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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

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(0 posts)
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 11:44 AM Apr 2019

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29 votes, 2 passes | Time left: Poll closed
Support it
23 (79%)
Oppose it
6 (21%)
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Message auto-removed (Original Post) Name removed Apr 2019 OP
Either free Turin_C3PO Apr 2019 #1
Gotta do something to remain competitive in a Global Economy when competing countries do it. TheBlackAdder Apr 2019 #23
nothing is free, but the student debt is oppressive rampartc Apr 2019 #2
TANSTAAFL WheelWalker Apr 2019 #3
I am hoping that handmade34 Apr 2019 #51
I'm not in favor of my tax dollars paying for Bill Gates kids college mcar Apr 2019 #4
Your thoughts mirror mine. NurseJackie Apr 2019 #8
It was HRC's position too mcar Apr 2019 #10
Harvard won't be free zipplewrath Apr 2019 #27
Plenty of well off families send their kids to public colleges mcar Apr 2019 #32
UC used to be free zipplewrath Apr 2019 #34
It has gotten harder to get into UF mcar Apr 2019 #35
4 year institutions should offer "trades" zipplewrath Apr 2019 #37
Also, Classical Liberal Arts in Jeffersonian Tradition - the love of all Knowledge n/t MarcA Apr 2019 #42
Yes to both! mcar Apr 2019 #43
Harvard has made itself free for students from families making less than $150K Recursion Apr 2019 #36
This message was self-deleted by its author Mosby Apr 2019 #38
All the Ivies have done this mcar Apr 2019 #44
100% agree Freddie Apr 2019 #29
Ridiculous argument. The wealthy will always send their kids to elite private schools. Hassin Bin Sober Apr 2019 #31
See my post #32 mcar Apr 2019 #33
Howard Dean: "Bill Gates deserves free health care" brooklynite Apr 2019 #46
I take his point mcar Apr 2019 #48
Labeling anything like this "free" will open the Democrats to ridicule from the GOP Freethinker65 Apr 2019 #5
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2019 #6
It's still a rather non-strategic nomenclature, as is 'Medicare-For-All' mr_lebowski Apr 2019 #14
+1 Freethinker65 Apr 2019 #21
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2019 #22
No, because I'm not asking for 'free' and it never could be 'free' so it's a dumb rallying cry mr_lebowski Apr 2019 #26
But in this case, the GOP is correct. Freethinker65 Apr 2019 #20
Agree..... pangaia Apr 2019 #15
Lower the tuition's (not free) so that people can work part time and still pay off their Peacetrain Apr 2019 #7
Agree...add trade schools to for folks who don't want college like in Germany WA-03 Democrat Apr 2019 #9
There is no money in trade these days. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #40
As late as the early 90's I was paying $325/quarter in tuition at a Cal State college ... mr_lebowski Apr 2019 #17
It isn't necessary to be free to be fair genxlib Apr 2019 #11
neither would be 'free' to begin with. TAXES ...... pangaia Apr 2019 #13
I really am tired of hearing the phrase. "FREE" college for all. or.... pangaia Apr 2019 #12
Nothing is free. LisaM Apr 2019 #16
Free college for all is a stupid idea BlueFlorida Apr 2019 #18
After looking recently at what it costs today to go where I went in late 60s, I don't see how people Hoyt Apr 2019 #19
Free college without income limits is a disaster... community college can be be free in fact some Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #24
If they can pass the entrance exams...ok... Maxheader Apr 2019 #25
That is a given ... I got into it w/a RWNJ who insisted 'free college' mr_lebowski Apr 2019 #28
And with some shitty schools in poor neighborhoods who do you think will pass the tests? You will Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #39
The social benefits of treating education (knowledge) as a public good seem obvious to me. nt PETRUS Apr 2019 #30
Not everyone is cut out to be a academic. marylandblue Apr 2019 #41
I would favor it with a couple caveats right off the top of my head.... DaGimpster Apr 2019 #45
"Free College for All" implies that there is college for all... brooklynite Apr 2019 #47
Exactly Recursion Apr 2019 #49
That's been the case in tech (where I work) for a while now. DaGimpster Apr 2019 #50
 

Turin_C3PO

(14,324 posts)
1. Either free
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 11:47 AM
Apr 2019

Or DRASTICALLY lower tuition.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TheBlackAdder

(28,368 posts)
23. Gotta do something to remain competitive in a Global Economy when competing countries do it.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:29 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

rampartc

(5,619 posts)
2. nothing is free, but the student debt is oppressive
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 11:53 AM
Apr 2019

i think the opportunity should be there to trade college for national service.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

WheelWalker

(8,983 posts)
3. TANSTAAFL
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 11:54 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

handmade34

(22,761 posts)
51. I am hoping that
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 04:23 PM
Apr 2019

people are smart enough when they say 'free' they understand that means not out of pocket but through taxation

misnomers can be very confusing

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mcar

(42,702 posts)
4. I'm not in favor of my tax dollars paying for Bill Gates kids college
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 11:57 AM
Apr 2019

I support free community college, a complete overhaul of the student loan system and lower tuition in state colleges.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
8. Your thoughts mirror mine.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:05 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mcar

(42,702 posts)
10. It was HRC's position too
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:12 PM
Apr 2019

so we are in good company.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
27. Harvard won't be free
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:38 PM
Apr 2019

You won't have to worry about paying for Gates children, they'll be going to some private school.
Did you go to a Land Grant college? I did.
Did you go to a public school? I did, no one asked how much my parents made.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

mcar

(42,702 posts)
32. Plenty of well off families send their kids to public colleges
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 01:01 PM
Apr 2019

I live in FL. UF is Mecca to Floridians who can well afford to send their kids to private schools. These rich jerks have made this state nearly unliveable over the last several decades thanks to their obsession with lowering taxes. Now I'm expected to have my tax dollars pay for their kid to scream "Go Gators" all over the place? No thanks.

FWIW, I attended a private Jesuit college in my hometown, back in the days when college was affordable (graduated 1980). I lived at home, worked part time and took the city bus to my classes. My parents covered my tuition, I paid for books and other expenses.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
34. UC used to be free
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 01:05 PM
Apr 2019

Brooklyn college too. It's been done before. It's the anti-tax crowd that killed it.
The Florida situation is interesting. Between Bright Futures and Pre-paid, tons of kids that used to leave the state to go to college, now stay in state. As such, it's gotten very hard to get into UF, even by legacies. So the thing that is killing things here is all of this state funded college education.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

mcar

(42,702 posts)
35. It has gotten harder to get into UF
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 01:09 PM
Apr 2019

The legislature has bastardized Bright Futures so that it's now a "lottery" program. Not every student who earns it gets it.

I remember when CA schools were free.

I think that community colleges are one of the best things we've got going for us. They offer chances for kids who can't afford or didn't have the grades to get into a 4 year school. Making them free for kids who meet the requirements will help more students gain higher education or get a trade certification.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
37. 4 year institutions should offer "trades"
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 01:47 PM
Apr 2019

Nothing wrong with an educated plumber.
My school had a program to become an certified FAA aircraft mechanic. 4 year program and you took many of the same general course work that all the other freshmen took.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

MarcA

(2,195 posts)
42. Also, Classical Liberal Arts in Jeffersonian Tradition - the love of all Knowledge n/t
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 02:41 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mcar

(42,702 posts)
43. Yes to both!
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 02:49 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
36. Harvard has made itself free for students from families making less than $150K
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 01:19 PM
Apr 2019

So, I mean, yeah

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to Recursion (Reply #36)

 

mcar

(42,702 posts)
44. All the Ivies have done this
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 02:50 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Freddie

(9,332 posts)
29. 100% agree
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:43 PM
Apr 2019

Free community college or trade school (not ripoff for-profit “schools”) and greatly reduced tuition at state schools.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,429 posts)
31. Ridiculous argument. The wealthy will always send their kids to elite private schools.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:58 PM
Apr 2019

Just like they do now when free public grade school and high school is currently available to the wealthy.


And for the few that might send their kids to a public school, I say more power to them. Get the kids out of the bubble and rub elbows with us commoners. Maybe they will meet some kids working their way through college or single mothers trying to get a degree with no help.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

mcar

(42,702 posts)
33. See my post #32
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 01:03 PM
Apr 2019

My argument is not ridiculous, but thanks for the insult.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

brooklynite

(95,645 posts)
46. Howard Dean: "Bill Gates deserves free health care"
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 02:57 PM
Apr 2019

His theory is: if EVERYONE benefits from a support program, it can't get framed as "welfare".

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mcar

(42,702 posts)
48. I take his point
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 03:05 PM
Apr 2019

But since there's no such thing as free health care, or free college, the framing just doesn't work.

Universal healthcare. Universal Pre-K, Universal climate policies, Universal community college, etc.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Freethinker65

(10,194 posts)
5. Labeling anything like this "free" will open the Democrats to ridicule from the GOP
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 11:58 AM
Apr 2019

Last edited Thu Apr 4, 2019, 04:06 PM - Edit history (1)

Healthcare/health insurance/Medicare is not "free". College tuition will never be "free".

Explain a more equitable way to finance these, and many other programs, and I will most likely be for them.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to Freethinker65 (Reply #5)

 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
14. It's still a rather non-strategic nomenclature, as is 'Medicare-For-All'
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:14 PM
Apr 2019

Yes they'll complain either way, but it's dumb to give them an obvious opening.

People like 'reform' ... call it something like 'Student Loan Reform', and/or 'Tuition Reform' ... and then make clear what it is we mean: fed/state money going to better subsidize higher education (like it did in our Parent's day), taking it from primarily our bloated military budget and slightly higher taxes on the 1%.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Freethinker65

(10,194 posts)
21. +1
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:25 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #14)

 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
26. No, because I'm not asking for 'free' and it never could be 'free' so it's a dumb rallying cry
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:37 PM
Apr 2019

I'm for 'increasing taxpayer subsidies to levels similar to past generations, in order to lower student's costs to reasonable levels' ... which is quite different.

Call it 'return to fairly-priced state colleges/universities'

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Freethinker65

(10,194 posts)
20. But in this case, the GOP is correct.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:24 PM
Apr 2019

And we will waste time explaining how our "free" program(s) will be funded....which throws us off message of the benefits of more equitable funding of such programs.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
15. Agree.....
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:15 PM
Apr 2019

taxes DUH !!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Peacetrain

(22,991 posts)
7. Lower the tuition's (not free) so that people can work part time and still pay off their
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:04 PM
Apr 2019

college costs as they go along... Reagan took away the grants colleges got.. When we were young in the late 60's and early 70's our tuition was just a little over 100.00 dollars a quarter at the University of Minnesota (yes we had quarters then)..It is in the country's interest to invest in our people.. not everyone needs four year schools... and we do not really do apprentice programs anymore.. Community Colleges have taken that over.. so 100.00 now probably would be more like 4 or 5 hundred dollars.. but we were able to pay it off as we went.. made 1.65 an hour.. we did not have the same needs for cars internet cable computers cell phones.. how we relate to one another has completely changed and those have to be considered in our pay rates.. the minimum wage needs to reflect those needs.. but again.. the republicans were so jealous that the average person was getting an education that the cut the life line of grants to colleges, and predatory schools popped up to take advantage of people who got loans..

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

WA-03 Democrat

(3,095 posts)
9. Agree...add trade schools to for folks who don't want college like in Germany
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:08 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(69,102 posts)
40. There is no money in trade these days.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 02:30 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
17. As late as the early 90's I was paying $325/quarter in tuition at a Cal State college ...
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:21 PM
Apr 2019

In 89-90 I had my own, really nice studio apt in off-campus student housing that was literally a block from campus ... and my rent was $450/month. I'm sure it was subsidized in some way, as obviously the school was.

Presently you'd have a hard time buying a 500 sq ft. shack on a 750 sq. ft lot in this same town for under $250K. And tuition is probably like $3-4K/quarter at least.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

genxlib

(5,560 posts)
11. It isn't necessary to be free to be fair
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:12 PM
Apr 2019

Lower the baseline cost to a quarter or third of what it is now. Then further lower it further for those in real need.

I have never been a big fan of free because it prevents people from being motivated to actually understand and extract the appropriate value out of the process.

I am also not a fan of free health care either. I think it helps to have people responsible for a reasonable co-pay.

In full disclosure, I have a daughter headed to college next year and it will likely cost me an small fortune. I would certainly benefit from free but I am still not an advocate.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
13. neither would be 'free' to begin with. TAXES ......
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:13 PM
Apr 2019

but I get your point... and do not necessarily disagree....

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
12. I really am tired of hearing the phrase. "FREE" college for all. or....
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:12 PM
Apr 2019

FREE health care. or FREE anything. It is misleading and not truthful.

WE should be telling the truth.

Also, concerning the REAL reasons for the problem with college expenses.
THAT should be right at the top of any discussion about college costs... It is freakin' blackmail..



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LisaM

(27,933 posts)
16. Nothing is free.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:17 PM
Apr 2019

I do think we need to seriously evaluate where we lost our path and definitely restore affordability. Make Community College free, and make transfer to atate universities more widely available to people within that state. Cut the administrative bloat. Lower tuition, and cut out some of the fancy meal plans and other amenities. We had perfectly adequate food service with multiple choices at every meal, but I have been to college cafeterias fairly recently and they are over the top. I counted 31 choices at the cafeteria I visited with my friend's son and other campuses are the same!

I do think it's highly overpriced and we need to fix it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BlueFlorida

(1,532 posts)
18. Free college for all is a stupid idea
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:23 PM
Apr 2019

There has to be means testing and merit testing.

There is no point in giving free college to a billionaire's kids or to someone who gets solid D's in high school.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
19. After looking recently at what it costs today to go where I went in late 60s, I don't see how people
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:23 PM
Apr 2019

afford it, unless quite wealthy.

At least the school is still pretty good as far graduates getting salaries where one can pay off loans, but still . . . . . .

It appears that most states offer grants, etc., that help reduce the costs, but still . . . . . .

Not against "free" college, but I do worry that we keep using the same proposed future tax increases to pay for education, healthcare, shoring up Social Security and safety net, climate change, infrastructure, deficit/debt reduction, housing, jobs, etc. I don't think it is reasonable to talk about one particular need -- be it education or healthcare or whatever -- without considering all the other needs that future tax increases will have to cover.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(69,102 posts)
24. Free college without income limits is a disaster... community college can be be free in fact some
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:29 PM
Apr 2019

states have done so...let's address student debt. I don't think there is enough support for this either.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Maxheader

(4,378 posts)
25. If they can pass the entrance exams...ok...
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:31 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
28. That is a given ... I got into it w/a RWNJ who insisted 'free college'
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:43 PM
Apr 2019

meant that EVERYONE got to go to whatever college they wanted, no more 'qualifications', and was arguing to the end that THIS is was 'the liberals meant' when they said 'free college for all'.

They literally have been told this nonsense, and believe it ...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(69,102 posts)
39. And with some shitty schools in poor neighborhoods who do you think will pass the tests? You will
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 02:28 PM
Apr 2019

have poor people paying for the well to do to go to college. This is what happened in Georgia.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

PETRUS

(3,678 posts)
30. The social benefits of treating education (knowledge) as a public good seem obvious to me. nt
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 12:54 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
41. Not everyone is cut out to be a academic.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 02:37 PM
Apr 2019

I'm in favor of two years of free or low cost community college or trade school.

I don't have a problem with the word "free." I went to free public school. Nobody thought that meant taxes weren't paying. Everybody knows that's where your local tax dollars go, in fact many people are perfectly willing to pay higher taxes so their kids can get this "free" education.

The "how will you pay for it" discussion has to change to, "is it worth the cost?"

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DaGimpster

(130 posts)
45. I would favor it with a couple caveats right off the top of my head....
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 02:54 PM
Apr 2019

1.) Other posters have said this, but associates degrees without a doubt. So many high schoolers aren't ready for the full college experience too, and my kid being one of those I'm not afraid to admit! I know so many young men/women who didn't make it through, and are on the hook for a lot of money anyway.

2.) I would want to see a plan to make sure the trades are represented as viable options vs. pipeline kids to 4 year colleges.

Full disclosure: My daughter is currently in an auto mechanics associate degree program thats subsidized by a car dealer. You work 9 weeks, you school 9 weeks. Seems like a square deal.

Just handing over money to the system as it stands, I'm not sure I could support that. I'd like to see more transparency on where the money is going and what the outcomes were for those students.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

brooklynite

(95,645 posts)
47. "Free College for All" implies that there is college for all...
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 02:59 PM
Apr 2019

There aren't enough seats in Colleges and Universities for "all" to attend.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
49. Exactly
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 03:18 PM
Apr 2019

And obviously the wage premium stops applying ice everybody has a bachelors degree. Honestly we're seeing that already.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DaGimpster

(130 posts)
50. That's been the case in tech (where I work) for a while now.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 03:28 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
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