Hillary Clinton's candid review of Bernie Sanders...

[Skya Rhen]

Link to tweet

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

1. Whoa

Wow

[5X]

2. thats gonna leave a mark.

[ArtTownsend]

408. Yes, it lowered my opinion of Hillary Clinton.

[5X]

425. i didn't say what the result of that mark would be...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287438723

[Sparko55]

458. That's Gonna Leave a Mark - just like in 2016

Yup, how many times do the Clinton's just get it wrong. Looks like plenty.

What did Hilary learn from 2016 - looks like not much.

She had a viable primary opponent in Bernie, and then just to stick a finger in the eye of party activist and show them, chose Tim "Milquetoast" Kaine for a running mate - and although garnered more votes lost in the EC. Yup snagged those 13 electoral votes with mister middle of the road in Virginia, and lost the 46 in the PA, MI, and WI because of "regional appeal" which was nothing. Keep it coastal baby, keep it coastal.

And never showed up in Wisconsin - at all - for the whole general election campaign, despite her really smart people that couldn't see that in 2000 Gore won Wisconsin by 5,700 votes over Bush and Kerry won in 2004 by a bit more at 11,000+ votes, and by 2016 the state was in the hands of Scotty Walker and the Republithugs. Yeah, how'd that one work out. Nothing like an ax to grind when after losing 71 of 72 counties in the primary in 2016 in Wisconsin swear off ever stepping foot in the state again. You gotta give some love to get some love.

So now like a past due expiry date pro athlete that just can't fathom being out of the spotlight, adulation, and living in the warm glow of the glory days, continues to opine on petty things, and again stick a finger in the eye of the progressive wing of the party.

Maybe the Democratic Party needs to evaluate why for the past 40 or 50 years they went down roads prepped by the GOP and all the "centrist" folks that were merely self serving, or DINO's out of servitude to their corporate donors. When you stumble from one bad policy decision to another - think Glass-Steagall Act, Telecomm Act of 1996, and others - so you can present as "centrist" or GOP light - you do a disservice to the country and lose support over time. And it happened in 2015 with TPP and the array of Dems who supported it - like Mr. Kaine - despite the rank and file that kept telling them NO. It's always the same old story - get their votes - and then tell them you know what's better for them than they do.

And now it continues. Keep going and November will disappoint once again, and it didn't have to be. It will hurt the whole party.

[calimary]

464. Welcome to DU, Sparko55!

It gets pretty wild 'n' wooly around here sometimes!

[NurseJackie]

3. Preach!

[samnsara]

453. amen!!!!

[SidDithers]

4. Sounds about right...

Sid

[highplainsdem]

5. K&R

[getagrip_already]

6. paging ted cruz......

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. That's going to blow up her Twitter feed.

The bros aren’t gonna like that and they will let her know.

[NCProgressive]

13. The bros need to give up their stupid obsession

and get back to parties, sex and weed.

[Skya Rhen]

17. They really love their weed!

[samnsara]

455. ...and putting a quarter in the space between the wall and the plugged in phone charger...

[MrsCoffee]

85. Won't be long before they are back to "lock her up".

So many similarities to another campaign.

[calimary]

140. Fuck 'em.

Or maybe better yet, NEVER fuck’ em. (Eeeeuuuuw! Who the heck would even want to?)

[Anaxamander]

422. Very mature

[calimary]

463. Why, thank you!

[ehrnst]

162. What's new? If she comments on the weather, they call her a "corporatist hag"

who needs to shut up and go back to the woods.

[brutus smith]

413. You compare her undemocratic comments to weather?

[betsuni]

415. What "undemocratic comments"?

[ehrnst]

417. "undemocratic?" Lol.

If you're talking about the comments in the documentary - that she made last year - she certainly wasn't the first to comment on this aspect of Sanders, even then.

https://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/anger-management-sanders-fights-for-employees-except-his-own/Content?oid=2834657

Barney Frank talked about it years ago as well about their time in Congress.

Mickey Hirten, editor of the Burlington Free Press when Bernie was mayor has also talked about the experiences of those who worked with Bernie.


On the other hand this could be described as unDemocratic...

[samnsara]

454. ..she can handle them...snotty noses and all!

[dubyadiprecession]

8. Sad, but true.

Bernie isn’t warm or cuddly.

[tishaLA]

9. The "career politician" dig is maybe the best part of that

he's made getting nothing done his vocation.

[JaneQPublic]

22. But just look at all the bills he got passed!

A total of SEVEN, if you count ones enacted via incorporation with other bills:

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/browse?sponsor=400357#enacted_ex=on

For comparison's sake, I looked at Klobuchar's record and found she's got 34 bills passed in much less time:

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/browse?sponsor=412242#enacted_ex=on

Based on Bernie's track record for (not) getting bills made into laws, even though he wrote "the damn bill" on Medicare for All," it appears he isn't the best person for ensuring it or any other bill is made the Law of the Land... short of enacting names for VT post offices.

[CaptYossarian]

48. It's easier to get bills passed when you're a centrist. He's too extreme to draw support from the

Repubs. They'll never go for free college, cheaper meds or health care for all. The GOP is the pro-death party.

[JaneQPublic]

55. Lawrence O'Donnell's take on it...

Last edited Tue Jan 21, 2020, 03:04 PM - Edit history (1)

...is that all the quibbling in the debates over the various health care plans is a waste of time, because regardless of which candidate gets elected, any health care bill they can get passed will be the same, once it makes its way through the lawmaking sausage grinder.

As a former chief of staff of Senate committees, LO'D knows of which he speaks.

[CaptYossarian]

62. We got quite an education when the damn insurance industry watered down the ACA.

They made it weak and very challengeable for the pro-death party.

[ehrnst]

93. In what way did the insurance industry "water down" the ACA?

I hadn't heard about that.

Can you share your source?

[CaptYossarian]

109. It was all over MSNBC at the time. They kept bringing on a former executive from Aetna

on a daily basis who gave step by step updates as to what these dirt bags were doing to water it down.

This was after the industry finished spending $1 Billion per day to keep it from passing. When they realized the passing was inevitable, they appeared to collapse, but were really working with the GOP members on the committee to make sure we didn't get what they have in Europe.

It became a nice Band-Aid at the time, but we deserve better.

[Demsrule86]

249. That is not true. The ACA is based on Romneycare...which worked pretty well in Massachussetts, and

we were able to get it through Congress. I find your post disrespectful to all those on our side who gave up their seats in Congress to send help to the American people who desperately needed healthcare. Nancy Pelosi gave up her majority as well. She is a remarkable woman.

It is the only healthcare program that ever passed Congress and became law. It has changed the way Americans view healthcare...now they consider it a right. That is a big fucking deal as a great man once said. M4A will never make it through Congress and those who continue to promote it when it has no chance of passing even the House are only helping the GOP to destroy the ACA...our only healthcare now and for the foreseeable future. We can build on the ACA -provide a public option- and end up with some form of universal healthcare.

If we continue to push MFA, we will in the end lose healthcare as it will destroy the ACA and since we have no way to implement MFA, we will end up with no healthcare.

[CaptYossarian]

279. I'm not blaming Democrats for anything. The insurance industry and the

soulless, heartless GOP got my full blame.

And as fpr Romneycare, it was a program for a solid (usually) blue state who at the time had a Republican governor. He had to compromise in order to stay in office.

The Democrats had to allow the Repubs a seat at the table when negotiating to get the ACA passed. That's when it got watered down. I'm sure they did so thinking it would be improved upon in a short time. They never saw the cluster**** of Boehner/Ryan trying to appeal the whole thing 50-60 times.

[tiredtoo]

368. If my memory serves me correctly

This bill was originally sponsored by republicans back when Hillary was first lady and pushing for government healthcare . The bill was a product of the heritage foundation.

[ehrnst]

378. No, your memory does not serve you correctly.

It wasn't yet another thing that one can blame HRC for, try as one might.

Found easily on the Google.

Did Heritage originate the idea? Our research suggests that while Heritage has advocated for health insurance exchanges for many years, others did, too. Scholars credit Alain C. Enthoven -- an emeritus professor at the Stanford University Graduate School of Business who worked in the Defense Department during the Kennedy and Johnson administrations -- with popularizing the idea for an exchange as many as three decades ago.
...........................................
One -- Tevi Troy, a visiting senior fellow at the Hudson Institute -- thought Heritage had a legitimate gripe. "In the policy world, there is often a vast gulf between theoretical ideas and policies as implemented, and this case is no exception," Troy said. "While Heritage had been a leading advocate for health insurance exchanges, the law as written creates something so different from what Heritage sought that I understand why they want to remove their name from the list of proponents.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/apr/01/barack-obama/obama-says-heritage-foundation-source-health-excha/


You're welcome.

[tiredtoo]

393. Still smarting huh.

Your search did not go deep enough.
https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/nov/15/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/

[ehrnst]

420. You seem to have skipped over conclusion of the link you shared..."half-true"

However, to call it the Republican plan, as though a majority of Republicans endorsed it, goes too far. The House Republicans took a different path, and there was opposition from more hard-line members of the Republican coalition. It is telling that the Chafee bill never became a full blown bill and never came up for a vote.

We rate the statement Half True.

You're welcome.

[ehrnst]

270. "Former executive."

Do you remember the name?

And which actual industry execs were "watering it down?"

Which ones were working with the "GOP committee members," and on which committee?

Also, curious where you get the $1 Billion per day figure. I hadn't heard that.

But then again I've been told that I'm "naive" to think that the Kaiser Family Foundation is an independent health care policy think tank rather than a tool of Kaiser Permanente to feed industry propaganda to the public....

[CaptYossarian]

285. Luckily, the man's name came up in another DU story about 2 hours ago.

His name is Wendell Potter.

Both Potter and former NY Rep Anthony Weiner were frequent guests on MSNBC when all of this was happening. MSNBC was the only station that I had on back then during all my waking hours, so that part was easy.

Either they--or an MSNBC host--told of the $1 Billion figure. I'm guessing O'Donnell or the late Ed Schultz.

As far as I know, no execs were named that were working behind the scenes, but this feels like "forever ago".

[lapucelle]

111. ...

[AtheistCrusader]

114. The insurance industry practically wrote the ACA.

Which media source can I safely point you to on this?

Look for Liz Fowler. Worked for WellPoint, was hired by Obama to help write the bill, and now is back at a pharma giant.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/05/obamacare-fowler-lobbyist-industry1

The ACA was a landmark achievement compared to what we had at the time (nothing). It was difficult to pass, it didn't do as much as we all hoped, but it did do some good work.

But it was also a trojan horse.

[ehrnst]

170. No, the link doesn't really back up what you say.

Even considering that the Intercept isn't known for accurate reporting on Democrats.

Where in the article does it say that Fowler was "hired by Obama?" The article states that she was a health policy staffer for Max Baucus.



The ACA was written by committee, and based loosely on Masscare, and with the help of the Kaiser Family Foundation policy analysis and polling data.

No, it was not "practically written by the insurance industry." There were people on it, like Liz Fowler, who had experience and understanding in the insurance industry, which was necessary because it would regulate many industry practices....

But I'll bite, what was allegedly hiding inside this "Trojan Horse?"

[AtheistCrusader]

173. Then you literally did not read it.

[AtheistCrusader]

175. Like seriously, to come to that conclusion, you could not possibly have read the first paragraph.

You would have had to have stopped at the first sentence. If that's all the effort you can muster, there's no point discussing this.

Halfway down, there's a link to another article that details how Pharmaceutical Researchers and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA) lobby benefited financially from the bill.

Edit: The huffpo sub-link is now dead, but if you google the article title as embedded in the link, there's TONS of variations on it, detailing how the lobby members reaped enormous profits from the ACA.

[ehrnst]

176. I read the article... Literally nowhere does it state that Liz Fowler was hired by Obama....

Last edited Tue Jan 21, 2020, 01:52 PM - Edit history (1)

to write the ACA.

It literally says she was a staffer for Max Baucus during the writing...

Did you even read my response?

Go back and read again...

[AtheistCrusader]

183. You responded to more than just that specific claim, and the article addresses those.

Here are others for the 'who hired whom' issue.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/white-house-defends-hirin_n_649237

Baucus hired her as the architect of the bill per Baucus's own comments in the previous article, and the Obama administration then hired her to oversee implementation of it.

If you think she was 'just a staffer', then I can't help. There's TONS of articles still live on the web, and it was a HUGE issue for Progressives that wanted real health care reform, especially since it required hiring a former industry insider.

Edit; would it sit better if I revised that to 'she was hired by Obama's senate committee to write the bill'?

"But with Obama’s blessing, the Senate, through its Finance Committee, took a different tack, and became the fulcrum for a potential grand bargain on health reform."

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/the-real-story-of-obamacares-birth/397742/
The Obama Administration was tightly coupled to the entire process.

That's not a bad thing, but informs the language I chose in that paragraph.

[ehrnst]

192. So now you're changing your statement.

Just so you're clear now: Fowler was on Baucus's staff when the ACA was being written, and not "an Obama hire to write the bill."

So are you going to answer my question on what was supposedly hiding in this "Trojan Horse?"

And no, the industry consulting on the bill that would regulate them, and change the way that they administered health insurance is not the same as "the industry practically writing the bill."

Fowler was an expert on the industry, having been in the industry, however was no longer in the industry during the writing and the implementation.

If your "tons of articles live on the web" are from sources like The Intercept, then it's no wonder you are not informed on the ACA or the process of its creation.

Still waiting on what was supposedly hiding inside "The Trojan Horse."

[AtheistCrusader]

211. How is it

the insurance industry was insulated against all but the one unlikeliest risk (lower than expected costs)?
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/11/how-the-authors-of-obamacare-protected-insurance-companies/440853/

Why was this the apparent focus?

[ehrnst]

219. Article does not show "the insurance industry practically wrote the bill."

It refers to "the authors of the health care law." Can you point out the text that supports your claim that they were "primarily the insurance industry?" Don't believe everything you think.

As I said before, listing what the results were for the insurance industry does not in any way provide evidence for your claim.

The goal is to ensure that as the health-insurance industry transitions into the new marketplaces, individual companies aren't forced out of the market and that the system generally won't have to raise premiums next year to offset unexpected costs this year. That could be the beginning of the dreaded insurance "death spiral," in which sick customers beget premium increases, which makes coverage less attractive to healthier people. The authors of the health care law didn't want that, and they recognized that the people who sign up for Obamacare first will probably be the sick people who need it most.

