Bernie's brilliant ruse

[redstateblues]

Free college. Amazing how it gets the big crowds in college towns. Ain't gonna happen. Klobchar has a plan that makes sense-It won't draw huge crowds but it has a chance of passing and reducing tuition costs.

[CalFione]

1. This is an attempt to "buy the election" as much as anything Bloomberg is doing

The one big difference is that Bernie knows he would never be able to pass such a thing. He's cynically banking on the naivete of his target audience.

[Moderateguy]

3. He needs to be seriously questioned on how he plans...

on delivering all these pie-in-the-sky promises he keeps making. They really need to question him in the debates before we get to a point where he gets questions like this in the general and folds

[HarlanPepper]

5. Yes. Unfortunately the details don't seem to matter much. If at all.

[squirecam]

13. Bloomberg will get his chance

To discuss it face to face or at a CNN forum with voter questions.

[BlueIdaho]

16. They aren't plans

They are utopian dreams...

[Blue_true]

43. Sanders won't get seriously questioned by a reporter or by a debate moderator.

You see it here on DU, any time Sanders get a tough question in a debate and can't answer it, the moderator that asked the question get called all types of stuff and said to be out for Sanders. Who wants to bother with that? No one wants to be torn down on social media or be left wondering whether someone will look for them personally.

[LongtimeAZDem]

15. Exactly right

[Cha]

17. +1!

[Amimnoch]

34. Worse. It's an attempt to "lie an election".

The worst thing that could actually happen to Bernie (and the Democratic Party), would be for him to actually win the nomination and go on to win the election.

For those who may have short memories.. remember the shit storm President Obama got his first year in office? I do. The center of his platform was a comprehensive affordable healthcare plan. Well, he won on that platform, The ACA did eventually get passed, but required so many compromises that a large number of his most ardent supporters were blasting him as having lied to them. Then in 2010 mid-term elections the Republicans gained 63 seats, and control of the House of Representatives. We did maintain control of the Senate for another couple of years, but still the Republicans netted a gain of 6 seats in the Senate that year.

If you make big promises on the campaign trail, you need to have a path to deliver, or.. there will be consequences if you do manage to win.

If he does win, he's in for a rough time of his adoring base turning on him as he fails again and again to deliver the things he's promised since he will lack a congress that will pass it.

My single biggest concern is if he does win, and the Democratic Party does manage to get impure compromise legislation that moves us forward some.. What will he do? He signs off on it, he'll be the great betrayer to his base. He doesn't sign it, we get no progress at all.

[treestar]

38. +1 I remember those days

POSUCS and Kill the Bill and the rest of it. Even a Democratic Congress was not enough. As soon as MA put a Republican in for Ted K's seat, the public option was gone. We saw how undemocratic the Senate was from that. Between their set up and the filibuster, we know we can at most get incremental change every once in a while. Only when Ds have both houses and a supermajority in the Senate can be get something "revolutionary."

[question everything]

2. When will the mighty AOC remove the curtain over this issue, the way she did with M4A

[Moderateguy]

6. Lol

😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂

[billpolonsky]

7. Yah

It's best to ask for crumbs or nothing.

Negotiate from a position of weakness is the tradional way isn't it?

[Quixote1818]

23. The traditional Democratic Party way lately. FDR was the last Dem to know how to negotiate

it seems.

[betsuni]

31. He had a large majority in the legislature, Great Depression, strong unions, Dust Bowl, etc.

[snowybirdie]

33. LBJ was no slouch

He passed all the bills of the Great Society like early childhood education, college funding, Medicare/Medicaid plus many new grants that benefited millions. Granted the Congress was stunned by the Kennedy assassination, however he was a master negotiator as Senate Leader.

[treestar]

40. It's not bargaining over the price of

a horse. There are too many facets to it. And then you have to compromise somewhere.

[msongs]

8. we're spending a trillion on his Lockeheed buddies' F35 thats stationed in VT nt

[Quixote1818]

24. If it wasn't in Vermont it would have been in another state. So good for Sanders in having the clout

to get it placed in his state.

[SunSeeker]

32. It doesn't take any clout to sell out to a defense contractor.

You do realize defense contractors spread their work out all across the country so they can broaden the support for their pork barrel projects. The F-35 is a classic example of this scheme.

One reason why the project has become such a boondoggle is that many states and countries are significantly invested in the plane, relying on its production for income and jobs.

Every U.S. state but Alaska, Hawaii, Nebraska, and Wyoming has economic ties to the F-35, with 18 states counting on the project for $100 million or more in economic activity, according to primary contractor Lockheed Martin. All told, the project is supposedly responsible for 32,500 jobs in the U.S. Globally, another nine countries have major ties to the F-35.

https://www.businessinsider.com/this-map-explains-the-f-35-fiasco-2014-8

It didn't take any "clout" for Bernie to let his state get addicted to that sweet sweet MIC money. He just let his state fall in line to feed at the trough, like 45 other states.

[elleng]

9. NO ONE's 'big plans' will work without Congressional (including Senate) agreement,

EVERYONE should recognize this, but it seems many don't (here and elsewhere.)

Of course all candidates are trying to 'buy' the election, sadly that's the way our 'system' works.

[Cha]

18. Oh Yeah? I see none of what you are asserting. This is the

Primary and all the candidates are being Vetted.. No one is Exempt.

