'Establishment Dems' is a divisive term and shouldn't be used by those who claim they want unity.

[NurseJackie]

'Establishment Dems' is a divisive term and shouldn't be used by those who claim they want unity. Accusing the Democratic party of being "corrupt," and suggesting that the system is "rigged," and denigrating insults about the party being an "absolute failure" is rhetoric that shouldn't be used by those who claim to want unity.

Actually, this doesn't even need further explanation. It's pretty much self explanatory.

[msongs]

1. especially galling from someone who is a rent-a-dem only at primary time nt

[fleabiscuit]

4. 10-4; That's going to leave a mark. nt

[Cha]

114. ..

Scorch!

[fleabiscuit]

118. ..

[Cha]

119. Aloha, flea..

[krissey]

5. The obvious. What I do not get is the supporters that do not get it. It is obvious to me.

It is like the guest in the home that walks all over people then says, but treat me special, I am a guest.

[Roy Rolling]

46. Most people get it

But judging by comments, there’s some who benefit by an oversized and vigorous defense in order, I assume, to put Bernie Sanders in his place.

Those comments are equally offensive.

Bernie won’t withdraw his statements on this post, but Democrats who mistakenly responded with offensive, in-kind comments can. Do the right thing.

[George II]

62. More like the person who shows up to a party he's not invited to, eats and drinks more....

...than anyone else, complains the food is cold and the drinks are warm, then is the last one to leave.

[krissey]

64. And double dips so he can have it all to himself.

I knew mine wasn't on par George. I was hoping someone creative would have a better one. Yes, like that. Thank you

[George II]

66. .

[George II]

82. Found it:

[krissey]

98. That is a fun one.

Shrinkage is another of my favs.

[dalton99a]

92. And tries to burn down the place

after insulting everyone

[krissey]

112. Then blames the house for inhaling smoke, lol

[Progressive dog]

110. The supporters get it,

they just don't care. IMO.

[krissey]

111. Probably.

[Mike 03]

8. "rent-a-dem"

That's a beaut.

[HopeAgain]

49. Is somebody who endorsed GWB also a rent-a-dem?

Asking for a friend...

[George II]

71. Bloomberg has been a Democrat for more than 40 years longer than your candidate.

[HopeAgain]

72. My candidate never endorsed Bush over Kerry

...just sayin'.

Edit: Bloomberg was a lifelong Democrat until 2001, when he switched to the Republican Party before running for Mayor. He switched to an independent in 2007, and registered again as a Democrat in October 2018.

Solid democrat you got there.

[George II]

79. "Your candidate" has done a lot worse.

[HopeAgain]

80. Like a program designed to harass young black men?

Somebody who implemented "Stop and Frisk"... that's who the Democrats want now?

[tishaLA]

93. or proudly voted for a bill that disproportionately imprisoned

young black (and brown) men, as the 1994 crime bill did? And couldn't be bothered to know, after several decades in office, that those black and brown men rot in jail because they couldn't afford bail

[emmaverybo]

103. This crime bill, which stipulated disproportionate sentences for the form of a drug, leading to

sentencing inequality at the federal level, should be disavowed and has been. The unintended consequences of an attempt to stem a crack cocaine crime wave was exactly as you tell it. Those consequences along with the failure of three strikes did not all unfold in real time and at the time of their enactment had strong support from communities affected by drug crimes.

I think most of can agree that aspects of the drug war, of which the crime bill was a part, has ruined lives on both sides of the law and not achieved their purported goals.

We should not however lay the mass incarceration state laws led to at the feet of the 1994 crime bill, nor was it the intent to criminalize by race. On the other hand, this is what happened.

What has not been disavowed are several good crime-fighting ideas for which a great deal of money was allocated—assault rifle ban, community policing, Violence against Women Act, drug deterrence courts, gang and crime prevention. None of those involved with promoting the 1994 crime bill should disavow those parts of it that did aim to deal sensibly and humanely with crime, balancing the protection of society with civil liberties.

By the same token, none should seek to justify disproportionate sentencing with stereotyping and
race-based attitudes to the administration of justice. I don’t believe the architects of the 1994 crime bill or its supporters have done so.

[TreasonousBastard]

10. "Rent-a-Dem"!!!

[HopeAgain]

107. Referring to

Democrat-Independent-Republican-Democrat again rent the party of the day Bloomberg?

[Cha]

115. NO.. this one..

Sanders: "I don't consider myself a Democrat" From 2017..

