If our nominee can't get POC out to vote we're toast

[redstateblues]

Right now, neither of our front runners has shown that ability

[HowardZinnfandel]

1. So, Sanders?

In Iowa, Sanders has by far done the best in the most diverse (read: not as white) counties. Politico has a good visualization showing this.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

79. Shhhhhhh.... you're not supposed to say positive things about Bernie!!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[ZZenith]

2. You don't think people of color have any incentive to remove Trump?

Is that truly what you believe?

[Demsrule86]

128. I don't think they will all vote for us if we choose a nominee that doesn't have much AA support...

if only a few don't vote, we are cooked.

[Cha]

3. Joe Biden has the highest % with POC as

you know!

[Hassin Bin Sober]

4. Not in Iowa he didn't.

Bernie cleaned up with people of color in Iowa.

Or are these people of color somehow different because they are from Iowa?

[Cha]

6. Biden holds wide lead among black voters in Democratic presidential race, Post-Ipsos poll finds Here

Former vice president Joe Biden is far and away the favored candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination among black Americans, boosted by his personal popularity, his service in the Obama administration and perceptions that he is best equipped to defeat President Trump, according to a national Washington Post-Ipsos poll.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-holds-wide-lead-among-black-voters-in-democratic-presidential-race-post-ipsos-poll-finds/2020/01/11/76ecff08-3325-11ea-a053-dc6d944ba776_story.html

[Hassin Bin Sober]

8. Well, actual people who voted Monday say different.

[emmaverybo]

19. In one state in Caucus voting. That has yet to change Biden's AA support or Sanders' and

while Sanders has a lack thereof, Biden’s is still strong.

[zackymilly]

88. The proof will be in the future votes. n/t

[emmaverybo]

92. Yes. Our theories, models, and polls will be tested.

[pnwmom]

9. Caucus voters of EVERY color are different from primary voters.

The kind of voter who can be convinced to spend hours of their free time "discussing" politics with their neighbors is not representative of voters overall.

That's why in the states that had both caucuses and primaries, there were different outcomes. For example, Bernie won the WA caucuses with 73% of the vote, but Hillary won the much larger, more inclusive primaries with 54%.

[greatauntoftriplets]

29. Do you have verifiable statistics for that or is it your opinion?

Final results aren't in yet.

[TexasTowelie]

81. Nothing but

[greatauntoftriplets]

82. Exactly what I thought.

Since the totals are not yet finalized, there's really no way of knowing. Wishful thinking, IMO.

[ehrnst]

37. Can you provide the stats that Bernie cleaned up with the 11% of the Iowa population

that is POC, and that participated in the caucuses?

I mean if there was a primary, and the votes in the two cities where the POC population resides, then there would be a basis for judging. Caucuses allow for someone who has loud and persistent delegates to steer the candidate choice away from that which the people would have chosen themselves, if given the chance.

I'm interested in where you got those stats that support your claim?

I find it surprising because Bernie certainly hasn't done that well with POC in Vermont. Perhaps if indeed "Bernie cleaned up with POC" in IA that's because IA POC haven't dealt with him directly?

'We Find Ourselves Excluded': Racial Justice Leaders Ask Bernie Sanders 'To Get With The Program'

It seems like it took a POTUS run for him to listen to the POC in Vermont.

Sanders pledges to ‘do better’ representing Vt. racial minorities

Sen. Bernie Sanders said he will “try to do better” in reaching out to racial justice leaders in Vermont in response to criticism that he has fallen short in representing the state’s minorities during his long political career.

[TexasTowelie]

83. .

[ehrnst]

93. Yep.

[BootinUp]

5. I feel like its all going to work out. Thats all I got

at this time. Play something good Sam.

[scheming daemons]

7. I think POC will crawl over broken glass to get to the polls to vote against Trump....

....regardless of the nominee.

[pnwmom]

10. I think you're overly optimistic. nt

[scheming daemons]

11. POC are the most impacted by the Trump administration....

... fear motivates better than love in politics.

[Cha]

13. I'm still hoping for someone POC care about

the most because that's who I want.

Biden holds wide lead among black voters in Democratic presidential race, Post-Ipsos poll finds Here

Former vice president Joe Biden is far and away the favored candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination among black Americans, boosted by his personal popularity, his service in the Obama administration and perceptions that he is best equipped to defeat President Trump, according to a national Washington Post-Ipsos poll.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=480333

[scheming daemons]

15. I don't disagree. But Joe needs a strong NH showing.

[Cha]

16. I hope so!

[Iliyah]

28. True . . .

Many know that Iowa and NH does not represent the USA's diverse population and apparently are not included in the overall judgment of same.

