the Roosevelts and the Kennedys did. But they never bad mouthed the wealthy the way Warren and Sanders do.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 02:41 PM

43. Yeah he actually didn't win the debate.

 

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primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 08:28 PM

14. Profit margin for "these for profit corporations" is between 3-5%, lower than most businesses...

 

...in the US, including the corner grocery store.

Facts matter.
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Response to George II (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:08 PM

21. Canada spends 1/2 per person of what the US spends.

 

For better outcomes.

Yes, facts do matter.

The US is ranked 37th for a reason. And that fact matters as well, especially for the millions with no access to healthcare.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #21)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:12 PM

24. Those numbers are skewed because they don't take into account the overall tax impositions...

 

...to account for that "1/2 per person".

Simple example (not real numbers, just an illustration):

Americans spend $10,000 per person, zero taxes

Canadians spend $5,000 per person, $6,000 taxes

What's the bottom line?

Americans pay $10,000, Canadians pay $11,000. Next?
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Response to George II (Reply #24)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:30 PM

25. Incorrect.

 

But the insurance companies are spending billions to convince US citizens that insurance companies should remain in control.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:34 PM

26. Okay.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #26)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:38 PM

27. Sorry, but facts do matter.

 

Yes, in Canada, for any given income bracket, taxes are higher than in the US, but those taxes include healthcare spending. And when healthcare spending is allocated per province, the cost per capita is 1/2 that of US spending. Part of that is controlling drug prices to prevent the price gouging that is endemic to the US system.
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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #27)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 02:26 AM

41. Canada does not include prescriptions in their healthcare...so there are

 

other costs.
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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #41)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 06:39 PM

46. Drug prices are controlled.

 

Which means that component is also cheaper than in the US.
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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #46)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 10:13 PM

56. It is still expensive.

 

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 02:08 AM

39. There is more to pro choice than abortion

 

You can drop your private insurance and join the promised land of M4A, but let the rest of us keep ours - if we want to,

Funny, some of the arguments that we had about keeping the ACA was that “government should not take rights away” but this is precisely what M4A wants to do.
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Response to question everything (Reply #39)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 06:43 PM

49. No Federal health plan can offer abortion.

 

And many who claim to love their private insurance only use it for routine care. But when serious conditions arise, these people often find how limited their beloved private insurance is.
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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #49)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 09:26 PM

55. I use the abortion as an example of pro-choice

 

Well, some of us suffer major ailments and our private insurance paid everything.

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primary today, I would vote for:
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Response to question everything (Reply #55)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 10:16 PM

57. And medical costs are still the #1 reason people cite in filing for bankruptcy.

 

Being ranked 37th in the world is nothing to be proud about.
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Response to TexasTowelie (Original post)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 07:30 PM

3. Others clearly disagree

 

I understand people will have a bias when it comes to who won a political debate

Personally I am still wondering why the moderators keep giving Klobuchar so much speaking time when it hasnt' helped her move up in the polls at all. But I also admit I have a bias

However, Sanders did definitely make an impression and ignoring is probably a bad idea.



You don't have to like Frank Lutz. I sure don't
But its the people he is talking too that are important.
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Undecided

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Response to booley (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 07:43 PM

5. Strange.

 

Most columnists have a bias for their home state candidates.

I also find it amusing that you believe that Frank Luntz, the purveyor of RW talking points, is credible in any manner.
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Response to TexasTowelie (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 08:07 PM

9. Agreed. Only Jennifer Rubin, WAPO's right wing columnist, is credible around here.

 

I mean that right wing loony’s own personal opinion is credible. An actual focus group, not so much.
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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 08:12 PM

11. Focus groups are easily rigged.

 

They get paid for participating so I take their opinions with a grain of salt.
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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 08:30 PM

15. Jennifer Rubin isn't a right wing columnist.

 

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Response to George II (Reply #15)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 08:40 PM

17. Lol.

 

She literally wrote a column called The Right Turn blog

Jennifer Rubin is an American conservative columnist who writes the "Right Turn" blog for The Washington Post. Previously she worked at Commentary, PJ Media, Human Events, and The Weekly Standard. Her work has been published in media outlets including Politico, New York Post, New York Daily News, National Review, and The Jerusalem Post.



