I don't believe Putin is meddling in our elections to help Bernie win.

[tecelote]

Putin wants Trump.

He's using Bernie to sow discord and it's working.

[True Blue American]

1. Of course!

Putin did the same last time. Remember Jill Stein? An obvious Russian stooge.

[tecelote]

5. I'm responding to the media titles like...

Bernie Sanders is told by U.S. officials that Russia is trying to help his campaign - Washington Post

Sanders told Russia is trying to help his campaign - CNN

Sanders says he was briefed on Russian effort to help campaign - The Hill

[uponit7771]

2. Sanders has no swing state appeal outside of MOE, of course Putin want's his whore Trump to run ...

... against Sanders

[Kurt V.]

61. What is MOE?

[TexasTowelie]

64. Margin of error

in statistical polling.

[Kurt V.]

65. Thought so but wanted to be sure. thanks!

[Sherman A1]

3. Putin wants disruption

And will continue to use asymmetric warfare against his opponents. The particular individuals or in this case campaigns are meaningless. It is the disruption that counts.

[redstateblues]

103. He wants Bernie because Bernie will be the easiest to beat. Plain and simple

[Sherman A1]

106. I suspect that we will have to

agree to disagree on this point.

I really do not believe that Sanders will be a push over in the General Election, he certainly seems to be doing okay so far and he has a rather good chance of being the nominee.

[Butterflylady]

110. Of course he will be a push over.

Sanders does not and will not have the money to fight against the onslaught of what's coming. I just don't understand how so many people dismiss that fact. I have one word for you, fear and they know just how to use it.

[Sherman A1]

115. We will see

[defacto7]

107. Why not both?

Confusion and beatability.

[NanceGreggs]

4. Uh ...

Nobody with a functioning brain believes that Putin wants "Bernie to win" the GE.

What Putin wants is for Bernie to be the nominee who has to run against Trump - because he (and the GOP) - know that Bernie is the easiest candidate to beat.

[tecelote]

6. Then that's what they should say.

Many media outlets say he is getting help.

[NanceGreggs]

11. He IS getting help.

He is not asking for it, nor soliciting it - but the Russians are helping him nonetheless.

And there's a reason for that: they (Putin and the GOP) know they have the oppo-research that will destroy Bernie in the GE.

[tecelote]

12. After all these years, there's new oppo?

Russia has oppo his opponents don't?

[NanceGreggs]

15. In a word ...

... yes.

[tecelote]

19. And, that's true only for Bernie and not all candidates?

[NanceGreggs]

22. In a word ...

... yes.

[tecelote]

24. Whoever threatens Trump's reign will get attacked by Russia.

[NanceGreggs]

26. That's why Russia(and the GOP) wants to help Bernie ...

... because they know Bernie is no threat to Trump.

Get it now?

[tecelote]

29. Then you must believe that if Bernie wins, many Democrats will stay home.

I don't believe that.

If Bernie is our nominee, I'm sure you'll will still vote for him. So will most Democrats and many Independents.

This fatalism is incorrect and not helping.

[NanceGreggs]

34. You are rambling now ...

... and not making any sense at all.

How you got that I must believe that if Bernie wins, many Democrats will stay home" out of anything I've said is - well, to put it bluntly, delusional.

[tecelote]

38. Insult me. That'll help.

I assumed you meant he would lose because he did not get enough votes.

[NanceGreggs]

46. First tip for getting yourself out of a hole ...

... stop digging.

[tecelote]

51. Ha. Keep attacking, that'll change my mind.

[NanceGreggs]

53. Change your mind about what?

As I said, you're rambling.

[tecelote]

56. About Bernie and Russia

Isn't that why your arguing?

No need for insults.

[Squinch]

63. I'll say it. If Bernie wins, I think many Democrats will stay home. I won't, but I think many will.

He has equated us to republicans. He is implying we are his enemy.

He just keeps cutting off his own nose, and that is going to have some effect.

[OnDoutside]

78. I think you are wrong. Democrats will come out to vote. The problem is anti-Trumpers will NOT

vote for a Socialist, and neither will right leaning Independents. This will cost the Democratic Party everything, including the House.

[Squinch]

85. And I think BS telling people like me that we're the same as republicans will have an effect.

Beyond that I totally agree with you.

[Squinch]

62. After yesterday, when he let us know he considers Democrats to be equal to Republicans on his

enemies list, I am pretty sure a lot of Democrats will feel they have no one to vote for.

