Nevada Culinary Workers Union comes out against mandatory Medicare For All

[RandySF]

Culinary Union Local 226, Nevada’s largest and most politically powerful labor union, circulated a flyer last week that attacked the nationalized health care proposals of 2020 presidential hopefuls Sen. Bernie Sanders and Sen. Elizabeth Warren.

The flyer, written in English and Spanish and shared on Twitter on Friday, asks, “We have fought for 85 years to protect our health care. Why would we let politicians take it away?”

Although it doesn’t mention Sanders, Warren or Medicare for all by name, it heavily implies their plans to eliminate nearly all private insurance would be bad for the union and make it harder to defeat President Donald Trump.

The 60,000-plus member union has yet to decide whether to back a candidate in 2020. Sanders and Warren were among the crowded field of challengers who met with the union in Las Vegas to seek the endorsement.
Most of Warren and Sanders’ policies were well-received during their Culinary Union town halls, but union leadership and some members pushed back on the health care proposals.

Several sections of the flyer feature mock quotes from Sanders’ visit, during which he said Medicare for All is a way to fix health care for everyone, and employers will reinvest savings from the policy into workers’ salaries.

“Those politicians have never sat at our bargaining table or been on a 24/7 six years, four months and 10 days strike line,” the flyer reads.





https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/politics-and-government/culinary-union-circulates-flyer-attacking-medicare-for-all-1953979/

[HerbChestnut]

1. It's sad that a major Union is lying to its members.

The flyer, written in English and Spanish and shared on Twitter on Friday, asks, “We have fought for 85 years to protect our health care. Why would we let politicians take it away?”

That is a bold faced lie. Medicare for All would provide everyone with comprehensive health insurance as a right.

[ChubbyStar]

3. I will wait to see what the rank and file want

The flyer is just that a flyer.

[Lancero]

9. Likely funded by the Republican leaning members of the Union at that.

The whole 'they're gonna take away your healthcare!' is pulled straight from the Republicans playbook.

Wonder if they're going to put out a flier in response to Trump moving to strip medicare and medicaid funding - Which will inevitably result in some of their members having their health insurance taken away?

[MarcA]

20. Some seem to support the flyer just because they oppose Sanders. n/t

[George II]

4. How, specifically, are they lying? They HAVE fought for 85 years for their health care, and....

...they're not willing to gamble it away on a promise that "it will be cheaper" even though the person who came up with "M4A" says that no one knows how much it will cost.

No, a major union is NOT "lying", they're protecting their members.

Why are you anti-union?

[HerbChestnut]

5. Okay, George.

[George II]

6. So you're not willing to say how they're lying. "Okay, Herb."

[squirecam]

8. Tell that to NV union members

It’s not going to go well. They are VERY protective of their bargained for benefits.

[HerbChestnut]

19. I'm willing to bet that M4A insurance is better than their current insurance.

Problem is, union members don't know that because of flyers like the one posted in the OP.

[xmas74]

23. I'm in a union.

Some of our members qualify for Medicare. They prefer to keep our insurance for now until they retire. Why? Because it's prescription coverage is better.

[HerbChestnut]

26. Medicare would get a significant overhaul once the M4A bill passes.

Many of the financing/coverage problems of current Medicare would be fixed. Here's a link to the full text of the bill:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/1129/text

[xmas74]

30. And how many years until implementation?

Is funding guaranteed by Congress?

I'd love to see everyone insured but right now I'm siding with my union brothers and sisters. We've fought too hard and given up too much for maybe.

[squirecam]

32. Damn right

Nt

[xmas74]

35. I'm a state employee.

My state is the lowest pay in the nation for its employees. I can easily make double, almost triple in another field but I went back to state work for the benefits my union fought-and still fights-damn hard to provide. My kid gets free college hours at a state University every year, she has good insurance provided until she's 26, I earn nearly a month of vacation and a month of sick every year-separate from each other. I have a pension, for now.

I want guarantees M4A will pass and be funded or else the state will use this to cut our insurance.

[HerbChestnut]

33. Once the bill passes there is a 4-year transition period to get everyone onboard broken up by...

...age classes, starting with older generations. I don't remember if I posted a link to the full text of the bill for you already, but here it is just in case. Read through that and tell me if it's better health insurance than what you currently have.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/1129/text

[xmas74]

36. Once it passes

Do you really believe it'll pass? I don't.

[HerbChestnut]

40. That argument makes no sense.

[xmas74]

46. It makes perfect sense.

In our political landscape we would need an almost supermajority to guarantee everything passes. Guess what? We're not getting it.