Still waiting for what was hiding in the alleged "Trojan Horse" you talked about...

Care to retract?

[AtheistCrusader]

248. Liz Folwer was the VP for Public Policy and External Affairs at WellPoint prior to working for Baucu

s. (2006-2008)

Fowler's predecessor on Baucus's staff was Michelle Easton, also worked for Wellpoint as a principal at Tarplin, Downs, & Young.

On Liz's influence on the bill, Baucus himself:

Mr. BAUCUS. Mr. President, there are a flood of emotions going through all of us today as we pass this reconciliation bill which improves upon the bill the President signed 2 days ago. I would like to focus only on one part–a very important part but only one part–and that is to thank the people who have worked so hard, especially in this body, to help accomplish this result.
[…]
We all want to thank so many people. Once we start mentioning a couple or three names, we run the danger of offending people whose names are not mentioned. We all know that. There will be an appropriate time for us to make all the thanks, and I will make mine so sincerely because I am so grateful for all the hard work my staff has put into this.
I wish to single out one person, and that one person is sitting next to me. Her name is Liz Fowler. Liz Fowler is my chief health counsel. Liz Fowler has put my health care team together. Liz Fowler worked for me many years ago, left for the private sector, and then came back when she realized she could be there at the creation of health care reform because she wanted that to be, in a certain sense, her profession lifetime goal. She put together the White Paper last November–2008–the 87-page document which became the basis, the foundation, the blueprint from which almost all health care measures in all bills on both sides of the aisle came. She is an amazing person. She is a lawyer; she is a Ph.D. She is just so decent. She is always smiling, she is always working, always available to help any Senator, any staff. I thank Liz from the bottom of my heart. In many ways, she typifies, she represents all of the people who have worked so hard to make this bill such a great accomplishment.
I will have printed in the Record the names of all my professional staff. There are more than I realized, so I can’t name them all. I ask unanimous consent to have that list printed in the Record and just regret that I cannot thank everybody personally.

In government legislation formation terms, I recognize that as being the author of the bill. I am prepared to cede that we agree to disagree, if you disagree on that point.

One of the 'trojan' items within the bill was called out by Consumer Watchdog.

Consumer Watchdog first called attention to the similarities, particularly with respect to a part of the plan that would help insurance companies avoid state regulation:
The plan would result in a “race to the bottom” in health care regulation by allowing insurance companies that participate in “health care compacts” to choose the weakest state law to govern all their policies, regardless of which state the policies are sold in. Currently, insurance companies must abide by the state laws of any state where they sell insurance. The Baucus plan resembles an industry proposal carried by Mike Enzi (R-WY) in 2006 discussed below.

[ehrnst]

266. that would be before, and not during when she was working on the bill.

She left the private sector prior to working on the bill.

In government legislation formation terms, I recognize that as being the author of the bill.

Actually there are cases where private industry takes on a majority if not all the authoring of a bill. You have not made that case here. You have a particular pet notion about what happened, that you wanted this to be true, and it's become for you, equal to fact.

Certainly if one wants to atuomatically attribute nefarious motives on the part of anyone who works or has worked in the health insurance industry, as an executive or otherwise, and believes that they must always be considered a mole in the service of said industry, no amount of logic or evidence will move one to think anything else.

It appears to be a case of "To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

And possibly most damning of all, she got a Ph.D. from the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health!!!!! That is an awful lot of effort to acheive one's primary purpose of filling her pockets via protecting insurance industry CEOs by way of credentials to manipulate one's way into Max Baucus' office... That's some deep cover...

Also, she was the National Economic Adviser to Obama. Deputy Director for Policy of the Center for Consumer Information and Insurance Oversight (OCIIO). How do you think she managed to convince Obama that she wasn't really interested in public service, but in doing everything possible to make money for insurance companies?

And she was such the Mata Hari of the insurance industry that she lived forever after in a corner Lobby office surrounded by the luxury purchased by her service in destroying the inevitable passing of MFA.... Oh wait.

I know someone who was actually invited by Obama from private industry to work in his administration. He respected her expertise, and she took a pay cut, and no job security past 2012 because she indeed wanted to work on public service and use her expertise for the good of the public, and this was an administration that she would be proud to be part of. Call me naive...but I believed her.



But yes, if one googles her name, it's clear she is the source and lightingrod of the fringe press as most heinous, greed-driven She-devil to ever land in DC since.. well... First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton was for the fringe press.

And I learned all that about her background since your post...

[AtheistCrusader]

343. It doesn't have to be nefarious to be a problem.

"doing everything possible to make money for insurance companies?" Also, the letter of the bill doesn't have to be explicitly for this purpose to be problematic. A simple tweak can move billions in profit from taxpayers to industry. A simple tweak can reduce costs to industry by billions.

In my (subjective) view, the end result was as sweet for, and risk averse to insurance companies as possible. Not so, for the taxpayer and insured. The only financial outcome that would have been negative for the insurance companies (lots of healthy people signing up, more than projected, requiring the Ins. Companies to reimburse the government for initial outlays) was the utter least likely/impossible outcome. All other outcomes left the ball in the taxpayer/insured's courts. Allowing the insurance companies to 'shop around' for state regulations lets them litigate and arbitrate coverage under the most favorable state regulations in the union saving billions.

These choices may not be 'nefarious', but I still view them as problematic conflicts of interest, and a LOT of progressives were less than pleased by it.

AS for Liz's CV "Vice President for Global Health Policy at Johnson & Johnson"
https://www.npr.org/2019/11/15/779439374/oklahoma-judge-shaves-107-million-off-opioid-decision-against-johnson-johnson
I would not trust public policy suggested by, written by, or overseen by any VP/SVP/C-Level exec from a company like that. Maybe that's unhelpful, but hey, I don't put asbestos in baby talc powder either so


At the end of the day, our disagreement may not matter though, because the ACA is in shambles and that happened in the courts, and in direct malfeasance by the Republican Party.

At this point, I will accept nothing less than single-payer, or a hybrid health care system like Germany. That's the bar I'm aiming for, and I'll oppose anything else as at best, half-measure, or worse.

[ehrnst]

344. ....

At this point, I will accept nothing less than single-payer, or a hybrid health care system like Germany. That's the bar I'm aiming for, and I'll oppose anything else as at best, half-measure, or worse.

"To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

It appears you will see malice everywhere that MFA is not.

BTW - The ACA is much closer to what Germany has than MFA.


But tell me, if the 2010 SCOTUS could strike down any enforcement of states following the ACA mandate for Medicaid expansion, what do you think a 2021 SCOTUS, with Kavanaugh and Gorsuch will rule on states having to participate in an expansion of Medicare?

[AtheistCrusader]

346. I don't usually refer to it as MFA.

At least, what I prefer isn't normally called that. I hopped off the Bernie bandwagon a while ago, if that's what you are suggesting. Getting Medicare to function as single payer for all, would be an interesting feat.

I would be satisfied with a pretty much carbon-copy of Germany's system. The outcomes are good, and costs are acceptable to me.

[ehrnst]

348. Well, if we had the homogenous population Germany has, the % of urban population they have,

and a time machine to go back in time to start developing it when they started, no problem!

I mean, Boston can envy the grid layout of the streets of Chicago, and say, "They did it, why can't we?" and we'd understand why that wouldn't be a realistic question.

[AtheistCrusader]

351. It's ALWAYS a realistic question

[ehrnst]

352. No, it's not.

Facts and reality and stuff.

But you seriously think that Boston asking the question, "Chicago has this organized, flat grid street layout. Why can't we?" is a realistic question?

[AtheistCrusader]

365. There are options that would make it so.

Sure, you can't re-form that much private property into a different shape, but you can address the underlying need by closing the gap between what you have, and what you desire. In Boston's case, elevation of public transit might work, or subterranean routes may work. Population density a problem? Zoning and permitting can close that gap over time.

We did it here in Seattle, putting a tunnel behind a leaking seawall, just to make the downtown waterfront look prettier.
Things CAN always be done. It might not be 100% of what is needed, but any movement toward the goal should yield benefits.

Edit: IN a way, the ACA represents precisely that, except instead of building on that, we've been losing ground as it's torn down around us.

[ehrnst]

374. No, it's not realistic.

But continue doing backflips to avoid admitting it.

[AtheistCrusader]

428. Street layout serves a purpose.

Forgive me for assuming you were suggesting an issue in good faith that is actually a problem that needs solving.

Chicago has a variety of means of getting people from one place to another that can be adapted to any street layout. If you can't move the streets, you can still move people/vehicles in other cities, using Chicago as an example.

But now I see you were just being facetious the whole time.

[ehrnst]

429. Forgive me for assuming that you were interested in a factual, respectful discourse

and not simply rejecting any logical, factual argument that doesn't confirm your bias, even to stretching to the point of arguing that it would be realistic for Boston to consider razing all their hills and buildings to create a new city based on the Chicago planned grid model.

But now I see you were just being facetious the whole time.

[AtheistCrusader]

432. Factual respectful discourse would preclude making up what I said.

I said: "Sure, you can't re-form that much private property into a different shape, but you can address the underlying need by closing the gap between what you have, and what you desire."

And then you ascribe to me "arguing that it would be realistic for Boston to consider razing all their hills and buildings to create a new city based on the Chicago planned grid model."

I literally did not do that.

Factual respectful discourse doesn't require making up shit the person you are talking to, didn't say.

[ehrnst]

433. You literally did that.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.



Again, forgive me for assuming that you were interested in a factual, respectful discourse. You are clearly not.

[AtheistCrusader]

435. Feel free to quote it.

Tunneling and elevated roadways/trains is not 'razing the city'.

[ehrnst]

443. .....

Again, forgive me for assuming that you were interested in a factual, respectful discourse. You are clearly not.

But do go on.

[AtheistCrusader]

445. It's interesting that one of us that made up shit about the other's position also howled 'strawman'.

[ehrnst]

447. "Have a nice day."

Just like someone who says, "I'm just going to leave this here.."

Then comes back to protest every single response.

[AtheistCrusader]

449. Oh, I apologize. You may have the last word.

Sorry, I didn't know it was 'getting under your skin'.

[ehrnst]

450. "Have a nice day."

How are people supposed to miss you if you don't go away?

[ehrnst]

185. Like seriously, listing what insurers or pharma benefitted or did not benefit from is not

presenting any evidence that the "the insurance industry practically wrote it."

Were experts on the insurance marketplace, both in and not in the industry consulted? Yes.

When one doesn't consult those who will be impacted by a bill, then the law will liable to be weaker in a legal challenge to it.

See also: "The Partial Birth Abortion Ban" was struck down in part because it was vague and did not use terminology that the medical community used, thus risking criminalizing physicians for something that was not put down in language they used.

When one is crafting legislation regulating auto emissions and safety standards, one consults automakers along with environmental and engineering experts, because automakers will be the ones directly affected. It must be clear to them, and their input about what is and is not a reasonable timeline for implementation is necessary. That doesn't = them "practically authoring" the legislation.

Is that clearer to you?

Pro-Tip - the Intercept isn't a good source for anything concerning Democrats.

[AtheistCrusader]

188. So, which source would you like me to use?

I'll play this game.

[ehrnst]

199. Major, mainstream journalistic sources, and health care think tanks involved in the process

Kaiser Health News is a very good source.

The Commonwealth Fund, The Urban Institute and Kaiser Family Foundation are all very good apolitical, non-industry sources.

NPR, NYT and the NYT magazine, LA Times, The Atlantic, WAPO, Op-Eds and articles by Drew Altman, Uwe Rheinhart and E.J. Dionne are all reliable factual resources without a dog in the fight.

Blogs not associated with a reputable editorial source or apolitical health policy analyst or think tank, no.

'Zines with a political agenda to discredit Democrats, no.

So are you going to answer what is "hidden" inside this "Trojan Horse," or are you going to continue to evade it?

[AncientGeezer]

318. Any that you stick to.....not switching back and forth when showed wrong

[AtheistCrusader]

338. Well fortunately that's not what happened.

So thanks for playing.

Like really, at this point, this is your contribution to the thread?

[ehrnst]

349. Getting under your skin?

[AtheistCrusader]

364. It's a pet peeve.

I literally asked you what source you'd accept after objecting to one I used. I didn't challenge your objection, and the atlantic article I pulled up next, was not a reversal or hopping from one subject to another.

We may be disagreeing, but I am engaging honestly with you, and to have someone hop in the thread with a random objection that's already answered if the thread was just READ, it's annoying.

I'm sure you'd be annoyed too.

[ehrnst]

375. So, yes. Getting under your skin because I schooled you

and I'm not backing down or wearing down due to your protests.

I know more about the topic than you do, clearly, and I'm not apologizing for it.

I've pointed out that you have not provided evidence to back up your claim that "the insurance industry practically wrote the ACA" and that no, Boston thinking that they could have the same street layout as Chicago is not a 'realistic idea,' no matter how desperate you are to prove me wrong about something.

Get some sleep.

[AtheistCrusader]

430. Unless you are also 'ancientgeezer' no.

You seem confused on who I was responding to there. The site software makes it quite clear.

I didn't know we were trying to 'school' each other. I sourced who wrote the ACA (Per Baucus), and it was a health care industry corporate Vice President, before and after her stint with Baucus writing it and the Obama Administration implementing it. I also sourced concessions that were made to the insurance industry in the bill.

You also seem to have assumed I was ascribing nefarious intent to her, or by extension, the Obama Administration, which is not something I ever suggested. Slight biases can have incredible effects in legislation, and it doesn't take overt collusion for the insurance industry to achieve precisely what it wants, through legislation crafted by a friendly party.


Lastly, on the Chicago thing, I didn't say they could achieve the same street layout, but they can satisfy the same human needs with tools Chicago has applied, because again, I thought you were engaging honestly here. My bad.

[ehrnst]

431. See my reply to you here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=438946

[AtheistCrusader]

434. Ok. You're still wrong.

I never suggested going ahead and razing boston's hills and land to make it more Chicago-like.

I talked about methods cities like Chicago itself uses today, to solve 'Person A needs to get to Location B in a timely manner' without tearing down the city and starting over.

