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redqueen

(115,096 posts)
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 12:45 PM Feb 2020

What's wrong with tuition-free college?

Last edited Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:45 PM - Edit history (2)

Fewer than 60% of college students graduate.

Over 40% of those who do graduate are under-employed.

Yang's plan to offer free or nearly free community college and trade school makes so much more sense.
https://www.yang2020.com/policies/close-skills-gap-community-college


Edit: since the wording was so distracting I edited it.

The point is, forking out billions to pay for something that many don't even use is maybe not the best plan?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
59 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
What's wrong with tuition-free college? (Original Post) redqueen Feb 2020 OP
Nothing is wrong with that Rider3 Feb 2020 #1
'Murica HerbChestnut Feb 2020 #3
So we should fork out tens of billions redqueen Feb 2020 #10
If a high school student has great grades they can do two grades of college in high school for free samnsara Feb 2020 #2
I don't think the OP squirecam Feb 2020 #5
Why should only the top students have access to publicly funded community college? nt pnwmom Feb 2020 #8
In state Community college squirecam Feb 2020 #9
Of course. But it's a start. Ending state public education with 12th grade is arbitrary. pnwmom Feb 2020 #14
I think all the candidates squirecam Feb 2020 #20
That is what I crafted for my daughters exboyfil Feb 2020 #45
There are some underpants Feb 2020 #4
Is Bernie or Warren proposing everyone go to one of those? redqueen Feb 2020 #11
Someone wants to have to pay for it. Otherwise no problem. nt jmg257 Feb 2020 #6
How did school get to be so expensive? Walleye Feb 2020 #7
Severe budget cuts in Federal AND State funding reduced college funding. SharonAnn Feb 2020 #16
I understand why the red states cut state funding, but why did the blue states? MichMan Feb 2020 #52
How expensive would it be if students & parents could go anywhere they wanted MichMan Feb 2020 #51
Opposition to almost every proposal that benefits the many over the few is based on irrational... JoeOtterbein Feb 2020 #12
This is a bad take squirecam Feb 2020 #13
aka a mindset of scarcity - but I'm not talking about the reason Warren's and Sanders' proposals redqueen Feb 2020 #15
There's no such thing as "free" anything. scheming daemons Feb 2020 #17
Yes. I posted this with the assumption that everyone here redqueen Feb 2020 #19
Some are. Some arent squirecam Feb 2020 #21
Most are. No real reason to debase the conversation to assuage the lowest common denominators. LanternWaste Feb 2020 #29
I'd bet even the slowest mind easily infers that it's sponsored and paid for by taxes. LanternWaste Feb 2020 #28
So let's hear which taxes. I'm all for raising certain taxes. scheming daemons Feb 2020 #33
It undermines the privileges of the privileged Ghost Dog Feb 2020 #18
Are you trying to make a fat joke? squirecam Feb 2020 #23
I assumed it was slang for stupid. redqueen Feb 2020 #27
Yep. Thick as two short planks, Ghost Dog Feb 2020 #31
Maybe angry is only an Irish slang usage? redqueen Feb 2020 #37
Well now, I never came across that usage, to be sure, Ghost Dog Feb 2020 #41
Maybe it's just the one area of Ireland redqueen Feb 2020 #42
Such diversity (and diversion) is surely healthy. Ghost Dog Feb 2020 #43
It can also mean "close" or "loyal": "Thick as thieves" JustABozoOnThisBus Feb 2020 #59
It needs to be framed correctly. You don't just go say free college because it does need to be paid UniteFightBack Feb 2020 #22
Calling it free ibegurpard Feb 2020 #24
Not a damn thing. Magoo48 Feb 2020 #25
My state and city have gone a long way to addressing that frazzled Feb 2020 #26
See, this makes sense. Really good points here. redqueen Feb 2020 #30
Is it just the University of Illinois exboyfil Feb 2020 #44
I think it's just Champagne-Urbana frazzled Feb 2020 #48
Absolutely not intended exboyfil Feb 2020 #49
Yes, good points frazzled Feb 2020 #50
Arent they just transferring the costs to those making over the threshold? MichMan Feb 2020 #53
It went up 1.8%, for the first time in 6 years frazzled Feb 2020 #56
NOTHING IS FREE! democratisphere Feb 2020 #32
Not standing for something is what loses elections MoonlitKnight Feb 2020 #36
THIS FREE craziness will alienate a huge majority of voters. democratisphere Feb 2020 #38
It's a top line tax reduction MoonlitKnight Feb 2020 #39
Klobuchar's or Yang's proposals make a tremendous amount of sense. judeling Feb 2020 #34
The framing/naming of it 'free' is the silly part ... mr_lebowski Feb 2020 #35
Definitely need to reframe and rephrase these proposals MoonlitKnight Feb 2020 #40
Excellent suggestions. I hope the respective campaigns start implementing them. nt Doremus Feb 2020 #47
I'd be okay with that. Doremus Feb 2020 #46
Why is no one ever addressing why college costs so much and how to make it affordable? MichMan Feb 2020 #54
very valid point ibegurpard Feb 2020 #55
Or maybe just eliminate the interest? I know that would be a huge help to me in paying off my loans. Luciferous Feb 2020 #57
All for it. Do it fast... Happy Hoosier Feb 2020 #58
 