I'll vote for him, but the prospect is now nauseating to me.

First because he thinks I, as a moderate Democrate am his enemy,

second because he trashes my party constantly

and third because he will be demolished in the general.

[McTwisty]

77. Unless your an actual member of the parry establishment

He wasn’t talking to you. Voting for and being a member of are two completely different things.

Too many people forget that.

[Squinch]

81. Sure. That makes it all OK. I SUPPORT my party. I REVERE Nancy Pelosi. He was talking to me.

I am OFFENDED that he would equate Nancy Pelosi and Adam Schiff and Biden and Obama and all of my Senators and House members to REPUBLICANS. What a crock! Those people speak for me! And THEY are Bernie's enemies?

Everyone other than his followers knows exactly who he was talking to. We have been hearing it for 5 years now.

But sure. Let's spin and spin and spin and not pay any attention to the actual words we hear.

[Tumbulu]

87. Wow, that's exactly how I feel

Thank you for articulating it so well.

[Cha]

13. Thanks for explaining that so Clearly!

[5X]

93. looks like it is really helping him on DU,

yeah, right.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287558278

too many are falling for the propaganda.

[whopis01]

117. He is getting help to win the primary. n/t

[jmg257]

16. Why would bernie be a bad choice (on the Dem side) IF he won?

He has always been very sympathetic to many things Russia.

[tecelote]

20. Oh, come on.

Show me where Bernie says he will not do anything but fight against Russian interference.

[jmg257]

23. With respect - That wasn't my question.

The point raised I responded to was re: ‘no way Russia would want Bernie to win.’

[MrsCoffee]

36. Didn't he play down Russian interference saying it was a distraction and voted no on sanctions?

Uh.... hello!

[Squinch]

67. Because none of them is Filthy Donnie. Filthy Donnie is russian gold. Not to mention

Saudi Arabian gold. Gold to ALL the people who want to loot America for their own benefit.

Bernie is a pawn to get to that end.

You might be right that they consider him the least evil for their plan B. He tends to vote against sanctions etc. But no one is as valuable to them as Filthy Donnie.

[jaxexpat]

55. And mayor Pete is the next easiest to beat.

The Democratic effort to take the white house is being engineered by others. Most are clueless. Too busy focused on their Facebook friends and their favorites. It is wake up or die time.

[jcmaine72]

7. Bernie isn't being used by anyone,, least of all Putin.

If anything, he and his pet Dotard are probably shitting in their pants at the prospect of facing Bernie. Putin knows that Bernie can't be bought, sold, or bartered. It'll mean the end of his little game.

[tecelote]

8. Totally agree!

That's why the narrative that Russia is "helping" Bernie needs to stop.

[NanceGreggs]

18. That "narrative" ...

... is coming from our intelligence agencies - but we shouldn't trust them, right?

[tecelote]

27. I trust them.

But I believe they are helping Trump.

"Helping" Bernie is to sow discord not to get him elected President.

You'll never convince me that Russia wants anyone but Trump.

[NanceGreggs]

31. Of course they want Trump ...

... which is why they want the weakest nominee on the Dem ticket running against him.

[tecelote]

37. Opinion.

I disagree.

Younger generations in America want the changes he proposes. The thing so many are afraid of is that he wants change and that scares many. It doesn't make him undetectable.

That's my opinion. We'll see who's correct.

[MrsCoffee]

39. It has been explained to you already.

He helps Bernie because that would ensure a Trump win.

[jmg257]

50. Yet in 2016...

Russia also worked to support — or at least not harm — Mr. Sanders in 2016. Operatives at a Russian intelligence-backed troll factory were instructed to avoid attacking Mr. Sanders or Mr. Trump, according to the report by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, and an indictment he secured of 13 Russians working on the operation.

Both the indictment and Mr. Mueller’s report quoted internal documents from the Internet Research Agency ordering operatives to attack Hillary Clinton’s campaign. “Use any opportunity to criticize Hillary and the rest except for Sanders and Trump — we support them,” the document said.

Not a really big stretch to believe they are helping Sanders is it?

[tecelote]

21. Exactly!

[Squinch]

68. *Fingers in ears, shouting, "LALALALALALALA"*

[liberal N proud]

76. Exactly

[uponit7771]

100. Sanders has no historical swing state appeal outside of MOE, Biden has the most

[brutus smith]

9. Wow! The elitists are really scared Bernie might win.

Why weren't the ruskies trying to help Bernie win in 2016? That's because they knew they had a better shot at beating Hillary.

[W_HAMILTON]

32. Uh, the Russians did boost Sanders's campaign in 2016.

Last edited Sat Feb 22, 2020, 05:57 PM - Edit history (1)

Haven't read much of the Mueller Report, have you?

[pazzyanne]

35. "Why weren't the ruskies trying to help Bernie win in 2016?"

Because they had Jill Stein! They were trying to split the women's vote.

[MrsCoffee]

40. Derp. It's well documented that they did!

[brutus smith]

43. If the ruskies wanted Bernie to win they would be attacking Biden.

[MrsCoffee]

47. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

[Squinch]

70. Oh my god. Do you hear yourself?? Did you notice that impeachment we just had?

[brutus smith]

94. Show me where they attacked Biden recently.

[Squinch]

97. Wow. No, dear. This is not worth my time. I suspect you'll interpret that as your big win, so

enjoy your weird, weird, victory.

[brutus smith]

105. Didn't think you could. But thanks for the name calling.

[jmg257]

58. Quite clearly, they were...

Russia also worked to support — or at least not harm — Mr. Sanders in 2016. Operatives at a Russian intelligence-backed troll factory were instructed to avoid attacking Mr. Sanders or Mr. Trump, according to the report by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, and an indictment he secured of 13 Russians working on the operation.

Both the indictment and Mr. Mueller’s report quoted internal documents from the Internet Research Agency ordering operatives to attack Hillary Clinton’s campaign. “Use any opportunity to criticize Hillary and the rest except for Sanders and Trump — we support them,” the document said.

[Squinch]

69. You might want to re-read the Mueller Report. They most certainly WERE helping BS in 2016.

[uponit7771]

101. Sanders has no historical swing state appeal outside of MOE, Biden has the most

[Raster]

10. but of course...

...the Russian* oligarchs* have guaranteed hundreds of millions of dollars of loans for tRump*, not Sanders.

[OKNancy]

14. It's a win-win for Putin either way

We know he would prefer Trump. However with Sanders he gets someone who said Russia should be included in NATO and who also doesn't care for entanglements in Europe. Putin, maybe wrongly, thinks Sanders would be more positive toward Russia than some of the other Democrats.
Obviously what others have mentioned is true too. Putin wants disruption.

[Hulk]

99. Just curious.....when did BS say he wanted Russia in NATO?

Thing have gone through some major changes in Russia since the Soviet Union broke up. Context matters. Curious if it was in the days of Gorbachev or after Putin took over. Any info on that??

[OKNancy]

109. April 2015

https://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/11/19/sanders-wants-new-nato-with-russia

“We must create a new organization like NATO to confront the security threats of the 21st century -- an organization that emphasizes cooperation and collaboration to defeat the rise of violent extremism and, importantly, to address the root causes underlying these brutal acts,” he said in the speech. “We must work with our NATO partners, we must work to expand the coalition with Russia and we must work with members of the Arab League.”

----------
I suppose he could have change his position since then.

[Hulk]

111. Again, just a question....

Wondering if he meant to "include" Russia in NATO, or meant to negotiate with Russia to expand NATO, since the newest members are on Russia's frontier...."we must work to expand the coalition with Russia and we must work with members of the Arab League.”

I'd like to pose this question to his campaign, or to BS and get a clarification. I find it hard to believe he would want to INCLUDE Russia in NATO. That hardly makes sense, but I don't know. Bernie is a different breed of politician, and I'm not totally sold on all of his ideas.

The thing that bothers me about all of this debate stuff is that NOBODY is going to get all their "positions" through, since we still have the trolls and GOPutin party to deal with in Congress. If we don't take the Senate, we can kiss all these wonderful ideas from ALL the potential candidates good-bye. That includes healthcare and everything else.

[Walleye]

17. I'm afraid that Putin understands our own politics better than we do

[Cosmocat]

30. He has to spend his evenings drinking expensive liqour

And absolutely full of joy in how fucking stupid and easily manipulated this country is.

We have 1/3 of our country eagerly ROLLING OVER to, and another 1/3 who could give a shit, to the country that was one wrong move away from initiating our mutually ensured destruction for the entire planet.