I know what's out there. This isn't passing.

[squirecam]

39. Well

Let’s say M4A is actually enacted by Sanders.

Then 4 years from now, another Trump is elected. And Medicare is cut.

Now the union gave up its bargained for great healthcare (a sure thing) for much worse care.

You can’t expect union members to take the risk.

[HerbChestnut]

41. I guess private insurance companies have never raised rates or cut benefits before.

Btw, what tends to happen to politicians who vote for Medicare and Social Security cuts? They lose elections.

[squirecam]

43. These are a UNION members

They have bargained for care. Which they love. They shouldn’t risk their care at the whims of the next trumper.

But please, tell them they are wrong. They will love that.

[HerbChestnut]

44. That's the thing, there's no risk.

Either M4A passes and they get comprehensive health insurance, or it doesn't and they keep their current union benefits.

[squirecam]

49. No the risk is

Medicare is cut because the costs are too much or taxes are raised too much. Or the next trump cuts it on a whim. Or any number of things.

Union members like their care. They want certainty. Not promises.

[xmas74]

47. Vicky Hartzler is my congress person.

She lives for cuts. Guess what? She gets reelected every damn time. Why? Because she lies about who it affects and they believe it.

[TexasTowelie]

96. Don't you mean if a bill passes?

Where do we get 60 votes in the Senate because the bill will be filibustered? If Bernie is the nominee we will be fortunate to hold on to the seats we currently have and a Republican governor will get to fill the vacancy if Bernie is elected.

[TwilightZone]

25. "I'm willing to bet that M4A insurance is better"

At the moment, M4A is nothing more than a concept. You have no proof that this assertion is true, which is why it's a difficult sell to people who currently have insurance that they're satisfied with. In this case, a benefit they've fought for for decades.

You're willing to make that bet, but it's not up to you. It's up to the voters to decide if they're willing to do so as well.

Asserting that they're just too ignorant to know any better isn't going to win any converts.

[squirecam]

31. You have proven my point

While *you* are willing to risk their healthcare, *they* are not. They bargained for it after all. You need to show them exactly what they would be getting. And since Sanders has admitted he doesn’t know it’s cost, why would the union members take the risk?

But please. Tell them you know better then they do. That will go over real well.

[George II]

45. "Problem is, union members don't know that because..." even Sanders admits....

....he doesn't know how much it costs.

I'm willing to bet their current insurance is better. Do you know anything about union negotiated insurance? In case you don't, my brother went on strike for more than a year back in the 1970s to earn their benefits, including healthcare coverage. He retired in the 1980s, but has had coverage premium and copay free. Since then he's had four major heart surgeries that would have cost him more than a million dollars.

His out of pocket cost? ZERO.

Unions are not going to give that up. And despite your dismissal, they DO know because they see it today, not as a "promise" that may or not be passed sometime in the future.

[ooky]

65. That's the problem. You have to bet it because

nobody knows what it really is.

[Recursion]

70. I think you're wrong

M4A doesn't create doctors and nurses. It means people getting care now have to share doctors and nurses with people not getting care. Have you been to an FQHC lately? There's a reason people with private insurance go to doctors in private practices.

[gollygee]

82. They're not willing to bet it

It's easy to bet against with other people's money. My parents were union members. They negotiated time after time for better benefits even if it meant lower wages. I can imagine doing that over and over again to end up with the lower wages and still not get the great healthcare you sacrificed your wages for. You're very dismissive of union members' concerns.

[wiley]

109. As they should be!

Can't discuss the truth about anything with certain candidates followers. But whatever for them. Congrats on the big NH win! Go Amy! Go Pete! Go Bloomberg! Go Warren! Go Biden! Go Steyer!

[xmas74]

11. It's not a lie.

Unions bargain for their health insurance. They fight hard for it and many are worried about how this will impact current contracts.

There is no lie.

[HerbChestnut]

18. Saying that M4A is the equivalent of "politicians taking away your healthcare" is a lie.

M4A would provide comprehensive health insurance to everyone, including union members. Not only that, M4A has no deductibles, no copayments, and puts a cap on how much you have to pay for prescription drugs ($200). That is the kind of health insurance unions have been fighting for.

[xmas74]

21. Saying that unions fought hard for their insurance is not

A lie.

Depending on implementation it could be years before M4A is a reality. In the meantime unions will still be at the bargaining table,taking care of their members. I know my union takes care of me and it's biggest fear of M4A is implementation.

