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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

Ron Green

(9,821 posts)
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 12:12 AM Feb 2020

It's Easy to See Why Bernie is So Widely Attacked.

From the boardrooms of Wall Street, to the print and electronic media, to the Democratic “Underground” - people of all interests are sounding the alarm about Sen. Bernie Sanders as he takes an early and slight lead in this race.

What’s the cause for concern among all these folks? Understandably, bankers and CEOs and laissez faire Capitalist types are nervous about the threat to their golden rice bowls, but what about everybody else?

Perhaps the idea of a “revolution” is something that scares comfortable people. Change is difficult, and no one gladly seeks it, but of course many of us political junkies at DU acknowledge the absolute need for deep and substantive change.

But the presidency of Donald Trump has lowered the bar for governance to the point that an actual billionaire is being trotted out to go against the fake billionaire. And from all quarters - the media certainly, and even DU - flow caution and relief as the hard work of a political revolution can be averted, slipping comfortably back into a vague campaign to make some cap-and-trade rules and tinker with the Affordable Care Act.

The Liberal Media, for its part, is happy to go after Trump as the cause of America’s problems, while of course the reality is that he’s merely the flowering of something that’s been growing for decades, something not discussed much within the two political parties. “Who can beat Trump?” is the wrong question; “Who can turn us away from authoritarianism?” is a better one. The best questions need to be asked, but they rarely are.

