If Bernie Sanders is the nominee Trump will get a 2nd term (and America will be over).

[Botany]

I might be wrong but I don't think so.

[Squinch]

1. Exactly. K and R.

[Botany]

2. And I have no doubt that both Russia and the Trump campaign are working 24/7 to make ...

... sure that Bernie will be the nominee.

[Squinch]

8. They tried last time, and even though he wasn't the candidate,

their efforts still cost us the election. And you're right.

IT'S THE DEMOCRACY, STUPID!

[She_Totally_Gets_It]

38. They already said they are. I live in the D.C. area, and the Republicans are planning an

Operation Chaos in VA since it's an open primary. They're all voting for Bernie Sanders.

When Steve Bannon was on Bill Maher last Friday, he defended Bernie Sanders left and right. Repeated the lie that Sanders was cheated in 2016 and that the DNC is corrupt. Why did he do that? Because he knows that a Sanders candidacy is sure to give Trump and the Republicans at least 30 states.

Truth is: the GOP is afraid of Biden, hence Giuliani's continued efforts to work with the Ukraine to tarnish him and his son--or, just make shit up.

The GOP is NOT afraid of Bernie Sanders, which is why they are hoping for him to be the nominee.
The GOP is also unafraid of Pete Buttigieg--all they have to do is play up the "gay angle" and there's enough homophobes and bigots around and across party lines to make a difference.

[C Moon]

49. That's why open primaries are idiotic.

[apcalc]

68. +1

[She_Totally_Gets_It]

113. Agreed. Here in Maryland, our primary is closed. As it should be.

[LArider]

235. You can

switch party affiliation at any time, so it's not really that idiotic.

[brutus smith]

50. Did it ever occur to you that bannon and the boys are using reverse psychology?

[She_Totally_Gets_It]

53. Nope! They do everything they say they're going to do, have they not? Sure.

When it comes to ultimate power, they're going to take it.

And I, for one, happen to agree with them. Bernie will give Trump at least 30 states and a landslide in the EC.

Is is unelectable. As a Warren supporter, you should know that. Elizabeth is miles ahead of Sanders on every issue and in every category. When it comes to my choice between the two, I go with Liz every single time.

Fuck Bernie Sanders. Really. Fuck him. He has been worse than Ralph Nader when it comes to outcomes for the Democratic Party. He doesn't know how to work GENUINELY with others. Bernie is about Bernie...just like Donald J. Trump.

[Squinch]

77. Right. All that money they paid in 16 to Cambridge Analytica

to boost Bernie was just to screw with our minds in 2020.

[Demsrule86]

87. He isn't going to be the nominee...I think Biden or Bloomberg will beat him ...seriously lame

results for Sanders in New Hampshire. And it won't get easier.

[Indepatriot]

143. Ironic response from a Biden supporter...

How many delegates has Joe won?

[Clash City Rocker]

170. Did you think there was only one caucus and one primary?

There are 50 states. You’ve struck out the first batter and declared yourself the winner. It doesn’t work that way.

[Indepatriot]

177. I did nothing of the sort. Perhaps you might re-read my response.

My first work on a campaign was with Walter Mondale, so I know how this works...but thanks for your concern...

[hangaleft]

206. DU members may very well vote for him

I know one who won’t. (Not me, and I’m not gonna name her. But 90% of her posts are attacks against Bernie.) And I suspect there may be a relatively small handful of others here who won’t vote for him. (Again, not me. If he’s our nominee I will vote for him. Enthusiastically! Which is the clincher that he’ll lose.)

But, I digress.

Joe and Jane Democrat on the street are gonna have a hard time voting for a socialist. And my guess is many independents will have a hard time doing so, but will pull the lever for our current tyrant. Better the devil you know and all that.

I would love to see Bernie elected president. But, America simply won’t elect a socialist candidate president. And you’re living in a fantasy world if you think they will. As bad as Trump is, the IOA (idiots of America) will give Trump a second term before they’ll give a socialist a first.

ETA — Just to be clear, I have always voted for the Democratic candidate for president (and every other office, for that matter).

[apcalc]

127. And Sanders knows it too.

[DownriverDem]

149. How can we

get his supporters to understand he will not win in November? He has so much baggage that trump & the repubs will unleash on him. They will define him before the Dem Convention. His supporters are politically naive and don't understand what will happen. trump is destroying Biden because he knows he could beat him. No one is focused on who the voters will be in November.

[jimfields33]

226. He two points from beating trump in Texas

Stop the hyperbole please!!!!!

[Laelth]

237. You can't.

Probably because it's not necessarily true.

I suspect that any of our candidates could beat Trump in 2020. That said, coattails matter, and Bernie may not be our best bet to reclaim the Senate.

But the liberal energy in our party has to go somewhere. Bernie appears to have the deep and solid support of about 25% of Democrats. These people should not be dismissed, and they will not be ignored.

-Laelth

[wisteria]

182. Yep

[pandr32]

3. +1

[katmondoo]

4. I think your right. Bernie now is the wrong time. I am sorry Bernie but it is the truth.

[irisblue]

147. I agree with you. The Florida primary is a closed one on 17 March

I'm having a hard time imagining 'socialist' anything getting the majority in that will be Senior voter state.

Enthusiasm of the rose twitter brigade regardless

[NurseJackie]

5. You're not wrong.

[Indepatriot]

6. I respectfully disagree.

I believe he or Warren are the only candidates who can beat Trump

[KSNY]

28. KSNY

Yes. If one of them drops out of the race he/she should ask supporters to support the other.

[She_Totally_Gets_It]

43. Difference is: I have every confidence that Warren supporters will oblige in good faith.

I do not hold that same view when it comes to Bernie Sanders and his supporters. I just don't.

[ramen]

166. Let us prove you wrong.

Any Sanders supporter (or any Biden supporter or Yang supporter) that does anything other than vote Democratic in November and volunteering and getting out the vote is a hapless moron. I'll be there if it's Bloomberg or Steyer or the ghost of Ronald Reagan that gets the nomination, at this point. And I'll canvas for said ghost or nonghost.

[KSNY]

198. I support both Sanders and Warren.

[Demsrule86]

91. Warren won't do that...and the maybe the Twitter folks should not have been so vile if they

wanted her support...or maybe Sanders shouldn't have said she lied...which we all know she didn't. Her supporters will decide for themselves. The Sanders campaign blew that with the script etc. I like Elizabeth Warren.