Her own former Ombudsman said she should be fired.

She nothing but an embarrassed repig who wants to stick her beak in our politics.



https://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2013/08/ex-washington-post-ombudsman-fire-jennifer-rubin-170603

Patrick Pexton, who served as The Washington Post's ombudsman until March of this year, has written an open letter to incoming Post owner Jeff Bezos in which he calls on him to make editorial page editor Fred Hiatt fire Jennifer Rubin, the paper's conservative columnist.

"Have Fred Hiatt, your editorial page editor — who I like, admire, and respect — fire opinion blogger Jennifer Rubin. Not because she’s conservative, but because she’s just plain bad," Pexton writes in the letter, which was published by Washington City Paper.

"She doesn’t travel within a hundred miles of Post standards," Pexton argues. "She parrots and peddles every silly right-wing theory to come down the pike in transparent attempts to get Web hits. Her analysis of the conservative movement, which is a worthwhile and important beat that the Post should treat more seriously on its national pages, is shallow and predictable. Her columns, at best, are political pornography; they get a quick but sure rise out of the right, but you feel bad afterward."

Pexton also used his letter to offer general business advice; praise new editor Marty Baron for making the Post "edgier, tougher, newsier, and more ambitious in national and local coverage"; and lament the decline of the Style section, which he said needed "a mission and someone to shape the vision."
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #17)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 08:44 PM

18. Luzd.

 

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primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to George II (Reply #15)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:08 PM

22. Yes she is.

 

Facts matter.
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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 01:07 AM

35. How's this for a fact.. JR hates trump..she wants him GONE.

 

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Response to Cha (Reply #35)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 01:53 PM

42. That hardly means she isn't a right winger

 

There are plenty of examples of conservatives who hate Trump.
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Response to kcr (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 06:10 PM

45. So? never said she wasn't.

 

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Response to Cha (Reply #35)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 06:41 PM

47. True, but she is still a right wing columnist.

 

One might guess that Mitt Romney, and other GOP politicians, also hate Trump, but they are too cowardly to say anything.
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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #47)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 06:43 PM

48. Yes, but she's an ally in wanting #45IMPEACHED GONE.

 

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Response to Cha (Reply #48)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 06:47 PM

51. And we both welcome those allies.

 

As we realize that these allies are still conservatives, and that significant differences exist.
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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #51)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 06:49 PM

52. Of course.. and I welcome all the help

 

we can get.
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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 01:06 AM

34. Jennifer Rubin is a #NEVER#45IMPEACHED.. she Hates

 

trump.
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Response to Cha (Reply #34)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 01:24 AM

36. Yeah, like I said, she's an embarrassed repig who should fix her own party

 

These people support 40 years of Reaganism. They support Bush during illegal wars. They support republicans using racism and homophobia to gain power.

But trump is just too much. We are supposed to respect them? Fuck that.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #36)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 01:49 AM

37. JR Wants #45IMPEACHED GONE.

 

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Response to booley (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 10:07 PM

32. Luntz's focus group is right on the money... so many people I know are comin over to Bernie.

 

The #1 reason I hear from them is that Bernie is genuine and passionate in articulating his vision for America's future and can be trusted to fight for that vision because he can't be bought.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Time for all to join the progressive revolution!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to InAbLuEsTaTe (Reply #32)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 06:58 PM

54. You should get out more.

 

I've been on three different college campuses in the past two months. There is no stampede to support Bernie--most of the comments that I've heard is that his ideas were rejected in the 60s and they are no more valid today than they were then.
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Response to booley (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 02:43 PM

44. Frank Luntz LOL

 

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primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to TexasTowelie (Original post)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 07:36 PM

4. And yet, going by 538's polling, 40% were actively considering Sanders

 

as nominee compared with 14% for Klobuchar. Amy was up 6% but way behind.
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Response to TexasTowelie (Original post)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 07:56 PM

6. That is not the way the voters saw it

 

