It's Bernie, not Biden, who has the electability problem

[Gothmog]

Link to tweet

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) has decided to attack Joe Biden, claiming that the moderate former vice president, who sits atop virtually every national poll with solid African American support, is somehow unelectable. His argument is that Biden couldn’t possibly be elected because he voted for the Iraq War nearly 20 years ago and for the North American Free Trade Agreement 27 years ago. There is no data to support that argument and, logically, one would think that running as a self-described socialist now is a much bigger electability problem than Biden’s past votes, but we do not have to speculate.

Some of Sanders’s signature, super-progressive issues play very poorly in swing states. The Kaiser Family Foundation’s Blue Wall Voices Project last year found that “large shares of swing voters in Michigan, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin say stopping detainments at the U.S. border for people cross into the country illegally and a national Medicare-for-all plan are ‘bad ideas.’ ”
Moreover, polling over the last week or so shows clearly that picking Sanders would be a gamble. While he once was leading outside the margin of error in head-to-head matchups against President Trump, he is now losing or at best within the margin of error while Biden continues to be the most viable candidate against Trump.....

Moreover, given that Democratic victories are heavily dependent on African American turnout, it is difficult to see that Sanders, who gets a fraction of the African American support that Biden does, could turn out a bigger African American vote than Biden could. (Recall that in the 2016 primary, Hillary Clinton walloped Sanders among African American voters.) In the latest Fox News South Carolina poll, Biden gets 43 percent of the African American vote, Sanders just 12 percent.

And finally, remember that in the 2018 midterms, super-progressive candidates endorsed by Sanders did not flip a single House seat from red to blue. All those House seats were flipped by Biden-type moderates.

There will be a debate next week. That might be a good moment to quiz Sanders on where his claim to superior electability comes from. So far, there is not a whole lot — if any — evidence to back up his boast.

[James48]

1. Everybody has their own opinion.

As for me- I'm with Bernie.

[Gothmog]

3. I want to defeat trump

I will support the nominee of the party. I also want to defeat trump and I doubt that sanders can beat trump

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Scotch-Irish]

106. We're supposed to take the word of a loser?

That makes sense to whom?

[Cha]

192. He's Not the only one who feels this way..

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

11. Yes, me too!! Bernie is the only electable candidate, as he's the only one who speaks to the base

and the bold progressivism that the working class demands in this election cycle. Moderate incrementalism will not defeat tRumpty Dumbty.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[The Valley Below]

28. The base of what?

Certainly not the base of a party he's never bee a member of and whose ideology he does not share:

I am not now, nor have never been, a liberal Democrat

Unlike Sen Sanders, I have ALWAYS been a liberal Democrat. I'm part of my party's base. I always show up to vote. Always. And ALWAYS vote for Democrats. Democrats ONLY!

[ArcticFox]

93. Bernie speaks ro those who recognize the system has been corrupted

Those the corruption works against. Those who put country and their sisters and brothers above party politics.

The base of the USA, in other words.

[The Valley Below]

98. Nah. The "base" isn't those who attack our party as "corrupt."

You've just illustrated why Sanders will not be the nominee of a party that he and his followers attack and of which he is not a member.

Not "base," but "off-base."

[ArcticFox]

107. Great. Stick with the denial.

The whole system's corrupt is what I said. In my opinion, Democrats should try to fix it, not deny the fact.

[The Valley Below]

108. You are slandering the Democratic Party.

Bad move.

[ArcticFox]

115. Bull

Our Constitutional Republic is on the brink as a result of decades if Congress ceding power to the executive and not addressing Supreme Court rulings handing the reigns to anonymous rich and powerful people the world over, and you accuse me if slandering the Democratic Party?

Get real, man.

I'm saying Democrats are the only hope, but we need to wake up and fix this corrupt system or we're doomed.

[NBachers]

134. You can't fix it with somebody who ain't going to win the election!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

165. YES, PRECISELY WHY BERNIE, NOT JOE, SHOULD BE THE DEMOCRAT WE NOMINATE TO RUN AGAINST DOLT45!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[ArcticFox]

168. Did you think Hillary would win?

[NBachers]

176. Remember Nader voters who refused to vote for Gore, but kept their "principles & ideals" intact?

I thought Gore would win.

Maybe something similar happened with Hillary . . .

Keep swarming

[samnsara]

37. but no ones base alone is whats going to win the nom or the election...

..we need crossovers and I's..

[olegramps]

55. Who, pray tell me is his base? He is a spoiler who cost Hilary the election.

He spouts the same crap as Trump on trade treaties and tariffs. How the hell is that working out? I will tell you. The Chinese are far more clever than Trump and only tariffed those products that they could obtain from other sources. Pulling out of the TPP has been a disaster. China has entered into numerous agreements and is dancing in the street at our stupidity. They will soon dominate the entire Asian market. Their bandwagon is a selling Snake Oil.

[Normanart]

64. Just a note

The electoral college cost Hillary the election

[Eliot Rosewater]

79. nonsense

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

118. The electoral college DID cost Hillary the election, as she herself admitted...

and President Sanders will use the bully-pulpit to eliminate it!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[olegramps]

181. If you believe he can eliminate Electoral College you are seriously uninformed.

The best chance of curbing the electoral college is by getting states to cast all electoral votes for the majority winner. I was working on this in Colorado before I left and it just recently obtained a majority support for this change. We are getting closer and what the hell can Bernie do, he doesn't even support the Democratic Party, just uses it to spread a pile of unworkable bull crap. Evidently, a lot of uninformed Democrats are backing Sanders without even considering that what he proposes is exactly what Trump has imposed on our economy with his damn tariffs.

[Eliot Rosewater]

78. Only? what in the FUCK ...DEAR GOD

My god...

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

100. Please put down the pennants and pompoms for a minute and explain who the "base" is,

what percentage of the electorate comprises the so-called "base," and why you think that percentage will be enough to beat Trump.

31% of Americans identify as Democrats and 38% as independents. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_party_strength_in_U.S._states Of those Democrats, 39% call themselves moderates, while 46% say they are liberals (which isn't necessarily the same as progressive). https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/06/26/facts-about-democrats/ 46% (self-identified liberal Democrats) of 31% (all Democrats) is 14%, the total percentage of the population that consider themselves to be liberal Democrats. And not all liberal Democrats will vote for Bernie. Some will vote for Warren. Others will vote for Biden, Buttigieg or others; all of our candidates are liberals. I am a liberal Democrat who will vote for a candidate other than Bernie in my primary. I am not part of his "base." More importantly, you can't win a national election with only your narrow collection of cheerleaders and fanboys. You need a broad coalition and a big tent, not a doctrinaire base.

[emmaverybo]

160. [phone]

[olegramps]

182. right on!!

[mcar]

149. He's not speaking to the Democratic Party's base

That is women and people of color - primarily black women. What base are you speaking of?

[brush]

157. Any Dem needs more than the base. Repugs will paint Sanders 24/7...

as a socialist. And there are videos all over youtube of Sanders himself saying, "I am a socialist." He's been saying it for decades.

We Dems have to come to grips with political reality. America is not going to elect a socialist. Sanders is unelectable because of that.

If he gets the nod our republic is over and an unleashed trump who ignores Congress will be our first dictator.

Let's get real.

[Brewh]

57. Bernie

I'm 85, a vet, white, live in Mississippi and am absolutely ''with Bernie'' also James.
=

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

119. Nice having you aboard Brewh!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[emmaverybo]

101. The OP cited facts to suggest a reasonable inference, that Bernie, not Biden is the one with an

electability problem.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

143. ME TOO!! WELCOME ABOARD THE BERNIE BULLET TRAIN!!

NEXT STOP... THE WHITE HOUSE!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Me.]

2. It Always Strikes Me As Odd

when I feel compelled to say good read in regards to the former Republican, Miss Rubin

[totodeinhere]

91. I think we should embrace former Republicans. We need a lot more of them.

The fewer Republicans in this world the better as far as I'm concerned.

[Autumn]

4. In the GE I see it the other way around and I've seen nothing to convince me otherwise. nt

[Demsrule86]

12. I am sure you haven't...any evidence which by the way is plentiful...would be ignored. You support

your candidate...nothing wrong with that. I hope few feel as you do as I believe it dooms us to four more years of Trump...I use the word 'doom' purposefully.

[Autumn]

14. I believe our best hope to take the White House and get rid of Trump is Bernie or Liz.

Based on what I have seen from Biden so far he will not beat Trump.

[Locrian]

56. I completely agree

A lot of Biden's support is super thin, manufactured by the media/corporate fawning support an group think.

I do not think Biden would win against trump with all of the baggage Biden has

[LiberalFighter]

67. Manufactured? By the media/corporates?

When the media has all of the candidates except for Biden interviewed? Like when the media gave all of that free media coverage to Trump during 2016?

[Autumn]

111. Biden has very thin skin when it comes to his son as most parents are. Trump, Pukes and the media

will use Hunter all they can in the GE, even though he didn't do anything wrong. Joe has already gone off on an idiot at a town hall in Iowa over a stupid question about his Hunter. I think it will be worse in the GE.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

141. ANOTHER great point! Bernie doesn't let ANYTHING get to him, not even a heart attack for damn sake!!

Clearly, Bernie has the superior temperament, not to mention JUDGMENT, to be the Democratic nominee for President!! I believe Biden fans are slowly coming to this realization and, in time, will come over to Bernie's side.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Cha]

190. NO.. Biden is Tough.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

120. Joe's chances of beatin tRumpty Dumbty, puttin Joe's questionable voting record aside, are far less

than Bernie's chances, especially when you get into the nitty gritty of Bernie's bold progressive agenda that speaks to the working class base of the Democratic Party, compared to Joe's moderate incremental proposals.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Tweedy]

195. Former VP has a well of good will to draw from

No matter the nominee this will be a fight. We are the majority. We can only be defeated through a combination of division, dissatisfaction & dirty tricks.

The president has made it clear he will cheat. Too many GOP elected officials are tripping over themselves to say that is dandy by them.

Bet you the president will not debate.

Joe Biden has a deep well of goodwill with U.S. from which to draw which may protect him. It might not. This should neither be ignored, nor undermined.

Yes. Senator Sanders could win. He could lose, too.

They all could win, even the ever persistent John Delaney could win. They all could lose too.

We need a candidate who is this president's opposite. IMHO, the answer is Elizabeth Warren.

Nevertheless, let no one doubt any candidate we pick will be unfairly tarred. Our opponents are proud cheaters, who stand on our House and Senate floor and tell us wrong is right, right is wrong and continuously threatening that might makes right.

So far as I can tell, a lie aimed at the head of any of our candidates is a lie we must oppose no matter who is the smile behind the smear.

We don't need to be alternative facting to beat this president. That is his gig.