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287420249#top

[redstatebluegirl]

19. Kind of like that one.

[Progressive dog]

109. I agree

[NurseJackie]

120. Yikes! So true!

[HarlanPepper]

2. +1000000

[dware]

3. This is exactly why you're one of my favorite members NurseJackie.

[NurseJackie]

6. ...

[Quixote1818]

7. Sounds like a plan. Lets then all stop using "Establishment Dems" and "Bernie Bros" then on DU.

Agreed?

[NurseJackie]

11. Take it up with Bernie (and Sirota, and Nina, and Briahna...

Take it up with Bernie (and Sirota, and Nina, and Briahna, and Moore, and West, and Sarandon, and Cusack, and Orfalea). You know as well as anyone that shit like that emanates from the top of the pyramid. It doesn't simply happen in a vacuum and it doesn't happen without the top-dog knowing that it's happening and without knowing who and what's being said and on his behalf.

Actually, the entire tone was set by Bernie himself when he hired his virulently toxic anti-Dem campaign staff/team. It was quite a slap in the face to us "Establishment Democrats" to see that he'd hired full-on Jill Stein loving/supporting/voting hacks. What kind of message do you think THAT sends? It wasn't by accident. That was a "plan" as well.

Agreed?

[Vivienne235729]

13. +1000

[showblue22]

20. Very well said.

Unity is not their goal, that's obvious.

[Quixote1818]

31. I am talking about here. We can rise above it all here can't we? nt

[NurseJackie]

37. This website with its anonymous posters is FAR LESS INFLUENTIAL than you may imagine.

I am talking about here. We can rise above it all here can't we?

This website with its anonymous posters is FAR LESS INFLUENTIAL than you may imagine. I mean, it's great fun... and clearly the admins put in a lot of work and time and effort. --- But I think we can both agree that the bickering that goes on here in our little tidal pool cannot in any way compare to the nonstop torrent of LIES and SMEARS about Democrats and the Democratic party that are being spewed forth by very high-profile people. You know who perfectly well who I'm talking about and what I'm talking about. Do not try to pretend that the petty insults and arguments here are in ANY way comparable to the REAL and TRUE and LONG LASTING damage that's being done by others who should know better.

Why focus on the small pond? Why think small? Why not call-out the problem for what it is? Why pretend that it doesn't exist? Why ignore its origins? What good purpose does it do to look the other way and try to blame others? --- Think about it.

[totodeinhere]

50. I agree that DU has very little influence in the broad scheme of things. I think you

are correct. Therefore, given that reality why shouldn't we just say what we want to? How can something I say at this website become divisive given that we have such a small amount of influence?

[Farmer-Rick]

53. And using the insult BS ers should also be added to the list.

[Cha]

116. Talk to Sirota, BJG, and Turner

[Codeine]

9. I'm amazed that they believe

that the selection of a party’s presidential candidate wouldn’t involve the established and respected members of that party. Can somebody actually be that naive, or is it all theater?

[UniteFightBack]

12. One question...WHO wold NANCY PELOSI vote for??? nt

[greenjar_01]

14. Heyoooo!

[DanTex]

15. "Establishment Dems" is not a pejorative, it is a term widely used by commentators of all stripes.

For example, the AP: "One thing unites establishment Democrats: Fear of Sanders"
https://apnews.com/4788e8a658d7934e38a389746a7c58c5

The AP isn't insulting or demeaning anyone, or implying they are corrupt, they are using the term appropriately to describe the group of established politicians and bureaucrats who generally call the shots in the Democratic Party. The term "establishment" is used in the same way in many different realms. For example, there is a "scientific establishment", which consists of big-named professors and people in the American Academy of Sciences and so on. There is also a "media establishment" and a "business establishment" and a "medical establishment" and a "classical music establishment" and a "cycling establishment" etc.

[NurseJackie]

16. LOL!

[DanTex]

17. True dat!

[betsuni]

59. Perfect.

[gollygee]

23. Fear of Sanders sending the next four years to trump and McConnell. nt

[Quixote1818]

35. Of course they are completely different and they all know it's a false equivalence. nt

[fleabiscuit]

18. Speaking of "Establishment Dems" it may be time to look at the "in-house" rankings again...

It gave me a smile...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=candidates

[OnDoutside]

21. Surely if they wanted to distinguish them from themselves, Dems would be enough ?

[LanternWaste]

22. Not merely divisive. Self-righteous and divisive.

And as it seems, most often used by the same people who pretend oppression when 'Bernie Bro' is used in the precise same manner.

Without having read the thread responses, I'm guessing more than a few will rationalize it as benign as they themselves rail with fists in the air against the injustice of using 'Bernie Bro' in kind.

[Voltaire2]

24. Bernie bro's, far left, etc all just fine.

Let me know when the incessant divisive attacks on Sanders have stopped.

[NurseJackie]

26. Instead, let ME know when the incessant divisive attacks on the Democratic Party have stopped.

Let me know when the incessant divisive attacks on Sanders have stopped.

Instead, let ME know when the incessant divisive attacks on the Democratic Party have stopped.

It's NOT TRUE that Democrats are "ideologically bankrupt". It's NOT TRUE that the Democratic party is "intellectually bankrupt". It's NOT TRUE that Democrats are "feeble". It's NOT TRUE that Democrats are "corrupt". It's not true that the primary is "rigged". It's NOT TRUE that the Democratic party is an "absolute failure". It's NOT TRUE that the Democratic party is "the party of the one-percent". It's NOT TRUE that the Democratic party is the "party of the elite". It's NOT TRUE that there's "no difference between Democrats and Republicans." It's NOT TRUE that Democrats are "do-nothings". It's NOT TRUE that the Democratic party "doesn't care about climate change." It's NOT TRUE that the Democrats "focus too much" on diversity. It's also NOT TRUE that people who the refuse to vote for an African-American because of his skin color "aren't racists". It's also NOT TRUE that the Democrats who "are very big into diversity" aren't "particularly sympathetic" to the working class.

All I'm saying is that these kinds of smears and attacks and lies only serve to weaken the party. Negativity generates apathy. Apathy discourages voter turnout. Low voter turnout gives Republicans a chance to steal the elections.

[Voltaire2]

27. So you want a unilateral cease fire.

Got it.

[NurseJackie]

29. Oh, honey! Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!

[TheFarseer]

54. I love how all your comebacks

are a laughing gif. No substance except on rare cases where you insist your opinion is an absolute fact.

[NurseJackie]

75. Awww... Thank you! Aren't you sweet?

[hangaleft]

85. I have the same reaction

+1

[treestar]

84. You're practically admitting that Bernie

is Bernie vs. Democrats. Attacks on Bernie and Biden both take place and are said to be vetting. But Biden doesn't attack the Democratic party by saying the types of things Nurse Jackie set forth there. Bernie vs. Biden is fine, but Bernie vs. the Democratic Party is a different and more divisive thing.

[Voltaire2]

86. Bernie vs. Establishment Democrats.

There I fixed it for you. That is one of the pillars of the campaign: to take the party back from its centrist establishment leaders.

[treestar]

87. You're admitting you don't want to work with

even other Democrats, just because they aren't exactly the same. "Take the party" back from them, then where are they to go?

[Voltaire2]

89. You keep making arguments for me I haven't made.

They can do the same thing those of us on the left do every election cycle: suck it up and work together to win the election. Or not.

[treestar]

70. Are you actually going to get into "who started it?"

OK let's argue about that.

[Voltaire2]

78. I didn't say anything about who started it.

I am just wondering if the incessant attacks against Sanders should also stop.

And I got my answer: "no".

[DaDeacon]

83. The cynasim that many of the post project here

Worries me more than a little bit. It's odd that a post for unity only takes a few post for individuals who claim to be put off by decisiveness joined in to taking shots at the other guy. I don't shake at being called names but how do you all think we will come together in the general if you make it personal after two states?!?!
I don't like the idea of the candidate being called unelectable after doing well early but it is what it is. Sticks and stones I guess. I wondered how the other party to glee in becoming spiteful and angry. I didn't understand how many people overwhelmingly adopted a sprint of distrust but I can see how it starts. I dont mind being called radical. I believe we are in dire times and we need to do more than move a little to the left. The country has been so far to the right that previously Republican talking points are used with regularity in Democratic spaces and many people are ok with it. Bloomberg gave an endorsement of GWB during the Iraq war and many are willing to support him because he's slinging dirt on "shameless one"?!? Health care and education aren't winning issues in the Democratic party anymore?!?! The primaries are good chance for the party to say what it wants to become going forward. All of the Democratic candidates have a better future for our country than he without shame. Let's argue ideas policy or favorite color but let's leave the name calling to the Republicans.

[Skidmore]

25. "Establisment" has become a taunt used

by the Sanders campaign for years to imply that the Democratic party does not care about people or their problems.

For me, it seems to miss an important point. Those throwing around "status quo" and "establishment" are running in a past that ignores a de facto new normal put in place by Trump. Trump's regime has created an establishment by laying waste to the very institutions that should stand as foundations on which to build change.

I consider "progressive" to be a divisive label as well in the current political climate. It presents a false representation of Democrats for the express purpose of splitting us all at this critical time.

I've been paying attention to how candidates use language that addresses restoration of not a status quo or an establishment, but governance and democratic principles.

[mcar]

34. Remember a few months ago, when EW was surging?

Suddenly, Sen. Sanders supporters were calling her "establishment."

And who can forget Planned Parenthood, that establishment, corporatist, neoliberal group.

[treestar]

73. And you have to wonder how bad is the Establishment?

There are people in other countries that would love to have such a one. Changes, like the ACA, can be made via the system. It is stable. It's a good thing not to have revolutions all the time.

[Skidmore]

94. Yes.

Stability has been the hallmark of our democracy. I have no desire for this nation to ping pong between extremes like many nations.

[JustAnotherGen]

28. Agreed! eom

[brer cat]

30. I agree, NJ.

Thanks. K&R

[mcar]

32. Corporatist, neoliberal, and shill also are divisive terms WRT Democrats

and shouldn't be used by those who claim to want unity.

[empedocles]

44. 'Cemtrist' is also misleading

[mcar]

45. Indeed

[hangaleft]

88. How is it misleading?

I don’t see it as being derogatory. And if told one is a centrist, in one word I have a pretty good handle on where they stand on the issues and which candidate(s) they support.

[empedocles]

108. Pragmatists who support Biden as the best to beat trump,

may, as in my case, like single payer.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

33. I don't even know what the term "establishment" is supposed to mean,

but might it include someone who's been an elected official for some 40 years? The way some choose to use it these days (much like the term "corporate" Democrats - what the hell does that mean?) seems to be sort of like the way old Soviet denunciations were used; maybe "establishment Democrat" is just a modern version of "revanchist running-dog bourgeois traitor to the proletariat and tool of the imperialist oligarchy."

[Quixote1818]

36. How about Establishment Bros? Would that be better?

[NurseJackie]

38. Sure, Jan.

[Quixote1818]

39. Sorry that got under your skin enough for you to Meme me.

I just could not resist.

[NurseJackie]

41. Oh, honey! Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!

[Quixote1818]

42. Shit's getting real, a double Meme attack.

It's okay, we are all still on the same team in the end.

[NurseJackie]

43. I'm not so sure about that...

... especially when I consider the motivations and consequences of those who are determined to "burn down" the Democratic party with their lies and smears and attacks and insults and divisive rhetoric. The Democratic party is NOT corrupt. The Democratic party is NOT a failure. The Democratic party is NOT the party of the elite. The Democratic party DOES care about climate change. The Democratic party is NOT rigging the process. The Democratic party is NOT ideologically bankrupt. The Democratic party does NOT "focus too much" on diversity. The Democratic party IS NOT THE SAME as the GOP.

Why is anyone defending this shit? Why look the other way? Why pretend that it's not having a harmful effect? Why pretend that it's not divisive and that the hateful rhetoric like that one creates distrust and suspicion?

Frankly, I will NEVER be able to trust or respect or support ANYONE who engages in this bullshit. It only serves to weaken and destroy the party. That only benefits the GOP (and Trump and Russia). So, no... I'm not at all sure that we're "on the same team" when I hear things like that from people who claim to be "on our team".

[Quixote1818]

81. You mean a few thousand people out of tens of millions

I voted for Hillary a month early and I will vote a month early for any of the Dem candidates. I like Bernie and I think Sanders supporters who want to tare the place down are nuts. I had to block a Facebook Sanders supporting friend because she kept attacking Hillary and not Trump. However, it feels to me that a few here want to put all Sanders supporters into the Bernie Bro tent and that is hurtful. Your "Not so sure" you and I are on the same side? Are you suggesting I am a "Bernie Bro"?

Please clarify.

[NurseJackie]

91. ...

[Quixote1818]

96. I asked the question in good faith

What's the answer?

[NurseJackie]

99. I'm smarter than you think...

... and I know you're smarter than you're pretending to be right now. If you genuinely don't understand what I'm talking about then there's nothing else that I could add to make it clearer for you. You're on your own from this point on. Good luck.

