UPDATE! Fred Guttenberg: "I absolutely cannot support @BernieSanders

[Cha]

Last edited Sun Mar 1, 2020, 05:40 PM - Edit history (3)

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

ETA~ UPDATE

Link to tweet

[Cha]

1. Mahalo, Fred Guttenberg..

[Pachamama]

103. +10000

[Cha]

146. Mahalo to you, Pachamama!

2020!

[Pachamama]

154. Happy New Year Cha!

May our wishes and intentions come true this 2020....

2020

[Cha]

157. Excellent wish for

2020!

[TheBlackAdder]

191. Needless to say, he presses the issue. 😂

[Cha]

238. Right

[ehrnst]

2. Good points. (nt)

[Cha]

4. Mr Guttenberg is determined..

Link to tweet

Mahalo, ehrnst~

[NurseJackie]

6. Mr. Gutenberg is correct. That is indeed a RW/NRA gun lobby talking-point.

Mr. Gutenberg is correct. That is indeed a RW/NRA gun lobby talking-point... and Mr. Gutenberg's disgust with BS is completely justified. Many share his feelings in that regard. I'm glad he's speaking up and calling him out.

[Cha]

14. Fred Guttenberg has called out Sanders before..

Link to tweet

This means so much to him.. very life itself

Mahalo, Jackie!

[NurseJackie]

16. Apparently Fred Gutenberg is making a lot of BS supporters a little testy...

Apparently Fred Gutenberg is making a lot of BS supporters a little testy. But I assure you that he's not going to be silenced. (And that's all I'll say about that for now... for obvious reasons.)

[ehrnst]

136. A little?

[NurseJackie]

137. To be honest with you... a different word came to mind...

... but I chose the one that was safe. (And I'll just leave it at that, for obvious reasons.)


HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

[The Mouth]

140. I'm not a Bernie supporter

But he can kiss my ass.

The dem nominee, period. Or they can go fuck themselves.

[NurseJackie]

141. Many people share your feelings.

Happy New Year!

[The Mouth]

144. I don't care if they do or not

As long as Trump doesn't pick the next couple of SCOTUS judges, every and anything else is a matter of preference, not survival.

[NurseJackie]

167. The more who care and share... the better odds we have that Trump won't pick any more USSC justices.

I don't care if they do or not

Well I certainly care. The more who care and share... the better odds we have that Trump won't pick any more USSC justices.

[Cha]

175. Fred Guttenberg is talking about the Primary.

[The Mouth]

176. Good

It wasn't at all clear from the original post.

[emmaverybo]

226. Maybe reread his tweet. He is not supporting Bernie in the primary.

[Cha]

148. That's too bad.. I stand with Fred Guttenberg.

[George II]

3. In case anyone didn't know who Fred Guttenberg is:

My daughter is Jaime Guttenberg. She was murdered in Parkland Florida on February 14, 2018. I will dedicate the rest of my life to the cause of gun safety.

No doubt Mr. Guttenberg was blocked by Sirota less than 30 seconds later.

[Cha]

5. More from Fred Guttenberg on Sanders..

Link to tweet

Thank you, George, for Mr Guttenberg's mission in life.. after his daughter, Jamie was murdered by heinous gun violence.

[George II]

10. The families and friends of the victims of the Sandy Hook shooting were also disrespected by Sanders

[Cha]

15. I remember that.. unthinkable what

he said about ".. not owing them an apology..

Sanders: I don't owe Sandy Hook victims' families an apology

https://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/dem-primaries/276402-sanders-i-dont-owe-sandy-hook-victims-families-an-apology

I'm sure Mr Guttenberg knows that, too.

Mahalo for the reminder, George

[NurseJackie]

22. Disqualifying.

Anyone who hopes to get my vote to become our party's nominee in hopes to be elected the Leader of the Free World needs to be able to show compassion. He (or she) will be someone who will listen and doesn't blame victims. He (or she) will be someone who isn't afraid to admit mistakes, or show emotion, or share grief.

[Cha]

158. An update from FG.. which comes as no surprise whatsoever..

Link to tweet

[George II]

159. Yes, not surprising whatsoever.

[Cha]

162. In fact.. PREDICTABLE.

[NurseJackie]

60. Those comments were crude and woefully ill-informed. He's sidestepping.

[Cha]

71. Tone deaf.

[sheshe2]

8. Jaime.

[Cha]

38. Beautiful family, she! Thank you so much for their pic!

[Eliot Rosewater]

46. Fred sure wishes we didnt know who he is, as in if this didnt happen in the first place his

family wouldn't be torn apart by senseless shooting of guns that are unconstitutional to even HAVE outside of a locked, well regulated militia building.

No, Heller is not legitimate nor is the current court.

HAVING SAID THAT I wish Bernie would stop giving us reasons to say these things, I wish he would stop supporting these things and STOP BASHING our party because if he is the nominee we are going to need all the votes, and while I will vote for him I know people who wont.

Now that is EXACTLY WHAT WAS SAID in the past during another election about a DIFFERENT candidate.

I truly wish Bernie would stop so it will be EASIER for the party to support him if necessary, because as much as I dont like him, he is FAR better than rump.

[George II]

49. Amen.

[Cha]

239. Exactly

[Sloumeau]

7. Cha, thanks for posting this.

Last edited Wed Jan 1, 2020, 11:53 PM - Edit history (1)

[Cha]

150. ...

"Chambi"?

Just Cha.. you're Welcome, Sloumeau.. Thank you!