[uponit7771]

102. Putin does, he understands Sanders has no historical swing state appeal outside of MOE but Biden doe

[Arkansas Granny]

25. I believe they want Bernie because they have something to use against him

that they will use if he gets the nomination. Maybe it's true, maybe its not. Remember, Bernie has never been vetted by the right wing.

That being said, Bernie is not to blame for this. Russia is using him like a playing piece on the chessboard and their ultimate goal doesn't include Bernie in the White House. They want Trump.

[Cha]

33. Excellent point.. "..BS has never been vetting by the rw.. "

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

28. My doctor -- a Democrat -- told me today that he couldn't vote for Sanders.

I think that's what Putin is up to. Despite the polls, what matters is how many voters are motivated to come out and vote for the party's nominee. If Putin can arrange things so Bernie is the nominee, many people, like my doctor, who usually vote for Democrats will stay home. If Bernie is not the nominee, the Bernie Bros -- assisted by the Russians -- will do everything they can to sabotage the person who is, probably by throwing their support behind a third party candidate. Think of Jill Stein; remember the photo of her sitting at the dinner table with Putin?

While I like a lot of his ideas, the facts are that Bernie is 80 years old, has had a heart attack, and won't release his medical records. The presidency is stressful on a younger man -- look at the before-and-after photos of Dubya and Obama. If Sanders is our nominee and wins, he'd better pick a damned good running mate. His or her role may end up being more vital than merely going to state funerals in other countries.

Personally, I don't care if we nominate a 35 year old native born walnut. I will be at the polls voting for the Democratic Party nominee, come hell or high water.

[Maribelle]

41. It's a stretch to believe that the Russians merely want to sow discord and stop there.

Last edited Sat Feb 22, 2020, 10:32 AM - Edit history (1)

But trying to find out exactly what the Russians are doing might be beyond what the intelligence agencies are willing to reveal in order to protect their sources.

We've been down this road with Florida in prior years.

And Florida remains corrupt.

[Squinch]

71. And we were down this road when the intelligence agencies finally admitted that Russians

breached the voting systems of dozens of states in 2016. But then said they didn't change any votes.

I guess they just looked around like condo buyers, flushed the toilets, checked the water pressure and went home.

[uponit7771]

104. +1, like it was a stretch to believe they hacked into systems and stopped there

[Raven123]

42. I agree. This election is Democrat versus Putin

If Bernie is the nominee, it will be especially important to make that point.

[bucolic_frolic]

44. Democracy vs Dictatorship

Pick a side, and choose wisely. A vote for Bernie is a vote for Trump, and Putin, and dictators around the world, and you'll have no democracy remaining, only sham trials and sham elections.

[Chemisse]

45. Exactly. He probably also thinks Trump can more easily win against Bernie. n/t

[brutus smith]

48. We don't need russia to sow discord because we have a lot on here doing it for them.

Especially a certain candidate's supporters.

[Squinch]

73. And somehow, BS is always at the center of the worst of it.

[bucolic_frolic]

49. Your beliefs do not change the equation

Putin helps Bernie to elect Trump. Bernie is being used as a pawn, and you are allowing it to happen!

[pansypoo53219]

52. like the experts. putin thinks bernie will lose in USA.

[jmg257]

54. And out of all the Democratic candidates, who do we think Putin would want

Want if trump loses which - is very possible.


Hmm...

[Demsrule86]

57. No he wants Sanders to win...anyone but Biden is Putin and Trump's motto...Sanders will lose a

general and probably the house. I vote blue no matter who, but I seen a terrible loss if Sanders is the nominee.

[58Sunliner]

59. I think Putin is capable of rigging votes. I think Bernie doesn't care how how gets there.

One way or the other. All I have to do is look at the integrity of the people he hired. Which is scary.

[Squinch]

60. Anyone else reminded, very uncomfortably, of Trumpers' blind fealty while reading this thread?

We're fucked.

[Generic Brad]

66. Yes. Let's 100% discount our national intelligence findings

When they tell us something we don't want to believe we can just stick our fingers in our ears and chant "La la la la la la la".

[Squinch]

74. Well, the OP doesn't FEEL that they are right, so that clinches it.

[Laelth]

72. Very likely the case. n/t

-Laelth

[liberal N proud]

75. He is helping BS win the Democratic nomination because BS can't beat trump

Putin's puppet on the Democratic campaign trail doesn't stand a chance in hell so he is boosting the one candidate that has a chance but is seen by many Americans as toxic.