Rider3

(919 posts)
1. Nothing is wrong with that
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 12:50 PM
Feb 2020

I believe education should be free, just like healthcare should be. It's the greed and ignorance of others that's preventing us from getting these programs. I'd rather give a chunk of my pay to ensure that I get all my healthcare and education. Right now, I'm paying off HUGE sums of school debt, as well as medical debt when my husband nearly got killed last March in a freak motorcycle accident. It only takes 1 second, and your life can change. Mine did. I'll never get out of debt between school and medical expenses.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
10. So we should fork out tens of billions
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 12:58 PM
Feb 2020

so that 60% can just drop out?

That makes sense?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

samnsara

(17,572 posts)
2. If a high school student has great grades they can do two grades of college in high school for free
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 12:50 PM
Feb 2020

..before they even graduate HS..so they graduate as a college Sophomore right from HS. We have this very program in our state, called Running Start and I'm sure there are many HS's with the same. Id like to see more of this..

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
5. I don't think the OP
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 12:54 PM
Feb 2020

Is referring to them. The 60% that don’t graduate are not usually those with college aspirations in high school that are taking college prep courses.

The 60% likely refers to those who want the college “experience” and not the degree.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
8. Why should only the top students have access to publicly funded community college? nt
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 12:56 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
9. In state Community college
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 12:57 PM
Feb 2020

Is much different tuition wise from out of state college.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
14. Of course. But it's a start. Ending state public education with 12th grade is arbitrary.
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:03 PM
Feb 2020

However, an argument can be made for states paying for their own students, not everyone else's.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
20. I think all the candidates
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:06 PM
Feb 2020

Want to make community and tech schools affordable for everyone.

It’s only two that want free college for everyone. And without any restrictions such as GPA or public service or military service, etc.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

exboyfil

(17,857 posts)
45. That is what I crafted for my daughters
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 04:15 PM
Feb 2020

Did it on my own, but some of the classes were paid for through PSEO when the high school did not offer the course.

If they did the AP grind in high school, they would have barely shaved off one year.

