With all due respect to Jon Oliver who dedicated his whole show to Medicare for All

[question everything]

-
available on the Video Forum -

You cannot have anything one size fits all. Not in health care, not in economy, not in the arts, not in education. Yes, Communists countries tried and failed.

Yes, we know that our current system is lacking. And, frankly, I think that the ACA, with appropriate improvement can and should solve the problems.

But many of us like the system as is. Why should we be forced to abandon it for an unproven idea? And just a reminder: a "revolution," any revolution can be bloody (well, figuratively..). It will sacrifice many good people and systems for the sake of the revolution. Think the French, the Bolshevik, the Chines and many others. Revolutionists concede that there would be collateral damage. Is this what we want?

And about Medicare. I was happy with the one I had that included supplemental one for Part B, but then Medicare decided that my plan "cost" could no longer be offered in my city and I had to switch to "advantage." But the new one did not include my primary physician, at a 3 mile drive, so I had to switch to another carrier.

And... has anyone heard about how social programs take the major part of the budget? Trump already proposes "changes" in his new budget that, no doubt, is DOA, especially in an election year. But can Sanders or others guarantee that the Medicare for All that they love so much will stay as they propose under future administrations?

And, really, it does not matter what many here think. We, Americans, like to have our way, our decisions. Sure, many liked slavery, many still like discrimination but, hey, in my city many still object to one trash hauler for all. So can anyone really think that the majority of the voters would accept dropping their current coverage for an unknown? Where is that offer about selling a bridge?

[HerbChestnut]

1. Hoo boy, that OP is dripping with RW talking points.

[AtheistCrusader]

3. Well, you see, it's just too hard, and it sounds scary, so let's go back to sleep.

[awesomerwb1]

27. Why so defensive?

Perhaps you could address the OP's personal concerns? I doubt you can. You know why? Because Sanders doesn't even know how this thing would work and how much it would cost.

[womanofthehills]

64. So most every other country in the World can have healthcare for all, except US

You are saying it should not be a human right in the US because our country refuses to tax the rich or cut back on all the military industrial spending.

[MoonlitKnight]

28. Those talking points are deeply ingrained

Over $100 billion in profits each year buys a lot of misinformation.

Plus the “I like what I have, why should I have to change?”

Let us know how you like your plan if you get cancer. Or a mental illness. How about a back problem. Diabetes. Chances are good that the person who likes their insurance hasn’t really had to use it. And they also probably don’t pay attention to the hidden costs of it.

But hey, if you are doing ok why should you care about anyone else. And who cares if we waste half a trillion dollars every year just by keeping what you think works ok.

[question everything]

38. As a cancer survivor I am alive today thanks to my health insurance and the pharmaceutical companies

[MoonlitKnight]

40. And the poor people who died taking the drug trials for the pharmaceutical companies

Because they had advanced cancer due to lack of insurance and were eligible for those trials.

[question everything]

42. Unless you can prove it you should go to the fiction section

[MoonlitKnight]

44. I lived it

It’s not fiction that happened to my mother.
It’s not fiction that I worked as a case manager helping get people on Medicaid and Medicare.

I too am a cancer survivor.

[AtheistCrusader]

2. Happily, since we are not innovating in this space, we can look around the world and find a template

that already works.

(I like Germany)

[question everything]

4. And in many of these systems many can choose private plans

But really, we cannot even copy Sanders' beloved Scandinavia.

This country with about 350 million people with divers background and occupations, and trade - we just cannot. The fact is, we have to have our own systems.

[HerbChestnut]

5. Yep, we can't have single payer healthcare because people of color live here.

Oh and some have jobs. Makes sense.

[AtheistCrusader]

6. I am not seeing a material reason why 'we just cannot'.

Yes, allowing supplemental private insurance is crucial. Not having it sucked for Canada.

Again, we're not innovators in this space, and we do not need to be. This road has already been plowed for us.

[question everything]

10. And there you have it. Sanders does want to do away with supplemental plans

[AtheistCrusader]

12. That's neat, we have a president, not a king.

What a president asks for, the Congress does not have to deliver exactly as it was asked for or face the stockade.

[MoonlitKnight]

30. Sanders isn't the only one advocating a plan

[HerbChestnut]

37. No he doesn't.

Private insurers are free to offer supplemental plans that do not offer services overlapping with those covered under M4A, which makes sense because you don't want people paying for the same thing twice.