But you know, if you're just going to make shit up...

[ehrnst]

437. Straw man....

Nice try. I guess you thought since it was a long thread, I would forget, or go down a rabbit hole defending a straw man you attack.

If you had any familiarity with me, you would know that's not going to happen. Ask Uncle Joe...



But you know, if you're just going to make shit up...knock yourself out. Go play solitare.

[AtheistCrusader]

438. These are your words.

"even to stretching to the point of arguing that it would be realistic for Boston to consider razing all their hills and buildings to create a new city based on the Chicago planned grid model."

I never suggested considering that. I talked about elevated transit and tunnels to solve a need, rather than ...whatever you just made up there.

I get the strong impression you don't know what a strawman is.

[ehrnst]

439. Again...

I don't go down rabbit holes to defend straw men other people set up to attack.

"But you know, if you're just going to make shit up..."

[AtheistCrusader]

442. Have a nice day.

At least this thread should prove interesting to passers-by.

[ehrnst]

444. You, too!

Whatever makes you feel better.

Reminds me of a saying about playing chess with a pigeon...

[AtheistCrusader]

446. A useful analogy, except the post where one participant shit on the board wasn't mine.

[ehrnst]

448. Tries to end the discussion with "Have a nice day,"

Then keeps on posting, and posting and posting.... in a futile hope that the other will SUBMIT!!!!!!!



Even a pigeon flies away when they see the game is done.

[The Mouth]

247. It's the very nature of democratic institutions

People seem to *LOVE* "Democracy", except when it, you know, involves compromise with the 30 or 40 percent of the population who don't agree with them. And our system is very carefull designed to prevent a mere slight majority of 55 or 60 percent from dominating and ignoring a sizable majority.

OTOH everyone LOVES authoritarianism, as long as the authoritarians in power agree with what they want done.

Democracy is messy; slow, a meat grinder. The lowest common denominator, the most watered down option will usually be the one that ends up being implemented.

[ehrnst]

272. Is that why you're supporting Yang?

[The Mouth]

307. Nope

I'm supporting Yang because I think he's making some important points. It's Joe's to lose, I like Liz, too.

[grantcart]

117. Did you include all of the Post Offices in Vermont that he got named?

[JaneQPublic]

209. Ha! Yep.

Without them, the total would be only 3 or 4.

[NurseJackie]

218. Excellent comparison. Thank you! That puts things into a VERY CLEAR perspective.

[apnu]

230. This is the evidence of independent vs party member.

He can caucus with whomever he wants, but he's not on committees, he's not often in the rooms working on legislation. And if some some lobbyist dared to hand him a bill, and he liked it enough, its hard for him as an independent to shop it around the Capitol w/out the built in infrastructure and trust that a party member automatically gets.

This is Bernie's great flaw, IMO. One his supporters work really hard to ignore.

[redstateblues]

36. Establishment career politician

[Doremus]

253. Seriously?

That anyone who is or has been a longtime part of establishment Washington politics would hurl this insult at someone else is pretty funny.

By the way, who is the "establishment career politician"? Bernie is an Independent.

[redstateblues]

341. How long has Bernie been in Congress? 30+ years? Pretty established if you ask me

[Scurrilous]

155. Yep. Getting nothing done

Too bad his followers don't look at his record and ask themselves how this guy who never got anything done is going pull off what he's promising.


How do you go from a handful of easy feel good no one will object to passing bills in 13 years to the to-do list from hell. With a Senate that could likely be in GOP hands and the guy you beat on the sidelines tweeting to the rabble. And to pay for it you'll have to raise taxes. But the GOP hasn't voted for an income tax increase in 30 years. You'll also need to cut defense spending drastically even though it has gone up 5 years in a row and Congress is hooked on pork. With no friends in a Congress made up of parties you have routinely insulted for years.

Berni's to-do list -

Institute a moratorium on deportations until a thorough audit of past practices and policies is complete.

Reinstate and expand DACA and develop a humane policy for those seeking asylum.

Completely reshape and reform our immigration enforcement system, including breaking up ICE and CBP and redistributing their functions to their proper authorities.

Dismantle cruel and inhumane deportation programs and detention centers and reunite families who have been separated.

Live up to our ideals as a nation and welcome refugees and those seeking asylum, including those displaced by climate change.

Create a Medicare for All, single-payer, national health insurance program to provide everyone in America with comprehensive health care coverage, free at the point of service.

No networks, no premiums, no deductibles, no copays, no surprise bills.

Medicare coverage will be expanded and improved to include: include dental, hearing, vision, and home- and community-based long-term care, in-patient and out-patient services, mental health and substance abuse treatment, reproductive and maternity care, prescription drugs, and more.

Stop the pharmaceutical industry from ripping off the American people by making sure that no one in America pays over $200 a year for the medicine they need by capping what Americans pay for prescription drugs under Medicare for All.

Transform our energy system to 100 percent renewable energy and create 20 million jobs needed to solve the climate crisis.

Ensure a just transition for communities and workers, including fossil fuel workers.

Ensure justice for frontline communities, especially under-resourced groups, communities of color, Native Americans, people with disabilities, children and the elderly.

Save American families money with investments in weatherization, public transportation, modern infrastructure and high-speed broadband.

Commit to reducing emissions throughout the world, including providing $200 billion to the Green Climate Fund, rejoining the Paris Agreement, and reasserting the United States’ leadership in the global fight against climate change.
I
nvest in conservation and public lands to heal our soils, forests, and prairie lands.

End the greed of the fossil fuel industry and hold them accountable.

Guarantee tuition and debt-free public colleges, universities, HBCUs, Minority Serving Institutions and trade-schools to all.

Cancel all student loan debt for the some 45 million Americans who owe about $1.6 trillion and place a cap on student loan interest rates going forward at 1.88 percent.

Invest $1.3 billion every year in private, non-profit historically black colleges and universities and minority-serving institutions

End equity gaps in higher education attainment. And ensure students are able to cover non-tuition costs of attending school by: expanding Pell Grants to cover non-tuition and fee costs, tripling funding for the Work-Study Program, and more.

Double union membership within Bernie’s first term.

Establish federal protections against the firing of workers for any reason other than “just cause.”

Provide unions the ability to organize through a majority sign up process and enact “first contract” provisions to ensure companies cannot prevent a union from forming by denying a first contract.

Deny federal contracts to companies that pay poverty wages, outsource jobs overseas, engage in union busting, deny good benefits, and pay CEOs outrageous compensation packages

Expand Social Security benefits for all recipients and protect pensions.

Guarantee home and community based long-term care services.

Protect our most vulnerable seniors by quadrupling funding for the Older Americans Act and expanding other programs seniors rely on.

Expand and train the direct care workforce we need.

Eliminate “Right to Work for Less” laws and guarantees the right to unionize for workers historically excluded from labor protections, like farm workers and domestic workers.

[BootinUp]

292. Bingo bango thank u ma'am. Nt

[NCProgressive]

10. Nice !!!

I wish she had done this before the damage set in.

[highplainsdem]

11. Read the full interview at the Hollywood Reporter. The paragraph after the one quoted in that tweet

is about Sanders' online supporters, and it's similar to other critiques of them we've seen in recent days, including from Paul Krugman.

[calimary]

153. Sanders' online supporters - the "Russian underground", you mean.

I always wonder how many of those online “supporters “ were actually Russian bots and hackers looking to stir shit up.

[ehrnst]

206. Certainly not all of those who made those bot posts go viral were bots.

So there's that.

[brer cat]

12. K&R

[ismnotwasm]

14. Holy shit

It’s going down now. She deliberately made herself a target. Biden is off the list

[PatSeg]

56. You're probably right

I wonder if she consciously is taking one for the team.

[Hav]

362. That is exactly what she did with Gabbard:

Taking one for the team despite the backlash that will come. That's the kind of person she has always been.
Someone had to do it in regards to Gabbard. Hillary had the clout and guts to do it and the intellect to present the issue in a manner that was easy for all to understand. And now, the remains of Gabbard's campaign can be found in some garbage dump.

[PatSeg]

363. And being Hillary is known to be

a very cautious and disciplined person, her criticisms carry a lot more weight than most.

[Anaxamander]

423. Yes, she's very disciplined

[highplainsdem]

92. No, they're still targeting Biden, judging by Twitter. But they'll go after HRC, too.

[ehrnst]

353. She's self-secure enough to shrug it off and laugh. Unlike some other POTUS candidates.

[Scurrilous]

15. It is all baloney.

[stonecutter357]

16. K&R

[Thekaspervote]

18. Thank you HRC...still right there with ya!!

[Pisces]

19. This isn't helping.

[Bev54]

38. It actually may help

If she makes herself a target, his Stein buddies will go after her instead of Biden and Warren. I have always felt this way about Bernie and I think half of his support on this forum is Russian bots who are stirring the shit. He is being openly supported by Russia, do you really need another one? Ask yourselves that question. This is not the time to elect another angry old white man being supported by Russia and nasty people who go after everyone who does not support him. Take this as a warning, she also warned the country about Trump and she was dead on. LISTEN!

[CaptYossarian]

59. It wasn't about Bernie being supported by Russia. It was about

the "divide and conquer" strategy often used by conservatives who are fully aware their candidate won't win any popular vote.

I joined a so-called pro-Bernie group on FB in 2016 and they barely mentioned him. It was at least 90% b*tching about Hillary. She was a Goldman Girl--she will get us into war--she would allow young women to be drafted into combat positions--she was "on the take" and could be bought: you name it.

Every time I said I would vote for Bernie in the primary, but would choose Hillary in the general if she were the nominee, you'd think I just killed their family. They were brutal. Around September, I started sensing the Russian connection and ignored their feed. The day after Trump got his second-place victory, I quit FB. That was before the Zuckerberg revelations came out.

[BannonsLiver]

87. Sure it is!

It helped me get my morning off to a glorious start!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

258. Not helping is right... Hillary's remarks only help create further rifts in the Democratic Party.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Dem4Life1102]

20. I hate to say this

but she should wait until the election is over to speak out.

[tishaLA]

23. Yes, it's never quite the right time for Sec Clinton to speak

always either too early or too late and, by the way, why hasn't she taken up knitting?

[karynnj]

68. I agree that she should speak out on issues - there are many where she has enormous creds

Last edited Tue Jan 21, 2020, 07:25 PM - Edit history (2)

However, I don't think this is helpful to the Democratic party establishing some real unity for their nominee. I agree with the person you are responding to that this really is not the time. It is also not the first time she has made her case against Bernie Sanders. I doubt this will shock any Sanders supporter and cause him/her to shift to another candidate. In fact, it might make them double down.

I think it more likely that seeing Sanders and - even more so - his surrogates attack Biden and Warren could lessen his appeal. Obviously in a primary, there are arguments on who can best win, who has the best vision and who has the positions that people want to support. What is different is that these recent attacks are personal. For Biden, they also mirror the Trump attacks. Biden was in the Senate, enjoying good seniority for most of that time. Yet he was among the poorest Senators when he became VP. Those attacks might lead some of the less committed Sanders supporters to reconsider their support. Those attacks, which echo the accusations of Clinton and others in the past, are troubling.

Ironically, this Clinton blast could actually take air from the issue of the Sanders attack and lead to defense of Sanders on some parts. (ie Clinton says no one liked him in the Senate - how many journalists do you think are searching to find typical comments where Senators or former Senators have said - "I like Bernie Sanders .." ) Hillary has already written 2 books mostly on 2016. What is the urgency to agree to do this now?

I admit part of my problem is that I still fault Bill Clinton for thinking that June 2004 was the best time to put his book out. I seriously doubt that Kerry appreciated that the most prominent Democrat in the country in the June and July was on TV answering questions on issues the media was most interested in - such as why the Monica problem happened.

[calimary]

160. Um... "Democrat party"?

[karynnj]

262. autocorrect on my phone!

Thanks - I changed it.

[calimary]

345. Thanks. Good job.

Sorry, my inner fire alarm has been going off all day today!

[ehrnst]

95. And she should smile more. But not laugh...

That's irritating to many men, so silencio, HRC!!

[Demsrule86]

468. She has an annoying laugh...or so I hear. It just grates on male ears...

[ehrnst]

473. There was actually a study on that....

During the height of Hillary Clinton’s 2016 campaign, she was so besieged with charges of “shrillness” that the Atlantic magazine interviewed experts to figure out what made her voice so allegedly irritating. They found that her so-called shrill voice was actually “average in pitch and loudness for her age and gender.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/video/index/493814/the-science-behind-hating-hillarys-voice/

Mommy issues....

[Demsrule86]

474. Some don't like powerful women. They destroyed her damn it.

why wont she stay that way...she persisted and they hate it and her.

[ehrnst]

475. They associate the last woman with authority in their lives with Mom, or

"an old bitch school teacher."

[Demsrule86]

476. Yep Mommy issues.

[xmas74]

24. Maybe

Or she purposely takes live fire from Bernie Bros, which she's used to,and allows the actual candidates a breather from nonstop attacks. Imo, this really benefits Warren and Klobuchar. Both could use a breather, especially Warren.

[MrsCoffee]

33. She should do whatever the fuck she wants.

[Thekaspervote]

177. +1,000,000 X 10

[emmaverybo]

376. Here, here! Second your emotion and right on to Mrs. Coffee.

[Squinch]

329. THERE'S the right answer!!!! She took all she needs to take. Now she gets to do

what she wants to do.

[yardwork]

50. Why can't the woman be quiet. And sit down. /sarcasm

[bloom]

54. I think her timing is spot on. n/t

[ehrnst]

83. We're not telling people to wait until after the election to endorse candidates.

We want honest, informed evaluations of candidates from people who know them and worked with them.

[LSFL]

360. That's what I look for in a candidate.

Someone who makes me feel alienated when others in the same party don't buy in.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

269. Yes, Hillary would have been wise to hold off... instead, her comments only create rifts

in the Democratic Party, which helps the PEE-resident... BIG mistake on Hillary's part.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[ehrnst]

280. Hillary isn't the first one to talk about this aspect of Bernie...

https://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/anger-management-sanders-fights-for-employees-except-his-own/Content?oid=2834657

Barney Frank talked about it years ago as well about their time in Congress.

