Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumWhy vote for Sanders when you can have Elizabeth Warren instead?
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Why would Democratic voters choose Sanders when Warren is running? The two are not ideologically identical, but the differences between their major policy stances, on regulation of financial services and the need to extend the welfare state, are relatively minor, especially compared to the rest of the field. Warren calls herself a capitalist, the Sanders partisans point out, while Sanders is unafraid of the label socialist. Thats one thing. But this point has the quality of a post-hoc rationalization. It is cited by those seeking a politically acceptable reason to vote for a man and not for a woman those who would vote for this man, and perhaps not any woman, no matter what.
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But Warrens primary virtue over Sanders is that she seems to understand the inextricable binds between racial and gender discrimination and the economic injustice that both candidates abhor. She has made statements about the reality of racial discrimination, how it compounds with economic injustice to keep people of color from entering and staying in the middle class.
Sanders, meanwhile, speaks about the struggles of the working class in reductionist and retro ways; he seems to hold an anachronistic understanding of the American worker as white and male, oppressed only by his bosses and not at the same time by the structures of racism and sexism.
[link:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/20/sanders-elizabeth-warren-feminism-identity|
This is my number one frustration with old white male socialists - they have no understanding of and do not wish to understand that identity politics has a place if progressive agendas' are ever going to be successful. They come from a position of white male privilege, and however much they want to see change they will always see change through that prism. It is what it is. But in 2019 there are other, better choices.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Ohiogal
(32,046 posts)"Misogyny from the left feels even darker and more viscerally offensive than misogyny from the right. From conservatives, we expect it. From leftists, it is a betrayal."
And I do think Hillary Clinton was a victim of leftist misogyny, to some extent. I just hope Elizabeth Warren does not fall victim to the same.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
FoxNewsSucks
(10,434 posts)or almost any of the currently running Democrats.
No more corporatist, "third-way", "conservadem", bank-and-industry-money-establishment type Democrats. We need a genuine liberal, and there are more than one running.
My reason for giving a slight favor to Sanders is that he's been sincere and consistent in his positions for decades and has the experience of his years moving up through politics. He knows how things work in DC.
For an example of what I mean, look at the House and Pelosi. At first, I was in agreement with the "What?? Her again? We want and elected NEW people!!" sentiment. I soon realized I was wrong, because Pelosi has kicked MF45's ass. She's done the right thing by being Speaker with her experience, and putting the newbies into positions where they can act and more importantly, learn how things work in order to be able to politically kick ass like her.
I also think that hurt Obama, because his relative newness led to mistakes like putting corporate insiders in his cabinet. Being more experienced at "how things work" enabled them to get corporate-friendly things done, instead of the good liberal policy we need.
So I'd like to see the most experienced person at the top of the ticket, and everyone else lining up to get the job done, learn, and move up. I hope our democracy is still around in 15-20 years so I can vote FOR someone like AOC.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
mountain grammy
(26,644 posts)Ive taken back every negative thing I ever said about Pelosi and agree with you. Im officially undecided, but Warren and Sanders top my list at this point. That said, I dont like this OP.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cha
(297,528 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CrossingTheRubicon
(731 posts)Give it a rest.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
FoxNewsSucks
(10,434 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
CrossingTheRubicon
(731 posts)"bank-and-industry-money-establishment types" is very ugly, divisive, and slanderous.
Why are you here?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BannonsLiver
(16,439 posts)Sure makes one wonder.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emulatorloo
(44,173 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cha
(297,528 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)We hear the same old crap...corporatism, oligarchy, and of course the favorite: establishment. Blah, blah, blah.
EVERY politician who has been in Congress for years is by definition "establishment." They may have different views, but they all are experienced politicians, with all that implies. Bernie is no exception; neither is Elizabeth. I MUCH prefer Elizabeth, who actually has done some policy work.
I also remember when the very people who are now trying to push Bernie down everyone's throats were clamoring for Elizabeth to run. Good times...
All that said, I still haven't made up my mind for the primaries, except who I won't vote for.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,528 posts)Stale tired buzzwords that mean nothing.
Our Democratic Party had A Democratic Victory in the House with Dems from all over the country.. all different kinds of Dems. That's how we're able to fight back against the Fascism that has taken over our Gov.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lapucelle
(18,305 posts)What are you talking about?
Hillary Clinton is a Hard-Core Liberal.
Elizabeth Warren is a Hard-Core Liberal.
http://www.ontheissues.org/hillary_clinton.htm
http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/elizabeth_warren.htm
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,528 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Like Hillary, who ran a second time for president in 2016, its Bernie's now turn to run again. He absolutely deserves that shot given his incredible showing, coming from 60 points behind against the most powerful Democratic political machine in our lifetime. Bernie will do even better this time around, of that I have no doubt.
Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Any actual Democrat thats running. Not one that just wears the tag when its politically expedient.
Ones that show their taxes.
Ones that dont run as spoilers.
Ones that arent every bit as in bed with the Russians as Trump and Stein.
