Bernie is wrong in his assessment of why we don't have single payer

[certainot]

Last edited Thu Feb 20, 2020, 01:20 AM - Edit history (1)

They all are actually, but he said it there: that big pharma money is buying politicians. Democracy was designed to get that money out of politics.

Yeah it does, but not to the degree to which it can push the compromises from single payer to public option to "Obamacare" and then get these Republican shits and Trump elected to delete it.

Why big pharma (etc) can beat democracy should be the issue.

The deregulation of money in politics is a direct result of the continued ignorance and stupidity by Dems and the 'Left' of ignoring why Rush Limbaugh got a medal at the last SOTU.

If big pharma would pay $1000/hr for 15hrs/day of radio infomercials then 1200 radio stations, all following the Limbaugh lead as policed by screaming dittoheads listening to 600 radio stations, would cost them almost $5 BIL/yr - BUT IT"S FREE!

30 years of it attacking single payer as communism, lying about Canadians waiting for years for life-saving surgery, and European doctors who can't afford cars. Then the incredible universe-altering 'lie' that president Obama told about keeping your old plan!

It continues to be the biggest political mistake in history for Democrats to keep ignoring the giant pile of shit under the Capitol Dome rugs.

No Bernie, it's not big pharma. Just stop ignoring talk radio, destroy the talk radio monopoly, and stop letting a few hundred think tank-scripted asshole radio blowhards elect sack-of-shit Republican politicians in 40 states with 80 senators.

BTW I'll vote enthusiastically for Bernie and any Democrat in the general.

And it is ridiculous for the 'Left' to keep letting those ignorant liars on the radio attack him constantly, enabling twits like Chris Mathews and Chuck Todd and the other corporate 'pundits' echo the RW radio bullshit that Bernie and Elizabeth are 'too far left' bullshit and decide for a lot of Americans who is and isn't acceptable in the White House.

[denem]

1. +1

[Hoyt]

2. It's telling that he keeps saying for profit healthcare made $100 Billion last year.

Heck, if we got rid of three times that, it wouldn’t cover one month of MFA annually. We have to get profit out, but it ain’t gonna happen tomorrow.

[karynnj]

3. Here is a simpler less insidious reason why the US does not have single payer

The reason is history.

We are the only country where the government encouraged businesses to offer health insurance as a benefit by giving tax advantages. Unions made getting that a goal. At its height, a large enough percent of people had employer provided health care that it was mostly the poor and old who did not have insurance that way. The solution Medicare and Medicaid.

There are many people who fear losing what they have. What is needed is a transition. I think a possible one would be ACA with the problems fixed and a public option. Then if companies were allowed to subsidize workers on the exchange. Just as lower income people get a subsidy to pay for their chosen plan, there could be a way to add in a company subsidy. The companies could be allowed the same way of accounting for that expense as they would if they offered insurance directly.

[certainot]

5. my point is it really doesn't matter what kind of transition there is - all

the obstruction is based on rw talking points that can only be established with regular widespread unchallenged repetition that only RW radio can do

every national debate on any major issue can be distorted and derailed with think tank scripted bullshit spewed for weeks, months, years from 1500 UNCHALLENGED radio stations

how does obama's nuclear outrageous 'broken promise' - "he said you could choose your doctor!!!!" , and "they couldn't even get the website to work on time!!!" compare with what we have now?

the difference is 1500 coordinated, increasingly russian, radio stations, impacting everything said at that debate without ever getting a mention ANYWHERE ANYTIME, with candidates like Klobuchar and Buttigieg heavily influenced by years of those memes dominating their states and Biden cowed by 30 years of it.

[ancianita]

4. Sanders was right. Big Pharma is THE biggest lobby in DC. They in fact DID threaten war on

Obama by refusing to supply the military and every other agency if they didn't get left alone prior to drawing up the ACA. Big Pharma hides behind the politics of healthcare insurance corporations and doesn't want to look evil. But they are. Obama had to capitulate.

Talk about media? They're transfixed by the symptoms and not the biggest supplanter of medical treatment models -- Big Pharma. Drug all diseases away.

50 ads nightly on TV from drug companies is media enough propaganda. All of America sees Big Pharma every night in prime time. 365 days a year.

So yeah. It IS Big Pharma.

You're passionate but mistaken.

[certainot]

6. we still had enough of a democracy that money still needed constituents.

there were elections to elect these sos republicans to pass this crap and obstruct reforms and attack, marginalize, and defeat dem politicians who would do the right thing.

warren sanders AOC etc get trashed constantly on 1500 radio stations and no one gets their back. their supporters have no clue. for 30 years.

who has the house and senate is the question and until democrats stop ignoring talk radio and keep blaming symptoms we are fucked

money can buy politicians but if they can't get votes they can't do squat for big pharma. yeah it helps but their whole case is based on lies. what those teabags were screaming at town halls flew out of limbaugh's butt first, some of it from years and years ago, sent to him from the think tanks.

those are made-to-order constituencies and they are mostly the same people over and over, for global warming and gun control and immigration and public ed etc - a minority largely captive audience that gets turned into a 50% composed of a lot of secondary and tertiary audience because democrats and the left ignore talk radio and those apathetic and too-busy audience never see the lies challenged.

[ancianita]

7. Not at that time. The way it went down was Big Pharma literally threatened this government.

You need to read Sheldon Whitehouse's Captured (2017)to see how long and thoroughly this corporate capture has really gone on. He covers the last 15 years.

What you're talking about has been written in many books; it's been sorted out and discussed here for years and years, so I'll mention a few points for now.

Poor people only have radio, and so they're vulnerable to propaganda. Right wing Sinclair networks literally OWN 15 major media networks across the non-urban areas. THAT'S what flies fast -- bad news and hatemongering.

It's not the fault of good people and their government that freedom is so misused. You're wanting 1st Amendment rights to be fought constantly, when there's also the third largest country on the planet to actually run in a thousand other ways.

People will believe what they're exposed to the most, and what they want to believe. And most believers, in my view, tend toward irrational biases. Just my opinion.

Because you see the problem, the next question is: now what?

[certainot]

8. whitehouse in one of the hearings i can't remember actually referenced the process by

which the RW nurtured and pushed ridiculous legal cases up the supremes - that is what only talk radio can do with unchallenged repetition - and he could have said it but had no clue because dems and the left are not aware of it

rw radio dominates 40 or so states with 80 senators. it's not 'free speech' and market demand - it's a well subsidized and protected monopoly

"poor people only have radio" is not the case. there are large areas of 40 states with 80 senators with no alts for politics if you dont get satellite. you also have huge parts of the us where no one has to do shit about wifi - turn on the radio for news, weather, sports etc.

the recent book by brian rosenwald- "talk radio's america. how an industry took over a political party that took over the united states" gets to how dependent the GOP is on rw radio - and most of the believers would not it they saw it being challenged and corrected directly

the solution is anything that get's the ad industry to realize that with artificial intelligence all their clients can now be easily associated with the hate and racism and ignorance on those shows they support

[ancianita]

9. Right. Research proves that AI promotes negative emotion.

But your solution won't happen. Why? It's profitable. No new AI's are yet developed to make money any other way.

Hate makes money. Limbaugh knew it. Hate radio knew it. AI programming doesn't have to work that way, but even the human brain works that way.

Hate raises cortisol, which is the addictive chemical of fight arousal, common in PTSD. One only has to witness hate to have that experience. When people are addicted to that and don't want to stop listening, radio profits, so it's hard to get either of them to stop that cycle.

So the idea of holding billionaires accountable in courts for "harm" they do has been tried. But there are new legal angles, I'm sure. Limbaugh never got taken to court over any mass murderer who said the radio or TV or music made them do what they did. Limbaugh did lose sponsors, as have others. I think if you type in how to end hate radio in the DU search box, you'll come across some threads about that.

There's a long Fresh Air talk about the history of voice and content on the radio, and how Lowell Thomas set the tone for neutral content and voice delivery back in 1925.

Hate radio came after the end of the Fairness Doctrine, using much of the same preachy tone as christian radio at the time. And until 1A is eliminated, this stuff will continue. People in a free country are free to hate. Other free countries do have practices that minimize that, and we need to look more closely at how they do it.

Thanks for the book reference. I'll check it out.

[certainot]

10. AI means hate radio can finally be easily and cheaply digitized, monitored, read, studied

it means as soon as the left/dems want it is no longer invisible to the analysts in politics and media.

maybe they will finally start polling for it. all of this deep state defense of trump flew out of limbaugh's ass starting around the time of the first big women's march around inauguration. probably fed to him by the russians, like "climategate" in 2009. a continuation of years of attacks on clinton. democrats had /have no clue.

recent commercialization of AI transcription advances means the ad industry has to anticipate stoprush x 100 and preemptively protect their clients. as soon as any significant activism vs hate radio appears the industry will have to start asking clients if they REALLY want to be associated with the hate, GW denial, racism, etc

hate radio succeeded the last 30 years because the right built a monopoly and protected it, with liberals completely ignoring it. not because of market demand for the hate and ignorance in 40 states with 80 senators demanded it

they eliminated all real competition and allowed only token competition and democrats have completely ignored it.

russia recognized the success of a classic hundred year old propaganda operation and started horning in at least 10 years ago. that is why we have trump and why he even got close to the white house.

the ad industry wants the ears those stations want. all dems/left have to do to push the ad industry to force conversion of many of those radio stations off hate radio programming is get their attention it's coming.

ironically if limbaugh can't continue soon it will probably start to happen anyway through no fault of democrats, by accident, because the whole thing was based on multiplying the limbaugh model and his 'genius' for creative lying, denial, and rationalization

tragically, we've lost 30 years on global warming because of ignorance of it

[ancianita]

12. You are correct. Bad faith politics and wealth hoarding in stealth will drag a free country down.

We lost the past 20 years through judicial cheating, since the players were not addicted radio/TV audience, just ideologically reactionary, and untrusting of the People to decided their best interests.

[Gothmog]

11. Former Nevada Sen. Harry Reid says 'not a chance in hell' Medicare for All would pass

Link to tweet

But Reid, who served as a Democrat in the U.S. Senate for 30 years, including as majority leader for eight years, said it didn't matter which candidate comes out in support of Sanders' signature health care plan: "I’m against it."

"It’s impractical ... There’s not a chance in hell it would pass," he told ABC News Political Director Rick Klein, instead advocating for strengthening the Affordable Care Act -- or Obamacare -- and looking to pass a public option.

There are not enough Democratic votes to get this concept passed in the real world

Link to tweet