What my older daughter did to do 2+2 for her mechanical engineering degree could not be duplicated now because the engineering courses offered online are no longer being offered. She would be a 2+3 now.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
11. Is Bernie or Warren proposing everyone go to one of those?
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:00 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

jmg257

(11,996 posts)
6. Someone wants to have to pay for it. Otherwise no problem. nt
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 12:54 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Walleye

(30,729 posts)
7. How did school get to be so expensive?
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 12:55 PM
Feb 2020

I attended Los Angeles City College in the early 70’s. The total cost was $6.50 a semester for the student union card. Took some very interesting classes and learned a skill for a job. Damn conservatives and their anti-government crap.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

SharonAnn

(13,767 posts)
16. Severe budget cuts in Federal AND State funding reduced college funding.
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:03 PM
Feb 2020

That is by far the biggest cause.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

MichMan

(11,790 posts)
52. I understand why the red states cut state funding, but why did the blue states?
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 07:42 PM
Feb 2020

College costs dont seem to be any cheaper in one vs the other.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

MichMan

(11,790 posts)
51. How expensive would it be if students & parents could go anywhere they wanted
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 07:40 PM
Feb 2020

they wanted regardless of cost as someone else is paying. No reason to select a more affordable college when you can go to the biggest and best instead.

I would expect current tuition costs to double or triple. With all the promises about free college, I have heard no one actually address why it cost so much

Let's say for example, anyone who wanted one could have a "free" car. Would anyone choose a base model Kia with no options or would they all want a loaded luxury model with all the hi tech features and gadgets?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

JoeOtterbein

(7,698 posts)
12. Opposition to almost every proposal that benefits the many over the few is based on irrational...
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:00 PM
Feb 2020

...jealousy that another may receive more than they.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
13. This is a bad take
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:02 PM
Feb 2020

Given that Yang wants to give everyone $1000 instead.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
15. aka a mindset of scarcity - but I'm not talking about the reason Warren's and Sanders' proposals
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:03 PM
Feb 2020

are unpopular with some voters. I'm just talking about numbers.

Once we've addressed the skyrocketing cost of college tuition, funding free college for all will make sense.

As of now, it's frankly a reckless idea imo

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

scheming daemons

(25,487 posts)
17. There's no such thing as "free" anything.
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:04 PM
Feb 2020

The money comes from somewhere. You have to define where that is.


Professors/teachers don't work for free. We want them paid what they're worth, we have to fund it from somewhere.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
19. Yes. I posted this with the assumption that everyone here
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:05 PM
Feb 2020

is already familiar with reality.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
21. Some are. Some arent
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:07 PM
Feb 2020

Nt

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
29. Most are. No real reason to debase the conversation to assuage the lowest common denominators.
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:21 PM
Feb 2020

"Some are. Some arent (sic)"

Most are. A handful pretend they don't.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
28. I'd bet even the slowest mind easily infers that it's sponsored and paid for by taxes.
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:20 PM
Feb 2020

The "nothing is free" meme is worn out, irrelevant and not something that anyone takes seriously unless it's used just as a quick, meaningless jab.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

scheming daemons

(25,487 posts)
33. So let's hear which taxes. I'm all for raising certain taxes.
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:26 PM
Feb 2020

I like Liz's wealth tax idea.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
18. It undermines the privileges of the privileged
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:05 PM
Feb 2020

and often thick children of the rich.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
23. Are you trying to make a fat joke?
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:08 PM
Feb 2020

Nt

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
27. I assumed it was slang for stupid.
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:18 PM
Feb 2020

In the UK the slang usage of thick means angry. Here it means dumb.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
31. Yep. Thick as two short planks,
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:23 PM
Feb 2020

or as a brick, we say.

(Not angry: stupid. Not dumb: that means unable to vocalise, mute).

I dig language

Edit: "Thick as thieves", however, means in close conspiracy, and implies a degree of (dangerous) intelligence.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
37. Maybe angry is only an Irish slang usage?
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:42 PM
Feb 2020

I do too

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
41. Well now, I never came across that usage, to be sure,
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 02:11 PM
Feb 2020

in the few years I lived in the County Clare.