[questionseverything]

68. people 55 and over will be eligeble the first year

45 the next, then 35 until everyone is covered

it wouldn't happen over night

and your union could still give u upgraded medical

[xmas74]

73. If it ever happens.

If my congresswoman has a say it will never happen. My senators will be sure to vote against it.

Unless we have an almost supermajority we can't guarantee any of this will happen. It's all wishful thinking. You want me to bank my insurance against wishful thinking? Believe me, my employer will gladly argue to drop coverage over the possibility of M4A.

[George II]

50. No it's not. M4A "would" yadda yadda, but everyone knows it won't pass.....

Unions have their coverage TODAY, in writing and cast in stone.

In case you didn't know, union coverage has NO deductibles, NO copayments, and NO prescription drug cost. So right off the bat your (and Sanders') plan is $200 in the hole.

"That is the kind of health insurance unions have been fighting for" - no, that is what unions HAVE fought for and earned, and they're not going to give it up on a promise.

[Recursion]

71. We have no idea if M4A would have copays and deductibles or not

Medicare certainly has them, worse than any private insurance plan.

[MarcA]

12. Yes. One of the Pros for M4A is Unions would spend less bargaining

time and effort on Medical. I would like to see the rank and file response.
Of course, some people don't have or aren't allowed to have unions.

[aeromanKC]

34. Union most likely offers a Cadalac plan

They fight and work hard for those benefits.

[HerbChestnut]

38. That's great.

Here's the full text of the bill. Tell me a Cadalac plan offers better coverage than this without deductibles or copayments and also puts a limit on how much you have to spend on prescription drugs every year ($200).

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/1129/text

[dualboy24]

48. The main problem with the MC4A is...

It is being pushed by Bernie Sanders, you see when Obama was talking about it in the 07/08 election cycle, everyone was gung-ho for it, but now to differentiate for it half of the people are using the republican talking points.

The bill is probably the best healthcare proposal of any nation, giving full coverage, including dental and vision, it would bring the US up to the standard of other nations, and even surpass those standards in may ways, in Canada for instance there is no dental, and only limited vision coverage.

And yes the unions worked hard on bargaining for better healthcare, and having MC4A might mean the unions can spend time bargaining for something else...

The US spends so much more per capita than most nations, time to get some actual value for your money.

[xmas74]

55. Bullshit.

It's not because Sanders is talking about it.

Unions are savvy. They know the political climate. They hire people who do nothing but lobby. They probably know the chances of it passing far better than anyone here.

They don't think M4A will pass and they don't want to use their hard earned benefits as a bargaining chip.

[dualboy24]

62. That would be sad if true

There really needs to be a revolution to fix the broken system in the states. Honestly healthcare should be a right and everyone should get the best care in the world, same with the crumbling infrastructure, and poor schooling.

[xmas74]

64. And it's absolutely true.

There are no guarantees it will pass.

[ahoysrcsm]

72. Is there any way to compete with $0 prescription copay?

"also puts a limit on how much you have to spend on prescription drugs every year ($200)."

[RandySF]

53. The largest union in the State of Nevada is lying?

[HerbChestnut]

54. Yup. They are.

[xmas74]

56. So, you're familiar with unions?

You know what's going on, you have access to the staff their international has hired to scope out the political situation and report back? You know more?

I'm in a union. Stating they're liars is an insult and you damn well know it.

[HerbChestnut]

57. Not an insult when it's true.

[xmas74]

58. So you know more than the union.

Thanks for calling us all idiots and liars.

What a great way to get Labor on your side.

[HerbChestnut]

59. Here's the full text to the Medicare for All bill.

Tell me they're not lying after reading it.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/1129/text

[xmas74]

60. I've read the bill.

Thanks for thinking I don't know what I'm talking about. Then again, I'm just one of those dumb union people who need someone to explain it all to me.

[HerbChestnut]

61. If you've read the bill, then you know what the culinary union is saying is not true.

[xmas74]

63. What they said is true.

They fought for those benefits and they know they could easily lose them.

You refuse to accept that.

[Recursion]

69. But it might not be as good as their negotiated plan.

That's always the problem with M4A: people with current private insurance like it and don't want it to go away.

[doc03]

78. I am on Medicare now. I know Medicare and the insurance I had

from my USWA negotiated contract was far better than Medicare. If I was told to give that up for Medicare
I would be pissed too.

[squirecam]

101. Exactly

Nt

[wiley]

110. M4A is not a great idea

And I would get more than angry if I was forced to give up my Medicare.

