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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

JudyM

(29,225 posts)
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:06 PM Feb 2020

How McKinsey Destroyed the Middle Class

... In effect, management consulting is a tool that allows corporations to replace lifetime employees with short-term, part-time, and even subcontracted workers, hired under ever more tightly controlled arrangements, who sell particular skills and even specified outputs, and who manage nothing at all.

... the managerial control stripped from middle managers and production workers has been concentrated in a narrow cadre of executives who monopolize planning and coordination. Mid-century, democratic management empowered ordinary workers and disempowered elite executives, so that a bad CEO could do little to harm a company and a good one little to help it. Today, top executives boast immense powers of command—and, as a result, capture virtually all of management’s economic returns. Whereas at mid-century a typical large-company CEO made 20 times a production worker’s income, today’s CEOs make nearly 300 times as much.


Management consultants insist that meritocracy required the restructuring that they encouraged... Consultants seek, in this way, to legitimate both the job cuts and the explosion of elite pay. Properly understood, the corporate reorganizations were, then, not merely technocratic but ideological. Rather than simply improving management, to make American corporations lean and fit, they fostered hierarchy, making management, in David Gordon’s memorable phrase, “fat and mean.”
...
When restructurings eradicated workplace training and purged the middle rungs of the corporate ladder, they also forced companies to look beyond their walls for managerial talent—to elite colleges, business schools, and (of course) to management-consulting firms. That is to say: The administrative techniques that management consultants invented created a huge demand for precisely the services that the consultants supply.
...

A deeper objection to Buttigieg’s association with McKinsey concerns not whom the firm represents but the central role the consulting revolution has played in fueling the enormous economic inequalities that now threaten to turn the United States into a caste society.


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/02/how-mckinsey-destroyed-middle-class/605878/

————————
Posting this not a criticism of Pete, since his choosing McKinsey doesn’t fully define him, but as an interesting angle to think about as we consider the larger issues of repairing society that the next POTUS will face. Which candidate(s) has the insight to tackle this sociological, structural problem? We can’t pretend it doesn’t exist.

My first priority is beating trump like a rug and rolling back everything we can of his monstrous reign. My second priorities are climate and corruption. But we’d be wise to focus also on the importance of fixing these large structural issues that have daily meaning in the lives of masses of voters.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
33 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
How McKinsey Destroyed the Middle Class (Original Post) JudyM Feb 2020 OP
They helped create the gig economy. Downsize and outsource. jalan48 Feb 2020 #1
+1 alwaysinasnit Feb 2020 #26
The overabundant labor supply helped a lot. empedocles Feb 2020 #2
Buttigieg is the most corporate-friendly and elite-friendly candidate. dalton99a Feb 2020 #3
How so? crimycarny Feb 2020 #16
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Feb 2020 #4
Recommended for the analysis and visibility. guillaumeb Feb 2020 #5
Look at the chart. What years was the CEO:worker ratio lowest? Recursion Feb 2020 #15
Exactly, and that era corresponds to a time when 35% of US workers were unionized. guillaumeb Feb 2020 #18
No, I meant 2008-2009 Recursion Feb 2020 #23
I missed that. eom guillaumeb Feb 2020 #24
Well, that's not when it was lowest PETRUS Feb 2020 #25
Hell yes DBoon Feb 2020 #28
Pete Buttigieg hires former Goldman Sachs executive as national policy director floppyboo Feb 2020 #6
Well that resolves that question. JudyM Feb 2020 #29
not really, it is a false-framed hit job attempt Celerity Feb 2020 #31
Ok, that's good info. JudyM Feb 2020 #32
Sonal Shah was Obama's Director of the Office of Social Innovation and Civic Participation Celerity Feb 2020 #30
From 2008-2009 (at McKinsey) he worked with non-profits to try to combat climate change crimycarny Feb 2020 #7
I'd love to hear him talk about that. JudyM Feb 2020 #13
Agree crimycarny Feb 2020 #17
The ratio went up when real incomes were going up Recursion Feb 2020 #8
220 times the typical worker salary is not the economy doing something right, no. JudyM Feb 2020 #11
Again: it was lower during the recession. Were those times better? Recursion Feb 2020 #14
We're doing this again? Yay!! Scurrilous Feb 2020 #9
You seem not to have read the post. JudyM Feb 2020 #12
So it was management consultants and executives, not those foreigners stealing our jobs? IronLionZion Feb 2020 #10
It went up 50% in the 60s/70s & unchanged in the last 2 decades mathematic Feb 2020 #19
It skyrocketed through the 90's JudyM Feb 2020 #20
It's probably a bunch of things mathematic Feb 2020 #22
"Consult" "Con" + "Insult" EOM The Mouth Feb 2020 #21
can we get this to the greatest page for the posters commentary alone? Kurt V. Feb 2020 #27
That's very kind, thanks Kurt! JudyM Feb 2020 #33
 