[Sloumeau]

151. I Fixed the "Chambi". I have no idea where that came from. I blame possessed autocorrect. :) eom

[Cha]

155. It's quite alright. I

just thought you should know.. in case you get a notion again. lol I kid!

LOl.. those auto-corrects are "possessed"!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

9. Sirota is being an asshole again.

Guttenberg didn't say he hated Bernie; he said he couldn't support him because he doesn't agree with his position on gun control. And it's perfectly OK to criticize Bernie for any reason he wants, including for trying to attract GOP voters who like his position on guns. Fred Guttenberg has a damn good reason for his opinion.

[BannonsLiver]

21. Reality is starting to set in with some in the Sanders campaign leadership team

[Cha]

188. I wish!

[Cha]

233. +1

[Cha]

252. Fred Guttenberg..

[Cha]

178. Yes, Fred Guttenberg does have excellent reasons

Not to vote for BS.

And, dsirota never stops.

[Sloumeau]

11. I am shocked to see David Sirota accusing Guttenberg of hating Bernie.

Also, I'm shocked, Shocked to find that gambling is going on in here.

[Cha]

180. yeah.. that's the only go to they have.. when

anyone doesn't like BS' policies.

Mahalo, Sloumeau

[still_one]

12. Remind me again why i would support a candidate who hires Briana Joy Gray and David Sirota?

[sheshe2]

13. This.

Jamie.

[Cha]

164. Mahalo for the pic of Jaime & her father, Fred.. here's an update

that we knew was coming.. FG is Not taking their shite.. Not even.

Link to tweet

[sheshe2]

165. This is disgusting.

Reminds me of something and I can't say it.

[aikoaiko]

17. And this is why I can't support you, Fred Guttenberg.

[Cary]

18. That sounds punitive nt

[NurseJackie]

19. Punitive isn't the word I'd have chosen... but it's safe.

Thanks for speaking out.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

23. Is Guttenberg running for something?

[aikoaiko]

25. No, but he's pushing for gun control laws.

If he is trying to frame Bernie as not being supportive of gun safety laws, then he is not being honest.

[NurseJackie]

28. Bernie Sanders and the Brady Bill... a review.

If he is trying to frame Bernie as not being supportive of gun safety laws, then he is a dishonest political player.

No... Fred Gutenberg isn't being dishonest at all.

Bernie Sanders and the Brady Bill... a review.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jul/10/generation-forward-pac/did-bernie-sanders-vote-against-background-checks-/

The Brady Act mandated that everyone who wanted to buy a handgun had to wait five days while local law enforcement ran criminal background checks. (After 1998, the firearm dealers became responsible for conducting the checks.)

But before Brady became law, it underwent many transformations. Sanders, elected to the House of Representatives in 1990, voted on it numerous times, virtually almost always in opposition:

• In May 1991, Sanders voted against a version that mandated a seven-day waiting period for background checks, but the bill passed in the House.

• The Senate decreased the waiting period to five days and the bill returned to the House. In Nov. 1991, Sanders voted against that version. Though it passed in the House, the Senate didn’t muster enough votes. The Brady bill and its gun control stance remained in limbo during 1992.

• After some back and forth, a version of the bill resurfaced that reinstated the five day waiting period. In November 1993, Sanders voted against that version but for an amendment imposing an instant background check instead (seen by some as pointless, as the technology for instant checks didn’t exist at the time).

• He also voted against an amendment that would have ended state waiting periods, and for an amendment giving those denied a gun the right to know why.

• The final compromise version of the Brady bill -- an interim five-day waiting period while installing an instant background check system -- was passed and signed into law on Nov. 30, 1993. Sanders voted against it.

[aikoaiko]

35. Bernie supports nearly all of what Guttenberg supports these days.

Bernie supports gun safety laws.


The thing about the Brady Bill is that Bernie wanted to wait for the Instant Background Check system.

Creating a waiting period that was going to become obsolete was a waste of time and resources and wouldn't save many if any lives.

[NurseJackie]

39. Define "nearly"

Bernie supports nearly all of what Guttenberg supports

Define "nearly" I've seen no evidence of this. Do you have any?

There seems to be a definitely failure to communicate when it comes to things like this. Just today, in fact, someone tried to tell me that BS votes with the Democratic party 99% of the time. (A number that's often repeated but which has no semblance to fact.)

Creating a waiting period that was going to become obsolete was a waste of time and resources and wouldn't save many if any lives.

I simply cannot support someone who views such things so flippantly and casually... as if those lives that weren't saved weren't very important or significant.

Jesus.

[aikoaiko]

55. I don't have much time for this, but here you go.

It looks like they are working toward the same gun safety goals to me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Guttenberg
From Wiki:

According to a report in The Guardian, Guttenberg's priorities include raising the minimum age to buy guns, adding a waiting period before gun sales, having a no-loopholes policy for a mandatory background check of the gun buyer, and banning high-capacity ammunition magazines and bump stocks.

From https://berniesanders.com/issues/gun-safety/

Take on the NRA and its corrupting effect on Washington.
Expand background checks.
End the gun show loophole. All gun purchases should be subject to the same background check standards.
Ban the sale and distribution of assault weapons. Assault weapons are designed and sold as tools of war. There is absolutely no reason why these firearms should be sold to civilians.
Prohibit high-capacity ammunition magazines.
Implement a buyback program to get assault weapons off the streets.
Regulate assault weapons in the same way that we currently regulate fully automatic weapons — a system that essentially makes them unlawful to own.
Crack down on “straw purchases” where people buy guns for criminals.
Support “red flag” laws and legislation to ensure we keep guns out of the hands of domestic abusers and stalkers
Ban the 3-D printing of firearms and bump stocks

[Cha]

77. I trust Fred Guttenberg to know what he's talking about..

Link to tweet

[aikoaiko]

78. trust through tweets.

[Cha]

118. Keep laughing.. Fred Guttenberg is exaclty right about BS..

Link to tweet

• The final compromise version of the Brady bill -- an interim five-day waiting period while installing an instant background check system -- was passed and signed into law on Nov. 30, 1993. Sanders voted against it.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jul/10/generation-forward-pac/did-bernie-sanders-vote-against-background-checks-/

[LanternWaste]

161. As absurd as mistrust through tweets

[Cha]

207. thank you!

[Cha]

217. "Nearly"?

[betsuni]

119. Very glad he has evolved.

[Cha]

213. But rogan says BS is "insanely consistent".

[betsuni]

215. People who say that don't want to think of Bernie as a politician.

It's silly. I keep seeing people say they were so disappointed by Obama that they became disillusioned, but if by some miracle Bernie became president after making so many promises... Imagine the disillusionment to come! In 2017 Bernie said that the best chance to get health care passed in the face of Republican opposition was to try for an ACA public option and lower Medicare age, which was the Democratic Party platform. He will compromise. Whoever the next president is, including Bernie, is going to do this. Republicans are not going to magically be nice because of imaginary rallies. He's a politician. It's sad to see people fooled this way.

[Cha]

225. Or the dreaded "Establishment"

[Cha]

189. I trust Fred Guttenberg on this.. not BS.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

29. He's a guy expressing his opinion. He is free to do that.

Evidently he doesn't care for Sanders' positions on gun control, including his vote against the 1993 Brady Bill that established national background checks, and for another bill that protects gun companies from lawsuits if their products are used in crimes. Those votes are facts.

[aikoaiko]

32. Of course he can. So can I about his opinions and politics.

See how that works.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

33. Sure, but he doesn't deserve to be trashed by a dishonest, vindictive bombthrower

like Sirota, who falsely accused him of hating Bernie and apparently thinks Bernie should be immune from criticism. Guttenberg never expressed any hatred of Bernie, only that he opposes him because of his gun safety votes.

[Cha]

243. Exactly.

[Cary]

34. So you would punish him for not being for Bernie Sanders

by not supporting gun control which is what Gutenberg is for.

Good thinking.

[aikoaiko]

36. Its not that he doesn't support Bernie, its the framing that Bernie is opposed to gun safety laws

There's a difference.

From what I've heard, Bernie supports the gun control Guttenberg seeks.

[Cary]

123. I am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but you did not refute my summary

You don't deny being punitive against Guttenberg for his assessment of Sanders and "from what I've heard..." is a weak denial regarding Sanders' stance on gun control. So my understanding stands.

smh

[aikoaiko]

124. You don't have to give me the benefit of the doubt.

I have no interest in confirming or denying your question about being punitive. I prefer to think of my position on Gutenberg as consequentialist.

I posted details on Bernie’s stance on guns in relation to Gutenberg’s in post 55.

I expect nothing from you.

[Cary]

129. I don't have to do anything

Nor does your interest affect me.

Still you have not refuted my observations nor my observation of your non-response.

If that is the case, why be defensive? If you feel that you are justified in being punitive then be honest and own it.

[Cha]

212. Fred Guttenberg knows BS' record.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

202. I CLEARLY see the difference aikoaiko... so do others. The problem is, this involves Bernie...

and, you should know by now, NOTHING Bernie does will EVER be good enough. Why?! BECAUSE HE'S BERNIE!! You can't even misspell his name without receiving ridicule.

Even though I would never vote for Biden in the primary, unless he's the last Democrat running, I can still find good things to say about him, and DO, when he's occasionally right about something or if he makes some stride on his campaign, whether it's a poll, an endorsement, or if Joe evolves on some issue... but, for others, NOT WHEN IT COMES TO BERNIE, as that would go against the #1 Rule of Bernie Bashing: ALWAYS look for ANY opportunity to bash Bernie, careful to NEVER give him credit for ANYTHING!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Cha]

248. Fred Guttenberg doesn't want Sanders to be the nom.. I agree.

[Cha]

230. Fred Guttenberg doesn't like BS' past

record

[Cha]

193. Express away.. I'll take Fred Guttenberg's opinion

over yours.. see how that works?

[George II]

45. Who famously said:

"Guns in Vermont Are Not the Same Thing As Guns in Chicago or Guns in Los Angeles"

Newsflash: Someone shot and killed in Vermont is just as dead as someone shot and killed in Chicago or Los Angeles.

[aikoaiko]

68. That's probably why he didn't say that death in VT is not the same thing as death in LA or Chicago

[Cha]

192. "Guns in Vermont Are Not the Same Thing As Guns in Chicago or Guns in Los Angeles"

[Demsrule86]

65. Bernie has not always been good on guns...why wouldn't Guttenberg be honest? And the GOP

do use the mental heath thing as an excuse...the reason instead of guns...so I find it disturbing as well.

[Paka]

81. Thank you.

Bernie strongly supports gun safety laws, but also recognizes that it is a complicated multi-faceted problem that includes mental health issues. Anyone who eliminates that aspect is being unrealistic.

[mopinko]

111. if bernie wants to point to one staged pic from 50 year ago to prove

he supports civil rights, he cant turn around and pretend he never had an A rating from the nra, and that there was some pie in the sky worth waiting for while people were dying in the streets.
pick one.

[betsuni]

115. +1

[scipan]

125. There are 2 falsehoods in your post. Guess which ones

And where are you getting these falsehoods from?

