Why is it that it's only Bernie followers who seem to engage in widespread bullying?

[pnwmom]

You don't hear this about male supporters of anyone else -- of Yang, Biden, Buttigieg, O'Rourke, etc.

What is it that's drawing people like that to Bernie's campaign?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/27/us/politics/bernie-sanders-internet-supporters-2020.html

Some progressive activists who declined to back Mr. Sanders have begun traveling with private security after incurring online harassment. Several well-known feminist writers said they had received death threats. A state party chairwoman changed her phone number. A Portland lawyer saw her business rating tumble on an online review site after tussling with Sanders supporters on Twitter.

Other notable targets have included Ady Barkan, a prominent liberal activist with A.L.S. — whom some Sanders-cheering accounts accused of lacking decision-making faculties due to his illness as he prepared to endorse Senator Elizabeth Warren — and Fred Guttenberg, the father of a shooting victim from the 2018 Parkland massacre, who had criticized Mr. Sanders’s statements about gun violence.

“Politics is a contact sport,” said Bakari Sellers, a former South Carolina State legislator who supported Ms. Harris in the Democratic primary. “But you have to be very cognizant when you say anything critical of Bernie online. You might have to put your phone down. There’s going to be a blowback, and it could be sexist, racist and vile.”

SNIP

When Mr. Sanders’s supporters swarm someone online, they often find multiple access points to that person’s life, compiling what can amount to investigative dossiers. They will attack all public social media accounts, posting personal insults that might flow in by the hundreds. Some of the missives are direct threats of violence, which can be reported to Twitter or Facebook and taken down.

[HerbChestnut]

1. Wouldn't know Bernie supporters were the bullies by reading this forum.

Often times it seems like anyone BUT Bernie supporters are the bullies here.

[pnwmom]

2. This forum is moderated. Bullying isn't tolerated. Also, it is harder to go after people

on multiple platforms when they use screennames here, not real names.

[HerbChestnut]

4. Ha!

.........

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

8. I'd like to see an example of bullying on DU by supporters of other candidates.

I've seen criticism, which is why political message boards exist, but bullying violates DU's TOS. Let's see an example.

[HerbChestnut]

12. Oh come on.

A quarter of the posts on the front page of the primaries forum are posts disparaging Bernie supporters. Any positive posts regarding Bernie or his campaign are brigaded by the same group of members who find a way to inject cynicism into the conversation. That's bullying.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

13. It's not bullying. It's criticism.

Bullying is unwanted, aggressive behavior that involves a real or perceived power imbalance. Where's the power imbalance? Bernie is supposedly the front-runner, or so he claims. On-line bullying of women by Bernie supporters, including doxxing, stalking, and phone calls, is bullying, and it has happened. Show me an example of that on DU, by anybody.

[sheshe2]

17. Vetting is bullying?

Quoting him is not bullying.

[pnwmom]

19. There is a critical difference between criticizing and bullying, as described in the article.

The other campaigns haven't been associated with the sorts of online harassment described below.

Some progressive activists who declined to back Mr. Sanders have begun traveling with private security after incurring online harassment. Several well-known feminist writers said they had received death threats. A state party chairwoman changed her phone number. A Portland lawyer saw her business rating tumble on an online review site after tussling with Sanders supporters on Twitter.

Other notable targets have included Ady Barkan, a prominent liberal activist with A.L.S. — whom some Sanders-cheering accounts accused of lacking decision-making faculties due to his illness as he prepared to endorse Senator Elizabeth Warren — and Fred Guttenberg, the father of a shooting victim from the 2018 Parkland massacre, who had criticized Mr. Sanders’s statements about gun violence.

“Politics is a contact sport,” said Bakari Sellers, a former South Carolina State legislator who supported Ms. Harris in the Democratic primary. “But you have to be very cognizant when you say anything critical of Bernie online. You might have to put your phone down. There’s going to be a blowback, and it could be sexist, racist and vile.”

