My party is on the verge

[evertonfc]

of nominating a Democratic Socialist, not a Democrat. In doing so, will lose the general election, lose house seats and forever label our party as Democratic socialists. It will be something we will pay for at the ballot box in middle America. Are we Democrats or Democratic Socialists? There is a difference. Sanders has made a living disparaging Democrats. It's about time we call him out. My guess is its about to happen ten fold. Sanders will be a electoral disaster.

[UniteFightBack]

1. In addition after all these promises can't be fulfilled it will DAMAGE the Democratic Party...and

ya know what we can't have that.

[Renew Deal]

2. There is a decent possibility of a third party run if Sanders looks like the nominee

Someone will come along to be the "reasonable" choice for both parties.

[ForEverGlades]

20. Point taken, but....

Don'tcha think there's a really good chance of that if someone like Bloomie gets it too?

[Renew Deal]

30. There is always the chance of some fringe russia backed candidate like Stein

But they won't get very far. The reason why it's more of a threat is that a "centrist" candidate can run on a platform of both parties being too extreme. Unfortunately it probably helps Trump more than it helps us.

[ForEverGlades]

33. Probably right

on the centrist thing.
I don't know much about it, but Anderson ran as Independent against Reagan and Carter.
Looks like he took more from the Dems for sure.
Hopefully not too many of Bernie's folks will leave if he doesn't get it.
More likely they just don't vote at all I guess.

[FoxNewsSucks]

6. +1000

[showblue22]

4. I worry day and night over this

Centrist are splitting the vote.

[question everything]

24. Unless some brave Republicans - if any left - will decide to join such a

Centric party, leaving the ones who still adore Trump, who think that anyone who is not white should “go back.”

[FoxNewsSucks]

5. Could you explain to me

what is the difference between a "Democratic Socialist" and a "Democrat"? Why is the former worse?

[fleabiscuit]

10. Maybe....

"One difference is that modern social democrats are mainly concerned with practical reforms to capitalism whereas democratic socialists ultimately want to go beyond mere meliorist reforms and advocate systemic transformation of the mode of production from capitalism to socialism."

[FoxNewsSucks]

12. That's one good definition,

but I don't know of any currently-running American politician who advocates for government ownership of any industry. Do you?

[fleabiscuit]

32. Such as Medicare for all? It will turn into "They're going to take your healthcare away!"

Most people are not as engaged as the people here. In politics the belief is the reality for voters. If one has to explain the difference it's a losing position.

[FoxNewsSucks]

35. That is a problem,

but I think it's better to explain to people what it means, than just give up and let republicon scum have their way.

Yes, shouldn't have to, but we do.

[wnylib]

53. Far better not to run at all on a

platform that has to be constantly explained and defended in a year when the outcome of the election is so critical to the survival of the nation as a democracy.

Sanders and his supporters risk gambling away our future.

[trueblue2007]

14. if there is NO DIFFERECE - why does BS call himself a "Democratic Socialist" - why isn't he a DEM ?

[FoxNewsSucks]

23. That's my question.

What is the difference? Can you tell me?

[SergeStorms]

37. Ask Bernie.

He's the person who won't come and and join the Democratic party. He's always the Independent running as a Democrat. There is a difference. He uses the machinery and money from the Democratic party and in return he...............what?

I've never been able to figure that out. What does Bernie give back to Democrats? If there's an answer please let me know, and that's not a facetious question.

[FoxNewsSucks]

38. well, in return he's

caucused and voted with Democrats for decades in the House and Senate.

I'd ask him if he posted here, but as far as I know he doesn't. So my question is for people who do. I'm assuming they know the difference, and should be willing to spell it out for me.

[Hekate]

52. He's your candidate: you are the one to educate us about his quirks, not the other way around.

[MFM008]

62. let me explain this

Despicable me and his minions will run against the entire democratic party as communists or National Socialists like the Nazis...
do not think everyone know the difference, I have one democrat friend who says she wont vote for Sanders or
Warren because she is sure they will take her and her disabled sons healthcare.
No amount of talking from me will change it.
And this is a democrat we need in November.