NEVER BS.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
rurallib
(62,444 posts)and I came down on the side of Warren.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)Senator Sanders are demonstrably false and part of the poltical hack job of the last election.
I was a lifelong MA resident until 2015 and voted for Elizabeth Warren in 2012. I even have a photo of my oldest daughter standing next to the Senator in her Senate office in DC. I have a lot of respect for the her and she is high on my list.
I could a make long llink ridden case here to dispute your characterization of Senator Sanders but instead i will say that i adamantly disagree with it.
I like them both and would be happy to vote for either one of them, or for both of them on the same ticket .
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Renew Deal
(81,869 posts)Allowing someone else to win
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emulatorloo
(44,173 posts)Our candidates are all solidly behind universal healthcare. And they also have the chops to create detailed policy proposals on how to get there. (Except maybe Bernie, who is good at slogans but not good at all at concrete policy.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Lazy Daisy
(928 posts)She wants to "fix" the ACA, but not take it as far as universal healthcare. As the campaigns get farther into season, I'm sure others will follow. Being pragmatic and all that.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)She has stated she thinks Medicare for All is doable in the future. I cannot imagine she would block any such bill were it to cross her desk.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Lazy Daisy
(928 posts)and they aren't for universal healthcare. Do you think a bill would even get to her desk? No, they will follow the leader. If a Democratic President says "lets reinforce the ACA" that's what they'll do
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Trenzalore
(2,331 posts)It will be the congress critters just like last time when he public option died a slow death.
75% of the candidates running will support the best legislation that can make it out of the House and Senate.
None of the candidates are running for king.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cha
(297,528 posts)would that be?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BannonsLiver
(16,439 posts)This is what Im hoping for as well.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emulatorloo
(44,173 posts)Sanders supporter in 2016, in my humble opinion Warren is more accomplished and is excellent at writing concrete policy proposals. Bernie does really offer either of those things.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)I guess he doesnt think a woman can win. Thats the only reason I see left.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emulatorloo
(44,173 posts)He says a lot of stuff.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)I don't think either will be the nominee, though Warren has better odds than Sanders.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)I'm not taking anything away from Warren, but Bernie has been there for us for so long. He has to be my first choice at this point although of course I would vote for Warren if she gets the nomination.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emulatorloo
(44,173 posts)Bernie has renamed a couple of post-offices, it isnt comparable.
Dont get me wrong I like Bernie, he is a wonderful Senator for Vermont. As I say I supported him in Primary 2016. I just think there are better choices and stronger candidates this time.
Of course if he gets the nomination ill enthusiastically GOTV for him.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BannonsLiver
(16,439 posts)And Im not talking about bills he co-sponsored.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)There is a lot more than introducing laws that pass. In the gridlocked political environment of today, it's hard for anyone, Bernie or anyone else, to get anything progressive passed into law. If we are going to use that criterion for judging candidates then few from the current crop come out that well.
Look at President Obama for instance. He was a great president who would be in office today if he could have run for a third term but what legislative accomplishments could he point to as a presidential candidate in 2008? His greatest accomplishment was the Affordable Care Act but that happened after he was elected. Elect Bernie and then see what he can do.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to totodeinhere (Reply #57)
BannonsLiver This message was self-deleted by its author.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)that is, IF he jumps in the race. It doesn't look that way, since Joe has had 3 years to think about it and, by having not yet announced, he surely must be having his doubts... so, even if he does decide to run, I wonder whether his heart will be in it, which is a huge factor in the outcome of an election.
Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)No surprise really... Bernie had prolly the best rollout of a political campaign as I've ever seen, following up on his stellar performance in 2016. The only thing surprising are the claims by some here that Bernie is not a credible candidate and demands that he withdraw from the race - before it's even started!! - cuz he sposedly has no path to victory.
Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!
The revolution has started!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cha
(297,528 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Lazy Daisy
(928 posts)And the implications that the only reason one would support Bernie over Elizabeth is misogyny is insulting. Continuing the trash of the last primary. I wonder, do those who support Joe Biden do so for the same reason? Because of misogyny? And why is it people think if you support Bernie you would naturally support Elizabeth? Frankly if it wasn't for Bernie running I'd be supporting Kamala.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emulatorloo
(44,173 posts)Thanks in advance, I supported Sanders in 2016 and do like him. I dont see a huge difference between them policy wise so I look forward to your reply.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Lazy Daisy
(928 posts)She is another candidate that doesn't go full in for universal healthcare. She's more in line with "fixing" Obamacare.
She is another candidate that doesn't go full in for free public colleges. She's more in line with "debt-free"
To some they may seem to have the same policy, and on some points they do. But how they get there is very different.
We have to bear in mind that she started out as a Republican. It was only about 20 years ago that she changed over to the Democratic Party. She's going to have a base thought from the old Republican view (before they got completely insane)
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emulatorloo
(44,173 posts)Definitely serious things to consider.
The Republicans thing doesnt bother me, she seems to have made a very genuine conversion.