[sheshe2]

199. For me. No.

Only if he wins the GE. Otherwise no.

[brush]

44. Nah, the repugs have so much devastating oppo on him it's scary.

Which is why trump keeps pushing for Sanders to win our nomination.

Check some of it out here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287502598

[Fla Dem]

67. I fear that like in the NH primary where you could change your party affiliation at the polls,

the word is out for Trump supporters to change their affiliation and vote for Bernie in the primaries so he'll be the nominee. I'd love to know how many of those that changed their affiliation in NH voted for Bernie.

I have no proof of this, but knowing the dirty tricks the Republicans play I would be surprised if they didn't do this.

[SilasSouleII]

132. Wondering

If that's public information

[calguy]

75. Wih all due respect

I think you are extremely naïve to the political certainties here.

[Indepatriot]

146. "Here's the deal" as Joe is so fond of saying...

the political certainties so far have Biden, the "frontrunner" with 0 delegates ....and I'm the naive one...

[treefarmers]

137. It's going to be tough but Bernie can do it!

[treefarmers]

241. After the debate last night I am switching my vote to Warren

Just an FYI - After the debate last night I am switching my vote to Warren

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

7. Trump's sure fire way to a second term

Revolution be damned

[MANative]

9. Agreed n/t

[zentrum]

10. Couldn't disagree more...

...but I do think it's true of several other candidates.

As I understand it, black people were voting for Biden primarily because they reasoned Biden was the white guy other white people would vote for and so we'd get rid of Trump. But Biden seems to be really losing momentum. Big time. So I think those black voters will shift to Bernie.

I love Elizabeth but she's lost momentum too and I worry the country is still too sexist to vote for a woman. I just don't want to risk it.

As for Pete, I don't think America is ready for a First Husband. The country is too retrograde.

Bernie's support is growing among black people, Latinos and for sure, young people.

[She_Totally_Gets_It]

47. Nope. Black voters are NOT voting for Bernie Sanders. Some will. Most of us will not.

[SilasSouleII]

134. Agreed. Black voters want to defeat Trump

That means they are NOT going to vote for Bernie. My gut feeling is that they will be breaking for Bloomberg if Biden is no longer viable.

[brush]

227. Trust me, most black voters won't switch to Sanders. Bloomberg most likely.

[blueinredohio]

11. I believe so too. There's too much stuff on Bernie.

I'm afraid it will be to Trumps advantage.

[ancianita]

31. But not too much stuff on Trump? Seriously? All things weighed?

[blueinredohio]

157. Everyone knows how bad Trump is but republicans don't care. Democrats have a little more integrity.

[ancianita]

172. Point is, Bernie can sell how he'll undo IF45's damage, how he & a senate democratic majority will

stop from happening what the occupant has said he'll do "soon," and move House bills into law without filibuster, judges into courts, money back into serving taxpayers, etc. We know he can, because he did it four years ago, and his supporters, not just youth, are still around.

Just my opinion.

[blueinredohio]

190. I voted for Bernie in the 2016 primary. Trump will scream socialism and scare people shitless.

[C Moon]

54. True or not, think about how insane that statement sounds:

Because in my eyes, Trump is a prisoner sitting in the Whitehouse. He has more dirt on him than a stray dog.

[blueinredohio]

156. Agreed but this concerns voters some democrats may not vote for Bernie if they hear enough garbage.

Republicans don't care how bad Trump is they will vote for him. I'll vote blue no matter who but that's my opinion.

[cilla4progress]

12. I don't see a path

unless maybe Amy as VP? Or Val Demings, Stacy Abrams, MichelleO, Oprah (see a theme?).

Of course, this is what we thought in '16.

[She_Totally_Gets_It]

52. The only way that I might vote for Bernie Sanders if he is the nominee is it he puts

a black woman on his ticket. But because he deplores "Identity Politics" I'd be surprised at that happening. If he were smart, that's what he would do, and I would consider voting for him should that happen.

I don't think it will, though.

Bernie Sanders is unelectable. Black voters are smarter than we're given credit for.

[cilla4progress]

63. Thank you for your input...

so helpful!

I have nephews campaigning for Bernie and I asked them if they have any inside info on Bernie's VP choice.

Question: would you include Nina Turner in that list?

Also: I agree that the Dem party has taken Black voters for granted for far too long. I hope that's changing.

[NY06DemSoc]

126. Nina Turner is great!

I enjoy listening to her speak and she has an incredible passion. Bernie is already pretty passionate and I don't know that she balances the ticket in that regard.

Susan Rice would balance the ticket in a lot of regards, experienced, foreign policy, female, black, more moderate and doesn't have a significant profile in terms of the Right Wing Hate Machine. She's on their radar because "Benghazi" but I think that only resonates with the fringe who would never vote for a D anyway.

I don't know if Kamala Harris' politics or ego would make here a suitable VP but I'd support her for the role.

I think Klobuchar could do it, but her politics are less radical and I think she'd be uncomfortable. While we could count on the Gov. of MN to appoint a D in her absence, I'd be more concerned about the General election for her seat as MN is less reliably blue than MA or CA and we don't want to endanger our chances of taking (and holding) the Senate.

I also think Identity Politics is more of a curse than a blessing though.

My own feeling is that Warren would be a great VP. Though it wouldn't hurt to bring in some younger blood to deepen our bench a bit too.

[amuse bouche]

135. Nina does nothing to persuade people to support Sanders

She's a huge turnoff. It's really a shame

[NY06DemSoc]

138. While we're putting together a dream team...

I just imagined AG Kamala Harris. I want her to hunt down and prosecute every bit of malfeasance on the part of every member of the Trump administration down to the coffeve boy.

I want to see them cry as she nails their slimy hides to the wall.

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

154. I shudder at the possibility of her as press secretary

[Squinch]

83. Are you saying you won't vote for him if he's the nominee

and he doesn't have a black woman on his ticket?

Because I can't stand the guy but I'd walk barefoot over glass to vote for him instead of Filthy Donnie.

Are you saying you would stay home?

[Squinch]

104. Then it will be a vote for trump.

[Squinch]

122. Then you will be helping trump. And this isn't playing.

The Democracy is at stake. I have no respect for your position.

