Fred Guttenberg won't back Sanders because Sanders is running against the Democratic Party

[highplainsdem]

Two-tweet thread, posted minutes ago, starting here (full text below):

Link to tweet

(1,2) Anyone who follows me knows that I have not yet endorsed anyone. In the past few days I have shared my positive thoughts on @MikeBloomberg, @JoeBiden, @PeteButtigieg, and @amyklobuchar. The person I will not support, endorse, or help is @BernieSanders. Why?



(2,2) While Bloomberg, Biden, Buttigieg, Klobuchar focus positive campaigns as alternatives to Trump, Bernie is running against the Dem party and did so last night in Vegas. Bernie supporters will go full Trump on me for this. I do not care. He will cost the Dems the election.

[Amimnoch]

1. E.X.A.C.T.L.Y.

So MUcH ThE TrUTh. We SeE iT HErE EvErY DaY.

[grantcart]

34. Why any Democrat would want to support someone who wanted to primary

President Obama is beyond reason.

[jrthin]

62. The is one of the many actions I hold against him.

[trueblue2007]

85. Bernie is not even a Dem ! I think he should be in the "Independent" primary, not Dem.

[LArider]

91. That

would not be good. Just let him take his loss and go home. Maybe the D candidate can pick up at least half of his supporters. If he ran as an I, we wouldn't get any of his supporters' votes.

[robbedvoter]

87. Also got his minions to primary good Democrats and declared

No 🌊! before Midterms.

[UniteFightBack]

108. WHAT? I didn't know about that...and I'm signing in here everyday. Just wait until the masses

really find out about this guy..no wonder the pukes are chomping at the bit.

[Zolorp]

2. Now he's going to be attacked by the Gunners and the Sanders people.

[Perseus]

29. You mean like the Bindeners, and the Bloombergers, and the Klobuchers attack Sanders?

Like that? Like those groups go against Sanders every five minutes here in DU?

Newton's 3rd Law: All action has a reaction. And none of those negative actions will provide good reactions to the Democratic party.

It pains me to read posts of glee every time a candidate who is not supported by the poster is attacked, this is not a sport, this is politics and we are in this mess with the creature in the WH because too many people take politics as if it is a sport. We need to stop being fanatics, passionate about candidates, we have to look at the current situation and understand that the main goal is to dethrone trump and his league of crooks, and all we seem to be doing is dividing the Democratic party with these useless attacks, some of them are not even true.

I hate it when someone comes out and says "Sanders/Biden/Klobucher/Warren/Buttigieg WILL NOT BEAT TRUMP" and then doesn't offer any analysis or proof to backup their statement, when asked to provide it, suddenly they disappear, they no longer make any more comments on that blog. Is it someone just dropping malice to start a negative reaction? Are we falling for this?

This must stop, let the voters decide without disenfranchising them, it will have negative consequences.

[Amimnoch]

39. Yes, everyone else are the aggressors, BS is the sweet little innocent victim.

You are right about the reaction.. but it's the attacks on him tha's the reaction.

Maybe if Bernie, his stein loving campaign leadership, and social media machine didn't sling so much shit around at everything Democratic Party, Democratic Leadership, DNC.. maybe.. just maybe.. everyone else would be happy to stop defending and counter attacking him and join in with Mike Bloomberg in going after Tramp??

Just maybe.

[Zolorp]

45. This right here.

[calimary]

46. Yep. This right here!!!

[ramen]

69. EVERYBODY STOP SHOOTING AT EACH OTHER

My candidate of choice, everyone else's, whoever.. let's all fight the goddamn enemy and quit with the circular firing squad bullshit. It is our only shot, in all likelihood.

[Cha]

74. lol. grrr

[calguy]

47. The BernieBullshiters are now claiming to be victims

Right out of the trump playbook.

[Perseus]

88. Not sure if you are referring to me as a BernieBullshiter, which I am not

At this time I am not even supporting Sanders, I am trying to get people to be civil and stop the bickering, and that includes Biden, Klobucher, Warren, Buttigieg, Bloomberg, and Sanders supporters as well, you know, all Democrats.

I am trying to promote decency, from your answer I guess I am failing.

[lapucelle]

52. No. Guttenberg probably means like the toxic faction BS swarm

That has gone after him in the past.

[ramen]

3. Can you link to the text or video of Sanders attacking the Democratic party?

Thanks for any insight.

[Perseus]

16. I think many of us would love to see those texts/videos, the only one I found if this one

"Democratic critiques of Sanders miss the mark"
[link:https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/481578-democratic-critiques-of-sanders-miss-the-mark|

But this one goes the other way, it is the "Democratic critics of Sanders that miss the mark", not the other way around.

Here is a "snip":

Bernie Sanders has been the subject of growing criticism from left-leaning media commentators and Democratic Party leaders. Although some may argue that this is nothing new, the volume of the critiques has increased in proportion to Sanders’ recent ascent in the polls.

[Perseus]

30. Sorry ramen, as it usually happens, only crickets after a challenge to provide facts

Just challenge them to support their statement and suddenly they disappear.

[highplainsdem]

40. What BS. If you want to know exactly what Guttenberg was referring to, ask him. And fwiw,

I did some googling and posted about something I found that Guttenberg MIGHT have had in mind, but I can't be sure it wasn't something else Sanders said.

I don't owe anyone here a response to a question about exactly what Guttenberg was referring to. I'm not a mind reader. People here can do their own checking.

But everyone here is well aware of how negative Sanders' attitude toward the Democratic Party has often been, unless he needed its support for a presidential run.

[ramen]

70. Are you saying I should sign up for twitter to ask whoever Guttenberg is about your post?

It seems like a very normal question to a poster to ask what their post is about. My apologies if you disagree, but I thought that your posting about suggested that you knew what it was about it.

[Perseus]

90. If you make such a confident statement, then you do owe to show your facts.

Such a statement should be backed with your analysis, and facts. That "I don't owe anyone here a response" is an easy way out.

Ask him???? I don't know the guy.

Anyway, to each his own...the attacks will continue and the consequences will be seen and felt in November, I just hope I am wrong about it.

Sad moment in the Democratic party supporters.

[ramen]

100. I assume it was something other than the speech you linked to,

because that speech contained none of the allegations Guttenberg made. It seems more like a play on people's past biases regardless of present situation, to me, if he was not referring to something else..

[highplainsdem]

35. I'm not sure. It's possible Guttenberg was referring to Sanders' speech at the Democratic Party

gala in Las Vegas last night.

Sanders took a swipe at the Democratic Party establishment, though he referred to them as "the political establishment," for thinking his agenda is too radical. He referred to them and "the corporate elites" in the same sentence.

And he used a lot of his speech to go after Mike Bloomberg, which was NOT appropriate at a Democratic Party dinner.

Unless any of the other candidates there went after another Democratic candidate by name, then I can see Guttenberg's point about Sanders running against the Democratic Party. And of course Sanders has a long history of criticizing the party, and he's planning to run for the Senate as an independent again if this run fails, as it probably will.

C-SPAN video here. Sanders was the first candidate to speak:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?469290-1/nevada-democrats-hold-pre-caucus-gala&live=

[cilla4progress]

48. Umm... Bloomberg's own Dem party

roots and loyalty are every bit as tenuous as Sanders' are alleged to be!

[lapucelle]

102. Umm...but Bloomberg is leading the fight for sane gun laws!

Umm...Bloomberg didn't vote with Republicans against the Brady Bill five times and for the PLCAA!

Umm...that's probably important to a man who lost his child to gun violence facilitated by lax gun laws and the politicians who vote for the status quo.

[cilla4progress]

109. Gun safety is a critical issue.

I'm a multi-issue voter.

[KPN]

53. Sanders isn't running against me or millions of other Democrats. We are the Democratic Party as

much as anybody. Some of us, like me, have been loyal Democratic Party voters for 40-50 years. He's not attacking the Democratic Party, he's criticizing the record as it is reflected in our current economic structure. So stop with the bull-pucky. ...

Fealty doesn't equal right. Criticism doesn't equal attack. Get over it.

[ramen]

68. Thank you for linking to this.

I definitely am not into any of us attacking any others of us but also wanted some context and to see what actually happened rather than a twitter retelling. About to watch the video you linked in a moment. Much appreciated.

[highplainsdem]

71. You're welcome! I did a lot of googling and also a lot of searching on Twitter to see if I could

find anything else on what Sanders might've said last night, but couldn't find anything.

Sorry I didn't get that posted earlier, but I've been busy with some weekend chores as well, and I needed to locate Sanders' speech on that very long video and listen to all of it before I could post a reply.

[grantcart]

36. Lolol

You mean like in 2012 when he said that he wasn't a Democrat but the Democrats should primary President Obama? Are You that uninformed about the person you support?

[ramen]

50. That response is totally unlike your usually civil tone.

My quetion is to do with the OP above, regarding whatever happened in Vegas. I'll copy here for you:

(2,2) While Bloomberg, Biden, Buttigieg, Klobuchar focus positive campaigns as alternatives to Trump, Bernie is running against the Dem party and did so last night in Vegas. Bernie supporters will go full Trump on me for this. I do not care. He will cost the Dems the election.

[Cha]

114. His reply was honest.

[ramen]

115. It was quite honest in talking about something other than the OP,

which was to do with the speech the other night in 2020, as opposed ro relitigating the 2016 primary years hence.

More importantly: in the years I have been reading this site I have been impressed with Grantcart's approach to navigating disagreement and differences both here and elsewhere. This just stood out as unlike him, thus my pointing it out. He and-or you are totally welcome to ignore the perceived disparity as you see fit but it certainly was notable to me.

[calimary]

54. What hit me hardest along those lines was

his long-asserted independent status.

So in 2016, he took advantage of our (Democrats’) fundraising mechanisms, our (Democrats’) email lists, our (Democrats’) campaign infrastructure all through the primary season. And he took on our (Democrats’) name throughout.

Until... he didn’t win.

Until... he failed to win the nomination.

And then he took his ball and went home. Threw off our (Democrats’) name, thus disavowing the party construct he’d exploited and taken full advantage of, for months. And he refused to share HIS email lists with our (Democrats’) Party and our (Democrats’) legitimate nominee’s campaign. And he sat things out, pouting in the shadows, til she was declared the nominee. And then only minimally and half-heartedly went out to campaign for her.

Like that.

Anybody remember the “massive” coverage when Bernie hit the campaign trail for Hillary? Loudly and on almost a daily basis? Working like crazy to promote party unity toward the main goal of keeping trump out of the White House? Doing interviews all over TV and radio and newspapers and magazines and blogs and elsewhere online? Remember him being EVERYWHERE promoting her campaign and party unity?

?

??

???

????

????????????????????

No. You can’t. None of us can.

Because there wasn’t any.

Team player much, Bernie? Oh. I see. I get it. Your answer is a qualified yes - only if YOU’RE the anointed leader of the team.

I will vote for him because I’ve taken the Indivisible Pledge to vote blue no matter who. And I will vote for Bernie if I have to, if he’s the party nominee. But only if I have to.

[ramen]

72. That is not my memory of the campaign after Sanders lost the nomination.

Here is an example that does match my recall more closely: https://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/bernie-sanderss-hard-fight-for-hillary-clinton

[calimary]

105. I noted that article was from November 2016.

Last edited Tue Feb 18, 2020, 03:42 AM - Edit history (1)

There’s this, too, from May 2019...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/05/30/politics/bernie-sanders-umbrage-clinton-2016/index.html?client=safari

Sanders in 2020 speaks frequently about 2016, but only to highlight the ascent of his policies within the Democratic party. The hard feelings -- among both his and Clinton's supporters -- that escalated during that primary and hardened after Donald Trump's victory are rarely discussed, but never too far from the surface. When questioned, Sanders, like he did on Thursday, is quick to note his considerable travel on the nominee's behalf. By his campaign's count, Sanders did 39 rallies for Clinton in 13 states over the final three months of the 2016 general election.