[R B Garr]

84. Could be, and maybe because he maligns Obama so much. Obama's legacy

was supposedly one of the reasons Biden is so popular with POC. Biden is seen as being a faithful servant to his President and is protective of his legacy.

[StarfishSaver]

87. That may be true. But why is it that POC are assumed to be willing to break their necks

to vote for whoever the Democratic candidate is, but other demographics - e.g., young people, progressives - are supposed to be wooed, catered to, respected reached out to, not taken for granted, and not ever ever ever offended in the least possible way?

I'm constantly seeing posts and commentary about how we must go out of our way to appeal to certain segments of the party - and when it's even suggested that we stop treating them like their stuff don't stink, we're told "Oh, great way to drive them away" - but when people talk about the black vote, the response tends to be "they're going to vote Democratic no matter what."

Why are we taken for granted and expected to save the party and the country with barely a second thought while everyone else gets their arses kissed?

[scheming daemons]

90. Because too many "liberals" with white privilege don't live with the same threat

The Trump presidency is existential for POC.

Too many white liberals simply don't face the same threat.

[redstateblues]

113. They didn't in 2016

[scheming daemons]

114. Trump was a cartoon character then. Many didn't see just how bad he would be.

They thought he'd be bad, but not turn-America-into-a-dictatorship bad.

[Gothmog]

12. Agreed

Link to tweet

[dansolo]

20. "20K black people decided they rather not vote in WIS & MI"????

There seems to be a little re-writing of history here, considering that voter disenfranchisement prevented probably 10 times that number from voting.

[StarfishSaver]

100. Thank you

I'm really sick of people blaming black voters for not turning out while completely ignoring the voter suppression that increased significantly after the Supreme Court gave suppression the green light in 2013 in Shelby v. Holder.

[Afromania]

106. Here they are at it again hitching that black people aren't saving democracy from their fucking own.

Meanwhile we need to have a big tent that includes people like Joe rogan and former republicans that aren't all that former. Were supposed to jump the hurdles out in front of us to make that vote while their own get to be either outright evil or wishy washy as fuck(indys, 3rd party). Why don't more black people turn out? Why don't more white people stop being stupid, ignorant and insane?

These primaries don't matter because , as far as I'm concerned , and most folks I know. Any of the above will do what needs to be done as president. They'll all do the bare minimum required for minority communities no matter what they say. The bare minimum right now is to not be a damn Nazi and promote Nazi suit as a good thing. Anything done for "us" is always something also done for the good of everybody else . There will be no large scale uplifting going to happen and we get that. They are all too afraid of losing the wishy washy vote to do much more.


So
Any
functional
Democrat
In
2020

*that includes 1 indy and a wishy washy asshole buying his way in

[StarfishSaver]

107. Thank YOU!

[SaschaHM]

14. Yup.

Last edited Thu Feb 6, 2020, 01:50 PM - Edit history (1)

People either don't understand or choose to ignore the hurdles that are routinely placed in front AA voters to drive down their vote. You need someone that's going to inspire AA voters to wait in long lines to use 1 or 2 machines in some places, to travel long distances to the nearest DMV for ID in others, and to vote early during limited hours in others.

And still the Democrat party decides to spend a year and millions of dollars in a predominately white state Trump won by 9 points when Michigan or Illinois would have been better Midwestern options. Imagine the leg up the party would have had if the order had been Michigan, Pennsylvania, South Carolina or Georgia, and Nevada as the first 4 primaries before Super Tuesday.

Edit: Democratic* party. Typos happen people.

[BootinUp]

17. excellent point. nt

[Cha]

18. Thank you for those.. Yes, Excellent points, Sascha!

[rzemanfl]

27. "Democrat party?" Seriously? n/t

[ehrnst]

44. "Democrat" party?

[treestar]

51. Yep just getting out the vote

We got a D Senator in Alabama. We have to do what we did there.

[redstateblues]

63. Democrat Party? That's a tell

[MFGsunny]

70. This! n/t

[Cuthbert Allgood]

21. Question

Why is the over arching thought on youth that they getter just get out and vote regardless of who the nominee is and if they don't they are dumb and selfish, but the same standard isn't held for POC? Almost send like the people making the argument just change friending on the nominee being discussed.

And Sanders did great with POC in Iowa.

[ehrnst]

22. Question: Can you point out who is calling youth "dumb and selfish?"

Where are you seeing this "over arching thought?" I'm sure you can show us that's not a straw man.

