I have this overpowering urge to stand up and yell "What the hell is wrong with people"

[Peacetrain]

Supporting an Independent and or a former republican mayor over a field of dedicated long term Democrats (and that includes Sen Warren.. she has been in the party quite a while)..


Seriously.. I am not calling them bad people.. but you have honest to God Democrats who put their names on the line as Democrats .. I just do not get it!.. Farther left in your political philosophy.. We have Senator Elizabeth Warren.. It just does not get any better for the lefter side of the party... A pragmatic liberal.. holy cow, we have a bunch for you.. VP Biden (who has actual experience in the executive office), Amy Klobuchar (long past time for a woman) and Pete Buttigieg.. (Up and coming young politician who can think so quickly on his feet)


Guys I just do not get it.. Sanders or Bloomberg either one.. I just don't..

[Blue_Tires]

1. Trumpworld has everything upside down

I can't make sense of it either.

I haven't been able to make sense of *ANYTHING* since 2016... And as someone who reveres wild-ass stuff like truth, fact, knowledge, expertise, competence, logic, rational thought, the rule of law, etc. my daily life has been a living HELL

[PatSeg]

9. Same here

Since 2016, the world is barely recognizable anymore, like we're living in an alternate universe. The republican party that we knew is now gone forever, but I didn't expect the same to happen to the Democratic party. If our next president isn't a real Democrat, what happens to the party?

[Grokenstein]

16. And some smell opportunity

They figure we're so desperate to defeat Don-Don that we'll embrace anybody. (Well...anybody with a pecker. Still NO GURLZ ALLOWD apparently, as the narrative-shaping media currently pretends Elizabeth Warren has ceased to exist.)

[johnthewoodworker]

29. I believe that if any candidate wants to gain traction they focus on the cat grabber and loss of

the rule of law. Forget policy statements. Focus on the enemy. Bloomberg does this more than the other candidates,perhaps that's the reason for his success.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

43. Exactly! Thump trump, not us!

[Kaiserguy]

41. We now live in a post truth world

thanks to the lying SOB in the White House and the new American Fascist Party formally the GOP. Truth does not matter to them or to a lot of our fellow citizens and facts no longer matter to much of our MSM. Facts do not make for a good story. Why report the facts when the lies bring in far more viewers. For those of us who still believe in truth and facts the USA today is not a nice place to live and as long as the AFP holds power it will keep on going down hill. .

[redstatebluegirl]

2. I have been thinking this for a while. You said it very well.

[customerserviceguy]

52. Agreed. n/t

[Peacetrain]

54. I still do not get it!.. but Joe had a great debate last night..

Warren was on fire, Klobuchar and Buttigieg ended up targeting each other too much.. but talk about passion.. the other two.. one was a punching bag and the other was repeating his stump speech over and over and over..

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Sanders attracts idealistic young people who actually believe

he'll be able to give them free college and free health care. Bloomberg attracts people who like the ass-kicking he's been giving Trump enough that they don't care about his darker side. I hope the nominee isn't either of them.

[redstatebluegirl]

5. Absolutely. I hear the "free college free healthcare" a lot from students.

I enjoy watching Bloomberg kick Trump around the school yard as well, but not enough to vote for him in the primary.

[redqueen]

6. That's overly simplistic. There is a lot of anti war sentiment in there as well.

I'm an older woman and I did not enjoy when we continued to bomb Iraq throughout the 90's. I also did not enjoy when we supported Bush's war based on lies that we all saw through.

This is not all about free things.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

14. Not all, no. But for younger people Bernie's (undeliverable) promises

are tremendously attractive because they do appeal to youthful idealism and the ideal of economic equality. Also, when you're young you tend to be not only idealistic but convinced of the absolute correctness of your cause, oblivious to nuance and gray areas, and eager to use the cause's jargon (I've been there and done that, a long time ago). Bernie, being a rigid ideologue who does not traffick in gray areas, attracts people who are looking for the certainty that their beliefs are correct and that their energy is enough to bring about the result they demand. But those of us who have been around a little longer and therefore have attended this rodeo before have been repeatedly whacked upside the head with the 2 x 4 of reality.

[redqueen]

18. Can't argue with that.

It really is unfortunate that people mostly only pay attention to politics every 4 years.

[bdamomma]

25. really unfortunate

the dumbing down of Americans has been going on for a long time. That's why the GOP show their total disdain for the people.

[Ingersollman]

21. "The

2x4 of reality" is what most of his supporters have no acquaintance with. That's why I voted for Elizabeth today. She's been whacked by it a few times herself, only to get back up and do what is right. She will make a great President.

[Roy Rolling]

23. Simplistic, yes

But not overly-simplistic. I like Bernie’s ability to get young voters involved, and I like Bloomberg’s constant jabs at Trump.

But I don’t know if I like them driving the bus as the Democratic nominee for POTUS. That’s a different skillset.

One that involves delivering on the promises they each make.

And we’ve learned from the Trump example, some hero-worshippers like being slapped in the face with broken promises.

So politicians must be held accountable to the pledges they make to supporters, ignoring policy failures—but still supporting the same politician— is hero worship.

[MasonDreams]

47. We must at least try. We only have 1024 months.

Science has seen the end, and it is near. I know that green new deal is big. But if you fight against it your a RADICAL INACTIVIST.

After they murdered RFK and MLK I too lost hope. So what? Get back up, dust yourself off, and face a NEW DAY.

Medicare for all will save 450 billion per anum. So says a new study from Yale.

Tobacco got killed, why can't we kill sugar and corn syrup? A few billion more

Hack defense in half, there's 350 billion.

Lead, follow, or get out of the way for
The times they are a changin'

[dem4decades]

13. Have they heard that there's no such thing as a free lunch?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

15. Most of them haven't had to buy their own lunches yet.

Bernie's young fans seem to be mostly middle-class white college students and tech guys.

[dem4decades]

28. Maybe they should review the McGovern election.

[redstatebluegirl]

46. Pretty much, they are really idealistic which I recognize :-).

I just see McGovern written all over this thing.

[ramen]

38. I still don't totally understand the idea that 'free' (it's not) health care or 'free' (it is not)

college is so outlandish.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_universal_health_care even just looking at the colors on this map it is pretty obvious..

https://www.edvisors.com/plan-for-college/money-saving-tips/colleges-with-free-tuition/countries-with-free-tuition/

I don't expect Sanders to flip a switch and these things magically appear, but I do definitely support both of those policies and think that we can get there with work, buy-in, and a leader who will go to bat for them.

[Poeraria]

4. Particularly now, with so much at stake.

We are letting the nation down.

[Brainstormy]

7. that urge is epidemic. n.t

[LakeArenal]

8. 🎶Money changes everything. 🎵

I believe Cindy Lauper?

[brush]

10. I'm not giving up on Joe yet, but if he fades out Bloomberg's financial clout is formidable.

[totodeinhere]

11. I am supporting Bernie because he is closest to me ideologically. I especially support his

M4A proposals. But I would gladly vote for Warren. I like her a lot too. But I cannot support Bloomberg. I consider him a wolf in sheep's clothing. I guess I would have to reluctantly vote for him in November if it comes to that, but I sure hope it doesn't.

[BlueJac]

12. From the title I thought you meant the GOP

I always thought Bernie should run as an Independent, but he always uses the Democatic Party for that, Bloomberg was Democrat before he ran as a Republican for mayor. Everyone knows Warren was Republican before she switched parties. BTW Reagan was a long time Democrat then ran as a Republican.

[Horizens]

17. Adding Salt to the Wound

20 state Democratic primaries are open allowing independents and Republicans to participate.
5 state Democratic primaries are open to Independents.

By the time I get to vote (April 28th) the race will already have been shaped (if not over). Independents and Republicans will have had more of a say than I, a lifelong Democrat.

The Republican party has a coordinated effort to get republican to vote for Sanders. No doubt, some republicans who hate trump will vote for Bloomberg. Non Democrats voting for candidates who aren't Democrats will,have more influence that I.

[leftieNanner]

24. Our primary election in Oregon isn't until May 19th!!!

So I will have very few options at that point. We used to live in California and the primary was very late. They changed it to March 3 this year, so our most populous state will have an impact at least.

[woundedkarma]

19. Bloomberg supported Snyder after the flint crisis.

If that isn't enough to make everyone throw up right now, I give up.

[spicysista]

20. Like most of his supporters, I'm not giving up on Joe.

If he's not at the top, I truly fear our defeat at the ballot. No just nationally, but also statewide and locally.

Bloomberg may win but it will most likely be because a number of moderate conservatives and embarrassed suburbanites pushed him over the top. That would mean everything else down ballot will move in the general direction of the republicans. I fear his being at the top of the ticket would also depress black turnout where it really matters. We saw what happened when just 1 percent fewer turned out (or were suppressed by Republican voter restrictions and shenanigans) last time in a few key states.

If BS is at the top, then all has already been lost. He's a superbly target rich environment for republicans. His past will be exploited and presented in the worst light possible. We will be trounced, everywhere.

What I've really noticed is the lack of grace in our primary. No one was willing step aside for the sake of making history, this time. People are treating pugnacious, old, angry white guys like it's inspiring. Opportunistic folks are using my party as a vehicle after pissing on it for decades. Others are too arrogant to even care about the real harm being done to our institutions, deriding it all as simply taking down the establishment.

The first time I voted, it was as a teenaged Gore supporter. I was hopeful and pretty excited about the future of my country. I continue to watch my grandmother's (and a few of her friends) upbeat spirit as she continues to pass out flyers to gotv, trying to maintain my hope.

[Lonestarblue]

22. Fear is driving Democrats.

We’re afraid of making the wrong choice and nominating someone that Trump will beat handily. At this stage, it’s just guessing at who could beat Trump. National polls do not help because the Electoral College is weighted toward red states. Some recent polls in Wisconsin and Michigan show very close matchups with Trump, I think all with the margin of error. If there’s cheating, like kicking voters off rolls at the last minute, or closing voting locations in minority communities, or throwing away absentee ballots, or manipulating vote counts, Trump can win. In Pennsylvania, all our candidates lose to Trump, but the only poll I could find is not very recent. I think Biden and Sanders were closest to Trump there.

We know that the blue states like California will vote for the Democratic candidate, but it’s the swing states that are worrisome and make it harder to choose the right person.

[MoonlitKnight]

40. Spot on

If not for the fear, I think Warren would be running away with this. I don’t think Biden or Klobuchar would have even run.

[UniteFightBack]

50. Biden has the biggest lead in the swing states. nt

[Sloumeau]

26. I know what you mean, Sanders versus Bloomberg is either...

We get the guy who has no hope of winning (because he's a Democratic Socialist, and they only seem to win general elections in the bluest of states of districts) who, if he wins, has about zero chance of getting his agenda passed because no Republican is going to vote for Medicare 4 All, and the odds of us getting a Senate Majority back in 2020 are slim).

--OR--

We get the guy who lots of people think has supported racist policies, who has seems to have a bunch of women bound by Nondisclosure agreements, who repeatedly put down the stuff Obama did, who has donated gobs of money to Republicans, and who seems like he may be buying his position in this election.

Honestly, if I could snap my fingers and Biden, Warren, Buttigieg, or Klobuchar, or Steyer were suddenly in the White House instead of Trump, I could definitely find a way to live with that.

I believe that Biden, Warren, Klobuchar, Buttigieg, and Steyer all have a better chance of beating Trump than Bernie Sanders or Bloomberg. None of them are Democratic Socialists. None of them seem to be trying to buy the election. None of them ever donated to Republicans or campaigned for Republicans. How the heck did we end up here? Richie Rich versus Super Left.

To Summarize:

Stop and Frisk Bloomberg vs Trump = ugh

Democratic Socialist Bernie Sanders vs Trump = ugh again.

[redwitch]

27. Every. Damn. Day. nt

[SoFlaDem]

30. I think we need to understand many of the Bernie supporters

Many of them are young people, many with college educations (and crippling debt as a result) who are stuck working at jobs that offer neither health insurance or retirement plans. Lots of them have no health insurance because they work and don't qualify for any Medicaid and can't afford even the worst of the exchange plans. They see the writing on the wall that their lives will not be anywhere as good as their parents', and they have watched this Country wage endless wars almost their entire lives.

They have not seen anybody significantly change their situation, and they are frustrated with the two party system, feeling like both favor the privileged, white kids who had parents who could put them through exclusive colleges and continue to support them while they worked for unpaid internships, leading to the jobs that do pay. They are living in a time when the see the rich keep getting richer and their situation remains the same. There are almost no unions left and it feels to them that nobody is out to protect them. They do understand critical nature of the income and wealth disparities, and that the climate crises is at a breaking point. They will be the ones to suffer. It's a scary time for them.

So along comes Bernie who offers real change to them. Student debt forgiveness, Green New Deal, the same health insurance that their parents/ grandparents have and maybe a real living wage that would allow them someday to maybe buy a house. They aren't wedded to the Democratic party because they feel all the politicians have let them down. They hear arguments on whether this is Obama's good economy or Trump's good economy while they have to decide if they can afford to go to the doctor or will just have to ride the flu out.

I know this doesn't represent all the Bernie supporters, but I think it represents more than the people on here realize. These are the good people who would have become Democrats in the past were it not for the continuing disparity which has been growing dramatically through the last three Presidencies. I would invite people on here to engage with the Bernie supporters and take a hard look at things from their perspective.

I don't know if we have enough time to change their minds this election, but I don't see a lot of young people flocking to the Party right now, at least not in the way they are flocking to Sanders. If we don't win them over eventually, including by accepting some of the things they want, I have to wonder about the party's future.

[AlexSFCA]

31. because the only thing that matters is removing trump

labels dont matter in this election, policy proposals are completely irrelevant, not even worth discussing. The best ability to beat trump - the only issue in 2020.

[sarisataka]

32. Very well put

It seems like there are those who are indicating they do not believe a Democrat can beat the person it has been claimed would lose to a ham sandwich.

It makes me wonder about the Democratic party. If they are right, to remain viable will the Democratic party have to move way left or become a kinder, gentler Republican party?

I reject both ideas and believe a Democrat can win but if not we really need to why, if so many agree with our positions, we cannot get them to vote.

[relayerbob]

33. Agreed 100%

[johnthewoodworker]

34. Seems like Clinton was a moderate, full- time democrat choice back in 2016 and that didn't pan out.

We have a nazi in the white house. We have a tax/economic structure that has screwed regular Americans for decades. We might need a radical. The cat grabber was an atypical republican in 2016.

[zentrum]

35. Bernie is an FDR Democrat.

Not alien at all.

[3catwoman3]

36. I ask this question at least...

...12 times a day. My forehead has callouses from banging it against the wall (not really, but it could).

[sdfernando]

37. I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this any more! /nt

[barbtries]

39. me either.

two old white men. take yer pick.

[wesuse23]

42. The Reality is most of us believe the country is lost anyways.

And that's the reality. Trump is not a cause of the diseases that affects American politics. He is simply a symptom of it. He's not just 1 Mule, he is one of many who will come. The next will be worse. We are for-destined to face them.

Why? Because of the sins of our ancestors. This nation was built upon systemic racism and it continues to perpetrate discrimination against all classes of minorities and poor individual. We have failed to atone for it for well over 200 years of our existence. The collapse of American greatness is foretold. Our greatness was something we never deserved. It is a fantasy created on the backs of hard working black, latino, and asian and men and women who have suffered eternally for it.

I am 31 years old, I brought my wife to this country as an immigrant believing this country was welcoming to immigrants. That was one of the biggest mistakes I have made in my life because at the root of it this country is not welcoming to foreigners or minorities. People seem to think Trump has created this feelings amongst the American public, but that's simply not the case. They were always there, they will only get worse. The next Trump will only be more competent and have more success.

The only way to save this country is drastically reform every single bit of it from the ground up, by any means possible. If we are not capable of doing that it is already lost to fascism, and the only solution will be outright civil war for the heart of this nation, which the United States people do not have the capacity to deal with.

I pray for a day that I do not have to envision America as the evil Nazi Germany of the world, but those days are long gone. Much like thousands of Jews and minorities fled Germany in the 1940s so will many millions of minorities be forced to flee America unless we can make the radical decisions required to completely reform this country from the ground up and destroy the entrenching fascism that is found at every level of government.

Maybe that's not possible, if it is not possible, if someone like Bernie who hopes to do that can not do that, we have already lost. America is already too far gone and must perish for goodness to survive. Just like Nazi Germany was destroyed piece by piece by the allied powers so the world must take it upon themselves to destroy America and its axis of fascist evil. There is no two ways about. As the bible says, since you are neither hot nor cold, you are lukewarm. I spit you out of my mouth.

[coti]

49. It's not lost at all. That is a narrow, distorted, selfish

and ultimately self-defeating perspective. I had the opportunity to vote to delete your post but decided against it. Your ideas need to be responded to and corrected, not censored.

Democracy is a PROJECT, not an end-result. It is a set of ideals that can never be perfectly implemented. Those ideals require belief, sacrifice and real work.

Do not turn against your fellow Americans, and don't poison the well. We ALL have to continue working to make this a better place, and, yes, we WILL get through this.

[ehrnst]

51. Well, aren't we a little ray of sunshine?

[AllaN01Bear]

44. thank u, thank u, thank you. ding ding ding.

ive been itching to also say , we as dems , need to calm down, discuss the issues and select someone who can beat that thing in the white house in november . dems unite and go dems .

[bucolic_frolic]

45. Bloomberg is only there to defeat Trump and as a backup

The party is showcasing everyone. It's like hockey where the refs say every night we called 'em square and every team had a chance to win. There is no such thing as perfect. At the end of the day, voters will find the meat and potatoes. The frenetic posers will be also-rans ... not that they didn't run a good race.

[trof]

48. Right there with ya' Peace.

[progressoid]

53. Go Tulsi!!!