The English spoken in Ireland is, generally, of a much higher quality than that of England itself, as is well known.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
42. Maybe it's just the one area of Ireland
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 02:49 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
43. Such diversity (and diversion) is surely healthy.
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 03:08 PM
Feb 2020

... Observe, I recommend, the process leading to Scotland's independence from now on (breakup of the UK)!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,283 posts)
59. It can also mean "close" or "loyal": "Thick as thieves"
Sat Feb 8, 2020, 07:27 AM
Feb 2020

Sometimes, the kids of the rich can be fairly cliquish, thick as thieves.

Like Kavanaugh and friends, gathering at Timmy’s for skis w/Judge, Tom, PJ, Bernie, Squi.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

UniteFightBack

(8,231 posts)
22. It needs to be framed correctly. You don't just go say free college because it does need to be paid
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:07 PM
Feb 2020

for. Naturally people think about their taxes going up. So the framing is crucial ...college needs to be considered more like 13th and 14th grade etc...I think it can be much more easily sold if it is framed properly ..and of course we'd have to have a good salesperson to sell that.

Maybe a a compromise of people could pay something...even a nominal amount.
A token payment if you're really broke. Maybe take away the 'free' element from the opposition.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
24. Calling it free
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:12 PM
Feb 2020

Nothing wrong with investing in higher education like we've invested in K-12 in modern times but it's not free and we need to make sure people understand that. Same as how government funded single payer healthcare is NOT free but there are trade-offs that people can understand.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
26. My state and city have gone a long way to addressing that
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:15 PM
Feb 2020

Tuition is free for all four years at the University of Illinois for in-state residents whose families have incomes of $67,100 or less.

You must be a U.S. citizen or eligible noncitizen
You’re an Illinois resident (parents listed on the FAFSA are also Illinois residents)
Your family income is $67,100 or less
Your family’s assets are $50,000 or less
You’re under the age of 24
You’re admitted as a new freshman or transfer student
You attended and graduated from an Illinois high school
You must be enrolled in a baccalaureate degree program for at least 12 hours during fall or spring semesters

https://osfa.illinois.edu/illinois-commitment/

Tuition is free at any one of the City Colleges of Chicago (community colleges) if you graduate from a Chicago Public School (and now several partner schools) with a 3.0 grade average and are college ready (get a score of 17 or higher on ACT math and English; or get 460 or higher on SAT English and 440 in math; or pass a "Completion" test). Full tuition and books covered for three years. Graduation rates in this program have been 80%.

http://pages.ccc.edu/apply/star/

I think states (and municipalities) need to initiate more of these programs before it is possible on the national level. After all, public higher education is under the purview of states and cities, not the federal government.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
30. See, this makes sense. Really good points here.
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:21 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

exboyfil

(17,857 posts)
44. Is it just the University of Illinois
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 04:09 PM
Feb 2020

or are the regional campuses also included? The reason I ask is that the entrance requirements to the flagship campus is very high (thus selecting out the students from less wealthy background - this is the same thing the prestigious privates are doing).

Also hasn't there been a recent scandal with kids leaving guardianship with their wealthy parents and having poorer guardians take over (family friends and other relatives).

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
48. I think it's just Champagne-Urbana
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 06:27 PM
Feb 2020

the main campus, but other of the regional campuses may have other programs. And I think the cheating thing has been addressed, once it was revealed.

But I take some exception to your suggestion that students from less wealthy backgrounds cannot meet the admission requirements. I may be taking it wrong, but it sounds like you might be referring to minority students. And I don't accept that poor or minority students are not capable of being high achievers.

It's true that middle and high schools in some minority neighborhoods don't offer the kind of educational instruction that kids need to be able to attend first-rate colleges and universities. But that is a whole different issue: we desperately need to improve our elementary and secondary schools. I remember years ago when my son was a student at the University of Chicago and signed onto a summer program to assist middle-school students in math. He and a fellow student worked with an 8th-grade kid from one of the worst middle schools in the city. But he said this kid was "absolutely brilliant": it was just that his school didn't offer any of the math that would be needed for an advanced high-school program. So they spent the summer getting him up to speed; and it worked. He would be attending a very good high school the following year. I hope he would be the kind of kid who would qualify for the free tuition.