Senator Sanders' campaign has released two misleading ads undermining that goodwill in the last 2 weeks. Maybe an error by his campaign? 🤷?♀️
He needs to clean it up.

[totodeinhere]

94. I would not call poll results "evidence."

Yes we want our candidate to be leading in the polls but as we know painfully well, poll results are not always accurate.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

122. YES WE KNOW!! IF POLLS WERE ACCURATE, HILLARY WOULD HAVE BEATEN DOLT45 IN A LANDSLIDE!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

13. NO QUESTION!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[beastie boy]

16. You cannot prove a negative. The question is, what evidence makes you see the other way around?

[Autumn]

19. I think that Joe's temperament will be a real problem in the GE when Trump goes after him. nt

[beastie boy]

20. Can you point to any evidence that Bernie will do better?

As far as I am aware, Bernie never went head to head against Trump, never had to.. Bernie's temperament is almost completely untested in this respect. Joe's is, and he hasn't given an inch to Trump.

[Autumn]

23. For one I haven't seen Bernie go after a Democratic activist who worked on Obama's campaign

and tell him to vote for Trump as Biden did.

[beastie boy]

24. One more thing: absence of evidence is not evidence.

But nice try at deflecting.

[Autumn]

26. Nice that you ask a question and ignore the factual answer because you don't like it.

But then, if someone gives an opinion I'm not going to demand evidence of their opinion. I'm also puzzled by an insistence of evidence for an election that is in the future. Good luck with that game.

[beastie boy]

27. I like the answer, in a funny way, but it is n ot the answer to my question.

And you are welcome to your opinion, but not in response to a request for evidence.

[Autumn]

34. I gave an opinion on the electability of Bernie, Liz and Joe in the GE based on a current event

that highlights Joe's temperament. Since when does an opinion require evidence? Have you asked the OP for their evidence of their opinion other than the opinion of some twitter user they posted?

[beastie boy]

36. Since post #16, post #20 and post #24. All of them asking for evidence. All of them you responded to

with no evidence.

When you think of responding to a request for evidence and you have none, it's OK not to respond.

[Autumn]

42. YOU responded to me with your request for evidence of my opinion.

You are under no obligation to respond to me when I correctly pointed out I have no proof for an event that hasn't happened. You can scroll RTF on by.

[Autumn]

47. In post #19 I responded to you with my opinion. I see no reason, I have no need to

give you any evidence to anything I have not posted. You want any evidence about anything try Google. I'm not your search monkey.

[beastie boy]

50. Ummm... no. You didn't go to # 16

In it, I asked for evidence. YOU responded to it. With no evidence.

I can't bring anything more obvious on its face to your attention.

Good bye.

[LakeArenal]

83. And dismissively rolling on the floor laugh at anyone who disagrees or questions them.

Cutsies.

[Thekaspervote]

45. Joe's temperament??

Link to tweet

?s=21

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

146. ROTFLMFAO!! GOOD ONE AUTUMN!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[pfeiffer]

48. Autumn...you say a Democratic activist?

No, you mean a Bernie employee...that dude's not an activist, he's a Bernie employee, on Bernie's payroll, hired to disrupt and disrespect Joe Biden at Mr. Biden's townhall events.

[Autumn]

51. He's an activist who volunteered on Obama's campaign. He was hired by Bernie AFTER Trump told him

to vote for Trump.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

129. Excellent point! Joe's temperament gets him in trouble & is the source of so many of his gaffes.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[BeyondGeography]

53. Bernie hasn't challenged anyone to a push-up contest yet

You’ve got to give him that.

[beastie boy]

95. Maybe Bernie feels too old to be President...

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

132. True, though even a heart attack has not slowed Bernie down in the slightest...

so, I wouldn't bet against Bernie in a push-up contest!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[NBachers]

136. Go back and look at Joe's VP debates. Watch Joe's floor-mopping demonstration.

[Autumn]

137. How long ago were those debates?

The Joe I see today is not the Joe I saw then. The Joe I see today is not the Joe I saw as VP.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

142. Sure haven't seen any "floor-mopping" demonstrations by Joe in the Democratic primary debates.

Bernie, OTOH, is the "Mr. Clean" of debate floor-mopping when it comes to pointing out why he's the superior Democratic candidate, over Joe, to take on tRumpty Dumbty in the Fall!!

While other fellow Democrats have had some good debate performances, Bernie has cleaned Joe's clock on any number of progressive issues, including, but not limited to, healthcare, foreign policy, trade, climate change, wealth inequality, racial Injustice, women's rights... and the list goes ON and ON!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[samnsara]

38. just pinky swear to vote for the dem nom even if its a damn loaf of bread...

[George II]

130. We'll never know, since he won't be involved in the general election, unless of course he...........

[Autumn]

135. Yeah George. Whatever.

[BeyondGeography]

5. Whenever I need my beltway CW fix Jennifer Rubin is there

[ritapria]

6. Bernie ran for President in 2016

He started out 65% behind Hillary and won 1,850 delegates ….Joe ran for President twice and received zero delegates …..Who is more electable ?... Who generates more enthusiasm ? … Who will have a massive grass roots movement behind him the General ? Who will bring in new voters ? ….Whose trade policy will attract more votes in the critical Rust Belt States ?

[PatSeg]

8. Many people wanted Joe to run in 2016

and if his son Beau had not died, he would have. In that case, those numbers would have been much different and Biden would probably be President today.

