Hard Truth Time: #MeToo Is Morphing Into Cultural Hostage Taking

[Stare Decisis]

There. I said it. It needs to be said. Why? Because I have been alone in a room with women. So has every man ever. At parties, in break rooms, in theaters, schools-and while I NEVER EVER touched one inappropriately, I have hugged, and rubbed heads, and politely kissed them on the cheek-if THIS is disqualifying let me tell you where this ends-

With Republicans laughing at a party impaled on its own moral petard as they consolidate power even further.

This is undermining our very best-this is making us look like asses and gives aid and comfort to our opponents.

Enough is enough. Stop it. Nobody is so important as to be able to derail a presidential campaign over hugs. For fuck's sake.

[BannonsLiver]

1. It jumped the shark more than a year ago

The movement has been coopted by political operatives and nut cases. It’s basically a joke now.

[guillaumeb]

9. A joke?

Now we see why women are so reluctant to come forward.

[BannonsLiver]

11. Yeah, a joke

Hijacked by politicos and nut jobs. Sue me.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

54. +1

[Bettie]

113. It became a joke when

people began to conflate having their waist touched, or being uncomfortable with sexual harassment, sexual assault, and rape.

Now, apparently, they are all equally egregious offenses.

I'm a woman. I was sexually abused for most of my childhood, but that is not even important anymore, because someone may have received an unwanted hug or felt uncomfortable around someone.

I was happy to see Me Too start up, now, it's been weaponized.

[demmiblue]

2. I see what you are doing. n/t

[Squinch]

3. Yep. All those wimmins should just shut up and take it as a compliment.

Amiright?? Amiright??

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

5. Right... the #MeToo movement be damned!! Those saying this should tell that to Warren & Castro

who came out in support of Lucy, saying they believe her.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Demsrule86]

15. This hurts victims real victims not political operatives like Flores and the Eskimo kiss

woman who's name escapes me. I was attacked and sent to the hospital and I listen to those twits talk noses and shoulders. It makes me sick.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

17. Be sure to let Warren & Castro know about this...why do you think they stand w/ Lucy & believe her?

I'm sorry to hear what happened to you... but, why should that diminish lesser offenses that some women find objectionable? I think that's a fair question.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[GemDigger]

36. One big difference between me too then and now. Then it was about sexual assualt/rape/blackmail

for sex. Now it is about invading personal space. See the difference?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

38. You're seriously characterizing (& minimizing) these kind of incidents as "invading personal space"?

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[GemDigger]

40. You seriousely do NOT see the difference?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

41. OBVIOUSLY, there's a difference...that doesn't make your characterization accurate or appropriate.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[GemDigger]

46. I speak for myself and as a survivor ( I was left for dead after the ordeal) I feel calling this

a metoo moment feels like actual survivors are being minimized by the very women that are supporting metoo.

I have seen others speaking out on DU about their own experience but all I see is the responses of "they invaded her space", "what about supporting woman", "what about metoo and also "I'm sorry for what you went through" which without a little compassion is no more meaningful that thoughts and prayers from lawmakers."

That other women on DU are not seeing how it makes us feel.

I won't get into this anymore because it is very distressing to have said such a painful thing in an open forum.

[handmade34]

52. so sorry

[Demsrule86]

73. So sorry. I get it...took me years. This brought it back.

[GemDigger]

110. I am so sorry Demsrule86.

I hope it wasn't my in your face comments that brought the pain back to you. I should have chosen my words with a little more discretion.

[Demsrule86]

111. No it wasnt your words...the situation mostly. On the other hand, I told my husband of 30 years.

He knew something had happened but didn't know the detail so that was a silver lining...my parents said I was in a car accident. I eventually got therapy and it saved my life. I put this away after that and refused to think about it...still had nightmares but I ignored them... I actually feel better and my husband was wonderful. I honestly don't know why I never told him. Even my own sister and brothers don't know. I want women to be able to come forward...I was told since I had been to a bar it was my fault. I don't believe that. And what made me angry is I think the politically motivated women who come forward in a me too fashion make it less likely that women will be believed in the future...the line is blurred. This is bad for us all. We need me too...we will go from all women must be believed to no women are to be believed if this doesn't end.

[GemDigger]

114. I hope that being able to finally tell your husband has brought you some peace.

Tell him that I think he is wonderful and ask him if I can give him a

And what made me angry is I think the politically motivated women who come forward in a me too fashion make it less likely that women will be believed in the future...the line is blurred. This is bad for us all. We need me too...we will go from all women must be believed to no women are to be believed if this doesn't end.

I believe women as a whole but I don't believe all women are honest and doing things for the right reasons.

[Demsrule86]

115. Good way of putting it...I will tell my hubs...what you say.

[Amimnoch]

105. Do you believe this helps women who have suffered as you have?

Do you think women who have suffered full on harassment or assault will see people attacking the women with, relatively speaking, very minor claims of personnel space invasion as a case of encouragement and support for stating their own harassment or assault??

Joe Biden himself lent credit to the claims of these women, without attacking them, without questioning their motives.

So far, every statement from our whole pool of candidates has supported these women to some extent, at the very least supported their feelings and their rights to have their story heard without judgement heaped upon them.

If our candidates and leadership comes out against these women that are coming out and making their statements, we will be sending a horrendously wrong message.

I fully, and in my heart, believe that our candidates listening to and validating these women, especially given the questionability of motives that have been raised in the media and here, reinforces that we, as a party and as a people WILL listen. After all, if we are willing to listen, respond to, and address something as, relatively speaking, minor as this, it sends a STRONG message that we will do even more so for those like you who have gone through such horrendous, unfathomable torment.

I remain supportive of Biden AND his response that was considerate to the feelings, and non-accusatory.
I remain supportive of our field of candidates who have done the right thing and not attack or condemn or question the motives of those making the statements.

It was the RIGHT thing to do, even if it sucks that it's hurting the candidacy of one GREAT hopeful. I suspect that Joe will end up an even stronger contender because of the way he responded and handled it.

[GemDigger]

106. I believe their space was invaded as do the candidates. I am not denying that.

I do think the outrage of women here towards space invaders is a slap to the face of actual physical/sexual assault survivors who have been victims of forced vagina penetration, forced oral sex, forced anal sex, faces mutilated and broken from getting punched, being left for dead, etc. I speak as a survivor. I speak for myself.

Many women here on DU that are survivors have tried to explain our feelings on this board and all we have gotten was "but metoo", "their personal space" and the last best insult of "so sorry" which has as much sincerity as lawmakers thoughts and prayers when their very next comment to someone else clearly shows they didn't listen, didn't want to listen and that they are definitely not sorry.

[Amimnoch]

108. I totally agree with false equivalency.

The claims against Joe Biden should NEVER be equated to sexual harassment or assault. They are clearly not. None of the claims against him in any way indicate threatening behavior, overtly sexual behavior, or disrespected to the receivers. In a bit of irony, each of the cases more demonstrates a person trying to offer sympathy and understanding, which is just the opposite.

I'd attempted to post a layout of facts in my own separate post:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/128747774

[GemDigger]

109. I wish I had your eloquence.

That's basically what I have been trying to say and didn't even come close.

[pazzyanne]

39. Believe it or not, women have the right to set their own limits

with people who do touching that makes them feel uncomfortable. There have been many posts on this and other OPs that show the correct way to address these types of offenses. As a 75 year old survivor of sexual abuse, I have addressed my discomfort on several occasions without any backlash other than sometimes it takes more than a polite request that I do not want to be touch by people I do not know well. Usually the response is a polite apology by the person doing the touching. On rare occasions I have had to take a tougher stance, which has always produced the results I have requested. Never have I years later found it necessary to publicly attack one of the people who touched me without permission. I am NOT talking about sexual abuse but about touching that I do not want or ask for.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

48. That's a perfectly reasonable way to handle such situations.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[at140]

56. Now I appreciate the Indian culture even more

when no man touched a teenage or older woman not in his immediate family.
It was just the usual Namaste greeting. But that was many decades ago while growing up in India.
Things might have changed for the worse.

[treestar]

75. Men would too then

This is not about sexual assault. This is about social touching. So limiting it to women makes it seem like it has something to do with more than just social situation.

And if you think there are no men who would use this you are kidding yourself. I can hear it now. Desperate feminist, never gets laid, tried to come on to me. Very easy.

And next it will be "I don't like the way he looked at me, it was leering."

Take nothing to any extreme. It backfires.

[pazzyanne]

91. What?

Did you actually read my post, because what you wrote does not make sense to me. Please explain.

[treestar]

92. "women get to set their own limits"

As if only women could be offended by such things.

[Bettie]

116. I've seldom had to do more than

take a step back or say "please stop".

The vast majority of men (and women) will simply back off, often with an apology.

I too have never felt the need to publicly attack someone years later.

I tell my kids all the time that they are going to have times in their lives when they are uncomfortable. The world is not set up to make everyone happy all the time or to make everyone comfortable all the time. We still have to live in the world though, so we need to learn to handle it.

Actually, some of my greatest learning experiences have started with me feeling really uncomfortable.

[Demsrule86]

47. I don't believe them..not credible and political...causes women like me to not be believed and

helps the monsters who assault women to claim we are lying.

[Thekaspervote]

62. +1000

[sarabelle]

44. It's ok to believe her. But believing her means what? She was uneasy with Biden

kissing her head from behind as he held her shoulders in public?

Was she as open about the actual harassment charges against members of her Sanders campaign? If she truly wanted Biden to stop his behavior or to let him know how she felt about it, she could have told him when it happened or at least contacted Jill to let her know how she felt when it happened. I have, on several occasions, said to overly friendly men, "I'm uncomfortable with touchy-feely so please don' t do that again." Never had a problem and men and the one woman I said that to never had a problem in apologizing and life went on with professional relationships and in two cases, lasting friendships.

Now being in a different situation like attempted rape, groping, touching in intimate places etc. is a totally different story. And other more forceful or legal measures should be taken as soon as possible.

[treestar]

77. That's not what they said

And why just women? Don't men get space too? You should be just as mad at Biden for doing the same thing to Franken.

[dsc]

4. yes how dare those uppity women actually expect to control their personal space

newsflash, they aren't your playthings, your good luck charms to rub for luck, nor your sandwich makers.

[demmiblue]

14. It is shocking to see posters here reccing a thread entitled...

"Hard Truth Time: #MeToo Is Morphing Into Cultural Hostage Taking." Especially since the Biden thing isn't a #MeToo issue. I would say more about the intent of the OP, but I don't want to get a hide. It reminds me of the fake shit that people fall for on Facebook.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

53. +1

[Thekaspervote]

63. Oh amen to that one!!

[Celerity]

72. Thank you

Great post

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

23. IKR!!I Never expected to see some of the comments I've read here... it's quite shocking!

Now imagine if the same charges were leveled against Bernie... what do you think the reaction would be from these same people?! That's a rhetorical question... we all know the answer with 100% certainty.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ucrdem]

34. He was there to support her candidacy.

Did you miss that part?

[Historic NY]

6. The women that did Franken, where are they now?

back into the woodwork, now were seeing the polygraph that Va. Lt. Gov took, seems to clear him.

Maybe Pence has the right idea, after all.

[BannonsLiver]

71. Probably spending their rubles somewhere.

[IluvPitties]

93. They did their job, and they are now quiet.

[lettucebe]

7. You cannot legislate behavior

I am a 62-year-old female. I've got my share of stories as do most women but this situation is unbelievable. We've moved from the very real issue of inappropriate behavior in the work place (or for person's with authority) to this nonsense. Men and women will interact today, tomorrow, and let's hope in the future.

If you don't want to be hugged just say so. Lot's of people do not like hugging and usually they say so up front -- do not huge me, thank you. It's easy enough. If someone hugs me first without asking (which is normal) and I don't like that, I just let them know for next time.

Unwanted sexual touching is obviously never okay (thinking Trump's grabbing remarks). Never okay. If someone grabbed my crotch today I'd punch them in the face, much as I did in 7th grade when a boy walked up and grabbed my boobs -- A well planted slam to his crotch ended that (though he did slug me first, haha).

We need to teach boys what is proper behavior -- I know that's a tall measure since many grown men don't seem to understand, but let's try.

That said, every photo you see of Biden holding someone's shoulders shows smiling happy people. He is a touchy guy (who no doubt will start trying to rein that in), but it is obviously not sexual. Seriously if we start attacking everyone that ever hugged without permission we have bigger problems than we realized.

[TruckFump]

8. +1

[Squinch]

12. Biden's not a boy. He's been told for decades to stop being handsy.

And no. Many pictures show women and girls who are clearly uncomfortable.