[calguy]

7. We're not on the verge yet

Super Tuesday will tell us where we are. But yea, if Sanders is allowed to highjack the party we are screwed for the next 20 years. Giving trump fours to complete Putin's mission we may not be able to come back.

[CalFione]

51. In general, Sanders supporters want to burn the Democratic party to the ground

They'd prefer to do that by Bernie winning the general election.

But they'll accept him getting the nomination, losing the general election, and destroying it that way.


I have literally had Bernie fans tell me that they absolutely are NOT "vote blue no matter who", but they are counting on the fact that the rest of the Democratic party *IS* "vote blue no matter who". They consider this their "leverage".

They even were using the "#bendtheknee" hashtag last week in great numbers all over twitter and instagram. If you go to Bernie-centric forums, "bend the knee" is what they are saying all the NON-Bernie Dems will have to do.

It's a massive turnoff to me. They won't drive me to sit the election out if Bernie is the nominee, but it isn't for a lack of trying on their part.

[wnylib]

55. Uf Sanders does manage to win

the primary and the general, he will be a one termer at his age, if he lives through the entire term.

But the damage to the Dems will last longer.

[radius777]

58. #bendtheknee is sorely mistaken as #neverbernie is a thing.

As a man of color, to get rid of Trump I will hold my nose and vote for Sanders if he's the nominee - but I know of several people, including some family and friends, who will 'never vote for that man' who they see as having kneecapped HRC, preventing the first female president. This view is common amongst women of color who viewed HRC as their champion even more than white women did.

Also, all I will do is vote for him, nothing more. If it was any other candidate I would do alot.

[DanTex]

8. I appreciate your optimism but I'd say "on the verge" is overstating Bernie's position.

Yes, right now Bernie is the most likely to win but there’s a long way to go.

[trueblue2007]

15. i sure hope he doesn't. I want Joe or even Mike over BS

[Blues Heron]

9. I think we all appreciate a little socialism in this country

It was founded on communities helping each other, not sickening ruthless sink or swim capitalism. Check out the history of the pilgrims, the shakers, the amish, the chataquas, etc. etc. etc.

So- no. disagree with your post.

[Quixote1818]

11. Bernie Sanders is not a democratic socialist, but a social democrat.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/03/bernie-sanders-democratic-socialism/471630/

His stances are popular. Instead of screaming the sky is falling maybe just try to sell people on these stances which actually sell themselves when people are struggling to get by.

[Zolorp]

71. That's not what Sanders says.

In politics, if you are explaining, you are losing.

[yaesu]

13. oh brother, I thought maybe I stumbled on to a fox news blog or something, maybe a rush love in

[Hekate]

54. It's a helluva thread, isn't it?

Why don't we just hang ourselves now?

[jaysunb]

16. The Republicans are drooling over the posibility of a Sanders nomination. Nt

[DanieRains]

17. Let's Nominate A Former Walmart Board Member!

Oops.

I"m supposed to forget the past.

Nevermind.

[betsuni]

47. Is this about Hillary? She tried to improve the role of women in management and environmentalism.

Why do you think that's bad?

"'Did Hillary like all of Wal-Mart's practices? No,' said Garry Mauro, a longtime friend who sat on the Wal-Mart Environmental Advisory Board with Mrs. Clinton in the late 1980s ... . 'But,' Mauro added, 'was Wal-Mart a better company, with better practices, because Hillary was on the board? Yes.'

Mr. Walton tells shareholders that they have "'a strong-willed young lady on the board now who has already told the board it should do more to ensure the advancement of women.' ... At her request, Mr. Walton set up the environmental advisory group, which sent a series of recommendations to the company's board. ... Consumers would bring in used motor oil and batteries for recycling. Suppliers would reduce the size of their packaging. And Wal-Mart would build stores with energy-saving features. Wal-Mart executives put much of the programs into place. ... In 1993, for example, they opened an experimental eco-store in Kansas. One executive derided it as 'Hillary's store' because it was more expensive to build ... but the skylight that cut energy bills by reducing the need for artificial lighting, were widely copied across the industry."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/20/us/politics/20walmart.html

[Hekate]

57. Thank you. Also, she is NOT RUNNING.

Some people just can't resist casual digs at the woman who won the election's popular vote by a margin of 3 million votes.