Students without such bright futures can access the free tuition at community colleges, and hopefully get the credentials they need to transfer to another school to complete a full undergraduate degree.

But get this straight: none of the policies proposed by any of the candidates would help underserved kids to get into the best state schools. You still have to meet the entrance requirement at a given school, and not everyone will do that, by far. The REAL issue to me is improving El-Hi education in this country. Every kid has the ability to achieve, but not all of them are getting the educational start they need. And it can't be made-up for completely in the post-high-school environment.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

exboyfil

(17,857 posts)
49. Absolutely not intended
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 06:44 PM
Feb 2020

but look at the profile of even a prestigious public like Illinois - it does not represent the demographic of college students in general in regards to wealth. The reason is the barriers to poorer children meeting the requirements (not able to pay for testing services, parents less able to help students academically, pooer schools, etc).

I was the first person in my family to go to college, and I recognize how hard it can be. I barely made it out of Purdue, and I made many mistakes along the way. Someone with parents who knew what was going on would have helped me to avoid those mistakes. Competition at prestigious public universities like Illinois and Purdue has only gotten worse over the years. I think my daughter faced some greater challenges at Iowa State than I faced at Purdue, but she had me to help her (we both majored in Mechanical Engineering).

I can't imagine how hard it is for a poor kid who may only have one parent at home who has never gone to college. I am very supportive of mentoring programs for the disadvantaged and affirmative action. I probably would not have gotten into Purdue without some affirmative action myself (I came from Mississippi, and I understand they were trying for some regional balance at the time).

I have tutored some in math for high school kids. My daughter is also doing this.

My only point is, if a larger percentage of students accessed the tuition free income based program, then the university would have less resources to make such a program available. I hope a better representation of society does go to Illinois. It is an excellent school, and our nation would benefit from communities having wider access.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
50. Yes, good points
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 07:20 PM
Feb 2020

But making it free doesn't help make up for that lack of support.

I used to volunteer twice a week at my daughter's inner-city high school in what was called the "college and career center." We parents would help kids who came in, mostly with no clue, to look through all the college catalogues (the Internet was still in its infancy, so it was dead-tree catalogues still) and to help advise with appropriate choices, applications, scholarship opportunities, etc. I hope we were able to make up for some of the support they lacked.

I doubt that kind of thing is replicable on a large scale. But volunteers, along with hiring more counselors, could help. It's a massive issue, that permeates the whole system. It's not just one thing, and it doesn't start top down, with college.

I should mention that in the countries that have "free" university, it's still the same issue: not everyone gets to go to college; indeed only the top tier. Sometimes I think people have the wrong idea about what this all means. And there are other issues: how do we insure that institutions of higher learning can maintain their standards, pay their faculty and staff adequate salaries (and attract top faculty), maintain research facilities, etc. when tuition is capped by the federal government? History tells us that when states run into budget problems, higher education funding is always one of the first things to get cut. There's a reason tuitions rise (among other things). It's one reason why I sort of lean towards the idea that the wealthy should not get a prize of free tuition: their kids are more likely to qualify for the top schools in the first place, and we need that money for educational help at the primary and secondary levels ... so that more less-advantaged kids can get into these schools in the first place.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MichMan

(11,790 posts)
53. Arent they just transferring the costs to those making over the threshold?
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 07:48 PM
Feb 2020

Their tuition most likely went up to make up for it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
56. It went up 1.8%, for the first time in 6 years
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 08:13 PM
Feb 2020

which doesn’t sound unreasonable.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

democratisphere

(17,235 posts)
32. NOTHING IS FREE!
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:26 PM
Feb 2020

This idea of free will definitely lose elections. Somebody always has to pay for it! Always!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MoonlitKnight

(1,584 posts)
36. Not standing for something is what loses elections
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:39 PM
Feb 2020

Leaders put forth bold ideas and lead people to their positions. Leaders have a vision. Great leaders have a vision and an ability to govern and get things done.