[Jose Garcia]

81. Will it be as good as what they have now?

[7wo7rees]

104. +1000x n/t

[helpisontheway]

107. They do want to take away the good union insurance that they negotiated

for in the contract. My husband is a member of a RR union. They RR insurance is amazing and very reasonable. We don’t use it because my husband is retired military. The company actually gives us money each month because we opted out of the insurance. Anyway, the insurance is very good and the families really like it. Bernie and Elizabeth might lose some serious support once those families realize that they would not have an option to keep their insurance. Pete was hitting hard on it this morning and it might work.

[elleng]

2. Reality enters the scene.

Interesting.

[NYMinute]

7. This means Bernie can kiss Nevada good bye nt

[Celerity]

10. BOOM

[ChubbyStar]

17. Yes quite the fireworks

Will you bring your personal cannon to Nevada? I am sure it goes BOOM too!

[Celerity]

22. It is hard to get the cannon past customs from Sweden to the US.

[ChubbyStar]

24. The TSA can be unreasonable

[Celerity]

29. indeed, the bastards!

[xmas74]

13. Several unions have said this.

Sanders will not get the big union endorsements.

[Cha]

113. Good!

[oasis]

14. Biden, Amy K., and Mayor Pete should benefit from this MF4 rejection.

[Garrett78]

15. It's important to understand the difference between leadership and membership.

An article about this issue: https://www.currentaffairs.org/2020/01/why-would-a-union-oppose-medicare-for-all.

[marlakay]

16. The unions are all against it because

Number one reason people join is to get good healthcare, if people had healthcare without needing a union they would lose membership.

Very sad because unions have been strong for fighting for the workers for a long time, the best thing for workers is cheaper healthcare so they can afford other bills.

We belong to a union and I have a good plan but we have to do what is right for everyone.

[MarcA]

27. +1,000 n/t

[xmas74]

28. I thought it was for collective bargaining

For wages and benefits, of which insurance is just one benefit.

In my job you join for job security. The grievance process has saved many jobs in my field.

[marlakay]

37. Yes I guess thinking about it job

Security is a huge thing and then after that wages and healthcare. But the cost of healthcare is so high workers keep getting less in raises.

My husband paid extra for 30 years so that when he retired healthcare would be free until him and spouse on medicare. It was for 2 yrs until next contract, then every contract we pay more and this was after he paid extra out of every paycheck for 30 yrs because he was told he wouldn’t have to pay.

And this was in a very strong SF union.

[xmas74]

42. The grievance process is why people fought and died.

They fought for the right to file against the wrongs of the employer, both real and perceived. People don't realize how important that is until they are in the position of being passed over for a promotion because the boss has a nephew needing a job. Maybe they fall at work and are injured, then terminated because they didn't have enough time on the books to cover. Or maybe they're accused of doing something they didn't do and the punishment is termination.

I'm a steward. This is what we fought for. The rest is just benefits, which we also love.

[marlakay]

52. Yes I will say that is the best thing

Having someone to fight for you means all the world.

[Azathoth]

75. It's the same reason everyone is against it

They've got good insurance through their employer/union/spouse/whatever and they aren't going to give that up to help the "lazy" people.

[marlakay]

95. I know a few people that don't

Want to help people with school loans because they paid theirs off.

Its all personal.

[Azathoth]

111. Yup. It's all a variation of "I got mine screw you"

And the harder it was for them to "get" theirs, the more passionate they are about forcing others to suffer as well.

[gldstwmn]

51. That is some bullshit.

[Cha]

66. KICK for the Culinary Union!

[Proud Veteran]

67. Having been an active/retired union member since 1963 can see the Culinary Unions view point.

I have an excellent union negotiated health plan that could NOT be bested by M4A without an increase(probably significant) in taxes. Pay zero monthly and $600 out of pocket yearly max. Also have dental(recent crown cost $121) and vision (eyeglasses cost $35 complete). Also most common prescriptions cost $5 for 90 day supply.
Enough about me. I totally realize healthcare should be a right for everyone and not a privilege. Vast improvements need to be made.Just don't think that with the diverse political make up that M4A is viable. After all we had a Democratic Congress and President when the ACA was proposed and it just barely passed.Hopefully we will have this same situation next January. If anyone thinks that M4A will have a chance of getting through a supermajority in the senate,they just aren't paying attention.

[xmas74]

74. I'm current union

And I don't see M4A passing. Why would I bank my child''s insurance on a maybe?