[mopinko]

135. are you calling me a liar?

or just an idiot?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

138. You posted something that is not close to accurate.

Your choice how to proceed...

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jan/20/bernie-sanders/bernie-sanders-nra-report-card-d-minus-most-recent/

The grades the gun lobby did have on file show Sanders has never exactly been in its favor, with one sort-of exception.

1992
D
1994
F
1996
F
1998
F
2000
F
2002
F
2004
D+
2006
C-
2012
D-

[Cha]

218. No there are NOT.

[sheshe2]

127. +1

[sheshe2]

37. Then I guess we can forget dad, he only lost his baby girl.

aikoaiko
17. And this is why I can't support you, Fred Guttenberg.

Do you have it in your heart to support Jaime? She was about to turn 15.



We need gun control. Laws and regulations and we needed them decades ago.

[aikoaiko]

41. Yes I do support gun control, but I wouldn't do it by smearing Bernie as anti-gun safety.

Or any candidate.

[Cha]

50. Fred Guttenberg does Not "smear" BS..

Link to tweet

[NurseJackie]

51. I keep waiting for that old worn-out chestnut: "Guns don't kill people. People kill people."

Any day now, I'm sure.

[Cha]

61. Good for Fred Guttenberg calling out BS for his avoiding

the real issue.

Link to tweet

[aikoaiko]

52. Everyone who is serious about reducing gun violence is also talking about mental health treatment

Mental health is not his only position on reducing gun violence, but if you are informed by tweets I can see why you might think that.

[Cha]

149. But that's Not all they should be

talking about which is Fred Guttenberg's point.

[aikoaiko]

153. And Bernie isn't only talking about mental health in the context of gun violence.

from https://berniesanders.com/issues/

Take on the NRA and its corrupting effect on Washington.
Expand background checks.
End the gun show loophole. All gun purchases should be subject to the same background check standards.
Ban the sale and distribution of assault weapons. Assault weapons are designed and sold as tools of war. There is absolutely no reason why these firearms should be sold to civilians.
Prohibit high-capacity ammunition magazines.
Implement a buyback program to get assault weapons off the streets.
Regulate assault weapons in the same way that we currently regulate fully automatic weapons — a system that essentially makes them unlawful to own.
Crack down on “straw purchases” where people buy guns for criminals.
Support “red flag” laws and legislation to ensure we keep guns out of the hands of domestic abusers and stalkers
Ban the 3-D printing of firearms and bump stocks

[Cha]

156. BS did then and that was Fred

Guttenberg's Excellent Point.

[sheshe2]

53. I do not see a smear.

I see a grieving father that lost his daughter, 14 years old. All you see is a smear on your candidate and not a Childs life. Never said he was anti....he is however lax in gun regulation because VT loves to hunt. They sure don't need automatic rifles to do so.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

59. Where's the smear? He said only that he won't support Bernie

because of his gun control votes. He didn't lie or misrepresent those positions. No smears anywhere - but it seems like you're not allowed to disagree with Bernie lest you be accused of smearing him.

[aikoaiko]

64. The smear is that Bernie doesn't care about gun safety.

[Cha]

206. BS' voting record is open to the public

[Cha]

116. That's exactly true!

[MontanaMama]

105. Not supporting BS's stance on gun control

does not equal hating Bernie. Fred Guttenberg has more skin (literally) in the game than most. Why does any criticism of BS get blown up as “hate” for Bernie? Jesus it’s ridiculous. So BS’s less that strong support for gun control is a deal breaker for some folks...it doesn’t mean they’re hating on Bernie...it means they don’t support him which is their right.

Oh no... how can that be?

Holy gawd this is getting stupid.

[betsuni]

109. Yes!

[Cha]

117. They blow it up with their accusations..

because that's all they have. Like it's going to change anyone's mind about BS' gun voting record.

Link to tweet

• The final compromise version of the Brady bill -- an interim five-day waiting period while installing an instant background check system -- was passed and signed into law on Nov. 30, 1993. Sanders voted against it.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jul/10/generation-forward-pac/did-bernie-sanders-vote-against-background-checks-/tr

Mahalo, MontanaMama~

[Cha]

253. Precisely, MontanaMama..

Link to tweet

[MontanaMama]

254. "They can't stop us"??? Who the eff is THEY?

So BS isn’t a Dem or a repuke...WTF is he? This revolution seems intent on burning it all to the ground. For a guy who doesn’t have a history of passing much if any legislation...this seems to be going nowhere good,

[Cha]

255. yeah.. not good

[NurseJackie]

44. Someone recently told me...

Someone recently told me...

Creating a waiting period that was going to become obsolete was a waste of time and resources and wouldn't save many if any lives.

... so I can only presume based on that "logic" that there's an acceptable level of loss-of-life in exchange for no waiting period.

Charming, eh?

[sheshe2]

128. Sigh

... so I can only presume based on that "logic" that there's an acceptable level of loss-of-life in exchange for no waiting period.

[Cha]

234. Good time to kick this

with gun safety being discussed in the debate.

[TexasTowelie]

43. Is Fred Guttenberg running for office?

It appears that you don't have any empathy for a man who lost his daughter because of gun violence.

[Cha]

48. And, this is WHY I Do Support Fred Guttenberg FOR

Sensible Gun Laws.. his mission in Life For his Daughter, Jamie.