[lapucelle]

293. What rift? Between who?

[lapucelle]

294. Women who speak their minds without asking permission...

[TexasTowelie]

21. K&R! nt

[betsuni]

25. K&R

[jrthin]

26. Hillary, you rock!!!!!! nt

[radical noodle]

27. There is nothing wrong with speaking the truth

when his campaign is spreading untruths about our candidates.

[spooky3]

78. ITA Nt

[highplainsdem]

28. The Hoarse Whisperer: Hillary isn't relitigating 2016. She's telling the truth about Bernie in 2020.

Link to tweet

In *the past week*, Bernie’s campaign has:

- tried to undermine Warren
- all but called her a liar
- lied about Biden
- gotten caught
- been forced to apologize

No, Hillary isn’t relitigating 2016.

She’s telling the truth about Bernie in 2020.

[Skya Rhen]

30. +1,000,000

[dalton99a]

39. Hillary speaks the unvarnished truth.

[ehrnst]

79. Indeed. That's certainly currently relevant. (nt)

[thesquanderer]

112. Won't commit to endorsing him if he's the nominee? Makes no sense (unless she's running 3rd party).

Last edited Tue Jan 21, 2020, 05:44 PM - Edit history (1)

[TwilightZone]

332. Not what she said.

"I'm not going to go there yet. We're still in a very vigorous primary season."

[thesquanderer]

335. It's not too early to say you will support whoever the Dem nominee is against Trump.

She was not willing to say that?

[grantcart]

118. +1

[calimary]

133. THIS!!!

Absolutely This!!!

You were ROBBED, Madam Should-be President.

We ALL were robbed.

[Gothmog]

138. I love the Hoarse Whisperer's comments on this

[nolabear]

152. Amen. They're doing the same shit. I won't be taken hostage.

[Cha]

465. Thank you for that, hpd!

Link to tweet

[Botany]

29. You know about people from the company they keep

Bernie has Davis Sirota (Hillary basher and passed on Russian "dirt" on Hillary),
Nina Turner (bomb thrower), and some woman who worked for Jill Stein in 2016
working for him.

[madville]

31. Is this where we say not to rerun the 2016 primary?

I can’t believe Bernie and his followers keep bringing this up (insert sarcastic eye roll here).

[Evergreen Emerald]

32. She is absolutely correct again.

We continue to ignore her at our own peril.

[dalton99a]

34. "It's not only him, it's the culture around him. It's his leadership team."

If he gets the nomination, will you endorse and campaign for him?

I'm not going to go there yet. We're still in a very vigorous primary season. I will say, however, that it's not only him, it's the culture around him. It's his leadership team. It's his prominent supporters. It's his online Bernie Bros and their relentless attacks on lots of his competitors, particularly the women. And I really hope people are paying attention to that because it should be worrisome that he has permitted this culture — not only permitted, [he] seems to really be very much supporting it. And I don't think we want to go down that road again where you campaign by insult and attack and maybe you try to get some distance from it, but you either don't know what your campaign and supporters are doing or you're just giving them a wink and you want them to go after Kamala [Harris] or after Elizabeth [Warren]. I think that that's a pattern that people should take into account when they make their decisions.

[squirecam]

65. Well

She’s not wrong....

[calimary]

171. True. She's NOT wrong.

Not in the least! And I think it’s something that needs to be said. Maybe an uncomfortable truth, to some, but still a truth nonetheless.

[ehrnst]

202. All true, and very valid points.

And he has to win the nomination for her endorsment to become relevant at all.

As always, if a candidate wants someone to endorse and campaign for them, that candidate should show respect for the person whose endorsement they seek.

For instance, comply with their request for a charted jet to take them to events where they will endorse, and stand by and smile even if the endorser starts every endorsement speech with how well they did against the candidate in the last election.

[Cha]

347. Exactly, Hillary!

Thank you, Dalton.

[YOHABLO]

35. And Hillary wasn't a career politician?

[BannonsLiver]

105. She was First Lady of the US and Arkansas for 16 years.

She also worked as an attorney. What jobs outside government has Bernie had?

Answer: None.

I’d say Hillary made better use of her time in govt. anyway. Unless one finds renaming post offices impressive.

[frazzled]

108. She was a practicing attorney for twenty years

with a wide and varied career in law, before becoming First Lady when her husband was elected in 1992. So no, she had a vibrant career before becoming a politician in 2000.

Sanders never had a "career" before going into politics professionally (he did some carpentry, self-admittedly not all that well, and wrote for some alternative papers for a few years, but that was it).

[ehrnst]

143. No, not really. As a Senator/Sec of State, only 12 years total. She spent 20 years as a lawyer.

[lapucelle]

296. Secretary of State is not a political position. Neither is attorney, first lady, non-profit founder,

author, or private citizen.

She was a politician from 1999-2009 and 2015-2016.

That's 12 years.

[Cha]

321. lol.. oh ouch.. Hillary nailed it.

[Blue_true]

371. No. Her political career spanned something like 9 years.

Bernie has been in Washington for 30 years and ran for office in Vermont years before that.

[Demsrule86]

469. And she accomplished more.

[Blue_true]

471. Yes. nt

[Demsrule86]

472. Hillary Rodham Clinton is a woman of substance and character. There will never by another like her..

[MineralMan]

37. Well, She Appears to Have a Strong Opinion to Share.

Her concise statement pretty much covers that opinion.

[comradebillyboy]

40. Thank you Hillary

[58Sunliner]

41. All you have to do is look at his record. What has he accomplished??

I think he has become addicted to the limelight and money, and power of a bully pulpit.

[dalton99a]

43. +1. A real all-talk, do-nothing politician.

[58Sunliner]

57. I'm afraid so.

[calimary]

174. He sure did like being treated like a rock star.

He even commented on it during the last campaign, regarding his devotees: “I feel like a rock star!”

[Gothmog]

400. sanders was such a weak and marginal candidate that he was treated with kid gloves and not vetted

The Clinton campaign had a 100+ page well written memorandum on opposition research on sanders but never had to use it because sanders was such a weak candidate that it was not needed. sanders was mathematically eliminated after the Super Tuesday contests and never had a chance of being the nominee and so there was never a need to vet him

The Clinton campaign treated Sanders with kid gloves because sanders had no chance in the real world of being the nominee. The press did not vet sanders because sanders was such a weak candidate and it would have been a waste of their time. VOX had a good article on the potential lines of attack that Sanders would be exposed to if Sanders was the nominee. http://www.vox.com/2016/2/3/10903404/gop-campaign-against-sanders One of the more interesting observations in the VOX analysis is the fact that sanders have been treated with kids gloves compared to what sanders would face if he was the Democratic nominee. I strongly agree with the VOX's position that the so-called negative attacks against sanders have been mild. Form the article:

I have no interest in litigating any of these attacks here. Like any Democrat elected president in 2016, Sanders wouldn't be able to get much done, but he would block attempts to roll back Obama's accomplishments and have a chance to fill a few Supreme Court vacancies.

When Sanders supporters discuss these attacks, though, they do so in tones of barely contained outrage, as though it is simply disgusting what they have to put up with. Questioning the practical achievability of single-payer health care. Impugning the broad electoral appeal of socialism. Is nothing sacred?

But c'mon. This stuff is patty-cakes compared with the brutalization he would face at the hands of the right in a general election.

His supporters would need to recalibrate their umbrage-o-meters in a serious way.

sanders was treated with kid gloves by the Clinton campaign because of the amusing over-reactions of the sanders supporters in the primary process. It appears that you are upset that Hillary Clinton did not use all of the oppo research that was available. sanders was a weak candidate and would have been destroyed if the oppo research was used.

[notinkansas]

42. hollywoodreporter? Really?

This statement does not sound like anything Hillary would say to me. Add to that how unwise it would be to trash any democratic nominee. It would be like endorsing Trump. And you know she would never do that.

[MrsCoffee]

64. Oh come on.

It is in no way shape or form an endorsement of Trump. It is a warning about Sanders. And if anyone should be in a position to warn others about Sanders, it would be Hillary Clinton. Her warning about Tulsi Gabbard was also at the right time.

Sanders has been trashing his opponents and the Democratic Party relentlessly. If you want to scold someone about helping Trump, Bernie would be the one to talk to.

"If it were a one-off, you might say, "OK, fine." But he said I was unqualified. I had a lot more experience than he did, and got a lot more done than he had, but that was his attack on me. I just think people need to pay attention because we want, hopefully, to elect a president who's going to try to bring us together, and not either turn a blind eye, or actually reward the kind of insulting, attacking, demeaning, degrading behavior that we've seen from this current administration."

[ehrnst]

137. Being candid on your working experience with a candidate, especially during a primary, is valuable.

If we are open to endorsements of primary candidates, then we also need to be open to less than glowing reports on them from people who have worked with them.

Waiting until after the primary would be wrong.

[riversedge]

163. Watch Hillary..Covers Bernie, Trump 2016 Loss & a "Larger Story About Women" in New Sundance Doc

I think it is well worth the time to read the article watch the video to get a fuller picture of the Documentary.

Link to tweet

?s=20



Hillary Clinton in Full: A Fiery New Documentary, Trump Regrets and Harsh Words for Bernie: "Nobody Likes Him"

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/hillary-clinton-full-a-fiery-new-documentary-trump-regrets-harsh-words-bernie-1271551
by Lacey Rose
January 21, 2020, 4:00am PST

With four-part Hulu series 'Hillary' set to premiere at Sundance, one of America's most groundbreaking (and polarizing) figures opens up about Monica Lewinsky, her marriage, whether a woman can win the presidency and her not-so-fuzzy feelings about Bernie Sanders: "Nobody wants to work with him."

In the fall of 2017, producer Howard T. Owens got a call from famed Washington power broker Robert Barnett. Barnett's longtime client, Hillary Clinton, was sitting on nearly 2,000 hours of campaign footage and planned to turn it into a documentary. Hulu was already on board to distribute it domestically, but would Owens consider producing and selling it abroad?

The son of a onetime Democratic state senator from Connecticut and himself the former head of National Geographic Channel, Owens was immediately interested. He'd have to meet and woo Secretary Clinton and her top aide, Huma Abedin, he was told, and then, with the streamer, begin compiling a list of potential filmmakers. The only requirement: that she be female.

Nanette Burstein, a political junkie whose résumé included the celebrated 2002 Robert Evans documentary The Kid Stays in the Picture, was Owens' top choice. After a meeting in February 2018, she'd be Clinton's, too. Burstein's pitch was for "something much bigger than the election," says the documentarian, who set out to explore how Clinton had become one of the country's most admired and vilified people, and what that status says about gender and culture. That Clinton was, for the first time in years, not in office or running for office meant that such an intimate portrait was within reach.



Share: Hillary Clinton Covers Bernie, Trump 2016 Loss and a "Larger Story About Women" in New Sundance Documentary
Hillary Rodham Clinton is the subject of Nanette Burstein's latest film, a four-part Hulu documentary
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Hillary Clinton Covers Bernie, Trump 2016 Loss and a "Larger Story About Women" in New Sundance Documentary

Still, Burstein would need ample access to Clinton and her husband, Bill, as well as complete editorial control. To her relief, she was granted both. "The Clintons have a reputation for being controlling, but from the moment we met Hillary, we saw zero of it," says Owens, who confirms that no subject was off-limits. Clinton would end up giving 35 hours of her time, recounting everything from her husband's affair as president with then-intern Monica Lewinsky to election night 2016, when her own presidency eluded her grasp.





Yuri Hasegawa
"I’d watched the 2016 election very closely, very emotionally and very disappointedly," says Nanette Burstein, photographed with Clinton.

The end result, simply titled Hillary, is a largely flattering portrayal, even as it delves into the many scandals and controversies that have ensnared its 72-year-old subject. Burstein has made peace with the inevitable flak it will catch from Clinton detractors who'll take issue with the doc's lack of conservative voices (save former Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist). It's not, she and her producers insist, for lack of trying. Instead, they got one no after the next. "We were shocked," says Owens, who blames a toxic, polarized political culture for the near shutout. At one point, Burstein says, she managed to track down Newt Gingrich by cellphone, and was told he'd "rather stick needles in [his] eyes than do the interview."

While prominently featured, neither Lewinsky (who was contributing to an A&E docuseries on the subject at the time), Bernie Sanders nor Donald Trump was asked to participate. "I didn't want to re-litigate 2016," the director explains, "as much as just be able to show Hillary in this unobtrusive way." Forty-five others do, however, including her husband (who holds back tears as he, too, walks through the Lewinsky chapter) and daughter, childhood friends, aides and advisers, a litany of journalists and her onetime opponent turned boss, Barack Obama. "This is not an agenda piece," says Hulu's head of docs, Belisa Balaban. "It's an authored piece of work that looks at a very long slice of personal and political history."........................................

[calimary]

181. The Hollywood Reporter was/is widely regarded as credible.

I used to be an entertainment reporter. The HR and Variety were the “bibles” everybody in the industry read every morning. And still do.

And since this piece is part of coverage of a new documentary effort - what’s the name of it? “Hillary”? Why shouldn’t there be a corresponding interview with the still-living subject of that documentary, particularly such a controversial and monumentally historical figure?

This is totally proper and on the level. And she’s free to say and opine in any damn way she damn well wants to.

[Thekaspervote]

182. He's not a democrat for starters

She did us all a big favor!! Voters need to see the real side of sanders... not just hear pie in the sky promises that will NEVER become law

[m-lekktor]

424. "Voters need to see the real side of Sanders" They have and that is why he has risen in the polls

since the Hillary attack. Voters are seeing the real side of Hillary Clinton actually. Outside of DU, the backlash to her comments has been like a sunami. I am sure record breaking small donations are pouring in to the Bernie campaign like they did after the Elizabeth Warren stunt.

[betsuni]

426. ...

Tsunami.

[SoCalNative]

295. You do realize

that these quotes are coming from the Hulu documentary and not were not interview quotes given to the Hollywood Reporter, correct?

And BTW, the Hollywood Reporter is a very highly regarded source within the industry, as is its rival publication Variety. It is not a gossip rag.

[redgreenandblue]

44. Does going public with this now make Trumps re-election more likely or less likely?

Something tells me the answer is not "less likely".

[SidDithers]

94. If it helps defeat Bernie in the primary...

then it absolutely helps make Trump's re-election less likely.