[radius777]

59. Ambition and success are 'bad'

unless one is a white man I guess.

[betsuni]

60. They sometimes don't even have to get anything done, just talk about how bad everything is!

[randr]

18. He will eat Bernie alive

Bernie is the candidate he most wants to run against. It will give him the opportunity to demonize all social programs and turn America into the third world country he wants to rule

[onetexan]

19. Well said. A real Dem, not a fake one

[rockfordfile]

34. That would go for Bloomberg correct?

[betsuni]

49. Has Bloomberg ever called Democrats "ideologically bankrupt," corrupt, same as Republicans?

Bernie has for decades.

[thesquanderer]

66. Has Bernie ever endorsed and campaigned for Republicans?

Bloomberg has for decades.

Pretty much everyone has stuff from the past you can throw against them.

Personally, I'd prefer the one who has more often been right on the issues over the past 20+ years, and has more consistently believed what I have believed. Labels are not so important.

[betsuni]

67. Bernie hasn't been consistent.

Same as any other politician.

[thesquanderer]

70. He has been probably 95% consistent in his beliefs and priorities over 40 years.

I don't think that's the "same as any other politician."

And I don't think 100% should even be the goal, because every now and then, one can benefit from being able to learn and change.

But yeah, most of what you see him saying over the last 40 years would be philosophically the same as something he could say today.

[onetexan]

73. No, i meant Sanders. He hinself has said he is not a Democrat

[DanieRains]

21. I'll Take Guaranteed Healthcare For ALL AMERICANS

Paid for by all INCLUDING BILLIONAIRES AND CORPORATIONS.

Affordable medicine.

Best idea I ever heard.

Every other advanced nation can do it?

We are too busy donating to the 1% to stay alive when we get sick.

[Zolorp]

69. Pile dreams

That takes 60 Senators that agree to it.

Not happening.

[question everything]

22. Again, drawing parallels to McGovern 1972

That set the party as “soft” on foreign affairs and we were still in Cold War.

[rockfordfile]

36. Well isn't that a load of laughs. the GOP are the un-American party

[David__77]

25. Ron Dellums and Delores Huerta have been DSA members and Democrats.

There are socialist Democrats, liberal Democrats, and conservative Democrats too.

[JoeOtterbein]

26. Your party?

Huh?

[jcmaine72]

29. Yeah really.

[Cha]

27. KR

[WiffenPoof]

31. As far as I'm concerned ..

FDR was a good example of a Democratic Socialist. Sorry... I've always been an FDR Democrat. Disregard my choice at the bottom...

[blue-wave]

48. I respectfully disagree

about FDR. He implemented programs such as Social Security, yes. But Social security is not a socialist program. It is also not an "entitlement." It is a program that pays for itself and always has payed for itself. Socialism as I understand it, doesn't pay for itself. The BS that Social Security is in financial trouble is exactly that....BS. The financials don't look good because the government, for many decades, has been borrowing from the Social Security Trust Fund and the government does not want to pay back all the borrowed money. It's similar/parallel to what has been done to other retirement plans throughout the country.

FDR saved capitalism all the while he was greatly pressured from the far left of the party and far rightist republicans. The Wall Street crowd chastised him and as he stated in one speech they hated him. But he did save Wall Street from itself by adjusting socialist ideas to fit into an implementation of a well regulated capitalist system.

The regulations are now greatly reduced or nonexistent. And the FDR programs have been under attack for decades. What we need is to get them, both great ideas/programs that will work in our system and a well regulated capitalism, back and/or saved. FDR was great at negotiating and compromise between two competing sides: the working class and Wall Street.

I personally have serious reservations about Bernie because of the lack of compromise I see in his (and some of his followers) professed ideologies, an unbending rigidity.

Joe Biden I feel, is a reasonable and truly caring man and most like FDR. He can right the ship and place our country back on course. This is why I say he is the one...the ONE, for the job.

[jmowreader]

63. Stop for just a second

"The government, for many decades, has been borrowing from the Social Security Trust Fund..."