In recent days, he said, one man sent a profanity-filled private message on Instagram, calling Mr. Sellers, who is black, an “Uncle Tom” and wishing him brain cancer.

[Sloumeau]

66. Being cynical is not bullying.

Definition of Bully:

seek to harm, intimidate, or coerce (someone perceived as vulnerable).

Bullying is:
Death threats are bullying.
Calling another poster on DU names might be considered bullying.
Doxxing someone by getting personal information on someone is bullying.

Bullying is not:
Expressing disbelief about something Bernie Sanders said is not bullying.
Saying that you do not think Bernie Sanders can win is not bullying.
Disagreeing with a policy position of Bernie Sanders is not bullying.
Disagreeing with another DU poster about whether or not an idea of Bernie Sanders is a good idea or not is not bullying.

[Gravitycollapse]

46. You F&*king kidding me? So many acts of bullying on DU pass because they're against BS.

It's almost unbearable being a Sanders supporter on here. The constant onslaught of insults and actual genuine bullying is remarkable.

The fact that you would suggest otherwise is insulting and speaks to a larger problem on DU.

[Sloumeau]

55. Please feel free to give examples of the bullying against BS. :) nt

[Gravitycollapse]

59. You are literally in a post bullying BS supporters. Don't gaslight me.

It's not going to work.

[betsuni]

61. Can you please give examples of what you consider bullying?

Don't have to link, just paraphrase. The OP is obviously talking about a minority of Bernie supporters. What in this thread do you consider bullying?

[Gravitycollapse]

64. Bullying is making judgements on the character of a candidates supporters...

Mocking them, questioning their motivations, suggesting secret allegiances, dismissing their concerns.

These are all pretty systemic issues on DU specifically against Sanders supporters.

[betsuni]

87. Well, when I say that the ACA with a public option and 55-year-old Medicare

eligibility as what was in the 2016 Democratic Party platform will get more votes than Medicare for All, I'm called stupid, naive, rich, Republican, conservative, centrist, troll, I don't care about millions of Americans dying, etc.

I think it's funny because obviously it's not true. I don't get upset. Obviously this is making judgements on my character. But so what?

[dchill]

62. +1,000,000.

[krissey]

67. Please and asking for examples are bullying? You might want to look the word up. Hint.

Suggesting you looking up the definition of bullying is not bullying.

[Cha]

3. That's your perspective.

[UniteFightBack]

6. We are not talking about HERE. nt

[Bluepinky]

53. I was thinking the exact same thing!

I voted for Klobuchar in the primary, but I would support any of the Democratic candidates in the general election, including Bernie.
The anti-Bernie rhetoric is out of control. I would guess that well over 25% of the discussion threads in the Democratic Primary forum are anti-Bernie. When I get asked to serve on a jury here, it almost always involves some offense, often nonexistent, committed by a Bernie supporter.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. They aren't really like that. They aren't real. Other campaigns have just as many people like that.

They are just excited and enthusiastic about their candidate. People are too sensitive. People are just as mean to Bernie and his supporters.



Did I get them all?

[Cha]

10. BS "floated" this..

Link to tweet

[Sloumeau]

57. So, BS refuses to do anything about it...

or to acknowlege that there is a problem.

[sheshe2]

18. Pretty much covers it all.

[ramen]

52. I have to say that a lot of us are actually not like that.

That is not a rhetorical device on my part. There is some toxic nonsense coming from some Sanders supporters. It is profoundly unhelpful, at best, and goes well beyond that in some serious cases.

But Sanders remains my preferred candidate based on his consistency, his policies, and his unwavering fight for the working class in this country. Some awful supporters of his do not change my mind about his actual platform.

It would be extremely helpful for him to call out the toxicity of that behavior. I hope he will do so ASAP. Meanwhile, his message is consistent with my hopes for this country.