POC are the most reliable voting base that the Dems have. Any primary candidate that is not the choice of POC has not gotten the nomination.

Also, what statistic do you use to back up that Sanders "did great" the the 8.3% of the IA population that are POC?

He certainly hasn't "done great" with POC in Vermont.

'We Find Ourselves Excluded': Racial Justice Leaders Ask Bernie Sanders 'To Get With The Program'

It seems like it took a POTUS run for him to listen to the POC in Vermont.

Sanders pledges to ‘do better’ representing Vt. racial minorities

Sen. Bernie Sanders said he will “try to do better” in reaching out to racial justice leaders in Vermont in response to criticism that he has fallen short in representing the state’s minorities during his long political career.

Vermont’s Black Leaders: We Were ‘Invisible’ to Bernie Sanders

[Cuthbert Allgood]

25. You can read. Pick anything that talks about Sanders and the youth vote.

The attitude here on DU is ridiculously negative toward Gen Z voters. Not everyone, of course, but a very loud bunch of people. If you haven't seen it, I can't explain why not.

As to what he said about Vermont:
1. I thought Vermont was only white people. That's what I've read here a few times.
2. So saying he is going to try to do better is somehow, now, a negative?

[ehrnst]

30. So you can't provide any examples. Got it.

As to what he said about Vermont:
1. I thought Vermont was only white people. That's what I've read here a few times.
2. So saying he is going to try to do better is somehow, now, a negative?

And we have another straw man!!! Nice try. Those examples of Sanders not doing well among POC in VT must have really hit a nerve.

You attempted to ignore the examples of what POC in VT say about Bernie, and go straight to "what Bernie said.."

Just says so much, doesn't it? Particularly in light of your comment that we should be as worried about pleasing youth to get to the polls as much as those POC...

You know that I never said that him "trying to do better" and apologizing once he was running for POTUS was a negative... but you couldn't argue with how problematic his relationship has been with POC in his very own VT, hence the straw man.

That was silly. You should know by now that trying to derail me, or get me to defend a straw man someone else invents and attacks is futile.



I simply made the point that it took a POTUS run for him to even acknowledge the Vermont social justice leaders who have expressed dissatisfaction with his representation on their issues. And apparently it didn't occur to the Sanders that Vermont racial justice leaders would feel ignored when it didn't occur to invite them to his "Gathering" at his Institute. In Vermont.

Especially when this guy got an invitation...



Maybe if he was as concerned about the issues important to POC - even those in Vermont - as he does the issues of college students, he'd get better turnout at the polls.

You're welcome.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

32. That's not a straw man.

You're really bad at fallacies, so you may want to stop trying.

My point is that it was an issue that he was made aware of and he said he would try to do better, i.e. he recognized he wasn't doing what he should. So how is that a bad thing that he 1. admitted it was a problem and 2. said he would work on it. I'm not saying it wasn't a problem. HE admitted it was a problem.

I wish Sanders would address race more than just saying class discussions cover that. Because it doesn't. It's a different issue. But from what YOU gave me, he knows it's a problem and is working on it.

[ehrnst]

34. Yes it is, and you continue to flog away at it.

So how is that a bad thing that he 1. admitted it was a problem and 2. said he would work on it. I'm not saying it wasn't a problem. HE admitted it was a problem.

Never said him admitting it was a problem was a bad thing. I pointed out that it had been a problem for a long time, and Sanders waited to admit that it was a problem until he was running for POTUS a second time (Apr 4 2018), and then still didn't even bother to invite VT racial justice leaders to "The Gathering," (December 3 2018.)

So, no, after he apologized and admitted it, he was still excluding Vermont racial justice leaders from the conversation, when this guy, of all people, was invited.



I understand that's very difficult for you to hear, and see documented.

But continuing to try to pretend I am somehow faulting him for admitting that he fell down on that, is getting more ridiculous with every post.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

40. I fully admit Sanders has issues with POC and I wish he did better.

I don't know why he doesn't because I know from his history with civil rights work that he gets it. I don't know his decision making, but I wish it would change. Clear enough?

But, getting back to my original post why do people that don't like Sanders say young people just need to suck it up and vote but don't say the same thing to POC.

And to be even more clear, my position across the board is that we need to win the votes of every single person and demographic. We aren't owed anyone's vote. We need to make sure that young, POC, old, everyone, feels like they have a reason to vote for the nominee. I don't believe that Sanders is the best for POC. One of the significant reasons I am going with Warren and not Sanders this time around. (I do know the numbers still aren't great, but I feel of the progressives, Warren is the best option left.)

[ehrnst]

43. How long ago was that civil rights activism?

Charlton Heston was also at the MLK march. And Mitch McConnell.

And if you read what the POC had to say about Bernie, then you might understand those issues that they have with him - among which was that they were being ignored....

But, getting back to my original post why do people that don't like Sanders say young people just need to suck it up and vote but don't say the same thing to POC.

Still haven't provided any links to examples. And if you lack of understanding of my posts is any indication, there is a good chance you missed their point, too, so how about those links.

And you're saying that POC are getting special treatment or attention from Democrats that people who are not POC deserve just as much.

Got it.

We aren't owed anyone's vote.

No one said that. Again - provide some examples.

Also - I don't know of any widespread voter suppression of the young people vote, but there is for POC.

So there's that.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

47. I admitted he has problems re: POC. What more do I need to say?

I'm not saying anything about "Democrats." I'm saying the arguments made on DU are not consistent. That is different. You can follow along, I'm sure.

The "we aren't owed anyone's vote" is a declaration of my thoughts on this issue. I said that. If you want an example of me saying it, read that post again. Or, here, I don't believe we are owed anyone's votes. Said it again.

I agree wholeheartedly that voter suppression of POC is a significant issue that needs to be addressed. It's horrible. I don't think that was part of the data or the claim that anyone here is making, but I agree with you.

[ehrnst]

54. Still no examples to back up your claim.

I'm saying the arguments made on DU are not consistent. That is different. You can follow along, I'm sure.

That's not providing examples of your claims. Links are your friend, not your enemy, if what you claim is accurate.

The "we aren't owed anyone's vote" is a declaration of my thoughts on this issue. I said that. If you want an example of me saying it, read that post again. Or, here, I don't believe we are owed anyone's votes. Said it again.

No one said that those weren't your thoughts on the issue. Another straw man...

[Cuthbert Allgood]

57. "No one said that those weren't your thoughts on the issue."

From your post 43:

We aren't owed anyone's vote.


No one said that. Again - provide some examples.

You made the claim that when I said that I was talking about other people. I was speaking for myself. Period. You were the one claiming I said it was what was being said here. Which, ironically, actually is a straw man argument.

[ehrnst]

95. Yes, again, no one said that those weren't your thoughts on the issue....

I was responding to this, since you seem to have lost track of the conversation:

The "we aren't owed anyone's vote" is a declaration of my thoughts on this issue. I said that. If you want an example of me saying it, read that post again. Or, here, I don't believe we are owed anyone's votes. Said it again.

Look familiar?

Also....still waiting for those examples of DU posts that support your claims of recent widespread blanket dismissals on DU of young voters as a group, of being stupid or lazy or not worth the attention of Democrats - at least as much as Democrats seem to be paying to POC...

[Hortensis]

33. I don't think highly of anyone who looks at Sanders'

lifetime record, or conversely ignores it, and manages to develop a faith-based belief that Sanders would grow immensely in office and throw off the oppositional tendencies he repeatedly promises to make an integral part of his SOP to become a good president. It's not an age thing.

Btw, I saw a pretty, charming blonde coed on TV at the caucuses happily telling an interviewer she was enthusiastically for Sanders instead of any of the others because of...get ready for it: the climate issue.



For obvious reasons, I assume she has other reasons for caucusing for Sanders, and of course also thinks climate's important since that's what popped to mind. As a parent myself, though, my mind went straight to the money her parents were spending on her tuition. If that's an example of the amount of homework she does and the level of analysis she brings to projects, they probably won't need to write many more checks. If her mom felt the same way, though, she wouldn't have her daughter's honest, unavoidable but temporary excuses of inexperience and adolescent emotional and intellectual development.

[ehrnst]

35. Yes, once again C.A. attacks a straw man when the facts become too uncomfortable. (nt)

[Cuthbert Allgood]

49. Um, you might want to look right up there

That's a pretty good example of someone dismissing a young voter just because he thinks she is a pretty young blonde who is stupid and just wants her student debt eliminated (or tuition). Just pointing out the examples as I see them.

[ehrnst]

56. Nope, not the same as dismissing young voters as a whole as you claimed.

If that's what you think dismissing young voters as a whole looks like, then it's likely you got those other posts you claim are on DU wrong as well.

Only one way to find out.

Show me some links to examples..

[Cuthbert Allgood]

58. That's one post.

It dismisses a young voter. I'll point more as they pop up.

And you really don't have a problem with that post. They assume that the pretty blonde girl is just an idiot our for free money. You're really OK with that? It's basically a walking "dumb blonde" joke.

