Crossing off Pete

[squirecam]

When Pete tried the Obama “be above” and inspiring tact, it was working. Tonight he was condescending, interrupting others and acting like he was perfect and that Bloomberg and Bernie were polarizing. Not to mention the sexism, which was aided by the moderators, and the unfair questions which Warren pointed out.

I thought he did himself no favors tonight.

[HerbChestnut]

1. Agreed.

[apcalc]

2. Agree totally.

[Hoyt]

3. Agree completely. I don't think he's seasoned enough for 2020.

[Big Blue Marble]

13. I never have thought he was ready.

He is smart, and could be a great leader in 20 years, but not now.

[TomSlick]

4. I was disappointed at the President of Mexico crap.

Pete is smarter than that.

[riversedge]

52. Mayor Pete came across petty with that Mexico crap

[Big Blue Marble]

5. I lost the respect that I had for him.

He was condescending and it was not a good look.

[Raine]

6. Totally agree nt

[dsc]

7. He didn't act perfect

he acted honest, unlike your candidate. Klobuchar out right lied about her support of Trump judges. No she didn't oppose 2/3 of them, that is a total, utter, complete lie. She should try being honest for a change. And her treatment of the questioner that dared point out her utter ignorance of Mexico was beneath contempt. She just stiffed that woman in terms of her answer.

[Laelth]

49. Just so.

I think Amy was the big loser tonight.

-Laelth

[Prosper]

62. Amy was caught off guard by Pete and it put her in such a defensive mood she couldn't respond.

I’ve drawn blanks on people in conversations. If she would have explained the blip she would have been okay. It just caught her so off guard that she overlooked the simple explanation.

[Laelth]

68. I suspect you are right. n/t

-Laelth

[melman]

8. Definitely

[Frasier Balzov]

9. He's Amy's VP running mate.

It's all coming together!

[question everything]

26. No. At least, not yet. Not a heart beat away.. not ready for prime time

Maybe when is over 40.

[Frasier Balzov]

39. He's too smart and articulate not to grab him now.

The seasoning will happen in office.

[Laelth]

50. Amy wouldn't even look at Pete after the debate.

She was mad, and her body language showed it.

-Laelth

[question everything]

58. So she is human and shows emotion. As opposed to being a robot?

[Capt. America]

10. I don't think its a good look for any of the candidates tonight going after each other so harshly.

[GanjaGrower]

11. I didn't care for the attacks

But I still have him as my second choice

[VarryOn]

12. I bet most of have run across a "Peter" in or school days or career...

My guess he knew at a young age that he would run someday, and everything he's done has bee. calculated and was documented.

[Generic Brad]

14. If Amy can't handle Pete, she can't handle Trump

Unfair or not, the mayor of South Bend rattled her so strongly I can’t see how she recovers.

[squirecam]

17. If she isn't interrupted

And talked over by the moderators, she would be fine.

I would have told The mods to stop, because I’m reclaiming my time.

[Generic Brad]

22. And Trump would be polite?

She’s not ready for prime time.

[squirecam]

23. More than Pete is.

Nt

[Sparkly]

28. Define "handle."

Should she have been more angry, or less angry?

More offended, or less offended?

More defensive of her record, or less defensive of her record?

Should she not be exasperated by repeated interruptions making further accusations while she is answering the first ones?

If you're imagining the debates, it does not matter. Gore and Kerry won the debates against Bush hands down. Clinton won against Trump, no question. Demeanor, facts, dignity and composure do not matter. What DOES need to happen are rules -- or no debates. Trump's mic has to be CUT. No interruptions, no bullying, and maybe no debates at all.

This is not the basis on which we should choose a president.

[TreadSoftly]

45. Amen, Sparkly! n/t

[Lulu KC]

15. Totally agree

He moved not quite all the way to the bottom of my list, but darn close. Too bad.

[DanTex]

16. I agree. The way he went after Amy was low.

[Cosmocat]

43. She got unnerved when anyone went after her

Not sure why someone, in a debate, is somehow dinged for seeing someone's weak underbelly and working it.

[USALiberal]

18. I crossed off Amy. Nt

[Democrats Ascendant]

21. Same

Not impressed.

[question everything]

29. tit for tat? how appropriate

[AngelicaHora]

34. Yeah this was a terrible night for her

Warren's back to being my number two. Pete did great. He didn't lie about the others like Sanders, Warren and Klobuchar keep doing.

[davs797]

19. I Agree

Pete is no longer a choice I want to make. He doesn’t seem sincere. I think he would take any position that he personally would benefit from. The only moderate I really don’t mind supporting is now Biden.

[CalFione]

20. Well.... Bloomberg and Bernie *ARE* polarizing.

He was definitely right about that.