No one is likely to stop a public appearance or campaign event to give Joe a heart to heart on welcome and unwelcome touches. And no one should have to.

And of course you can legislate behavior. That is what legislation is for.

[Demsrule86]

16. I don't see any pictures showing uncomfortable women,

Weaponizing me to will destroy it.

[Socal31]

58. Uh....they are all over.

[Bradshaw3]

31. "Hes been told for decades to stop being handsy." Can you back that up?

You know with actual stories or quotes from 20 years ago that he was told to do as you said? I don't mean you just repeating that "everybody knows it" or pics that you claim based only on your personal assumption or some other similar non-proof. I mean any links or anything whatsoever to back up your claim that he had been told this for decades (meaning at least 20 years) and that he kept it up knowing that what he was doing was wrong.

[treestar]

76. Who told him for decades?

I haven't seen that alleged before; who has warned him?

[Autumn]

13. I think when the women who speak out of their discomfort when men invade their

personal space are attacked we will have even bigger problems. Yes, Joe is aware and I doubt it will happen again. But the attacks on the women who spoke out are disgusting.

[Demsrule86]

20. These women speak out for political reasons just like Franken .

They disgust me. Clearly they have no first hand experience with the real thing .

[Autumn]

24. So you keep saying. Clearly you have the ability to know first hand how they feel

about their own experiences.

[Demsrule86]

42. I know how I feel. I was attacked and sent to the hospital. My assailant was not prosecuted because

I went to a bar with friends. He was back at the bar before I left the hospital. I quit my job and didn't leave my house for a year. It took years to come to terms with what happened to me. And these two and their fake stories of noses and arms make me sick. They diminish women like me and our stories . They are political operatives and should be ashamed.

[Autumn]

55. I'm sorry that happened to you. A lot of us have similar stories to yours. I do.

That's why I can understand their feelings. It's that invasion of our bodies and our space and a man putting his hands wherever he wants to. They might not have had the shit knocked out of them and raped on the floor but I'm not about to diminish their experiences that they found uncomfortable or degrading.

[Demsrule86]

59. I don't dont belive that...political operatives who will make it worse for women

Who are assaulted.

[IluvPitties]

96. Not everthing in life is a power struggle between men and women.

That is the reaction you are seeing here.

[Autumn]

107. That's true. For many years now we have told women that they no longer have to tolerate

encounters that made them feel uncomfortable with people in the workplace. Now seems that they are holding those standards to people they encounter in other areas of daily life, not just the workplace. Do we now tell women okay, you don't have to put up with it at work but if you are in politics, at a rally, meeting politicians or any encounter with powerful people and they make you uncomfortable there's a different standard? I haven't see younger politicians being "huggy" like Biden has always been. I think it's a generational thing, but in a workplace a man doing that to women would be out the door because he would be a liability no matter how long he had been with the company

[treestar]

78. Agreed, and the younger generation is more touchy feely

IMO. They grew up with it.

[IluvPitties]

95. And I am glad they are! We need more affection in this world!

[LAS14]

85. +1

[IluvPitties]

94. Thank you for your common sense!

[BlueFlorida]

10. Exactly this

It is almost like mocking the survivors of real rape and real sexual harassment.

[Demsrule86]

18. As a victim of sexual assault and harrassment that is exactly how I feel.

[ucrdem]

22. +1

[Demsrule86]

28. Thanks for the support.

[ucrdem]

49. You got it!

You are doing good work here.

[treestar]

79. +1

[zipplewrath]

80. What everyone fears

Especially if you believe this is just so much political maneuvering, the fear here is that after some short period of time with more stories coming out of this kind of casual touching, there is going to be the butt pat story. If that wasn't enough, the next will be the unwanted forced kiss. And of course we can top it all off with the breast grope if that becomes necessary. Do you dismiss them all?

The problem with the "real" stories, as innocuous as they may seem, is that they set the stage for progressively more serious charges.

[BlueFlorida]

89. If there were stories like that

they would have come out by now.

The stories that have come out are all innocuous and much ado about nothing.

Comparing it to the seriousness of rape, sexual assault and real harassment is shameful.

[IluvPitties]

97. Shameful it is. #metoo started in 2017.

Biden would have been outed by now, given his profile.