Playing the electoral game, but not very well, brought us Trump in 2016. Maybe it’s time to be bold not with political calculus, but with a commitment to a better world in the 21st Century.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
90 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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It's Easy to See Why Bernie is So Widely Attacked. (Original Post) Ron Green Feb 2020 OP
I see Bernie as the solid candidate who can beat trump. If everyone stopped attacking him . . . Love-All Feb 2020 #1
The attacks are just making him stronger. Especially coming from the right people. Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2020 #3
Its bad when his own party is trying to defeat him jr1118x Feb 2020 #7
His own party? NanceGreggs Feb 2020 #9
+1000 UniteFightBack Feb 2020 #10
I think you're talking about Bloomberg. DanTex Feb 2020 #17
No. sheshe2 Feb 2020 #36
BOOM! ehrnst Feb 2020 #85
No, Senator Sanders is not a Democrat - he's Independent. He only runs on the ticket. ehrnst Feb 2020 #84
His own words jr1118x Feb 2020 #20
In his own words ... NanceGreggs Feb 2020 #35
Money and Media...Money and Media. sheshe2 Feb 2020 #37
+1. And it goes way back dalton99a Feb 2020 #39
And there's plenty more ... NanceGreggs Feb 2020 #40
I think his ambivalence and frustration show through these quotes. Ron Green Feb 2020 #43
Yep. sheshe2 Feb 2020 #44
"because it goes way way back" awesomerwb1 Feb 2020 #81
+1 billion treestar Feb 2020 #51
He always caucuses with Dems in Congress. OliverQ Feb 2020 #66
The panic among moderates is telling. BlueWI Feb 2020 #32
"They know Bernie is not for sale and PatSeg Feb 2020 #33
Political Pundits (all the news all day long) talking about people who came in third or fourth! NoDakLinda Feb 2020 #38
Is Joe Biden, for example, supposed to HELP Bernie win the nomination? Laelth Feb 2020 #75
It's only his party when he runs for president. xmas74 Feb 2020 #78
ALL Horizens Feb 2020 #27
Republicans won't stop attacking him if he's the nominee. Qutzupalotl Feb 2020 #45
The fact that Bloomberg is being treated as a legitimate candidate Cal Carpenter Feb 2020 #2
It really is the most disgusting and saddest thing I've seen in my DU history. Garrett78 Feb 2020 #4
I share in your disgust Devil Child Feb 2020 #30
"Appalling" is the word that comes to mind for me (n/t) wackadoo wabbit Feb 2020 #8
Lapsing into ... NanceGreggs Feb 2020 #42
?? Cal Carpenter Feb 2020 #61
What I mean ... NanceGreggs Feb 2020 #87
I'm more disgusted than horrified....and how so many are so easily fooled. nt UniteFightBack Feb 2020 #90
It horrifies me. I am thinking of some dystopian movie. How easily we give our ideals up when fear emmaverybo Feb 2020 #46
Sanders has no hope of winning the electoral college Still In Wisconsin Feb 2020 #5
Sanders has a completely different approach than Clinton did. JudyM Feb 2020 #18
Let's say Sanders does win MI. Still In Wisconsin Feb 2020 #62
+1 LongtimeAZDem Feb 2020 #63
He's polling above Trump in both WI and PA. OliverQ Feb 2020 #71
Sanders is polling ahead of Trump in the rust belt. OliverQ Feb 2020 #67
Sanders is the one candidate who could insure Trump makes history Zolorp Feb 2020 #70
Not based on polls. JudyM Feb 2020 #76
Nope, based upon his baggage that the vast majority of the electorate are currently clueless about. Zolorp Feb 2020 #82
Ah yes, the mysterious phantom baggage. Right. JudyM Feb 2020 #86
Bernsplainin' frazzled Feb 2020 #6
+ 1000 n/t MFGsunny Feb 2020 #14
I think Bernie's brusque "authoritarian" manner has nothing to do with Ron Green Feb 2020 #19
That's odd. frazzled Feb 2020 #24
But his campaign does give a hint dansolo Feb 2020 #49
+1000000 betsuni Feb 2020 #23
Good response Dem2 Feb 2020 #28
Yes! gollygee Feb 2020 #57
"Who can turn us away from authoritarianism?" TwilightZone Feb 2020 #11
maybe people just KNOW Bernie is NOT THE BEST CANDIDATE Skittles Feb 2020 #12
And what are they basing that on? OliverQ Feb 2020 #69
Fear of a loss to Trump and the knowledge that none of his semi plans have a chance of being passed. krissey Feb 2020 #13
Commitment to a plan for a better world that will fail is commitment to a worse world. gulliver Feb 2020 #15
Yet Warren gets attacked even as her decades of work are the foundation blm Feb 2020 #16
She is great in that regard jr1118x Feb 2020 #21
Back then it wasn't unusual for a Republican to be progressive. blm Feb 2020 #26
After voters realize that the money they have in their retirement funds are at risk, TexasTowelie Feb 2020 #22
What do you think would happen that isn't going to happen in those KPN Feb 2020 #60
Bernie is a populist Dem2 Feb 2020 #25
Sanders is attacked because he scares the filthy rich and those easily manipulated Farmer-Rick Feb 2020 #29
You said it. BlueWI Feb 2020 #34
This message was self-deleted by its author Anon-C Feb 2020 #31
Post removed Post removed Feb 2020 #41
Change IS difficult... but change, like a freight train, when it's speeding down the tracks InAbLuEsTaTe Feb 2020 #47
It's called Wisdom of the Crowd Awsi Dooger Feb 2020 #48
BS is about Dem, progressive primary bait, - not about November empedocles Feb 2020 #53
You mean other than his whistler162 Feb 2020 #50
It is because he is running for President treestar Feb 2020 #52
Um... no. That's not it. Squinch Feb 2020 #54
Wall Street, media, misunderstanding DU, bankers, CEOs, golden rice bowls, billionaire betsuni Feb 2020 #55
Wrong. Amimnoch Feb 2020 #56
+1 betsuni Feb 2020 #58
Some people think this: madaboutharry Feb 2020 #59
The idea of a populist "revolution" is something that should scare anyone in a democracy LongtimeAZDem Feb 2020 #64
No Centrist has won the General Election in the 21st Century. OliverQ Feb 2020 #72
There's no centrist running for the Democratic nomination, so your point is moot LongtimeAZDem Feb 2020 #73
Biden, Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Bloomberg, Steyer OliverQ Feb 2020 #88
No, those are all progressive liberals; not being a socialist doesn't LongtimeAZDem Feb 2020 #89
It's pretty funny. TwilightZone Feb 2020 #74
"Perhaps the idea of a "revolution" is something that scares comfortable people." brooklynite Feb 2020 #65
You ask "but what about everybody else?" Mike 03 Feb 2020 #68
If complaining about how much the news media attacks him is indicative of what Politicub Feb 2020 #77
OK, I understand Bernie's strong supporters. So convince me the MAJORITY of older voters, napi21 Feb 2020 #79
You can bet that if Bernie is our candidate the fossil fuel, insurance, and pharma corps walkingman Feb 2020 #80
The martyrdom routine gets old fast LanternWaste Feb 2020 #83
 