[W_HAMILTON]

24. I don't know why everyone is so down on Buttigieg.

Have you all watched the past few debates? Klobuchar has been taking cheap shot after cheap shot on the guy. He finally returned fire -- all honest and factual criticisms, I believe -- and she went into a rage and now everyone is blaming him? I just don't get it. If she can't handle the criticism, she shouldn't have been criticizing him and others for the past few debates. She finally got a little bit of spotlight with her performance in New Hampshire and now some candidates are rightfully attacking back, especially Buttigieg, who -- once again -- was regularly attacked by her and probably was prevented from winning New Hampshire because of it and her subsequent post-debate rise.

[squirecam]

27. She was raging?

She is interrupted after 20 seconds, hit with sexism and unfair attacks, as Warren pointed out. Id be raging too. Except I’d get away with it because I’m male.

[W_HAMILTON]

36. Yes, I would say that was raging, especially given that she normally projects...

...a generally calm and happy-go-lucky midwestern demeanor.

She was visibly angry.

[Sparkly]

33. That was a "rage?"

OMG -- What a double standard.

[W_HAMILTON]

41. What double standard?

She was visibly angry, which was in stark contrast to the "Midwest nice" image she usually projects. And her retorts were lacking and more condescending that Buttigieg's actual factual criticisms (e.g., her "sorry we can't be as perfect as you" or whatever comment).

[2naSalit]

51. So because she's from MN she has to present as a Stepford wife 24/7?

[cwydro]

64. "Wife" being the key word here.

Women dare not show anger.

[frazzled]

35. Totally agree

If anyone went down three rungs on my list tonight it was Klobuchar. She can dish it out but she sure can’t take it. Displaying that kind of anger was a red flag for me. Confirmed some of the stuff I’d heard said, but didn’t take seriously. She has a kind of mean streak, and is overly defensive. I could envision a very dysfunctional White House.

I’m looking for a steady hand after e last 3 years of crazy pants.

[Raine]

38. She didn't go into "a rage "

[W_HAMILTON]

42. It's subjective, but she most certainly lost her cool...

...and was visibly angry at Buttigieg's presumably factual criticisms of her. She lost the calm composure she has projected throughout these debates. If it doesn't rise to your personal definition of "rage," so be it, but it did to mine.

[question everything]

25. A small town mayor who can just look at specific facts, vs. a seasoned, responsible senator

who looks at the whole picture.

As I posted earlier, the turtle would not fill judicial offices by candidates presented by Obama and yet these offices have to be filled. Cut one's nose to spite... etc.

And, what is more important, knowing the name of the Mexican president or passing the new NAFTA?

[liskddksil]

30. If this Beto supporter can get over it you can too nt

[Raine]

31. He came off as quarrelsome

and it didn't come off well.

[madaboutharry]

32. This thread is ridiculous.

You weren’t for Pete before so saying you’re “crossing him off” is disingenuous.

[Sparkly]

37. He was #3 on my list after recent drop-outs from the race.

The field is narrowing.

[SunSeeker]

53. +1

[Celerity]

66. [phone]

see my post below

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287544485#post65

[krissey]

40. I didn't hear about sexism by moderators that Warren called out.

Can you give a brief description please? And am thrilled Warren calls out sexism.

[unitedwethrive]

44. Funny how we all see things differently. I thought he was a pushover in the last debate

which is likely why Amy rose in the polls. This time he stood his own, and rose to the top of my rankings.

[Cosmocat]

46. It was a debate

EW railed Bloomberg.

Biden took repeated shots at Bernie.

Bernie took shots at pretty much everyone.

AK took shots at Pete in past debates.

But Pete is a bad guy for seeing AKs weak chin and working it?

[Joinfortmill]

47. Agree.

Not Buttegieg's best night.

[ecstatic]

48. I disagree with the part about "acting like he was perfect"

I wrote off Pete some time ago, but it's not fair for others to project their insecurities onto him. Pete never said he was perfect. That was Amy attacking him based on her opinion of him being perfect.

It's like when someone is always asking you for technical help but at the same time accuses you of thinking you're smarter than everyone else. No, that's just your issue/insecurity.

[musicblind]

54. I thought Pete did great.

I felt he was well spoken and appropriately combative.

I did not find him condescending. I feel like people wouldn't be saying that if Pete were a decade older. It almost feels ageist.

[SunSeeker]

60. +1

[RhodeIslandOne]

55. The problem with these threads....

....is that no one who already disliked the guy is going to disagree and the people who support him are never going to concede he didn't have a great night.

[musicblind]

57. You're right, and I like both Amy and Pete.

I thought Pete had a good night. I liked his more combative time.

Amy did better in the New Hampshire, but nothing negatively affected my opinion of her. Her post debate interview on CNN was excellent, and she had my favorite closing statement.

[DarthDem]

56. Yup

I think he's a nice, well-spoken guy who served our country honorably. But let's be serious. He was the mayor of a small college town in the middle of ruby Indiana. He isn't ready and wouldn't win. He should try unseating one of Indiana's Republican senators first. And yes, he was condescending and haughty tonight. It didn't play well.

[SunSeeker]

59. After tonight, I'm crossing off Amy.

Pete landed valid criticisms of Klobuchar's voting record, and she didn't handle it well, resorting to unfair sarcasm ("we can't all be perfect like you" ). Pete never claimed he's "perfect." He challenged her record. She did a crappy job of defending it.

