The Problem With Bernie Is That I Am A Proud Democrat...

[TomCADem]

...and Bernie has built his career around running against Democrats and pushing a false equivalency between Republicans and Democrats:

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/01/17/trumps-racist-demagoguery-only-works-says-sanders-because-too-many-americans-feel

"How did Trump become president?" Sanders said. "I think it speaks to something that I talk about a lot and that is the fact that...tens and tens of millions of Americans feel that the political establishment, Republican and Democrat, have failed them. Maybe the New York Times has failed them, too."

I disagree with that. Yet, Bernie has pushed this lie. Yet, if he wins, I will have to vote for a person who has spent his career trying to destroy a movement and a party that I have believed in for his personal political benefit and has often agreed with adopted Republican talking points attack on Democrats as being "elitists" or supporting "open borders."

I don't like Bernie's anti-immigrant past, including his 2007 vote against immigration reform. I don't like Bernie's pro-Russia votes against Russian election sanctions and the Magnitsky Act. I don't like Bernie's pro-gun votes against the Brady Bill and for gun maker immunity. I think Bernie is hypocritical in his attacks against corruption, nepotism, and self-dealing when he keeps family members on the payroll of both his campaign and his private foundation.

So, aside from Tulsi Gabbard, I would support most any other candidate over Bernie. Yet, that is the difference with Bernie. Bernie is running against the Democratic Party while his opponents are running to beat Trump. Thus, while this should be a referendum on Trump, Bernie is trying his best to undercut this message and cast blame on the Democratic Party as well, which is part of the reason why Bernie has getting support from Republicans.

[TomCADem]

2. If We Can't Defend the Democratic Party on DU

Then what is the point?

[OneMoreCupOfCoffee]

18. I'm with you.

[LongtimeAZDem]

24. +∞

[Cha]

53. +1!!!

[Tarheel_Dem]

70. +1000

[krissey]

3. Correct. Yes.

[TomCADem]

4. The Attacks on Warren Are Indicative of the Tone of Bernie's Campaign

It is not about ideas. Otherwise, Bernie supporters should be at the minimum respectful of Warren. Instead, folks like Nina Turner, Michael Moore and Cornel West cheer on a campaign of political arson designed to elevate Bernie by trying to burn the Democratic party around him. Issuing talking points that Joe Biden is corrupt in the midst of the impeachment trial?

[UniteFightBack]

7. +1000

[emmaverybo]

38. My dear lordie. I agree and marvel at your marvelous manner of expressing what I feel--and what

many of us believe to be true. Yes, I am bitter about Bernie’s tactics.

[ehrnst]

44. Amen. (nt)

[SMC22307]

5. That's nice. But you'll still vote for him should he win the nomination, correct?

Same with anyone in this thread who chimes in.

[UniteFightBack]

8. Yeah that's what we want ....most people holding their noses to vote for him. Sorry but anybody

is better than him. Anybody.

[SMC22307]

10. But you'll still vote for him should he win the nomination, correct?

I mean, holding one's nose to vote for a particular candidate isn't original to Sanders.

[UniteFightBack]

12. I guess I would have to but I'll do everything in my power to make sure he is not the nominee.

And no I've never held my nose to vote for ANY DEMOCRAT....have you?

[SMC22307]

13. That's fine. Just as long as you vote for him if it comes to that.

We all need to vote for whomever has the D behind his or her name. I can't say that I have held my nose for a Dem, but I know others who have.

[OneMoreCupOfCoffee]

19. Never in my life has voting for a Democrat filled me with dread. Never.

I've voted with hope and enthusiasm.

[TomCADem]

9. Yes. Like A Person Who Is Bullied But Depends on Their Tormenter...

...I will do so. I am sure Elizabeth Warren supporters will suck it up and vote for Bernie even as his supporters chant "F*&k Warren." I also expect Biden supporters to fall into line even as Bernie's campaign issues talking points that Biden is corrupt.

Why? Because unlike Bernie or Cornell West or Nina Turner, I love my country, and I am not going to let my disdain for Bernie Sanders prevent me from doing what needs to be done. Is that fair? No, but what can you do? You just have to suck it up and smile.

[SMC22307]

11. Great.

I'll be voting for whomever has the D behind his or her name, tuning out the pundits throughout this entire miserable process.

[TomCADem]

14. What if Bernie Does What He Did In Vermont...

...and immediately disavows that he is a Democrat right after securing the nomination? I can see the attacks ads now. "Even Bernie can barely stand being affiliated with Democrats and Nancy Pelosi!"

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/21/bernie-sanders-democrat-independent-vermont-601844

Sanders to run as a Democrat — but not accept nomination

Bernie Sanders is running for the Democratic nomination in Vermont — but he won’t accept it if he wins.

The famously independent senator, who briefly joined the Democratic Party to run in the 2016 New Hampshire presidential primary only to un-enroll later, officially announced Monday that he would seek a third term in the Senate this fall. He also said that he’ll pull the same maneuver that he did in his 2006 and 2012 Senate races: Running as a Democrat, declining the nomination when he wins and then running as an independent.

The move makes it virtually impossible for another Democrat to seek the party’s nod. And it allows Sanders to loom large in the party primary in August, but still preserve his independence.

But the move also comes at a time when Sanders supporters are pushing for changes to the presidential nominating process as part of the Democratic National Committee unity reform commission. One priority is to open up the party’s primaries to voters who aren’t registered as Democrats.

[SMC22307]

15. I won't like it, but I'll still vote for him in November.

And I'll try to convince everyone I know to do the same. And knock on doors and try to get people I don't know to do the same. Trump is dangerous and has got to go.

[TomCADem]

16. And That Puts You Far Ahead of Folks Like Cornell West, Nina Turner, Briahna Joy Gray...

...and other Bernie campaign supporters who advocated against supporting the Democratic nominee.

[SMC22307]

17. I don't let people like that -- or any pundits, surrogates, whomever --

influence my vote. It's truly depressing to me that so many do.

[octoberlib]

46. Bernie doesn't need to disavow it because he's

not a Democrat. He filed to run as a Senator for Vermont as an Independent.

[Demsrule86]

20. It wont come to that...if Biden falters, and I think Iowa is meaningless than

we vote for Bloomberg. But i still believe Biden can win Both Biden and Bloomberg can beat Trump. Sanders won't. He would lose due to his poor AA support, and he has run too far left in the primary. We need to throw our support behind either Biden or Bloomberg at some point.

[LongtimeAZDem]

26. Yep; that sums it up pretty well.

[emmaverybo]

39. This question always insinuates that people who don't support Sanders in the primary are

somehow, and ironically, secret traitors to the party.

NOT ONE DU-er has said he/she/they won’t vote Bernie to stop Trump. So knock off this question. Last time I will answer it. Not living in a communist country. Stop with the interrogation and pledge of allegiance, please.

[SMC22307]

54. Nope, keeping up the question, and others as well.

The attacks on Sanders are relentless. I'm very curious as to how some members of this site will go from absolutely trashing him to advocating for him should he win the nomination. Will there be phone-banking, canvassing, driving voters to the polls, etc.?

Calm down, no one's demanding that you wear a pledge pin.

[emmaverybo]

56. Raising the bar now. Previously, question has been will you vote for...now it's will you work

for him to get elected. Don’t tell me to calm down! That really gets me angry. LOL.

Question is obnoxious. Almost all the criticism, Bernie or others, has the coda “but will vote for him in the GE.” You want some other assurance or making some point? Just be transparent, then.

[Demsrule86]

48. Sure everyone here will, but we can't speak to those on social media who are vowing not to do so...

This is why I will choose Bloomberg if Biden falters and I still think he has a good chance when the primaries arrive at Ohio. The AA vote in particular worries me.

[SMC22307]

55. Great. Social media is toxic, who knows what's legit and what's not.

I'm just ready for the primaries to be OVER so we can all rally behind one candidate.

[Demsrule86]

59. I think no matter who wins...there will be some (not here) who won't vote for the nominee.

And that is the difference between us and the GOP and right leaning types...they vote for policy...not the person. This is why they win and we lose. If we want to ever get anything done, we need to vote blue in all elections no matter what. The right votes for the candidate that has the policy that is closest to what they want. They don't hold out for specific policy like MFA.

The best we can do is vote for the person who will carry the votes from states we need...I like Biden and am happy to vote for him...but if I didn't think he could carry blue wall states, I would pick another candidate. We must defeat Trump. Look what he did last night-firing those who testified against him. If he is re-elected he will go after prominent Democrats with Barr's help...we could see Pres. Obama and Hillary Clinton really locked up. They could go after others too like Kerry ,Biden or Nancy Pelosi.

[Cha]

6. Thank you for this..

[Piratedog]

21. I can't vote for sanders in primary. Not a Democrat nm

[Tess49]

32. Same here.

[NanceGreggs]

22. Agree 1,000% n/t

[Gothmog]

23. I am also a proud member of the Democratic Party

[OliverQ]

25. So party over country?

[Wounded Bear]

27. Not what he said at all...

[TomCADem]

28. You Should Ask Bernie, Cornell West, Nina Turner, Briahna Joy Gray...

...I will vote for Bernie if his the Democratic nominee even though his campaign makes it a point to emphasize that Bernie's supporters may not support any nominee other than Bernie.