Still, Sanders occasionally runs into criticism from voters and party operatives who believe that his candidacy -- in particular his decision to continue his 2016 primary campaign even after the contest was effectively over -- ended up hurting Clinton that November.

Clinton herself accused Sanders of damaging her electoral chances in her book "What Happened," which was published after she lost the election.

"His attacks caused lasting damage, making it harder to unify progressives in the general election and paving the way for Trump's 'Crooked Hillary' campaign," Clinton wrote in 2017.

This one seems to support both of our positions, yours up top, mine at its closing.

Yes. Bernie got with the program AFTER the convention. But Hillary clinched the nomination rather decisively in June. We didn’t hear from Bernie til after the convention - a convention in which his supporters continued to boo and heckle to the point where even former Bernie supporter Sarah Silverman spoke out from on stage during her own speech, scolding them and telling them basically to grow up and get with the reality that he didn’t have enough delegates to win the nomination. While Hillary did.

They attempted to disrupt throughout the convention anyway. I watched all week, and I remember getting angry about that.

And Bernie sat things out during some really valuable run-up time between the last primaries in June and the end of the convention.

Okay though. AFTER the convention he did come aboard. And I watched that, too. And, gotta tell ya, I watched, hoping to see Bernie our there. Onstage with her. Making speeches and appearances in rallies AND on TV. Urging everybody to unite behind her. I watch both MSNBC and CNN religiously. And maybe I missed the coverage him doing lots of that.

And as the article notes: “39 rallies in the last three months.” That works out to an average of 13 per month. Okay, good, assuming those three months were each 15-20 days long. And, um, to look at any calendar, the last three months (August, September, and October), had 31, 30, and 31 days in them. And that was AFTER the convention’s last night (nomination night). The months between the end of primary season, mid-June til the convention, were valuable time for urging party unity - that he deliberately ignored and didn’t make use of, except to stay silent while his more aggressive supporters had a field day trashing Hillary AND those of us who supported her. And he uttered not a peep.

The time to push for party unity behind the one single nominee was lost. Squandered. Left unused. When that time was needed most. By convention time, the “sore loserman” effect was solidly baked in and all the more difficult to dislodge.

On edit - all that said, I took the Indivisible Pledge, Vowng to vote for The Democratic Nominee, whoever he or she may be. And if that winds up being Bernie, he’s got my vote.

[ramen]

117. I absolutely agree that more time spent on unity would have been far more effective.

I think that was a major tactical error on his part. In his defense, I think this with the benefit of hindsight and, at the time, a trump victory was considered highly unlikely. My guess is that his approach was aimed at the broader political consideration, trying to get things like adequate health care and higher minimum wage closer to the mainstream within the party. The effect, obviously, turned out to be utter mayhem in the executive branch, in a way that I don't think many of us saw coming.

That doesn't mean it wasn't a huge mistake. I think it was. And it's part of why I am so hellbent on party unity this time around. Those days were bad. We desperatelt need to right the situation in the white house, and I am pretty sure we can't do it without every possible voter.

My two cents. I appreciate your perspective here.

[calimary]

118. Well, I'm certainly with ya on that, my friend (party unity, that is)!

Heck, I remember when Ronald Reagan threw everybody for a loop, including his diehard supporters, when he opined that if Earth were about to be invaded by space aliens, that would be a surefire way to unite EVERYBODY here, despite all our usual differences that keep us divided! A lot of people thought he was momentarily nuts (as opposed to just plain-all-the-time nuts as many of us on this side of the aisle believed). But he had a point. And it was a good one.

So in this case, there is a another looming threat that imperils us all: trump. And he presents more of an existential emergency than ANY space aliens, real or imagined, this side of those Sigourney Weaver movies.

I don't mind repeating myself: I took the Indivisible Pledge - to vote for WHOEVER it is, carrying our standard into battle in November. I'm down as a Biden person now, and I'm waiting to see how he fares in the next two contests, Nevada and South Carolina. And I'm ready to embrace somebody different if he crumbles. Bernie is NOT my choice. Not my first runner-up. Nor second, nor nineteenth. But by Jove if it winds up being Bernie anyway, then so be it. He's got my vote.