jalan48

(13,852 posts)
1. They helped create the gig economy. Downsize and outsource.
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:09 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
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empedocles

(15,751 posts)
2. The overabundant labor supply helped a lot.
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:11 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
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dalton99a

(81,426 posts)
3. Buttigieg is the most corporate-friendly and elite-friendly candidate.
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:15 PM
Feb 2020

His governing style reflects that attitude


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crimycarny

(1,351 posts)
16. How so?
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 02:40 PM
Feb 2020

I have family from South Bend and they love Buttigieg.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Uncle Joe

(58,333 posts)
4. Kicked and recommended.
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:20 PM
Feb 2020

Thanks for the thread Judy.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
5. Recommended for the analysis and visibility.
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:25 PM
Feb 2020

All part of controlling the 99% for the benefit of the 1%.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
15. Look at the chart. What years was the CEO:worker ratio lowest?
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 02:21 PM
Feb 2020

Are those years you would like to repeat?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
18. Exactly, and that era corresponds to a time when 35% of US workers were unionized.
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 02:50 PM
Feb 2020

That is not a coincidence.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
23. No, I meant 2008-2009
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 03:36 PM
Feb 2020

CEO:worker pay ratios go down during recessions.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

PETRUS

(3,678 posts)
25. Well, that's not when it was lowest
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 06:50 PM
Feb 2020

It was much lower 1995 and earlier. I don't understand how the 2008-2009 comparison is relevant to this discussion.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

DBoon

(22,352 posts)
28. Hell yes
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 07:15 PM
Feb 2020

The 1960s were the pinnacle of the great American middles class. We had a future. It was the "Affluent Society".

I grew up during that time.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

floppyboo

(2,461 posts)
6. Pete Buttigieg hires former Goldman Sachs executive as national policy director
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:36 PM
Feb 2020

And there's also this. Note the employment dates leading up to the financial crash. Unfortunate.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/18/buttigieg-hires-former-goldman-sachs-executive-as-policy-director.html

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

JudyM

(29,225 posts)
29. Well that resolves that question.
Sat Feb 8, 2020, 06:44 PM
Feb 2020

SMH. I was hoping otherwise, but this is the angle of his experience...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Celerity

(43,253 posts)
31. not really, it is a false-framed hit job attempt
Sat Feb 8, 2020, 08:22 PM
Feb 2020

I like your posts, you seem a rational and fair person, so please see

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287485136#post30

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JudyM

(29,225 posts)
32. Ok, that's good info.
Sun Feb 9, 2020, 01:17 PM
Feb 2020

I’ll continue to watch how his campaign develops...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Celerity

(43,253 posts)
30. Sonal Shah was Obama's Director of the Office of Social Innovation and Civic Participation
Sat Feb 8, 2020, 08:15 PM
Feb 2020
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonal_Shah_(economist)#Public_service

Shah held a variety of U.S. Department of Treasury positions from 1995 until 2001. She was the director of the office overseeing strategy and programs for sub-Saharan Africa, which included debt relief, development programs and World Bank/International Monetary Fund strategies. She worked with the Ministries of Finance in Bosnia and Kosovo to design the post-war banking system. During the Asian financial crisis, she served as a senior adviser to U.S. Treasury officials who were coordinating the U.S. response.


In 2004, Shah joined Goldman Sachs as a Vice President, where she worked on green initiatives, which included informing clients and bankers on alternative energy opportunities and advising them on how to implement environmental, social and governance criteria for all investments.


On April 2009, Shah was appointed director of the newly created White House Office of Social Innovation and Civic Participation. The objective of this office is to coordinate governmental efforts to aid innovative nonprofit groups and social entrepreneurs to address pressing social problems. Shah is also working with the National Security Council to bring a global perspective to these efforts.