[LAS14]

86. +1

[ucrdem]

19. Maybe we should go back to kissing lady's hands and calling them madame.

Except if they are young and attractive, in which case calling them ma chérie. Speaking of which I heard her story today in an NPR newscast and it had the ring of a bad TED talk confession. How anyone could be persuaded by that bill of goods is beyond me.

[Demsrule86]

21. Me either.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

25. What is that sposed to mean? Why are you diminishing the #MeToo movement?!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ucrdem]

26. She wasn't harrassed or molested.

And the experience as she described it sounded implausible and frankly ridiculous. He was there to support her candidacy and letting her know he'd arrived. How the heck was supposed to do it? Also she didn't show a trace of gratitude or even seem to realize that she should. She sounded like a dishonest opportunist. Sorry, that's what I heard.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

29. That's how you let women know you've arrived?! That's news to me and, probably, most people!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ucrdem]

32. How would you have done it?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

35. Ummm... say "hello"?!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ucrdem]

37. There was a campaign event in progress.

They were in a hall. You're supposed to be quiet backstage. He was there to support her and that's what he was doing.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

103. Yeah, all the rowdies at the event mightve heard Joe say "hello" to Flores backstage...

how awful that could have been!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ucrdem]

104. Yes if they wearing wireless microphones.

It was Lucy's event and she was about to walk out. And if it was a rowdy moment she wouldn't have heard him say hello in a low voice. In fact he might have said something and when she didn't hear him he tried it another way. Too bad we don't have any witnesses or photos of the offending event eh?

[Demsrule86]

30. The women acting as political operatives are destroying me too.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

33. What makes Lucy a political operative who then can't be the victim of inappropriate touching?

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[True Blue American]

102. We aren't. The women coming on with their touching stories are damaging

What was a real movement. Now, we may go back to not believing women.

[njhoneybadger]

27. My wife teaches 1st grade she gets a lot of "he/she touched me"

[LongtimeAZDem]

43. This may be the most on point comment today

[Thekaspervote]

64. Ha.. and he/she touched my peanut butter sandwich!!!

[BannonsLiver]

69. Same as it ever was.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

45. The party needs to get a grip.

We have a sexually abusive man in the WH, who has BRAGGED about sexually-assaulting women (grabbing them by the genitals). Many times, he basically ambushed the women he assaulted. The repubs said/did NOTHING about this, except to dismiss the women. Every religious fraud out there gave him a pass. The christianistas looked the other way. Many of his supporters took to trolling these women, doxxing them and sending them death threats. Not one of his accusers has seen her day in court. His own wife publicly categorized his behavior basically as "boys will be boys." He has supported every serial pervert, abuser, wife-beater out there.

THIS did not rise to THAT.

Did Biden behave in an inappropriate manner ? Yes, if she says he did. Did she feel "uncomfortable" with his behavior ? She said that she did. Believe her. BUT, He did NOT assault her. He did NOT molest her or grab her or rape her. There is NO "he said/she said" here, as it happened in full view.

He has said that he has no recollection of her being uncomfortable and that if she was, he is sorry for that.

This should be the end of it.

She is not going to need therapy to "cope" with this. There is no long-lasting effect here. There is no PTSD here.

This DOES delegitimize the damaged women and men who have come forward in the MeToo movement. This trivializes their anguish, and makes a mockery of real sexual abuse/assault/trauma.

Right now the repubs are salivating over the prospect of democrats savaging their own. We look like fools. If this keeps up, NO ONE will make it to the primary because everyone has said/done something inappropriate at one time or another. Humans are not perfect and no one is a saint.

We have got to stop the piranha-like feeding frenzy going on right now. Stop the hand-wringing. Stop the hysteria. This kind of insanity will NOT win us the WH in 2020.

[Note: I've worked in crisis centers and shelters for abused men and women. Heard real stories and BS and I know the difference between the two. If you don't like my post, get over it. But, save your energy and don't bother slashing back at me. I won't respond. And I'm immune.]

[happy feet]

57. Well said!

[MustLoveBeagles]

61. I agree

[IluvPitties]

98. Thanks! Excellent post!

[highplainsdem]

50. I don't think most women are misusing the #MeToo movement, but some are, and the attacks on Biden

are perfect examples.