But, OK, you can sit with that with no problem. Cool. I'll keep showing you examples. It won't take long.

[ehrnst]

61. It's mocking **a single voter,*** not dismissing youth voters as a group, as you claim.

And you really don't have a problem with that post. They assume that the pretty blonde girl is just an idiot our for free money. You're really OK with that? It's basically a walking "dumb blonde" joke.

But, OK, you can sit with that with no problem. Cool.

Red herring AND a straw man - a TWOFER! deployed in an attempt to get me on the defensive. Sorry, kid, fish ain't biting today. You're not catching on too quickly about pulling that stuff in a discussion with me. But if you really need those fallacies, maybe it's time to re-think what your point is...

I'll keep showing you examples. It won't take long.

You have yet to show a single example of a DU post, let alone many, that damns all young voters as not being worth appealing to, or that they are lazy or dumb.

So there's that.

[Hortensis]

72. No, it was a comment that she'd get kicked out for bad grades

if she didn't do her school homework as she didn't do her voter homework and if she applied the same level of analysis in school as she did to choosing a candidate.

No allusion -- except yours -- to Sanders' promise to erase people's debts if they voted for him and he won.

Btw, it's probably going to be a surprise to you, but since Gov. Insley dropped out, the candidate with the best environmental record and easily the broadest and deepest expertise is Joe Biden. For five decades, long before most people bothered to worry about climate change, Democratic Congressman Biden and then Senator Biden has been an important ally in congress for environment, air and water, conservation, energy, climate, etc. groups.

Sanders...his typical +1 vote to whatever the Democratic caucus writes.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

73. I'd probably go with Steyer.

Though I agree he isn't really viable and won't be in long. But he's the best climate candidate right now.

[Hortensis]

76. Steyer talks about it a lot, and he has some past creds to

suggest he's reasonably serious on the subject. But imo that hardly matches five decades of working with experts from many fields on technically, economically, geographically, and politically complex environment-related issues. The complexity is immense. Public health is a whole field within climate science. It's not all gas emissions. Disappearing fresh water supplies are both a separate and an inextricable disaster that are and will lead to many wars, broken economies, devastated regions right here in the U.S., and tragedies of mammoth scale.

Being president is a REAL job with a lot of work that has to get done, not a symbolic one. Too many people act as if they're choosing a candidate to make a statement about themselves and where they want the country to go. And of course in some cases to deliver a slap at people they don't like. And in a nation of over 300 million lives, that's horrifically irresponsible.

[ehrnst]

94. Voting as personal expression... It's a damn civic duty...

And certainly doesn't fall in the category of self expression... any more than parenting does.

The age of accepting only a bespoke candidate, tailored to one's user preferences will be the last age of representative democracy.

Real candidates, off the shelf candidates, are the result of compromise, mistakes (that HOPEFULLY they can admit to and learn from) and the real world. Promises of a hothouse administration where all will be pure and free of any whiff of compromise are as bogus as Trump's.

[Hortensis]

98. Very well said. People would do far better to choose their plumbers

to highlight their personal style or make an ideological statement. If they must. Bad plumbing and water damage can be undone.

[ehrnst]

96. You see? Your accusations of someone singling out this blond woman for race and gender

are unfounded. There wasn't any malice there against white women at all.

You're welcome.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

48. We can differ on how good of a President we think Sanders would be.

I would rather see Warren as the progressive in office for a lot of reasons, but somewhat what you mention.

And you story of the young voter being stupid is you making a lot of guesses about a lot of things. You might want to stop that. You don't know that her parents are paying for her college. Did she even say that she was going to college? What does her race, hair color, gender, or looks have to do with your story? That's a pretty bad optic.

[ehrnst]

64. You're trying to inply reverse racism/sexism by someone else now ?

What does her race, hair color, gender, or looks have to do with your story?

Usually I only ever hear that kind of accusatory outrage from RWers when someone describes someone in less than flattering way who is not a POC, but apparently is being discriminated against for being white and female.

And it's usually an accusation of reverse racism or race baiting.

My points about your arguments must have really landed hard....

[Cuthbert Allgood]

50. Here's a thread for you

with a link to the data that shows how Sanders did in Iowa with POC.

Just so you know I haven't forgotten about you.

[ehrnst]

66. See, that wasn't so hard, was it?

Looks like Pete and Bernie did the very same with POC voters!

Now just do the same with several posts that support your claim that young voters as a group, on DU are being called as dumb, lazy or somehow otherwise less deserving than POC voters of Democratic consideration.