[TwilightZone]

116. We need everyone to vote for our nominee, regardless of who it is.

Trump must be stopped. That is the primary consideration. Every one of our candidates would be light-years better than Trump, and we need turnout for down-ticket races.

[shawn703]

117. So you'd rather have another Trump presidency than support the Democratic nominee for president

if it happens to be someone you don't completely agree with. Did you make a wrong turn somewhere and end up on the wrong discussion board?

[ancianita]

167. Killer Mike went a long way to convincing them otherwise in 2016. He's out on tour

with Run the Jewels, and will likely be talking up any Democrat who becomes the frontrunner, but he and the crowds go nuts over Bernie.

[Callado119]

13. Yup..

The looming disaster of nominating a candidate with so many liabilities can be seen by most of us. It won’t be hard to make him more unpopular than trump especially with the suburban voters we need, and the the first two contests prove he’s not bringing out young people like he promised their turnout is flat or down.

[oasis]

14. Ten years ago I was in love with Bernie, but today we are in danger

of losing our democracy. Now is not the time to roll the dice on some half-baked "revolution".

[apcalc]

130. I liked him too , when he would speak occasionally from the Senate.

My Republican friends , however, would call him the “commissar”. This is in the mid-90’s.

The oppo research on Sanders is extensive and damning.
And he knows it too.

Time to move to someone different.

[honest.abe]

15. I can imagine how it will be defending Sanders policies to skeptical voters if he is our nominee.

For someone who is on the fence between Trump and Sanders and questions how is he going to do all this stuff and not ruin the economy or blow the national debt, how should we answer that?

I guess the best argument would be something like this..

"Don't worry a President Sanders wont be able to get any of his pet policies passed anyway with a divided government... so essentially things will just continue as they are."

Ugh.

[HarlanPepper]

16. America's been over for a while

Always thought we peaked somewhere between 1945-47. It’s been managed decline ever since.

[Bayard]

26. Do you have any documentation for this idea?

[HarlanPepper]

51. Nah, just an opinion.

Cue Lee Greenwood. Didn’t mean to offend your American exceptionalism thingy.

[Squinch]

89. That was a reasonable reply to a request for any kind of support for your statement.

Oh, wait. No it wasn't

[HarlanPepper]

98. Like I care.

[Squinch]

101. Aren't you sweet.

[StevieM]

153. Bush vs. Gore and the Florida non-recount is pretty good documentation of our country's change.

Gore won and we just declared Bush the winner anyway. That is not how democracies are supposed to work.

[ZenDem]

58. Hmmmm...

What were things 'really' like in the 40's? If you happen to be a woman, POC, LGBTQ or, hell...a child!...things weren't as rosy. I was born in the 60s and things were still shitty.

I believe that in general, things are improving. The squeaky wheels are louder and have a larger format to spread their crap, but humanity is more tolerant, more accepting, more open-minded than ever before. That's likely the reason why the assholes are fighting harder and louder, but there really are more of 'us'.

[HarlanPepper]

65. Mainly an economic argument and the relative strength of our position in the world at that time.

Our situation with race was obviously fucked back then.

[ZenDem]

86. That's valid.

I was discussing the enormous gap between the perceived living wage and min wage with my son this weekend. Neither of us is in a position to complain, but how to explain the damage to society as a whole to people that believe we are currently living the 'best US economy since, like, ever!' seems impossible.

[Martin Eden]

17. I voted for Bernie in the 2016 primary

But I hoped he would stay out of it this time, and I've seen nothing to change my mind on that.

Bernie did us all a great service by making progressive policy solutions more mainstream in the Democratic Party, but he is more of a divisive figure now when what we urgently need is unity.

Also, Sanders & Biden will both turn 80 about halfway through the next presidential term. Call me an ageist, but every human being is on the decline by that age and POTUS is perhaps the most demanding job in the world (unless you're a criminal sociopath like Trump).

Nevertheless, my primary vote will go to the candidate I think has the best chance to beat Trump. I have until the Illinois primary to decide.

[renate]

92. are you me?

I voted for him in the 2016 primary too, and I also wish he had stayed out this time. He's too old, he's too socialist (I mean, please. No matter how much his supporters love him and his policies, can you really imagine a Midwestern grandparent going out on election day to stand in line to vote for him?), and unfortunately too cranky. GOPers like tough guys, so for them the bigger the asswipe a person is the better, but we like our politicians to be polite and friendly.

Obviously I would crawl over broken glass to vote for him, like I would for anybody not named Trump, but he simply cannot win a general election. He just can't. It would be an absolute wipeout for us and for all the down-ballot races as well.

[Pacifist Patriot]

188. Add me to this group.

[MH1]

196. Yup, me too.

I was really disappointed in Bernie for not doing the right thing this time.

[Martin Eden]

194. I am he as you are he as you are me

And we are all together.

I don't know that Bernie can't win the general election, because I think GOTV is more important than trying to persuade "swing" voters who still might cast their ballot for Trump.

Will Democrats stay home because they don't like Sanders?

As opposed to:

How many Bernie folks will vote Green if their man loses in the primary to a "moderate" they find unacceptable?

I don't know, but I still wish Bernie had stayed out.

[deurbano]

155. Sanders would turn 80 in his first nine months. (We have the same B-day, but not year.)

My candidate, Warren, seems unusually fit for her age--mentally and physically very agile, plus she's 8 years younger than Sanders-- but I do wish she were a bit younger. Biden will be 78 in Nov, and Bloomberg will be be 78 in two days! I'm younger than Elizabeth Warren by five years, and in addition to my extensive lack of any other presidential qualifications, I'm also too old. Again, Warren seems to be in great shape (much better than I am!), and I will happily vote for her, but I don't think it's ageist to consider age, especially for those approaching 80.

I voted for Sanders for governor (I think he got about 10%) when I lived in VT in the 1970s, and I followed his political career with interest and support after that. (I took my family to meet him at a book signing in Berkeley in the late 90s, and we talked about VT.) I started out 2016 supporting him, but switched to Clinton by the CA primary. Like you, I hoped he wouldn't run this time, and have a lot of apprehension about his prospects as nominee. The UK will now have Boris-effin-Johnson for five more years! We can't really afford another minute of the MAGAt King, much less another term.

[Martin Eden]

225. I like Warren too, and she's not too old

However, I have electability concerns about Liz.

[marble falls]

224. My story, too. Still haven't made up my mind.

[Demsrule86]

18. I agree...Warren is my second choice...but if she and Biden fail...then I will support Bloomberg as

our only chance.

[yuiyoshida]

80. I will have to say Bloomberg

and Tom Steyer are starting to look pretty good, and Bloomberg knows Trump, knows his Kryptonite...but I will vote for whoever we choose.. however, I have to agree with most in this thread, I think Trump will turn people away from Bernie...As Han Solo often said " I have a bad feeling about this!"

[Demsrule86]

95. I love Star wars!

[Squinch]

94. Warren was my first. But I think she may be done.

I agree about Bloomberg, but maybe Amy will catch fire.

I love Pete but it would be too easy to Dukakis him.

[Demsrule86]

107. That makes me sad...Warren is a good person...and did not deserve the treatment she received.

[Squinch]

121. No. She would have been great. But I'm hoping she'll end up in a really

powerful cabinet spot.

[MontanaMama]

163. And...we need a strong Senate.

We might survive as a nation if we take back the Senate but lose the WH. I don't want to consider that but its there.

[Demsrule86]

207. There is a GOP Senator in Mass...she is great in the Senate.

[Amimnoch]

19. Yep. -nt

[Cha]

204. 2nd

[onecaliberal]

20. The candidate that can win will have the support of black women.

Period! To ignore that, is to ignore history. Democrats can not win elections without them.

[Squinch]

97. I think this is true. But I also think the black female vote tends to be very pragmatic.

[Green Line]

21. I agree

Joe is my first choice, but if he falters, I'm voting for Bloomberg on super Tuesday.

[Desert grandma]

90. SAME HERE

[Cha]

221. Yeah..

[musette_sf]

22. K&R

[Scotch-Irish]

23. Exactly wrong. "BE AFRAID!!!!! BE AFRAID!!!! BE AFRAID!!!" That crap won't fly.

America is over right now. Bernie can undo some of the brainwashing that faux news has poisoned this country with.

[McKim]

33. Yes, Sanders Can Win

Yes Sanders can win and I hope he asks Warren to be Vice President. They would be a great team to make America Fair Again!!!!!

[ancianita]

39. Yes, he's VERY good at that. Don't think the young won't be all over the elders' fear of socialism!

Youth of at least two generations are going to flock to GOTV for Bernie, AND flock to be a part of this party and a new generation's government.

That is the future vision that Bernie can sell to beat Trump.

[Scotch-Irish]

46. The weird thing is, Bernie is actually just pushing more of what FDR started.

Democratic socialism is the future of America if we don't want to become (more) fascist.

[ancianita]

48. Then HE and YOUTH supporters will say THAT! He's not in any way afraid to call on the ancestors for

his support.

[Squinch]

100. The youth vote didnt show up in NH.

[ancianita]

168. There is structural for that, from what I've read. Every state has different laws about college

students voting in their state, it seems.

[Squinch]

169. There's always "a structural," though.

[ancianita]

173. Doesn't have to be, though.

[Squinch]

174. But there always is.

[ancianita]

176. Less and less, though.

[Squinch]

178. You're seeing a surge in the youth vote?

[ancianita]

187. Not yet. Doesn't mean it can't happen just because it hasn't happened yet.

[Squinch]

189. Right. Except it never does. We've all been hoping since McGovern that it would. But it doesn't.

[Demsrule86]

109. No Bernie will lose and then we are truly screwed...sure he has my vote but Trump will win.

I am very afraid and will not vote for Sanders in a primary...but I will throw my support to Bloomberg who might be able to beat Trump.

[azureblue]

141. FUD

yep Pure FUD. Stupid FUD too. OP, Go try to scare some hamster..

[Cha]

232. We Want TO BEAT trump

[question everything]

24. a repeat of McGovern in 1972

[Dave in VA]

73. Yep!

Worked my ass off for McGovern. Took the semester off from college. Went in everyday to our local headquarters and did everything I could for his election. Thought we were bringing the same type of revolution.

Got our asses kicked!

Deja Vu here we come!

[Zolorp]

25. I agree with you completely

I see no possible path to victory for Sanders in a general election.

In fact I see a trouncing at least nearly as bad as 1984, possibly 1972, and if anybody could do the unthinkable and hand Trump a unanimous Electoral College win, it is Bernie Sanders.

[awesomerwb1]

27. Not only that

but we may lose the majority in the house as well.

One question no Bernie fan can answer is why trump/gop and Russia bots/hackers are trying to help Bernie.

Crickets.

[mysteryowl]

29. No matter who our nominee is we all have to work really hard to get trump out!

There are issues with all the candidates, because, surprise, they are human!
We will need to work hard for any of our nominees.

[AtheistCrusader]

37. This. We have a monumental task before us, regardless which candidate is the tip of the spear.

There is NO easy path. No sure bet, right now.

[mysteryowl]

57. Especially! with all the voter supression the GOP does.

It is not a fair election. We have voter suppression and foreign governments messing with our elections.

Don't despair! Get active! GOTV

[Piratedog]

30. It all comes down to 20%

Who can bring the Folks that voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 but who then voted for Trump in 2016?
Who can get the moderate conservatives who would rather not vote for Trump again but will do so unless there is a better alternative?


In Michigan, Penn, Florida, Ariz, NC, and Ohio



Everything thiNg else is just noise.

[Piratedog]

40. Only a moderate will best Trump

Anyone to far left will be like Dukakis v Bush

[Piratedog]

171. I'm no BOT. Your head may be in sand

McGovern. 1972. Lost bad. Far left
Mondale. 1984. Lost bad. Far left
Dukakis. 1988. Lost bad. Far left


Clinton. 1992 and 1996. Won. Moderate
Gore. 2000. Moderate. Supreme Court decided
Kerry. 2004. Moderate. Lost but not bad
Obama. 2008 and 2012. Won. Moderate
Clinton. 2016. Lost but Russia stepped in


Forgot Carter. 1976. Won. Moderate

[progressoid]

193. McGovern. Mondale. Dukakis. Gore. Kerry. Clinton.

All had something else in common. They weren't very inspiring.

[Botany]

42. The voters who voted for Obama in '08 & '12 and then voted for Trump is not what flipped ....

... the election to Trump that was done by the Russians*. HRC got more votes in 2016 than anybody
in history except for Obama in 2008 and when you count in that 16 million democratic voters were
removed from voting prior to the election she really did win easily.


