Sanders can pass almost none of his agenda, it's just talk

[Alhena]

I thought he might be able to at least ban fracking on federal lands by executive order, but apparently not:

https://www.woodmac.com/news/opinion/could-a-democratic-us-president-ban-fracking/

It is well known that Sanders has passed next to no legislation during his time in the Senate, it looks like it will be no different if he's president.

Maybe we should let concerned voters know this fact if Sanders becomes the nominee. I just want to get rid of Trump, and if Sanders is the party's nominee than so be it.

[Mosby]

1. Bloomberg mentioned that in the debate.

In fact he didn't limit his comment to just sanders.

He said all the candidates were promising things they couldn't deliver on.

[SoFlaDem]

2. Understand why his supporters like his talk

Many of them are young people, many with college educations (and crippling debt as a result) who are stuck working at jobs that offer neither health insurance or retirement plans. Lots of them have no health insurance because they work and don't qualify for any Medicaid and can't afford even the worst of the exchange plans. They see the writing on the wall that their lives will not be anywhere as good as their parents', and they have watched this Country wage endless wars almost their entire lives.

They have not seen anybody significantly change their situation, and they are frustrated with the two party system, feeling like both favor the privileged, white kids who had parents who could put them through exclusive colleges and continue to support them while they worked for unpaid internships, leading to the jobs that do pay. They are living in a time when the see the rich keep getting richer and their situation remains the same. There are almost no unions left and it feels to them that nobody is out to protect them. They do understand critical nature of the income and wealth disparities, and that the climate crises is at a breaking point. They will be the ones to suffer. It's a scary time for them.

So along comes Bernie who talks about real change. Student debt forgiveness, Green New Deal, the same health insurance that their parents/ grandparents have and maybe a real living wage that would allow them someday to maybe buy a house. They aren't wedded to the Democratic party because they feel all the politicians have let them down. They hear arguments on whether this is Obama's good economy or Trump's good economy while they have to decide if they can afford to go to the doctor or will just have to ride the flu out.

I know this doesn't represent all the Bernie supporters, but I think it represents more than the people on here realize. These are the good people who would have become Democrats in the past were it not for the continuing disparity which has been growing dramatically through the last three Presidencies. I would invite people on here to engage with the Bernie supporters and take a hard look at things from their perspective.

I don't know if we have enough time to change their minds this election, but I don't see a lot of young people flocking to the Party right now, at least not in the way they are flocking to Sanders. If we don't win them over eventually, including by accepting some of the things they want, I have to wonder about the party's future.

[Moderateguy]

5. And I fear these young people are headed for voter apathy for the rest of their lives...

If Bernie is not nominated, they will stop voting
If Bernie loses the GE, they will never vote again
If Bernie is elected and cannot deliver what they want, they will become disillusioned and never vote again

We are in a bad situation in regards to these young people-- all we have to decide is are we going to go down with them or salvage what we can

[SoFlaDem]

12. If they continue to feel alienated, that may be true.

We raised these kids, why are we constantly bashing their political aspirations? Once we boomers die off, the Country will probably move to the left. We can at least start the discussion of how to get them what they deserve. Desegregation didn't seem practical at first, neither did women's suffrage. The battle starts long before the end of the war and I believe if we try harder to show these young people that we will fight for what they believe in, then I think your prediction would be wrong.

[Moderateguy]

13. The problem here is they think electing Sanders is the end of the war

and not the start of it...

[SoFlaDem]

18. Do you really know that?

Maybe not if they feel like they got a fair shake and the party is at least listening to them rather than just panicking over the word "socialism."

[kevink077]

59. It sounds cold- but

Dems need to write off a lot of these voters. They will never ever be happy, they do not know how govt works. (House and senate). And they are badly damaging the Democratic Party. Obama got biggest possible change in healthcare in decades, and that was not good enough for them so to thank Obama they all sat out in 2010. I hope the adults can take control of the party. Pray for a brokered convention and the superdelegates kicking sanders to the curve.

[oregonjen]

7. Thank you!

Instead of bashing, you wrote a perfect explanation of why Bernie has so much support with the younger generation. I’m watching my kids go through exactly what you have written. Buying a house while working less than 40 hours a week with $16 an hour is not going to happen. Health insurance? Too expensive! Something has got to give. We need to force corporations to pay their taxes, to help rebuild our infrastructure while we lessen the burden on the rest of the population.