Tonight's winners were Elizabeth, Biden and Pete. They wil remain on my list.

[ForEverGlades]

61. Not Mayor Pete

Probably a nice guy and all, but something's just off.
Maybe a little too "Manchurian Candidate" ish to me.
He's a much better option than Bloomie will ever be though.

[MFM008]

63. i did not like the fighting between Pete

and Amy,
they all needed to do more maggot bashing.

[Celerity]

65. the overall reaction from the media shows this to be a poor take, and I really have to laugh

at Sanders supporters now magically crossing Pete off some list, when the Sanders campaign's surrogates and actual core like Sirota and Turner and Bri and then the social media supporters and hard left sites (the despicable Clinton hating Nathan J. Robinson's Current Affairs rag and the actual socialist and Democratic Party-hating Jacobin for example) and channels (TYT anyone?) have been slurring and slandering him and Biden and Warren for well nigh a full year now.

Examples you say?

This following article backs up what I have been saying since spring 2019. The whole Sirota/JD/TYT/DSA/BoBer crowd has been camping down in South Bend for 12 months or so, trying to dig up dirt and smear Pete. Other examples are the bogus 'Zuckerberg is running Buttigieg's campaign' bollocks (that Zephyr Teachout, for an example of an official Sanders surrogate doing this shite, had to retract this rot) and tosh like the misquote from the LA Times reporter about Pete and Obama that is still being pawned off as an actual thing by the usual suspects in the far left social media, and the homophobic (raging in the 2nd one's case) South Bend councilmen Oliver Davis and Henry Davis Jr. (no relation) who have been smearing Pete for years and are welcomed with full bro-vado in certain circles in the social media sewers and by some far left channels.



'Racist' TYT reporter continues smear campaign against Buttigieg

October 25, 2019

https://orderofthecoif.wordpress.com/2019/10/25/racist-tyt-reporter-continues-smear-campaign-against-buttigieg/

The Young Turks today published the latest in a series of articles about Pete Buttigieg that they’ve characterised as “investigative reporting”. As will be shown in this article, these articles by Jonathan Larsen constitute nothing less than a sustained smear campaign that breaks all the basic rules of good, objective journalism. Mr Larsen consistently relies upon anonymous sources with suspect motivations, and often misleads his readers about the nature of documents on which he purports to rely.

The articles have also consistently pressed the most slanted and unfavourable interpretation against Mr Buttigieg, and relied substantially on innuendo and conspiracy theory dressed up as searching questions. The articles have sought to create an impression that Mr Buttigieg is engaging in racist policies or corrupt conduct, while failing to establish corroborated facts that actually support such an interpretation. This article will also set out Mr Larsen has questions to answer about his own conduct, which has been alleged in open court to include racist bullying, harassment and racial discrimination. Cenk Uygur should explain why a reporter credibly accused of racist conduct is allowed to continue on his staff while the issue remains unresolved.

Secret Tapes

The matter begins in January 2012 when Mr Buttigieg commenced his first term as Mayor of South Bend. Upon taking up a mayoralty, an Indiana mayor will determine who their chief of police shall be. The incumbent is not guaranteed to be appointed to continue under the new mayor. The incumbent chief in South Bend was Chief Darryl Boykins, an African-American police officer who enjoyed the confidence and respect of the community. Mr Buttigieg interviewed three candidates from the South Bend Police Department; Chief Boykins and division chiefs Steve Richmond and Tim Corbett. Mayor Buttigieg decided, based on his performance as chief and his good relations with the community, to reappoint Chief Boykins.

It has been alleged that six days after Mayor Buttigieg took office, on 6th January, 2012, Chief Boykins called division chief Richmond into his office and, “berated him for having been disloyal to him by seeking his job and for being a ‘backstabber'”. Chief Boykins also told Richmond that he had been wiretapping his and other senior officers phone lines, and that “he would fire anyone he determined to be disloyal”. It is also said that on 17th January, Richmond spoke to Karen DePaepe, SBPD Director of Communications, and asked her whether it was true that his line had been tapped. DePaepe responded that the chief requested a line tap “the day he promoted you to division chief”.

Richmond and other officers whose phone lines it transpired had been tapped by DePaepe at the request of the chief since 2010, went to the US Attorney for the Northern District of Indiana, a Democrat Mr David Capp (who was incidentally later fired by Donald Trump), to complain about the taps which they interpreted to be illegal breaches of their constitutional 4th amendment rights. The FBI commenced an investigation of Chief Boykins, and Mayor Buttigieg was informed. Prior to this the mayor was unaware of the existence of the tapes. The US Attorney informed the mayor that if Chief Boykins was quietly dispensed with as head of the SBPD, they would agree not to press charges.

snip

a lot more at the link, all documented

[madaboutharry]

67. Thank you for the post.

[Duppers]

69. I agree. Despite the smile, he was rude.

He did not explain the full truth when hitting Amy and I now hate him for that.