Sid

[comradebillyboy]

100. Right on Sid!

[Thekaspervote]

184. This!! Bernie should go home to VT. For god sakes he's 78, has had an MI

Go home, write another book... I’m sure you will find a market. Enjoy what time you have left on this earth

[ehrnst]

208. Bernie is capable of doing that all by himself, with no help from Hillary or anyone else.(nt)

[emmaverybo]

216. THIS

[NurseJackie]

220. Perfect summary. Thank you!

[Cha]

466. +1

[lapucelle]

403. She went "public" with it last year when she was interviewed

for a documentary film about her life. It's in the news now because the film is premiering at the Sundance Film Festival this week.

I don't see how in any way it makes Trump's re-election more likely.

[zentrum]

45. Wow, whoever wrote this tweet is sure indifferent

.....to suppressing the Democratic vote if Bernie becomes the candidate.

[Thekaspervote]

186. Ponder these numbers... he isn't going to be the nominee

Sanders got 40% of Democratic Primary vote in '16, he's running half that this time. Even if he got 100% of Warren's support, he'd still be behind his '16 vote total. thehill.com

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

271. Hillary is smart enough to know that.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[B Stieg]

46. Wow. I've always been uncomfortable with Bernie's mien, but...

this goes pretty far.
However, if Bernie is the nominee, I will vote for him in the general election. Period.
He may have some rough edges, but tRump is evil.

[ehrnst]

88. No one is saying "Don't vote for Bernie in the general."

If we seek endorsments from those who have worked with a candidate, we should also be open to those who have less than glowing references.

[yardwork]

47. I agree with what Hillary said in this interview.

These are all the same reasons why I don't support Sanders in the primaries.

[scheming daemons]

49. Hillary is correct

And i wrongfully had a thread hidden for saying the same thing.

[Fresh_Start]

124. me too

still figure we can't tell the truth about bernie here

[TreasonousBastard]

260. Me, too-- several in fact

[walkingman]

51. I think she needs to just shut up. She had her chance and she lost. Why cause

discourse? As Democrats we should support all candidates - period. Our goal is o defeat the worst President in American history [even worse than "W"] and if we are not careful we will do just the opposite.

[MrsCoffee]

66. Yeah, go you, telling that woman to shut up!

She should do whatever the fuck she wants. She didn't lose. She won by three million votes. She was kept from office because of fucking TREASON.

If you feel the need to legitimize Trump, go for it, but I'm not ever going to believe that or do that.

[ehrnst]

69. Are you doing this kind of scolding on the many threads that are not supportive of other candidates?

Or just when women are the ones not doing the supporting of a particular candidate?

[walkingman]

125. OK - I give up. Sorry to offend anyone. I'm beginning to understand but I fear we are shooting

ourselves in the foot and the result will be losing. When people get offended they might not vote like what happened last time. BTW - I have always voted Democratic and will continue to do so. Just discussing things these days seems to be a challenge so as not to offend anyone.

[JustAnotherGen]

213. Write to Hulu

It's their documentary. If you want it off the air - write the leadership at the Company.

Good, bad, indifferent - A First Lady never has to shut up.

[emmaverybo]

274. Meantime Bernie is attempting to destroy Biden's chances. Biden has emerged as the candidate

most likely, as a projection based on the primary contest thus far, to win the nomination and go on to beat Trump. Now, Clinton might have influenced primary voters and the voters we need in the GE to “consider the source,” as they encounter lies and distortions Bernie’s campaign promotes—against Warren too.

If there’s backlash, well, those Bernie supporters whose motto is Bernie or bust were always going to defect if their idol was not nominated.

True progressives, as opposed to cult followers, will vote blue to stop Trump. And although Biden consistently leads the pack, anything can and does happen. If Warren were to pick up, becoming the nominee, she would have also escaped damage from Bernie’s scorched earth campaigning, also benefit from Hilary’s honest evaluation and corral the progressive vote.

Hilary’s assessment helps us far more than it harms. Further, she is a far more popular and accomplished political figure than Bernie whose divisive politicking is more than a meme,

[ehrnst]

288. So, you think anyone saying anything but praise about a candidate should "shut up?"

Honest endorsements, but no honest reports of drawbacks?

My understanding is that is exactly what's supposed to happen during primaries.

That "October surprise" from the GOP is what we don't want.

[ehrnst]

236. "Shooting ourselves in the foot?" By discussing HRC's comments on DU?

I thought that's what a discussion board is intended for...

[JustAnotherGen]

127. She had her chance, she warned us, the election was rigged by Russians

And she should never EVER shut up.

She has brought to light concerns about Senator Sanders and speaks for a LOT of people who share her concerns.

I want a flawless candidate. We get there by vetting, vetting, vetting, and getting all the little shit they've said/done out there WELL BEFORE the Convention.

When women 'shut up' - America fails. We got this shit going in 2018 - and we are NOT going to sit down and shut up.

Are we clear?

[delisen]

147. This is America. We get chances + free speech

Clinton knows that Jill Stein's people in charge of the Democratic party will destroy the party and democracy in America.
Sanders revealed his intentions when he hired them.

[George II]

156. So why don't you tell the other candidate who "had a chance and lost" to shut up?

[Cha]

290. Excellent Suggestion.

[ehrnst]

384. +1000!!!!

[Thekaspervote]

189. News flash!! She didn't lose.. she won by 3 mil votes. The election was stolen

Just as it was with Gore and Kerry

[ehrnst]

225. More votes than anyone not named Obama...

[xmas74]

193. Did it feel good to tell a woman to shut up? Nt

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

261. GOOD QUESTION!! THE DISCOURSE ONLY HELPS TRUMPTY DUMBTY!!

Hillary is not helping the Democratic Party with these comments.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[lapucelle]

300. ...

[Rilgin]

391. Dont worry, this is just the daily Bernie Bash

This is my first post in years. I used to love this site. I still read but no longer post because every day there are posts like this one where you have 400 (at this time) or more posts by the exact same names every day bashing Bernie and his supporters while claiming that the reason is that Bernie supporters constantly bash. All you have to do is read the accusations of the replies in this thread to see what happens here on a daily basis to no good result. And certainly other candidates get posts against them but rarely is it with such a sense of hypocrisy where you have a constant every day attack on every aspect and every public appearance or utterance of a candidate or a supporter of that candidate as proof that that candidate should not be supported because they bash others.

The constancy of the attacks prolongs divisions in the party, reinforces the sense of justified indignation on the part of the posters on this thread and alienation of the people who identify with the target of all the negative attacks on this Thread.

And know the same will occur tomorrow and the next day and the choir will chime in like clockwork adding additional bashes against
Bernie and his supporters while pretending it is newly discovered thought that they do not support Bernie. And any thread started becomes invaded by the outright bashers of Bernie and his supporters who later ignore their own bashing to concentrate on others. And yes it occurs with other candidates and threads but this particular original poster posted this explicitly so the usual choir can chime in.

Notice that in this response I have not mentioned any other present or past candidates but have limited it to this thread itself and the fact that every single time I have looked at this site or any other political site, I see the same names (or names on that site) derailing every thread with massive hypocrisy. I have my opinions of the candidates but will not impose my opinions as facts or bash someone else for supporting their own. I wish posters could just support their candidate and not make others alienated for supporting theirs. I find it sad.

[melman]

52. Where are unity scolds?

[NYMinute]

58. They went by the way of Biden's doctored video and Zephyr's bold lie. nt

[melman]

60. Sure they did

If Bernie even remotely hinted he might not support the Dem. nominee they'd be back in a hurry.

[yardwork]

71. Bernie did exactly tgatvin 2016. And his 2020 campaign leaders did it too.

[melman]

75. Say what?

Bernie refused to support the Dem. nominee in 2016? That is absolutely false.

[yardwork]

89. His current campaign leadership BRAGGED about voting for Jill Stein.

Jane Sanders tweeted on Election Day 2016 that it was fine to have voted third party.

When asked by the media if he supported Clinton after she secured the nomination, Bernie said nothing, kicked the ground and scowled. I saw it.

[melman]

99. .

[melman]

110. watch this

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

144. I was at the National Convention as a vetted delegate-sanders was not interested in helping Clinton

sanders sent one very weak text the Sunday night before the convention and then did little or nothing to control his delegates. It was nasty I was there when the sanders delegates booed Congressman John Lewis and Elijah Cummings. Stacy Abrams and other African American speakers were also booed.. I was warned about the planned stunt of booing John Lewis 30 minutes before it happened by the Clinton campaign whip. According to my whip, sanders was asked to stop this event and declined.

I was at the Texas delegation breakfast when a group of sanders delegates marched in and demanded that we condemn Clinton and change our votes to sanders.

sanders spoke to the Texas delegation the next morning and his speech was again solely about himself. There was a mini-riot due to his delegates the prior morning and the only thing that sanders talked about was himself. sanders did nothing to deal with the fact that his delegates were out of control and did nothing to try to help Hillary Clinton win the general election.

Finally a group of sanders delegates yelled at my daughter and called her the c-Word because she would not try to get me to change my vote. Again sanders was asked to tell his delegates to behave during the convention and sanders refused

Attending a national convention is an once in a life time experience. I did not care about sanders delegates yelling at me (yelling at a lawyer is a waste of time) but I do care that the sanders delegates disrupted the convention and hurt Clinton. Again, a National Convention is supposed to be an event to help put a positive face on the general election campaign. sanders delegates did a great job of messing this up

[dalton99a]

159. +1.

[ehrnst]

167. Best to know everything about a candidate before the primaries. (nt)

[yardwork]

221. I believe you. I'm being treated the same way by a Sanders supporter in RL.

[ehrnst]

305. I know it hurts to get schooled, but he said he wouldn't committ to support

the 2020 Democratic nominee.

Reading the link before you comment on it helps.

[Thekaspervote]

190. He has already publicly stated he may not support the dem nominee

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/bernie-sanders-2016-rigged-wont-pledge-support-winner.html

[ehrnst]

277. He has directly and publicly stated this last Summer

Do try to keep up...

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/bernie-sanders-2016-rigged-wont-pledge-support-winner.html

[melman]

298. lol

[ehrnst]

304. Facts refuting your statements coming at you that fast....

Looks like they really hurt...

[melman]

387. No

that's what's known as an own goal. And it's the kind of humorous gif one might post to illustrate when someone thinks they made one point but actually made the opposite one.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Own_goal




Bracing myself for the sharp retort telling me it's not really humorous and other totally devastating things.


I hope I can handle it.

[ehrnst]

388. Being schooled really smarts, doesn't it?

C'mon... you'll be OK. You just got proven wrong about something by some people here.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=437136

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=436807

Chin up! You'll feel better after you've had some sleep.

[Thekaspervote]

383. Some facts to back up your opinion?

[melman]

385. Which opinion is that?

[ehrnst]

421. "If Bernie even remotely hinted he might not support the Dem. nominee they'd be back in a hurry."

You're welcome.

[melman]

436. I'm afraid if you follow the post chain you'll find two things

1. The question was asked by someone else

2. It wasn't in response to that post at all but rather the own goal post. You remember the own goal post, yes?


So, given these two facts how can you be so sure that that's the question in question?


I submit that you cannot.

[ehrnst]

441. I submit that your pique indicates that I have hit the nail on the head.

[Cha]

462. Thank you for that.. BS is WRONG.

[lapucelle]

301. And the dissembling concerning Elizabeth Warren. N/T

[George II]

63. Is Hillary Clinton a candidate or a surrogate? No.

[ehrnst]

131. On every OP on Sanders that doesn't flatter him. (nt)

[scheming daemons]

178. So the people who mass tweeted the "#NeverWarren" hashtag are upset about this?

Interesting...

[melman]

275. Feel free to provide some proof that I am one of these people

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

259. Cue the crickets... Chirp! Chirp!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[ehrnst]

273. Yeah, some pretty loud chirping...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=436660

[BootinUp]

289. with the D party perhaps? Nt

[RandySF]

53. I've known that for decades.

[aikoaiko]

61. SMDH - I'm stunned that she would be so politically stupid to say this.

Last edited Tue Jan 21, 2020, 02:18 PM - Edit history (1)

But good for her for keeping her name in the spotlight this primary season.

I'm sure her comments will help us in November.

[MrsCoffee]

77. She is brilliant. Good on her.

I, for one, am thankful she is getting the truth out now.

"If it were a one-off, you might say, "OK, fine." But he said I was unqualified. I had a lot more experience than he did, and got a lot more done than he had, but that was his attack on me. I just think people need to pay attention because we want, hopefully, to elect a president who's going to try to bring us together, and not either turn a blind eye, or actually reward the kind of insulting, attacking, demeaning, degrading behavior that we've seen from this current administration."

[ehrnst]

91. If one is seeking references for someone one is hiring, one doesn't ignore the ones

that are less than glowing...

At least not if one wants the whole story on the person you are considering hiring.

In what way is what she is saying "politically stupid?"

[JustAnotherGen]

134. This ehrnst

This is a job application for the highest office in America - I want to know EVERYTHING. Including the words of a woman who won 3 million more votes than MF45.

[ehrnst]

146. +10000.

[aikoaiko]

145. Bernie probably isn't going to win the nomination, but he isn't going to go away.

Hillary bashing Bernie will only fill his coffers more even if she successfully steers votes away (which would be unnecessary).

If its a war between Bernie supporters and Bernie haters, then we lose in 2020.

[ehrnst]

227. She's not saying anything that hasn't been said by others for years

https://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/anger-management-sanders-fights-for-employees-except-his-own/Content?oid=2834657

What "war" are you talking about?

[aikoaiko]

150. But one might ignore (or at least take with many grains of salt) those sucking on sour grapes.

I think the statement that nobody likes him is so blatantly false that one could discard her entirely.

[AtheistCrusader]

120. Why can't we just have a horse race primary and let it fucking finish for once?

What the hell is wrong with us.

We have to have a winner now! We have to have unity now! No attacking each other! yadda whatever.
If the timing is too close for a fair primary with a fixed finish line, then the primary system is broken, and we didn't fix it after the last fucking mess.

[JustAnotherGen]

135. I disagree

She's stopping the Russian rigging this time.