* Russia was in all 50 states and heavily in targeted states such as Wisconsin where they were in
all the way to the county level. https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/news/politics/2019/11/06/2020-elections-in-wisconsin-submit-your-questions-on-voting-dnc/4169944002/

[She_Totally_Gets_It]

32. 100 Percent Correct. You couldn't be more right. However, I don't think that's going to happen.

[jb5150]

34. How about we let the process play out ....

… Bernie may not be my first choice, but if he's the eventual nominee he's got my vote …. I'm voting blue no matter who.

[brooklynite]

35. Why don't you understand that he's a DEMOCRATIC Socialist???!!!

[Woodycall]

70. Why don't you understand that FDR was too?

[brooklynite]

82. Point to his acceptance of that title?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

110. FDR was a devout capitalist, which he made clear repeatedly.

He also made it clear that he was not a socialist. His New Deal programs were intended to recover the economy from the Depression, not to redesign the American economic structure. The left wing hated him as much as the right wing did.

[AtheistCrusader]

36. This is a very real risk with all of our candidates at the moment.

[amuse bouche]

41. I agree. I just blocked about 30 of his supporters on twitter

They are vicious. Almost as bad as MAGAts

[Calculating]

45. And I respectfully disagree

IMO Biden would be like handing the election to Trump on a silver platter. An old unexciting candidate with a bunch of potential skeletons in the closet(Hunter Biden), who will completely fail at inspiring youth turnout. I've talked to some 20 somethings and they say if the Dems select Biden they'll just stay home or vote Trump for 'The Memes'. I'm for Bernie, but realistically I think Amy might have the best shot at winning this.

[awesomerwb1]

62. 'They'll stay home" or "vote trump for the memes"

That says a lot about Sanders' support. It's Bernie or bust. Shocker. Cut your nose to spite your face.

You do realize Sanders is older than Biden right?

[MrsCoffee]

210. Bunch of potential skeletons?

Wtf? Hunter Biden?

Are you trying to push Trumped up conspiracies here?

[Calculating]

215. Trump conspiracies?

Can you objectively tell me that the Hunter Biden thing ISN'T gonna be an issue in the general? You just know it will become the new 'Hillary Emails' thing to scare the gullible.

[MrsCoffee]

216. They got more on Jane Sanders than they do Hunter Biden.

But you go with that conspiracy shit and let the GOP call the shots.

[Woodycall]

55. And yet, Wednesday, February 12, there's this...

General Election: Trump vs. Biden Quinnipiac Biden 50, Trump 43 Biden +7
General Election: Trump vs. Sanders Quinnipiac Sanders 51, Trump 43 Sanders +8
General Election: Trump vs. Warren Quinnipiac Warren 48, Trump 44 Warren +4
General Election: Trump vs. Bloomberg Quinnipiac Bloomberg 51, Trump 42 Bloomberg +9
General Election: Trump vs. Buttigieg Quinnipiac Buttigieg 47, Trump 43 Buttigieg +4
General Election: Trump vs. Klobuchar Quinnipiac Klobuchar 49, Trump 43 ,Klobuchar +6

[Piratedog]

74. National polls do not matter

[mwooldri]

56. Are there head to head polls Bernie Vs DJT in all states?

We see plenty of polls where X Democratic potential candidate Vs DJT beats DJT easily but what about on a state by state basis? Could Bernie (or any other candidate for that matter) beat DJT in the electoral college?

I believe the "Generic Democrat" Vs DJT beats the Trump - so things look good in that regard but there's no such thing as a "Generic Democrat".

[mikeysnot]

60. Duly Noted

[James48]

61. I totally disagree.

And why do we keep having these discussions?

MUCH OF AMERICA WANTS BERNIE!

Let's just see how it goes, without all these negative waves, ok Moriarity?

[yaesu]

64. Um, yes, you're wrong. nt

[handmade34]

66. think on this...

Bernie is my Senator... most of Vermont likes him

Vermont is kind of a world of its own

as liberal as some of us are and as much as we keep electing Bernie... the people of Vermont still can't implement the policies Bernie is proposing... what does that say about Alabama or Florida or what have you state...

Bernie can win in the Northeast maybe and maybe other states but we will lose the electoral college and that is the only thing we need to be concerned about right now...

the Republicans will be vicious... they will dig up stuff, they will lie, they will feed on people's fears... they will do that no matter who the nominee is but with Bernie, it goes to a whole other level

a Bernie nominee is dangerous and wrong at this time... I know it in my bones and my bones do not lie

[apcalc]

185. I do not see him winning my swing state of PA.

[jg10003]

69. saying "I'm not trump" won't win. we need a positive message

Unlike the other candidates, except maybe Warren, Sanders has a message that is more than just “I’m not trump.” Trump appealed to the anti-establishment frustrations the working class. But he did it
by inflaming their fears, anxieties, and prejudices. Sanders addresses people’s frustrations by giving them hope. Remember that in 2016 many trump supporters said they would vote for Sanders, even though they had opposite positions on most issues.
trump and Sanders appeal to the same concerns of those who feel left behind by the establishment of both parties. But Sanders does it in a positive and hopeful way.

[MrsCoffee]

212. His message has been that the Democratic Party is a failure.

He is the most divisive candidate we could nominate and it would be a disaster for all down ticket candidates.

There is nothing positive in Sanders demeanor or messaging.

By the way....that “establishment” boogeyman is laughable. Bernie Sanders is as establishment as they come. Propped up by the Democratic Party for over three decades.

Thanks, but No Thanks.

[BusyBeingBest]

72. I think Bernie can win. Am I completely confident, no.

But then I'm not completely confident about any of our field. But yeah, America would be over. It already sort of is, in some respects.

[johnthewoodworker]

76. Lets all wring our hands together. If (insert candidate name) wins we

will never beat trump. We will never unite against a republican unless the one candidate wins who is supported by a majority of black, hispanic, Asian, white, gay, straight, young, old, women, men, independent voters. No one candidate is going to appeal to every demographic.

[berksdem]

78. Agree...

I dont see Bernie winning the much needed swing states. My own home of PA would not go Bernie but I guess stranger things have happened. I will vote blue no matter what but my gut tells me Bernie would get beat by Trump.

[rwsanders]

79. And you can see into the future because of what?

And of course you are right, because the Clinton nomination worked out so well.