Link to tweet

[Cha]

179. I'm guessing Fred Guttenberg doesn't care.

[Cha]

196. We Support Fred Guttenberg.

[pnwmom]

20. Imagine being a speechwriter/journalist who doesn't know

that Fred Guttenberg is a grieving father, not a Democratic pundit.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

24. Oh, he knows. He just doesn't care.

It is not permitted to criticize Bernie.

[myohmy2]

26. "I absolutely cannot support @BernieSanders"

...oh, I get it...

...we have to support whomever the nominee may be, but you don't have to...

...something more to think about come November...

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

30. Guttenberg isn't posting on DU. He opposes Sanders as a primary candidate,

as do many DUers. I doubt very much that Guttenberg will vote for Trump in the general election.

[NurseJackie]

31. That's not what he said.

Fact of the matter is, @BernieSanders is not running to be president. He's currently running to be the Democratic nominee. This is very simple: Mr. Gutenberg cannot support BS in his quest to become the nominee.

[sheshe2]

42. Thank you!!!

[Cha]

57. Yeah, you "think" on that and get it Straight what Fred

Guttenberg actually said.

Link to tweet

[myohmy2]

97. "Yeah, you "think" on that..."

...don't be mean, remember your blood pressure...

[Cha]

98. Keeping thinking..

[LongtimeAZDem]

169. False premise

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

204. Yes, but haven't you heard?! When it comes to BERNIE, an entirely different standard applies!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[handmade34]

27. I stand with Fred

[Chicago1980]

87. Kind of a silly place to be standing...

One the edge of a cliff, on one leg, with your eyes closed.

This isn't the time for political purity or a protest vote at the polls.

Too much is at stake to have that foolishness.

[orangecrush]

40. That makes 2 of us.

[Tiggeroshii]

47. I disagree with Bernie on some gun issues.

If I was a one sub issue voter, I too would be against him.

[Cha]

143. Fred Guttenberg wants what's

best for America and the Planet like we all do.

[SidDithers]

54. DU rec...nt

Sid

[PJMcK]

56. "By the way, remind me again, is Bernie a Democrat or an independent?"

This is a fundamental that has always bothered me about Senator Sanders.

Hey, Bernie! Pick a side and commit to it.

It really shouldn't be that difficult.

[NurseJackie]

63. Well... there's this.

[Zeus69]

89. Nothing else is needed

By the Trump team

[NurseJackie]

95. Oh, there's more. There's a clip (a debate? a town-hall?) where he's...

Oh, there's more. There's a clip (a debate? a town-hall?) where he's boasting about being a Socialist.

Well, I'm a proud Democrat... I don't vote for Socialists.

[highplainsdem]

58. Thanks for posting this, Cha! K&R!

[ritapria]

62. Bernie has been fighting the good fight for over 50 years

Fighting Social Security and Medicare cuts.... The Rise of the Military Industrial Complex…… He was arrested during the Civil Rights Movement ….. He supported Gay Rights when it was a terribly unpopular stance to take .. Bernie lead the fight against the disastrous Iraq War when 70% of the country supported it ...Opposed NAFTA …. He shamed Amazon and Disney into paying their workers 15 bucks an hour ..Once again he is the leading the fight for Universal Healthcare - standing firm while all the others backtrack and equivocate ……… Is he a Saint Bernard ? No ….But he is a terribly cool old cat …...That is why the young people love him ...

[Paka]

85. +1

[LiberalLovinLug]

66. Wow all the Bernie bashers together in one thread!

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/campaign/375927-gun-control-push-complicates-sanderss-2020-ambitions%3famp

Sanders has long supported banning semi-automatic weapons, voting for the federal assault weapons ban in 1994. He's also voted against concealed carry reciprocity - a top agenda item for the NRA - and for 2013 legislation conceived after the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting that would have banned high-capacity magazines and reinstituted the assault weapons ban.

Arianna Jones, a Sanders campaign spokeswoman, told The Hill in a statement that presidential politics isn't factoring into Sanders's gun views. She specifically cited his stance on the assault weapons ban in a statement to The Hill, arguing that Sanders is on the right side of the issue.

"The senator is not concerned about any potential 2020 race - he's concerned about the very real epidemic of gun violence and mass shootings plaguing our country," she said.

"Sen. Sanders stands with the vast majority of the American people who are in the shared fight for safer gun laws and against the NRA's corporate influence and ability to buy candidates and elected officials. This isn't the time to play politics, it's time to work together in order to create policy that reflects the urgency of our current situation."

[Cha]

73. NO.. all those Supporting Fred Guttenberg's Fight For

Sensible Guns Laws because of his daughter, Jamie, are here on this thread.. and then of course those that are trying to distract from what Fred Guttenberg is saying.

Link to tweet

[guillaumeb]

67. So, Mr. Guttenberg,

if Sanders were to be the candidate of the Democratic Party, would you vote for a different candidate?

[NurseJackie]

72. Ask him again if he actually becomes our party's nominee...

Ask him again if he actually becomes our party's nominee... which he won't. The BS followers are loud and loyal... only problem is, there just aren't enough of them.

[Kurt V.]

69. fred is a one issue activist. Understandably so. he's a hero of mine which is very few.

he isn't seeing the bigger picture.

[Blue_true]

99. Because a person has an issue that they see as most important doesn't

make them a one issue activist.

Using your argument, those of DU that criticize Biden for the Iraq War Resolution vote are one issue activists, since Biden has far more texture to his political career than that one vote.

[Cha]

107. Exactly. So no one can dismiss it .. as

FG is a one issue voter.. or that he "isn't seeing the bigger picture".

All of us who don't want BS to be the nom are most certainly seeing the bigger picture.