[ramen]

122. Count me in on that pledge.

The Reagan/alien invasion bit, though outlandish, is very real.. see Watchmen for a fleshed-out version of that narrative. And the current DC overseer and his gang of morons is that alien invasion. I'll stand with whoever is opposed to them, and I'll seek to find any and all common ground with that crowd. I just can't afford four (or who knows how many) more years of this terrifying insanity.

[Pachamama]

78. +100000

Completely Agree Calimary

[betsuni]

120. +1

[CaptainTruth]

57. Have you been seeing his promoted campaign tweets?

No, I don't have a detailed numerical analysis but I've been seeing them in my Twitter feed for months & I swear it seemed like half of them were attacking Democrats &/or the Democratic party as part of the "political establishment." Far more than attacking Trump. I got REALLY sick of it & many of us responded calling him out on it.

From what I see on Twitter now he's backed off of that in the past couple months, thankfully.

[ramen]

73. I am not on twitter except when folks at DU link to it,

so I could definitely have missed that, but have not seen anything like that these past months, either.

[Cha]

76. You really just have to have been paying attention..

for quite awhile now.

[ramen]

99. So I just listened to the entire speech that the OP linked to in the comments.

It begins with several minutes of consecutive lovefest where Sanders asserts that all the candidates are awesome, that any would make a great nominee, that Nevada is going to turn blue, and that he means to help as much as possible. It reads like party unity first, and also here are my qualifications and policy priorities second. If any other Democrat gave this speech, all of us would be cheering.

I'm not hearing anything like Guttenberg asserted. I think what is happening he is stoking relitigation of the 2016 primaries and playing on biases to divide the party needlessly. I have no interest in going back to those bad old days. Let's move forward, and let's do it together, whoever has the mantle, and get this burning trashpile out of the oval office.

[Cha]

111. I knolw Fred Guttenberg knows what he's talking about.

[Fla Dem]

4. I'm with Fred! No truer words were ever spoken.

[Perseus]

33. "No truer words were ever spoken" Wow, that says a lot

I wonder why you think these are "No truer words were ever spoken"...I have been trying to find statements from Sanders to backup what Fred said and I have failed. Can you please help out and provide texts or videos that backup Fred's statement that is so true?

Thank you.

[Cartoonist]

5. Vote blue

So, Sanders will cost us the election. Is that because you won't vote blue, Fred? Then FU.

[Perseus]

21. Yeap, but I hope when November comes around he doesn't do the stupid and votes for Sanders

If Sanders becomes the nominee.

I read these comments against our own and besides becoming irritated by it, and sad that we continue to shoot ourselves on the foot, it is hard to believe that "Democrats" are working against Democrats, I have to believe that many have either become fanatics of their candidates, or forces behind who have no interest in any of the Democratic candidates and of the Democratic nominee winning the presidency are behind all the vitriol that is going on.

This war against Sanders will not end up well. I have been saying this for a while now, it needs to stop.

[reACTIONary]

38. Don't know about Fred, but....

.... I have a good friend who despises Trump and is right royally pissed off at him but will not, under any circumstances vote for socialist Sanders or Warren, who she puts into the same category with him.

She is very lukewarm on Biden. But when Bloomberg announced, she immediately and enthusiastically gave him her support.

I'm not worried about Fred - I'm worried about her and folks like her.

[aikoaiko]

6. We know, Fred. You keep telling us over and over that you're anti-Bernie.

And yes you deserve all the criticism you will receive.

[Cha]

80. Fred Guttenberg is absolutely correct.

[aikoaiko]

81. And s lot of Democrats like what Bernie is doing

including me

[Cha]

82. A lot don't

[Devil Child]

7. If Mr. Guttenberg despises Sen. Sanders that just elevates Sanders's standing to me.

Thanks Mr. Guttenberg!

