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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
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Hillary Clinton follows up... (Original Post) brooklynite Jan 2020 OP
This message was self-deleted by its author RandiFan1290 Jan 2020 #1
Not bad for back-pedaling... I commend Hillary for that. InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #3
No, just the same old double standard which only seems to apply to HRC. BuffaloJackalope Jan 2020 #46
I see no backpedaling. ismnotwasm Jan 2020 #72
Sure sounds like backpeddling LiberalLovinLug Jan 2020 #73
Hillary has a sophisticated and dry wit ismnotwasm Jan 2020 #74
I'm glad you find it funny LiberalLovinLug Jan 2020 #75
False. She never stated that she would not commit to vote Democratic in the 2020 election. ehrnst Jan 2020 #76
Look I'm not going to get into it with you LiberalLovinLug Jan 2020 #83
It's right there.... ehrnst Jan 2020 #85
I can admit when I've made a mistake. LiberalLovinLug Jan 2020 #87
She stated that she would endorse the winner. You are fixated on a misrepresentation of what ehrnst Jan 2020 #89
I find it funny Bev54 Jan 2020 #82
Post removed Post removed Jan 2020 #90
Starting "endorsements" with a recitation of how many pledged delegates he got... ehrnst Jan 2020 #92
There are those who are blinded by hate. ehrnst Jan 2020 #77
You mean like when Sanders waited months after he declared he would support the nominee months after ehrnst Jan 2020 #97
NO it does NOT sound like Cha Jan 2020 #98
HRC never said "she will not commit to voting Democratic". lapucelle Jan 2020 #108
Wrong. Cha Jan 2020 #105
Someone needs to tell Hillary that she's no longer relevent. brutus smith Jan 2020 #2
Just wish Hillary hadn't said what she said... sure didn't help!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #4
There is no genie and there is no bottle. StevieM Jan 2020 #78
You mean like when Bernie refused to commit to endorsing the Dem candidate if it wasn't him? ehrnst Jan 2020 #94
Another attempt to legitimize TuRdump? She didn't lose. She won by over 3 million votes. MrsCoffee Jan 2020 #5
Thank you. You voiced my take on this post! pazzyanne Jan 2020 #6
She did lose. Why is she spouting off now? brutus smith Jan 2020 #7
The fucker who was just impeached committed treason to keep her out of office. MrsCoffee Jan 2020 #9
Thank you! Pacifist Patriot Jan 2020 #58
+1000. ehrnst Jan 2020 #95
Well boo hoo BannonsLiver Jan 2020 #11
"Why is she spouting off now?" Hav Jan 2020 #12
+1 K&R onetexan Jan 2020 #63
"Spouting off" ehrnst Jan 2020 #81
Post removed Post removed Jan 2020 #14
She said what we know is true. SharonAnn Jan 2020 #21
She lost because of people like David Sirota and Brianha Joy Gray who encouraged enough people NOT still_one Jan 2020 #26
You can't assume that every Jill Stein voter would have voted for HRC... thesquanderer Jan 2020 #40
Agree brutus smith Jan 2020 #41
True, not every Jill Stein voter would have voted for Clinton, however, there were enough who were still_one Jan 2020 #54
compared to obama she lost 10 % of the black vote questionseverything Jan 2020 #91
THIS. BlueWI Jan 2020 #106
in detroit 40,000 undervotes in the pres race questionseverything Jan 2020 #118
While Hillary won more white female voters than Obama both in 2008 and 2012, which also gets ignored ehrnst Jan 2020 #117
only backlash was from.. getagrip_already Jan 2020 #27
She said this over a year ago. And she didn't say anything that hadn't been said for years. ehrnst Jan 2020 #33
BS' book "Our Revolution" has a lot of 'spouting off,' about HRC, and he lost ehrnst Jan 2020 #68
Yes, Bernie directs his comments at the "Democratic establishment" instead of Trump ehrnst Jan 2020 #86
You are being a troll. Clinton can say anything she wants . Russia and others are to blame rockfordfile Jan 2020 #103
It's a quote from the documentary about HRC premiering at the Sundance Film Festival lapucelle Jan 2020 #109
There is a reason Putin hates her-America's human rights champion delisen Jan 2020 #8
She lost to trump. nt RandiFan1290 Jan 2020 #13
So you believe the impeached one was legitimately elected? MrsCoffee Jan 2020 #15
Moreover, they were likely tickled pink when it happened. Over the moon. BannonsLiver Jan 2020 #16
It also ignores the FACT that 11 days before the GE Comey released the letter to the republicans in still_one Jan 2020 #30