[Blue_true]

133. Cha, you seem to be fully aware of the double standard that is used

against anyone who dares out poll Bernie. That is disheartening, I have not questioned the decency of most Bernie supporters here, they seem to be decent enough people, I do question the rose-colored glasses that most of them seem to wear.

[Cha]

108. Fred Guttenberg most certainly is

seeing the bigger picture.. as are all of us who are Not voting for BS in the Primary.

[TexasTowelie]

70. K&R! nt

[yaesu]

74. gee, another trumpster's opinion, who cares? nt

[Blue_true]

100. The guy loaths Trump.

He is fighting for saner guns laws because if we had them, he may not have buried his teen daughter.

[JoeOtterbein]

75. I hope he would support Bernie over...

...Trump!

[Cha]

76. That's Not what he's saying.. this is the Primary.

[JoeOtterbein]

79. This is from Fred's tweet:

"I am hopeful for another candidate or every bit of my energy will be focused on flipping the Senate..."

Sounds like a threat to me.

[Cha]

82. Too bad.. Fred Guttenberg is telling why he doesn't BS

to be the nom.

Link to tweet

[sheshe2]

131. I have no clue how you are reading that as a threat.

None at all. He states that he is "hopeful" for another candidate. Since this is the primary one can safely assume he speaks about his primary vote. He made no mention of the GE.

Also we should all be concentrating on flipping the Senate from red to blue.

[Cha]

132. Yeah, that wasn't a nice way to describe

Fred Guttenberg as making a "threat".. in fact insulting."

Mahalo, she

[sheshe2]

134. IKR?!

I see no threat at all.

I see a Dad who lost his 14 year old baby girl. He wants justice for her and others like her. He wants to stop the slaughter of innocents.

[Cha]

142. Perfectly said, she!

2020!

[Gothmog]

94. Only if sanders is the nominee

I really doubt that sanders will be the nominee. I will support the nominee but I strongly doubt that sanders will the nominee. There are too many real democrats who remember what sanders has done with respect to gun manufacturers and these real democrats will not forget or forgive.

[Blue_true]

101. Distortion much.

That is totally NOT what he is saying. Bernie has basically skated by on his history with gun control legistlation. Some people want him held accountable.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

205. Hope youre right, but then its Bernie we're talkin bout;would be a shame, but not a surprise if PUMA

re-emerges as the battlecry against Bernie. Though, the more Bernie gets dissed, the more he gains new supporters who continue to jump on the Bernie Bandwagon!!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Rob WA]

80. Okay...

So much for unity and a commitment to support the nominee. Whoever it might be.

I post an article critical of Biden on social media today. I got a response telling me to cut the bullshit. He then went on to angrily state that he hopes that Sanders gets hit by a truck.

So it begins. The party falls apart before primaries have even started. Sad, but not unexpected.

[Chicago1980]

83. The kind of bullshit argument we don't need.

Saying 'absolutely' is the first problem.

I'm not a big Sanders fan, but if he wins the nomination, I will without hesitation vote for him.

Stop with the goddamn purity. NOT NOW!

[Cha]

96. Fred Guttenberg is talking about the Primary..

and it's not him that does the "gd purity".

[Cha]

199. This is the Primary! IT's Not Fred Guttenberg

who is running "purity campaign".

[paleotn]

84. You can't win them back. You can't. So stop saying that Bernie can.

The ones who could be reasoned with left IQ45 and his merry band of Rethuglican sycophants and assholes months ago. What's left can't be reasoned with. They can't be swayed. And they can't be changed. If this unmitigated disaster of an administration can't sway them to the side of good and right, nothing can. Don't waste time and energy. Go after those unregistered or those who just don't vote. Turn out the base. If you can't turn out the base, then we need someone who can.

[UniteFightBack]

86. Please someone fill me in on what and which GOP voters Bernie can woo? Every puke I know is hair on

fire with the thought of Sanders or Warren.

[McKim]

88. The First of Many

This is just the first of a barrage of attacks against candidate Sanders. I am not paying attention. Health Care for All is affordable and America deserves it!

[skh500]

90. Parkland was totally negligent.....stop blaming Bernie Sanders!!

I am very sorry Mr Guttenberg lost his child at Parkland, but he needs to understand what really happened.

The school district was totally negligent! The shooter was diagnosed at 3yrs of age and Broward county was suppose to provide special education services to him. They failed to provide the necessary services mandated by Federal and State Statute. Tallahassee did cite them in violation of the law after the shooting occurred.

Prior to the time of the shooting Parkland school personnel had decided the special ed student should be in a more restrictive setting. However, they procrastinated for months and NEVER provided the services.....until the student finally dropped out.

According to the local papers in Broward, the school district spent something close to $76,000 on PR to cover up their neglect.

Mr Guttenberg needs to talk to the retired Director of Special Ed and get the real story!! Instead of bashing Bernie Sanders. The one candidate who has helped people and talked the same line for 40 yrs.

He is probably more of a democrat (progressive) than most dems. Sen Reid selected him "Chair" of Veterans Affairs and he was awarded numerous awards by the vets. He was the ranking member of budget committee. That is more dem "Leadership" than a lot of dems. He is also noted as the Amendment King when in the House. Isn't he the one who just recently shamed Jeff Bezos (Amazon) into paying his employees $15.00 an hour?

The school district is the one to blame....not Bernie Sanders!!

[Gothmog]

93. I strongly disagree

This tragedy could have been prevented if there was adequate restriction on weapons of war. The fact that sanders voted to immunize weapon manufacturers from liability is a big negative with me. sanders has been wrong on gun issues for a long time

[Blue_true]

102. Bernie needs to answer for his past votes on gun legistlation.

The same people that are ok with holding a Biden vote against him forever are ok with Bernie skating by his past votes on gun legistlation.