[ehrnst]

168. Where did you hear this? And how does this "stop" Bernie?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

276. Of all the things Hillary could have said or done... and she chose this!! Just wow!!

Hillary has just made it harder for the Democratic Party to win in November.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[lsewpershad]

67. Not sure it's the right thing to do.

Are we fighting old battles?

[MrsCoffee]

70. No. This is about 2020.

[ehrnst]

73. You mean like bringing up Biden's 1974 statements? The Iraq War resolution votes?

Warren having been a Republican years ago?

Like those?

[OliverQ]

72. Democrats eating each other alive as usual.

Guess Dems really want Trump to win again. So much for "Vote blue no matter what."

[ehrnst]

74. Who here said they are not "voting blue no matter what?"

What is their name?

[SidDithers]

97. I see a life-long Democrat commenting about a life-long Independent...

Sid

[ehrnst]

76. She worked closely with him, and has a unique perspective.

[Zeus69]

80. I get it, but...

Doesn't this leave room for reduced voter turnout or perhaps turning voters toward Trump?

[MrsCoffee]

82. No it leaves room to pick a unifying candidate.

And that ain't Bernie.

[Thekaspervote]

196. A percentage of sanders supporters will not vote dem if it isn't him regardless

So no, it won’t suppress voter turnout or push voters towards dotard that were not already of that mind set.

Knowledge is power!!

[YOHABLO]

357. You don't know that. Have you spoken to each and every Sanders supporter?

I support Sanders or Warren, and I will support Biden if he's our nominee. So here's one got wrong.

[BannonsLiver]

81. Truer words have NEVER been spoken by any human ever.

Thank you Madame Secretary!

[James48]

84. CNN says: That's good for Bernie.

Why Hillary Clinton hating on Bernie Sanders is great news for him

(CNN)Hillary Clinton is no fan of Bernie Sanders.

While anyone who watched the 2016 primary fight between the two could have probably figured that out, Clinton left zero doubt about her feelings for the Vermont senator in an interview with The Hollywood Reporter in advance of a forthcoming Hulu documentary about her life.



https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/21/politics/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-2020/index.html

[Thekaspervote]

200. Sure....and is that why following all his negative attack ads his poll numbers are tanking??!!!

[ehrnst]

238. Well, Hillary wasn't the one to break that news.

Barney Frank talked about it years ago.

Mickey Hirten, the editor of the Burlington Free Press when Bernie was mayor talked about it.

Former staffers have talked about it...

https://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/anger-management-sanders-fights-for-employees-except-his-own/Content?oid=2834657

[Scurrilous]

396. Thanks for this link ehrnst!

[ehrnst]

427. You're welcome. The more you know....

[lapucelle]

306. I knew it was going to be Chris Cilizza before the link even opened.

[ehrnst]

350. Me too!!! Jinx!!!

[LexVegas]

86. Amen! nt

[RhodeIslandOne]

90. Saying no one likes him only increases his "outsider" cred

This isn't the best critique of Sanders.

Also, who's the one Senator that liked him? Russ Feingold? That's a feather in his cap.

Just not sure this works as a hit on him.

[ehrnst]

102. Some of his supporters have told me that his colleagues that don't endorse him "feel shameful

and dirty by comparison with his purity of vision and ethics."

Sure. I've always heard that when coworkers and colleagues hesitate to recommend someone for a promotion, that's totally a good thing, and you should promote them because of that.

[CentralMass]

98. I voted for Hillary in 2008 and in the general in 2016 but have strong reasons why she did not get

primary vote in 2016. Her 3rd way politics and telling Wall St "we got into this together and we will get out of it together. " cganged my mind over time.

I was a strong supporter in 2008 but have say that was a vicious campaign. The PUMAS never forgot. The same group rhat deternined that 12% of Bernie voters voted for tRump in the general in 2016 cited that 24% of Clinton voters in 2008 voted for McCain
I went from buying her rationale on her war votes to questioning her mind set after watching the interview when the news hit that Qaddafi had been killed in the streets. No love lost over Qaddafi but her reaction was unsettling.



IMO that there is a level of campaign hatred that still permeates the air and it is not coming from the Sanders camp. Sanders is not the reason Hillary lost in 2016. His primary voters by the numbers were more loyal to the party then hers in the general. That study nentioned above found that the Sanders tRump voters were not likely Democrats anyway.

[jg10003]

115. well said

[LiberalLovinLug]

239. Yes well said.

Amazing how many pile on Sanders, re-fighting the last primaries, totally breaking the rules, as long as they hide behind Hillary's grudge problem. As long as its Hillary re-fighting it, her own lack of self discipline to choose. at the very least, not to say anything, if you can't say anything nice....(or unifying), we can discuss that?. If we dare bring up we are concerned about this present primary's administrative fairness based on the DNC's own admissions from leaks....we are "re-fighting" 2016. I speak from experience.Its baffling.
Its not coming from the Sanders group. You are right.

[Bradical79]

356. Yep. Slightly critisize Biden...

...they complain about eating our own. Bernie is viciously attacked personally, and certain people are ready to throw a party.

[Cha]

467. YEAH...

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

FALSE!

Link to tweet

[Beringia]

101. Sanders did 47 campaign rallies for Hillary in 2016

Hillary did 10 for Barack Obama.

[ehrnst]

103. What does that have to do with Hillary's comments concerning Senator Sanders?

And it's not like this is the first time people who have worked with Sanders have commented on what he's like to work with.

https://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/anger-management-sanders-fights-for-employees-except-his-own/Content?oid=2834657

Barney Frank made similar observations about his interactions with Bernie when they were both in Congress.

[Beringia]

122. What does it mean when someone you have helped

get elected and put your horsepower behind, throws you in a ditch?

It means something to me.

Also Hillary got criticized very much for having a cold personality.

[ehrnst]

377. "throws you in a ditch?"

Goodness, that's dramatic.




"Horsepower?"



Yes, many men did say that she should 'smile more' didn't they?



So, maybe can you explain why it's OK, even a plus, when Bernie says it about himself, but when someone else says it, it's "throwing him in a ditch?

Link to tweet

[BannonsLiver]

107. Link?

Pretty sure he didn’t do 47 events.

[Beringia]

116. 40 events

Link to tweet

/photo/2

[BannonsLiver]

119. Eh, sorry but the source is a Bernie acolyte

No can do on that one. Besides 40 isn’t 47, and a number doesn’t measure the half heartedness, I’m sure.

[Beringia]

123. The facts are there regardless of who compiled them

[BannonsLiver]

142. Righhhhht

[ehrnst]

165. The ones that his campaign wanted a chartered jet provided in order to attend.

When that became public later on, Sanders reimbursed the DNC for those chartered flights.

[Beringia]

169. Throwing the baby out with the bath water I see

[ehrnst]

237. Actually, just facts. (nt)

[CentralMass]

130. Googling the topic yields many links.

Here are rwo as an example.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/bernie-sanderss-hard-fight-for-hillary-clinton

https://www.wsj.com/articles/bernie-sanders-packs-schedule-with-campaign-stops-for-hillary-clinton-1475928002

[W_HAMILTON]

197. Sanders did 47 campaign rallies for *himself* on Hillary's dime.

I believe he didn't even mention her name at some of those rallies. His supporters regularly booed her and he didn't dissuade them. He used those rallies to sell his books rather than to sell the Democratic nominee.

[ehrnst]

241. Well, starting an 'endorsment' with how well one did against the candidate that one is endorsing

and repeating that "We can't let Donald Trump win," as the main point...

Then the endorser's spouse tweeting "It doesn't matter who you vote for, just that you vote" this out the day before the election....

Then immediately volunteering to replace the candidate one is endorsing when that candidate faints from dehydration...

eliminates any and all doubt that a candidate was getting the full support of the endorser, doesn't it?

[LongtimeAZDem]

334. This +1

[jg10003]

104. the circular firing squad begins. thanks Hillary for providing

Ammunition to the GOP if Sanders wins the nomination.

[BannonsLiver]

106. It's glorious!

[ehrnst]

113. The GOP can't google what people have been saying what Senator Sanders is like to work with

and for, going back years?

Hillary certainly isn't the first to share her experience working with Sanders.

https://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/anger-management-sanders-fights-for-employees-except-his-own/Content?oid=2834657

Simply googling "Barney Frank talks about his experience working with Bernie in Congress" will bring up other information.

or Mickey Hirten's experiences working with Bernie in Vermont.

Telling Hillary to stay quiet isn't going to prevent the GOP from finding out what they have known for years, and haven't deployed yet.

[jg10003]

129. I always had the impression that Barney Frank resented Sanders

For actually being the person that Frank imagines himself to be. Sanders has always lived up to the ideals that Farnk espouses but but failed to practice. That's just the feeling I got whenever I watched Frank talk about Sanders.

[ehrnst]

242. Barney Frank actually got Wall Street regulation into existence.

He was pro-gay marriage and pro-marijuana legalization when Bernie was still Mayor of Burlington.

But if you think his comments about Sanders working style means he has an inferiority complex concerning Bernie Sanders, and that it really reflects well on Sanders, then of course it must be true.



Yeah, I've heard that the lack of enthusiasm at times from the colleagues of Senator Sanders was actually due to them being "feeling "shameful" when they compare themselves to Sanders.



Of course, if one is interviewing one for a job, and the interviewee's colleagues won't recommend him for a promotion, I hear that's a really good sign, because it means that the interviewee was SO effective that they were the envy of their colleagues - hence the lack of recommendations.

Someone should break that to Liz Warren. All that vocal respect and praise means that people don't adequately resent her for being so effective.

[murielm99]

121. Thank you, Hillary,

for saying what many of us have known for years!

[The Valley Below]

126. I stand with HRC.

[BannonsLiver]

136. Not as much as I love watching her serve them

[ehrnst]

149. Sour Grapes? For what? She won the nomination by a wide margin.

[Gothmog]

132. I agree with Hillary Clinton

I saw some really horrible conduct at the National Convention by sanders delegates.

I will support the nominee of the party but I do not expect that sanders will be the nominee. There are far too many real Democrats who have good memories and who will not forgive or forget

[ehrnst]

139. Best to get all the endorsements and yes, less than glowing reports about primary candidates

before the Iowa Caucus.

[Tarc]

141. As a fervent Hillary supporter in 2008 and 2016, I'm out

this is a 2020 repackaging of the "BernieOrBust" shtick I spent untold hours and days railing against here.

Liz is still my #1, but Bernie would be fine too.

[Drunken Irishman]

148. Sorry - not a fan of Bernie's but this doesn't help anyone.

It's just more party division and it's going to create even more divide between the party and those we need to win in November.

I just don't see the point to comments like this. It doesn't change anyone's view on Bernie for the better. No one is going to think, "oh, Hillary's right!" and stop supporting Sanders.

It's just terrible optics that takes the attention off Trump.

[ehrnst]

161. We need to know about the candidates, not just endorsements, but honest reports

of relevant skills, or lack of them, for the office of POTUS.

We're hiring someone for a very important job. We need all of the information relevant to how they would perform on the job that we can get during the primaries.

If she wanted to be divisive, she would have waited until after the primary in the event that he got the primary.

But she didn't.

In any case, people have been talking about what it's like to work with Bernie Sanders for years, so it's not like this is surprising.

https://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/anger-management-sanders-fights-for-employees-except-his-own/Content

Barney Frank made similar observations about working with Bernie during their time together in Congress.

Mickey Hirten, the editor of the Burlington Free Press while Bernie was mayor, talked about his difficulties in working with people then.

Bernie's supporters say that they like that he doesn't change, so this shouldn't be a surprise to them, nor will they consider it to be a negative.

In fact, People For Bernie tweeted this out this week:

Link to tweet

[Drunken Irishman]

172. Nah not buying it. Sorry.

Hillary is helping no one but Bernie here. But I'm not surprised, Hillary's political timing over the years has just been awful. It's a big reason she's not president right now.

[ehrnst]

232. I didn't say you have to "buy it," so I don't need an apology.

Whatever you think of her "timing" she won the Democratic nomination by a wide margin, and got more votes for POTUS than anyone not named Obama.

It took the FBI working against her, and democratic voter suppression in three key states where she lost by a sliver to cheat her out of the office she won.

So there's that.

[Rilgin]

397. I take it

Lots of people have said many things about Hillary, Biden and every other candidate. I assume because someone said Hillary or Joe are liars it does not make them liars. And before you object, know that this is not my point. I am just using her as an example to show that just cause a person has a public perception or some people have negative interactions with a person it is proof that that is who they are. Do you believe Hillary is a liar and untrustworthy just because that is her general perception and certainly many people who have dealt with her have said that. I don't.

You seem to think that because Barny Frank at some point (probably after 2016 although I don't know that) said he could not work with him or didn't like him that makes if fact. Similarly, you quote a news paper editor. Other than that is just your own assertion that that is who he is.

My wife is a sweet person for most of the world but there are people that don't like her. It would be no proof that she is not nice just cause some people don't like her. And you give this credence to the candidates you support. Hillary factually had high negatives in the general public on her trustworthiness. However, you don't just accept that nor should you.

Now historically, I am 62 years old and have been political for all of my life and know that in my experience that prior to 1982 no harsh words were ever spoken about Bernie in democratic circles. No one envisioned that he would be a national figure or president because he was a strong leftist but all the accusations you throw at him were not historically public.

All the criticisms of Bernie started in 2016 when he had the effrontery to run for President against a candidate cleared for take off by the establishment democrats and even then he was appreciated as showing some other candidates until it turned out that rather than just being there for issues, her problems with negative perceptions were so deep (deserved or undeserved) pushed him from minor to an actual candidate. If Hillary did not have the problems with negatives and had not acted with help to clear her path to the nomination, his candidacy would probably not have taken off and he would still be a universally loved person in democratic circles.

[Drunken Irishman]

405. Hillary also ran against one of the worst candidates in modern American history.

Had Biden or Warren run in 2016, they would have wiped the floor with Trump. Hillary added nothing of value here. If Bernie is the nominee, what good does this do? If Bernie is not the nominee, what good does this do?

[nini]

151. Makes me love her even more

He has fooled many many people.

[BannonsLiver]

164. Those who are unable to process nuance are usually easily fooled

[Thekaspervote]

203. +1000 there's no one, not one person on this earth that has worked harder for the dem party

And the people of this country...