[comradebillyboy]

8. I share Fred's concern.

[DIVINEprividence]

9. Bernie - Democrats are not the enemy

The “establishment” are the ones who actually have to do the dirty work and craft and pass legislation which requires a certain degree of compromise. Sanders has his cushy seat in Vermont and can afford to be an “idealist”. He is full of it. Plus if he is the nominee, Trump will drop the hammer on Bernie’s rape fantasies with the FOX News noise machine amplifying it 24/7 and Bernie will put all us Democrats in the position of having to explain this crap where our biggest advantage is enthusiasm of women voters. Read Sanders rape fantasies for yourself and ask yourself if this is what you want to defend in the general election.

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/05/29/410606045/the-bernie-sanders-rape-fantasy-essay-explained

[DanieRains]

14. Legislation With Tens Of Thousands Of Loopholes

To help the wealthy corporate owners reap more.

Legislation like giving untaxed Boeing 10 billion in tax cuts.

Corporate profits shouldn't be ahead of my family's future.

[KPN]

37. +1000000! Exactly right.

We are where we are for a reason.

[reACTIONary]

41. What's your family's future look like....

.... if Trump gets another term?

[aikoaiko]

18. The essay you linked does a great job of explaining the Bernie's essay.

It was a fictional account depicting the emptiness and desperation of lonely people.

[reACTIONary]

42. Explaining? If you are explaining....

.... you are losing.

[aikoaiko]

44. Not really. But you'll soon see Bloomberg explaining himself more.

[reACTIONary]

84. Bloomberg has a lot of explaing to do....

...to AAs in the primary. If he makes it through the primary, that will be behind him.

[AverageJoe]

23. Yes, this is much worse than racial profiling, stop and frisk, and redlining

I’m not attacking you — and sadly I feel the need to say that with all the crazy attacks on any Sanders supporter who raises their head on DU — but I can’t imagine a more troubling back story for a Democratic Presidential candidate than admitted, systemic racism.

[Perseus]

43. I defend Sanders and every other candidate when I can

And I am appalled about the vitriol against Sanders in DU, and the joy of some people when Sanders is criticized, but by the same token Sanders' supporters must stop about the criticism you show in your post about Bloomberg and his "Frisk and Stop" which he understood was the wrong thing to do, stopped it and made up for it.

Bloomberg has actually done very well for the State of New York, and his intentions seem to be very good, he is a decent and intelligent man, and yes all candidates have done and said stupid things in their lives, but people change and when it comes that people like Bloomberg who have been on the right side of history during his last 10 years at least, then lets focus on that.

I don't like it when people attack Sanders because of something he said in 1989, and I am sure you don't either, so lets make sure we are aware of how we feel when we are attacked and not do the same to someone else.

We need civility, we need to support each other, because they way its going, and I repeat myself, it will not end well for Democrats.

[AverageJoe]

66. I agree, Perseus

It’s counter productive. Apologies to all.

[cilla4progress]

49. What candidate doesn't have

liabilities??!!



We certainly know of Bloomberg's.

[calimary]

59. Thank you!

[lsewpershad]

10. Who the hell

are you?

[BigOleDummy]

11. Why so much

Hate for Mr. Guttenberg? He's a very high profile and passionate advocate for gun control. I share many of his concerns about Bernie myself to be entirely honest. I like Mr. Sanders a lot actually but have always thought and continue to think he does much more good in the Senate than he could accomplice as President. Like it or not way too many people think "Socialism" equals "Communism" and I fear his candidacy will not only deprive us of the White House but also any chance at all of taking the Senate.

[DanieRains]

15. And The Same 100 Million Voters Will Stay Home

Like last time.

Sanders puts people before corporations.

That will never win an election.

The billionaire controlled MSM will rob Democrats again.

Ignoring Trumps thousands of crimes while blasting email conspiracies.

The game is truly rigged.

[KPN]

51. But that's okay. We will have the stay home voters to blame. It's them, not us or the "system".!

[Sapient Donkey]

116. Isn't that sort of a "if I don't get my way 100% then I will help burn it all down" type of thing?

[Devil Child]

104. Why? Because he's a very high profile and passionate advocate for gun control.

That’s why I do not care for Mr. Guttenberg. There are Democrats and those on the left like me who don’t view our 2nd amendment liberties like Mr. Guttenberg and his allies do.

[ananda]

12. I don't care.

Sanders really is the best candidate, bar none!

[UniteFightBack]

22. He has the most avenues to be attacked upon....weakest candidate...PLUS, when he does not

deliver all those promises it will damage the Democratic party greatly....do you care about that or WHAT.

[ananda]

112. What Sanders promotes is what the vast majority of Americans want ...

Not corrupt.

Puts people first.

Will make M4A a priority.

Will not be beholden to any billionaires or corporations.

All plusses.

[UniteFightBack]

113. We have to win via an electoral college...not what most people want. nt

[Texin]

13. I agree with Mr. Guttenberg.

[AverageJoe]

17. While I have great empathy and respect for Fed Guttenberg

I disagree with his assessment of this situation.

[paleotn]

19. Because he has no problem with 4 more years of our current nightmare?

What's he going to do if Sanders ends up being the nominee? Stay home in November? Oh, sure...let the democracy die because I just don't like someone who's yards away from me on policy. Jesus fucking Christ on a goddamn stick! It's fucking 2016 all over again and we've learned not one goddamn thing!!!!

[KPN]

55. Precisely!

[Cha]

94. This is the Primary.. Fred Guttenberg has a right to

speak out.. like everyone.

[paleotn]

96. Granted, but as we saw in 2016...

What starts in the primary doesn't always stay in the primary. And he didn't preface his remarks with "this only applies to the primary" or "I'll support whoever the Democratic nominee turns out to be." Goddamn it, we've all got to stick together and I mean ALL of us or the country is done! The only thing standing between us and full on fascism is Nov. 2nd. If we fuck this up over petty bullshit, we've only ourselves to blame. And I ain't going to be pointing a finger at myself when it comes to that. Others? Well?

[Cha]

97. Yeah, but Fred wants trump Gone.

[BlueIdaho]

20. Swarm! Swarm! Swarm! 😉

[DanieRains]

24. Maybe If A Candidate Said Billionaires Should Pay Taxes Like The Rest Of Us They Could Get Elected

Ya think?

1% of the population has as much wealth as the rest of us. The 99%.

Maybe all the candidates could point out this fact.

Why is it only Bernie, and Elizabeth?

I won's speculate why, because I don't want my account suspended.....

[PatrickforO]

25. That's a bit unfair. But just a bit.

The rest of the candidates seem to have settled into a mode where they are trying to contrast themselves positively with the others rather than tearing anyone down. Unlike 2016, for sure.

Bernie's surrogates seem to be the only ones really playing rough and tumble, though a couple of the candidates who are no longer in the race did a bit of that.

But I will say this - the candidate I see who is actively running AGAINST the Democrats isn't Bernie. It is Tulsi Gabbard. She is increasingly irrelevant, though. But she's said and done some things that go against us.

Bernie's platform is supported by many of us. Bernie keeps winning primaries because people want healthcare. And arguments aside, if our tax code were thoroughly reformed, including the things both Bernie and Elizabeth want to put in there, as well as repealing the 2017 cut, and even going back and repealing tax cuts back to Reagan, we could all HAVE healthcare. We could.

NOTHING, NO ONE can ever convince me that we 'can't afford' Medicare for all. Don't bother talking 'realpolitik' to me about it either, because that doesn't wash - not when we spend over $700 billion a year on war and give all these greed-head billionaire parasites giant tax cuts that not only preclude being able to afford to expand Medicare, but endanger the rest of the safety net programs we depend on.

If we actually had a responsible fiscal policy that included responsible taxation, our lives could be materially better through things like health care and debt free college. But you know, the media just trumpets 'oh they are giving away FREE things!!!' That is SUCH bullshit.

[KPN]

56. Hear, hear!

[redstatebluegirl]

26. Yep, but if by some miracle he is the nominee I will vote for him.

[YOHABLO]

28. By some miracle Biden is the nominee I will vote for him.

[YOHABLO]

27. You want drastic gun legislation Fred? Go after the Republicans, not Sanders.

[blue-wave]

31. Pin point spot-on accurate!

[showblue22]

32. I stand with Fred

Bernie attacks democrats so much I feel like he despises them. Since I am a proud democrats, I feel he despises me.

[calimary]

65. It does kinda leave that impression, doesn't it!

[betsuni]

121. I feel the same way.

[NJCher]

58. who is Fred Guttenberg?

And why should anyone care?

[highplainsdem]

60. Most people here know, for good reason. If you looked at that link and the info about Fred on

Twitter, or if you used the Google search in the upper right corner of every page here to search for his name on this site (hundreds of mentions on DU), you'd be able to answer your own question quickly.

Or just use Google, period. Check for his name and you'll get nearly 1-1/2 million results, and a short profile and a link to the Wikipedia page on the first page of results.

[blue-wave]

61. How bone chilling cold of you

Fred Guttenberg is an American activist against gun violence. His 14-year-old daughter Jaime Guttenberg[1] was killed in the Stoneman Douglas High School shooting on February 14, 2018. His son, also a student at the school, ran from the shooting to meet him at a nearby store.[2] He learned about his daughter's death from a friend who is a Coral Springs SWAT officer.[3] Jessica McBride, for the website Heavy described him as "one of the strongest voices for changes to gun laws in the wake of the mass shooting."[4]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Guttenberg

[NJCher]

67. ok thanks

at least you provided useful information, even though you couldn't resist the judgementalism.

[blue-wave]

92. Your Welcome

Even though you can't resist the snark-ism.

[RandiFan1290]

101. * you're

[lapucelle]

63. Parkland dad to Sanders over past gun views: 'Your votes and what you've done are still there"

Link to tweet

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/21/politics/bernie-sanders-parkland-father-gun-votes/index.html

[KPN]

64. Fred should stick to gun control. I appreciate his confrontation with Kavanaugh and all,

and I'm behind him 100% on guns. On the other hand, I couldn't disagree more with him regarding Sanders or his sense of what "running against the Dem party" is and looks like. Sanders and Warren are the only two Democratic candidates remaining who actually speak to and present realistic solutions to the fundamental failures in our current politico-economic system. They each have millions of Democratic Party supporters Mr. Guttenberg -- you do not constitute the party.

[Cha]

75. Fred Guttenberg can say what he wants.. just like

everyone else.

[KPN]

77. So can I.

[Cha]

79. That's what I said.. "like everyone else".

[Neema]

86. I really don't like this type of comment. Why should any citizen be told to "stick to..."?

He's an adult, an American, and has been pretty involved in politics since his daughter's murder (maybe even before, I don't know). It's fine for you to disagree with his opinion, and to express your disagreement, but why dismiss him as unworthy of it?

[NurseJackie]

106. It's a way to be dismissive and insulting...

... and it's a "tactic" that reveals whenever someone knows they are in a position of weakness, or when they know that their opponent is intellectually superior. In this case, it's clear the Fred Guttenberg is a very intelligent man and that he has made an excellent case to support his arguments and viewpoints.

[Neema]

110. It's incredibly dismissive and insulting, and has no place on this forum. It's the kind of thing RW

fools like to trot out every time a celebrity expresses an opinion, and we should be better than that.

[Gothmog]

83. Here is another reason why Fred Gittrnberg will not for sanders

Link to tweet

[Neema]

89. Yeah, that one was really, really egregious. Joe Biden isn't my first choice by any means but

he's buried a wife and multiple children, so this display is beyond disgusting.

[NurseJackie]

93. Fred speaks for me. I stand with Fred.

[Gothmog]

98. Has sanders condemned this stunt yet?

Link to tweet

?s=20

[greymattermom]

103. My daughters are both Sanders supporters.

Maybe the Sanders supporters can get the younger folks to the polls and flip the Senate and a bunch of local races. But, they will have to show up to vote in the primary first. That's the big test for them. Showing up at the polls in a month like March.

[LeftTurn3623]

107. well seeing Bloomberg helped elected Republicans against the Dem party

he might need to re-look at who he is supporting

[betsuni]

119. Correct.

"Bernie is running against the Dem party"

[Gothmog]

123. Fred Guttenberg endorses Joe Biden

Link to tweet

?s=20