Bernie is NOT a socialist, and I am getting exhausted by the Democrats who say that he is.

[Laelth]

He's a liberal, and everything he has proposed indicates that he's a mainstream, FDR, LBJ-type liberal, no matter what he calls himself. He's no socialist, and I think he can beat Donald Trump in November. Of course, I think that Daffy Duck could beat Trump in November, so that's not saying much, but I am losing my tolerance for the chicken-littles in my party who proclaim that Bernie's potential nomination will doom us to another 4 years of Trump. That's just silly.



Bernie is not a socialist, so let's abandon that irrational fear and grapple with the truth. There's a lot of pent-up liberal energy in the party right now, and it has to go somewhere. At the moment, it looks like it's going to Bernie. Ignore Bernie and his supporters at your peril. If you don't like the risk that Bernie and his supporters pose to the party, you had better do something about it and do it fast. Give them someone they want to vote for. You can't just tell them NOT to vote for Bernie because it will hurt the party. You have to give them an alternative that they actually like and want to vote for.

What do you have? Nothing? Most likely, if they can't vote for Sanders, they will vote for Bloomberg, and I predict that Bloomberg will, in fact, be our nominee. At least he's shown his willingness to take the fight directly to the Great Pumpkin. That's more than many of our "traditional" candidates have done so far.

-Laelth

[Moderateguy]

1. Maybe you should tell Bernie that

He seems proud of the fact that he’s a Democratic Socialist

[Laelth]

34. Should he be ashamed of that?

I wouldn't be if I were he.



-Laelth

[Moderateguy]

35. You started a thread claiming he's not one....

[apcalc]

2. It doesn't matter. That's the point.

The general public doesn’t get it. They won’t get it.

The Republicans will call him a socialist.

Then he has to explain himself. When you have to do that , you lose.

[Laelth]

18. Every single candidate that has been nominated by Democrats ...

... for as long as I have been following American politics, has been labeled by Republicans as "the most liberal candidate to ever run for office." Despite those accusations, JFK, Carter, Clinton, and Obama won. Seriously, we can't be worried about how the Republicans will label us. In the long run, that's irrelevant.

-Laelth

[Cal Carpenter]

30. Everyone knows he identifies as socialist. Calling him one is not a weapon.

His (growing) support is either in spite of, or because of that.

[Ferrets are Cool]

38. Ding, ding, ding...winner winner....

chicken dinner.

[Jarqui]

55. +1 Folks are very busy trying to survive

They do not have time to follow the issues as closely as most do on this site.

I supported Bernie in 2016. In terms of policy, he's probably closest with his policies to how I feel idealistically.

But the campaigns are exchanging tweets on the issues. Not many absorbed Elizabeth's M4A plan. Folks do not have thew time and the media is diluted.

The GOP will demonize him and because there is ample video of him claiming to be a Democratic Socialist, some of the demonizing will stick. They're already referring to him as a Commie. The Evangelicals will go wild on his early papers on sex. etc. He's more vulnerable that way than Joe.

Bernie's been fighting for these polices his whole life. He's real - even if his policies may be unrealistic in today's politics. But the GOP with rip him mercilessly. No time for nuance or meaningful explaining in today's media. He's going to be a tougher sell in the general election in a year we cannot afford to lose.

[mzmolly]

3. He calls himself a socialist

sadly🤔. He should register as a Dem and put the label to bed.

[Laelth]

22. Be fair, please.

He calls himself a "Democratic Socialist," and he recently gave an interview in which he called himself a capitalist. At the Nevada debate he said, in effect, "Nobody here wants to destroy capitalism." The dude is a liberal, no matter what label he has embraced in the past. He's running as a DEMOCRAT, and I will support him if he is our nominee.

-Laelth

[mzmolly]

37. I am.

And I get it. But many voters will not.

[Laelth]

46. I hear you.

But I simply don’t think that voters, these days, care about labels at all.

-Laelth

[mzmolly]

48. I wish I agreed.

I know people who are more afraid of Sanders than Trump because of the label in question.

[UniteFightBack]

4. And I'm exhausted by Bernie Sanders calling himself a Democratic Socialist so what are you

talking about?

[Laelth]

47. Ignore Bernie and his followers at your peril.

Feel free to dismiss the message I was attempting to communicate.

I wish you well.



-Laelth

[UniteFightBack]

52. Oh I know all about their blackmail and our 'peril'...but your post was about him calling himself

a Socialist...remember?

[ancianita]

5. Why do you not mention Warren? Isn't she Bernie enough? socialist enough for Bernie folks?

Is it because she's not a he?

[Laelth]

24. That's a low blow.

If AOC had endorsed and campaigned for Warren, I think she'd be in Bernie's position right now. I sent Warren a letter in 2016 asking her to run against Hillary Clinton. She chose to defer to Hillary. I adore Elizabeth Warren, and I would be honored to have her serve as my President.

But I see what I see. I see a Bernie/Bloomberg fight that ends with Bloomberg as our nominee.