Bernie is electable to a certain segment of voters, but Joe has a much broader appeal, which is necessary to win back the White House and actually implement progressive policies.

[LongtimeAZDem]

10. All of this +1

[samnsara]

39. yes joe would have won in 2016....

[PatSeg]

49. I've thought so for a long time

If more people could have seen what kind of a person he was, it would have been a no-brainer. Plus, he would have decimated Donald Trump the candidate.

[brutus smith]

76. So Joe would have beat out Hillary. Interesting.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

126. NOT A SNOWBALL'S CHANCE IN HELL!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

125. No way Joe could EVER have beaten Hillary in ANY race they both competed in.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[George II]

9. Joe Biden never lost a single primary. Remember, Biden had a long distinguished Senate career....

....and then served for eight years as a very respected and popular Vice President.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

21. He dropped out in 88 ...

... came in 5th in the 2008 Iowa caucus before dropping out.

I can’t wait to hear how this is explained as never having lost a primary.

Despite a few notable endorsements, Biden failed to garner significant support in opinion polls, and was marred by controversial comments made while campaigning. He ultimately dropped out of the race on January 3, 2008, after coming in fifth place and capturing less than 1% of the vote in the Iowa caucus.[4]

However, in September 1987, newspaper stories stated he had plagiarized a speech by British politician Neil Kinnock. Other allegations of past law school plagiarism and exaggerating his academic record soon followed. Biden withdrew from the race later that month.

[George II]

22. No explanation is necessary. He never lost a single primary. Not one.

[samnsara]

40. how far back is 1987?..even 2008 is ancient history..im sure all the candidates can be...

..shown to have made an unpopular decision when you go back that far...but its that a reason to let trump have 4 more years?


maybe we should all look at our candidates in HIGH SCHOOL??

[melman]

68. The game here

is that even though he totally flopped out twice, the fact that he didn't make it to the end means he never actually 'lost'.


Isn't that cute?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

105. He's pretending the one percent showing in...

... the Iowa caucus doesn’t count because it’s not a primary.

I guess caucuses that lead a candidate to drop out don’t count

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

138. By my count, Joe lost the Democratic primary elections in 1988 & 2008; thats 2 primary races he lost

But, the better question is: HOW AND WHY DID JOE LOSE THOSE 2 DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY ELECTIONS?!?!

No way Joe or his fans want to go there, but that's why the smart money is on BERNIE, who, without a doubt, has the least amount of baggage and, thus, the best chance of beating President Pig Vomit in November.

Once Joe has been properly vetted, the way Bernie has in the 2016 primary race and this one, this will become apparent to everyone and voters will come out in DROVES to support him!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

133. CUTE MALARKEY, YES!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[brutus smith]

80. He wasn't elected VP, he was appointed.

[MrsCoffee]

89. He was on the ticket that people voted for. He was elected.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

144. YOU BEAT ME TO IT... THANK YOU!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[TexasTowelie]

153. So if we nominate a Sanders/Warren ticket, then we get a team.

However, when we elected Obama/Biden we didn't get a team?

[Cha]

150. Biden was part of a TEAM who was ELECTED.

[brutus smith]

164. Joe didn't run for VP, Obama appointed him to the ticket.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

15. BOOOOOOOOMMM!!!! There's a good reason Biden lost the 1988 and 2008 primary elections he ran in...

Those two primary losses don't bode well in this, his third run, which is sure to also end badly for him. Were Joe to be nominated, he would surely lose 40+ states to tRumpty Dumbty, unlike Bernie, who would excite the base and bring a huge number of new Democrats to the party with him.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Drunken Irishman]

25. lmao you're bordering on parody right now.

No, that's a lie, you've gone full on parody if you actually believe Biden would lose 40+ states.

[samnsara]

41. you dislike biden so much....actually as much as I dislike BS..but I will swear to vote..

...for BS if hes the nom. Will you do the same if Joe or anyone else is the nom?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

123. Asked and answered DOZENS of times...though many here will pretend not to know.

(Not sayin' you necessarily.)


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[George II]

170. Which primary election has Biden lost? I'll answer that - NONE!

[LiberalLovinLug]

90. Oh snap!

Today I DECIDED!
I'm Sanders all the way. Warren a close second.

[comradebillyboy]

7. Here's the conclusion from Ms Rubin:

How does Sanders get away with his electability claim? Well, for one thing, the media never challenges him on it. Sanders, unlike Biden and certainly Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), gets raked over the coals for misstatements. Sanders does not seem to get the same scrutiny.

Moreover, given that Democratic victories are heavily dependent on African American turnout, it is difficult to see that Sanders, who gets a fraction of the African American support that Biden does, could turn out a bigger African American vote than Biden could. (Recall that in the 2016 primary, Hillary Clinton walloped Sanders among African American voters.) In the latest Fox News South Carolina poll, Biden gets 43 percent of the African American vote, Sanders just 12 percent.

And finally, remember that in the 2018 midterms, super-progressive candidates endorsed by Sanders did not flip a single House seat from red to blue. All those House seats were flipped by Biden-type moderates.

[BootinUp]

140. Spot on. Nt

[Zeus69]

17. Would not be surprised if Bernie is target during upcoming debate

Will be interesting

[Hassin Bin Sober]

18. Lol. Jennifer Rubin is a right wing hack.

Her own Ombudsman said she should be fired because she parrots every right wing theory for hits.