Reality time: That's what is supposed to happen. Social Security has two sources of income. The first is payroll deductions, which we all know about. The other is interest on loans the Trust Fund makes to other government agencies.

At the top of the list of Stupid Shit Republicans Say is the classic line, "Government needs to run like a business." There are several parts of the government that are designed to run like a business. The GOP wants to shut all of them down.

[WiffenPoof]

65. I understand... However...

I agree with much of what you are saying. However, here are a few observations.

The Republicans have been fighting against FDR's policies forever because they consider them to be socialist.

Didn't Bernie State in one of his speeches that " we will save Capitalism from itself."

I would draw your attention to FDR's Second Bill Of Rights that he wanted to implement but did not live to have them considered.

I do not see Brrnie's policies as socialist as you might. I see an effort to strengthen regulations to be more fair to the middle class.

I am a big Joe Biden fan and have been for a long time. I know it sounds contradictory to support both Biden and Sanders. However, it might just lend further support to the idea that I do not consider Bernie as far to the Left as most do.

[SunSeeker]

39. That's why I am not voting for Sanders. nt

[tirebiter]

40. Not according to FDR

Last edited Mon Feb 17, 2020, 03:15 AM - Edit history (1)

If FDR WAS socialist we would have been in the Spanish Civil War. People could go as volunteers for either side but we’re not allowed to serve in the regular army in WWII if they had. A couple fighter pilots and that was it. There was no socialism that didn’t include Moscow at the time.

What FDR Understood About Socialism That Today’s Democrats Don’t



...In the four years just past, Roosevelt had transformed the purpose of the United States government, making it a constant companion in the lives of Americans. The Social Security Act of the previous year was merely the crowning achievement. Roosevelt’s initiatives, meant to curb the misery brought on by the Great Depression, directly funded millions of government jobs, employing everyone from photographers to brush-clearing conservation workers. To pay for this, he raised the income tax—which hadn’t even existed two decades earlier—to 75 percent on the highest incomes. The rich were subsidizing the poor, and that was A-OK with FDR.

The giant crowd bristled with excitement to hear their hero defend these policies. What followed was his so-called “Rendezvous with Destiny” speech, which historians rank among the greatest of his career, a tall order from the man whose oratorical roster included “nothing to fear but fear itself,” and “a day that will live in infamy.” But while those speeches perfectly captured individual moments, Roosevelt’s “Rendezvous with Destiny” speech came far closer to revealing his inner theories and motivations: Never before or after would he lay out his vision in greater clarity.

That vision included one truly insistent message: He was not a socialist.

Though he never used the term socialism in his speech, Roosevelt’s anger at those who accused him of ideological motivations, of applying an economic theory that was anathema to the United States, exploded from the lectern. In line after line, the fiery president defended his actions as pragmatic responses to the real, glaring needs of a changing society. The rich who criticized him, who cloaked their greed in an affinity for capitalism, were dangerously missing his point. He knew the ideological threats of communism and of fascism were real, and were overtaking democracy in European countries. An etched-in-stone commitment to the status quo would be an invitation to extremists everywhere. By fulfilling the government’s obligation to assist its people, he was instilling confidence in the American system. He was vindicating the Founding Fathers.

Now, in a time of far less suffering and little sense of economic crisis, some Democrats are embracing the very title that Roosevelt shunned. It is, in their eyes, truth in packaging. Their proposals sound much like Roosevelt’s: using the power of the federal government to create a fairer society, in which essential services are subsidized by higher taxes on the wealthy. But unlike FDR, they say that, yes, these programs amount to socialism. The Republicans who inveigh against them aren’t misstating their intentions, as Roosevelt claimed. The GOP may be dead wrong to demonize them—to turn a benignly descriptive word like socialism into a scare word—but, yeah, they’re socialists in pursuit of a socialist platform.


https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/08/16/democrats-socialism-fdr-roosevelt-227622

[Kablooie]

41. It could motivate anti-Trump Republicans to get out and vote for Trump.

When otherwise they would just sit home and not vote.