That is the problem I have with Bernie. Bernie repeatedly elevates himself by attacking and denigrating his would be allies. It is not merely party over country, it is ego over country.

[redstatebluegirl]

52. I think Bernie relishes having supporters that will only support him and nobody else.

[radical noodle]

29. What in his post

makes you ask that question? He is a proud Democrat. Democrats do what's best for the country. Don't you?

[OliverQ]

31. He says he's more concerned about who supports than party

than who can beat Trump. I don't care if Bernie isn't a Democrat. If he can win, that's all that matters.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

34. My eyes are not what they used to be ...

Could you show me, with a direct quote, where "[h]e says he's more concerned about who supports than party than who can beat Trump"?

[emmaverybo]

40. Those of us who have not dug into the fairy dust don't believe Bernie can win the GE. But if he

does win the nomination, we will vote for him against Trump, praying to DOG that he wins. Many
will work their tushes off to try to effect his win.

Again, another veiled accusation against non-supporters that they will facilitate a Trump win—somehow, by not believing in Bernie, I guess.

[Happy Hoosier]

50. I think the Democratic Party is GOOD for the country.

Do you not?

[Demsrule86]

60. If you support the Democratic Party, you are supporting the country. There has never been a case

where the Democrats did something that harmed the country period...so yeah I put Party and Country first at the same time.

[amuse bouche]

30. I agree with you

[SunSeeker]

33. K & R

[NotHardly]

35. For that and plenty more reasons Bernie is not the guy for me... ever.

[Scurrilous]

36. Yep.

I use that example a lot. It's election year. We're trying to hold onto the House and trying to get more Senate seats and that godlike amazing person takes a dump on the Democratic party with no prompting. Just shits all over all our candidates because he's a bitter [redacted] who never had any friends and [redacted] [redacted] the poor [redacted] who never harmed a soul. [redacted] him and his [redacted] [redacted] [redacted]. I don't care for him at all.

Great post BTW.

He's going to save the world. Seriously. Him? Late bloomer I guess.

.

Feel the compassion. Every time I show this to a Hispanic person in Miami I win a vote for Biden.

[emmaverybo]

37. Bravo. I will go down fighting against a Bernie primary win and then hold my nose and vote for

Last edited Sat Feb 8, 2020, 03:24 PM - Edit history (1)

him in the GE, if the worst happens. Until then I am, for all the reasons you develop so well, a Never-Sanders.

[Demsrule86]

61. +1000000

I will fight for a nominee (Biden) who will win a general and send Trump packing.

[KT2000]

41. Agree

I won't participate in juries having to do with insults for Sanders. For me, the rule against slamming Democrats does not include Sanders because he is only a Democrat when he runs for office, otherwise he states that he is not and then criticizes Democrats.

I remember when President Carter ran as an outsider. Congress should have been behind him but they never forgot his campaign was against the establishment. This was explained to our County Democratic Org. by a senior Democratic Congressman. Sanders would find himself in the same situation as he does not play well with others - he is a lone wolf.

[flotsam]

42. "I disagree with that. Yet, Bernie has pushed this lie."

If you see no problem with that declaration, and that disagreeing makes it a lie???

[R B Garr]

45. Exactly, thank you. The dishonesty is despicable and

dishonorable. Everything else you said — the hypocrisy, everything. Very well said.

I love your posts. They always summarize things perfectly.

[thesquanderer]

47. How do you feel about Bloomberg, another "Democrat of convenience"? (n/t)

[MH1]

49. I agree strongly with the poster so will answer:

Bloomberg is worst, after Gabbard and Sanders.

Gabbard: absolute worst, for many reasons
Sanders: 2nd worst, as described in the OP
Bloomberg: 3rd worst, for probably all the reasons you would give.

Unless I find out more damning info about some other candidates. My pick for 3rd worst could change. But 1st and 2nd worst, not likely.

[redstatebluegirl]

51. Thank you so much for saying what I have been feeling.

[betsuni]

57. K&R

[aikoaiko]

58. So what do you make of all the Democrats who vote for Bernie?

Are they not good enough Democrats for you?

[Demsrule86]

62. One's candidate doesn't always win...we have all been asked will we vote for Sanders should he be

the nominee. In every case, we have responded in the affirmative. Thus if a different candidate is nominated Sanders voters should do the same. In every election, once the primary is over, Democrats and left leaning voters must vote for the nominee-no message voting or third party voting period if we want to win and achieve anything worthwhile...and not just in presidential elections either...we must do better during midterms.