BS is not the traditional Democrat and many centered Democrats and independents will n oh vote for him. At least that is Putin's gamble.

[OnDoutside]

82. There are two real possibilities, of which your suggestion is the most likely.

The other is that Sanders has sent enough signals in his votes, that he would be more stable to deal with, if he were to beat Trump. However, in reality, your suggestion is the simplest, and most likely.

[liberal N proud]

112. Putin only wants to deal with trump

[OnDoutside]

116. 100% agree.

[Aussie105]

79. Putin is not an American citizen.

Who he wants as the POTUS should not be relevant.

But Putin does what Putin does, and he is not saying what, or why.

What freaks me out though, is that I see little evidence of anything happening to stop outside interference in American politics.

Are social media monitoring and shutting down the spreading of false information, the Twitter and Facebook posts from 'Patriot in Alabama' who is actually sitting in a Moscow basement somewhere?

Have they stopped airing ads that are blatant attacks on candidates?

Do TV stations enforce any rules about attack ads, truth in political advertising, etc?

Are American media fact checking information from the White house and saying 'hold on!' when the facts don't agree with the verbal flood from Trump?

And what is the latest moves to ensure the next election is fair?

I'm waiting to hear about all the progress on those fronts! Well, I'm listening!

. . . . crickets. loud chirping. definitely crickets . . .

[Jarqui]

80. Here's a key part of the reason why Trump & Putin want Sanders

Poll of polls from Real Clear Politics
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/general_election/

PA Biden +6, Sanders +2.7 - Biden is not going to lose the state he was born and raised in. Trump's path for election gets really difficult without PA's electoral votes.

DE Biden +16, Sanders +1. Sanders puts DE in play

VA Biden +11.5, Sanders +3.5, Sanders puts VA in play

AZ Biden +0.3, Sanders -5.0 Biden puts AZ in play

NV Biden +4.0, Sanders +2.7

NH Biden +6.6, Sanders +5.0

MI Biden +5.7, Sanders +4.7

WI Biden +0.7, Sanders -0.7

GA Biden +0.3, Sanders -1.0

NC Biden +3.4, Sanders +1.0

FL Biden +1.7, Sanders +0.3

IA Biden -3.0, Sanders, -6.0

TX Biden -3.0, Sanders -4.4

Biden does better than Sanders head to head with Trump all of those battleground states.- many of them beyond the margin of error.

Trump has smeared Biden with Ukraine to get those numbers tighter. He hasn't really started in on Sanders beyond calling him a Commie.

There is a reason why Trump was so desperate to smear Biden and the GOP protective of Trump. It is all about keeping power. They figure their chances are much better to keep power if Bernie is the nominee. The polls back them up on that reasoning. They're going to shut up about Bernie until Biden is out of the picture.

That's why I switched to supporting Joe - Joe is what Trump doesn't want so lets ram Joe down Trump's vile orifice.

[Tom Rinaldo]

83. One might say that Putin is using us to sow discord...

...and it's working.

[TwilightZone]

86. Sanders isn't helping.

His tiresome "both sides are bad" mantra is utter nonsense. It's an idiotic assertion, regardless of the source.

Want to find someone sowing discord? Start with your candidate and his staff.

[Tom Rinaldo]

108. Of course NOTHING about what you just wrote

could in any way be helping sow discord with the tens of millions of Americans who think very favorably of Senator Sanders.

[TwilightZone]

84. They're not mutually exclusive.

Propping up Bernie serves both purposes, from their perspective. It heightens tensions on the Dem side and they think, right or wrong, that he would be the easiest to defeat in November.

It's not complicated. People are way overthinking this.

[BlueMTexpat]

88. Bernie sows enough

discord by himself.

[NYMinute]

89. Putin wants Sanders as the dem nominee

So he can't lose either way

In some ways I think Putin thinks Sanders might be able to get the sanctions lifted that Trumps couldn't.

[wyldwolf]

90. I do

Not sure Bernie is on board. He likely isn't. But I believe Putin is helping Bernie the same way he helped Trump. Bernie is the weakest GE candidate and will assure another Trump win.