Outside of the "bubble" 71% of democratic voters want more progressive policies.
There is no middle according to recent analysis, it is a matter of motivating the base and attracting voters that would otherwise stay home. This round even Robert Reich says a "moderate" won't do that.

[the_sly_pig]

81. I'm voting for the democratic nominee.. don't care who it is.

We won the popular vote in 2016 and we’ll do it again in 2020. The electoral college needs to do their friggen job and vote for the party representing the constitution, law and order.

Picking on one candidate that will “lose the election for us” is juvenile.

[Alsteen]

84. Imho ...

As near as i can figure it the ONLY nominee who can successfully beat Mr. Trump is Michael Bloomberg. Nice moderate Republican that sane folks will gladly vote for to get rid of the orange menace. Not a real Democrat but it will have to do for the nonce.

[More_Cowbell]

85. Bill Clinton didn't win any of the February contests

So I'm not writing anyone off yet; I need to wait until Super Tuesday.

I also would like to know who Sanders would choose as a running mate. His choice for VP would matter more than most, to me, with his age and health issues.

[BlueJac]

88. K&R

You are probably correct, he will be labeled a socialist or communist, but Trump will use both as weapon's. Sad but true, the end could be near for this country!

[NoMoreRepugs]

93. I don't think we can take that chance and nominate Bernie. Just an opinion.

[extvbroadcaster]

96. I agree. Bernie can't win

He's old. He's a socialist. He's your crazy grandpa who yells at clouds. Trump will run over him like a truck. It's Bloomberg or it's 4 more years of Trump.

[Mazeltov Cocktail]

99. I agree...

I, of course, will vote for him...but I hope he isn't the candidate.

[Cicada]

103. We were certain Trump couldn't win. Predictions are error prone.

[MrsCoffee]

213. He didn't fucking win. He and the GOP committed high crimes and treason.

Bribery, blackmail, fraud, treason....

Trump didn’t win shit. He STOLE the election with the help of the Republican Party, the Russians, the director of the FBI and many others.

[Pepsidog]

105. If a potted plant is the Democratic nominee then I vote potted plant.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

106. Agreed.

As much as I like Sanders as a man and his proposed policies, the word "socialist" is enough to scare away half the independent voters, especially the older ones.

For more than 50 years we were conditioned to react like Pavlov's dog to the word "communist," hating and fearing that which we didn't understand, but knowing that the only acceptable response is "duck and cover."

I have heard the Right Wing conflate the terms "socialist" and "communist" with increasing frequency. If Bernie is our nominee that can only increase until only the latter term is used to describe Sanders.

[Awsi Dooger]

108. It would be a repeat of Andrew Gillum in Florida

Tons of initial enthusiasm, some great speeches, some fiery debate performances. Moderates rationalizing that perhaps they were wrong.

Encouraging poll numbers

We'd be feeling pretty good about ourselves until those opposition commercials started to show up, even more despicable and devastating than forecast. The word socialist dominating social media and mainstream media and all the arguments at work.

Eventually you realize turnout means nothing. The enthusiasm is contained in small boxes. Middle America quietly shows up and rejects.

Narrow defeat that should have been avoided given a more competent choice during the primaries

Sanders supporters mean well but they don't understand situational realities. The swing states including Florida and the crucial midwestern states all have more self-identified conservatives than liberals, just like the nation itself. We'd be forcing a socialist into states that have 4-11% more conservatives than liberals. The math doesn't work. Fear would dictate the outcome.

Amy Klobuchar is very similar to Gwen Graham, the moderate who would have defeated Ron DeSantis in Florida if only we'd given her the chance. None of this Sanders stuff is theoretical to those of us who followed Florida in 2018.

[totodeinhere]

114. There is no "might" about it. You are wrong. n/t

[lucca18]

115. I agree. Electability over ideology.

The top three issues:

1) Defeating Trump
2) Beating Trump
3) Making sure Trump loses

[bitterross]

119. I think you are correct.

That's not a popular opinion with many people here. It's true I believe, though.

[EveHammond13]

120. I can't understand anyone who thinks otherwise. PURE INSANITY.

[lillypaddle]

123. Agree 100%

[Dr Rise]

124. Forget the centrist Dems like Biden, like Klobuchar, like Buttigieg

Bernie will win easily if nominated. You're wrong about Sanders' supporters ... we WILL vote for whomever the nominee is. BTW, can anyone give me dirt on Sanders? I don't think there is any. The opposition can only scare people about socialism, which we will get to define for everyone.

[Indepatriot]

161. They would call Ronald Reagan a socialist if he rose from the dead and ran as a Democrat.!

[Piratedog]

175. You're right but that don't mean they'll vote for one

[Indepatriot]

183. That's OK with me.

Courting Republican votes in this day is a fool's errand.

[Cha]

239. Self described

[apcalc]

186. The R's have tons of oppo research on him.

[mchill]

228. How Trump would destroy Bernie Sanders

<snip>

A week after the 2016 election, Kurt Eichenwald of Newsweek noted that, of strategic necessity, Hillary Clinton had treated Sanders with extreme gentility. Trump would not have been so kind, Eichenwald continued:

So what would have happened when Sanders hit a real opponent, someone who did not care about alienating the young college voters in his base? I have seen the opposition book assembled by Republicans for Sanders, and it was brutal. The Republicans would have torn him apart. And while Sanders supporters might delude themselves into believing that they could have defended him against all this, there is a name for politicians who play defense all the time: losers.

Here are a few tastes of what was in store for Sanders, straight out of the Republican playbook. He thinks rape is A-OK. In 1972, when he was 31, Sanders wrote a fictitious essay in which he described a woman enjoying being raped by three men. Yes, there is an explanation for it—a long, complicated one, just like the one that would make clear why the Clinton emails story was nonsense. And we all know how well that worked out.

Then there’s the fact Sanders was on unemployment until his mid-30s, and that he stole electricity from a neighbor after failing to pay his bills, and that he co-sponsored a bill to ship Vermont’s nuclear waste to a poor Hispanic community in Texas, where it could be dumped. You can just see the words “environmental racist” on Republican billboards. And if you can’t, I already did. They were in the Republican opposition research book as a proposal on how to frame the nuclear waste issue.

<snip>

https://thebulwark.com/this-is-how-trump-would-destroy-bernie-sanders/

[MrsCoffee]

214. Oh for fucks sake he does not walk on water.

“I don’t think there is any”.