The percentage of Democratic voters considering a vote for Bernie went up - not down; according post-debate polling sponsored by … 538 ...He did very well in the LA Times sponsored Frank Luntz focus group ….He had 6 supporters in the 25 member focus group … 14 of the 25 thought he won the debate …..Luntz videotaped the results ...I saw them raise their hands ... Are the LA Times in on the conspiracy as well ? ………..
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Response to ritapria (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 08:03 PM

8. So when has any focus group sponsored by Frank Luntz ever been considered credible?

 

I'm surprised that you would fall for such nonsense.
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Response to TexasTowelie (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 08:11 PM

10. It's funny how when Lunts focus groups don't like trump, I don't hear "It's not credible."

 

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primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 08:15 PM

12. It's funny that somehow this one focus group is somehow more important

 

than any other group.

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Response to TexasTowelie (Reply #12)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:02 PM

20. I don't think it is.

 

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Undecided

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:48 PM

30. Nope. He has never been credible

 

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Response to ritapria (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:44 PM

28. Frank Luntz??? You are not serious.

 

His employers are promoting Bernie because they know he is too far left to win in the GE
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Response to redstateblues (Reply #28)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 12:36 AM

33. It Says Something When Russians and Republicans Are Pushing Bernie...

 

...and his protege, Tulsi Gabbard.
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Response to TexasTowelie (Original post)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 08:03 PM

7. I liked how the moderator asked Bernie about his Afghanistan War vote.

 

After he yet again said that Biden "helped lead us" into the Iraq War. She said Bernie often brings up his Iraq War vote as evidence of his judgement on foreign policy, but he voted for the Afghanistan War and as recently as 2015 supported continued troop presence there. He said it was a mistake. Yes, some votes are mistakes. People make mistakes. I hope Bernie stops bringing up Biden's Iraq vote as some sort of evidence he's a big secret warmonger or something.

I loved Klobuchar's comment that nobody has a monopoly on bold ideas, directed at Bernie, that if you want to cross a river you build a bridge, not blow it up. And Pete's reply to Warren's insinuation of corruption by a wine cave, that she's using money from the same kind of fundraisers: "Did it corrupt you? Of course not!" These stupid purity tests have no place in this election. Easy to turn it right back around at them and then it's wasting time that could be used to talk about real things: "I did not come here to listen to this argument. I came here to make a case for progress." On the other hand, if one doesn't push back when accused of corruption or warmongering and so on, it'll never stop and become a "Crooked Hillary" situation for our candidate in the general election.
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Response to betsuni (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 01:57 AM

38. Wow, Zingers from Sen Klobuchar!

 

I loved Klobuchar's comment that nobody has a monopoly on bold ideas, directed at Bernie, that if you want to cross a river you build a bridge, not blow it up. And Pete's reply to Warren's insinuation of corruption by a wine cave, that she's using money from the same kind of fundraisers: "Did it corrupt you? Of course not!"

Both very pertinent! And, I will be passing them on.. so, Mahalo, betsuni!
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Response to TexasTowelie (Original post)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 08:30 PM

16. This is good news. n/t

 

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Response to TexasTowelie (Original post)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 08:47 PM

19. They Sure Did! Good on Amy!

 

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Response to Cha (Reply #19)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:46 PM

29. Sure do like me some Amy. Glad she is surging

 

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Response to redstateblues (Reply #29)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:51 PM

31. I appreciate her calling out BS..

 

Klobuchar didn’t limit her criticism to Buttigieg on Thursday night. Turning to Sen. Bernie Sanders, she said a Democrat can be “progressive and practical at the same time,” criticizing him for his “Medicare for All” proposal and advocating for the country to build on the Affordable Care Act instead.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/20/klobuchar-debate-performance-highlights-088531

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Response to TexasTowelie (Original post)

Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:10 PM

23. sanders hometown paper does a good job describing this debate

 

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Response to TexasTowelie (Original post)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 06:44 PM

50. Hell, yes!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to TexasTowelie (Original post)

Sat Dec 21, 2019, 06:50 PM

53. Amy has good ideas and is practical.

 

I like her.
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