Weak smear attempt via dodgy guilt by association positings using a disingenuous framing tactic.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crimycarny

(1,351 posts)
7. From 2008-2009 (at McKinsey) he worked with non-profits to try to combat climate change
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:38 PM
Feb 2020

Does that count? Or are we only looking at what we think is the "bad stuff" he did at McKinsey--a job he held from 2007-2010 right after college. 3 whole years.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/12/11/21010731/what-we-know-about-pete-buttigieg-mckinsey

2008-2009

Buttigieg worked for a collection of environmental nonprofits, public utilities and the EPA and Department of Energy, researching how energy efficiency could reduce climate change. Buttigieg’s report from that is publicly available.


Though I realize you wrote that your post was not meant as a criticism of Pete, there does seem to be an implication of that in your wording: "his choosing of McKinsey doesn't fully define him."

Personally I think forewarned is forearmed. I think Pete having insight into how these corporations work, while having progressive values, is a good thing. His knowledge will only serve to help combat the sneaky ways corporations try to rip off the middle class, IMO.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JudyM

(29,225 posts)
13. I'd love to hear him talk about that.
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 02:00 PM
Feb 2020

I’ve been listening to him to understand more, especially the last few days.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

crimycarny

(1,351 posts)
17. Agree
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 02:43 PM
Feb 2020

Personally I think it's pretty impressive that Pete was working to combat climate change 12 years ago, way before it was widely seen as the threat it is.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
8. The ratio went up when real incomes were going up
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:40 PM
Feb 2020

and down when real incomes were going down.

In fact, the sharpest drop of that ratio was between 2008 and 2009. Are you saying that the economy was doing something right at that point?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JudyM

(29,225 posts)
11. 220 times the typical worker salary is not the economy doing something right, no.
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:58 PM
Feb 2020

Not when ~80% of working families live paycheck to paycheck, struggling to afford childcare, etc.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
14. Again: it was lower during the recession. Were those times better?
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 02:13 PM
Feb 2020

Would you rather have lower real incomes as long as that particular ratio is lower?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Scurrilous

(38,687 posts)
9. We're doing this again? Yay!!
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:53 PM
Feb 2020

Trying to remember the funny one I saw at commondreams.

What was it? Hmmmm...'His work at McKinsey was a Kissinger level war crime.' Yes. That's it! That's the one!

Kudos for the promptness. Pete wins the shit comes out!

That reminds me. Check out commondreams and see how they're dealing with loss

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JudyM

(29,225 posts)
12. You seem not to have read the post.
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:59 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

IronLionZion

(45,404 posts)
10. So it was management consultants and executives, not those foreigners stealing our jobs?
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 01:57 PM
Feb 2020

My mind is blown.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mathematic

(1,434 posts)
19. It went up 50% in the 60s/70s & unchanged in the last 2 decades
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 02:55 PM
Feb 2020

Looks like we've finally solved the problem of increasing CEO pay relative to typical workers.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JudyM

(29,225 posts)
20. It skyrocketed through the 90's
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 03:11 PM
Feb 2020

The more recent (relative) leveling out is an interesting point. Why do you suppose that is?

Out of hand top compensation is still a huge problem when corporate profits aren’t being shared with the workforce, though.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

mathematic

(1,434 posts)
22. It's probably a bunch of things
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 03:27 PM
Feb 2020

These are all guesses. I haven't looked into it.

1) The value added by executive management has stopped growing.
2) Better board oversight for compensation committees have begun to reign in excesses.
3) Fewer high growth companies going public or staying public.
4) Wage growth for typical workers has increased faster in the last two decades than in the prior four decades.

I think one of the interesting things about the recent stability is that it's happening during an extremely strong stock market and that used to mean a huge spike in CEO pay.

I'm curious to hear other possible reasons why executive pay has remained approximately stable over the last two decades.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Mouth

(3,145 posts)
21. "Consult" "Con" + "Insult" EOM
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 03:13 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Kurt V.

(5,624 posts)
27. can we get this to the greatest page for the posters commentary alone?
Fri Feb 7, 2020, 06:57 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

JudyM

(29,225 posts)
33. That's very kind, thanks Kurt!
Sun Feb 9, 2020, 02:23 PM
Feb 2020

I want to understand mor about Pete.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
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