“socialism, which we will get to define for everyone”

So much fanatical delusion in one post.

[ehrnst]

242. So, tell us, why do you think the GOP is promoting Bernie?

The team that rigged the GOP primaries accuses Democrats of rigging Iowa against Sanders


Republicans claim Nancy Pelosi is intentionally helping Joe Biden and hurting Bernie Sanders by delaying the Senate impeachment trial

Trump and His Aides Focused for Now on 2 Rivals (Neither Is the Front-Runner)

Republican strategist Karl Rove says Bernie Sanders could beat Donald Trump in 2020

Republicans pray for Bernie as Democratic nominee

[Kurt V.]

125. oh boy

[nancy1942]

128. I agree with you.

A recipe for another disaster. America is already on the brink.

[krny9]

129. I disagree

Not sure if you have some magic crystal ball -- all the polls show that he will beat Trump handily. I think we over analyze and triangulate too much. This is what lead to the debacle in 2016. Vote for who you believe is the right candidate. I think it is Sanders.

[Gothmog]

131. I strongly agree with the OP and I am very worried about sanders killing down ballot candidates

If sanders is the nominee, trump will win 45+ states and we will have a Speaker of the House named Kevin McCarthy

[Alliepoo]

133. I agree with you, Bot!!

[notinkansas]

136. Well, I think you might be wrong.

As well as a lot of other people.

Vote blue no matter who.

[Still In Wisconsin]

139. I agree, Bernie would mean electoral suicide.

If Bernie is nominated and runs on his "revolution," Trump will carry 40 states and have upwards of 350 electoral votes. Bernie would also probably mean enough down-ticket losses to hand the House and Senate to the Republicans, along with several state legislatures. The latter is quite troublesome in a census year as this would give the Republicans the ability to gerrymander state elections for many cycles to come. Bernie's a loner in the Senate because he wants to be, and that's fine but as the de facto leader of the party he'd be a disaster, because, well, Bernie cares about Bernie.

No thanks. I'd vote for anyone else in the primary, even Gabbard.

[tiredtoo]

140. I have enough stress in my life at this time.

Please stop the circular firing squad so i can relax from politics for a bit and tend to personal matters.

[azureblue]

142. yeah, right, sure - Change the attacks from Biden

To Sanders. Gawd, who pays you to spread this crap. Your game - attack who ever is out front. Yawn...

[Chicago1980]

144. I hate these posts.

You're not helping with your cynicism.

If you and anyone else with any ounce of sense votes blue no matter who... we can win.

[jalan48]

145. LOL. And if we nominate a Centrist and that Centrist loses to Trump

we can blame Bernie or his supporters for the loss.

[Dream Girl]

148. Bernie don't give a f**k

He's got his $$$ a sliver of a chance to become president. Adoration of millions and all that, so it's all good for him. If it don't work out for him, then oh well, he's 78 and had a good run. Not so much for the rest of us.He don't care.

[ihaveaquestion]

150. So much for "I'll vote for our nominee, who ever that is."

EVERYONE must vote for the Democratic Nominee. Who. Ever. It. Is. PERIOD!

[CaptainTruth]

151. Sadly, I also don't think Sanders can beat Trump. Why? ...

Trump & the GOP have been sending out the "America will never be a socialist country" message for quite a while now, & it whips the GOP base into a frenzy. (And resonates with enough Independents to make a difference, that's the key.) They equate socialism with communism. I have an otherwise intelligent & caring Christian (really) family member who has posted some really anti-socialism crap on Facebook. It's all about the "failure of socialism" in other countries that left citizens poor & destitute, when in reality, it was the corruption of the government (& politicians lining their own pockets at taxpayer expense) that created the poverty "failure" in those countries. (Ponder the absolute freaking irony of that for a while ... please ... just try to do it ... it makes my freaking brain hurt.)

And this is why I don't think Sanders can beat Trump. It's not because Sanders has any massive shortcomings, I'm sure a Sanders presidency would be a fine one ... it's because Trump & the GOP will pull out the "socialism stick" & beat Bernie bloody with it (figuratively speaking, of course) & in the process convince enough Independents that "socialism is evil" that Bernie will lose. And, if you don't believe that it's Independents that decide our elections today ... you really need to take a deep dive into party registration numbers & election results by party (or "non-party&quot . "Independents" are now the largest voting block.

It's also important to note that the Independents who decide our elections are not highly ideological, or highly partisan. They can be easily persuaded to vote D/R based on arguments that they consider "convincing" (whether factual or not) & that decision is often more emotional than intellectual. The "anti-socialism" argument can be made in a way that is very emotional, even when it is 100% non-factual.

Just to be clear: MY 100% GOAL IS TO DEFEAT TRUMP AND SAVE OUR COUNTRY!

I realize some folks here may not agree with my analysis of the situation, but I truly hope we all agree on the goal we are trying to achieve.

[maryallen]

152. Disagree.

There is no evidence that your accusations would occur. Bernie has been around a long time, serving Vermont as a mayor, a U.S. Rep. to Congress, and a Senator. He has been re-elected to office many times by the people of Vermont. If you have proof that Bernie would cause the downfall of American democracy, please state your reasons.

[Indepatriot]

158. Is Botany actually Nostradamus?

Cause otherwise His/Her opinion is only worth the digital space it inhabits. History tells us that nearly every time the Democrats nominate the "safe, pragmatic" candidate they lose. Mondale (who I first volunteered for), Dukakis, Gore, HRC, all "pragmatic centrists" who lost. Bill Clinton would probably have lost too without Ross Perot funneling off votes. When we go big, we win> BERNIE 2020!

[ouija]

160. If Trump wins

It’s an indictment on America not Sanders.

[LisaM]

159. It could also be the end of the Democratic party.

I think that's one of his goals, anyway. I've thought that for five years.

Can you see him as the titular head of a party he pretty much despises? At a time when the Democratic party platforms are in line with most American voters, and when a Democratic congress has flexed its knuckles? Poof, that will all go away if he's the head of the party.

[wisteria]

181. Yes, Sanders and his supporters are going to push out the leadership and Moderates from the party

They won't work with them. IMO

[Galraedia]

162. Bullshit

I remember about 4 months before the election in 2016 polls showing Bernie Sanders having a better chance winning the election and Hillary Clinton losing to Donald Trump. I ignored it and Hillary Clinton eventually did lose. Democrats need to stop looking at Sanders as the enemy. While I may not like all of Sander's supporters, he has a large base that is motivated to vote for him. I will support him or anyone else in the general election.