[we can do it]

90. Then it would be helpful if those not bullying tell those who are it's not ok.

[ramen]

93. Totally agree. nt

[uponit7771]

78. Ummmm, no ... there was a fight at a BS even here recently. Other campaigns DO NOT have these people

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

91. I guess I forgot this:

[Sloumeau]

7. The average age of a supporter for Bernie Sanders may be younger than

the supporters for any other candidate. Sixty-year-olds, for example, do not generally tend to engage in a lot of bullying. As for college-age males, I have seen enough fraternity house initiations to know that college-age males seem to be much more tolerant of bullying than your average senior citizen.

I think that Nixon's Ratf**kers, Manafort, Stone, and Atwater, learned their dirty political tricks in college. Add in some college drinking, and who knows what happens?

[pnwmom]

9. Yang had young supporters. But they're not known for being bullies. n/t

[The Mouth]

14. Yang also never spoke badly about any other candidate

at least not in any way I recall.

[progressoid]

39. How many supporters?

If he had as many as Sanders has, it's statistically likely some of them would have been assholes too.

[pnwmom]

40. There is no evidence that a similar PROPORTION of Yang's supporters engage

in those activities, or any of the other candidates.

My theory is that a my-way-or-the-highway candidate is more likely to attract vehemently angry supporters.

Yang's pleasant, earnest demeanor doesn't attract bullies.

[krissey]

47. I am not seeing it from Buttigieg and he has youth, too. Nor Beto when he was around.

[denem]

49. The #YangGang were the nicest group of supporters out there.

Andrew's advocates here were a credit to his campaign.

[mdelaguna]

75. Klobuchar's supporters are super nice and measured here too

...which is making me feel way more positive about her candidacy.

[Gravitycollapse]

48. 60 year olds, like everyone else, engage in bullying.

The only difference is you won't admit it is bullying--for a lot of reasons, most of which revolve around lending legitimacy to the opinions of "elders."

[zonkers]

11. Civility is not part of this election cycle, period. They are mirroring MAGA crowd.

[pnwmom]

16. Civility doesn't seem to be a problems for supporters of other D's. Warren's supporters, for example

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

15. From the article:

Some progressive activists who declined to back Mr. Sanders have begun traveling with private security after incurring online harassment. Several well-known feminist writers said they had received death threats. A state party chairwoman changed her phone number. A Portland lawyer saw her business rating tumble on an online review site after tussling with Sanders supporters on Twitter.

Other notable targets have included Ady Barkan, a prominent liberal activist with A.L.S. — whom some Sanders-cheering accounts accused of lacking decision-making faculties due to his illness as he prepared to endorse Senator Elizabeth Warren — and Fred Guttenberg, the father of a shooting victim from the 2018 Parkland massacre, who had criticized Mr. Sanders’s statements about gun violence.

“Politics is a contact sport,” said Bakari Sellers, a former South Carolina State legislator who supported Ms. Harris in the Democratic primary. “But you have to be very cognizant when you say anything critical of Bernie online. You might have to put your phone down. There’s going to be a blowback, and it could be sexist, racist and vile.”

In recent days, he said, one man sent a profanity-filled private message on Instagram, calling Mr. Sellers, who is black, an “Uncle Tom” and wishing him brain cancer.

Have supporters of any of the other candidates been doing these things? If so, let's see some examples.

[sheshe2]

21. No they have not.

It would be front page news if they had.

However it is said these are not BSers...trolls possibly Russian bots when in the past they have denied any and all RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE in our election.

[betsuni]

26. Funny how some say Russian interference is just an excuse and didn't exist but

"They're Russian bots!" is the first thing they say about badly behaving Bernie supporters. Which is it, I wonder.

[sheshe2]

31. You just cannot have it both ways.

They didn't do it then, yet now they are doing it. Neva eva happened before yet now Hill isn't running they are doin' it to BS. RUSSIA! OMG!

I am so confused. They didn't, now they are? Circle game.

[Cha]

22. Thank you for that.. why do they have to be

so disgusting and cruel?

[tishaLA]

20. The Ady Barkan stuff was disgusting

All because he said once things about Sen Warren's healthcare plan! They diggested that he hadn't authored the tweet, that the ALS was giving him dementia, etc. He hadn't even criticized the junior senator from VT's plan--he just said something nice about someone else's.

[Vivienne235729]

23. You make a good point. And I find it interesting that Bernie, himself, never admonishes the bad

Behaviors of his staff.

[dalton99a]

24. "If you're not with Bernie you're an infidel"

"Convert or suffer" is their approach

[betsuni]

28. So true.

Religious fervor like that makes me nervous.

[uponit7771]

32. +1

[betsuni]

25. Fom Steve Almond's "Bad Stories":

"I recognized Jon's rhetorical posture from my own years as a Ralph Nader crusader. He wanted to vote for someone he believed in ... . But his logic was that of a fatalist. The system was broken beyond repair, policies were empty promises to a wage slave like him. The conservative movement fosters this false equivalence, which breeds apathy and depresses turnout.

"Jon saw himself as an online activist committed to progressive causes. But more fundamentally, he was a high-school grad stuck in his mom's house. In this sense, he was part of a larger generational cohort: alienated young men who went online to find the power they couldn't experience in real life. ... The goal of these loose-knit networks was never political, because the 'shitlords' who ruled these sites didn't believe in politics. ... I only know that he spent hours upon hours online, absorbing agitprop aimed at him, and that he turned away from issues of economic uplift and committed himself, with increasing vigor, to trashing Clinton and agitating her voters. [Who were] too dumb to recognize the folly of genuine political belief.

"The Internet feeds this kind of aggrieved groupthink, particular among angry young men. It grants them the illusion of reportorial industry without any of the inconvenient moral or factual safeguards. In this way, it become the ideal breeding ground for radicalism, because users experience their indoctrination as a form of actualization. ... The more time we spend on the Internet -- the more we're exposed to, and participate in, unchecked contempt and uncontested lies -- the more degraded our sense of common decency becomes."

[David__77]

27. There's a story that a frog may consider the sky to be the size of the well.

Someone else may find that supporters or so and so are particularly rude.

On this site, there are lots of long-time posters who support various candidates and conversation seems reasonably tame.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

29. The conversations on DU are reasonably tame because the TOS requires them to be.

Elsewhere, not so much.

[pnwmom]

54. This site is well-moderated. It's other sites where the bullying occurs. n/t

[ibegurpard]

30. Because you see what you want to see

Im not going to try to say it's not happening or that others are doing it as much. But you only have to peruse this forum to see how vicious people are being to Bernie people. Yeah i know... "they it started it"... who's going to end it? We are all going to have to try to come together and a lot of people on MULTIPLE fronts are doing their best to make that impossible.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

35. Please cite some examples.

Has any supporter of another candidate on DU or elsewhere online called a female Sanders supporter a bitch or a c*nt? Any death threats? Stalking? Doxxing? Harm to someone's business? Obscene or threatening posts or phone calls? I'd like to see some proof that "both sides do it."

[progressoid]

50. NSFW...

For the record, I do not endorse this. Just showing that there are others out there whose enthusiasm crosses the line.

Link to tweet

[pnwmom]

44. That's quite a claim. Link, please. n/t

[krissey]

33. Starts at the top. Sanders has been bullying Democrats for five decades and Democrats

have basically ignored it. Sanders has created this all by himself and when pointed out refuses to address. Cenk, Rogan are both bullies. He hangs with bullies.

[ashredux]

34. Remember: Anyone can be anything online...who are they...where do they live?

Bernie Bros.....are the online “Bro’s” all in America?

[JoeOtterbein]

36. Easy answer:

We don't cry because, we are WINNING!!!!

Duh much?

