Another bonus for Bernie's electability. He's used to having the media against him.

[DanTex]

You know that when it comes to the GE, the media is going to attack our candidate, with false equivalencies, and pseudo-scandals, and all that. Bernie's already fighting that headwind. But if we nominate one of the centrists that are getting propped up by the media right now, that's going to be a big shift come the GE.

Just the latest of the millions of examples, here's Rick Stengel on MSNBC attacking Bernie, flat-out lying that many of Bernie's supporters switched to Mayor Pete from the first round to the second in Iowa. Everyone on screen knows that Bernie actually gained votes from first round to second, and that Bernie won both measures of popular vote.

Link to tweet

[Fresh_Start]

1. this is a joke, nt

nt

[DanTex]

3. It's a joke that MSNBC has people on there to tell blatant anti-Bernie lies.

I wonder if anyone cares to try to defend what Rick Stengel said.

[Fresh_Start]

9. BS should just start saying fake news

there are a group of people already trained to believe that...

Bernie runs or doesn't answer when he is asked difficult questions or he gets defensive and argumentative.

and if he's SAD now..its only going to get worse

[DanTex]

11. Again, I notice you're not even addressing the lie Stengel told.

That proves my point, really. We're so used to seeing the media attack Bernie and tell lies like that Bernie's voters shifted to Pete, that you don't even think it's worthy of noticing.

[Fresh_Start]

13. dont watch television, didn't see it

however, the numbers show that ~50% of the people who supported BS in 2016..have moved on...at least some of those had to have moved to Pete

[Fresh_Start]

15. precinct results

at nytimes

show he lost most of the districts he won in 2016
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/02/03/us/elections/results-iowa-caucus-precinct-map.html?action=click&module=ELEX_results&pgtype=Interactive&region=Navigation

[DanTex]

16. You don't have to watch TV, you can just watch that video I posted.

And changing the subject to Bernie's Iowa win is great and all, but it's still avoiding the fact that the media, as in this example, is already lying to attack Bernie.

[Fresh_Start]

21. i find that looking an snippets meant to prove someones point

is a pretty uninformed way of analysis.

You need to look at a broad base of information and weigh it all.

Otherwise you are looking at preaching to the choir information only.

[DanTex]

23. OK, I guess if you don't watch TV news, you might think this is just an isolated example.

Also if you don't read op/ed pages like WP, then you probably missed all their anti-Bernie articles too.

But in that case, instead of writing off the obvious anti-Bernie stance of the MSM as a "joke", at least you should concede that since you don't follow media, you really can't say one way or the other.

[Fresh_Start]

24. i follow lots of media just written media

and it doesn't look like that if you consume a lot of it..

[George II]

2. Here we go with the "media against him" stuff again. What does the media have to do with....

....electability?

Nothing.

[still_one]

4. +++

[DanTex]

5. Re-read the OP. Bernie has experience dealing with hostile media, that's a bonus.

And if you don't think this is an example of the media being anti-Bernie, why don't you try to defend what Rick Stengel said?

[George II]

8. I would say that someone pointing out that he gained 2000 votes in the second round..

....as a positive and totally ignoring the fact that Buttigieg gained THREE TIMES that 2000 votes is not the "media against him", more like running cover for his failure in the second round.

What's to defend, why is Sanders dwelling on the first vote and not the FINAL vote?

[DanTex]

12. Stengel clearly said that many Bernie voters shifted to Pete.

That's obviously a lie, Pete's votes came from other candidates, Bernie picked up votes in the second round as well. And Bernie won both counts.

The fact that people like you consider anti-Bernie lies like this to be normal proves my point.

[George II]

17. Buttigieg gained 6000, Sanders only 2000. Irrelevant though, these are the rules insisted upon....

...by the Sanders campaign.

[DanTex]

18. And Stengel lied about it. Showing an example of the media already being against Bernie.

You're not actually trying to pretend that what Stengel said was true, are you?

[bluewater]

20. The first vote was more like a straight up Primary vote

For the second vote, SOME of the voters (those in non-viable groups) got to change their votes and vote again.

That's like some sort of poorly implemented half-baked "ranked choice" vote.

The initial primary like vote was much cleaner to interpret... just vote for who you liked best.

Sanders won that vote by an impressive 6,000 votes.

Well done, Bernie.

[Fresh_Start]

25. it would never be a primary like vote because it didn't include primary voters

essentially you only get activists at a caucus

2016 presidential votes in iowa 1.5MM roughly
2020 caucus votes in iows .17MM

just barely 10%

and that is why its not a primary or even primary like

[bluewater]

26. But that's all true of the half-baked pseudo ranked choice 2nd vote too.

So, all things considered, the first vote was cleaner and more representative than the 2nd.

Bernie won that first vote by 6,000 votes.

We should Give credit where credit is due.

[Fresh_Start]

28. ranked choice like maine is not the same thing at all

because all voters have opportunity vote

caucus does not allow all voters to vote
apples and screwdrivers

[bluewater]

29. Exactly. But the 1st vote at the caucus was still better than the 2nd vote for reasons stated.

I agree caucuses, pardon my language, suck.

But people here though were claiming the 2nd half-baked rank choice-like vote should be more significant than the cleaner 1st vote.

That simply is not valid. The 1st vote was more significant than the 2nd vote at that caucus.

Let's compare apples to apples here or at least use the same standard to evaluate both the 1st and 2nd vote.

That seems reasonable, doesn't it?

[Fresh_Start]

30. the 1st vote was better at an individual precinct for caucus voters only

but its not representative of the popular vote even at that single precinct

it cannot be aggregated to the state level and equated to popular vote and it cannot be aggregated to the state level and resolved to delegate equivalents

[bluewater]

31. I don't think we are disagreeing, just making diferent points.

My point was about just comparing the 1st vote to the 2nd vote.

Every thing you are saying about the 1st vote can also be said about the 2nd vote, which was the more contorted of the two.

Thanks for the discussion.

[Fresh_Start]

32. caucused should have been in the annals for history

but bernie wanted them because he thought he would prevail

[Saviolo]

19. With all due respect:

The media may not have much to do with "electability" but if you don't believe that the updwards of $2billion of free advertising that Trump got in 2016 didn't help him "win" that election, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/16/upshot/measuring-donald-trumps-mammoth-advantage-in-free-media.html

The media plays an enormous role in the election cycle.

[calguy]

6. That is pure fantasy

[DanTex]

7. In that case, would you care to defend what Rick Stengel said?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

10. Piffle. The media have given him a pass.

[msongs]

14. poor persecuted bernie everyone is out to get all the time lol nt

[Squinch]

22. Oh, FFS. You guys never stop with the persecution bullshit.

[Docreed2003]

27. Bernie might be taken seriously by the media

If he didn't blow them off every, single, time he's ask a question about how he plans to fund his proposals. The rebuttal is always " well they don't ask how wars are funded".....that's nothing more than a distraction from the question. If you want to reduce defense spending...say that. The media had no problems pressing Warren on this issue and she rose to the occasion. It's far passed time for Bernie to do likewise. Until then, he's getting a pass.

[BlueIdaho]

33. Bernie is unelectable in a general election. nt.