[Happy Hoosier]

8. Desperation is never good policy, though.

I mean, I get that they like those ideas. But how do they get implemented? At what point does reality beat out wishful thinking?

We can move towards all those policies. But for now, they are just empty promises.

And what happens if he gets elected?

He won't be able to pass his programs. And his lack of bridge building and his apparent allergy to compromise could mean NOTHING happens. Do all these ardent young folks just decide nothing makes a difference and walk away again?

There are approaches that can work. Being a gadfly with an all or nothing approach isn;t one of them, IMO.

[SoFlaDem]

14. We raised them

We need to understand where they are coming from rather than bashing them. If my son saw this website, frankly he would be horrified and only made more ardently resistant to moderation. Is the anti-Bernie supporter bashing, the poo-pooing of their ideas merely motivated by practicality on here? I doubt it when I see the acrimony and dismissive attitudes.

[Happy Hoosier]

17. I'm not bashing them, but I am telling them they are wrong here.

If I am "dismissive" it is because the whole Bernie narrative one of cock-eyed naivete. Political change in this country does not happen the way Bernie is promising it. And young people need to know that. They need to understand how the system works and what the political process will allow. The electoral college, gerrymandering in the states, and the structure of the Senate are all factors that Sanders ignores, and he convinces his desperate followers to ignore them too. They want to hear their problem scan be fixed now, and Bernie is happy to tell them they can be.

But they can't. The process to change things will be slow. And it will require persistence. And it will be battle for inches, not miles. The the Berners don't want to hear that.

[SoFlaDem]

20. Why can't we advocate for Medicare for All?

Even if we don't get it? At least they will know we are on their side and frankly that is not the message they are getting.

[Happy Hoosier]

24. It's one thing to set a single payer system as a goal...

It's another to condemn more incremental approaches as "preserving the status quo." The message becomes one of "all or nothing" and that strategy is doomed to fail. Even Liz acknowledges the need to move more deliberately to avoid wholesale disruption.

In my personal opinion, it makes sense to begin the transition with a public option. Don't tell me I have to give up what I have and hope that what is offered in exchange is better. SHOW me that it is better, and I will gladly switch to it.

If a single payer, M4A type approach is better, people like me gladly switch to it and the transition will occur naturally.

But a "we're gonna cancel your insurance and the alternative will be better, trust us" approach is absolutely doomed.

[SoFlaDem]

26. Put yourself in their shoes...

You need to go without health insurance while we change things incrementally so as to not disrupt the great policies some people have.
Oh, and p.s., we hope you don't get sick.

[NYMinute]

47. One doesn't have to put oneself in misguided shoes

People were first conned with free tuition (which will never pass) and then conned into more and more free this and that, none of which will pass.

"They" need to learn to be realistic.

[NYMinute]

49. One can advocate for a unicorn in every backyard and a flying pig in every sky

One should also realize that advocating that is a fantasy errand and those things will never ever pass.

Politics is a game of reality - not fantasy.

[NurseJackie]

36. Nobody is doing that.

I just believe that some people are much more sensitive than others. When someone is so emotionally tied to a particular candidate (pundits call it "falling in love with a candidate'') then those supporters find it difficult to separate themselves from the criticism of that candidate and his (or her) policies and his (or her) words/deeds/actions/inactions/etc. Therefore, they take everything so personally and they feel deeply, deeply wounded and insulted when the candidate they "identify with" is ridiculed or scolded or criticized.

Anyway, it's not the end of the world.

[marble falls]

44. I happen to like the moderation here and think its more than fair. What's wrong with ...

keeping conversation mostly civil? Or having set ground rules applying to all - that you sign onto when you join?

[gollygee]

11. Bernie's goals sound great but his expectations are unrealistic

I voted for him in the 2016 primary because I loved his proposals. I didn't think he'd be able to actually do what he wanted to do, but I was happy to see someone with those things as a part of his vision.

I was unaware of how conservative the US is. I knew I was to the left of center, but I didn't realize how far left of center. I don't think many at DU get it.

The country as a whole is never going to adopt most of what he asks for, and he and his supporters are so strident that they can't seem to understand that we will be lucky to move even slightly to the left. We will be lucky to get a slight increase to minimum wage. We'll be lucky to get lower student debt loan interest. But we won't get anything at all unless we start getting republicans out of office.

[SoFlaDem]

15. Sometimes change

Comes in a sweeping movement. Look at FDR. Maybe, just maybe that's not so far off.

[Anon-C]

30. Look at October 1917.

True dat.

[SoFlaDem]

34. Always marvel

at fear mongering from the supposed left.

[HarlanPepper]

37. They should flock to a civics class and learn how our government works.

The basics of which aren't that hard to understand. bernie will need a supermajority in the senate to get anything done. He won't have it. The end.

[SoFlaDem]

39. So what are we doing to educate them?

All I hear on here is a lot of hate.

[HarlanPepper]

43. So pointing out people should be educated about how our govt works is hate?

That's ridiculous.

[betsuni]

62. Yes!

I don't understand why the concept of majorities is hard to grasp. That FDR got a lot done because he had supermajorities for years. That it was a miracle the ACA happened at all because Democrats only had 60 votes in the Senate for four months and ten days.

[Squinch]

54. And yet, the only election in recent memory where young

people came out in larger numbers than the usual dismal "youth vote" numbers was 2016.

In that election, candidates backed by Bernie and Our Revolution got clobbered. Almost none of them won. Moderates kicked ass and won most of the seats we won.

Seems like the youth, when they do show up, don't vote as much of a bloc. And certainly not a far left one.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. He got some post offices named, though.

[Squinch]

55. TWO!

[33taw]

4. If we make sure to focus on the Senate and House elections as well as the presidency

any candidate has an opportunity to pass legislation they support. We just need to stay focused on the goal of electing democratic candidates.

[DanTex]

6. The same argument could be made against any candidate. This isn't a Bernie-specific issue.

The GOP will try to block everything. It will be a fight for every inch of progress.

[Happy Hoosier]

9. Except Bernie burns more bridges than he builds.

The success of his Presidency would depend on working with, and compromising with Democratic Congressional leaders. Bernie has not really shown himself to be very skillful in that arena, IMO.

[Dr. Strange]

27. We really should be voting Republican.

That way, we can see legislation get passed.

[gollygee]

35. False dichotomy nt

[Dr. Strange]

45. That is true.

Now, how to convince the naysayers like the OP?

[Coleman]

10. Friedman had an article about this last week

Even if the Democrats keep the house and pick up the Senate, Sander's agenda as well as all of the others won't pass. Sander's agenda won't even garner the necessary Democratic votes to ensure passage. I agree with Sander's agenda and vote for him in the GE. I don't support him now because all he does is either yell or sternly lecture, and his campaign staff are a bunch of assholes.

[UniteFightBack]

16. And the DAMAGE to the Democratic party after all the 'broken promises'.....it must be stopped. nt

[AngelicaHora]

19. It's not even a real agenda

Warren's the one who has tried to turn his far left platform into something tangible. And then she got punished for it. It's easy to list all these big goals. Not so easy to create a path to get there.

[Fran2020]

21. We need a REVOLUTION electing progressives in congress too, in 2020, 2022, 2024!

Throw the GOP bums out!

[Squinch]

57. And what revolutionary acts has Bernie done in 30 years in Congress

to bring that on?

[yardwork]

22. THIS.

[dalton99a]

23. All talk and zero accomplishments.

[k2qb3]

25. You've got to aim for something.

The most powerful impact a president has is leading a party, the party becomes whatever the nominee is, the act of supporting the man internalizes the policy and priorities.

Republicans were the party of W, then they didn't know who they were except anti-Obama, and then they became the party of Trump.

Democrats are still the party of Obama, and tend to think that's just fine, all they need to do is not be Trump. I don't think that's true. Obama isn't on the ballot.

Political reality is going to exist regardless of who the nominee is. So are all the issues we face.

[Raster]

28. If a Ham Sandwich is our Democratic nominee...

Last edited Sat Feb 22, 2020, 06:40 AM - Edit history (1)

... then I will work for, raise money for and VOTE FOR the Ham Sandwich. Period. Full fucking stop.

Get it all out, people. Dither, bicker, and bitch. But make no mistake, we will ALL vote for our nominee, NO MATTER WHO THE NOMINEE IS. If you can't say that and can't do that, you don't belong here.

[42bambi]

60. Now that's a sensible positive statement!

[Raster]

63. We have two choices: electing tRump* or electing someone else.

It is that simple. Stay on this crazy train or get the hell off.

[Gothmog]

32. sanders does not have a magic wand

sanders is unable to get his proposals adopted in the real world and has been claiming that a magical voter revolution will get these proposals adopted

Even AOC has admitted that sanders does not have a nagic wand]

Link to tweet

sanders will never get any of his proposals adopted in the real world with a magical voter revolution

[Gothmog]

31. Harry Reid-no way sanders agenda will be adopted

Link to tweet

But Reid, who served as a Democrat in the U.S. Senate for 30 years, including as majority leader for eight years, said it didn't matter which candidate comes out in support of Sanders' signature health care plan: "I’m against it."

"It’s impractical ... There’s not a chance in hell it would pass," he told ABC News Political Director Rick Klein, instead advocating for strengthening the Affordable Care Act -- or Obamacare -- and looking to pass a public option.

There are not enough Democratic votes to get this concept passed in the real world

Link to tweet

[HarlanPepper]

38. He was called a senile old man by a Sanders supporter in another thread

Another one who had no fucking idea how the senate works.

[Moderateguy]

42. I guess they didn't realize that this senile old man is the same age as their Messiah

[krissey]

33. Just talk and we have all known for five years. Like Warren said, not just yelling at people,

but Warren can get things done.

[Fran2020]

40. Still best to push hard for a progressive FDR Democrat agenda!

Plus if he gets elected it will SHAKE THINGS UP, and who knows what is possible!

[ehrnst]

46. FDR...

[George II]

48. "DEMOCRAT" agenda?

[ehrnst]

50. Sad that you don't feel like he can shake things up unless he's POTUS.

Warren founded an entire consumer financial protection bureau before she was even in the Senate.

Hillary was spearheading a program into existence, with Ted Kennedy that actually got free health care to people before she ran for Senate.

Kloubuchar and Gillibrand have lapped him on authoring legislation in their short time on the Hill.

None of them needed to be in the Oval Office to accomplish those things.

Sanders has had decades inside the beltway to 'shake things up,' in that kind of big way.

Why hasn't he?

[betsuni]

61. +1

[Squinch]

58. What past acts of Bernie make you think he will shake anything up?

In 30 years in Congress, what has he shaken up?

[Tweedy]

41. What happens in 2022?

Senator Sanders is throwing hope lines to desperate people, without any idea how to deliver.

Interestingly, he won't be to blame for the failure-- we will. We won't have mobilized his "hey! Hey!" 1960's revolutionary movement.

Hopefully, should he win the nomination the democrats in government will get real things done. We will beat the unindicted co-conspirator currently occupying our White House.

Prepare yourself for Bernie finding fault with everything democrats try. Breakfast with Bernie has been a habit around here. Complaining about democrats is a favorite pastime of his.

We will likely lose the midterms spectacularly. 🤷?♀️ if Senator Sanders can win a second term.

In the meantime, we continue to roast like frogs in slowly boiling water.

Yes! Bernie is infinitely preferable to the unindicted co-conspirator currently in office. Bernie may be irretrievably stuck in the 1960's, locked into complaint mode & lacking in legislative gumption; yet, he is obviously not a sadist.

Indeed, Senator Sanders is normally empathetic, as are all the candidates seeking the democratic nominee.

[Nay]

51. If Republicans keep the Senate, every Dem president's agenda is just talk. nt

[democratisphere]

52. BS's job is to perpetually run for President.

THAT alone has made BS a millionaire with 3 houses.

[NurseJackie]

53. You're too kind. I think it's dishonest and unrealistic.

But... "just talk" is a nice way to put it, I suppose.

[Cha]

64. I have another word in mind

but I'll go with "just talk" for obvious reasons.

[BlueIdaho]

56. Magical Thinking

You don’t have to drill down too far before you realize that Bernie and many of his followers engage in magical thinking.

[Gothmog]

65. None of sanders proposals can be adopted in the real world

Link to tweet