Yes, he won the election RandiFan1290 Jan 2020 #56
Only because of Russian interference lees1975 Jan 2020 #22
Russian interference and Comey played a role NCProgressive Jan 2020 #50
Beating him by 3 million votes... more than any POTUS candidate not named Obama. ehrnst Jan 2020 #23
Bros don't seem to get it NCProgressive Jan 2020 #48
It serves a particular narrative to insist that she "did badly" or was a "weak candidate." ehrnst Jan 2020 #51
Well, we all know that Bernie is the only good candidate NCProgressive Jan 2020 #59
Because REASONS!!! ehrnst Jan 2020 #60
++++ NCProgressive Jan 2020 #47
Yep. nt RandiFan1290 Jan 2020 #10
She would never listen. Nanjeanne Jan 2020 #18
WRONG - Hillary didn't lose, she got 3 million more counted votes. lark Jan 2020 #24
LOL, she's relevant enough that you commented on this post. MH1 Jan 2020 #36
Not really. brutus smith Jan 2020 #43
Then how come someone is making a film about her life? treestar Jan 2020 #62
She is very relevant ismnotwasm Jan 2020 #71
Someone needs to tell you that Hillary is Most "Relevant". Cha Jan 2020 #79
HRC is angling to be drafted at the convention as the Democratic Party candidate for POTUS PufPuf23 Jan 2020 #84
NO Hillary is NOT. Cha Jan 2020 #96
You cannot say that for certain. PufPuf23 Jan 2020 #100
you can't say it. Cha Jan 2020 #101
All I am saying is HRC is positioned for it PufPuf23 Jan 2020 #102
Hillary kicked Trump's ass from one end of the country to the other. StevieM Jan 2020 #80
Damn, there is so much salt in this thread Hav Jan 2020 #17
So what's your reasoning for her making her thoughts public? brutus smith Jan 2020 #44
My understanding is that this was part of a documentary Hav Jan 2020 #52
She answered a question in an interview, and it is in a documentary being released. (nt) ehrnst Jan 2020 #66
That's not an apology, and Bernie deserves one from her. (eom) Malmsy Jan 2020 #19
She has nothing to apologize to him for LongtimeAZDem Jan 2020 #20
LOL, him first! lark Jan 2020 #25
Ummh - DURHAM D Jan 2020 #31
For saying she was unqualified? Hillary owes less than ZERO to Bernie. MrsCoffee Jan 2020 #34
With your reasoning it must be payback time? brutus smith Jan 2020 #45
Yes LongtimeAZDem Jan 2020 #49
the bots are strong with this thread, they are n/t getagrip_already Jan 2020 #28
Ty prav (You are correct) DURHAM D Jan 2020 #32
Hillary is only a person with an opinion right now. Eyeball_Kid Jan 2020 #29
Only the most qualified person to ever run for President. MrsCoffee Jan 2020 #35
So "warning Americans" is to trash Bernie? brutus smith Jan 2020 #39
And why was it the VP's personal responsibility to prevent election interference? ehrnst Jan 2020 #70
Where does the "buck" stop? brutus smith Jan 2020 #110
You didn't answer the question. What was the specific responsibility of Obama and Biden ehrnst Jan 2020 #111
Since you're not capable of searching for that yourself brutus smith Jan 2020 #113
I suppose you didn't read the part that contradicts what you said about Biden? ehrnst Jan 2020 #114
They didn't need a bipartisan statement. brutus smith Jan 2020 #115
Folding when you have nothing in your hand is wise. ehrnst Jan 2020 #116
that is the part that gets me..it's like who was in charge when this theft was happening? questionseverything Jan 2020 #93
What gets me is why no one who is saying this has any answers ehrnst Jan 2020 #112
Won...lost...forty percent of the electorate didn't bother to show up to vote in 2016 pecosbob Jan 2020 #37
It was a better turnout than 1996, 2000, and 2012. ehrnst Jan 2020 #67
I like the new... Mike Nelson Jan 2020 #38
I stand with HRC and the Democratic Party. The Valley Below Jan 2020 #42
Ditto! K&R onetexan Jan 2020 #64
I absolutly love Hillary's authentic, unvarnished views! comradebillyboy Jan 2020 #53
I love Hillary, long time supporter. cwydro Jan 2020 #57
Democrats have been walking on eggshells around Bernie for the last comradebillyboy Jan 2020 #61
+1 Blue_Tires Jan 2020 #55
Go Hillary go!! NCProgressive Jan 2020 #65
Hillary has always been straight with us. No reason to doubt her now. (nt) ehrnst Jan 2020 #69
Its OK Hillary. We always knew the real you. aikoaiko Jan 2020 #88
YES, Hillary the TEAM PLAYER! Cha Jan 2020 #99
It's important to know the "real" person behind any candidate's lapucelle Jan 2020 #107
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2020 #104