[Cha]

110. Shame on you.. Fred Guttenberg did NOT say

Parkland was BS' fault.. quit trying to distract.. it's Not working.

Link to tweet

• The final compromise version of the Brady bill -- an interim five-day waiting period while installing an instant background check system -- was passed and signed into law on Nov. 30, 1993. Sanders voted against it.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jul/10/generation-forward-pac/did-bernie-sanders-vote-against-background-checks-/tr

He doesn't like BS for the Nom because of other gun issues he has with him.

[LongtimeAZDem]

171. Well, yeah, he kind of did:

Sanders, Guttenberg says, should have known better than to vote for the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act.

"Unfortunately, I, as a gun violence victim, am still paying a cost for his decision on PLCAA. That doesn't go away," he said.

https://m.cnn.com/en/article/h_2762f93a5a088aecd0a976aa09458fc8

[Gothmog]

91. I truly admire and respect Fred Guttenberg

This man lost a child and kept on fighting. He is a truly amazing man who is making a difference in the world

[Me.]

92. GRRRRR

David Sirota

[TheFarseer]

104. There are certainly reasons to not support Bernie

but his stance on gun control is really not one of them. He has a D- rating from the NRA and his views are very much in the mainstream for Democrats.

[Cha]

106. Fred Guttenberg does his homework..

Link to tweet

• The final compromise version of the Brady bill -- an interim five-day waiting period while installing an instant background check system -- was passed and signed into law on Nov. 30, 1993. Sanders voted against it.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jul/10/generation-forward-pac/did-bernie-sanders-vote-against-background-checks-/

[betsuni]

112. K&R

[Tarheel_Dem]

113. I'm with Fred. n/t

[brer cat]

120. K&R

[Hortensis]

121. With various possible reasons and not recognizing his name,

I didn't realize it would be the gun issue, but of course. Tragedy gives his voice extra meaning, but of course her father would also feel a need to speak up for his daughter who can't, not just himself.

[PhoenixDem]

122. David Sirota just loves to be spanked n/t

[Cha]

130. sirota is a divider..

[Cha]

183. ..

[LakeArenal]

126. Yeah, well, neither can I... in the primary.

It’s a big club.
Sadly should he be the candidate I will have to support him.

[LongtimeAZDem]

170. As will I; though if it comes to that, we'll likely lose the whole thing

[The Mouth]

139. Fuck. You. Fred.

That is all.

[MrsCoffee]

145. Really?

It hasn't even been two years since he lost his child to gun violence.

Imagine it being important to him.

[The Mouth]

147. I am presuming he means in the GENERAL election

In the primaries, whoever, whatever.

This sounds like he's saying 'Never Bernie', even if he's the nominee. If that isn't what's meant, then I have not the slightest opinion.

All that matters to me is that Trump doesn't pick the next couple of SCOTUS justices; everything else is just a preference.

As long as someone votes blue in the general fine, if not, to hell with them.

[Gothmog]

152. I understand and support Fred Guttenberg

Link to tweet

[R B Garr]

160. Fred is not alone.

[Gothmog]

163. A response from Fred Guttenberg

Link to tweet

[redqueen]

166. Don't see too many lectures in here.

The next time someone comes at voters on the left for not being blue no matter who, I can just whip this out as an example of hypocrisy.

[Gothmog]

168. I really think that the attacks on Mr Guttenberg are inappropriate

Link to tweet

[Cha]

172. Mahalo, Goth..

That's right.. if you're attacking a father who lost his daughter...

If you're attacking a father who lost his daughter in a school shooting because he's supporting candidates based on their gun record, you might need to log off and give twitter a rest for a little bit

[Gothmog]

173. Hey Cha

I really respect Fred Gutenberg

[Cha]

174. As do I.. a grieving father who puts

his grief to purpose for his daughter.. I think Joe Biden may have taught him that.. at least that's what Biden did.

[James48]

177. Jesus- Fred! will you please just STOP!

You are attacking a top tier candidate
Because he’s said Mental Health is a problem? Really?


Bernie is realistic- NO ONE will be elected if all they do is want to ban all guns. Let’s do what we can, make moves that have wide support, and STOP BASHING DEM Candidates simply because they focus on the mental health issues of our nation.

Just STOP IT!


I support Bernie- but I won’t tear down Joe Biden, or Elizabeth Warren, or Pete Buttigiege in the process. I’ll vote BLUE, no matter who, when the time comes. and I Hope that is Bernie!

[Cha]

181. No, I do NOT want Fred Guttenberg to stop

speaking his mind on BS. he needs to be held accountable.

Link to tweet

[totodeinhere]

182. I would hope that if Bernie gets the nomination that he will change his mind.

Whatever quibbles he might have with Bernie the alternative is unthinkable.

[The Valley Below]

184. Quibbles?

[Cha]

185. K

[RandySF]

186. K&R

[Gothmog]

187. Who is surprised that sanders supprters are attacking this fine man

Link to tweet

[Devil Child]

190. His choice, just as it's my choice to disregard anything Guttenberg has to say...

...regarding Sen. Sanders or anything he says concerning the primary choices. I doubt any supporters of Sen. Sanders will change their votes in reaction to his tweets. YMMV.

[tishaLA]

194. Is Stein-supporting Sirota the right person to kvetch about

people who hinder the chances of Democrats winning elections?