[krissey]

41. Firstly, Buttigieg is winning. Second, Sanders has been crying since 2015 and hasn't stopped.

[pnwmom]

42. The article talked about DEATH THREATS. If Bernie people were getting

death threats from supporters of others, I'm sure we would be hearing about it.

[ehrnst]

94. Death threats.... and you are fist pumping?

[George II]

99. You didn't address the "widespread bullying" mentioned in the OP. So "winning"* is license to bully?

*Pete Buttigieg is winning. Sanders is merely a close second.

[Aussie105]

37. I find it interesting that Bernie, himself, never admonishes the bad behaviors of his staff.

And who has told you they are Bernie staff?

Are they though?

MAGAts pretending to be Bernie supporters, paid for actors attending the rallies aiming to give Bernie a political black eye?

If they are 'Bernie staff', they are doing Bernie no good at all.

Somebody needs to get to the bottom of this! Who are these troublemakers, are they registered voters, and hell, are they actually American citizens? Or does the online 'Bernie Bros' presence reside in some overseas troll farm?

"When Mr. Sanders’s supporters swarm someone online, they often find multiple access points to that person’s life, compiling what can amount to investigative dossiers. They will attack all public social media accounts, posting personal insults that might flow in by the hundreds. Some of the missives are direct threats of violence, which can be reported to Twitter or Facebook and taken down."

This behavior sounds way too complicated and orchestrated to be a bunch of independent Bernie supporters causing trouble.
More in line with a troll farm, really.

[pnwmom]

43. If they aren't Bernie people, then why isn't he speaking out more strongly against them?

[mdelaguna]

76. On Hardball last night they showed clip of him admonishing

... such people who he said he did not consider to be part of his movement (doxxers, bullies)...

[ehrnst]

95. He generally states that he "didn't know about it" so I guess that means he doesn't need

to apologize or take responsibility as in "the buck stops here." That or "all sides are doing it, and I don't approve of any of them doing this."

Lately, he's floated the "well sometimes people who aren't my supporters are claiming to be..."

I think there is a "cover the quarterback" attitude in the campaign, to protect him from having to "know" and therefore be accountable for wrongs done by his campaign.

Much like the Trump 2016 campaign.

[Beringia]

38. House Finches love Bernie

v

[Cha]

45. Attempt at distraction from what's going on in the OP

is not working.

[ehrnst]

96. They seem to have declined to bless his campaign with a miraculous appearance this time around.

[TalenaGor]

51. this is my struggle with Sanders

I support him I support his message I caucused for him and everything....

But for some reason he seems to pull Trump voters (the few that still have a bit of conscience anyway).... I don't know how people reconcile it in their head going from Republican platform to a Democratic socialist platform....but it seems to me there's a bunch of people that just don't really care about the platform they just want something ... else.... So on one hand, hey he pulls Trump voters that could be good..... But also then we have those type of people on our side and I don't want that.....


Either that or they're actual Russian plants just trying to cause division....

Either way it makes me very fucking nervous.....

But I don't blame Bernie for it.....

[radius777]

56. Tech-bros like Zuckerberg control the internet, which is a sewer

that allows the far left-bros, alt-right bros, hackers/bots etc to grow unchecked.

IOW, the culture is set by entitled white dudes, which the media promotes as 'hip', and some others now (some younger poc, women etc) get drawn in, thinking it's where 'the revolution' is at.

Alot of these bros/wannabe-bros are the biggest cowards IRL - who want to feel tough by attacking women, poc, gays etc - who they resent for success - really what drives their anger.

Basically, if one has the patience, the best thing is to refute their entire fairy-tale populist entitlement mentality. They think (deep down) that they're entitled to be rich and favored in the global economy just because they're white and American - as if that's the biggest form of oppression in the world.

[RandySF]

58. They skew younger and male, thus more aggressive.

[pnwmom]

60. But so do Yang's supporters, and they're not bullies.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-we-know-about-andrew-yangs-base/

[RandySF]

63. Not as large a pool of people.

[pnwmom]

65. Still, you'd expect to have heard some reports, if the issue was being young and male.

Young men are more likely to be with Bernie, but there are also young men supporting ALL of the candidates. And yet the only reports we hear of bullies are from the Sanders camp.

I think it's because Bernie is more likely to attract inflexible, self-righteous, true-believer supporters.

[krissey]

68. I think it is an example Sanders has set over the last five decades and especially last five years.

Personally. Look at how Sanders talks to and at people. Learn by example.

[Cha]

69. yes.

[dalton99a]

70. +1. And how he turns a blind eye to their ratfucking and bullshit

[betsuni]

72. +1

[radius777]

73. Obama's base was young, so was Beto's in TX in 2018,

both had a large following/media hype with lots of young (male and female) followers - there was none of this type of dark behavior we see with some elements of the Bernie and Trump bases.

Beto flamed out in the presidential race and his followers never turned to the 'dark side'.

[uponit7771]

79. The percentage of bullies was lower among the rest of candidates no matter who they

... are.

This bullying thing is with Sanders not any one else.

[uponit7771]

80. There was a fight at a recent Sanders rally, that's a fact not a "trope". No other dem candidates

... supporters do that crap

[uponit7771]

83. False equivalence noted, no other candidates have fights at their rallies like Sanders ...

... no matter what the spin.

[uponit7771]

88. This is false on its face, Obama had bigger turnout during his primary run and no fist fights among

... his supporters

I've not seen any candidates supporters as virulent or violent as Sanders supporters in my voting lifetime.

[gollygee]

89. "Literal victim blaming" ?????

Victim?? Whom do you think is a victim? And how?

[eilen]

74. When I used to be on Twitter

the only time I was piled on/bullied was by Bernie supporters and it was not an election year... I must have posted something critical about Bernie... anyhow, most Twitter interactions you expect to end after about a week and people move on with their lives but these assholes kept it going for Months. Finally just went through and blocked every single one of them but every now and then a different Twitter handle would come through keeping it alive.

I quit Twitter.

Then, let's see... on FB, a friend's page I followed who is a journo and probably a Bernie fan... I was attacked by some vile woman, called all kinds of names etc. There were people who defended me who were also treated then in kind-- just miserable nastiness from that person (a Bernie fan). I quit following that journo.

Because I don't go on the internet to be personally attacked because I am not falling in line with the latest charismatic cult personality.

MAGATs online are also offensive but they usually have a more limited vocabulary and honestly, come off more as loons than anything else. But I submit they are toxic and I avoid their swill.

I remember back in 2008, it could get contentious between Hillary Clinton supporters and Obama supporters but not like this, and it got ugly.

I have not encountered anything close to that level of vitriol from any other political group/fan base.

[DanTex]

77. It's not. It's a media myth.

Go to twitter and see for yourself. There are rude people on all sides. Even one of the people interviewed for that NYT article has posted obscene attacks against Bernie supporters.

[uponit7771]

81. There was a fight at a recent Sanders rally, that's a fact not myth

[DanTex]

86. Interesting anecdote.

[ehrnst]

98. But "all sides" right?

[NurseJackie]

84. "... all sides ..." ---Oh, Lord... here we go.

[ehrnst]

97. False equivalency....

Not surprised at all...

[George II]

100. Oh my. That's all I can say.

[Zolorp]

92. They aren't the only ones.

The MAGAts are just as bad.

[Hearthrob]

101. These are NOT Saunders supporters

This is Trump bums again- cause the ratings are still up. So we have Biden, Warren AND Bloomberg still in their sites.
Please spread the word. This is bad publicity on the parties part.

[pnwmom]

102. Then why isn't he speaking out against them and saying they don't represent him? n/t

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

103. Because they're true believers who think the end justifies the means?

Just my guess.

[Cha]

104. Kick