Love-All

(63 posts)
1. I see Bernie as the solid candidate who can beat trump. If everyone stopped attacking him . . .
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 12:15 AM
Feb 2020

and started supporting him, we can beat trump.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,273 posts)
3. The attacks are just making him stronger. Especially coming from the right people.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 12:21 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

jr1118x

(97 posts)
7. Its bad when his own party is trying to defeat him
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 12:26 AM
Feb 2020

It would be one thing if he was being attacked by Wall St and the Republicans but the Establishment Democrats are shameless in the attacks. They know Bernie is not for sale and that frightens them. I really think leadership would rather lose to Trump than a BS presidency.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
9. His own party?
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 12:29 AM
Feb 2020

It's only 'his party' when convenient for him.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
17. I think you're talking about Bloomberg.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 12:36 AM
Feb 2020

Bernie's been caucusing with Dems the whole time.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

sheshe2

(83,355 posts)
36. No.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 02:04 AM
Feb 2020

She knows exactly what she was saying.

As for his votes.

Brady Bill voted against 5 times.

Russian sanctions. No.

The Magnitsky act. No

Amber Alert. No.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
84. No, Senator Sanders is not a Democrat - he's Independent. He only runs on the ticket.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 01:45 PM
Feb 2020

He has never served as a Democrat, and doesn't consider himself to be one.

But since you brought Bloomberg up, I'm not Bloomberg fan, but I don't think that he's ever been a candidate promoted by Russia.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

jr1118x

(97 posts)
20. His own words
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 12:51 AM
Feb 2020

Here is what he had to say at the CNN Town Hall
" At a CNN town hall last month, Sanders was asked why he was running as a Democrat even though he has never run as a Democrat except in the last presidential race.

“Let’s set the record straight. I am a member of the Democratic leadership in the United States Senate. I’ve been a member of the Democratic caucus in the Senate for the last 13 years and in the House for 16 years before that. won the Democratic nomination in my state, but in Vermont, I have chosen to run as an independent because it goes way, way back,” Sanders answered."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
35. In his own words ...
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 01:58 AM
Feb 2020

... he said in 2016 that he was running as a Democrat because he wouldn't get media attention without doing so, and also wanted to use the political 'machinery' that the Dems already had in place.

He also said years ago: "After everything I've said about the Democratic party, I'd be a hypocrite if I ever ran on their ticket."

I remember that quote well - it was my sig line during the 2016 primaries.

As I said, Bernie only identifies himself as a Democrat when it's personally convenient.





If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

sheshe2

(83,355 posts)
37. Money and Media...Money and Media.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 02:15 AM
Feb 2020

Yep.

Plus in 2020 he became a Democrat again to run for President and in the very same breath he registered for his run for his Senate seat as an Independent. Confusing, isn't it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

dalton99a

(81,073 posts)
39. +1. And it goes way back
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 02:23 AM
Feb 2020

"The Democratic Party ideologically bankrupt, they have no ideology. Their ideology is opportunism.”
- Interview with Vermont Affairs magazine, 1986

"The Democratic and Republican parties are tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum, they both adhere to an ideology of greed and vulgarity."
- Op-ed in the New York Times, January 1989

"It would be hypocritical of me to run as a Democrat because of the things I have said about the party."
- Socialist Scholars Conference in New York City, April 1990

“Why should we work within the Democratic Party if we don’t agree with anything the Democratic Party says?”
- Socialist Scholars Conference in New York City, April 1990

“I am extremely proud to be an independent. The fact that I am not a Democrat gives me the freedom to speak out on the floor of the House, to vote against both the Democratic and Republican proposals.”
- U.S. House of Representatives in 1990

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
40. And there's plenty more ...
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 02:32 AM
Feb 2020

... where that came from.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Ron Green

(9,821 posts)
43. I think his ambivalence and frustration show through these quotes.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 02:44 AM
Feb 2020

None of them is false. Sanders is someone who has cared about the built-in injustice of this nation all his life, and he certainly doesn’t put party above country.

As a Democratic candidate for office some years ago I’m keenly aware of the culpability of any major party in the maintenance of inequality and unfairness in our country. It’s a conundrum that those who seek power are not often good people, and it’s good people we need.

I know Bernie pisses off a lot of folks, especially here on DU, but I really think he’s got a huge amount of heart in this fight, and that his words are what needs to be said from the White House.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

sheshe2

(83,355 posts)
44. Yep.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 02:52 AM
Feb 2020

His own words.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

awesomerwb1

(4,256 posts)
81. "because it goes way way back"
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 11:20 AM
Feb 2020

So does the Democratic party. What an silly answer.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
51. +1 billion
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 07:06 AM
Feb 2020

That is astounding.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

OliverQ

(3,363 posts)
66. He always caucuses with Dems in Congress.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 10:09 AM
Feb 2020

He's certainly more of a Democrat than Joe Manchin is.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

BlueWI

(1,736 posts)
32. The panic among moderates is telling.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 01:41 AM
Feb 2020

The biggest risk for Sanders is that moderate Democrats won't support him. I actually think he'll do good enough among Republicans and independents to win in a GE. But it's moderate and conservative Democrats that are more likely to abandon the ticket in unsustainable numbers if Sanders is nominated, or at least not expend the effort needed to win a close race.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

PatSeg

(46,804 posts)
33. "They know Bernie is not for sale and
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 01:42 AM
Feb 2020

that frightens them"??? Seriously? No, they are afraid that Trump will win reelection, if Bernie is the nominee.

AND the Democratic party is not "his own party". It is the party he adopts temporarily when he runs for president and the party that he disparages the rest of the time.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NoDakLinda

(45 posts)
38. Political Pundits (all the news all day long) talking about people who came in third or fourth!
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 02:15 AM
Feb 2020

From NDLinda

BERNIE SANDERS is ahead, send up a flare, tell the media with “political pundits” (all the news all day long) who are talking about people being just fantastic that came in third or fourth while making excuses about WHY Bernie won? And some are convinced that Bernie lost since he did better last time. They don’t seem to comprehend that this is a butterfly campaign, and unlike last time, the drop-out’s delegates can go wherever.

Among many other complaints the commentators whine, “If Bernie wins where will he take the party”? Could I answer that? I would say, “some of us think that maybe he’ll take the party back to what the party is supposed to stand for, you know, main street not wall street?

In the pundit’s opinion the Democratic nominee needs to be a moderate because a liberal can’t beat Trump. WHAT? We need Trump running against himself. Is this some silly way of saying that only someone who is thoroughly sold-out can beat Trump.

Well, thanks for all the bad advice, but even if we do need a moderate wingnut to defeat Trump, why bother? It’s all sick, and I don’t mean that in a good way.

Oh, and now, some are claiming to support healthcare for all. We’ve heard that one before, as for as, “if you like your healthcare plan you can keep it” goes, that won’t work. Understanding that healthcare pricing is a prerequisite to any discussion about healthcare for all. In 1993, President Bill Clinton pushed for universal health care to lower the Medicare budget. The government would control the costs of doctor bills and insurance premiums. We didn’t get that, and we have not solved the Healthcare Crisis. We won’t unless we control the overall healthcare costs that will remain poorly controlled until we have oversight.

Taiwan’s single-payer NHI system enabled Taiwan to manage health spending inflation the resulting savings largely offset the incremental cost of covering the previously uninsured. The NHI consistently receives a 70 percent public satisfaction rate.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
75. Is Joe Biden, for example, supposed to HELP Bernie win the nomination?
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 10:37 AM
Feb 2020

Of course, his opponents are trying to beat him. What would you expect?



-Laelth

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

xmas74

(29,658 posts)
78. It's only his party when he runs for president.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 10:51 AM
Feb 2020

Maybe if he officially switched his affiliation within the Senate as Democratic people wouldn't be as upset.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Horizens

(637 posts)
27. ALL
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 01:14 AM
Feb 2020

candidates get attacked.

"If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Qutzupalotl

(14,230 posts)
45. Republicans won't stop attacking him if he's the nominee.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 02:58 AM
Feb 2020

We need to vet our candidates now.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cal Carpenter

(4,959 posts)
2. The fact that Bloomberg is being treated as a legitimate candidate
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 12:20 AM
Feb 2020

for the Democratic Party is just.... well, I dont really have the words for it. Dystopian, maybe.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
4. It really is the most disgusting and saddest thing I've seen in my DU history.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 12:22 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Devil Child

(2,728 posts)
30. I share in your disgust
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 01:28 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

wackadoo wabbit

(1,160 posts)
8. "Appalling" is the word that comes to mind for me (n/t)
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 12:29 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
42. Lapsing into ...
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 02:39 AM
Feb 2020

... "but what about him" so soon?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cal Carpenter

(4,959 posts)
61. ??
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 09:37 AM
Feb 2020

I'm not sure I get what you mean, but I am talking specifically about Bloomberg and it has nothing to do with whether he can beat my preferred candidate. He is a racist authoritarian who destroys lives of black and brown people, and he should not have any traction as a Democrat.