[dsc]

23. because the young continually refuse to vote in huge numbers

unlike POC who have voted on parity with or even above the national average in several elections.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

24. Do they do that only when they are "motivated" or all the time?

Because it still sounds like the same argument.

[ehrnst]

31. You really have an issue with the Democratic concern about POC and how they will vote.

That's interesting... You seem to think that interest in getting a candidate who will appeal to POC - especially WOC, who are the most reliable voter base, will cause Democrats to ignore "youth?"

Or you at least want POC preferences (Bernie's smallest base) to be given the same "dismissal" by Democrats as you seem to be under the impression that concern for the white youth preferences (Bernie's biggest base) is somehow being left behind.

It sounds like you are trying to imply that there is "reverse racism" going on among Democrats.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

36. I don't.

But I find it interesting that DU seems to say that "pandering" to young voters is stupid and if they are smart they will vote and will vote for the Dem, but the same thing is not said about POC. I think what is said about the young voters is dumb. Nobody owes anyone a vote. You need to earn them. Just like with POC. People who don't like Sanders don't seem to use the same standard to both groups.

And I went nowhere near reverse racism. That, for the record, is a straw man.

[ehrnst]

39. You still haven't provided any examples of what you claim "DU seems to say"

I provided evidence to support my claims.

Still waiting on you to provide any. Including for the quantifiable claim that 'Sanders did great with POC in IA."

People who don't like Sanders don't seem to use the same standard to both groups.

Look in a mirror. That's what people who complain about being victims of 'reverse racism' say - that POC are being given some sort of "special treatment," or 'special advantage' and someone who is not a POC is actually being discriminated against...

[Cuthbert Allgood]

41. Honestly. If you haven't seen the dismissal of young voters by people who don't like Sanders

there isn't much I can do. "They never vote." "If they don't vote, they're stupid." It's all over DU.

Kind of done with your reverse racism stuff. I made things more clear in another post about 2 minutes ago. Not going to repeat it here; will gladly have that discussion there.

[ehrnst]

42. Well, then you should have no problem sharing some links then.

But you don't.

Just like you don't provide any stats to support "Bernie did great with POC in IA."

But do go on talking about how POC are getting special attention or treatment from Democrats that's not being given to a group that's not POC that is 'equally deserving."

That's really making your point.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

46. Next time I see one, I'll point it out to you. Deal?

And, back to another example of a straw man. You put "equally deserving" in quotation marks. When did I use that phrase? Because I didn't. I did say elsewhere that we need to earn each and every group's vote, but I never said that one group was or wasn't equal to another.

[ehrnst]

60. So you can't find any now that support your claim?

Those quotes were not quoting the text of your post.

They were to indicate that that turn of phrase was not mine, but an idea espoused by those who complain about POC getting "special treatment' (not your words... ) that is being denied to a group of people who not POC which are "equally deserving," as "reverse racism."

None of the quotes are your text, however, they emphasize the arguments of those who cry "reverse racism," that are similar to what you posit in your posts.

Is that clearer?

[Cuthbert Allgood]

115. Here's another one.

And it's not using one person as a metaphor for the group (which I still contend was the point of the other post).

[ehrnst]

117. Not seeing where anyone is calling them lazy. Just pointing out that they are not a bloc that

votes reliably. Not namecalling, stating the facts.

Next....

[Cuthbert Allgood]

116. Oh, look. Another one.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=488659

[ehrnst]

118. There's one person expressing frustration with their phone use, and

connecting it with lack of voting, and that they are distracted, not lazy.

Also, millennials are aged 24-39.... so that covers a wider group than "young voters."

Still not calling them lazy. And no, still doesn't indicate a trend on DU.

Keep on trying.... maybe you'll find one this week. Or next.

[treestar]

55. And the POC don't demand "inspiration"

and will walk over broken glass to vote. Standing in long lines, etc. - it's the young vote that won't do that unless they are "inspired," not the POC.

I think this time we need to make sure we have rides for people far from the polls and pizza for long lines, that kind of thing. I might even be willing to do it in a Red State - we could maybe flip one. We got D Senators and Reps in really red areas in 2018 and special elections. We need Senators from those states to flip the Senate and get Turtle or any twin that would replace out of there.

[treestar]

52. The POC don't seem to say they will stay home

if they don't get their choice of nominee. That's why they are the base.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

53. That's awesome.

That doesn't seem to be the argument that others are making, though. There is a lot of discussion about having a nominee that they will want to vote for. Which I get, but just trying to follow the arguments people are making.

[ehrnst]

97. And a party ignores its base who has been there for the party in numbers

greater than anyone else at their own peril.

[KPN]

80. +1111111

[StarfishSaver]

89. Are you serious?

It's quite the other way around. Just look in this thread.

[GemDigger]

26. If anyone does not vote, that is purely on them.

We all know what is at stake.

[Amimnoch]

38. Not just POC but people period..

While everyone else is focused on the % per candidate and delegate count, the thing that most concerns me is total turnout was close to 2016 levels.. if we're going to have any chance at all we need closer to 2008 turnout levels.

With this large wonderful pool of candidates, all (well except for Bloomberg) swarming Iowa, engaging people, and hopefully energizing people I was desperately hoping for a larger number of people showing up to caucus..

Granted it's just the first, and it's still early, but damn I'm hoping to see larger numbers going forward or it doesn't matter if we nominate the first gay man, female, or democratic socialist, or jesus Christ himself.. we'll end up with 4 more of fascist orange.

[NedBraden]

45. Of all the Democrats....which has harmed

Only one candidate has actually HARMED POC:

the wolf in sheep$ clothing........not sure why he is even being con$idered?

[Devil Child]

59. If our nominee can't get white voters out to vote we're toast

If our nominee can't get *insert demographic here* out to vote we're toast.

If voters don't turn out to vote for the nominee we're toast. If voters care to see Trump out of office and they choose to stay home on election day that's on them not the nominee.

[Mike Nelson]

62. I think People of Color...

...know how important it is to vote in 2020. They want to defeat the White Supremacist. I believe POC will vote enthusiastically for the Democratic nominee.

[JustAnotherGen]

65. POC are not a monolith

Black Americans, LatinX Americans, Asian Americans. . . .


Black Americans are the key vote here in certain states (I fall in this category). I think Trump v. Bloomberg - the Russkies can't use the men wrongly imprisoned in the 'Central Park 5' Case against Bloomberg (who kept fighting their case because he thought the could win).

They also can't use his stop and frisk policy against him.


I'll say it again though -

What do black people have to lose by voting for ANY of the Candidates in a GENERAL election? Can't get any worse than it is now.

Asians and LatinX community members may feel quite differently than we do.

[Politicub]

67. From a policy perspective, Buttigieg outranks all of the remaining nominees.

Yes, he needs to work hard to earn the trust of the AA community.

He is working tirelessly to do this. His Douglass plan is ahead of all of the others’ proposals because he seeks to dismantle structural barriers to equality, change the power structure in America (including the judiciary), and provide reparations and restorative justice in all its forms.

Pete has already committed to creating a commission to propose reparations policies to Congress. The Douglass Plan, which is a complement to any potential reparations proposals, aims to provide the scale and scope necessary for true nationwide restorative justice. Its policies touch every facet of American life, and like the values animating Pete’s campaign, reflect the principles of Freedom, Security, and Democracy.
https://peteforamerica.com/policies/douglass-plan/

He goes beyond toothless messages about equality. Buttigieg proposal is radical and audacious in scope, and will get more attention as the primary season progresses.

His fresh perspective shines through in his proposals. His point of view about power structures and how to reform them is postmodern. This is where age matters: he has been steeped in scholarship and critical theory that some of the other people running may not have been exposed to. Warren is also a postmodernist as is Stacey Abrams.

[Fix The Stupid]

68. "reparations"??? , Yeah, you go with that...say hello to 4 more years of trump.

rofl:

[Politicub]

69. Why?

And I don’t think the idea of restorative justice is funny at all.

[Fiendish Thingy]

71. Bernie increased his share of POC in Iowa from 34% in 2016 to 43%

538 now gives him the edge to win Alabama.

[Bucky]

74. Agree 100%

There are two critical components to getting a strong Democratic win. Exciting the youth vote and the POC vote. The only win with a candidate who brings out both communities in large numbers.

Stacey Abrams is a person making this argument the strongest and loudest, by the way.

[Autumn]

75. You think that we POC will sit out the election because the one we like isn't the nominee?

That's a rather stupid absurd reason to pick a nominee. If any do sit it out because their horse didn't come in, after everything Trump has done, then that's on them.

[DonCoquixote]

77. the people that need to be on the speed dial of any Dem nominee

Cory Booker, Kama Harris, Stacey Abrams, to name a few. Two whote guys on the ticket will just say "we take black votes for Granted" and yes, that means no Pete.

[KPN]

78. Isn't that also on POC?

Funny how this seems to work for some around here. It's the young and left who are responsible for not voting, but not POC? Really?

I don't know. Is it lack of consistency or just hypocrisy?

