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[LexVegas]

1. Truth. K&R. nt

[True Dough]

2. When you write

"He can come out of this scandal, and still be elevated as our nominee, but what will be the cost of treating anyone who dares support these women's right to speak out (as Joe Biden clearly has) as an enemy?"

I agree with that, 100%. I think some people have to comprehend that, embrace that. Even if one or two of these accusers is entirely politically motivated, we've all seen video and we've all heard from people who know Biden well that it's his nature to be putting his hands (and sometimes his lips) on others without being invited to do so. It's no revelation about Biden, really. What's happening is some women are drawing a line and saying they're uncomfortable with it, even if you're the vice-president of the USA.

[bigtree]

3. it can be damaging

...but Biden is working on that.

And he'll likely be fine. There's no need to ditch 'believing women' when they complain publicly or otherwise to pick Joe up here. He's working his way out of it, and he may just be stronger for the experience, personally and politically.

[shanny]

4. I too have an issue with his supporters,

far more so than with him. I feel the defense of his behavior is situational, excused because he is their favorite (potential) candidate.

[philly_bob]

5. I heard about Biden's touching habit long before primary.

It's something we have to deal with. I believe late-night comedians joked about it. The RW will bring it up.

Doesn't disqualify him for presidency. Maybe America will decide it needs a hug.

I assume there will be no sexual assault or other impropriety discovered, in which case he IS disqualified.

[oasis]

6. It might be a good idea for Harris to offer Biden a "Beer Summit"

to show the public there is no anomosity between them.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. We can believe that what they said happened actually did happen.

We can believe that it might have been uncomfortable or awkward for them. What we don't have to accept is the inference that his actions were sexually predatory. A person can report on what she felt, but in this case they are inferring intent on the part of Biden that doesn't seem to be borne out by his actions. He didn't grope them or touch them intimately or do anything that could be interpreted as a pass or a sexual come-on. I believe them when they say these actions occurred. I do not accept the inference being drawn from them. There's a difference.

[Merlot]

30. I don't think they were "infering intent"

From what I've read, what he did made them uncomfortable but no one thought that Biden was coming on to them or had any expectations.

Even without any infered intent, the situations caused discomfort and were disrespectful.

[Stare Decisis]

8. Anyone have an opinion as to why would Harris

give almost the exact same response as Liz, who gave almost the exact same response as Castro?

[Stare Decisis]

10. No she matched more than that.

It is ok to coordinate a response with fellow candidates. Just not sure WHY they would do that, if they did.

[bigtree]

11. this is what I'm talking about

...weird conspiracy nonsense.

She spoke her 'belief' and she was true to that. A woman supporting another woman. It's the hallmark of the movement. Only someone who never supported women's right to speak out would make an issue of this.

What you're doing here is suspiciously divisive, and a huge tell. The motivating factor for this ridiculous point you're making is either partisan politics or an effort to discredit the movement.

I'm not buying it.

[Stare Decisis]

12. The three candidates giving strikingly similar responses

is factual. I am asking why. A huge tell? Of what? I'll wait. Let's see your brilliance in action.

[Stare Decisis]

14. There is no accusation.

I am stating facts. Why is there something you think one would accuse them of? Never crossed my mind.

[bigtree]

15. I'm not going to be trolled by you

...I'm blocking you, talk this nonsense out with yourself.

[Pepsidog]

17. After all his years in public service that is the best they have?

[Hassler]

18. This is a dangerous game to play. It won't stop with Biden.

Every Dem will have things raised--including about Harris and Sanders --and the beneficiary in 2020 will be Cheetolini. That is why I'm focused on the candidates' values, policies, vision and determination to beat Chump.

[samnsara]

20. im just sad the #metoo movement has been weaponized. now we have nothing left....

[athena]

21. How has it been "weaponized"?

You’re basically accusing the women who have come forward of lying. Just because someone is saying something you don’t want to hear doesn’t mean they’re lying.

What has been weaponized is sexism. The amount of sheer hatred of powerful and outspoken women on DU is staggering.

[bigtree]

22. that's not really accurate

...politics takes advantage of any wedge.

I see the movement being undermined for political reasons, not from the accusers, but from people claiming to support Biden, lashing out at candidates and campaigns, well outside of where Biden came down on the accusations.

Think about the effect of bashing Kamala Harris for joining at least three other women candidates in remaining true to a determination to allow/encourage women to come forward with their complaints without fear of recrimination.

Her statement, true to that effort, well in line with other expressions of support for myriad women around the nation who have recently come forward with their own complaints.

According to people here, that determination to support women coming forward should stop at politics' edge. That wasn't the sentiment expressed by Democrats in the Kavanaugh hearing. It's because putting complaints aside for political reasons is a corruption of the movement, not a compliment as so many are trying to convince in defense of Biden.

Remember, believing women isn't conviction of anyone, it's support, and I'd expect Kamala Harris, Warren, and Klobuchar to be consistent to the movement and not pull back for political considerations. That's not a corruption of the movement, it's supporting it.

The shame is the political cravenness to defend Biden which is poised and ready to dismantle all of that support for women coming forward..

[Saviolo]

23. Nuance and context, something we need more of.

When so many people are seeing black and white (or in the case of the far right, just white), this post gives some important nuance to a complicated issue.

It is entirely possible that these women felt uncomfortable with the sort of contact that Biden was giving.
The fact that they were uncomfortable does not mean that Biden is necessarily a predator.
It does, however, mean that Biden is unaware of how the physical contact he makes with women makes them feel.
This didn't come out of the blue, I'd heard about this well before the primaries started.
We can believe women, support the Me Too movement, and still be in favour of Biden, but it's not a great look to blame the victims of unwanted touching, it sort makes it seem like your belief is pretty selective, and your support is pretty conditional.

There are lots of sides to this one.

[corbettkroehler]

24. Thank You! (n/t)

[Gothmog]

25. I like this statement by Joe Biden

Link to tweet

[bigtree]

26. me too

[mainstreetonce]

27. I am Joe's biggest fan.I don't blame Harris

It is ok to believe the women as long as you don't make it disqualifying.

[Kurt V.]

28. Great post.

[Perrenial Voter]

29. Well said. In the heat of the campaign it is important to look at the long-term effects of what is

said and done and what message that sends. I didn't personally think Al Franken needed to resign, but I think it was a noble thing that he did, because it allowed the party to hold the moral high ground on this issue. I'm not suggesting that Biden should bow out because of this, but how he handles this will matter for the party, as well as for him as a candidate.

[treestar]

31. I'm not sure I believe Flores

If she was so uncomfortable, she didn't show it at all at the time. Photos of her with Biden, one where she has her hand on his shoulder. Holding hands with arms raised in victory. Timing is very suspicious here. This allegedly took place in 2014.