She’s a clown




https://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2013/08/ex-washington-post-ombudsman-fire-jennifer-rubin-170603

Have Fred Hiatt, your editorial page editor — who I like, admire, and respect — fire opinion blogger Jennifer Rubin. Not because she’s conservative, but because she’s just plain bad," Pexton writes in the letter, which was published by Washington City Paper.

"She doesn’t travel within a hundred miles of Post standards," Pexton argues. "She parrots and peddles every silly right-wing theory to come down the pike in transparent attempts to get Web hits.

[bahrbearian]

30. I know right ? They love to hold up Republicans views as how we should vote.

We have to stop listening to them. Scarborough, Schmidt, and the rest are not on our side.

[UniteFightBack]

33. Jennifer Rubin has been excellent and this proves you are not being objective. nt

[melman]

73. She's not excellent at all

Disliking Trump doesn't erase the fact that literally everything else about her is terrible.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

82. Which of her statements do you consider to be factually incorrect?

[empedocles]

29. The supporters for each of the Dem Prez candidates have seemed most reasonable, however, . . .

there is one group of suporters for 1 particular candidate, who seem to be, ah, on the opposite side of that spectrum.

[UniteFightBack]

31. Bernie self identifying as a Socialist is completely disqualifying !!! THE END. nt

[TheRealNorth]

59. As someone coming from a family of Milwaukee Socialists

I find your comment truly offensive.

Keep it up if you want to drive Bernie Supporters away from Biden should Biden win the nomination.

[UniteFightBack]

112. I come from a family of realists and it's disqualifying for a General Election. Come on man! nt

[brush]

162. Pls. face political reality.

Any Dem needs more than the base. Repugs will paint Sanders 24/7 as a socialist. And there are videos all over youtube of Sanders himself saying, "I am a socialist." He's been saying it for decades.

We Dems have to come to grips with political reality. America is not going to elect a socialist. Sanders is unelectable because of that.

If he gets the nod our republic is over and an unleashed trump who ignores Congress will be our first dictator.

Let's get real.

[TheRealNorth]

60. I would also add

You are also essentially saying "Blue no matter who, except for Sanders" because you have disqualified Sanders as a candidate in your mind.

[UniteFightBack]

117. So you are essentially saying that I would vote for dump.

I'm picking the person I think can win by the largest margin...remember that?
Especially with all the chicanery going on.

Obviously I wouldn't vote for Sanders in a primary, just like I didn't last time. But if it comes down to Sanders and dump I think that is just a moot question to pose to the vast majority of folks on this board. I find it highly offensive.

[TheRealNorth]

161. I understand the electability argument

But when you say someone should be disqualified, that's like saying they are unfit for the office. (In Bernie's case, because of his political beliefs).

And I say this as someone who voted for Hillary in the Primary in 2016 and (probably) will vote for Booker or Buttigieg in March. Although I shouldn't let it affect me, the attitudes of Biden supporters have really turned me off to supporting Joe in the Primary. I don't agree with all of Bernie's solutions, but I agree with him on the major problems and in his sincerity that he wants to address those issues.

[yellowdogintexas]

102. It's not that Socialists are not acceptable it's what the Rs will do with it

They are waiting until we have a nominee and if it is Bernie they will full on attack his Socialism, his trip to Russia on his honeymoon, and a bunch of other things. He will be raked over the coals.

We ain't seen nothin' yet. The trolls and bots will be all over this

[UniteFightBack]

114. Agreed. nt

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

124. A DEMOCRATIC socialist...in the mold of FDR. Bernie is moving the Democratic Party back to its roots

GOOD FOR BERNIE!! GOOD FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Gothmog]

186. trump would destroy sanders in a general election

Trump had a two foot thick book of oppo research on Sanders http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044

They ignored the fact that Sanders had not yet faced a real campaign against him. Clinton was in the delicate position of dealing with a large portion of voters who treated Sanders more like the Messiah than just another candidate. She was playing the long game—attacking Sanders strongly enough to win, but gently enough to avoid alienating his supporters. Given her overwhelming support from communities of color—for example, about 70 percent of African-American voters cast their ballot for her—Clinton had a firewall that would be difficult for Sanders to breach....

So what would have happened when Sanders hit a real opponent, someone who did not care about alienating the young college voters in his base? I have seen the opposition book assembled by Republicans for Sanders, and it was brutal. The Republicans would have torn him apart. And while Sanders supporters might delude themselves into believing that they could have defended him against all of this, there is a name for politicians who play defense all the time: losers....

The Republicans had at least four other damning Sanders videos (I don’t know what they showed), and the opposition research folder was almost 2-feet thick. (The section calling him a communist with connections to Castro alone would have cost him Florida.) In other words, the belief that Sanders would have walked into the White House based on polls taken before anyone really attacked him is a delusion built on a scaffolding of political ignorance.

[SunSeeker]

32. K & R

[dlk]

35. It's math-if someone can't win a primary, they can't win a general election

[maxsolomon]

43. They both have electability problems.

There isn't a Dem left that doesn't.

Thanks for weighing in, though, Jen.

[DCofVA]

46. I think both Biden and Sanders have electability problems...

...due to their excessive baggage. That’s one of the many reasons I think Warren is our best bet. She doesn’t have hardly any baggage to use in attack ads in the general election. She’s in the middle between Sanders to the left and Biden to the right, that makes her a great compromise for the two sides. And, she has the best ideas on how to fix the problems we’re facing. She's as close to a perfect candidate as we are gonna get.