[Fix The Stupid]

86. Brave post...good luck. The pitchforks are coming... n/t

[R B Garr]

85. Yes, the irony is that both of them don't have great numbers with POC.

But this is the problem with small, lily-white states going first as has been discussed at length. How Iowa or New Hampshire votes matters none to more diverse states.

My husband was joking the other day -- now this crap again with New Hampshire and joked it's about as big as Long Beach and Long Beach should go first. (we're in California).

[SaschaHM]

91. A response to the if you can't get "white voters out" people.

Our primary process specifically weeds out candidates who can't get the white vote. If you're not supported by white voters, you're not making it out of Iowa. The same can't be said about black voters. Hell, look at what's happening to Biden. He has 50% of the black vote nationwide and the media and folks here are gleefully gloating about his downfall.

There are more than enough states w/ black and white populations closer to the balance of Democratic party that should go first. The first two momentum setting contests shouldn't be winnable by folks w/ close to 0% in any demographic.

We can't continue to enforce a calendar that ignores key elements of our base in the first momentum/media setting contests because it benefits candidates we may like. This isn't a shot at Mayor Pete or Senator Klobuchar, but if you're polling sub 3% with AA voters after a year of campaigning and debates, you shouldn't be rewarded for your limited white appeal during the first 2 contests of the year. You shouldn't be in contention to win them or two significantly affect the outcome.

[Gothmog]

99. sanders problems are not going to go away

Link to tweet

[radical noodle]

101. I agree

Pete has to talk more about his plans that will affect POC. Our base is POC, we can't leave them behind. Ever.

[Gothmog]

102. For this thread

Link to tweet

[Tiggeroshii]

104. Huh?

Bernie probably won Iowa likley by getting 90% of the Hispanic vote in Satellite caucuses. Yes. He can turn out people of color, and his frontrunner status is largely based on his ability to do that.

[evertonfc]

105. I can't imagine POC

not voting in this election. I mean, why would they not

[emmaverybo]

109. Bernie and Pete are not winning the primary without AA support. Shame on those who don't care

if that support is grudging, a forced choice. Neither Bernie nor Pete should be our nominee. Neither have cultivated relationships with AA communities or leaders—not on their radar.

[redstateblues]

112. They didn't come out for Hillary in the numbers she needed

[Ferrets are Cool]

108. Who would that be?

[demofan40]

110. People conviently forget that Hillary was the POC choice in Febuary 2008

Before Obama started build a groundswell of support. And LONG before Biden was even on the radar as a potential VP pick.

If we elected winners before the primaries went under way, Hillary would have been President in 2008. Who knows if Obama would have been elected, and who even knows if Biden would have gotten anywhere near a VP slot.

Let the process play itself out please. No one wants a coronation.

[Scurrilous]

111. Small sampling but Wow.

Link to tweet

[ForEverGlades]

119. Looks accurate actually

Hard for me to imagine Pete getting any kind of turnout from POC here in FL.
For a variety of reasons.
Many posts on this thread say it's unimaginable that POC just won't vote.
But with a choice of Pete & Trump?
Start imagining it.

[Scurrilous]

120. I'm hoping Pete kneecaps Bernie in NH and then Biden muddles through Nevada then to S. Carolina.

I looked at polls this morning and Biden is doing great in the South. Get past the next two, endure the shots from the media who have it in for him, and get South. Sanders and Buttigieg won't do good down here. At all. Florida is solid. Neither have a chance. Bloomberg is catching up with Sanders in fact.

I'm in Miami BTW.

[ForEverGlades]

122. Could happen, and

doubt Pete's gonna do much too.
Agree that Pete and Bernie have an uphill battle down here for sure, though.
I'm a bit to the north of you close to Lake O.
(Yeah, know it has a bad reputation, but the FWC says there are over 20,000 gators in it. That many gators can't be wrong. Or can they?)

[Scurrilous]

123. They've been there since forever.

What better endorsement for the area than that.

[Peacetrain]

121. Amen to that!!

[Gothmog]

124. Neither sanders nor Mayor Pete will be able to turnout this block

[Gothmog]

125. From AMJOY

Link to tweet

[kacekwl]

126. POC need to just like everyone else choose

trump and Barr and McConnell or make another choice. This election is too important to sit it out for any reason. For all people purity tests be damned.

[Laelth]

127. Too many Democrats stayed home in 2016.

That's how Trump won. Everyone was convinced that Hilary would win easily. I doubt that Democrats will make the same mistake again.

-Laelth

[Gothmog]

129. For this thread

Link to tweet

?s=20

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

130. Your basing this on Iowa and New Hampshire

Let's see how things are after Super Tuesday.