[Quixote1818]

42. Or the 4 million Obama voters who stayed home in 2016 could come back out again

This video by the Atlantic is pretty interesting. Put out before the 2016 election he talks about the prospect of young Obama voters staying home if Sanders doesn't get the nomination because Hillary didn't excite them.

[Kablooie]

43. Yeah. Could go either way so I remain undecided.

[Quixote1818]

56. I don't think anyone truly knows what is going to happen with Sanders.

My gut goes back and forth. He could either win big with a lot of excited folks wanting the stuff he is promising and Joe Rogan types coming out. Squeak by if it ends up like the last few elections as each side just digs in, or get clobbered if people freak out about him embracing the words Democratic Socialist. I just don't know.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

45. Let it play out.

A lot can happen.

1) Whoever we nominate will be labeled a socialist - even if it's Mike Bloomberg
2) Biden is not exciting young voters. Sanders is. He speaks to their concerns. A lot of Trump. I submit that's not how this works - voters want their needs addressed.
3) I don't think Bloomberg is exciting young voters either. I think the strategy he is employing is to buy enough advertising to swipe the middle from Biden, Amy, and Mayor Pete.
4) Warren could be a really interesting factor down the line. She is widely perceived as left-of-center, but in many ways bridges the left and center wings of the party. I still say she should reach out to Biden and ask him to step aside and join her ticket as Veep. That could be formidable.

Lets see how Super Tuesday plays out.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

46. Wow. One caucus. One primary.

And our nominee is selected. Wheeee! I don't have to pay any more attention, just show up and vote in November. So glad this is all settled.

[blakstoneranger]

50. DO YOU WANT TRUMP OUT OR NOT!!!

It's the media. The media is responsible for the rise in bernie sanders. They are suppressing the democratic vote by dredging up negative stories about every candidate who takes the top spot. By the time the DNC rolls around Bernie will get the nomination. After that many democrats won't vote. This is what trump wants. This is how trump will beat us. The media is using racial issues that happened long ago to scare black people away from the candidates, they're using taxes to scare the middle class. They started with kamala harris, then biden, butigege, bloomberg, and on and on until we end up with bernie. Now the media is highlighting Bernie's desire to "give away" benefits to everybody---this means higher taxes--this scares people--and the media knows it. The media is also confusing us constantly asking bernie "are you a socialist?" As long as the media keeps highlighting "Socialist", the american people won't care that he is a "democratic socialist" They don't care about the difference (and trump doesn't either). Bernie scares the independent voters and trump knows it. People will get confused and frustrated and will give up and not vote! This will allow trump to walk right back in with a republican win. You don't see trump digging up dirt on bernie, why? Because trump aint scared of him. TRUMP IS NOT A GOOD PRESIDENT AND DOES NOT REPRESENT THE BEST OF WHO WE ARE IN THIS COUNTRY.

WHOEVER GETS THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINATION WILL GET MY VOTE ON ELECTION DAY---I CAN TOLERATE BERNIE FOR FOUR YEARS, I CAN'T TOLERATE TRUMP!!

[jamezwithaz]

61. No one would accuse DU members...

...of having their finger on the pulse of the current Democratic party, but wow, I didn't realize how out of touch many here seem to be.

If the party nominates Sanders, it is because of the issues he is speaking to are resonating within the party. Why these issues like M4A are not resonating with you, I could only guess at. Maybe you are too comfortable, established, or set in your ways. Perhaps you think that what we have is the best we could hope for. Well, WE think you are wrong.

Whether Sanders calls himself an Independent, Democrat or Democratic Socialist is immaterial. The conviction of his beliefs, his will to fight for them and, most importantly, the hope he inspires for a better future is what truly matters.

I'm not afraid of Democratic Socialism and apparently neither is the party at large. So that just leaves you and those too scared to demand better because we deserve better, content to nimble around the edges hoping those at the top will toss you a crumb for being good little boys and girls.

[Sherman A1]

64. Yeah, okay

[Zolorp]

68. All it ever took to completely destroy nearly two centuries of two party rule in the US...

Two populists, one from each party.

The ensuing chaos could be truly dystopian.

[Tarc]

72. Sun Jul 7, 2019, 07:49 PM