I thought #MeToo was about sexual assault and sexual harassment.

It if turns into women trying to exploit any casually affectionate or reassuring touch to try to take down a man they want taken down for any particular reason, then the women who are using it this way are nearly as much enemies of women who genuinely need the #MeToo movement as the men committing sexual assault and sexual harassment.

If the #MeToo movement turns into a way for people who are uncomfortable with casual contact to get heavy-handed revenge on people are more demonstrative -- even when no offense was meant -- then God help us, because that misused social movement won't.

As a woman, I'm glad we've gone beyond the days when women rarely felt brave enough to come forward, if they were sexually assaulted or harassed.

But I think the misuse of the #MeToo movement to attack men who were being innocently affectionate or reassuring is an absolute travesty that the women misusing it that way should be very ashamed of.

And if people who can't stand casual physical contact, no matter how innocent, and who think that should be a justification for trying to destroy someone's reputation or career, then IMO those people should either wear large identifying labels or maybe plastic bubbles or wire cages, so that the vast number of people in any normal society who are okay with such contact don't accidentally make them uncomfortable.

[IluvPitties]

99. Exactly.

[Andy823]

60. Looks to me like a hit and run post

That is only stirring things up, not helping at all. I have seen a lot of these lately, and they don't help, they only cause more problems.

[IndyOp]

74. Yes. Exactly. nt

[demmiblue]

81. Pegged this one a long time ago.

It is a shame people can't see through it.

[LAS14]

87. I find it very helpful! So glad for the common sense posts. nt

[Meowmee]

65. Yes it became a joke

With the mcarthy/fascist tactics used to attack political opponents. That is pretty much what it is now.

[loyalsister]

66. I recall hearing jokes about Anita Hill, too

Because, of course Clarence Thomas didn't intend to make her feel uncomfortable. A lot of men saw that as an attack on them, too. Or maybe an attack in waiting if she gets away with destroying an upstanding judge.

[Meowmee]

67. Actually it is not a joke, it is another fascist aspect of what is happening currently.

Not funny at all.

[BannonsLiver]

70. I applaud your comment

I know you’re probably not a Biden fan, but it’s one of the few responses that ever mentions what Thomas actually did. Most folks around here just blame Biden, they rarely ever mention what Thomas did.

[delisen]

68. Hugging is human; politicians hug and get hugged

people touch touch people. In crowds, at concerts, on subways.....

the sense of touch is important.

children learn good touch, bad touch in pre-kindigarten

touch can be comforting

[WeekiWater]

83. #metoo movement kicks ass.

No one is being derailed because of the movement.

[LexVegas]

84. MRA bullshit. Transparent as fuck.

[LAS14]

88. What's MRA?

[Gothmog]

90. I like this statement by Joe Biden

Link to tweet

[LanternWaste]

100. It's a great excuse for anyone who had problems with the movement in the first place

It's a great excuse for anyone who had problems with the movement in the first place to better pretend their concerns are sincere and substantive.

Red meat ripped right off the bone.

Enough is enough, indeed.

[Tarc]

101. The alt-right narrative is trying to take hold at the DU, I see

Good luck with that.

[loyalsister]

112. The defensiveness is more damaging than the incidents

The assomption there is some huge movement to discredit Biden because one person said so and there are some people who understand her perspective is an over the top knee jerk response. And the resulting defensiveness is ugly and sadly familiar.

"A man's intention overrides and invalidates any sense of discomfort or intrusion a woman might experience with unexpected, unsolicited physical contact."

A personal categorization of how all others should respond to an experience should be written in a way that gives men we like the benefit of the doubt. And a valid response is for any woman who violates the rule to be target and assumed liar."

"My rape was legitimate and renders any other experience of discomfort meaningless."

And worst of all "this is unfair to men who seek affection without permission."

It's a good time to listen to candidates, their supporters, let critics have their say and make a choice to walk away or listen.

The flip side is suspected political maneuvering when someone like Lindsay Graham, who already has a low opinion of women who do not meet his personal standards and judgement, seems to be eager to find common ground with people who do not usually support him.

At face value it's just another piece of laundry aired before the general election. Some may want to factor into our personal decisions. In fact there may be voters so impressesed by Joe's response that they decide to support him.

In that case it would be risky and counter productive to target women who have spoken out on his behalf.