Response to brooklynite (Original post)

 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
3. Not bad for back-pedaling... I commend Hillary for that.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 08:18 AM
Jan 2020

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

BuffaloJackalope

(818 posts)
46. No, just the same old double standard which only seems to apply to HRC.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 12:13 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ismnotwasm

(41,967 posts)
72. I see no backpedaling.
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 04:00 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LiberalLovinLug

(14,165 posts)
73. Sure sounds like backpeddling
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 04:41 PM
Jan 2020

Asked if she'd support the eventual winner, if it is Sanders: "I'm not going to go there yet."

She claimed that she had finally spoken the unvarnished truth. And chided those she said had criticized her in the past for not doing so. She still resents him, does not like the man, and will not commit to voting Democratic if he wins. (No matter that he endorsed and joined her in 39 rallies after the last DNC.)

The next day: "as I always have, I will do whatever I can to support our nominee."

The real question is, if the first one was the one she claimed was the "unvarnished truth", how can her follow up be that as well?


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ismnotwasm

(41,967 posts)
74. Hillary has a sophisticated and dry wit
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 04:44 PM
Jan 2020

That wasn’t backpedaling, especially given the context of the original statement. People crack me up.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LiberalLovinLug

(14,165 posts)
75. I'm glad you find it funny
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 05:21 PM
Jan 2020

That our former Presidential candidate says that not committing to vote Democratic in November is the "unvarnished truth"

And that you find it humorous that some might be uncomfortable with that. Based on the fact that she still has a lot of sway with a lot of Democratic voters (and ex-voters if Sanders wins?). Even with her scrambled knee-jerk response after getting criticism from fellow Democrats.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
76. False. She never stated that she would not commit to vote Democratic in the 2020 election.
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 05:25 PM
Jan 2020

Nor did she even state that she would not vote for Bernie, if that scenario should come to pass.

If you need to falsify what she said to make your point, then perhaps your point needs to be re-evaluated.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LiberalLovinLug

(14,165 posts)
83. Look I'm not going to get into it with you
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 05:41 PM
Jan 2020
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/21/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-nobody-likes-him-hulu-documentary

Asked by the Hollywood Reporter if she would endorse Sanders should he win the primary this year, Clinton refused to commit, saying: “I’m not going to go there yet.”

In that scenario, voting for Sanders would be one and the same as voting Democratic.

How can you possibly read it any other way?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
85. It's right there....
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 05:45 PM
Jan 2020

Last edited Sat Jan 25, 2020, 06:37 PM - Edit history (2)

Asked by the Hollywood Reporter if she would endorse Sanders should he win the primary this year, Clinton refused to commit, saying: “I’m not going to go there yet.”




Conveniently you choose to ignore this, which is the actual OP....:

But to be serious, the number one priority for our country and world is retiring Trump, and, as I always have, I will do whatever I can to support our nominee.


Confirmation bias does not evidence make. No matter how much you reeeallllly think it's true.

Pro tip: if one says 'Look, I'm not going to get into it with you" then proceeds to get into it, especially if one disproves one's own point, that doesn't bolster the credibility of one's posts. Also, starting a statement with "Look," in a discussion is a giveaway for being irritated.






If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LiberalLovinLug

(14,165 posts)
87. I can admit when I've made a mistake.
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 07:06 PM
Jan 2020

She did not say "vote" she said "endorse".
But don't you think that if she refused to endorse the winner, it would have a depressing turnout for many Democrats? To suggest she is not committed to endorsing the winner, IF its the one she doesn't like, is fine? When you know that that question would not even be asked of her if Biden was soaring right now. And if it ever was asked, in that instance, she would rightly look at that reporter as a nutcase for even asking.

And saying she is not going to go there, not answer the question now, is appropriate because she added "yet"? "Yet" could also be interpreted as "I'm not going to answer that yet, until I know for sure who is the winner"

Your second statement is part of her reaction answer a few days later, after feeling the pressure for her unvarnished truthful answer. A few days too late, imo.

And another wrong I am admitting. (You are on a roll here ehrnst.) I should have said "Look, I don't WANT to get into it with you" I feel I must again now if only to admit my mistakes and clear the record. Another thing you're are right about; I was irritated. Unlike yourself, I don't find it all that funny.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
89. She stated that she would endorse the winner. You are fixated on a misrepresentation of what
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 07:14 PM
Jan 2020

she said. "If she refused to support the candidate..."

A few days too late, imo.


How much time did it take for Bernie to 'clarify' after his own refusal to commit to supporting the winner if it wasn't him?

Months?



Unlike yourself, I understand the difference between expressing bemusement at someone twisting themselves into pretzels to avoid the facts that don't confirm their bias when confronted with those biases, and "finding something funny."

There are a limited number of DU smilies. If you find "chuckle" to be frivolous and offensive, perhaps you would prefer I used instead?

I'll keep that in mind for next time.






If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Bev54

(10,039 posts)
82. I find it funny
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 05:33 PM
Jan 2020

That a Bernie supporter is lecturing others about supporting the eventual nominee. What bloody hypocrisy!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to Bev54 (Reply #82)

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
92. Starting "endorsements" with a recitation of how many pledged delegates he got...
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 07:24 PM
Jan 2020

Sure...

But... if Hillary was to start any endorsement of Sanders a hypothetical Sanders victory - which you have, in this very thread continued to discuss - with a recitation the number of pledged delegates that she got, and then continued to tell the press when asked about the nominee, "Well, we just can't have a Trump victory," would you consider that to be an enthusiastic endorsement?

Or would you be irritated?

Honestly, now.





If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
77. There are those who are blinded by hate.
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 05:28 PM
Jan 2020

So those are going to hear whatever confirms that image for them, however false.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
97. You mean like when Sanders waited months after he declared he would support the nominee months after
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 07:29 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(296,875 posts)
98. NO it does NOT sound like
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 08:12 PM
Jan 2020

"back peddling" as you assert.

No Worries.. Hillary is a TEAM Player.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

lapucelle

(18,190 posts)
108. HRC never said "she will not commit to voting Democratic".
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 12:53 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

brutus smith

(685 posts)
2. Someone needs to tell Hillary that she's no longer relevent.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 08:05 AM
Jan 2020

Oh wait, I will. You're no longer relevant. You already lost 1 election for us we don't need you to lose another.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
4. Just wish Hillary hadn't said what she said... sure didn't help!!
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 08:19 AM
Jan 2020

Unfortunately, the genie is out of the bottle.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

StevieM

(10,500 posts)
78. There is no genie and there is no bottle.
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 05:28 PM
Jan 2020

She didn't say she might not support him if he is the nominee. And she has repeatedly made it clear that she will support whoever the nominee is.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
94. You mean like when Bernie refused to commit to endorsing the Dem candidate if it wasn't him?
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 07:27 PM
Jan 2020
Sanders Claims 2016 Primary Was Rigged, Won’t Commit to Supporting Winner

That "genie was out of the bottle" last July!!!!!


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MrsCoffee

(5,801 posts)
5. Another attempt to legitimize TuRdump? She didn't lose. She won by over 3 million votes.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 08:25 AM
Jan 2020

It took TREASON to keep her out of office.

And she will always be relevant. Much more so than Bernie.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pazzyanne

(6,544 posts)
6. Thank you. You voiced my take on this post!
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 08:47 AM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

brutus smith

(685 posts)
7. She did lose. Why is she spouting off now?
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 08:54 AM
Jan 2020

She should have directed her comments at trump. Taking aim at 1 Democratic candidate is not a good thing no matter who your choice is.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

MrsCoffee

(5,801 posts)
9. The fucker who was just impeached committed treason to keep her out of office.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 09:09 AM
Jan 2020

He did not “win” shit.

And she should do whatever the fuck she wants. She has directed more words, comments, speeches and WARNINGS about Trump for the last five fucking years than anyone else has. She was right about all of it.

She is right to sound the bells again.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hav

(5,969 posts)
12. "Why is she spouting off now?"
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 09:29 AM
Jan 2020

Because she voiced her opinion in the context of a documentary? Because it's relevant for current events? Because she doesn't need your permission to talk?
A certain other candidate takes plenty of aim against the other candidates. Why don't you tell him to direct his attacks at Trump and not against Democrats and the Democratic Party?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
81. "Spouting off"
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 05:31 PM
Jan 2020

A term often used by men to describe a woman or child that is out of line, or not deferential enough.

See also: mouthy.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to brutus smith (Reply #7)

 

SharonAnn

(13,771 posts)
21. She said what we know is true.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 10:18 AM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

still_one

(92,061 posts)
26. She lost because of people like David Sirota and Brianha Joy Gray who encouraged enough people NOT
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 10:33 AM
Jan 2020

to vote for the Democratic nominee, because there was no difference

In those critical swing states the Democratic nominee lost by less then 1%. Jill Stein received 1% of the vote in those states, and there is one campaign who has hired people who voted for Jill Stein

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

thesquanderer

(11,972 posts)
40. You can't assume that every Jill Stein voter would have voted for HRC...
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 12:00 PM
Jan 2020

...rather than for someone else or even just staying home. There are lots of reason HRC lost, and the Susan Sarandons et al are among the less significant ones. Here are some contributing factors that had nothing to do with Sanders or Stein...