That is my issue with Biden and Klobuchar. They are not exhibiting leadership by crapping on ideas such as this. They can govern and get things done, but can they lead? I have not seen them do so yet.

Yang has ideas but lacks an overall vision or ability to govern.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

democratisphere

(17,235 posts)
38. THIS FREE craziness will alienate a huge majority of voters.
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:44 PM
Feb 2020

This country is buried in debt and deficits. Sick of the BS Voodoo economics.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MoonlitKnight

(1,584 posts)
39. It's a top line tax reduction
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 02:00 PM
Feb 2020

So expanding it will be a tax cut. People love tax cuts. Especially ones we say we are restoring that Trump took away.

Beat them at their own game.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

judeling

(1,086 posts)
34. Klobuchar's or Yang's proposals make a tremendous amount of sense.
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:30 PM
Feb 2020

The Idea behind two year free with expanded granting is that it covers a much broader part of the educational landscape. This is especially true as technical degrees lose value rapidly and the need for retraining and refreshing grows. It allows for the expanding of the infrastructure to more areas of the country and immediately serves those most likely to be left out.

Its not as if four year programs are cut out, they merely change to incorporate the two year entrance. Your PHD now has an AA at the beginning.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
35. The framing/naming of it 'free' is the silly part ...
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:37 PM
Feb 2020

So is 'Student Debt Forgiveness'. So is 'Medicare for All', as it implies you MUST avail yourself of it. That's not going to fly.

There's way better names for these ideas.

'Tuition Support'
'Early Medicare Buy-In' (there's no question in my mind a radical transformation isn't in the cards, it must be done incrementally). Or 'Public Option'.
'Student Debt Reform'

There's some for ya ... those are the types of name the GOP would use ... if they were into this kinda stuff.

People like 'options' and 'reforms' and 'support' ... they don't like mandates, and they don't like the word 'free', when it's obviously NOT free.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MoonlitKnight

(1,584 posts)
40. Definitely need to reframe and rephrase these proposals
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 02:08 PM
Feb 2020

Like when Sanders and Warren are asked if immigrants get “free healthcare “.

“Yes, because they will be paying into it just like everyone else. Immigrants pay taxes. Undocumented immigrants pay taxes. Everyone pays taxes. The only ones who don’t pay taxes are the mega corporations like Amazon. We are going to fix that. And even though the Supreme Court thinks they are people, Amazon won’t get Medicare. But their hardworking and underpaid employees will.”

Something like that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Doremus

(7,261 posts)
47. Excellent suggestions. I hope the respective campaigns start implementing them. nt
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 04:19 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Doremus

(7,261 posts)
46. I'd be okay with that.
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 04:18 PM
Feb 2020

I think Andrew Yang is a good man and if he somehow got the nomination I would proudly vote for him.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

MichMan

(11,790 posts)
54. Why is no one ever addressing why college costs so much and how to make it affordable?
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 08:07 PM
Feb 2020

Due to the easy availability of student loans, as costs rose, students and parents kept borrowing more and more. Colleges realized that they could keep raising tuition and people would continue to keep borrowing. The costs would never go down until enrollments started dropping.

I cant imagine how high tuition costs will go if the government is the one paying for it.

K12 education has the local government owning and operating the schools with government employees and state/local funding. Colleges are set up nothing like this at all.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Luciferous

(6,068 posts)
57. Or maybe just eliminate the interest? I know that would be a huge help to me in paying off my loans.
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 09:08 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Happy Hoosier

(7,083 posts)
58. All for it. Do it fast...
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 09:28 PM
Feb 2020

My daughter is headed off to Indiana University in the Fall....

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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