[Gothmog]

54. Biden is the only Democrats who can pick up both Florida and Virginia

Link to tweet

[DCofVA]

71. The current polls are useless

After the nominee is chosen and the attack ads hit the air, the approval rating of the candidate with the most baggage, will most certainly drop. If only there was a way we could know how well a candidate will fare, after all the attacks. If only there was someplace that could give us a good idea of who will hold up the best.
Hey, wait a minute! I know a place. It’s the Democratic Underground. All the candidates have been attacked here. Including a lot of ridiculous, trivial, deceitful right-wing style attacks that we’ll be seeing in the fall. So, let’s see who’s holding up the best. Look who is consistently leading among the Decided here. She is the candidate we want to go with.

[totodeinhere]

96. Too early to know that for sure. And current polls don't take possible Republican shenanigans

into account, and we know they will try everything. For instance, Republicans in the Florida legislature are doing everything they can to get around newly own voter rights for ex-felons in that state.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

145. I could live with President Warren!! Both Elizabeth AND Bernie have FAR LESS baggage than Joe!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[marble falls]

61. "little"? What polls?

[marble falls]

110. All I see on your link is Bernie vs Trump, and Trump leads in some ...

important polls like USA/Today, IBD/TIPP, Rasmusson.

Biden and Warren both lead Bernie. And Biden leads Warren when one looks deeper into the site.

Another way at looking a Biden vs Bernie is he has twice the lead Bernie has.

I assume you meant Biden when you posted 'Brayden'.

You might want to fix that.

[CaptainTruth]

58. The Republican "socialist" attacks on Bernie would be relentless.

I think a lot of folks underestimate the effect that will have on a bunch of voters. There are folks who, after Trump, are willing to vote for a Democrat, but they're not willing to vote for a socialist.

[Eliot Rosewater]

62. I said a LONG time ago, show me who has the best chance of beating the FASCIST KILLER

(not a killer some say? ask the families of the Ukrainian plane including the Canadians, ask the family of Khashoggi) and they get my primary vote.

I assume it will be Joe, I hope it will be Liz, but WHOEVER it is I vote for them because this is not politics, this is life and death.

[The Valley Below]

65. Don't smear Democrats.

[The Valley Below]

74. You capitalize Fascist but not democrat?

Stop smearing Joe Biden. Not cool.

[The Valley Below]

84. Smearing great liberal Democrats like Joe Biden as "Republican lite"

is not a great example of "critical thinking."

[marble falls]

113. We don't attack members, either.

[Sloumeau]

104. Bernie would call himself a Progressive, a Liberal, and a

Democratic Socialist. He would not call himself a moderate. Biden has said he is progressive. Neither of them has referred to Biden as either a Republican or Republican light, and it really is not accurate. Biden's views are close to the middle of the country, which is why people like me call him a moderate. Bernie's views are far from the middle, which is why calling him a moderate is not accurate. Bernie is neither a moderate compared to the electorate as a whole, or even within the Democratic Party. Bernie says he wants a revolution and that he wants big structural change. All of the programs that he wants combined would cost many trillions of dollars. These are not the plans of a moderate.

No candidate, out of the 28 who announced they would run for the Democratic Nomination, is farther to the left than Bernie Sanders. In addition, Bernie's political party is the farthest to the left of the three major groups: Democrats, Independents, and Republicans. Bernie Sanders is not a moderate, and he would tell you that himself.

[marble falls]

116. So Democrats and Republicans are alike.

[yaesu]

69. There is no candidate that I can see that has an electability problem. nt

[mwooldri]

75. I don't think that with any of the present front-runners...

... that there's an electability problem.

It's a Get Out The Vote problem. Especially in the battleground states.

From my recollection there are more registered Democrats than Republicans. So theoretically if the Democrats turn out properly, Democrats win.

So we need to get out the vote. No matter who, vote Blue (unless it's Tory blue)

[dubyadiprecession]

81. Bernie can't win in a national election...

All of the polls prove that.

[KPN]

85. That's what they said about Hillary too. We have to more than just beat tRump. We need a landslide

as insurance against the vote tampering we know the GOP will be carrying out especially in close States.

And BTW, should we really be listening to Jennifer Rubin's advice?

[totodeinhere]

88. Exactly. I am very skeptical of know-it-all political pundits when they were so sure that

Clinton would win. Of course you can make the argument that she really did win but she isn't the one sitting in the White House with her finger on the nuclear trigger.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

139. ANSWER: FUCK NO!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[KPN]

151. ....

[Wawannabe]

86. Yep

He won’t get my primary vote!

[totodeinhere]

87. I think that Bernie is looking past today's polls and he feels that he could run a more

effective campaign against Trump. I'm sure that many would disagree with that but that's what this primary and caucus campaign is about. May the best woman or man win.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

127. Wise words... welcome aboard!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[janterry]

97. No, this isn't accurate at all

It's not what they are defending, but HOW they do it and how they will connect with the American public.

Sure, saying that Bernie is a socialist will be a smear and he will need to overcome it.

Biden, also, would need to answer questions and smears about the Ukraine. Perhaps also about his gaffes.

It will be unrelenting.


It's not the nature of the smear - it's how they respond and how they rise above it (and fight back). AND if they are still trusted afterwards.

[melman]

99. Did you know Jennifer Rubin wanted John Bolton to run for president?

It's true.

Link to tweet

[TexasTowelie]

109. Context?

[melman]

121. She wanted John Bolton to run for president

You're welcome.