I'm horrified that so many people are defending him, and reassured that I am not the only one horrified by it.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
87. What I mean ...
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 08:04 PM
Feb 2020

... is that is see a lot of Bernie supporters responding to criticisms about him by criticizing one of the other candidates.

There are a lot of people who are horrified by Bernie using the Dem party to further his own political ambitions when convenient, and then bashing that party while running on their ticket.

And I assure you I am not the only one horrified by that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

UniteFightBack

(8,231 posts)
90. I'm more disgusted than horrified....and how so many are so easily fooled. nt
Sat Feb 15, 2020, 06:59 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
46. It horrifies me. I am thinking of some dystopian movie. How easily we give our ideals up when fear
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 03:59 AM
Feb 2020

rules.Yes, the fear of four more years is real and we must do all in our power to stop Trump from getting them, as a first step. But no, Bloomberg is not the way. No, he is no insurance. No, we can not and must not betray our principles.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Still In Wisconsin

(4,450 posts)
5. Sanders has no hope of winning the electoral college
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 12:24 AM
Feb 2020

If Sanders is the nominee the entire rust belt along with PA FL and AZ are gone. Trump could well lose the popular vote to Sanders, but just ask President Hillary Clinton how that worked out.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

JudyM

(29,122 posts)
18. Sanders has a completely different approach than Clinton did.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 12:40 AM
Feb 2020

and he wins MI, at a minimum, hands down. As we’ve discussed

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Still In Wisconsin

(4,450 posts)
62. Let's say Sanders does win MI.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 09:58 AM
Feb 2020

When he loses WI, IA, PA, NC, FL, AZ, maybe even MN it won't matter.

Sanders is suicide.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

OliverQ

(3,363 posts)
71. He's polling above Trump in both WI and PA.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 10:13 AM
Feb 2020

Currently no Democrat is winning Iowa, NC, AZ, or Florida. Bloomberg is doing worse than Bernie in Iowa.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

OliverQ

(3,363 posts)
67. Sanders is polling ahead of Trump in the rust belt.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 10:10 AM
Feb 2020

No Centrist candidate has ever won the General Election in the 21st Century so you want to try another Centrist?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Zolorp

(1,115 posts)
70. Sanders is the one candidate who could insure Trump makes history
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 10:13 AM
Feb 2020

With Sanders as the nominee there is a real possibility that Trump could be the second president in history to win the electoral college unanimously.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JudyM

(29,122 posts)
76. Not based on polls.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 10:41 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Zolorp

(1,115 posts)
82. Nope, based upon his baggage that the vast majority of the electorate are currently clueless about.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 11:21 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JudyM

(29,122 posts)
86. Ah yes, the mysterious phantom baggage. Right.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 05:22 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
6. Bernsplainin'
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 12:25 AM
Feb 2020

It’s not helping your cause. It’s actually part of the problem.

My problem with Sanders is precisely the issue of authoritarianism he exudes and ideological rigidity he displays. It is why he has accomplished none of the things he has been talking about for 40 years, and why he would accomplish none of what he is espousing if elected.

Honestly, your argument fails to capture any of the reasons why so many Democrats are currently not supporting him.

Telling us why we are wrong is just another demonstration of the condescending, my-way-or-the- highway attitude that turns many off. You’re essentially calling people deluded capitalists.

If that criticism makes you uncomfortable, try this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/08/opinion/sunday/bernie-sanders-2020-campaign.html



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Ron Green

(9,821 posts)
19. I think Bernie's brusque "authoritarian" manner has nothing to do with
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 12:45 AM
Feb 2020

what sort of administration he might bring. And of course there’s no way he could have, from within the Senate, accomplished what he’s been talking about for decades; that will take the will of lots of people through their representatives. However, many have been made aware of some cures and correctives for end-stage capitalism through his words there.

Sorry I couldn’t get past the Times’ paywall to read your link. Seems my $300 a year for their Sunday copies doesn’t get me in. But I know they’re pretty worried, too.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
24. That's odd.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 01:00 AM
Feb 2020

I was going to post extracts for you, but I’ll spare you the pain.

You should drop the Sunday paper; it’s the least interesting of the week. Stick to the weekdays. That’s where the interesting stuff is.

PS: If you get the Sunday Times, you’ll find the piece in the Sunday opinion pages.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

dansolo

(5,376 posts)
49. But his campaign does give a hint
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 06:55 AM
Feb 2020

About what sort of administration he might bring. It will be full of unqualified sycophants who will attack everyone who dares question their leader.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
57. Yes!
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 07:45 AM
Feb 2020

Ideological rigidity is causing a lot of problems in the US.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TwilightZone

(25,342 posts)
11. "Who can turn us away from authoritarianism?"
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 12:31 AM
Feb 2020

Pretty much every candidate still in the race on the Democratic side.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Skittles

(152,967 posts)
12. maybe people just KNOW Bernie is NOT THE BEST CANDIDATE
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 12:32 AM
Feb 2020

that could be it too

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

OliverQ

(3,363 posts)
69. And what are they basing that on?
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 10:11 AM
Feb 2020

Certainly not polling. Certainly not the failure of all Centrists to win this century.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

krissey

(1,205 posts)
13. Fear of a loss to Trump and the knowledge that none of his semi plans have a chance of being passed.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 12:33 AM
Feb 2020

It is a concern that nothing will get done and more damage to the country.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

gulliver

(13,142 posts)
15. Commitment to a plan for a better world that will fail is commitment to a worse world.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 12:34 AM
Feb 2020

Sanders is one of these guys who always attacks others and calls it self defense. He has two basic attacks: 1) You're an oppressor or, 2) You're on the side of the oppressor (because you've been bought). No one can win. Only Sanders is right.

Sanders might win the nomination and might even win the election, but I doubt the former a lot and the latter even more. I'll vote for him if he gets the nomination, of course. I just think he'll lose in the GE in a landslide.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

blm

(112,920 posts)
16. Yet Warren gets attacked even as her decades of work are the foundation
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 12:34 AM
Feb 2020

of some politicians’ policies. There is only ONE candidate the financial industry truly fears and it is Elizabeth Warren. They know she knows exactly what they do and how they do it and how government is involved.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

jr1118x

(97 posts)
21. She is great in that regard
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 12:54 AM
Feb 2020

I love watching her in hearings making them squirm. Its hard to imagine her back in the day being a conservative as hard as she fights for the people in that sector.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

blm

(112,920 posts)
26. Back then it wasn't unusual for a Republican to be progressive.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 01:11 AM
Feb 2020

Many were pro-choice, pro-environment, pro-civil rights.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TexasTowelie

(111,315 posts)
22. After voters realize that the money they have in their retirement funds are at risk,
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 12:54 AM
Feb 2020

I think pragmatism will prevail. February's flavor on the month will melt in March.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

KPN

(15,587 posts)
60. What do you think would happen that isn't going to happen in those
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 08:02 AM
Feb 2020

accounts anyway? Personally, I don’t see any increased risk over what exists already by way of a relatively loosely regulated financial industry propped up by what will ultimately be unsustainable monetary and tax policy. Wall Street is the world’s largest casino and the odds are heavily stacked in the houses favor. 2008 wasn’t an aberration. Bear markets, corrections, crashes and recessions occur and they will occur in the future regardless of who wins the nomination this year and the WH. The current bull market can’t last forever and won’t.

Is it possible a Sanders or Warren presidency might speed the arrival of a bear market/recession. Sure, but it’s coming at some point, likely sooner than later anyway.

I’m retired and partly dependent on our retirement investments. I’m being conservative and minimizing risk/exposure already. As a result, I’ve missed the majority of the gains since tRump stole the election, but our retirement isn’t threatened either. Bottom line is that the “free money” isn’t going to flow forever either way. Exclaiming that it won’t if Sanders gets nominated/elected ignores that reality and amounts to misrepresentation and fear-mongering in my opinion.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Dem2

(8,166 posts)
25. Bernie is a populist
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 01:08 AM
Feb 2020

Not a revolutionary.

He will surely not accomplish much as president, just as you have noted the other Democrats likely won't either. Most of us don't see the massive dichotomy that you describe. Bernie just promises more, knowing he can't possibly deliver on such promises. He says what people want to hear. If he's annoying to some it's because many of his followers think he has some magical formula for accomplishing things, even though he hasn't proven that ability in congress. I'm as cynical of Bernie as I am of any other candidate.

But, we're in a state of emergency right now and the biggest consideration above all else is kicking the psychopath/fascist out of office. If Bernie can do that, fine, but don't expect the blame-game, where it's always someone else's fault when things don't go his way, to seem anything less than annoying to many Democrats. We already hear similar whining from the Pendejo Naranja.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Farmer-Rick

(10,072 posts)
29. Sanders is attacked because he scares the filthy rich and those easily manipulated
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 01:26 AM
Feb 2020

By the filthy rich propaganda.

See these filthy rich are perfectly happy giving a multimillionaire $10 billion of our tax dollars for providing a mildly complicated service performed by underpaid and overworked technicians who do the work and get barely any of the profit.

But if a a guy runs for president and wants to use some of our own tax dollars to help average people then we can't have that. Be afraid, be afraid of him and run away screaming little children. We can't change. We have to keep feeding all our wealth to the already filthy rich.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

BlueWI

(1,736 posts)
34. You said it.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 01:47 AM
Feb 2020

We've largely given up on making the case for structural reform, to the detriment of our public conversation and chances for real change.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

Response to Ron Green (Original post)

Response to Ron Green (Original post)

 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
47. Change IS difficult... but change, like a freight train, when it's speeding down the tracks
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 04:13 AM
Feb 2020

full throttle, gathering lots of momentum due to its popularity, with a large majority of voters on board, stoking the engine, is also difficult to STOP... and there's no stoppin' the "Bernie Train"!!

Stragglers might as well climb aboard to come along for the ride, and unite around Bernie and his inevitable nomination, based on his superior aggressive progressive agenda and his being the one Democrat who's guaran-damn-teed to defeat Dolt 45!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Awsi Dooger

(14,565 posts)
48. It's called Wisdom of the Crowd
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 04:54 AM
Feb 2020

Primaries enthusiasm means squat if it is attached to someone with a disqualifying blueprint.

I have to laugh at anyone who somehow believes that socialism is just a minor matter.

Some of the related posts are indeed the dumbest in this site's history.

February polls are not the real world. The Rachel Maddow show is never the real world. The old white people on that Naples shuttle bus, that is the real world.

I always test out as very liberal on the issue exams but I've never dunce enough to back a far left candidate on the national stage.

United States of America: 36% self-identified conservatives, 27% self-identified liberals.

Oh sure, we'll just cruise into the White House with our self-proclaimed socialist

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

empedocles

(15,751 posts)
53. BS is about Dem, progressive primary bait, - not about November
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 07:11 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

whistler162

(11,155 posts)
50. You mean other than his
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 07:03 AM
Feb 2020

anger towards everything and his choice of staff?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
52. It is because he is running for President
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 07:08 AM
Feb 2020

It is perfectly normal. Kerry, Obama, Hillary, were all attacked. Hillary was attacked relentlessly right here 4 years ago.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Squinch

(50,774 posts)
54. Um... no. That's not it.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 07:15 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

betsuni

(25,138 posts)
55. Wall Street, media, misunderstanding DU, bankers, CEOs, golden rice bowls, billionaire
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 07:21 AM
Feb 2020

revolution, Liberal Media. Nobody's afraid of his stump speech.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Amimnoch

(4,558 posts)
56. Wrong.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 07:41 AM
Feb 2020

I severely doubt anyone on Wall Street is at all concerned. Even if he did manage to trump his way thorugh this process and get the nomination, and even if the even less likely happens and he became POTUS, the Democratic Party isn't the Republican Party. He won't be given a blank check. Even if they got 100% of the my revolution backed candidates in this cycle, there still wouldn't be a House or Senate that would pass it.

You see they paint him as FDR'ish, except FDR was establishment. FDR was the closest thing to American royalty in that era. FDR pushed and signed the bills, but it was the Senate and House that he and the party of the time got in place to put the bills in place and have the numbers to pass them.

So no, that's not why.

Also, if that was the actual fear, Senator Warren would be attacked the same way. After all, policy wise, they're almost the same.

No, for many of us that stand against the BS, it's a direct result of the way he runs his campaigns. It's the way his campaign leadership runs his campaign. It's the way his surrogates attack.