[IronLionZion]

164. Is that what happened in 2016?

[MyMission]

165. Absolutely disagree and shame on you!

The same can be said for any democratic candidate. Most of us fear each will cost us votes of some segment or other.

Your post could have, and should have said " If Bernie Sanders is the nominee, I FEAR rump will get a 2nd term (and America will be over). It's your fear that made you post that. Others who agree with you fear the same. Those of us who disagree are clearly more open minded and accepting, but also fearful.

I've noted a lot of Bernie"haters" at DU, perhaps because he's an independent rather than an avowed Democrat, or perhaps because he's a challenge to the status quo. He's not my choice but I'd vote for him in a heartbeat...no matter who, vote blue !!!

The pendulum swings. One of my profound observations and favorite expressions. Its' momentum allowed for rump to get elected. I see it swinging in the other direction, to someone who will be the antithesis of him. He certainly motivates and fires up a large number of people who will turn out to vote for him.

And shame on Hillary for bashing him too.

Your post made me wish du had a Not recommended button as well as a recommended.

I understand your fears, but it's not a helpful or hopeful post.

[wisteria]

179. I agree Trump will be reelected

But, I don't think Trump is going to last his entire four years, and at some point he is no longer going to be useful to the Republicans.
I like to think of Sanders as the new McGovern, and Trump as Nixon. History may well repeat itself.

[njhoneybadger]

180. I think your Right

[Runningdawg]

184. At this point the only thing necessary to save America is for EVERYONE

to push the big blue button on election day - even it if the name attached is your worst enemy.
Otherwise, it won't be Trump who kills this country.

[Progressive dog]

191. I don't think you're wrong.

That seems to be what Trump thinks, too.

[Cha]

192. KR!

[highplainsdem]

195. K&R

[DesertRat]

197. I think you're right

and it's a frightening thought.

[jcmaine72]

200. Oh bullpucky!

Bernie is the only one of the Democratic candidates who can realistically take a significant portion of Dotard's disillusioned WWC base away from him. He's also the most popular Democratic candidate among voters 30 or younger. The key to victory will ultimately be turnout, no matter who the Democratic nominee is.

[JudyM]

205. Truth, and right to the point.

[Happy Hoosier]

209. What? By telling them that it's not their fault they are racists?

You are kidding yourself, IMO. For every voter Sanders brings in, he'l lose two, IMO.

I hope you are right and I am wrong. But I don't think that's the case.

[dchill]

201. I expected a longer dissertation...

...on your over-the-top headline.

[cwydro]

202. I don't think we have to worry about it.

But I agree.

[pattyloutwo]

203. Nah

I don’t think it’s productive or helpful for us to say trump will win. Even if he’s not our preferred candidate, we’ll fight like hell to defeat Trump.

PS: I don’t like the sexism but I understand the pull toward his policies.

[BlueMTexpat]

208. I don't like to be quite so dogmatic.

But then, I am pretty confident that Sanders will NOT be the nominee ... for many reasons.

We have some excellent candidates. If Democrats STICK TOGETHER and VOTE FOR whoever is the nominee, that person can win. That's the truth. It is when we have people breaking off into factions that we don't win.

The Thug-in-Chief is indeed intimidating. It's time to call his bluff. But it is NOT time to begin being stampeded into something we'll regret, e.g., supporting Bloomberg over all other candidates.

If I am wrong - and I'm pretty sure that I will not be - and Bernie IS the Dem nominee, I'm afraid that I must follow my own advice. But I'm quite confident that will not have to happen.

[ProfessorPlum]

211. this is a change election

and Sanders represents a lot of change for the better. He will have wide support from progressives and independents.

[MrsCoffee]

217. Yeah, just like he ushered in the '18 Blue Wave.

Not.

[thesquanderer]

218. I prefer Warren, but think Bernie might do better against Trump than Warren would.

At least that's what polls show so far. I'll be keeping an eye on the polls as my own primary day gets closer.

[Botany]

219. Look if Bernie is the nominee I will vote for and support him but he will get hammered by Trump ...

... in the general election in a landslide. Again I hope I am wrong about all of this.

[Gothmog]

220. A Sanders candidacy simply guarantees a Trump second term

I agree with this part of the endorsement

Link to tweet

Sanders is the only clear non-starter. It’s impossible not to regard the Vermont senator in a Trumplike mold—he seldom has shown an ability to build consensus and threatens to use executive orders extensively, just like Trump. It’s also doubtful he could assemble a highly qualified Cabinet, meaning he’d essentially be the left wing version of Trump: isolated, angry, unable to work with others and showing too little respect for dissenting opinions. A Sanders candidacy simply guarantees a Trump second term.

[gopiscrap]

222. welcome to DU

[lees1975]

223. You would be wrong

Chris Hayes and MSNBC report that Bernie has the widest lead over Trump head to head at 51-43 along with Bloomberg.

[Polybius]

229. How could you support Warren and not like Bernie?

He's supposed to be our backup choice.

[Botany]

231. " our backup choice"

When did I sign up with your group?

Bernie as the nominee is a kamikaze mission. Now the shot of sake, speeders, and
beautiful girls waving as the plane takes off might make you feel good but at the end
of the day you will be dead. See post 220.

[mchill]

230. 150 million Americans have health insurance they like

One of the arguments for M4all—“those insurance companies can take that away.”

Guess what? Bernie wants to do just that. Take it away.

Oh the irony.

[Gothmog]

233. This stunt will piss off a ton of voters

Link to tweet

?s=20

[Botany]

234. Bernie Sanders is on the record of wanting to stop fracking

Yes, fracking is dirty, it pollutes, natural gas when burned produces greenhouse gases,
but it employees and or pays tons of people in NY, PA, WV, MD, VA, KY, IL, & IN and they
all would vote against Bernie.

With Bernie @ the top of ticket even with the biggest crook in American History running
against him we would get slaughtered.

[Gothmog]

236. Has sanders condemned this stunt yet?

Link to tweet

?s=20

[dalton99a]

238. Kick

[Gothmog]

240. And sanders would kill down ballot candidate and we will have Speaker Kevin McCarthy

Link to tweet

?s=20