[TexasTowelie]

152. I can easily see where that tweet might be sarcasm.

Without the context it isn't possible to make a proper determination as to whether the lone tweet was serious or a joke.

[melman]

154. It's not sarcasm

And I can't imagine how anyone familiar with Jennifer Rubin and who she actually is would think that it was.

[TexasTowelie]

155. Okay then, where is the context for the tweet?

I don't follow Jennifer Rubin since I don't subscribe to the WaPo. Prior to the attacks on her this primary season I knew nothing about her. It appears to me that if the message can't be discredited it is another case of attacking the messenger instead.

[melman]

156. The context is she's a right winger who tweets right wing shit

And she wanted John Bolton to run for president.


If you actually care to know more you can easily find plenty on her feelings about Bolton and others like him. (hint:she's a fan)


It's all out there and only a google away. Good luck and good afternoon!


Done here.

[TexasTowelie]

159. Okay then, I'm not persuaded.

I asked for the context of that tweet twice and you couldn't (or wouldn't) provide it. Rubin may be a Republican, but that doesn't mean that her analysis about Bernie's electability is incorrect. If anything, I'm more inclined to give plausibility to Rubin's column since you didn't discredit it.

I'll be voting for the Democrat in November and at this point I expect that will be Biden.

Done here. Have a nice day!

[George II]

172. The context was she was being sarcastic.

[TexasTowelie]

173. In that case

I can see why melman refused to provide any context. As I said earlier, if they can't discredit the message then discredit the messenger instead.

[George II]

174. Jennifer Rubin is an astute, intelligent woman. Surely she wasn't serious about Bolton running....

....particularly with the comment "cut out the middleman"!

[George II]

128. Wow, 2011. That's like 8-9 years old. Considering she's got 91,000 tweets, that's a lot of digging.

[melman]

131. Nothing that happened before last week matters

[George II]

171. Interesting. She joined twitter in November 2010 and has posted 91,000 tweets since....

You picked out one from about a year after she joined, and more than 8 years old. That's a lot of tweets to wade through to find that one. And it was tongue in cheek.

[melman]

178. From 2016

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2016/12/01/the-job-no-one-is-talking-about/




Is that recent enough? I mean, I don't know when the cutoff date is for when it's acceptable to be praising and promoting John Bolton.


I'd personally go with never. It's never acceptable.


But that's just me. I understand others may be more flexible on these matters.

[melman]

179. Here's a fun column from 2014

Why John Bolton Matters


---

Regardless of whether he decides to run, though, Bolton’s success in fundraising is significant for a number of reasons.

Bolton is showing that a strong national security campaign can get support and money. As Bolton says: “And how could it not be? Do the political operatives really believe that Americans don’t want to be defended from threats to our country and our citizens?”

That increases the number and outspokenness of hawks — as do world events and the collapse of the Obama foreign policy. In the short term, that gives cover to House and Senate candidates to talk about foreign policy issues. In the long run, those thinking about 2016 can be encouraged if they know there is backing for a staunchly pro-defense Republican. In Bolton’s mind, Republicans never really gave up their national security convictions. “The Republican Party has for years been our only national security party. Nothing has really changed that over the last six years,” he says. “But its real inner beliefs are now on display.”



They are on display in part because of his support. In funding pro-defense House and Senate candidates, Bolton is helping to ensure that the Republicans who do win will be closer to his philosophy than, say, Sen. Rand Paul’s views. It is not just that the new House and Senate are likely to have more Republicans; it is that they are likely to have more hawkish Republicans. There will be no Rand Paul acolytes coming to the Senate. (Even Rand Paul isn’t the Rand Paul of old anymore.)

That, in turn, is going to bolster support for increasing defense spending, keeping the National Security Agency architecture in place, blocking the confirmation of unqualified cronies nominated by President Obama and knocking down (via the bully pulpit and oversight hearings) the silly notion that we can beat the Islamic State from the air. And that will force skittish Republicans to become tougher and more realistic in their foreign policy assessments. Put differently, Joni Ernst, Scott Brown, Dan Sullivan and Tom Cotton aren’t going to be encouraged to follow Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) in trimming their sails on an effective war strategy or playing coy on defense spending. Unless he wants to be left behind, Cruz will be obliged to follow them — and adopt a more consistent national security stance.

And if hawkish Republicans are successful at the polls, that may also nudge Democrats at least back to the center on foreign policy. If circling the wagons around a weak White House gets one booted from the Senate, there will be fewer Democrats willing to do it.



In addition, Bolton and others are helping to introduce a new generation of hawkish Republicans. Sens. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and Lindsey Graham (R-N.C.) won’t be around forever, so it is important to begin to seed the Senate with leaders for the next 10 or 20 years. Many of the candidates Bolton is supporting could serve for a very long time and become the sort of foreign policy experts the Senate needs.

Finally, Bolton — if he doesn’t become a candidate himself in 2016 — becomes a helpful addition to a hawkish candidate’s presidential campaign, both as an adviser and a fundraiser. That will benefit the party and that candidate in developing anti-Hillary Clinton arguments. And if he does not run or does not join a campaign, he still becomes a key endorsement for candidates to seek out.

In short, raising a lot of money gives Bolton much more clout than if he had remained simply an expert and talking head on TV. His success is both a reflection of and an accelerator of a more hawkish GOP — and hopefully a smarter one.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2014/10/15/why-john-bolton-matters/

--

But hey, that's ancient history and Jennifer Rubin is totally wonderful now.