[jcmaine72]

22. +1000 Spot on!

[Cha]

37. No It Is NOT!

[jcmaine72]

45. Yes it was

Whatever it was when it was there, that is.

[Cha]

46. No

[jcmaine72]

47. I can prove it!!!!

Here's a direct quote from the post above we're discussing.....














Did you get all that?

[MontanaFarmer]

26. You'll never, ever see free college for everyone in this country.

That's not being a "moderate," that's being someone with a modicum of reality and honesty. I can't see voting for someone who has an entire agenda that's grounded somewhere far different than reality. Medicare for all? Sure, as a party that's a discussion and debate that's worth having. Free college for the country? Please.

[MontanaFarmer]

28. I'm with you to a point.

I'm not willing to spend energy fighting for free college. Want to reduce tuition for kids, debt for kids? Great. But I'm not interested in the us government giving everyone a college education who thinks they want one. I'd rather spend our energy fighting for meaningful action on climate, or a large public investment in infrastructure, quality healthcare outcomes. If this was simply an exercise of name-your-policy, and one could speak it into being, that's one thing. Any one of those policy goals will require political blood and treasure to achieve, and I'm not willing to even entertain spending them on something that is THE definition of pie-in-the-sky.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

29. No worries, the ease with which Bernie dispatched Biden, he'll do the same with Bloomberg!!

Only it'll be even easier!! FEEL THE BERN BABY!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[ehrnst]

35. Since Biden and Bloomberg are polling higher against Trump than Bernie...

I don't think "dispatched" means what you think it does.



Bloomberg's at +6, Biden's at +5.6 and Sanders is...... +4.3


https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_bloomberg-6797.html

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_biden-6247.html

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-6250.html

[Cha]

41. Thank you for the Enlightenment, ehrnst!

Last edited Mon Feb 17, 2020, 11:30 PM - Edit history (2)

[Cha]

39. Sorry, you're wrong.. there's been no "dispatching".

[denem]

11. Economic Rights are Human Rights

including "the right to as much education as one needs to succeed in our society".

High school was enough back in the day. Not anymore.

[DanTex]

12. I don't really understand why people would be against this.

Is the argument that it's better to keep taxes on the rich low than it is for anyone to be able to go to college or trade school? Why should it be easier for kids from wealthy families to get a good education? Isn't it an inherently good thing to have a better educated populace?

Lots of nations have free college, it's not like this is some crazy radical thing. I find the opposition strange, unless it's just a "Bernie's for it so I'm against it" thing.

[CalFione]

25. Not against it. Just know it has 0% chance of happening.

And Bernie knows it too. He is just cynically playing on the naivete of his young supporters.


And when it doesn't happen, Bernie will say that the "big money interests" blocked him. And then the young people will get really disillusioned.


Making promises that we know can't be kept is something the GOP always does. We shouldn't. We need to be straight with people. Some college loan relief can happen - but you and I (and Bernie!) know that full forgiveness of $1.5 trillion in loans is never going to happen, and that free college (other than possibly community college) will also never happen.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

30. Of course it's just a "Bernie's for it so I'm against it" thing... splains everything pretty much.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[highplainsdem]

14. It isn't just his promise of free college in the future. It's his $1.6 trillion plan to forgive all

student debt, no matter how many hundreds of thousands an individual might owe after law school or medical school, no matter how able the person is to repay it. And the financial windfall will be tax-free. The free-college offer is several hundred billion on top of that.

[Quixote1818]

19. You have to ask for a lot to get a little in politics. Sanders is doing it exactly right.

Of course he won't get 100% of what he is asking for but by starting out by asking for a lot, if he wins he might be able to get them to meet him part way, closer to where Klobuchar is starting out. Klobuchar will end up with a lot less because of where she is starting. Did anyone here ever take political science in college?

[Laelth]

36. +1 n/t

-Laelth

[treestar]

42. That won't happen

in this context.

If you ask for $300,000 for something that is worth $100, the other side just things you are nuts. They don't become willing, just because you asked for 300K, to offer you $100,000.

[David__77]

20. Echoes of Romney's "47%."

And the claim that Medicaid expansion, food stamps, etc., are electoral ploys to cobble together a coalition.

[redstateblues]

48. Why should we pay for a millionaires kid's college?

There are over 14 Million Millionaires in the US. My daughter commuted to a state school and got a great education without racking up huge debt. Community college is free in this state as it is in many others.

[David__77]

49. Why should we pay for their fourth grade education?

There are public goods.

[emmaverybo]

21. I like Biden's educational plan because it focuses on the most crucial learning years, pre-K through

12. It also calls for free two year colleges and making four year colleges more affordable. Investment in teacher salaries and pre-college. Certainly has a chance of passing and a well-informed plan it is.

So many steps can be taken to alleviate college debt without a massive giveaway to people whose college education has afforded them high enough salaries to be able to pay. This is not true in all cases, but we can remedy this ballooning debt for those many people without breaking the bank.

Mortgage debt is taking away people’s homes and whole communities. Credit card debt is the killer for millennials. Whose debt and which debt should we pay off?

[Zolorp]

44. The Sanders answer every time he's asked how he will pay for it is "Tax the billionaires"

By my reckoning, every billionaire in America will have to give up about three times their current holdings to cover all the giveaways Sanders has promised.