[R B Garr]

154. Hillary is right! It's too bad she couldn't be this honest

before because she had to appease his crowd. Not anymore.

[polichick]

157. Projection - but don't worry, "You're likeable enough, Hillary." BO

[nolabear]

158. I'm with her.

We need to beat him in the primary. I’d comfortably vote for just about anyone else. I’d feel sick voting for him.

[Kentonio]

256. That's ok. Many of us feel sick listening to Democrat's talk like that about a lifelong progressive.

[nolabear]

257. The past matters. Today matters more. I'm tired of proud outsiders.

We need someone who can work with others. Bernie makes me deeply nervous in that regard. He seems to think he’s got the ability to push things through without anyone’s support or agreement. I don’t disagree with some of his ideas. I think he’s utterly uninterested in many things I do care about. And those around him frankly creep me out.

[herding cats]

166. Bernie going negative against his opponents is what brought this on.

My first impression when I read this was it was a strategic move by Hillary. She can say what those attacked by Bernie want to, without the other candidates getting down in the mud and coming up dirty. Also, when she speaks people listen.

When you run a negative campaign you assume the risks of negativity being used against you. In this case instead of Warren or Biden having to climb down to that level, Hillary stepped into the fray.

It's pretty smart, actually. She's not a politician or a surrogate to any candidate and her words can't be used against any of those previously attacked.

Added bonus point: Now many of the angry Bernie supporters are going to be focused on attacking Hillary online and not the other candidates for awhile. I'm confident she can handle any snake emojis they want to toss her way.

[ehrnst]

204. Indeed. This might be a very shrewd move by HRC to draw attention.

I hope that the current candidates are appropriately appreciative.

[Thekaspervote]

205. Absolutely it has!!

[BooScout]

179. I love Hillary!

She tells it like it us.

[redqueen]

191. So after years of her supporters chastising any Bernie supporters

for not being sufficiently pro-Hillary, or focusing on the few who voted for Trump ( which btw more of Hillary's supporters voted for McCain over Obama ) - she says this?

Is she TRYING to help Trump? Does she actually want a schism?

This is so awful. This is ammo for Trump no matter who our nominee is.

Many people didn't vote FOR Hillary, they voted AGAINST Trump. I think a lot of Dems don't realize that she is not nearly as popular outside that bubble. In fact the opposite is true.

[ehrnst]

210. How is it ammo for Trump, if it's been out there on the internets for years?

https://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/anger-management-sanders-fights-for-employees-except-his-own/Content?oid=2834657

[redqueen]

194. All this did is further divisions. As expected. No idea why anyone is happy about this.

Link to tweet

[ehrnst]

198. If one is expecting people to endorse candidates, one needs to be open to less than glowing

reports of their skills or lack of them relevant to being POTUS.

And, please.... people have been talking about this aspect of Bernie for years.

https://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/anger-management-sanders-fights-for-employees-except-his-own/Content?oid=2834657

Barney Frank talked about it when they were in Congress together.

Mickey Hirten, the editor of the Burlington Free Press when Sanders was Mayor has talked about this, as well.

It's not a surprise.

[Thekaspervote]

207. Bernie is the one playing the dividing game!! He needs to be outed so voters can see him for

Who he really is

[Agschmid]

212. This is just stupid, bad move on her part.

[ehrnst]

229. How is her being honest about her experience working with a candidate

a "stupid" or "bad" move?

It's before the Iowa Caucus. That's the time for endorsements, or otherwise.

And she certainly isn't the first to talk about this aspect of Senator Sanders.

https://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/anger-management-sanders-fights-for-employees-except-his-own/Content?oid=2834657

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

287. Makes ZERO sense! Hillary made a HUGE mistake that could cost us the general election

regardless of who's the nominee.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[ehrnst]

317. You mean like not committing to endorse Bernie if he's the nominee?

NBC’s Kasie Hunt asked Bernie Sanders if he would commit to supporting the Democratic nominee before the convention if it’s clear it won’t be him. Sanders would not make any such commitment.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/bernie-sanders-2016-rigged-wont-pledge-support-winner.html

Or talking about what Bernie is like to work with?

https://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/anger-management-sanders-fights-for-employees-except-his-own/Content?oid=2834657

[Thekaspervote]

386. care to share why telling the truth is a bad move

[Agschmid]

390. At this point I find it divisive, timing could potentially be damaging to the Democratic Party.

[earthside]

214. Would Hillary be rebuked?

If she were a posting member of DU would Hillary have to be sanctioned?

"Don't bash Democratic public figures"

[ehrnst]

223. If candidates were rebuked for that...

Bernie would have been rebuked many times over by now.

[totodeinhere]

246. Hillary is not a candidate anymore. n/t

[ehrnst]

319. But Bernie is.

NBC’s Kasie Hunt asked Bernie Sanders if he would commit to supporting the Democratic nominee before the convention if it’s clear it won’t be him. Sanders would not make any such commitment.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/bernie-sanders-2016-rigged-wont-pledge-support-winner.html

[totodeinhere]

326. Yes, Bernie is a candidate and it's pretty much standard procedure in campaigns

to show confidence in your own inevitable victory. Of course he isn't going to discuss what he will do if he loses because he plants on winning. But if he does not get the nomination he will certainly support the nominee.

[ehrnst]

330. But Bernie wouldn't commit to supporting the Democratic nominee.

NBC’s Kasie Hunt asked Bernie Sanders if he would commit to supporting the Democratic nominee before the convention if it’s clear it won’t be him. Sanders would not make any such commitment.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/bernie-sanders-2016-rigged-wont-pledge-support-winner.html

If you heard he's changed his mind, would you share a link?

[Cha]

315. Would BS?

Link to tweet

[dustyscamp]

215. Really bad take

[ehrnst]

226. It's not just her take.

https://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/anger-management-sanders-fights-for-employees-except-his-own/Content?oid=2834657

[TheFarseer]

217. Bernie fans and Hillary fans

Have close to zero overlap. This will most likely only reinforce the opinion of Bernie fans. Stuff like this will hurt in a general election though. I wonder if she will do 36 campaign rallies for him if he gets the nomination?

[ehrnst]

222. "Zero overlap?" He had better get working on getting her supporters behind him.

He can't win the primary without them.

I think if the DNC provides her a chartered jet, and he smiles while she begins speeches with her primary delegate count total, maybe she'll endorse him by saying "We just can't elect Trump" 32 times as well.

[TheFarseer]

243. I think the plan was

Hold onto the people that voted for him in 2016 and find more people that didn’t vote last time. Then hope the non-Bernie vote gets split up. Remains to be seen if any of that is going to plan.

[TwilightZone]

328. If that was the plan, it's not working.

His support is about half of what it was in the prior cycle, so the first part of that is clearly not working. That makes the rest of it more difficult.

[ehrnst]

339. Poll: Only 42% of those who voted for Bernie in the 2016 Primary selected him as their top choice

in the 2020 Primary.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldurkheimer/2019/04/17/5-weird-items-in-the-new-bernie-buttigieg-poll/#27d64d297ddd

[NurseJackie]

224. Seriously? "Bernie fans" will stay away in the General Election because their fee-fees were hurt?

Seriously? "Bernie fans" will stay away in the General Election because their fee-fees were hurt? If that's what you're arguing, then I have to let you know that it's not a very flattering way to characterize "Bernie fans" if you're suggesting that they'll let their ruffled feathers cause them to NOT support the DEMOCRAT. Wow.

This will most likely only reinforce the opinion of Bernie fans.

That's vague and ambiguous. What does that mean? Are you saying that it will reinforce some opinion held by Bernie fans? Or are you saying that it will reinforce the opinions that others have of Bernie fans?

Stuff like this will hurt in a general election though.

No... what hurts in the General election is when a major and well-known candidate chooses to smear and denigrate the Democratic party.

[ehrnst]

228. So much for "Us, not Me." Those words fell on deaf ears, I suppose. (nt)

[TheFarseer]

234. Point by point

You title - you’re putting words in my mouth. I never said anything close to that and that was certainly not what I was suggesting! “Their fee fees were hurt”? Come on, let’s have an adult conversation, and one where we don’t make up a straw man would be even better.

Your first highlight - reinforce Bernie fans opinions in that they will like Bernie even more.

That’s fair but you never acknowledge it’s a two way street.

[NurseJackie]

251. Oh, come on! I know what you were driving at. I'm not an idiot.

It really doesn't matter if his "fans" like him even more or not. I think what's most important is for everyone to acknowledge that his hardcore fans (as before) will likely sit-out the general election because they've indicated that holding a grudge is more important... their vanity and ego is more important... than doing everything possible to defeat the GOP. Just ask Sarandon and Cusack. Both of them are idiots.

Rather than demanding an "adult conversation" in an effort to squelch my sharp and biting sarcasm... how about instead demanding adult behavior from his "fans" who have proven themselves to be unreliable voters and who seem to share his contempt for the Democratic party. They'll make only the minimal effort to support Democrats or the party. They won't even register as Democrats, but they will be among the loudest complainers when they discover (to their great woefully under-informed shock) that in closed-primary states, they aren't allowed to participate in party activities.

I've often argued that, for our time and GOTV effort, we would be much more successful in getting NEW voters than to waste an inordinate amount of time trying to validate the hurt feelings and egos of his "fans" (who still won't vote anyway, but who'll no doubt enjoy the attention).

That’s fair but you never acknowledge it’s a two way street.

No it's not. The other direction of that "two-way" street heads toward the GOP. You're either with the Democrats or not. If not, then that only serves to benefit the GOP, and Trump and Russia.

[LongtimeAZDem]

327. ...

[TheFarseer]

372. I really don't know how you got that

From what I said. My only point was Bernie supporters are unlikely to be talked out of supporting him in the primary by anything Hillary says. It’s been pretty well documented that Bernie primary voters voted for Trump at a lower rate than Hillary 2008 primary voters voted for McCain but Bernie haters keep ignoring that.

The two way street I’m talking about is many people seem to have no problem with posts shredding Bernie but if he’s the nominee that hurts the party just as much as hammering Biden if he’s the nominee. It’s not like he has no chance at the nomination. I definitely wish this primary was more positive all the way around.

[lapucelle]

402. The quote is from a clip of a documentary on HRC made last year

that's being shown during the Sundance Film Festival (January 23 - February 5).

HRC was asked about her perspective on and opinion of many people. She answered honestly, and she answered last year.

So much for the theory that this is in any way about the upcoming primaries.

*****************************************************************************************************

And by the way, the "rate" of primary defections to either McCain or Trump is immaterial in the light of the data:

Link to tweet

****************************************************************************************************

Link to tweet

***************************************************************************************************

The impact of those votes was significant. In each of the three states that ultimately swung the election for Trump—Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania—Trump's margin of victory over Clinton was smaller than the number of Sanders voters who gave him their vote.

https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-trump-2016-election-654320

[TheFarseer]

404. Ugh, another 2016 fight.

I don’t want to go too far down this road. It’s never productive. Just let me ask - and I’ve never been able to find the number - what percent of 2008 Hillary voters voted McCain, third party or stayed home? Otherwise you’re comparing apples to oranges with your 25%

[lapucelle]

411. You can find the data you've never been able to find here.

https://dataverse.harvard.edu/dataset.xhtml?persistentId=hdl:1902.1/14003

And it's not my 25%. It's the CCES data.

Link to tweet

[LanternWaste]

233. Three specific allegations. Zero evidence to support any of them.

Faith-based politics is so 17th century.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

281. No question Hillary just hurt the Democratic Party's chances in the general election...

And that people are celebrating these comments is equally sad.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[BannonsLiver]

331. How so?

Let's see a detailed explanation of your theory.

[lapucelle]

389. ...

[samir.g]

231. here for the bro-splaining why she should shut up

[ehrnst]

235. Starts here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=436455

[redstatebluegirl]

240. I've always loved Secretary Clinton!

[Demsrule86]

244. I will always love Hillary Clinton...There will never be another like her.

K&R

[totodeinhere]

245. I'm wondering how much of this is sour grapes over the residual effect from the 2016 primary

campaign. And I do wish that she would commit to voting for our eventual nominee whoever that may turn out to be. If I said at DU that I might not vote for our nominee I could get alerted for that.

[Demsrule86]

252. Not the primary which I will not discuss...it is the general. And I will never get over the 2016

General. I do not believe Sanders supported Clinton sufficiently in the General. I just don't. And the remarks he made afterward which you can google, I will not post them here made it worse.

[ehrnst]

311. She said she wouldn't commit to "endorse," not "vote."

Reading something before commenting on it is often helpful.

[ehrnst]

316. Sour grapes about what? She won the primary by a wide margin.

[LiberalLovinLug]

250. This could backfire spectacularily

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/21/politics/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-2020/index.html

Why Hillary Clinton hating on Bernie Sanders is great news for him

"Whoa boy! Tell us how you really feel, Hillary!

This truth-telling by Clinton will draw huge headlines. And that is very, very good news for Bernie Sanders.
Here's why: Sanders is running this 2020 presidential campaign (as he did the 2016 campaign) on a simple premise: the powerful have been sitting comfortably for way too long and it's time to shake things up. Sanders was vilifying the elites and the political establishment (of both parties) long before Donald Trump even started considering running for president. "

I think she'll go down in history with greater credentials and respect if she stops being such a sore winner. If her legacy will end with bringing down Democratic chances, by bad-mouthing Sanders in this personal way, (while he has steadfastly never gone personal with her) it will only look bad on her. And if she and the rest of the third way manage to stop him from winning, we will have lost our best hope at defeating Trump. IMO.

If Sanders does manage to win, despite all the slings and arrows, this behaviour will not age well.

[Quixote1818]

263. Every Bernie supporter I know of Facebook has this article posted. Talk about messing with a Hornets

nest. They are pissed! I am not sure how much it will help Sanders. Maybe a little but come time to vote I think people will be voting almost entirely on who they think can beat Trump. Some think it's Sanders and some think Biden.

[LiberalLovinLug]

268. Yes I agree

It depends if she will drop this now, or if this will be a continuing and organized campaign by the Clintons, Obama, and others, which if Sanders continues his popularity, I fear will happen.