[womanofthehills]

65. Maybe, just maybe Sanders thinks healthcare is a human right

Nice you have a good plan, but many can lose their jobs and their wonderful plan just like that.

[CTyankee]

7. I agree, but that doesn not mean we can't adapt an existing system to our needs.

What is wrong with that?

[Bettie]

24. Actually, that kind of thing

scales. More people in the system, more people paying into it.

I don't even get why background and occupation make a difference. Last I checked hospitals and doctors treat people, not occupations. That argument doesn't even make sense.

[oldsoftie]

22. So do you also like the way they PAY for it?

because while our current candidates long to replicate their healthcare systems, they refuse to consider paying for it the same way
Instead, they just promise to make the "rich" pay, even though it would never be nearly enough.

[AtheistCrusader]

25. I do. Cost and ROI are critical considerations.

[oldsoftie]

29. The pass it along to the candidates. And i appreciate your answer

Every time i bring up a VAT here I get slammed about "not caring about the poor". Well, there are poor people in these other countries as well & i dont see them protesting the VAT. It works. And here it would finally tax the HUGE amount of untaxed income, much of it HIGH income.
Also, the income tax system "over there" exempts only a small portion of income, where here nearly 1/2 of taxpayers pay NO income tax. And our candidates are promising to exempt even MORE from paying into the system.

[AtheistCrusader]

34. It's difficult to calculate how much, ultimately they will save but it's always been considerable.

For low and middle-income earners, generally they save money under several of the proposed plans.

And without health care costs suppressing people, there will be fewer poor people, period. (As opposed to republican plans where there are fewer poor people because the sick just die.) Almost 60% of bankruptcies are medical-cost-related. Co-pays and out of pocket expenses chip away at the poor.

[oldsoftie]

47. I agree. But we've got to be honest about how to pay & its going to require EVERYONE. nt

[Frasier Balzov]

8. The Public Option is a compromise course.

Medicare open to all who want a widely accepted policy with the most coverage at the lowest price.

It's not universal health and not free to the patient. But it's a bridge in that direction.

[question everything]

18. Agree. And this is what the other candidates should emphasize

[MoonlitKnight]

31. It's not a bridge

Maybe a pier.

The weakness is the skewed risk pool. It’s the weakness of Medicare today. By limiting to the elderly and disabled it has already been at a disadvantage. By going half assed you just make that pool riskier and reduce the risk for private insurance. How much faith do you have in the private insurers passing that savings down to you? And even if they did it would essentially be taking that from Medicare.

Healthcare reform is complex. The ACA has several pieces that may seem unrelated but can cause it to no longer work. Like the individual mandate that the Republicans removed.

You have to assemble all of the pieces like risk pool, universal coverage, administrative overhead, negotiation leverage, and cost.

[Frasier Balzov]

39. Medicaid already bears the adverse risk pool burden.

The Public Option I'm thinking of is Medicare with premium subsidy.

Means-tested Medicare essentially. And Medicaid can go away entirely as a stigmatizing brand.

[MoonlitKnight]

43. The problem with that is it does not cover a lot of people until they already have advanced illnesse

It’s reactive rather than proactive.

Lots of people still die under that plan.

[Frasier Balzov]

45. Why should care be deferred?

Medicare covers preventative care. CMS encourages you to get regular check-ups so problems are detected early and given treatment.

Anyone choosing the Public Option is a Medicare patient.

[uponit7771]

56. If its an option then can't people opt to get into the Public Option? Why would it be defered until

... people are broke?

thx in advance

[CalFione]

9. John Oliver thinks Jeremy Corbyn style socialism can win in the U.S.

It couldn't even win in more-liberal U.K.

[question everything]

13. Welcome to DU, CalFrione

Love your attitude.

[floppyboo]

16. Meanwhile, last week, the socialist won Ireland.

Corbyn had the whole Zionist movement against him. That, plus his flip flopping on Brexit cost him.

[question everything]

17. Oh, good. When all else fail, bring the "Zionists" into the picture

Just curious, why respond to my welcoming post to CalFione?

Having problem with... never mind.