[yellowdogintexas]

103. When the convention is over, what are YOU going to do?

By damn I am voting for all Democrats even if one of them is President Obama's dog.
A can of cat food would be preferable to every single R on the ballot in any state.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

148. I'll be voting the DEMOCRATIC nominee into office... President Bernie Sanders!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Kurt V.]

147. i don't give much thought to republicans opinion. Actually zero.

ppl like rubin absolutely refuse to accept their own responsibly for trump.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

166. LESS THAN ZERO!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

167. LESS THAN ZERO!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Stellar]

169. That Republican lady Rubin...the Never Trump Republican!

I'm fed up with Corporate media telling me who is electable. They said Kerry was the electable one in 2004 when he ran against Bush and Hillary was electable when she ran against Obama, and that she was REALLY the electable one when she ran against Trump.

I feel it boils down to whoever WINS, and that's the bottom line!

[colsohlibgal]

175. Younger Voters......

Are not spooked by democratic Socialism. They get that Medicare is socialism, they get that FDR brought us out of the Great Depression by social programs paid for by raising the top marginal tax rate by a ton. It stayed up on over 70, 80 percent till Reagan.

Again, an 80% top marginal tax rate just applies to income over ten million or something like that.

Younger types seem to grasp that, seem to get that economic inequalities are rampant. Older folks not so much it seems.

[LongtimeAZDem]

177. Anyone who thinks Medicare is Socialism doesn't understand the term

[Gothmog]

180. The last time we experimented with a close to Bernie and Liz candidate was in 1972-George McGovern.

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

183. Obama campaign guru: Trump would love to run against Bernie

Link to tweet

Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign manager is warning that Democrats would struggle in a general election against Donald Trump if Bernie Sanders is the nominee.

In an interview with POLITICO, Jim Messina predicted that Trump would exploit Sanders’ stamp of socialism in battleground states needed to defeat Trump, keep control of the House and have a shot at winning the Senate.

“If I were a campaign manager for Donald Trump and I look at the field, I would very much want to run against Bernie Sanders,” Messina said. “I think the contrast is the best. He can say, ‘I’m a business guy, the economy’s good and this guy’s a socialist.’ I think that contrast for Trump is likely one that he’d be excited about in a way that he wouldn’t be as excited about Biden or potentially Mayor Pete or some of the more Midwestern moderate candidates.”....

“From a general election perspective, socialism is not going to be what Democrats are going to want to defend,” Messina added.“If you’re the Democratic nominee for the Montana Senate race, you don’t want to spend the election talking about socialism.”

Messina is the latest Democrat to raise concerns about Sanders at the top of the ticket. Endangered House Democrats are coalescing around Biden because of concerns that Sanders or Elizabeth Warren could threaten their reelection hopes, POLITICO reported Saturday.

[democrattotheend]

184. They all have an electability problem

I like almost everyone running for president on our side, but I don't see any of them being a superstar candidate who makes me feel good about our chances. The bottom line is, we need another Barack Obama and we don't have one this time.

[Gothmog]

185. This is a major Republican chaos operation staring to divide the democrats at every level

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

187. GOP support of sanders show that he is the weakest candidate

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

188. The GOP really wants to run against the weakest possible candidate

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

189. Trump would destroy sanders

Link to tweet

?s=20

[Gothmog]

191. Sanders is a very weak general election candidate

Link to tweet

?s=20

[corbettkroehler]

193. UAW Past President Sees It Differently

[Gothmog]

194. Data Reveals A Moderate Democrat Is The Best Chance To Beat Trump

Link to tweet

The Economist crunched data from various studies and found that a moderate would be the party’s best chance to defeat Donald Trump in November.

Via The Economist:

This research suggests, then, that Mr Biden could perform better than his competitors against Mr Trump. He is more moderate than Mr Sanders, so both more likely to attract swing voters and less likely to motivate Republicans to vote against him. His strength with both black and racially conservative white voters could make a big difference in swing states. Recent polling from the New York Times and Siena College suggests that 6% of the electorate would vote for Mr Biden—but not for Elizabeth Warren—against Mr Trump.

His advantage is evident in polls. According to The Economist’s analysis of publicly released polling data, Mr Biden performs better against Mr Trump than his competitors, nationwide and in swing states. Although polls of the general election conducted this early before a contest are not perfect, they are still helpful.

Mr Biden is not faultless. He is uninspiring on the stump and in debates. His Washington ties may inspire resentment from voters skeptical of elites. His candidacy would also represent a safety-first strategy for the Democrats at a time when many in the party desperately want to push a much more progressive economic, racial and social agenda. Yet for all that he still appears to be the Democrats’ best option in a contest against Mr Trump.

Trump is attacking Biden because he is the Democrat who poses the biggest threat
Joe Biden is the example used in the article, but the same principle applies to all of the moderate Democrat. Trump is extreme. The formula for beating a political extremist isn’t to navigate to the opposite extreme.

Trump has abandoned the political middle, and it would be a foolish mistake for Democrats to believe that they could nominate any of their candidates and beat Trump. If Trump runs against someone on the far left, he will wrap himself in patriotism, and paint his opponent as the extremist.

Election Day turnout will be smaller because people in the middle will stay home instead of choosing between a candidate on the right, and a candidate on the left. A base election helps Trump and the Republican Party.

A moderate can beat Trump with a promise to end the crazy and bring the presidency and the nation back to normal. Beating an incumbent president is difficult, but according to the research, a moderate gives Democrats their best chance to win in 2020.