[still_one]

79. The one size fits all is going to be a problem for some, and getting it passed is highly

unlikely unless we control both houses, and have a substantial majority, because not all Congressional Democrats think M4A is the solution

[Loki Liesmith]

76. Good

[still_one]

77. Nevada and S.C. are going be interesting, especially for essentially the five candidates

Biden, Amy, Pete, Sanders, and Warren

[brooklynite]

80. Gee, if only a candidate said we should have "Medicare for All" Who Want It...

[brutus smith]

83. Another greedy union probably full of repubs.

Same ones who destroyed our unions in the 80's. if you think that their employers wouldn't drop their insurance in a heartbeat, then I have some swamp land to sell you.

[RandySF]

91. No

They were intrumental in helping elect Jackie Rosen to the Senate in 2018.

[brutus smith]

93. It was more a referendum of trump.

[comradebillyboy]

98. The unions know MFA"pie in the sky bye and bye".

People live in the here and now.

[xmas74]

100. Greedy union, huh?

Sounds like a GOP talking point to me.

[squirecam]

103. You are 100% wrong.

Nevada unions are/were the backbone of Harry Reid’s operation. They got him through his toughest race vs Angle when he was supposed to lose.

Please don’t talk about my state without knowing the facts.

[doc03]

84. When I was still working we had what they call a Cadillac plan. We fought

for decades and gave up pay raises in order to receive those benefits. In my working years we had two
strikes one for 100 days and another for 10 1/2 months. Both strikes were to keep our health care and
save our pensions. Now Bernie comes wanting to take what we fought for to get a pie in the sky plan that
will never get through congress in the first place. It took decades to get the ACA now we get a Republican
president that has undone most of it in only 3 years. No thanks Bernie.

[brutus smith]

87. How is Bernie's plan a "pie in the sky plan"?

For everyone to be insured? I got mine, screw you? Some companies like GM had their employees start at half the rate and the union went right along with it just so they could keep their "Cadillac" plans. United we stand, divided we fall.

[doc03]

99. How is Bernie's plan ever going anywhere unless we have a

super majority in both the House and Senate? That's why we had unions. National health insurance was tried way back in the late 40's.
At that time government decided rather than a government program that employees should bargain for it through their union contracts.
That worked fine for decades until Republicans destroyed unions and Democrats abandoned them.

[Luciferous]

85. They have good healthcare so screw everyone else?

[gollygee]

86. I imagine they want everyone to have health care

but that doesn't mean they want m4a.

My parents were in a union and negotiated contract after contract for better benefits with a sacrifice of lower wages. They would not have been happy to lose their good benefits and still have the lower wages. M4a is not going to be as good as what union members have now and they know it.

The false dichotomy is m4a one one side, and "screw everyone else" on the other. There are other options.

[brutus smith]

89. So when they don't have anymore wages to "give", then what?

I have Medicare, best insurance I've had since the 70's.

[gollygee]

92. We can't dismiss the concerns of unions

We won't win elections without unions. If we want to sell union members on m4a, we have to actually sell them on m4a, not just tell them they're being selfish and so what if they spent years and years negotiating for their insurance. And we might have to gradually move toward m4a, or have it as an option rather than making people give up what they have, or something. We can't be dragged into false dichotomies, and we can't simply dismiss the concerns of union members.

[brutus smith]

94. Unions are not all pro Democrat.

No one said to dismiss the concerns of union members. But union members should not dismiss the concerns of their neighbors. One of the big unions in Ohio, The operating engineers, are mainly repub supporters. Do they really believe their benefits aren't next?

[squirecam]

108. Yep

Nt

[brutus smith]

88. That's their motto, until they lose theirs.

[RandySF]

90. No, they don't want to be forced to give up what they have

That's why a Medicare option for everyone who wants it is much better.

[squirecam]

106. Unions exist to protect their members.

They don’t exist to give everyone else free college. They are not a bargaining chip to use in health care.

They have no incentive to give away their certainty for your uncertainty, when you won’t tell them how much it costs, because you don’t even know the amount.

They aren’t being selfish. You are. You want them to give up something for....who knows.

No way in hell they should do that.

[brutus smith]

97. BTW, what would stop companies from adding to your M4A?

[Rider3]

102. Voting against their better welfare

I expect nothing less. They don't do the research for themselves and believe their employer? The employer is out for themselves. It doesn't matter if you gave 30 years to the company. You don't matter. Only the bottom line matters. So, don't think your company cares for you or your "loyalty."

[squirecam]

112. I think the union reps

Know better then you about their own health plan.

[Turbineguy]

105. In a certain sense they are correct.

In Europe, labor laws are such that Unions became largely obsolete. This could eventually happen in the U.S. In 2 or 3 hundred years.

Medicare for All would take away a large Union function of running and administering a health care program.