[oldsoftie]

23. There it is, everyone, its the JEWS! When all else fails...........

[floppyboo]

32. Oh come one. It was widely reported. Not a theory. Just the facts.

Being offended in this case is bullocks

[oldsoftie]

48. Regular people will vote against someone who goes along with anti-Jewish nonsense.

He made the mistake many others do; falling all over himself to blame Israel for all the ills of the palestinians.
He lost by a MILE; you cant blame that on the Jews.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/24/jeremy-corbyn-antisemitism-labour-zionists-2013-speech

[floppyboo]

49. And informed people know that anti-Jewish has eff all to do with anti-Zionism

This conflation of very different aims is being exposed the world over. Look at the latest UN votes. 138 in favour to 9 against.
You can't rely on Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia (Federated States of), Nauru, Panama, Palau, as your fearless allies forever.

[oldsoftie]

50. The same UN who puts countries like Sudan on the human rights council. HA.

Along with venezuela.
The UN is a paper tiger without the US anyway.

[Mosby]

71. That's ridiculous.

Anti-Zionism denies Jews the right to live in their homeland.

How is that not antisemitic?

[grossproffit]

59. Ah, blaming the Jews. How very progressive of you. Jeremy Corbyn is POS. Thank God he lost.

[grossproffit]

70. Ireland Newly elected Sinn Fein parliamentarian apologizes for antisemitic Tweets

https://www.democraticunderground.com/12237882

[Codeine]

11. That's a ridiculous post.

There aren’t that many straw men in all of Kansas. Jeezus.

[floppyboo]

14. Revolutions that led to universal health care - Winnipeg General Strike

Tommy Douglas, leader of the CCF (later the NDP) workers party got health care out of this political action strike.
I believe the Chicago HayMarket strike was around the same time. Brutally suppressed by Pinkerton men.
I think it depends on the timing, and I think unless MFA happens nowish, it will be too late. Trump will bring in martial law against any popular uprisings.

[DanTex]

15. LOL. "Communist countries" like Canada? Really?

[YOHABLO]

19. He asks "is that what we want" No, that's what you obviously want.

I'm snoozing on this one.

[IronLionZion]

20. Most M4A opponents seem to be on Medicare

they just don't want younger people with less income to have it

[Voltaire2]

35. Or they apparently have fabulous employer

Based insurance that covers everything cost nothing, has zero out of pocket expenses, and no ‘network’ restrictions.

[IronLionZion]

46. Sounds pretty fabulous for them

it would be nice if more people could have the same

[emmaverybo]

21. We have three systems currently we can invest in to improve. We know they do work, but can

work better for more people. For now, we will have to up our investment in them. But the cost would be bearable.

Expand Medicaid.
Subsidize older adults without the means to close the gap in Medicare coverage
Stop the gutting of ACA, restore in full, and bring down premiums

Offer a public option

Cover those who fall between the cracks

Get in power first. Build consensus. Rely on and build on existing infrastructure until a universal
healthcare program can be passed. The way to that might or might not be M4All as currently proposed. Bring down the cost of drugs.

[MoonlitKnight]

33. Just to have Republicans change it again

And how many more people have to die needlessly for this incrementalism?

I think our minimum target should be lowering the age of eligibility for Medicare. With a goal to have everyone on it. Instead of crapping on MFA as “communist” (not referring to your post).

Just like preexisting condition coverage is now widely supported, with more people on Medicare it will become more popular.

[emmaverybo]

51. That's possible. Mainly, for now, a bit of flexibility on keeping private insurance will help

progressive candidates and my understanding is that is Warren’s stance. She intends to transition to M4All over her first term.

[Fiendish Thingy]

26. Many are being sacrificed RIGHT NOW to sustain the current system

Those who insist on keeping the current system, out of fear or just selfishness, are supporting a system that denies millions healthcare, bankrupting them and shortening their lives.

Dozens of other countries have figured out universal healthcare and most are thriving.

[Voltaire2]

36. We can't afford to keep the system we have.

Everyone with any clue knows that what we have is unsustainable. Patching it up ain’t going to fix what’s broken.

[Demsrule86]

41. We are not getting M4A-AOC acknowledged it...there is not enough support in Congress...a public

option is what we need....and to repair the damage done by the GOP.

[Scurrilous]

52. Didn't someone tell him its been conceded that M4A doesn't have the votes and is now aspirational?

Are we debating an aspiration now? Sounds dumb.