…russian hacking/interference in the campaign

…email scandal (where even though she was found to have done nothing illegal, it still got a lot of air time, and still ended up concluding that she had handled things poorly, playing into the “poor judgment” attack)

…comey bringing emails back to the forefront the week before the election

…uninspired VP choice (he may have well been an excellent VP, but I doubt he got her so much as a single additional state, and his lackluster debate performance didn't help)

…not spending enough time and resources in the rust belt (and/or Trump putting in more)

...people who would never vote for a woman (misogyny)

…people who would vote for a woman, but would never vote for Hillary (baggage/high negatives)

…she was an "establishment" candidate in a year where many people of both parties (or neither) were more drawn to outsiders

Sure, the Sanders campaign scored some hits. Every primary competitor does. Hillary scored some hits on Obama in 2008, too. That's the nature of primaries. If you can't stand the heat, you don't belong in the kitchen.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

still_one

(92,061 posts)
54. True, not every Jill Stein voter would have voted for Clinton, however, there were enough who were
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 02:12 PM
Jan 2020

duped by the likes of David Sirota, Nina Turner, Briahna Joy Gray, Cornel West, and other prominent people who dissuaded not to vote for the Democratic nominee by either voting third party or not voting

It absolutely contribute to what happened

The Democratic nominee was ahead by 5 points before Comey came out 11 days before the election, and the said that the email investigation was reopened. That was a LIE, but and the media gladly propagated it. Several days later that 5 point lead was completely erased to even.

It didn't take many in those critical swing states to "protest" their vote by either voting third party or NOT voting, and their wonderful actions also helped pave the way for the perfect storm.

Every Democratic Senator running in those critical swing states lost to the incumbent, establishment, republican, and those Democrats were progressive by any standard.

My point being is that every little bit helped elect trump.

What is sad is that one of the Democratic candidates has hired some of the same people who not only voted for Jill Stein, but spread lies and disinformation



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

questionseverything

(9,645 posts)
91. compared to obama she lost 10 % of the black vote
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 07:20 PM
Jan 2020

Obama got 98% hc got 88%

that point gets missed repeatedly

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

BlueWI

(1,736 posts)
106. THIS.
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 02:43 AM
Jan 2020

Winning a majority of black support among primary voters in Southern states gave the campaign a false confidence this reliably Democratic constituency was locked up for the GE. This is a lesson for Biden - don't take black voters for granted, anywhere in the country! The drop-off in support for the ticket in Michigan and Milwaukee hurt the party far more than the so-called Green defections.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

questionseverything

(9,645 posts)
118. in detroit 40,000 undervotes in the pres race
Wed Jan 29, 2020, 01:26 AM
Jan 2020

same ballots voted for dems in other races


people want to be courted

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
117. While Hillary won more white female voters than Obama both in 2008 and 2012, which also gets ignored
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 07:21 PM
Jan 2020

That point gets ignored repeatedly.

About white Obama voters switching to Trump...

A new study reveals the real reason Obama voters switched to Trump
Hint: It has to do with race.


One reason is that Obama’s second term featured a significant amount of racial conflict. The Black Lives Matter movement was founded in 2013. The 2014 killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson, and subsequent week of protest and unrest, kicked off a massive and racially polarizing national debate over police violence against African Americans.

A second reason is that Obama’s very presence in office was racially polarizing. Michael Tesler, a scholar at the University of California-Irvine, has documented in detail how Obama’s very presence in the White House polarized America along racial lines. It would make sense that this effect would grow stronger the longer Obama was in office, setting the stage for a major backlash in his final year.

Third, and arguably most importantly, the two candidates turned the election into a kind of referendum on American race relations. Trump kicked off his campaign by calling Mexican immigrants rapists and vowing to build a wall between the US and Mexico. He vowed to ban Muslims, and described black life in America as a hellscape of violence and poverty. Mitt Romney’s 2012 campaign was not nearly so overt, which means it was less likely to attract voters who held latent racist and anti-immigrant attitudes.

Clinton, for her part, positioned herself as a champion of racial justice. While Obama’s rhetoric on race was typically post-racial, positioning the country as more united than divided, Clinton got out front on issues like police violence and immigration. There are plenty of valid reasons for this — Clinton was more worried about failing to turn out minority voters, Obama was more worried about alienating skittish whites, and there was no way to respond to Trump’s campaign without tackling race head-on.


I hope that clarifies some things for you about comparing HRC and Obama's electoral results among whites.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

getagrip_already

(14,647 posts)
27. only backlash was from..
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 10:38 AM
Jan 2020

supporters of a certain candidate who didn't like the truth.

Truth can be hard to hear. But it usually needs to be said when there is a lot at stake.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
33. She said this over a year ago. And she didn't say anything that hadn't been said for years.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 11:19 AM
Jan 2020

She was being honest.

Not "taking aim" with false statements.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
68. BS' book "Our Revolution" has a lot of 'spouting off,' about HRC, and he lost
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 10:57 AM
Jan 2020

by larger margin than Hillary won in the popular vote in the GE.

Or does the term "spouting off" only apply to female candidates?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
86. Yes, Bernie directs his comments at the "Democratic establishment" instead of Trump
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 05:52 PM
Jan 2020

and gets cheers for speaking truth to power...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

rockfordfile

(8,699 posts)
103. You are being a troll. Clinton can say anything she wants . Russia and others are to blame
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 11:02 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

lapucelle

(18,190 posts)
109. It's a quote from the documentary about HRC premiering at the Sundance Film Festival
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 01:13 PM
Jan 2020
this weekend.

