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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
Sun Feb 2, 2020, 06:40 PM Feb 2020

Rather than just paying off student loans, why not give *everyone* that sort of financial security?

This is my problem with both Warren's and Sanders's student loan plans: they would do a lot for me, a college graduate with a few dozen thousand dollars of loans still to pay off, and do precisely zero for my brother and sister in law, an electrician and waitress respectively, who never went to college. I would love to have that debt paid off, but I absolutely am not going to campaign on something that gives me tens of thousands of dollars and gives them nothing.

This is why (and, come on, you knew this was coming) I support Andrew Yang. His proposal for a Freedom Dividend for all adult citizens would let people with student loans use the money to pay those loans off, while not leaving people who never got to go to college out in the cold.

We shouldn't limit our proposals to just the richest part of the population. We should be advocating programs that help all Americans. I don't want to run on giving me money and giving my brother nothing. Help us both. Vote Yang.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
15 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
 

Blues Heron

(5,898 posts)
1. Part of the idea is to encourage you to actually go to college
Sun Feb 2, 2020, 06:49 PM
Feb 2020

Does your sister want to be a waitress all her life? This would help people like her.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Mr.Bill

(24,103 posts)
2. There are other choices
Sun Feb 2, 2020, 06:53 PM
Feb 2020

besides being a waitress and going to college. I'm 66 years old and retired. I'm not going to college.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
3. My brother definitely wants to be an electrician for the rest of his llife
Sun Feb 2, 2020, 07:01 PM
Feb 2020

He's damn good at it, and we need electricians. He's also an IBEW union organizer. He and my sister are literally the base of this party.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Blues Heron

(5,898 posts)
4. there should be education money available for both your siblings
Sun Feb 2, 2020, 07:28 PM
Feb 2020

for whatever they want to learn, not just college. It does have to be expanded as widely as possible.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

herding cats

(19,549 posts)
13. Welders, electricians, plumbers, HVAC and waitresses all are needed and respected professions
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 02:07 AM
Feb 2020

The list is much longer, but the fact remains some people actually want to do, and excel at, jobs which don't require college degrees. Granted, most of my list require apprenticeships, and then years of hours to advance through the master licensing phase, but they're earning as they're learning and advancing. There's nothing wrong with being a blue collar worker if a person chooses such. They often pay better than college degreed jobs.

Antidotal aside, I have a family member who is a waitress. She has a business degree, she was a flight attendant and she walked away. Her 5 year plan (now almost 4 years in) is a food truck, and her own business. She's saved more than her goal to date.

On edit: For clarity to others, my reply was to your original post before your edit.

You said:

Part of the idea is to encourage you to actually go to college

Does your sister want to be a waitress all her life? This would help people like her.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

OneMoreCupOfCoffee

(314 posts)
5. We should be a party that celebrates people becoming skilled electricians.
Sun Feb 2, 2020, 07:41 PM
Feb 2020

College is not the only path.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
6. Agreed! And that's why we shouldn't just help me
Sun Feb 2, 2020, 07:46 PM
Feb 2020

We should help both of us. Yang's proposal of a Freedom Dividend lets both me and my brother benefit from the strength of the American economy. I may use that money to pay off my student loans; he may use it to build a treehouse for his kids. Or for something else. That's the whole point: it lets citizens decide how to spend at least a portion of the amazing amount of wealth the US economy produces.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
11. Why do you think that Democrats aren't? Bernie's certainly promising free college for everyone.
Sun Feb 2, 2020, 09:35 PM
Feb 2020

After all:

Joe Biden scored the endorsement Saturday of a major transit union that officially backed Bernie Sanders in 2016.

“Joe has been very supportive of the labor movement for the last 40 years. He stands for working families. We recognize he’s a great candidate,” John Costa, international president of the 200,000-member Amalgamated Transit Union, told POLITICO. “We think Joe can beat Donald Trump.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/01/biden-amalgamated-transit-union-endorsement-110153

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

PETRUS

(3,678 posts)
7. That's a perfectly valid point.
Sun Feb 2, 2020, 08:02 PM
Feb 2020

I have a couple of thoughts (but no conclusions):

The first is that I think tuition-free college is a good idea that would ultimately benefit everyone, including people who don't attend. But that and/or student loan forgiveness does require an adjustment period, and many people will probably feel as though they got the shaft, and/or were passed over.

The second is that the people proposing tuition-free college and student loan forgiveness are also proposing a lot of other policy changes. The economy has a lot of moving parts, and the net effect would depend on not just the one policy, but what else is in place.

I don't have a settled opinion about a UBI, but I've been trying to study up on it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
15. Tuition free college can be a good idea, but it comes with some trade-offs
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 05:33 AM
Feb 2020

I've lived in countries with free or highly subsidized tuition, and I think it's important to recognize them. First off they wind up being much much more selective about who can go to college than we are in the US. In Germany, you take a test when you're 12 that basically decides whether you get to go to college or not. When we moved to France last year I thought "hey, maybe I'll get my portfolio together and go to conservatory": no, it's only for students 25 and younger -- that's another thing: countries that do this give a student one shot at college, and that's it. I don't know if Americans would like that idea.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
8. And more than that - people depending on disability,
Sun Feb 2, 2020, 08:05 PM
Feb 2020

or not even able to get disability despite being disabled - they need help too. So many people besides college graduates are struggling.

A trickle up economy is something we should have tried long ago. It's time.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
9. So true!
Sun Feb 2, 2020, 08:31 PM
Feb 2020

Trickle-up is the way to go. Let's end the humiliating requirements and hoops people have to jump through to get Disability payments. Just give everybody their dividend. That will help every neighborhood at the local level.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

msongs

(67,193 posts)
10. bernie can pay off my mortgage since I was an idiot who paid back my student loans nt
Sun Feb 2, 2020, 08:55 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

OneMoreCupOfCoffee

(314 posts)
12. Anyone who is against paying off your mortgage is selfish!
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 01:33 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

kcr

(15,300 posts)
14. People sure do have short memories around here.
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 04:52 AM
Feb 2020

I remember the same kind of selfishness when many people were losing their homes during the crash. Plenty of people against mortgage relief for the same reasons.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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