-Laelth

[ancianita]

39. Okay, thanks for the explanation. I hope Americans see the smartest person in the room on our ticket

[Laelth]

41. Pete's awfully smart, and he's my first choice.

Elizabeth is probably smarter, admittedly, and she's my second.



-Laelth

[UniteFightBack]

53. Warren doesn't call herself a Socialist so why would she be mentioned ? nt

[ancianita]

62. True, she doesn't. Yet she's as pro-labor and regulatory capitalist as a socialist can get. Which

Bernie supporters should be willing and able to see if, for any reason, they saw their candidate leave the arena.

[uponit7771]

6. Democratic ..... Socialist isn't 100% better, we know that right? tia

[we can do it]

7. BS said he was.

[Wounded Bear]

8. And that's not the point...

the point is that the RW echo chamber will be saying that over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over again for the next 9 months.

[Historic NY]

17. and over................

Trump is good at branding, democrats have been tarred by the liberal label before and they will do it again. The Democratic Socialist Party of 59000 is not the Democratic Party. He's hijacking our party. At least Bloomberg is a Democrat

[ancianita]

63. He's not good at branding what's not fact. "Do nothing" Democrats is one example. He'll call ALL

Democrats socialist whenever he wants, too.

He doesn't need Bernie around to start THAT up.

Everyone should remind all of America that THE most soviet commie, calling and meeting with Putin 150+ times in the last three years, is Donnie Heil-Putin Trump.

[left-of-center2012]

9. " everything he has proposed indicates that he's a mainstream"

[Callado119]

10. Nope, he IS a socialist..

...he’s on tape calling himself a socialist... republicans will make sure every voter in America sees it...so there’s no use running from it..if in the fall we’re frantically explaining the differences between socialism and democratic socialism or starting every sentence with “but, but..Denmark!”..we’ll definitely be losing..

[Crunchy Frog]

11. I agree. I just wish he would make that clear.

[PETRUS]

19. After watching some debates and town halls, here's what I think he's trying to do.

First, I think he is a "small d" democrat (which is a kind of socialism in and of itself). I don't think he's been dishonest by calling himself a socialist - his past makes it clear that he's had a sympathetic curiosity and reflexive support for anti-capitalist efforts around the world. If I'm reading things right, both his commitment to democracy as a principle and the realities of living in the US means he's trying to make a case for things that either do have - or could potentially get - broad public support, which means New Deal/social democracy type policies.

When asked about his "socialism," the stock answer seems to be - hey, look we've got socialism for the rich, let's have socialism for everybody else. I think that's a way to try to avoid getting into the weeds on this issue.

[appalachiablue]

12. On 'socialism,' where's mention of fast-rising FASCISM?

Bernie, Elizabeth & Dems. are the exact opposite of anti-democratic authoritarianism growing throughout the world now.

[doc03]

13. He has declared himself a socialist a thousand times.

[redstateblues]

14. Nice try. Epic fail

[George II]

15. In his own words:

[evertonfc]

16. A Democratic Socialist

with a documented history of supporting Marxists and Socialists. He's toast in a GE. The guy honeymooned in the Soviet Union for God's sake- During the Cold War. See how that plays in Middle America. Jesus Christ.. There is video, audio and writings that will turn into ads. Lastly, he isn't a Democrat.

[TheCowsCameHome]

20. He won't be pleased when you tell him that.

"He's not a socialist"

[Aussie105]

21. Can someone explain:

Explain to someone who is NOT fluent in the nuances of American English, what the negative connotation, and wide eyed fear there is in the following labels?

Socialist.

Liberal.

A lot of countries around the world are socialist. You can tell by the quality of their health care, welfare system for the infirm and old, and the quality of education for the young.

[Tarc]

23. Something is "socialist" to rich, white Americans if it benefits poor people rather than themselves

Massive bailouts of failing auto companies is fine.

Offer to make people healthy or give them a path to higher education? Some equate that to Pol Pot and Josef Stalin.

[Aussie105]

25. Pol Pot and Josef Stalin?

Neither would have described their method of running a country as socialist.

[Tarc]

27. American Conservatives believe socialism and communism are exactly the same thing

They're rather insane.

[Aussie105]

33. Yeah. Tales to frighten children . . .

But surely mature adults know the difference?

Seems a lot of Americans, including not a few posters here, don't know the difference and have drunk the 'OMG! It's COMMUNISM! RUN LIKE MAD!!!' cool aid.

[Tarc]

26. Bernie embraces the "socialist" label, as well he should

If he ran away form it or tried to equivocate, that would just play into conservatives' hands.

Sanders owns the label, thus it has no power.

[gollygee]

32. Owning it doesn't keep it from having power. nt

[redstateblues]

56. It's a very toxic concept. Union of Soviet Socialist Republics among other failed countries.

Hopefully History is still taught in school

[krissey]

28. Sanders, says he is a socialist, on film. Don't put it on all of us. This is what Sanders says.

[RandySF]

29. Then what is he calling himself?

[Laelth]

40. It doesn't matter what he calls himself. That's my point.

He will probably enter the convention with a plurality (but not quite a majority) of delegates.