The interview was filmed last year before the big BS announcement, so she neither "sprouted off" nor "took aim at" any candidate running as a Democrat in the presidential primary.


******************************************************************************************************



*******************************************************************************************************

The documentary will be shown in four parts on Hulu, so the "sprouting off" will continue.

Because the documentary will always be part of the record of the 2016 general election, historians will have the opportunity to hear HRC "sprout off" in the future.

And because scholars and researchers will also have access to the actual hard data, you can expect further "sprouting off" on their part.




*******************************************************************************************************




If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

delisen

(6,042 posts)
8. There is a reason Putin hates her-America's human rights champion
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 09:08 AM
Jan 2020

who had the guts to promote democratic principles and the rights of women and girls all over our world.

Show me another political figure who understands that the real revolution is about equality - not leaning in to patriarchy.

I am so over the self-proclaimed revolutionaries with borrowed 19th century economic class-based classroom analyses.

In France they have limousine socialists, like that billionaire who sexually abused the hotel maid in New York. We have academic socialists - people who study socialism and preach socialism but don't seem to be able to lead socialist lives.





If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

RandiFan1290

(6,221 posts)
13. She lost to trump. nt
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 09:35 AM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

MrsCoffee

(5,801 posts)
15. So you believe the impeached one was legitimately elected?
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 09:37 AM
Jan 2020

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BannonsLiver

(16,313 posts)
16. Moreover, they were likely tickled pink when it happened. Over the moon.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 09:39 AM
Jan 2020

Another one from the Suzie Surandon blow it all up crowd.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

still_one

(92,061 posts)
30. It also ignores the FACT that 11 days before the GE Comey released the letter to the republicans in
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 10:42 AM
Jan 2020

Congress, and our illustrious media paraded every right wing politician across their outlets spewing the LIE that the email investigation had been reopened.

It also ignores the fact that enough self-identified progressives refused to vote for the Democratic nominee in those critical swing states, because they fell for the con propagated by various people on social media and other outlets that there was no difference between republicans and Democrats

In every critical swing state Hillary lost by less than 1%, while Jill Stein received 1% of the vote.

To make matters worse 47% didn't even bother to vote.

I believe your assessment is right on MrsCoffee, trump was NOT legitimately elected, and especially with the Comey fiasco, the election was definitely interfered with, and that doesn't even include the foreign interference


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

RandiFan1290

(6,221 posts)
56. Yes, he won the election
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 03:29 PM
Jan 2020

Nancy and Chuck should make a major announcement if the opposite is true.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

lees1975

(3,841 posts)
22. Only because of Russian interference
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 10:19 AM
Jan 2020

There's something wrong in a system where you can get three million more votes in an election but still lose it. In this case, not only was it antiquated electoral college irrelevance but it got combined with figuring out how to cheat the system to get just enough votes in three states you desperately need to win.

Still, her remarks were off base. If her goal is to help see Trump retired, she needs to stay away from criticizing Democrats and focus her pointed remarks on the orange headed buffoon.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NCProgressive

(1,315 posts)
50. Russian interference and Comey played a role
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 12:23 PM
Jan 2020

but look ... those are the three states where Jill Stein got the largest % of votes.

Guess who advocated and voted for Jill Stein? David Sirota, Brihana Joy Grey and Nina Turner. It is highly unlikely that they did it on their own without direction from the top.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
23. Beating him by 3 million votes... more than any POTUS candidate not named Obama.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 10:20 AM
Jan 2020

Last edited Wed Jan 22, 2020, 11:19 AM - Edit history (1)

The Oval Office was stolen from her with democratic voter suppression in three key states where she lost by a sliver, Comey's letter, and Russian interference.

Really losing is when you get 4 million votes less than the winner...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NCProgressive

(1,315 posts)
48. Bros don't seem to get it
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 12:20 PM
Jan 2020

they're too busy high-fiving each other that they got BS a second chance to run

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
51. It serves a particular narrative to insist that she "did badly" or was a "weak candidate."
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 12:26 PM
Jan 2020

As if the clear majority of Democrats had no clue what a good candidate is.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NCProgressive

(1,315 posts)
59. Well, we all know that Bernie is the only good candidate
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 07:03 PM
Jan 2020

He is flawless. Pristine. Pure as driven snow. Smarter than Einstein, blacker than Rev. MLK Jr., able to pass impossible legislation in a single bounce.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Nanjeanne

(4,915 posts)
18. She would never listen.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 10:05 AM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

lark

(23,065 posts)
24. WRONG - Hillary didn't lose, she got 3 million more counted votes.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 10:26 AM
Jan 2020

drumpf cheated with Russian and Russian repug help and stole the election. Way to blame the victim!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MH1

(17,573 posts)
36. LOL, she's relevant enough that you commented on this post.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 11:45 AM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
62. Then how come someone is making a film about her life?
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 08:19 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ismnotwasm

(41,967 posts)
71. She is very relevant
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 03:59 PM
Jan 2020

Else she wouldn’t cause every bot and troll on every internet site or social media platform to scurry out of their dank spaces with the goddamn meltdown vapors every time she opens her mouth.



A number of factors went into her loss. She herself didn’t “lose 1 election for us” she worked her ass off to win.

And if you think she can “lose another” that further negates your statement that she is no longer relevant. Her works and works either matter, or they don’t.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(296,875 posts)
79. Someone needs to tell you that Hillary is Most "Relevant".
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 05:30 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

PufPuf23

(8,756 posts)
84. HRC is angling to be drafted at the convention as the Democratic Party candidate for POTUS
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 05:43 PM
Jan 2020

after the current contenders are bloodied in their competition.

Our current leading candidate, Joe Biden, is likely to be more damaged (not rightfully mind you) by the impeachment trial than Trump.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Cha

(296,875 posts)
96. NO Hillary is NOT.
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 07:28 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

PufPuf23

(8,756 posts)
100. You cannot say that for certain.
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 10:04 PM
Jan 2020

New documentary. Not that old of a book. Joining public discourse.

My opinion only.

Bet HRC would be open to running if asked and the Party offered support.

I am wishy washy now about the idea (there are times when would have disliked the idea) but have voted for Democratic candidate every election since McGovern and don't intend to change.

Edit to add: HRC has far more physical vitality now than Biden or Sanders (I'm a senior citizen so not being ageist but realistic).

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Cha

(296,875 posts)
101. you can't say it.
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 10:06 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

PufPuf23

(8,756 posts)
102. All I am saying is HRC is positioned for it
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 10:12 PM
Jan 2020

and probably still has the ambition as well.

Plus many folks would be pleased.

I would go as far as to say it may be a good thing (which you may find surprising).

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

StevieM

(10,500 posts)
80. Hillary kicked Trump's ass from one end of the country to the other.
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 05:30 PM
Jan 2020

She lost because of a bogus FBI investigation. And whoever the Democrats had nominated in 2016 was probably going to placed under FBI investigation. They made it impossible for the Democrat to win.

And there is nothing HRC can do to cause the 2020 Democratic candidate to win or lose. They will do so on their own merits.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hav

(5,969 posts)
17. Damn, there is so much salt in this thread
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 09:45 AM
Jan 2020

Hillary really has this ability to bring out the unhinged anger in people by doing nothing else than simply telling the truth. Whether it's from Trumpers or other bitter groups.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

brutus smith

(685 posts)
44. So what's your reasoning for her making her thoughts public?
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 12:10 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Hav

(5,969 posts)
52. My understanding is that this was part of a documentary
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 01:29 PM
Jan 2020

Her presidential campaign was only one part of an array of topics that was covered and she offered her insight. Who knows what the timeline is and when the comments were made as the plans to do it started like 2 years ago. People act like she decided to come out yesterday and look for a journalist to make this comment about Bernie when it's only one comment among 35 hours of interviews done since 2018. It's possible Bernie hadn't even made it public to run at the time of these comments.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
66. She answered a question in an interview, and it is in a documentary being released. (nt)
Fri Jan 24, 2020, 06:41 AM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Malmsy

(297 posts)
19. That's not an apology, and Bernie deserves one from her. (eom)
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 10:14 AM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LongtimeAZDem

(4,494 posts)
20. She has nothing to apologize to him for
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 10:16 AM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

lark

(23,065 posts)
25. LOL, him first!
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 10:27 AM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DURHAM D

(32,606 posts)
31. Ummh -
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 10:50 AM
Jan 2020

Приятного пребывания

Priyatnogo prebyvaniya

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

MrsCoffee

(5,801 posts)
34. For saying she was unqualified? Hillary owes less than ZERO to Bernie.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 11:31 AM
Jan 2020

He did her no favors and plenty of disservices.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

brutus smith

(685 posts)
45. With your reasoning it must be payback time?
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 12:13 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

getagrip_already

(14,647 posts)
28. the bots are strong with this thread, they are n/t
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 10:39 AM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DURHAM D

(32,606 posts)
32. Ty prav (You are correct)
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 10:53 AM
Jan 2020

So glad that Google has an English to Russian translation app - it is fun.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Eyeball_Kid

(7,429 posts)
29. Hillary is only a person with an opinion right now.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 10:40 AM
Jan 2020

Her criticism of Sanders isn't that important. IMO, folks are making too much of her comments. I don't care whether she likes Sanders or not. BFD. There are far more important issues to consider in the election than what Hillary thinks or doesn't think about any candidate. Let's move on.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

MrsCoffee

(5,801 posts)
35. Only the most qualified person to ever run for President.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 11:42 AM
Jan 2020

I care what she has to say. So do millions of Americans.

Time has shown that we should listen to her when she speaks out to warn Americans about our elections.

She will not go gentle into that good night.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

brutus smith

(685 posts)
39. So "warning Americans" is to trash Bernie?
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 11:58 AM
Jan 2020

If anything she should be trashing Joe for not doing anything before the election. The intelligence community warned the administration.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
70. And why was it the VP's personal responsibility to prevent election interference?
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 03:41 PM
Jan 2020

Or even the POTUS's?

What is it that they were supposed to do that they did not?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

brutus smith

(685 posts)
110. Where does the "buck" stop?
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 03:19 PM
Jan 2020

Since Joe wants to be associated with the good things Obama did, he can be associated with the not so good.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
111. You didn't answer the question. What was the specific responsibility of Obama and Biden
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 03:29 PM
Jan 2020

to have stopped what was going on with election interference?

You state that he and Obama didn't do something that you expected them to.

crickets

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
114. I suppose you didn't read the part that contradicts what you said about Biden?
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 06:37 PM
Jan 2020


Perhaps you're "not capable" of reading the article the article you found before posting it, so here it is.

Former Vice President Joe Biden also has complained that the White House wanted Republicans to join in a bipartisan statement announcing and condemning the interference campaign. In Biden's telling, however, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., wouldn't go along.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

brutus smith

(685 posts)
115. They didn't need a bipartisan statement.
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 06:51 PM
Jan 2020

Besides, I thought Joe could work with repubs. And pulling 1 sentence out of a whole article to try to prove your point is pretty right wing to me. But I'll let you have the last word, another right demand.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
116. Folding when you have nothing in your hand is wise.
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 06:57 PM
Jan 2020

But pushing away from the table and saying that you had a straight flush, but your opponent is an 'untrustworthy RWer' while storming out doesn't fool anyone.

Not even a pair of dueces, eh?



But you know what's a real "pretty RW" talking point?

Fact-checking Trump's claims Obama 'did nothing' to stop Russian election interference

See also, accusing others of what one is doing oneself...



Don't let the screen door hit ya...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

questionseverything

(9,645 posts)
93. that is the part that gets me..it's like who was in charge when this theft was happening?
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 07:25 PM
Jan 2020

crickets

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
112. What gets me is why no one who is saying this has any answers
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 05:16 PM
Jan 2020

when you ask who was specifically responsible and how for Russian interference that was supposed to "be prevented" in 2016.

crickets

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pecosbob

(7,533 posts)
37. Won...lost...forty percent of the electorate didn't bother to show up to vote in 2016
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 11:55 AM
Jan 2020

Thirty years of swift-boating didn't help her popularity among voters. That's all water under the bridge. We would do well to choose a candidate that does not polarize our party.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
67. It was a better turnout than 1996, 2000, and 2012.
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 10:53 AM
Jan 2020

That's a talking point that used in a way that's not really accurate concerning HRC's candidacy.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Mike Nelson

(9,944 posts)
38. I like the new...
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 11:56 AM
Jan 2020

... Hillary! Free from running for office. Of course, I already knew what she said in this tweet... but, I guess it's good for the media.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
42. I stand with HRC and the Democratic Party.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 12:05 PM
Jan 2020

Give 'em hell Hillary!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

comradebillyboy

(10,128 posts)
53. I absolutly love Hillary's authentic, unvarnished views!
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 01:40 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
57. I love Hillary, long time supporter.
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 06:38 PM
Jan 2020

But I’ve been disappointed at this negativity toward those candidates.

I dislike both of those candidates, but I fail to see how her comments help in any way.

She seems bitter and angry (which is understandable), but I still was sorry to see this.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

comradebillyboy

(10,128 posts)
61. Democrats have been walking on eggshells around Bernie for the last
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 08:18 PM
Jan 2020

four years. He's been crapping on the Party all that time. It's about time somebody called him out on his bad behavior and lack of accomplishment.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NCProgressive

(1,315 posts)
65. Go Hillary go!!
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 09:18 PM
Jan 2020

Expose the nefarious tactics

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
69. Hillary has always been straight with us. No reason to doubt her now. (nt)
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 10:58 AM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

aikoaiko

(34,163 posts)
88. Its OK Hillary. We always knew the real you.
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 07:08 PM
Jan 2020


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Cha

(296,875 posts)
99. YES, Hillary the TEAM PLAYER!
Sat Jan 25, 2020, 08:14 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

lapucelle

(18,190 posts)
107. It's important to know the "real" person behind any candidate's
Sun Jan 26, 2020, 12:46 PM
Jan 2020

carefully crafted facade. That's why vetting is so important, including the first hand perspectives of responsible and respected experts.

https://apnews.com/345bbd1af529cfb1e41305fa3ab1e604

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to brooklynite (Original post)

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