[duforsure]

91. The Democrats should be shouting out daily now

Especially Bernie, who has bills sitting in the Senate being blocked by trump and Moscow Mitch from being brought up for election protections against putin election fixing, again. They should be saying daily trump and the GOP in the Senate are preventing laws protecting our elections from another country , an enemy, from illegally rigging elections . Every reporter should ask trump , MM, and GOP members why are they helping putin interfere , again if they claim they are fair elections. Why did trump fire the DNI guy , because he wanted to hide the truth that putin is helping him , again, and when it was told to the Democrats he went ballistic and fired that guy. He didn't go on about how it was being done, and measures to stop it, he was pissed because it was exposed, while continuing to do anything to stop it. All the candidates should start asking why are trump and the GOP doing nothing to stop it, then repeat it over and over again. All the way to the election they should talk , put ads out, and repeat trump and the GOP have knowingly repeated putin's propaganda they knew was false to the American people. trump and the GOP are now just another russian propaganda machine for putin, and putin's protector with trump now.

[beachbumbob]

92. if bernie is the nominee, be difficult NOT to see trump relected, putin's end game is further

destruction of our democracy

[Renew Deal]

95. He doesn't have to meddle in the GE if he gets favorable candidates.

[Demsrule86]

96. He is helping Sanders win the primary and then Sanders loses the general...Trump can beat Sanders.

[highplainsdem]

98. Putin is trying to help Sanders win the primary, as a way of guaranteeing Trump wins the GE.

[Deero]

113. it has

nothing to do with Trump. if Sanders is the democratic nominee Putin can rest easy. either way he would have who he wants in the White House.

show me where, in his life's history, that Sanders has been tough on Russis.

[Garrett78]

114. Putin will exploit perceptions surrounding anyone who becomes a frontrunner.

Something I posted elsewhere:

Russia will do anything to undermine any candidate who becomes the frontrunner. I'm sure Russia is aware of the perception that Sanders can't win, so they're going to exploit that for all it's worth.

I think that perception is false. I know you disagree and I respect your opinion. But that perception seems to be based largely on false assumptions about so-called independents, moderates, undecideds, etc. And the notion that 2018 was the result of Trump voters switching sides (stated repeatedly by a DU poster and echoed by others). I say false assumptions because of the following:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-moderate-middle-is-a-myth/

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/what-everyone-gets-wrong-about-independent-voters/

https://www.vox.com/2016/1/22/10814522/independents-voters-facts-myths

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/10/18076872/trump-46-percent-solition

Regarding the first 3 articles, those who self-identify as such and such are all over the map ideologically-speaking and the vast majority of so-called independents are completely wedded to a particular party. It's a myth that there's this large mass of astute, consistent middle-of-the-roaders with some well-defined "moderate" ideology, who are just waiting to see which party will put up the candidate closest to the center.

Many people, especially young people, are starving to vote for someone who dreams big and will fight for a future that isn't filled with misery (many people recognize that that's where we're headed with the status quo, Trump or no Trump). From the first article: "Anybody who claims to have the winning formula for winning moderate, independent or undecided voters is making things up. Perhaps more centrist policies will appeal to some voters in each of these categories — but so will more extreme policies." Many of those so-called "extreme policies" poll very, very well.

As for the 4th article, what happened is we saw Dems break turnout records. It wasn't that Trump voters switched sides, or that anti-Trump Republicans came to our rescue in droves. That simply isn't what happened. So, what did happen? Well, for instance, every single major ethnic and racial group had a greater increase in turnout from one midterm to the next (in this case, 2014 to 2018) than ever before in US history. And the age group that had the greatest increase in turnout between 2014 and 2018 was the 18-29 age group (20% in 2014 to 36% in 2018).

Yes, it's true that many moderates flipped districts (while some others lost statewide races for the US Senate). It's also true that some very progressive candidates got elected. We can have a more moderate candidate win a district while also having a very progressive candidate win a national election. Those aren't mutually exclusive events, especially at a time when the driving force in the US as a whole is an opposition to the status quo, a general sense that we're in grave danger and that the US is - in the words of Howard Zinn - "topsy-turvy." A whole lot of people desperately want fundamental change.

So, yeah, I think Sanders can win states such as PA, MI, AZ, etc. Regardless of who our nominee is, I think it'll be a close election.

[applegrove]

118. They'll flip the narrative by Russia helping Bernie and not Trump. Trump will run

on the narrative Russia never helped him. That Mueller was a hoax. That impeachment ignored crowdstrike and Ukraine helping Hillary. And the Russians will oblige by not helping him. Thus helping further the narrative that Trump has been hounded. That helps him. How many of his peeps were charged with crimes? 6 or so.