[aikoaiko]

64. Of course, but that's not what I'm talking about.

The OP talks about being a proud Democrat and opposing Bernie.

So I wonder what he thinks about all these other Democrats who are voting for Bernie in primaries -- 2016 and 2020.

[Demsrule86]

65. The fact that Sanders is not a Democrat bothers me too...I find it insulting to our party. I do.

And he says awful stuff about the party and Democrats in general. But that being said should he win the nomination, I would vote for him. I don't think he wins though. I sincerely hope I am wrong if he is the nominee...

[Kentonio]

63. Personally I'm tired of this attitude that the party is always right.

We’ve made mistakes. Plenty of them. The number of people identifying as Democrats shows that, not to mention the elections we’ve lost that we should have clearly won. We either recognize our mistakes, accept our responsibility and improve, or we let down the people who need us to represent them in the face of the evil coming from the GOP.

This isn’t about people’s hurt feelings, this is about millions of people who might die due to a lack of decent affordable healthcare, or who can barely feed their children. Until the day comes when we’re winning every election, we should welcome criticism, listen to it carefully and use it when we can to become better. And if that day ever does come, we should listen even harder to ensure we stay on top.

[TomCADem]

67. Bernie Is Destructive In That He Pushes a False Equivalency...

...that undermines efforts to build a political movement. Bernie elevates himself above all others. The party is not monolithic. You have everyone from Joe Manchin in West Virginia to AOC in New York. It is a big tent. Yet, most Democrats support unions, want to combat climate change, support gun control, want to expand access to health care, etc. There is a huge difference between Democrats and Republicans. Presumably, Bernie understands that, otherwise, why does repeatedly run and caucus with Democrats? You would think that he should be supportive of his would be allies?

Yet, Bernie repeatedly says stuff like this:

"How did Trump become president?" Sanders said. "I think it speaks to something that I talk about a lot and that is the fact that...tens and tens of millions of Americans feel that the political establishment, Republican and Democrat, have failed them. Maybe the New York Times has failed them, too."

Bernie says this to elevate himself and he surrounds himself with supporters who have an axe to grind against the Democratic party want to tear it down. Rather than fight Republicans, Bernie and his supporters gin up attacks on Democrats, which are aided by Republicans and Russian trolls. Bernie paints himself as being outside of the "political establishment" even though he has been a member of Congress forever.

Bernie supporters never have a good answer for why Russia and Republicans are repeatedly supporting folks like Bernie and Tulsi. Indeed, this is why it sometimes seems that Bernie's campaign actually welcomes this outside interference.

It is a very toxic message that is built around a culture of personality, rather than a movement and coalition built around shared ideals, which reminds me of the culture of personality that surrounds Trump.

[Kentonio]

68. Shared ideas?

This would be from the people who’ve spent the last five years talking about unicorns and ‘free stuff’ and how Bernie is a horrible divisive figure? You see the irony in spitting on someone and their supporters for years and then accusing them of being the divisive ones I take it?

[TomCADem]

69. Cornel West to Activists, Immigrants: Let's Dump The Democratic Party (2017)

If You Want To Show Other Candidates or Their Surrogates Attacking The Democratic Party, then please do so to show just how everyone else is divisive. If you call spitting on someone, referring to facts, then so be it. Bernie has surrounded himself with surrogates who have actively advocated that people vote for Jill Stein during the 2016 election.

If that is not divisive, I am not sure what is? It is almost Trump like in how Bernie's campaign projects its own behavior on to others. But, aside from Tulsi Gabbard, I do not see any other campaign that relies so much on tearing down the Democratic party in order to elevate Bernie. That is my definition of being divisive.

https://www.colorlines.com/articles/cornel-west-activists-immigrants-lets-dump-democratic-party

Professor and author Dr. Cornel West has a message for people who identify themselves as political and social progressives: “The neoliberal vision of the Democratic party has run its course.”

In an essay published by The Guardian today (April 24), West argues that the first 100 days of President Donald Trump’s term in office makes it clear that the Democratic party is not capable of leading progressives in a time when the GOP dominates the American political landscape.

* * *
A group of former Bernie Sanders staffers have come together to convince Sanders to head a new “people’s party,” and West makes an appeal to immigrants, activists and progressive leaders to join the ranks:

And if a class-conscious multi-racial party attuned to anti-sexist, anti-homophobic and anti-militaristic issues and grounded in ecological commitments can reconfigure our citizenship, maybe our decaying democracy has a chance. And if brother Bernie Sanders decides to join us—with many others, including sister Jill Stein and activists from Black Lives Matter and Brown immigrant groups and Standing Rock freedom fighters and betrayed working people—we may build something for the near future after Trump implodes.

[Cha]

66. That's one..