Thanks again
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
kcr
(15,318 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
forklift
(401 posts)We should shoot for the moon. Bernie says he will deliver and as impossible as it may seem, he surely must have a plan. He is a seasoned senator with decades of experience.
He also seems genuinely authentic and doesn't sound like a politician.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WordsMatter
(80 posts)If you are referring to Senator Sanders - he is a self described Democratic Socialist. Words matter.
I can't answer for Sanders or any other progressive but I do know that progressive policies will help every single person in America independent of race, religion, sexually preference, etc...
It would have been a hard choice between Sanders and Warren in 2016 but Senator Warren did not run for president. So now with both running - it will be a hard choice.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emulatorloo
(44,173 posts)We all agree at DU that progressive policy will lift everyone up, but Civil Rights shouldnt be dismissed or trivialized with repurposed reactionary phrases.
Of course YMMV
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WordsMatter
(80 posts)Of course Civil Rights should not/must not ever be dismissed or trivialized.
Maybe for those candidates who don't bring Civil Rights into conversation regularly, better start doing a better job!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emulatorloo
(44,173 posts)Great suggestions, they all need to talk about equality! Will be something to watch for in the debates especially
I dont think ill be able to choose a primary candidate until I get to hear them debate. It should be a great conversation!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WordsMatter
(80 posts)And now I think I too will wait until the debates before declaring on this site. At least I will try to wait...!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LAS14
(13,783 posts).... misogyny is all about, imagine talking heads discussing Sanders' "likeability." He can be as unlikeable as he likes and it's not a problem. Warren??? Not so much.
Don't get me wrong, I LIKE Warren a LOT. But history tells me that's a curse on a candidate.... me liking them.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aeromanKC
(3,326 posts)Or Harris, or Beto, or Castro or Buttegeig, The Left lane is over crowded with awesome candidates.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)Sanders and Warren appeal to the same constituency, partly because of where they place emphasis and partly because both are New Englanders. I think Brown appeals to the same constituency, as well, for the most part.
Many Sanders supporters like Warren but dislike Harris, even though Harris and Warren have the same voting record.
And there are Sanders supporters who like Biden but hate Clinton, which makes no sense from a policy perspective. Sexism and Biden being a New Englander are a couple of possible explanations.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BannonsLiver
(16,439 posts)she can perform a valuable service by cutting into Bernies voting bloc thus making it harder for him to win. That in ofitself is an important and valuable role to play even if she is not the nominee. And oh yeah, shes a damn good candidate in her own right who would make an excellent president. So theres that as well to consider.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cha
(297,528 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)As Cha's article points out, Warren is (purposely or not) distancing herself from Sanders, but they pretty clearly appeal to much the same constituency. That presents a problem for both of them in what is a pivotal state for both New Englanders (with the possibility that a 3rd very prominent New Englander may enter the race).
I hesitate, though, to call New Hampshire a pivotal state for Sanders, as I think he's done for after New Hampshire regardless. But how he does in IA and NH will certainly have an impact on how others do in those states.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
jcgoldie
(11,639 posts)..because I really like Harris and am intrigued by Beto, but if I had to go fill in the oval today it would be Liz!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)No other variable applies, when comparing those two.
I post on sports message boards dominated by white males. Elizabeth Warren is mocked all the time, and it decreased only when Ocasio-Cortez came onto the scene. Bernie Sanders is respected on those forums, even if they disagree with his policies. Sanders has rare degree of likability and teflon.
I prioritize margin for error against Trump. IMO, Elizabeth Warren is near the bottom of that category. I really like her, but I also really liked Andrew Gillum. I didn't vote for Gillum in the Florida primary because I understood that Gwen Graham was more electable. The native American stuff and the unfortunate nickname are something we should not ignore regarding Warren. We tried to ignore the Tallahassee FBI stuff with Gillum.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LWolf
(46,179 posts)I prefer Sanders to Warren! To answer your question.
I like Warren. I like Sanders more. Why not vote for the best? That's always my choice.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Never BS. Never.. never.. NEVER.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)Warren is an "accountable capitalist" whatever that is.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Just ask him!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
rgbecker
(4,834 posts)I've heard her speak and found no room in the hall when I went to hear her. She's my Senator and I think she's great. But as of now, Bernie Sanders is the king of bringing otherwise uninterested people on board and getting them to show their support with $27 donations. If someone else can do it, great. Harris, Warren both great progressives.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,528 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,528 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)Her proposal on breaking up tech is interesting
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
getagrip_already
(14,825 posts)in warrens tax returns. Whats the latest bs excuse?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
earthshine
(1,642 posts)Let them both keep speaking. That's what's most important to me right now.
The more they speak, the better the Dem party will be.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)She knows the difference between capitalism and socialism. In fairness, Sanders does to an extent. He mainly uses the terms to cater to LIVs while EW generates progressive policy.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
sfwriter
(3,032 posts)...because Warren didn't run.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Carrito
(42 posts)They have similar platforms.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,335 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided