The Bernie movement is about shifting the political winds back left.

[DanTex]

The last 30/40 years have seen a drift to the right. During that time, Bernie stood by his principles. He gets smeared for not sponsoring enough bills, but that's because he didn't blow with the winds and sponsor centrist bills just to get his name on them. He held up the left flank, the whole time, even when it was lonely and upstream. And I think it's fucking great that he did that.

I suppose he could be criticized as "ineffective" for not being able to shift the whole political winds back to the left during all that time. Well, guess what. THAT'S WHAT HE'S DOING RIGHT NOW!

That's the whole point of the "political revolution." There have been shifts of the political winds like that before. FDR shifted them left. Reagan shifted them right. It happens.

People counting the votes for M4A are missing the point. Look at the excitement behind Bernie, especially the young people. Look at polls on policy, the stuff Bernie is for already has majority support, the nation is already there, just not the politicians. Look at the fact that nobody would even whisper "free college" or "single payer" 5 or 10 years ago.

And think about this. You know how pundits and everyone keeps saying, over and over, the US won't elect a self-described socialist. I mean, those people, they seem utterly positive about that. Now think about the day after America elects a self-described socialist as president. That's shifting the political winds!

[rzemanfl]

1. Some kinda wind. n/t

[brooklynite]

2. FDR and Reagan got elected first.

[DanTex]

3. Correct, that's why we should vote for him.

[guillaumeb]

4. Noam Chomsky often speaks of the acceptable limits of debate.

The GOP has been steadily moving what is called "the center" to the right since 1968.

The center in the US is actually the center right.

And as evidence of how that center has shifted, we regularly see posts insisting that Medicare for All, or the concept of the Green New Deal, or nearly any progressive position are all far too left and can never pass.

[Quixote1818]

8. They are popular, they just don't have the votes in Congress

Congress rarely does what helps the middle class.

[guillaumeb]

11. The votes are not there in part because the voters are not demanding the votes.

Unions did not arise because of the NLRB, which set forth certain rights, unions rose because workers organized and demanded their rights.

[andym]

15. Economically the center has move to the right, socially to the left

Gay marriage and civil rights are examples of the social leftwards trend.

Market economy-only attitudes are much more prevalent than the 60's.

[guillaumeb]

16. And that move is aided by the media framing

that treats free market style economic lunacy as reasonable.

[Sloumeau]

5. Picking a candidate farther to the left does not...

automatically move the country farther to the left.

[DanTex]

6. It does if that candidate wins the presidency on the back of an

invigorated movement with millions of grassroots supporters.

[BlueIdaho]

18. Unless the House and Senate choose not to go along.

Utopia is further away than it looks...

[DanTex]

21. Well, then the house and senate need to change too.

[BlueIdaho]

23. Got a magic wand?

Cuz that’s what it’s going to take. We can forget about the Republicans, they will just dig in their heels on any of the Senator’s ideas. So there’s almost half the Congress right there. As for the Democrats, there are plenty who just plain disagree with Sanders philosophies. There will be no utopian revolution in America. We my get there inch by inch, but the notion that everything will suddenly change through the force of Burnie’s charismatic leadership is just plain wrong.

[DanTex]

24. Even better, a motivated progressive majority.

Most Americans want the kinds of policies that Bernie advocates. We activate the majority, and the political winds shift. Not overnight, maybe, but in time. In 2008, we took the presidency, the house, and 60 in the senate. Because people were fired up. Obama made a mistake tacking towards the center, the movement behind him lost some steam.

It's not Bernie's charisma that matters, it's the fact that his policies are what the people want. And Bernie isn't going to be going to the center.

[BlueIdaho]

26. I hope you're right.

But almost no one is predicting anything like 60 seats in the Senate. If (and I mean if) we get a Senate majority, it will be small. 52 seats would be great - not all of whom will follow Bernie’s lead. Worse yet - the House Democrats will be cautious because many of their home districts are NOT filled far left voters. Heck even AOC a super supporter has said MfA is “aspirational” and probably won’t get done. At least not in the first four years.

I’m all for moving the country to the left, but it’s going to be like turning a battleship instead of a hydroplane.

[DanTex]

29. I'm not predicting 60 in the senate either. Impossible with the 2020 map.

I don't think things change overnight. But you have to admit, if Bernie gets elected, everyone's assumptions about what is "far left" and where the "center" is and what kind of politics are feasible in the US will be shattered. Bernie isn't actually "far left" with respect to what voters want. He's only "far left" compared to the people in congress, because the congress is well to the right of the electorate.

As I see it, electing Bernie would be the first step towards breaking down those forces in the status quo that are maintaining the government so far to the right of the voters. I mean, it's not a natural situation where most voters are in favor of medicare for all and free college, and yet we can't even get a public option through congress.

[BlueIdaho]

32. I agree

With plenty of what you say. But for the slow but steady move to the left to begin, we must first address campaign finance reform and the whole lobbyist fiasco in DC. I’m not sure term limits are even a bad idea. As I see it the only real flaw in your thinking is assuming that elected officials - on the right and left - actually listen to voters. Thanks to unlimited dark money and gerrymandering, they have been rendered untouchable for the most part.

Good luck and remember - Vote Blue No Matter Who.

[Thomas Hurt]

7. Bernie is a populist anti Trump, tit for tat escalation.

You ante a whackjob christofascist, we raise you a democratic socialist that we just know will piss off the right in this country.

By "we" I mean the US left not DU.

[BlueIdaho]

20. Thank You!

As far apart as Trump and Sanders may be ideologically, they both are populists tactically. That’s not good for our democracy.

[polichick]

9. True dat. Bernie is (and has been) clear-eyed about what our republic...

is supposed to be - would be - if people voted for candidates who believe in government of, by and for the people, instead of getting conned and fearful.

We move more to the right the more we allow ourselves to be conned and fearful.

[CalFione]

10. and when they fail to win in the GE against Trump,

they’ll be set back even further.


RBG will be replaced with another Gorsuch.

We won’t recognize our country in 2024.




Bernie fans need to realize this truth:

For every 18-29 year old that votes, there will be two retirees that vote.

And kids, your grandparents will NEVER vote for Bernie Sanders. That’s too big of an ask. They’ll vote for a Joe or Amy, even a Liz.

But not for Bernie.

He will lose, badly, and the overton window will move further right. Hell, we might never have another free and fair election if Trump gets a second term.


You are literally flirting with disaster, putting the very Democratic Republic we live in at risk. On a bad bet.

[octoberlib]

13. We won't have a Democracy.

[octoberlib]

12. The Bernie movement is about demagoguery, false promises and purity.

He will lose to Trump.

[W_HAMILTON]

14. All his movement has done so far is push the country further rightward...

...by having a sizable portion of his supporters refuse to support Democratic nominees and thus getting Republicans elected.

[DanTex]

19. How does that talking point still exist??? I don't get it!

Doesn't everyone know by now that more Bernie supporters in 2016 voted HRC than HRC supporters in 2008 voted Obama?

[CalFione]

25. Because Hillary's diehards in 2008 didn't cost us the election, because it wasn't close.

Bernie's diehards in 2016 did, because it was close enough to matter.

[lapucelle]

28. That "talking point" still exists because it is a fact supported by data.

Link to tweet

[W_HAMILTON]

38. Because it's true.

And Hillary supporters never shit on the Democratic Party the way Sanders and his people do. She is a Democrat through and through -- you call them """establishment,""" right? -- and worked her ass off to unite the party after she lost the nomination. Anyone not voting for Obama did so despite Hillary, in stark contrast with Sanders supporters, who were told "vote your conscience" in the days before the election while Trump's racism was waved away as simple economic anxiety, all the while Sanders now staffs his campaign with a bunch of Jill Stein voters.

Hillary didn't cost Obama the presidency, but Sanders and his supporters most certainly cost Hillary the presidency in an election decided by ~80,000 votes.

Don't even try it.

[DanTex]

39. And in the face of all evidence to the contrary, it continues....

Bernie did more rallies for HRC than HRC did for Obama.
Berners voted more for HRC than HRCers did for Obama.

This is not complicated. It's just wrong.

[W_HAMILTON]

40. Sanders did glorified book tour events on the Hillary campaign's dime.

He didn't even mention her damn name at some of these rallies. He just gave the same damn stump speech he gives everywhere he goes.

[Cha]

27. Exactly and we know they can't spin it.

[mcar]

17. ???

People counting the votes for M4A are missing the point.

So, we're supposed to not care how, or even if, he'd get his signature policy done? That makes no sense.

[Vivienne235729]

22. I can appreciate moving leftwards. But I don't think the horse y'all picked will get you there.

I don't think Bernie will be able to get anything done. People don't like him in congress.

[Moderateguy]

36. I do not think this is limited to Bernie

I think the policies he espouses are not popular with anyone who is not left of center. I do not think ANYONE running on the platform he is running on could turn these aspirational goals into law

[Vivienne235729]

37. I think Warren could have done it. But she has the gender obstacle to overcome.

Warren is liked by her peers. I don't think Bernie is and that's why I don't understand how he can promise all these things without really any way of delivering it.

[TheCowsCameHome]

30. ...regardless of what voters want.

[DanTex]

31. Bernie's platform is highly popular with voters, it polls very well across the board.

It's not voters, it's corporate lobbyists that are opposed to it. Which is the point.

[TheCowsCameHome]

33. The problem is, not enough voters to win the GE.

and aligning with that ISA bunch over the weekend? What a joke - A perfect made-to-order ad for the right.

[DanTex]

34. According to polls, yes, there are.

[TheCowsCameHome]

35. Polls don't vote.

He'll get shellacked in the GE.