How Negative Is Sanders Willing to Go?

[Gothmog]

Link to tweet

F

or example, the Sanders campaign sent out an edited transcript of something Biden said about Social Security, claiming that he agreed with former Republican Speaker Paul Ryan. Politifact rated that statement false. Here is the part of the speech they left out.
Now, I don’t know a whole lot of people in the top one-tenth of 1 percent or the top 1 percent who are relying on Social Security when they retire. I don’t know a lot of them. Maybe you guys do. So we need a pro-growth, progressive tax code that treats workers as job creators, as well, not just investors; that gets rid of unprotective loopholes like stepped-up basis; and it raises enough revenue to make sure that the Social Security and Medicare can stay, it still needs adjustments, but can stay; and pay for the things we all acknowledge will grow the country.

Since the campaign got caught in that lie, Sanders supporters have attempted to claim that Biden has been advocating for cutting Social Security for 40 years. As is often the case with disinformation, that is based on a half-truth. To solve a budget impasse in 1995, Biden supported a freeze on all federal spending, including cost of living adjustments to Social Security. Then there was his support for an Obama proposal to change the way cost of living increases were calculated, including both the income tax tables and Social Security. But the Sanders campaign turned those positions into an accusation that Biden attempted to “slash Social Security.”
An honest look at the totality of Biden’s position on Social Security would come from listening to Jared Bernstein, a progressive economist who served as an advisor to the former vice president.

Link to tweet

.....Some of us spoke up when Sanders hired David Sirota because his modus operandi was obvious to anyone who knew his history. Sirota has a reputation of being a ruthless attack dog. The campaign had to know that when they hired him. But now it seems that Sirota went too far with his attacks and his boss has been forced to apologize.

It is clear that the Sanders campaign will rely on attacks against his opponents. But this latest incident demonstrates that they are still struggling with where the boundaries are for those negative attacks. It is good to know that, at least for the candidate himself, accusing Biden of being corrupt is outside the boundary.

[BannonsLiver]

1. Just wait until the primary losses start piling up.

We haven’t seen anything yet.

[George II]

15. The way it looks now, there will be four losses for that candidate before Super Tuesday, when.....

....that candidate will be crushed.

And then the snowball starts to pick up Joementum:

[stopdiggin]

29. that dude REALLY thinks he's gonna' catch that thing? (nt)

[stopdiggin]

28. Curious that this OP and string run well AFTER

Sander has issued a (personal) apology for the article referenced. Maybe everyone could heed the bell and return to their corners for a short break?

[BannonsLiver]

30. Then he doubled down in a tweet tonight

And his surrogates have not backed off at all. It’s a false detente.

[stopdiggin]

31. I think you're probably right.

wishful thinkin' on my part no doubt.
I generally try for an even handed middle ground. Sometimes that's just not available. Sadly.

[Hortensis]

41. WE will see them, they'll deny them. :)

Most are still denying the voters said no in that 2016 pileup.

[LongtimeAZDem]

2. I'm looking forward to Bloomberg taking Bernie to task; imagine the ads

[Hortensis]

42. :) He's doing good ads, all right. But I think he would only if

Sanders became a real threat to our chances of defeating the Republicans in the GE. Now you've got me wishing we could see the ads, though. Sanders provides incredible material that's all true.

[LongtimeAZDem]

59. Aaaaaand, here they are; took less than a month:

Link to tweet

[emmaverybo]

3. Biden has vowed to protect Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid way back in his campaigning,

His plan for older Americans is strong. We know his position as he has consistently made it known.
Danders is engaging in misrepresentation and distortion. Sad.

[NanceGreggs]

4. I absolutely loathe Bernie Sanders.

If he wound up as the Democratic nominee, I would cast my ballot in November as a vote against Trump rather than a vote for Bernie.

It would be my last vote as a Democrat. I would leave the party and register as Independent - the same way Republicans who knew who Trump was should have left their party the minute he was declared their nominee.

[Thekaspervote]

6. Agree with your distaste for sanders. I admire your willingness to leave the dem party

And go independent

[NanceGreggs]

17. I'd only leave the party ...

... if I saw it nominating an anti-Democrat who has used the party's platform and funds to advance his own political career.

Bernie is a self-serving sycophant who runs "as a Democrat" while demeaning the party at every opportunity.

I don't see a lot of difference between Bernie and Trump - both glomming onto the ticket of a party they neither support nor believe in.

Fortunately, there are enough Democrats who see Bernie for what he is - and will vote accordingly.

[empedocles]

36. Agree on the BS character problem. Fear that BS is a 3rd Party threat - given his character.

[BannonsLiver]

7. That's an interesting perspective

And one I hadn’t previously thought of, the part about leaving the party. Thought provoking and I tend to agree with your view.

[squirecam]

12. I would vote for him

But not leave the party. I’d fight him and AOC and anyone else attacking Dems every single day.

[Cha]

24. I hear ya.. way

out here in the middle of nowhere!

[RandiFan1290]

33. LOL I LOVE THIS!!!!

[Hortensis]

39. Agree, but I wouldn't give the Repub-Russia-anti-Democrats

the victory of leaving the Party. Only if those who preferred Sanders' ideology and character became a majority or somehow got control. That is literally impossible, of course.

But in that alternate universe, ultimately many tens of millions of people like us would form a new, great liberal party, leaving the dissident minority to finish destroying the remnants we left behind.

After all, that's what happened when uneducated frontier conservatives swarmed into and took over our original liberal Democratic-Republican Party. The liberals left, and it spent the rest of the 19th century almost moribund, without power or notice, until liberals took it back over for the 20th century.

They can't understand that, because they're like Sanders in not being able to understand and accept that they're a dissident faction and that the majority also have principles and qualities -- and almost above all, capabilities -- that he and they don't share.

[comradebillyboy]

48. Bravo Nancy! I share your sentiments about bernie.

[JoeOtterbein]

5. Did Biden really do this, or not? From the above:

To solve a budget impasse in 1995, Biden supported a freeze on all federal spending, including cost of living adjustments to Social Security. Then there was his support for an Obama proposal to change the way cost of living increases were calculated, including both the income tax tables and Social Security.

Did Biden support freezing Social Security, or not???

[TomCADem]

10. I Guess By Your Logic, Bernie Is Pro-Gun, Anti-Immigrant, Pro-Russia and Pro-F-35

Thank you. You cite to Joe Biden trying to reach a compromise on a budget. We can cite to Bernie without needing to compromise selling out to Russia (Election Sanctions/Magnitsky Act), the NRA (Brady Act and Gun Maker Immunity) and Anti-Immigrant Racists (votes against 2007 immigration reform and repeatedly complaining about open borders).

[Thekaspervote]

18. Add to that list his vote against CHIP. Children's Health Insurance Program

[Skya Rhen]

25. And Amber Alert.

[Hortensis]

43. Don't forget the school lunch program!

Joe's been working with his Republican friends to bring back scurvy and rickets.

[pfeiffer]

11. Overheard somewhere:

Bernie, "Aha Joe, see, yes you DID support freezing Social Security benefits."

Joe, "C'mon, Bernie! Stop the dishonesty. I didn't support cuts to Social Security! Cut the crap. I supported freezing cost of living adjustments on Social Security back in 1995 in order to avoid a government shutdown and federal workers not having food on the table for their families!"

[PatSeg]

16. Well done!

Short and to the point.

[Thekaspervote]

19. Thank you!! Therein lies the truth of it

[Hortensis]

37. Thanks for posting Sanders' deceit and Joe's truth.

[George II]

13. Why ask that, isn't the issue "cutting" Social Security? Back when Obama was considering...

....a proposal to change the way cost of living increases were calculated (why not use the derogatory term "chained COLA"?), I did the math. His proposal would have resulted in a LARGER increase than the way those increases were calculated! FACTS!!!! Show me different, please.

If Biden supported freezing Social Security, why is the Sanders campaign and ALL their higher staffers and surrogates claiming that he supported CUTTING Social Security?

I'm on Social Security, as is my wife. We depend on it for our income. We don't see it the way millionaire Sanders and all his high-salary staffers see it. We're in the trenches of protecting our income, they're not.

Please, stop the misinformation and false attacks on our Democratic candidate.

[JoeOtterbein]

21. Please answer my questions before attacking ME! ntn

[George II]

22. Sorry, I did answer the question, you're just not satisfied with the (true) answers.

[Butterflylady]

55. That's their answer when they can't answer the question put to them

😆

[Hortensis]

38. I notice your daughter is somewhat restrained in her coverage

compared to your all-in/all-against commitment, even though she's also clearly supporting Sanders. Wondering if you're something of a free-speaking surrogate or speak only for yourself.

This morning's latest:

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[NBachers]

26. Why don't you fucking attack the motherfukkking republikkkans who were holding up the budget

and forcing the Obama Administration to go to extreme lengths to keep our government running?

[stopdiggin]

27. com'on

You've been around long enough not to fall for this stuff. We're (you're) better than this.

[The Valley Below]

8. I think there are no limits.

He's adopting Scorched Earth 2.0.

[Skittles]

9. just watch

[democratisphere]

14. Bottomless.

[oasis]

20. Just imagine how bad it would be if he hadn't taken "the pledge".

[Scurrilous]

32. LOL

Or gone second.

Bernie Sanders First to Sign Pledge to Rally Behind Democratic Nominee

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128789658

[Quixote1818]

23. Hopefully he won't release a photo of Obama in a turban like someone did a number of years back

https://www.politico.com/story/2008/02/obama-slams-smear-photo-008667

[Cha]

35. Too bad BS campaign does this...

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

FALSE!

Link to tweet

[Autumn]

54. Yeah, that was really low. I think that was the lowest I have ever seen.

[LanternWaste]

56. I'd pretend she's relevant to the current campaign too.

But then I'd have to give the same relevance to the absurdist slings and arrows of irony which targeted Planned Parenthood simply for endorsing her. Jeez... that was quite the temper tantrum.

[hlthe2b]

34. I just wish it would stop on all sides. As if fearing Trump prevailing were not bad enough....

It is as ludicrous as if our troops had fought each other over past grievances on the amphibious landing craft as they approached Normandy.

[Hortensis]

44. Sure. Nice wish. But might as well wish dirty campaigners

would stop lying and would never dream of sabotaging the invasion they claimed to be part of. Not going to happen.

And this IS about defeating Trump and electing Democrats.

Do you realize that millions believed Sanders' lies all through 2015-2016 and either didn't vote because of them (we'll never know how many millions of those) or voted third party? MOST of them still believe, still spout the lies, and are still angry at the Democratic Party, this while Sanders strives every day to add more to their numbers.

And how about the 12% of his primary supporters who voted for Trump? Yes, they were never ours, but they used him and he used them in mutual attack against Hillary. Well, guess what? They're back to wrack up another victory.

[hlthe2b]

46. No. The campaign staff (of multiple candidates) launching lie campaigns is not about defeating Trump

Quite the opposite. And Trump's campaign is absolutely LOVING IT.

[Hortensis]

47. No to false comparisons, BIG no, and to pretending

posts that draw false comparisons of honorable candidates with dishonorable aren't part of what they claim to deplore.

[hlthe2b]

49. First of all, I did not include your chosen candidate. Why would YOU?

But, Sander's campaign is not the only one launching these attacks. They are NOT helpful.

But, surely in defending your own candidate, you shouldn't accept the blame that belongs to OTHERS, should you? Perhaps you are confused, but that is exactly what you are doing. It is rather inexplicable.

[Hortensis]

50. In fact, you included ALL of them in this scurrilous insult.

Only ONE main candidate has displayed a strong pattern of ruthless dishonesty toward the others.

He stands exposed, completely alone.

[hlthe2b]

51. Wow. So to YOU, asking for civility and focus on our true opponent, Trump is a "scurrilous insult?"

REALLY? Because that is the philosophy your own candidate, Biden has followed during this campaign, despite the criticism that has earned him from some.

I hope you can take a little break for some R&R. The perspective would surely be helpful and healthy.

[Billsmile]

40. Politifact Wrong About the Biden/Paul Ryan Quote

Biden DID laud Paul Ryan for proposing the cuts. Here's a quote from Biden from a talk given to The Brookings Institution in 2018:

'"Paul Ryan was correct when he did the tax code. What’s the first thing he decided we had to go after? Social Security and Medicare. Now, we need to do something about Social Security and Medicare. That’s the only way you can find room to pay for it."'

Here's a transcript of Biden's presentation:

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/biden-transcript.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0BiycmKWHSvuZHKkzLL-5CNDeSB6iH789coMW_g6qXRsr6phMC4OVFwYU

[Hortensis]

45. No. Politifact's conclusion that Sanders lied is correct.

[NYMinute]

52. When pie-in-the-sky free stuff doesn't work

all he has is negative campaigning and he plays "dirty" according to two former Vermont governors.

[samnsara]

53. ....sometimes i wonder which side those surrogates are really working for..

..they talk act and campaign like that 'other' person who shall remain nameless...I have always suspected the campaign is full of agitators who could care less about BS and more about you know who. Time for a bit of house cleaning?

[Gothmog]

57. Does sanders and his staff of liars get tired of being exposed as liars?

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

58. Why did sanders call for cuts to social security?

Link to tweet

Link to tweet