What are we going to do with that? Bernie represents a lot of Democrats who are absolutely freaking tired of being told what we CAN'T DO ... can't afford universal health care, can't afford free college for all, can't afford to eliminate crushing student loan debt, can't afford a huge increase in the minimum wage, can't afford to seriously address climate change, can't afford to ...

You get my point, I assume. Our base is sick and tired of hearing about what we can't do (oh, and, by the way, we can afford to spend about $13 trillion to kill Iraqis). Our standard party position no longer flies. We need to seriously deliver for the people. Sanders' energy comes from the people who are dissatisfied with the way the Democratic Party is handling itself right now.

For better or for worse.

-Laelth

[Squinch]

54. It really does matter what he calls himself. And what the republicans will drum into

everyone's brains continually. With the help of videos of BS saying it.

It matters because it will lose us the Presidency and the Congress.

[stonecutter357]

31. google it / NT . He calls himself a socialist !

[Aussie105]

36. Yes, keep it going.

He is one of those evil socialists, can't possibly vote for him!

Straight out of the Russian Troll playbook, point out the negative aspect of a candidate, crank it up, make people concerned and confused so that they vote for no one, and let Trump slide back in.

Got to ask again. He is a socialist. Self confessed. Now, outline why that is bad.

[Codeine]

42. Sure he is, and that's fine.

I don’t have any issue with his policies or his ideology. I would describe myself as a socialist, even.

Bernie’s problem is that he lacks any capacity whatever to be a competent leader and effective chief executive. I don’t want him as our nominee because even if he won (and I’d vote for him if he got the nod) I honestly think he’d make a really crappy president.

[Aussie105]

44. Wow!

Great crystal ball gazing there!

The next POTUS won't instantly have all the skills required for the job, that's a given. Forming an informed and capable team around him/herself would be a smart starting move, as well as the ability to learn quickly.

But then, anyone with a functional brain would have a great head start on #45's continued reign of stupidity.

[Codeine]

45. "Informed and capable team"?

Look at the whackadoodle folks he’s got working for him now, or back in ‘16. The man has shown a lack of acumen when it comes to hiring.

[TomSlick]

43. I tried for a while to explain on DU was meant by "socialism"

and why Sanders was really a social democrat.

I stopped doing so because I tired of Sandernistas telling me how poorly educated I am. I decided that if so many self-professed political science experts were confident that my political science degree came from inept professors, they must be right.

Sanders is obviously intelligent. He surely knows what it means to be a socialist. Sen. Sanders says he is a socialist. The Sandernistas say Sanders is a socialist. Maybe he really is a socialist.

[mvd]

49. Good thread and thanks

Socialism implies that the government controls the means of production. And Bernie does not want total government intervention. He calls himself a Democratic Socialist, and he will have to explain the difference to people, but Repukes would even try to call Bloomberg a socialist. It is their new word for any help to the 99%. Plus, capitalism is a cruel system and needs some socialism mixed in.

[NurseJackie]

50. Don't make me post that gif and clip of Bernie saying it.

He's a socialist.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

51. Have you mentioned that to Bernie?

He's repeatedly called himself a socialist.

[denem]

57. Not as exhausted as Bernie will get

trying the educate the public on the differences between socialism, democratic socialism, and communism.

[radius777]

58. Ignore the Obama/Clinton wing at your peril.

We're still the majority of the party, that we built.

Alot of the Bernie base are independents/Greens/Libertarian types who simply dislike Obama, Hillary, Kamala etc - because they dislike ambitious and successful PoC/women/etc.

The establishment was fine for many white voters on the right and left before an ambitious black man became president.

[MFM008]

59. Once again

Allow me to post the republican formula.

SOCIALISM = COMMUNISM = DEATH AND DESTRUCTION AND DESPAIR.
over and over again in variations.
Bernie in Moscow.
Bernie in Nicaragua.
They will superimpose him in Cuba.
Not to mention Vietnam.

They are making the ads now.

[tritsofme]

60. What a silly thread. I'll take Bernie at his own word on this subject.

[Recursion]

61. I mean, he's proposing mandatory labor ownership of shares

That's... pretty much literally exactly socialism.

[karynnj]

64. I think Bernie needs a reverend Wright speech on this

He himself has said he is a democratic socialist and earlier said socialist. In fact, he does not support any normal definition of socialist as the ok and a Paul Krugman op-ed explained. However, he has created this problem by his own statements and his refusal to become and stay a Democrat.

No one is running is a pure socialist or a pure capitalist - and neither extreme would be viable. They lie on a spectrum and the candidates could be mapped along it.

Because of Bernie's own use of the word, he needs to define what he means by democratic socislist. Does he mean the social democrat of Scananavia? Even if so, he should add FDR and his programs.

He needs a big speech on this to define himself before the Republicans do.

[jmg257]

65. Pssst...you might want to tell bernie that.

He’s a self-proclaimed socialist.
He was a member of a socialist affiliated party, including being their candidate and chairman.

[AncientGeezer]

66. I think that news might be a shock to Him.....have you let him know?