[Quixote1818]

100. So then you think I'm a Bernie Bro or you would have been nice

And said "Of course not, sorry if that came off wrong."

[NurseJackie]

101. ...

[Quixote1818]

102. I'm discussing from my heart regardless of what you think

I tried to be nice above by suggesting we are more alike than not and you seem hellbent on driving a wedge. How about this. Do we both hate Trump and want him gone? I suspect so so let's find common ground and find a way to come together. I am willing to bet we have a lot more in common than not. And I'm not a fucking Bernie Bro even though I like Sanders. And I don't want to be put in that category. I hope you can understand and respect that.

[FoxNewsSucks]

40. Rachel Maddow coined the term "ConservaDem"

in 2009-2010 when the ACA was being worked on. For months, she and others covered how Obamacare could have been better, had it not been for "ConservaDems" who, one after the other, raised objections and watered things down.

Terms like Establishment Dem, ConservaDem, BlueDog Democrat, corporatists, etc aren't always used as insults. It's just identifying someone's ideology. Same as calling someone a "liberal" Democrat, "progressive" or "left-wing".

Maybe it's the listener/reader who shouldn't always take things as an insult, or go looking for an insult where none is present.

[ouija]

48. Democratic party

Has become a landing ground for Republican refugees.

[Atticus]

47. Rec! (I see what you did there!) NT

[RelativelyJones]

51. A...efin...men.

[TheFarseer]

52. What term do you prefer? Nt

[KPN]

57. Exactly.

[CalFione]

58. "Full-time Democrats"

Something neither Bernie Sanders nor Mike Bloomberg can say.

[W_HAMILTON]

60. Democrats.

Without fail, when a temporary Democrat like Sanders trashes """establishment Democrats,""" you can just remove the "establishment" part and it is means what he is really trying to say: he is just trashing Democrats.

[TheFarseer]

61. So AOC is in the club?

Just checking.

[W_HAMILTON]

65. She is the one that said our party was too big a tent, right?

[TheFarseer]

68. You have to admit

If we tried to appeal to Sean Hannity or Jerry Falwell for their vote, then we might have lost our core values. I know that’s an extreme example but it just illustrates the idea that the tent can get too big. I’m not sure I agree with her that we are at that point now.

[W_HAMILTON]

95. My core values haven't changed and they are the reason Hannity and Falwell hate us.

Sanders and his merry gang of Jill Stein voters should look at themselves in the mirror since THEY are the ones getting vocal support from shitty Republicans like Trump, Hugh Hewitt, etc.

[Mersky]

55. This is my favorite OP today.

I know this, even though it’s only mid afternoon.

[KPN]

56. Oh, you mean like "Bernie Bro's" is a divisive

term and shouldn’t be used by those who claim they want unity?

[George II]

63. Nothing like dismissing a HUGE segment of the Democratic Party and our voters.

[DesertRat]

67. +1000

[Evolve Dammit]

69. So we should just overlook Donna Brazille's leaking debate questions to Hillary? That's OK?

And it's obvious who the faves are. It's a big clique. Sorry. Not donating a dime. Will donate to the candidates of MY choosing, not who is in favor with the DNC.

[ehrnst]

74. Kicked and recced!

[guillaumeb]

76. Recommended.

It has no place in actual dialogue. But there are many such terms that we all see here.

[Cha]

77. Exactly, Jackie!

[Nitram]

90. Thanks for this, NJ. I agree entirely. The term "establishment Democrat" is used for Democrats

who have worked long and hard for the Democratic Party. But it also seems to suggest a conservative approach. While it may indeed reflect a certain pragmatism learned by virtue of years of experience in activism, politics, and the Democratic Party, the term should join terms like "Bernie Bros", Goldwater Girl," and "corporate shill" in being avoided during civil discussion of Democratic politics among Democrats. Let's compare policies and plans to implement policies instead of demeaning Democrats we personally don't like.

[Squinch]

97. It's close to the top of my list of "bot alerts."

[Proud Liberal Dem]

104. 100% Agree!

I'm so sick of hearing it too

[redstatebluegirl]

105. I LOVE your posts so much!

[Gothmog]

106. I am proud to be a member of the Democratic Party and I want to nominate a Democrat

[NCProgressive]

113. It is a machiavellian and divisive term created by seasonal Democrats

[R B Garr]

117. K&R! Exactly right, NJ.

We’ve seen this before and know where this all started.