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/8/18253459/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-2020-relitigate-primary

The anti-Bernie Sanders campaign being pushed by former Clinton staffers, explained

Former Hillary Clinton aides really want Bernie Sanders to get the Clinton treatment.


Sounds like they will risk making the divisions even deeper just out of spite.

[ehrnst]

342. Was this also part of "a continuing and organized campaign by the Clintons, Obama, and others"

My God, do they have a time machine?

https://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/anger-management-sanders-fights-for-employees-except-his-own/Content?oid=2834657

Barney Frank talked about it years ago as well about their time in Congress.

Mickey Hirten, editor of the Burlington Free Press when Bernie was mayor has also talked about this.

[lapucelle]

394. The Sundance Film Festival is part of a continuing and organized campaign by "the Clintons"

and "Obama"?

Who knew!


*******************************************************************************************************



https://www.sundance.org/projects/hillary

[ehrnst]

419. My GOD, the Clintons have tentacles EVERYWHERE!

[lapucelle]

392. Drop what now? The quote is from a documentary about HRC

that's being shown at the Sundance Film Festival.

The festival runs from January 23 through February 5.

"The Clintons" and "Obama" have nothing to do with the scheduling of the film festival.

[ehrnst]

310. It's not like she's the first to talk about this aspect of Sanders.

https://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/anger-management-sanders-fights-for-employees-except-his-own/Content?oid=2834657

Barney Frank talked about it years ago as well about their time in Congress.

Mickey Hirten, editor of the Burlington Free Press when Bernie was mayor has also talked about this.

So it's not news.

[Retrograde]

369. How? Is Clinton planning on running for office again? (n/t)

[Cha]

477. Or.. it could "backfire" on the

person Hillary is telling the truth about.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

278. OUCHHHHHHH!!! Unfortunately, divisive comments like those made by Hillary about Bernie

will only help re-elect tRumpy the Clown!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[ehrnst]

297. Divisive? You mean like not committing to supporting Bernie if he gets the nomination???

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/bernie-sanders-2016-rigged-wont-pledge-support-winner.html

BOOM!

[BuffaloJackalope]

265. If you think that's what happened in 2016, then you haven't been paying attention.

[Kentonio]

267. That's exactly what happened in 2016

It’s also what many of us warned was likely to happen going right back to 2015, but no she was the shoe-in for the presidency who we were told couldn’t lose. While Bernie wasn’t ‘electable’ enough. Ok then..

[ehrnst]

283. She won the nomination by a large margin, didn't she?

Then she got more votes in the general than any POTUS candiate not named Obama.

[ehrnst]

325. So why would she have "sour grapes" towards Sanders? Makes no sense.

Last edited Tue Jan 21, 2020, 05:50 PM - Edit history (1)

She beat him in the primaries by a wide margin as the clear choice of Democratic voters.

Then she proceeded to get more votes than any POTUS candidate not named Obama, despite Russian interference, voter suppression of Democrats, misogyny on the left and right and the statistical improbability of a party holding the WH for more than two consecutive terms (hence so few candidates).

But do kid yourself that wasn't badass, if it makes you feel better. Sounds a bit like "sour grapes" as you so eloquently put it.

FYI: One must win a primary in order to participate in, let alone win, the general.

[BuffaloJackalope]

355. I'm guessing Post Removed couldn't handle a few actual facts.

[Cha]

284. NO.. you could NOT be More WRONG, kentonio.. you

need to study up on some history.

[ehrnst]

309. Looks like you were right.

[Cha]

312. ...

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

291. Riiiiiiiiiiight!! Nailed that one!!

Last edited Tue Jan 21, 2020, 04:44 PM - Edit history (1)

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[ehrnst]

302. .......

BOOM!!!!

[BuffaloJackalope]

264. Pretty much

[BootinUp]

286. Right again. Nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

299. K&R

[Cuthbert Allgood]

303. Vote blue no matter who

unless it's Sanders, I guess.

She's not helping.

[ehrnst]

308. Tell that to Bernie...

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/bernie-sanders-2016-rigged-wont-pledge-support-winner.html

[Cuthbert Allgood]

320. He did support her. Well.

He actually came to Wisconsin. He pushed hard for her.

And we do know that the DNC did sketchy shit in regard to Sanders.

And his supporters voted for Clinton at a higher percentage than Clinton supporters did for Obama.

[ehrnst]

323. Did you read the article? He would not commit to supporting the

Democratic nominee if it wasn't him.

NBC’s Kasie Hunt asked Bernie Sanders if he would commit to supporting the Democratic nominee before the convention if it’s clear it won’t be him. Sanders would not make any such commitment.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/bernie-sanders-2016-rigged-wont-pledge-support-winner.html

You're welcome.

What "DNC sketchy shit in regard to Sanders" are you talking about?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

313. Hillary needs to retract her divisive statements ASAP... I hope she does the right thing.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[ehrnst]

314. After Bernie does the same...

NBC’s Kasie Hunt asked Bernie Sanders if he would commit to supporting the Democratic nominee before the convention if it’s clear it won’t be him. Sanders would not make any such commitment.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/bernie-sanders-2016-rigged-wont-pledge-support-winner.html

[George II]

337. She has no divisive statements to retract.

[YOHABLO]

359. They're either patting each other on the back, or stabbing each other in the back.

[ehrnst]

380. Not seeing that on both sides. (nt)

[lapucelle]

401. The quote is from a documentary on HRC

being shown at the Sundance Film Festival which runs from January 23 through February 5.

Maybe you could call the film's editor and tell her *she needs* to cut it from the film.

********************************************************************************************************




https://www.sundance.org/projects/hillary



*******************************************************************************************************

[GumboYaYa]

324. I think she means no one from the DLC branch of the Democratic party likes Bernie.

Hillary is no voice of the people and never has been. She speaks for the powerful moneyed interest in the party and of course they don't like Bernie.

[BannonsLiver]

333. Aww insn't that lovely.

[ehrnst]

336. Got any evidence to back those accusations up?

I won't hold my breath...

You see, she was the choice of Democrats to be their voice as nominee by a WIDE margin.



And some reading for you about the moneyed....

April 15, 2015

“I am one of the exceptions," he said. "I am not going to start a super PAC. I’m not going to go around the country talking to millionaires. Now I'm saving my time because they wouldn't give me any money anyhow and that's fine."

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/senator-bernie-sanders-calls-hillary-clinton-foundation-money/story?id=30687863

October 14, 2015

Mr. Sanders was cheered at a fancy campaign fund-raiser at the Hollywood home of Syd Leibovitch, a high-end real estate agent, and his wife, Linda, on Wednesday night.

Tickets for the event sold for a minimum of $250. Those who spent the maximum, $2,700, or who raised $10,000, were invited to a “pre-event reception,” according to the invitation.

The 14 co-hosts included Cindy Asner, the former wife of the actor Ed Asner, the actress Mimi Kennedy, and Benjamin W. Decker, whose website notes that he was once called the “legendary Hollywood P.R. maven” by Forbes magazine, and used to produce “celebrity-driven red-carpet movie premieres.”
...........................................
It was the ninth such event of his campaign, his aides said, according to the pool report.
................................

As Mr. Sanders began speaking to the guests, he joked that the Leibovitch house was a “proletariat” home, and told them, “The truth is there are many people in this country who have money but also believe in social justice.”

https://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/10/15/bernie-sanders-has-fund-raiser-at-fancy-hollywood-home/

[yardwork]

340. In context, it's clear she meant that nobody in Congress would work with Bernie.

Despite decades in the Senate, he's never won passage of a single bill except naming some post offices.

That's a pathetic record for somebody who aspires to be president. How can he achieve his ambitious promises if he doesn't know how to get Congress to support his ideas?

Bernie is running for President, not dictator. He can't achieve his goals without Congress.

[wyldwolf]

354. wow! I wonder how many 'alerts' this got. LOL

That ol' gang alerting doesn't work as well as it did in 2016.

[emmaverybo]

379. Is it from an RW source? Simply a post that presents a powerful, popular, and highly accomplished

former Secretary of State’s viewpoint, not published in an RW source, by the way. Many Op-Ed’s
have been posted on DU highly critical of various candidates. What TOS rule does this post violate?

[wyldwolf]

412. of course not, why do you ask?

I was referring to the massive amount of posts that were hidden by jury in 2016 that were critical of Sanders, regardless of the source.

[emmaverybo]

457. Misunderstood. Apologies. Did not know that history and did not understand your reference.

[Gore1FL]

358. If she posted her comments on DU they would have been hidden by a competent jury. nt

[ehrnst]

382. And Bernie?

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/bernie-sanders-2016-rigged-wont-pledge-support-winner.html

[rzemanfl]

361. Bookmarking. Watch for PM. n/t

[tiredtoo]

366. Vengeance is mine saith the Lord. Romans 12:19 EOM

[Hav]

367. Brilliant as usual from Hillary

She's absolutely right. Even if Bernie touches several issues that I agree with, he's a career politician pretending to be the fighter against the "establishment". Decades in Congress with barely anything achieved because of his inability to work with others. How is he supposed to be an effective President?
Baloney is the right reaction to his shtick and people who fall for that need to snap out of it.

[myohmy2]

370. that's horrible...

...it looks like Hillary is trying to put her thumb on the scale of this primary season...

...why now, Hillary?

...and to think I voted for you...

[ehrnst]

381. ...that's nonsense...

...HRC has stated she will support the eventual nominee...

...when will Bernie?...



...speaking of "thumbs on scales"...

....

...HRC understands that honesty is always the best policy, no matter how hard it may be for people to hear...

...She'll always be the people's POTUS...

[Cha]

395. Dpon't be ridiculous.. Hillary answered the

question honestly.

[Progressive dog]

373. Yea Hillary

[ecstatic]

398. Harsh but true. A career politician who supported the NRA

among other things. My issue is that he's simply not qualified. When I listen to him, he says some good things, but I don't see an organized and efficient person who can get things done. Judging from old videos, it looks like he was scattered and disorganized 40 years ago, and now he's 40 years older and just had a heart attack. Not good.

I want to believe him when he says that all he has to do is organize and everything will take care of itself. I'm just really, really skeptical.

[Gothmog]

399. Clinton say she has grown worried that attacks from sanders' campaign could hurt the future Democrat

Link to tweet

[ArtTownsend]

407. Let's hope the future Democratic nominee is Sanders.

[Gothmog]

409. Why do you want 4 more years of trump?

If sanders is the nominee, trump will win 45+ states

[Gothmog]

460. Why did sanders call for cuts to social security?

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[ArtTownsend]

406. The irony of Hillary Clinton saying "nobody likes" a person...

[Gothmog]

410. There are a large number real members of the Democratic Party who love and respect her

I will support the nominee of the party. Without support of the real Democrats who supported Hillary Clinton, I doubt that sanders will be the nominee. There are simply too many real Democrats who have good memories and who will not forgive or forget

[betsuni]

414. Why?

She was well liked by colleagues who actually knew and worked with her, not people who fell for bullshit fictional Hillary propaganda.

[ehrnst]

416. Keep telling yourself that, but....

It's quite clear that Hillary is very well liked and deeply respected by the vast majority of progressives who have worked directly with her, and not just people who have never been closer than 50 feet away from her.

All of the female Democratic senators signed a secret letter to Hillary Rodham Clinton early this year encouraging her to run for president in 2016 - a letter that includes the signature of Sen. Elizabeth Warren and other senators who are mentioned as potential candidates, two high-ranking Democratic Senate aides told ABC News.

List of Hillary Clinton 2016 presidential campaign non-political endorsements

List of Hillary Clinton 2016 presidential campaign political endorsements

Mothers of the Movement group campaigns for Hillary Clinton in West Phila.

Granted, there are those, especially young men, who are reminded of their mother when they hear her, and can't get past that irritation, but Hillary is clearly very much liked and admired by people that she's never worked with as well.

Gallup poll's most admired woman in the for world 22 years.

The high mark for most appearances at number 1, the most admired woman in the world, belongs to Hillary Clinton

One might say that she's loved by many people:

Katy Perry was the night’s big honoree, but [link:Besides... she's certainly not the first to make this observation.|Hillary Clinton got the biggest ovation] as the former presidential candidate presented the pop star with an award from UNICEF at Tuesday’s Snowflake Ball.

Hillary has lit that voice inside of me, and that light will never go out!” she shouted.

“It will get brighter and brighter and brighter. Thank you, Hillary. You motivate me and so many millions of people who appreciate you for your incredible work,” Perry said as the crowd gave Clinton another ovation.

The former Democratic presidential candidate received a standing ovation at the magazine's annual event.

Former Senator Hillary Clinton honored at Martin and Coretta King Unity Breakfast

Besides... she's certainly not the first to make this observation about Senator Sanders.

[ehrnst]

418. The irony of getting mad about someone else saying Bernie isn't concerned with being "nice"

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

440. sanders has encouraged the culture around him

Link to tweet

[R B Garr]

452. This thread shows the tone deaf assumptions that

Sanders’ supporters are owed something from other Democrats.

Looks like it’s never occurred to them that Clinton supporters are the ones who are owed something. I haven’t seen Bernie hold his powder about offending others. It’s his turn to be circumspect and polite so others aren’t alienated.

[samnsara]

451. bs in an interview said as much about him as HRC did.. he said he doesnt wish Happy Birthday..

..or any such niceties. Hes admitted hes a bit of a social isolate. HRC only said out loud what the rest of us suspected.

[chouchou]

456. Hillary go away

Why is Hillary still on any stage? She should go away. So over her. She should not be prime time news. Waste of discussion. She should take her bitterness into reclusive retirement.

[Demsrule86]

470. Why are you here is a better question?

Whatever, enjoy your stay.

[chouchou]

479. Why am I here?

I am a Democrat and I am for Bernie Sanders. I can be here because any Democrat can be here. I claim to be an independent only because I am waiting to see of the DNC will be fair to all candidates. Chicago Tribune this week: John Kass
"Bernie Sanders is a survivor, but can he survive the orchestrated media onslaught that seems determined to bring him down?"

[Blue_Tires]

459. kick

just because it pisses off the right people

[Gothmog]

461. Why did sanders call for cuts to social security?

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

478. The attacks by sanders supporters on. This man confirms Hillary's position

Link to tweet

?s=20

[Gothmog]

480. sanders' comments on George Wallace is further evidence that Hillary was correct

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet