Note: all swing/indie votes count the same.

[DanTex]

Something strangely illogical about centrist pundits and tweeters who attack Bernie Sanders.

On the one hand, they talk about the importance of winning over "suburban moderates" and "Never Trump republicans" (e.g. Jennifer Rubin). If we nominate Bernie, the story goes, they might vote Trump or not at all, and Trump gets re-elected. But then, when it comes to disaffected left-wingers (e.g. Susan Sarandon) and ideologically heterodox voters (e.g. Joe Rogan), who might vote Trump or not at all if we nominate someone like Biden/Bloomberg, all they have is pure disdain.

Which makes no sense whatsoever. All these types of voters exist, and every vote counts exactly the same.

Why do centrist pundits insist that we need to be mindful of the Jennifer Rubins of the world, but recoil with animosity at the though of being mindful of the Sarandons and Rogans?

Anyone who would do anything except vote for the Dem in the general election is making a huge mistake. To me, lefties who think a centrist like Biden is no different that Trump are morons. And moderates who wouldn't vote for "socialism", even to stop Trump, are also morons. But, both morally and mathematically speaking, they are the same.

[squirecam]

1. Susan voted for Stein.

So she wasn’t a maybe or possibly. And a vote for Stein was a vote for a Trump.

[Amimnoch]

2. So do Republican votes for Bernie.

https://www.wyff4.com/article/upstate-conservative-campaign-encourages-republicans-to-vote-for-bernie-sanders-in-sc-presidential-primary/30780304#

"This is an opportunity for us to support President Trump. We can't vote for him in primary this year so we can help him by participating in the Democrat Primary and voting for the candidate we feel is least electable and is also creating a lot of dissension between The Democratic Party and the Democrat voters,” said Shea.

https://thehill.com/homenews/481489-republicans-urging-gop-voters-to-vote-for-sanders-in-south-carolina-primary-report

Leupp said that he believes that the state's large Republican voter base could make the difference in the primary. To his point, in 2016 roughly 740,000 people voted in the state's GOP presidential primary, while only 370,000 voted in the Democratic version.
“I think we can easily affect the outcome,” Leupp told the paper. “This is going to catch on like wildfire.”

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/07/bernie-sanders-republican-senate-1307296

Republicans like their chances of keeping the Senate in 2020. But there’s one thing they think would all but seal the deal: Bernie Sanders as the Democratic presidential nominee.
Some GOP incumbents are practically cheering him on, confident there’s no way a self-described democratic socialist could win a general election against President Donald Trump and that he’d drag other Democrats on the ballot with him.

“It would be good for us to have a nominee like that,” said Sen. Joni Ernst (R-Iowa), who is up for reelection next year and sounded downright giddy about the prospect of Sanders representing Democrats at the top of the ticket.

Unfortunately those are going to count the same as well.

[bluedye33139]

3. Susan Sarandon is a hard pass for me

For decades, she was friends with Gore Vidal, who in the final years of his life wrote in defense of Timothy McVeigh and terrorist attacks on America. He hated the Democratic party, pushed and promoted Laura Ingraham, and spent years attacking every Democratic politician. She soaked up a lot of that. She is not a force for good.

[DanTex]

4. Me too. Same with Jennifer Rubin and David Frum.

But even though I don't agree with people, we still need people to vote for the Democratic candidate in November.

[beastie boy]

5. What I find strange is this:

Bernie is very vocal about being a uniter for the benefit of the Democratic Party, and his supporters and surrogates find any excuse to justify being divisive.

This is not only illogical, it is downright schizophrenic.

BTW, the Sarandons and Rogans of this world are equivalent to the Yiannopouloses and Gorkas on the right, not suburban moderates. Tell me, which pundits advocate for winning Gorka over?

False equivalencies inevitably lead to nonsensical arguments and conclusions.

[DanTex]

6. Umm, Gorka and Milo would never vote Dem under any circumstance.

Nobody talks about winning the votes of far-right people to the Democratic nominee because that would never happen.

But people like Sarandon and Rogan and Rubin would vote Dem under certain circumstances but maybe not others.

[beastie boy]

7. Neither would Sarandon and Rogan. The likelihood of them them voting for a Democrat

not named Sanders is zero.We know this to be an absolute certainty because we still remember what happened in 2016.

Hence the equivalency. The Sarandons and the Rogans of this world are as much anti-Democratic as The Milos and the Gorkas.

[DanTex]

8. Umm, you just described a circumstance in which they would vote Dem.

[beastie boy]

9. If Roger Stone declares himself a democrat and run for Presiden, does he suddenly become a Democrat?

And would you expect his groupies to vote for any other Democrats than himself if he doesn't get nominated?

Semantics is a nice game to play, but it is a poor argument.

[DanTex]

10. You're not seriously comparing Bernie Sanders and Roger Stone...

Bernie is a progressive, and one of the leading contenders actually running for president. Roger Stone is a felon.

[beastie boy]

11. For the purpose of the analogy I am making, yes, I am.

If you don't like Bernie compared to Stone in any context, knock yourself out and substitute Stone with Jill Stein, or any other non-Democrat. My argument will not suffer one bit if you do.

[DanTex]

12. LOL. OK, well, absurd analogies notwithstanding...

In the real world, Susan Sarandon and Jennifer Rubin are both people who would vote Dem under plausible circumstances, but not all circumstances.

[beastie boy]

15. There is only one plausible circumstance for Sarandon:

If Bernie temporarily declares himself a Democrat. Or else she will not. We know this for a fact, this is what she did in 16.
For Rubin, I have reason to suspect the circumstances include the majority of Democratic candidates.

Big difference.

[DanTex]

16. At least one. She supported Obama.

And Bernie is currently the leading contender, in polls as well as betting markets, so that one circumstance is the most likely circumstance.

The only real difference is that Sarandon is a liberal and Rubin is a conservative. It makes sense that conservatives would take to Rubin more, and liberals would take to Sarandon more. But as far as being "Blue no matter who," neither of them are.

[radius777]

13. Suburban voters (especially female) may be the most important

voters in American politics, because they are an informed/educated swing voter, and more importantly, being upper-middle class, are socially influential - the middle and working class voters will follow what they do. Madison Ave prizes the soccer mom/dad for this reason, marketing to them hoping they embrace the product/store/etc so the rest will follow.

So no, not all swing votes are equal. Especially not the votes of cranks like Sarandon, Rogan, etc - who would tend to repulse other voters.

[DanTex]

14. This is precisely the mistaken thinking that led to the 2016 loss.

Believing that the votes of suburban moderates somehow count more than leftists or working class whites or other kinds of voters that don't go for centrism.

Madison Ave prizes them because they have money, but they still only get one vote.

As far as influence, Joe Rogan has seven million subscribers, a lot more influence than random upper-middle-class suburbanites.