Bernie draws more Independents, so...

[Bonobo]

How do people figure he will do so disastrously in the GE unless they are expecting that Democratic voters will not vote for him?

The whole thing is so ironic since it is that unwillingness to support the Dem candidate that he and his supporters are most frequently attacked for.

[SidDithers]

1. ...

Sid

[betsuni]

2. ...

[SidDithers]

4. Look who's back, eh?...

Sid

[betsuni]

5. I know...

[Squinch]

12. Oy.

[Kentonio]

3. Well..

Depending on which DU poster you listen to, Bernie can't get votes from..

AA voters
Latino voters
Independents
Hillary supporters
Urban voters
Rural voters
Rust belt voters
Senior voters

I'm probably forgetting some, but basically if you believed everything you read here the Senator's entire voting base would be six white people in Vermont passing around a copy of Mao's Red Book.

[redgreenandblue]

6. It doesn't make sense and it's not supposed to.

The key to understanding anti-Bernie tripe is to realize that very little of it is good-faith arguments. They're just throwing shit on the wall to see what sticks. It's been that way since 2016.

The reason why they hate Bernie is that he isn't part of the "in group", cannot be bought, and will probably make life uncomfortable for some people with money.

[Bonobo]

7. That's probably why, instead of substantive comments...

I seem to be earning only juvenile emoticons.

[we can do it]

18. 😹

[LanternWaste]

22. The oppression is so righteous.

But yeah... we earn what we earn.

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

8. I'm still waiting on logical "how does Bernie pay for it"

Answers to all his grand visions healthcare for all being first on list

All I ever see is it's a movement, hell Bernie doesn't even know how he's going to pay for it.

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

11. See

No logical answer just a "what about"

[Cuthbert Allgood]

29. That's not a "what about" answer. It's specific.

The same way we paid for the very expensive war that Joe voted for. Nobody asks how we are going to pay for war and war toys that cost as much and more than health care.

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

31. And....

Who will work with him to get that done?

[Cuthbert Allgood]

32. Let's assume the Senate stays as it is.

What will any Dem President be able to get done?

[ehrnst]

13. You know, some people voted to pay for military action in Iraq more than one time...

In 1998 Sanders voted in favor of the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, which said: "It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime."

Later that same year, Sanders also backed a resolution that stated: "Congress reaffirms that it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime."

Sanders also voted for the 2001 Authorization Unilateral Military Force Against Terrorists (AUMF), which pretty much allowed Bush to wage war wherever he wanted.

Authorization for Use of Military Force - Authorizes the President to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations, or persons.
States that this Act is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of the War Powers Resolution.

[ehrnst]

14. You mean get the GOP to write a resolution to take to the UN that would ask them to pay for it?

And threaten to pay for it if they don't?

Hadn't heard that one...

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

19. I did put in logical on my question

Would Bernie if elected POTUS actually be more of a lame duck on inauguration?

To much of a stretch?

[ehrnst]

20. The vast majority of other nations with UHC don't use single payer to get there.

They use various hybrid systems with multiple payers, and outsourcing - their systems resemble the ACA more than Single Payer.

Ask them.

[ehrnst]

24. No, I didn't say that they "had the ACA" I said that the vast majority has hybrid systems with

multiple payers.

Is that clearer? Read my post again if you didn't get that the first time.

There are many, many, many issues working against single payer in the U.S. and the vast majority of other countries with UHC have determined this for themselves as well. They have built custom systems over several decades, because there is no one size fits all - there is the balance of urban/rural populations, the size of the population, etc.

So, no, single payer is not the only way to get to UHC, it's actually rare in terms of how other countries get there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care

And none of them got what they have today, starting with the baked in system that we have. And if they did start today, from what we have, they certainly could not get what they have now in 20 years, let alone two, as Sanders promises in his MFA.

Expanding on the ACA is the best shot we have. It would be shooting ourselves in the foot to throw it away and start again.

[ehrnst]

26. Incremental change is the only way to make a change that huge without disrupting

health care delivery.

Incremental implementation is the main reason that the ACA is still intact, and didn't disrupt health care delivery.

You don't change over the something that mammoth, that is 19% of our GDP, in 2 years, without major economic and health care delivery consequences. That's just logic.

Think about it, you don't repave all the streets in a city in a week, because you know it will cost more, and create major disruption. You do it incrementally even if it takes longer.

That disruption would give the GOP all the ammunition they would need to kill it. Even if we could get it past the House and Senate.

And they wouldn't even need to try that hard. If the 2010 SCOTUS struck down the requirement that states expand Medicaid as per the ACA, how do you think that a 2021 SCOTUS would rule about a requirement that states participate in an expansion of medicare?

Believe me, there will need to be state participation in the administration of it. Canada's system is primarily administered at the province level, like Medicaid, and not at the federal level like Medicare.

There is an old saying about projects - Cheap, Fast or Good? Pick two. Be very wary of someone who promises all three in a huge undertaking.

You tweak as you go, that's the responsible way to upgrade or retool something as vital as health care delivery.

[whistler162]

9. One word Berniebots

the gift that keeps on giving us Trump!

[ehrnst]

15. Perhaps you should direct that question to the GOP and Russia.

They have been HUGE supporters of his nomination.

I can't imagine it's because they think he will do well in the GE against the GOP candidate, do you?

Let us know what they say.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/02/04/team-that-rigged-gop-primaries-accuses-democrats-rigging-iowa-against-sanders/

https://www.businessinsider.com/gop-claim-pelosi-intentionally-helping-biden-and-hurting-bernie-sanders-2020-1

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/14/us/politics/trump-sanders-bloomberg-2020.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/17/indictment-russians-also-tried-help-bernie-sanders-jill-stein-presidential-campaigns/348051002/

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/4/20/18508880/karl-rove-bernie-sanders-could-beat-donald-trump-in-2020

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/07/bernie-sanders-republican-senate-1307296

https://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/01/20/bernie-sanders-gets-some-outside-help-he-didnt-ask-for/

[Desert grandma]

33. This thought is frightening to me.

It seems obvious to me that the Sanders campaign is getting support from Russia. My impression of many Sanders supporters is that they are as fanatic on the left in some ways as right wing nut jobs are on the right. Putin believes that Sanders would be the easiest opponent for the Orange Maggot to defeat. Therefore it would not surprise me one bit if the GOP would encourage this interference. They have tried all kids of dirty tricks. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[NYMinute]

16. Looks like JPR people are coming back

[betsuni]

21. Yes.

[still_one]

27. no doubt about it

[TexasTowelie]

28. It's a movement. nt

[sheshe2]

34. I will not say what kind.nt

[MrsCoffee]

30. How very unfortunate.

Must be fishing season.