Yo..look here y'all.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[choie]

53. "And... has anyone heard about how social programs take the major part of the budget? "

Wow - we're always hearing about how we're the richest nation in the world. You're telling us that we don't have enough money to pay for all the social programs that we need? That's crap - it's a matter of will, not money.

[Kurt V.]

54. i submit that hardly anyone likes their insurance when they have to use it. We've been engineered

to believe it bc its all we know.

[question everything]

55. As I posted above, as a cancer survivor I am alive thanks to some expensive treatments

that my then individual policy covered all. This was before I was eligible to enroll in Medicare.

[Kurt V.]

58. I'm a cancer survivor also.

[Gothmog]

57. I was not impressed with Oliver's treatment of this issue

It was simplistic and misleading

[kcr]

60. "You cannot have anything one size fits all"

Really? So, I guess Social Security is right out, then. Funny you mention education. There goes our public school system, with every single child having the right to access it. Then there's our legal system with its courts. I mean, can't go a day without hearing of the massive uprising that choice demanding Americans are mounting against these institutions being shoved down their throats.

[Beartracks]

61. I thought the same thing. All my docs are "in network"...

... because there's no network for them to be "out" of?

I still get to see my doctors, go to my local clinics and hospitals, choose my pharmacy, and there are no out of pocket costs?

Seriously: is this the "size" that supposedly wouldn't fit some mythical portion of the population?

======

[question everything]

63. In the unlikedly event that Sanders win, you can kiss your doctors goodbye

Many may opt to offer services a-la cart. Get a "subscription" to see them for a fixed amount and get the government out of it.

[kcr]

69. They're already doing that.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/russalanprince/2018/08/01/the-rise-of-concierge-medical-practices/#2b7089214e87

https://www.heraldtribune.com/news/20170613/rarefied-care-concierge-medicine-evolves-into-vip-service-for-impatient-patients

http://www.jhconline.com/concierge-medicine-proceed-with-caution.html

[question everything]

62. Special education. Public defender

But, hey, why not say that everyone uses exactly the same services?

Even Social Security - we all get different benefits each month. Maybe someday you will get yours and see for yourself.

By the way, where does Warren stand now about Medicare for all? If today it is Thursday does it mean she is against it? But yesterday, Wednesday she was for it?

[kcr]

68. Special education? Public defender? Those prove my point. Not yours.

Everyone has access. No one is left out. Unlike our current healthcare system. And, yes. I will get those benefits someday. That would be the point.

As to your cute and clever comments at the end of your post. It's clear you aren't aware that many of the candidates in the current race at some point supported a form of universal healthcare.

[Tweedy]

66. social security persists

Because we, the people, want it to do so

Medicare persists for the same reason.

The only guarantee we have about the staying power of any of these United States is ourselves.

Senator Warren has a transition period, which is necessary anyway*, to work out the kinks of a payment change like this.

So, if folks hate it, it would disappear.

Folks will not hate it. It will join the other great American systems. Yes, someday some astroturpher will bear a sign (or hologram?) reading "KEEP THE GOVERNMENT'S HANDS OFF MY MEDICARE FOR ALL!"

* Sorry Bernie folks. Just try walking into a doctor's office should Bernie's bill pass. You won't get treated unless you have the passkey ($, insurance or medicaid) for quite some time.

[cynatnite]

67. There are problems with Medicare For All that does not get discussed at all...

Such as can our healthcare system as it is hold up under this as it is? Will they get enough of a financial return from the government to sustain themselves? Will there be enough healthcare workers, hospitals, private practice and more? Will there even be enough medications to go around?

What happens to those working in the health insurance industry? That's nearly 2 million people who could find themselves without jobs.

I'm not saying the system we have now is great. It's not. There are problems that's never been addressed. IMO, Obamacare needs to be improved upon with a public option that offers better and more comprehensive coverage. The pharma industry needs dealt with and so on.

I spent a lot of years in healthcare on both sides as a caregiver and as a transcriptionist and coder. Even before Obamacare our workload was intense and we could barely keep up. We always worried about things slipping between the cracks, not getting done because of it.

The other thing is people need to face facts that this will never pass. Obamacare barely passed. There are Dems who would not support it.

This is a pipe dream, a fantasy that's being sold as if it's THE answer to all the healthcare problems we face.