You talk about the attacks on Bernie? Well, let's look at that right here.

Page 1 of this forum has 80 individual threads.

As of this writing:
12 - the number of threads that are pro bernie
7 - the number of threads that are anti Bernie
19 - the number of threads that are Posted by Bernie supporters attacking other candidates.
24 - the number of threads that are posted by supporters of other candidates in favor of their candidate.
and 18 - the number of threads that don't fall into any of these other categories.

Bernie is 1 of what, 9ish other candidates remaining, and the vast majority of attacks on others are coming from his camp going off of this one most current sampling right here.

But yeah.. he's the one that gets attacked.

(As an aside, if anyone is wondering, you can highlight all the text in the thread page, copy and paste into excel and each thread will have its own line.. didn't know that before now, makes it pretty easy to do this kind of check)

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

madaboutharry

(40,153 posts)
59. Some people think this:
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 07:53 AM
Feb 2020

1. He won’t win
2. He won’t be a successful president if he does.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LongtimeAZDem

(4,494 posts)
64. The idea of a populist "revolution" is something that should scare anyone in a democracy
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 10:06 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

OliverQ

(3,363 posts)
72. No Centrist has won the General Election in the 21st Century.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 10:14 AM
Feb 2020

but you think this time will be different?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LongtimeAZDem

(4,494 posts)
73. There's no centrist running for the Democratic nomination, so your point is moot
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 10:15 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

OliverQ

(3,363 posts)
88. Biden, Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Bloomberg, Steyer
Sat Feb 15, 2020, 12:37 PM
Feb 2020

are all Centrists.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LongtimeAZDem

(4,494 posts)
89. No, those are all progressive liberals; not being a socialist doesn't
Sat Feb 15, 2020, 06:56 PM
Feb 2020

make one a centrist.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TwilightZone

(25,342 posts)
74. It's pretty funny.
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 10:29 AM
Feb 2020

Many on DU claim Obama is a centrist/moderate except when they need him not to be.

And, as noted, there are no centrists running this cycle.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

brooklynite

(93,878 posts)
65. "Perhaps the idea of a "revolution" is something that scares comfortable people."
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 10:06 AM
Feb 2020

No, more the idea of losing the election.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Mike 03

(16,616 posts)
68. You ask "but what about everybody else?"
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 10:11 AM
Feb 2020

I can't speak for everybody else, but purple states want to win senate seats.

Mark Kelly wants to be Martha McSally.

We want good turnout. We need good turnout. We need enthusiasm.

Also, once in the Oval Office, we need someone who can work with others and win people over to legislate things that can pass in both houses.

Lastly, I don't view what I said as "attacking" Bernie; IMO it's thinking strategically and using my common sense.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Politicub

(12,163 posts)
77. If complaining about how much the news media attacks him is indicative of what
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 10:47 AM
Feb 2020

a Sanders administration will be like, it doesn't bode well for the future.

I'm tired of the news media being attacked. They're not perfect. They're sometimes biased. There are outlets that cater to the right and contribute to its degeneracy. All of these things are true.

But it's not being "attacked" when some outlets are critical of a person or whatever.

Media is never gown to fawn over a candidate unless it's an outlet like Jacobin or Fox News. They're just not, and it's a fool's errand to expect this to ever happen.

It's lazy to continually attack the media over critical coverage. It's not fake news when the media does not align with your perfect conception of how it should be.

As imperfect as the media can be, I love that the press is one of the few professions called out in the bill of rights as protected.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

napi21

(45,806 posts)
79. OK, I understand Bernie's strong supporters. So convince me the MAJORITY of older voters,
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 10:53 AM
Feb 2020

you know, the ones who ALWAYS VOTE, won't just stay home because "socialism" scares them so much!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

walkingman

(7,512 posts)
80. You can bet that if Bernie is our candidate the fossil fuel, insurance, and pharma corps
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 11:05 AM
Feb 2020

will go after him with unprecedented $$$ and lies. They did this to unions and were successful so we cannot allow that to happen.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
83. The martyrdom routine gets old fast
Fri Feb 14, 2020, 11:30 AM
Feb 2020

But I do get that you guys have invested so much into that narrative, and are compelled to keep him starring in that fictional role.

The True Path to salvation lies in one man alone. I heard that agenda repeated a LOT growing up in a baptist church, but I never thought I'd see that degree of stagecraft painted onto a career politician.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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