[The Mouth]

195. If he means in the primary, that's his right

If he means in the general? Fuck you Fred.

[Gothmog]

197. I love this ad

Link to tweet

[Cha]

198. Thank you for this, Goth

[Gothmog]

200. I really admire Fred Gutenberg

Link to tweet

?s=20

[OhZone]

201. I would definitely vote for Bernie in the General -

but I really worry about how the GOP will tar and feather him.

There is actual tape of him singing "this is my land," half naked in Moscow while it was still the USSR. And no, I am not kidding.

I think they will successfully tar him as a Commie, not just a Socialist.

Oh well.

[ehrnst]

203. It concerns me that he's the GOP choice for Dem candidate.

President Trump’s advisers see Senator Bernie Sanders as their ideal Democratic opponent in November and have been doing what they can to elevate his profile and bolster his chances of winning the Iowa caucuses, according to Republicans familiar with the plans.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/14/us/politics/trump-sanders-bloomberg-2020.html

I think that they are holding back on attacking him for that reason, and will unleash the full oppo treatment should he become the nominee.

[democrattotheend]

208. Bernie's from Vermont

A state that, despite being liberal on almost everything else, is very pro-gun, because the state is both rural and has a low crime rate. His stance on guns as a senator from Vermont isn't necessarily how he'd be as president. Plus, it will be nice not to have to deal with the "he'll take away your guns" scare crap if he gets the nomination.

[Cha]

209. We all know that.

[Gothmog]

210. The attacks by sanders supporters on this man disgust me

Link to tweet

?s=20

[Amimnoch]

211. Yep. And that feeling is growing fast.

After all these years of BS's acolytes telling us "we can't win without him and his devoted" they may just end up finding out that while it's difficult for us to win without them, it'll be downright impossible for him to have ANY chance of winning without us.. and he's done sooo much to win all of us actual, long time Democratic Party supporters over, now hasn't he?

[Cha]

221. Mahalo, Amimnoch.. I just Updated the OP

for the latest from Mr Guttenberg

[Amimnoch]

222. Thanks for that update! They're dowright insulting imo.

So insulting that they think it's totally okay that their supporters are in no way shape or form obligated to support any of our long term, ACTUAL Democratic Party candidates, but have this ridiculous expectation that if he manages to get the nomination, that it's our obligation to fall in line like good little soldiers and get behind him. The double standard is disgusting, and from what I'm seeing around me, from the homes I've been canvassing while working for the Liz Fletcher, and MJ Hegar campaigns, in my own social circles, and on other sites where you are not obligated by rules to at least pretend you will support him if he wins are more and more deciding that they've had enough of him and aren't so willing to after all. anyone but bern or bust is a trending hash that's growing legs.

For the benefit of our country, I hope that he and his campaign gets their act together on this division they continue to sew, because as I said above.. their claims that we won't win without their support may be true, but he has absolutely NO shot at it without the "Democratic Party Establishment" banding together behind him if he does manage to pull off the primary.

We have won without his supporters before.. the revers cannot be said.

[Cha]

224. Threats?

[Gore1FL]

214. So he'd vote Trump over Sanders or not vote at all?

He'd get driven off of DU for that attitude.

[Scurrilous]

216. K&R

How did I miss this one Cha? Great job.

[Gothmog]

219. Fred Guttenberg-sanders is again showing that dealing with gun violence is not a priority.

Link to tweet

[Cha]

220. omg.. I should UPDATE OP..

Link to tweet

Thank you, Goth!

[Gothmog]

223. You are welcomed

I follow Fred on Twitter. As a parent, I cannot imagine the pain this man has suffered and I really admire him

[Cha]

227. I feel the same.. as a parent.

[Gothmog]

228. My heart bleeds for this man

Link to tweet

[Cha]

229. I know, Goth.. Thank you so much for

adding this to the thread!

[Gothmog]

231. When I saw that it was this father who spoke out, I knew why

[Vivienne235729]

232. Mahalo, Cha! It's me AgadorSparticus. Hope you have been well.

[Cha]

237. Aloha!

sounds familiar.. I do remember.. how you been?!

[Gothmog]

235. I am also glad that Biden discusses sanders' sad record

Link to tweet

[NurseJackie]

236. He's right, you know? I feel the same way. Fred speaks for me.

[Gothmog]

240. These attacks by sanders supporters are sad

Link to tweet

?s=20

[Cha]

241. JHC.. I didn't know they went that far.

[Bradical79]

242. Understandable

Though I think in reality all the candidates will be about the same on gun control should they win the Presidency.

[Gothmog]

244. Here is another reason to not support sanders

Link to tweet

[Cha]

245. Wow.. this needs to go Viral!

Thank you, Goth

[Gothmog]

246. I am pissed by this stunt

[Cha]

247. It's a stupid stunt.. Retweeted Fred's tweet..

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

249. Has sanders condemned this stunt yet?

Link to tweet

?s=20

[Gothmog]

250. I support Fred's incredible advocacy to #EndGunViolence !

Link to tweet

[Cha]

251. Thank you..

[Gothmog]

256. Fred is worried about down ballot candidates

Link to tweet

[Cha]

257. Excellent info... Thank you, Fred..

Thanks Goth!

[dalton99a]

258. +1

[Gothmog]

259. Fred has some good comments here

Link to tweet

[Cha]

260. Thank you, Fred.. Retweeted!

Mahalo Goth.. you know what I think of that.

[Gothmog]

261. Fred Guttenberg endorses Joe Biden

Link to tweet

[Cha]

262. Oh Wow.. this should be an OP

Mahalo, Goth.

Link to tweet