Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumIt's Easy to See Why Bernie is So Widely Attacked.
From the boardrooms of Wall Street, to the print and electronic media, to the Democratic Underground - people of all interests are sounding the alarm about Sen. Bernie Sanders as he takes an early and slight lead in this race.
Whats the cause for concern among all these folks? Understandably, bankers and CEOs and laissez faire Capitalist types are nervous about the threat to their golden rice bowls, but what about everybody else?
Perhaps the idea of a revolution is something that scares comfortable people. Change is difficult, and no one gladly seeks it, but of course many of us political junkies at DU acknowledge the absolute need for deep and substantive change.
But the presidency of Donald Trump has lowered the bar for governance to the point that an actual billionaire is being trotted out to go against the fake billionaire. And from all quarters - the media certainly, and even DU - flow caution and relief as the hard work of a political revolution can be averted, slipping comfortably back into a vague campaign to make some cap-and-trade rules and tinker with the Affordable Care Act.
The Liberal Media, for its part, is happy to go after Trump as the cause of Americas problems, while of course the reality is that hes merely the flowering of something thats been growing for decades, something not discussed much within the two political parties. Who can beat Trump? is the wrong question; Who can turn us away from authoritarianism? is a better one. The best questions need to be asked, but they rarely are.
Playing the electoral game, but not very well, brought us Trump in 2016. Maybe its time to be bold not with political calculus, but with a commitment to a better world in the 21st Century.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Love-All
(63 posts)and started supporting him, we can beat trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,273 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
jr1118x
(97 posts)It would be one thing if he was being attacked by Wall St and the Republicans but the Establishment Democrats are shameless in the attacks. They know Bernie is not for sale and that frightens them. I really think leadership would rather lose to Trump than a BS presidency.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)It's only 'his party' when convenient for him.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Bernie's been caucusing with Dems the whole time.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
She knows exactly what she was saying.
As for his votes.
Brady Bill voted against 5 times.
Russian sanctions. No.
The Magnitsky act. No
Amber Alert. No.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)He has never served as a Democrat, and doesn't consider himself to be one.
But since you brought Bloomberg up, I'm not Bloomberg fan, but I don't think that he's ever been a candidate promoted by Russia.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jr1118x
(97 posts)Here is what he had to say at the CNN Town Hall
" At a CNN town hall last month, Sanders was asked why he was running as a Democrat even though he has never run as a Democrat except in the last presidential race.
Lets set the record straight. I am a member of the Democratic leadership in the United States Senate. Ive been a member of the Democratic caucus in the Senate for the last 13 years and in the House for 16 years before that. won the Democratic nomination in my state, but in Vermont, I have chosen to run as an independent because it goes way, way back, Sanders answered."
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)... he said in 2016 that he was running as a Democrat because he wouldn't get media attention without doing so, and also wanted to use the political 'machinery' that the Dems already had in place.
He also said years ago: "After everything I've said about the Democratic party, I'd be a hypocrite if I ever ran on their ticket."
I remember that quote well - it was my sig line during the 2016 primaries.
As I said, Bernie only identifies himself as a Democrat when it's personally convenient.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
sheshe2
(83,355 posts)Yep.
Plus in 2020 he became a Democrat again to run for President and in the very same breath he registered for his run for his Senate seat as an Independent. Confusing, isn't it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dalton99a
(81,073 posts)"The Democratic Party ideologically bankrupt, they have no ideology. Their ideology is opportunism.
- Interview with Vermont Affairs magazine, 1986
"The Democratic and Republican parties are tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum, they both adhere to an ideology of greed and vulgarity."
- Op-ed in the New York Times, January 1989
"It would be hypocritical of me to run as a Democrat because of the things I have said about the party."
- Socialist Scholars Conference in New York City, April 1990
Why should we work within the Democratic Party if we dont agree with anything the Democratic Party says?
- Socialist Scholars Conference in New York City, April 1990
I am extremely proud to be an independent. The fact that I am not a Democrat gives me the freedom to speak out on the floor of the House, to vote against both the Democratic and Republican proposals.
- U.S. House of Representatives in 1990
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)... where that came from.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Ron Green
(9,821 posts)None of them is false. Sanders is someone who has cared about the built-in injustice of this nation all his life, and he certainly doesnt put party above country.
As a Democratic candidate for office some years ago Im keenly aware of the culpability of any major party in the maintenance of inequality and unfairness in our country. Its a conundrum that those who seek power are not often good people, and its good people we need.
I know Bernie pisses off a lot of folks, especially here on DU, but I really think hes got a huge amount of heart in this fight, and that his words are what needs to be said from the White House.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
His own words.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
awesomerwb1
(4,256 posts)So does the Democratic party. What an silly answer.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)That is astounding.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
OliverQ
(3,363 posts)He's certainly more of a Democrat than Joe Manchin is.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BlueWI
(1,736 posts)The biggest risk for Sanders is that moderate Democrats won't support him. I actually think he'll do good enough among Republicans and independents to win in a GE. But it's moderate and conservative Democrats that are more likely to abandon the ticket in unsustainable numbers if Sanders is nominated, or at least not expend the effort needed to win a close race.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
PatSeg
(46,804 posts)that frightens them"??? Seriously? No, they are afraid that Trump will win reelection, if Bernie is the nominee.
AND the Democratic party is not "his own party". It is the party he adopts temporarily when he runs for president and the party that he disparages the rest of the time.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NoDakLinda
(45 posts)From NDLinda
BERNIE SANDERS is ahead, send up a flare, tell the media with political pundits (all the news all day long) who are talking about people being just fantastic that came in third or fourth while making excuses about WHY Bernie won? And some are convinced that Bernie lost since he did better last time. They dont seem to comprehend that this is a butterfly campaign, and unlike last time, the drop-outs delegates can go wherever.
Among many other complaints the commentators whine, If Bernie wins where will he take the party? Could I answer that? I would say, some of us think that maybe hell take the party back to what the party is supposed to stand for, you know, main street not wall street?
In the pundits opinion the Democratic nominee needs to be a moderate because a liberal cant beat Trump. WHAT? We need Trump running against himself. Is this some silly way of saying that only someone who is thoroughly sold-out can beat Trump.
Well, thanks for all the bad advice, but even if we do need a moderate wingnut to defeat Trump, why bother? Its all sick, and I dont mean that in a good way.
Oh, and now, some are claiming to support healthcare for all. Weve heard that one before, as for as, if you like your healthcare plan you can keep it goes, that wont work. Understanding that healthcare pricing is a prerequisite to any discussion about healthcare for all. In 1993, President Bill Clinton pushed for universal health care to lower the Medicare budget. The government would control the costs of doctor bills and insurance premiums. We didnt get that, and we have not solved the Healthcare Crisis. We wont unless we control the overall healthcare costs that will remain poorly controlled until we have oversight.
Taiwans single-payer NHI system enabled Taiwan to manage health spending inflation the resulting savings largely offset the incremental cost of covering the previously uninsured. The NHI consistently receives a 70 percent public satisfaction rate.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Laelth
(32,017 posts)Of course, his opponents are trying to beat him. What would you expect?
-Laelth
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
xmas74
(29,658 posts)Maybe if he officially switched his affiliation within the Senate as Democratic people wouldn't be as upset.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
candidates get attacked.
"If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen."
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Qutzupalotl
(14,230 posts)We need to vet our candidates now.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)for the Democratic Party is just.... well, I dont really have the words for it. Dystopian, maybe.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Devil Child
(2,728 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
wackadoo wabbit
(1,160 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)... "but what about him" so soon?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)I'm not sure I get what you mean, but I am talking specifically about Bloomberg and it has nothing to do with whether he can beat my preferred candidate. He is a racist authoritarian who destroys lives of black and brown people, and he should not have any traction as a Democrat.
I'm horrified that so many people are defending him, and reassured that I am not the only one horrified by it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)... is that is see a lot of Bernie supporters responding to criticisms about him by criticizing one of the other candidates.
There are a lot of people who are horrified by Bernie using the Dem party to further his own political ambitions when convenient, and then bashing that party while running on their ticket.
And I assure you I am not the only one horrified by that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)rules.Yes, the fear of four more years is real and we must do all in our power to stop Trump from getting them, as a first step. But no, Bloomberg is not the way. No, he is no insurance. No, we can not and must not betray our principles.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Still In Wisconsin
(4,450 posts)If Sanders is the nominee the entire rust belt along with PA FL and AZ are gone. Trump could well lose the popular vote to Sanders, but just ask President Hillary Clinton how that worked out.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
JudyM
(29,122 posts)and he wins MI, at a minimum, hands down. As weve discussed
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Still In Wisconsin
(4,450 posts)When he loses WI, IA, PA, NC, FL, AZ, maybe even MN it won't matter.
Sanders is suicide.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
OliverQ
(3,363 posts)Currently no Democrat is winning Iowa, NC, AZ, or Florida. Bloomberg is doing worse than Bernie in Iowa.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
OliverQ
(3,363 posts)No Centrist candidate has ever won the General Election in the 21st Century so you want to try another Centrist?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Zolorp
(1,115 posts)With Sanders as the nominee there is a real possibility that Trump could be the second president in history to win the electoral college unanimously.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JudyM
(29,122 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Zolorp
(1,115 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JudyM
(29,122 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
frazzled
(18,402 posts)Its not helping your cause. Its actually part of the problem.
My problem with Sanders is precisely the issue of authoritarianism he exudes and ideological rigidity he displays. It is why he has accomplished none of the things he has been talking about for 40 years, and why he would accomplish none of what he is espousing if elected.
Honestly, your argument fails to capture any of the reasons why so many Democrats are currently not supporting him.
Telling us why we are wrong is just another demonstration of the condescending, my-way-or-the- highway attitude that turns many off. Youre essentially calling people deluded capitalists.
If that criticism makes you uncomfortable, try this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/08/opinion/sunday/bernie-sanders-2020-campaign.html
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MFGsunny
(2,356 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Ron Green
(9,821 posts)what sort of administration he might bring. And of course theres no way he could have, from within the Senate, accomplished what hes been talking about for decades; that will take the will of lots of people through their representatives. However, many have been made aware of some cures and correctives for end-stage capitalism through his words there.
Sorry I couldnt get past the Times paywall to read your link. Seems my $300 a year for their Sunday copies doesnt get me in. But I know theyre pretty worried, too.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
frazzled
(18,402 posts)I was going to post extracts for you, but Ill spare you the pain.
You should drop the Sunday paper; its the least interesting of the week. Stick to the weekdays. Thats where the interesting stuff is.
PS: If you get the Sunday Times, youll find the piece in the Sunday opinion pages.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dansolo
(5,376 posts)About what sort of administration he might bring. It will be full of unqualified sycophants who will attack everyone who dares question their leader.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
betsuni
(25,138 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dem2
(8,166 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Ideological rigidity is causing a lot of problems in the US.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TwilightZone
(25,342 posts)Pretty much every candidate still in the race on the Democratic side.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Skittles
(152,967 posts)that could be it too
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
OliverQ
(3,363 posts)Certainly not polling. Certainly not the failure of all Centrists to win this century.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
krissey
(1,205 posts)It is a concern that nothing will get done and more damage to the country.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
gulliver
(13,142 posts)Sanders is one of these guys who always attacks others and calls it self defense. He has two basic attacks: 1) You're an oppressor or, 2) You're on the side of the oppressor (because you've been bought). No one can win. Only Sanders is right.
Sanders might win the nomination and might even win the election, but I doubt the former a lot and the latter even more. I'll vote for him if he gets the nomination, of course. I just think he'll lose in the GE in a landslide.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(112,920 posts)of some politicians policies. There is only ONE candidate the financial industry truly fears and it is Elizabeth Warren. They know she knows exactly what they do and how they do it and how government is involved.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jr1118x
(97 posts)I love watching her in hearings making them squirm. Its hard to imagine her back in the day being a conservative as hard as she fights for the people in that sector.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
blm
(112,920 posts)Many were pro-choice, pro-environment, pro-civil rights.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TexasTowelie
(111,315 posts)I think pragmatism will prevail. February's flavor on the month will melt in March.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KPN
(15,587 posts)accounts anyway? Personally, I dont see any increased risk over what exists already by way of a relatively loosely regulated financial industry propped up by what will ultimately be unsustainable monetary and tax policy. Wall Street is the worlds largest casino and the odds are heavily stacked in the houses favor. 2008 wasnt an aberration. Bear markets, corrections, crashes and recessions occur and they will occur in the future regardless of who wins the nomination this year and the WH. The current bull market cant last forever and wont.
Is it possible a Sanders or Warren presidency might speed the arrival of a bear market/recession. Sure, but its coming at some point, likely sooner than later anyway.
Im retired and partly dependent on our retirement investments. Im being conservative and minimizing risk/exposure already. As a result, Ive missed the majority of the gains since tRump stole the election, but our retirement isnt threatened either. Bottom line is that the free money isnt going to flow forever either way. Exclaiming that it wont if Sanders gets nominated/elected ignores that reality and amounts to misrepresentation and fear-mongering in my opinion.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Dem2
(8,166 posts)Not a revolutionary.
He will surely not accomplish much as president, just as you have noted the other Democrats likely won't either. Most of us don't see the massive dichotomy that you describe. Bernie just promises more, knowing he can't possibly deliver on such promises. He says what people want to hear. If he's annoying to some it's because many of his followers think he has some magical formula for accomplishing things, even though he hasn't proven that ability in congress. I'm as cynical of Bernie as I am of any other candidate.
But, we're in a state of emergency right now and the biggest consideration above all else is kicking the psychopath/fascist out of office. If Bernie can do that, fine, but don't expect the blame-game, where it's always someone else's fault when things don't go his way, to seem anything less than annoying to many Democrats. We already hear similar whining from the Pendejo Naranja.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Farmer-Rick
(10,072 posts)By the filthy rich propaganda.
See these filthy rich are perfectly happy giving a multimillionaire $10 billion of our tax dollars for providing a mildly complicated service performed by underpaid and overworked technicians who do the work and get barely any of the profit.
But if a a guy runs for president and wants to use some of our own tax dollars to help average people then we can't have that. Be afraid, be afraid of him and run away screaming little children. We can't change. We have to keep feeding all our wealth to the already filthy rich.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BlueWI
(1,736 posts)We've largely given up on making the case for structural reform, to the detriment of our public conversation and chances for real change.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to Ron Green (Original post)
Anon-C This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to Ron Green (Original post)
Post removed
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)full throttle, gathering lots of momentum due to its popularity, with a large majority of voters on board, stoking the engine, is also difficult to STOP... and there's no stoppin' the "Bernie Train"!!
Stragglers might as well climb aboard to come along for the ride, and unite around Bernie and his inevitable nomination, based on his superior aggressive progressive agenda and his being the one Democrat who's guaran-damn-teed to defeat Dolt 45!!
Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)Primaries enthusiasm means squat if it is attached to someone with a disqualifying blueprint.
I have to laugh at anyone who somehow believes that socialism is just a minor matter.
Some of the related posts are indeed the dumbest in this site's history.
February polls are not the real world. The Rachel Maddow show is never the real world. The old white people on that Naples shuttle bus, that is the real world.
I always test out as very liberal on the issue exams but I've never dunce enough to back a far left candidate on the national stage.
United States of America: 36% self-identified conservatives, 27% self-identified liberals.
Oh sure, we'll just cruise into the White House with our self-proclaimed socialist
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
empedocles
(15,751 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
whistler162
(11,155 posts)anger towards everything and his choice of staff?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)It is perfectly normal. Kerry, Obama, Hillary, were all attacked. Hillary was attacked relentlessly right here 4 years ago.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Squinch
(50,774 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
betsuni
(25,138 posts)revolution, Liberal Media. Nobody's afraid of his stump speech.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)I severely doubt anyone on Wall Street is at all concerned. Even if he did manage to trump his way thorugh this process and get the nomination, and even if the even less likely happens and he became POTUS, the Democratic Party isn't the Republican Party. He won't be given a blank check. Even if they got 100% of the my revolution backed candidates in this cycle, there still wouldn't be a House or Senate that would pass it.
You see they paint him as FDR'ish, except FDR was establishment. FDR was the closest thing to American royalty in that era. FDR pushed and signed the bills, but it was the Senate and House that he and the party of the time got in place to put the bills in place and have the numbers to pass them.
So no, that's not why.
Also, if that was the actual fear, Senator Warren would be attacked the same way. After all, policy wise, they're almost the same.
No, for many of us that stand against the BS, it's a direct result of the way he runs his campaigns. It's the way his campaign leadership runs his campaign. It's the way his surrogates attack.
You talk about the attacks on Bernie? Well, let's look at that right here.
Page 1 of this forum has 80 individual threads.
As of this writing:
12 - the number of threads that are pro bernie
7 - the number of threads that are anti Bernie
19 - the number of threads that are Posted by Bernie supporters attacking other candidates.
24 - the number of threads that are posted by supporters of other candidates in favor of their candidate.
and 18 - the number of threads that don't fall into any of these other categories.
Bernie is 1 of what, 9ish other candidates remaining, and the vast majority of attacks on others are coming from his camp going off of this one most current sampling right here.
But yeah.. he's the one that gets attacked.
(As an aside, if anyone is wondering, you can highlight all the text in the thread page, copy and paste into excel and each thread will have its own line.. didn't know that before now, makes it pretty easy to do this kind of check)
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
madaboutharry
(40,153 posts)1. He wont win
2. He wont be a successful president if he does.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
OliverQ
(3,363 posts)but you think this time will be different?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
OliverQ
(3,363 posts)are all Centrists.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)make one a centrist.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TwilightZone
(25,342 posts)Many on DU claim Obama is a centrist/moderate except when they need him not to be.
And, as noted, there are no centrists running this cycle.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brooklynite
(93,878 posts)No, more the idea of losing the election.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)I can't speak for everybody else, but purple states want to win senate seats.
Mark Kelly wants to be Martha McSally.
We want good turnout. We need good turnout. We need enthusiasm.
Also, once in the Oval Office, we need someone who can work with others and win people over to legislate things that can pass in both houses.
Lastly, I don't view what I said as "attacking" Bernie; IMO it's thinking strategically and using my common sense.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Politicub
(12,163 posts)a Sanders administration will be like, it doesn't bode well for the future.
I'm tired of the news media being attacked. They're not perfect. They're sometimes biased. There are outlets that cater to the right and contribute to its degeneracy. All of these things are true.
But it's not being "attacked" when some outlets are critical of a person or whatever.
Media is never gown to fawn over a candidate unless it's an outlet like Jacobin or Fox News. They're just not, and it's a fool's errand to expect this to ever happen.
It's lazy to continually attack the media over critical coverage. It's not fake news when the media does not align with your perfect conception of how it should be.
As imperfect as the media can be, I love that the press is one of the few professions called out in the bill of rights as protected.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
napi21
(45,806 posts)you know, the ones who ALWAYS VOTE, won't just stay home because "socialism" scares them so much!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
walkingman
(7,512 posts)will go after him with unprecedented $$$ and lies. They did this to unions and were successful so we cannot allow that to happen.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)But I do get that you guys have invested so much into that narrative, and are compelled to keep him starring in that fictional role.
The True Path to salvation lies in one man alone. I heard that agenda repeated a LOT growing up in a baptist church, but I never thought I'd see that degree of stagecraft painted onto a career politician.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden