I think that the fact that no OTHER Senators 'told us a month ago' about the briefing ... matters

[mr_lebowski]

We're all trying to gauge what Bernie's motivations were for 'not telling us for a month' (which personally I think is no big deal myself in part because we've all known since 2016, but regardless), do we agree on that?

So, ostensibly, the 'reason(s)' for the lack of candor are important (or at minimum should be IF you're all upset about it), but we're unsure of those reasons, right?

Now ... one thing we DO know ... is that a group of Senators from both parties were privy to this information, that Putin was interfering on behalf of Sanders, about a month ago, right?

And we can logically presume that one of two situations exists with regards to the divulging of this information.

Case 1) They were told (and remember, the guy who's TELLING them this ... was part of Trump's Nat'l Security Team ... he's now fired, but ... at the time) that there's an ongoing counter-intelligence investigation going on, and that this information is classified and not meant for public consumption because that informs the target.
OR
Case 2) They were told they can do whatever they want with this information, that it's not important in a counter-intelligence investigation to NOT let the subject of the investigation KNOW that they're being investigated.

I would interject here that we already know how Trump himself feels about public discussion about Russia interfering in US elections. Does it not seem LIKELY that Trump's guy giving the briefing would tell them ... not to discuss it publicly, in light of how he knows his boss feels about the subject, if for no other reason?

Another thing we know: NOBODY ELSE, not just Bernie, but neither the GOP nor the Democratic Senators ... said anything for a month.

So lets consider the two above scenarios, WRT both GOP and Democratic Senators:

Case 1) Both Dems and GOP adhered to what they were told, and/or believed to be appropriate behavior with regards to the matter, and did not say anything. Bernie is just another of this group of people. Simple explanation, one that makes sense, and comports with facts that are known.

Case 2a) The GOP Senators - Given the complete go-ahead to divulge this information at will, a whole bunch of factors could come into play regarding what they logically do with this info.

One could argue they, like Trump, want Bernie to win the nomination, and they know Trump hates talk of Russian interference, so they kept quiet for that reason.

On the flip side is that this info provides the opportunity to put the Dems in array, damage the current front-runner, and (hopefully in their minds) taint the entire Democratic field, making it seem like 'Russia is out to cause chaos, they don't REALLY prefer Trump, they like Dems too!', and hope to make that argument successfully when it comes to general.

I would argue that the former is MORE likely, but by no means a certainty. Ergo, it's not unreasonable to question why, IF everyone was free to talk about this ... no Republicans decided to do so.

Case 2b) The Democrats - If they were free to talk about this info, we would certainly have expected all of them to come out of the briefing and promptly announce what is going on, because after all ... the People, the Voters ... deserve to know. RIGHT?

Democrats have been pounding the drum about Russian interference for 4 years now. This briefing, straight from the Trump Administration that Russia is interfering, even if it's on behalf of Sanders ... would be like catnip to them. They would be DYING to tell the public. Trumps people are admitting it FFS!

Especially given that it's very likely that other Dems who are high-ranked enough to receive this info ... support other options for the Dem candidate besides Bernie. AND Bernie's not a Democrat.

So there's almost no scenario I can conjure up where, if the Democrats were free to tell us, that it's LIKELY ... that they would not have done so immediately.

But if they DID fail to tell us ... then why isn't everyone just as mad at the rest of them for failing to do so? Particularly if you're arguing it was OH SO IMPORTANT that 'we voters were told'?

Now, a couple other points:

1) TTBOMK, Biden, Klobuchar, and Liz have (so far) declined to blast Sanders for having done something wrong. They are all in a position to know at minimum whether it was appropriate for Bernie to have kept his mouth shut about this. He's their main rival, but they don't seem to be blasting him for it. That seems ... pertinent to our little investigation, yeah?

2) TTBOMK, we don't know who eventually 'leaked' the contents of the briefing. In the event nobody was supposed to talk ... Bernie's apparent 'anger at the leak' ... makes a great deal of sense.

It also could inform us to why he called out both the Dem and GOP 'establishments' ... he doesn't KNOW who leaked, but suspects it was done to harm him before Nevada by one or the other.

Could easily have been a Democratic Senator who favors Joe or Amy or Liz. Hence he's pissed off, because they f***ed him, knowing it would make him look bad with other Dem voters for not divulging that intel himself. Which is working at least here on DU.

To sum up ... I honestly think that, when you stop and consider the totality of this situation ... the MOST LIKELY scenario ... is the Senators who were given this information, Bernie included, believed they were obligated NOT TO TELL THE PUBLIC.

Feel free to counter-argue against these observations in the comments below

[jmg257]

1. A LOT to read. I think the others didn't find out till last week when they got a classified brief.

along with trump.

Sanders campaign was told a month ago.

The Post's report was published the day after The New York Times reported that House lawmakers were told by U.S. officials last week that Russia was also attempting to interfere in the 2020 elections to help the campaign of President Trump.

Sanders told reporters on the campaign trail Friday that he was briefed on Russian interference efforts "about a month ago,

[Autumn]

2. I think that if Dems leadership was told and it was their choice to tell or not tell, nothing and

I mean nothing would have kept Nancy quite about this. The silence of the Democratic leadership on this tells me all I need to know. Nancy would have sounded the alarm.

[mr_lebowski]

5. They'd have been at microphones by the end of the day ...

if they believed they were free to disclose this info.

[jmg257]

11. Yep - once it went public with trump last week, all bets were off on keeping it secret.

[totodeinhere]

6. The Post article says that members of the House Intelligence Committee were

briefed at the same time that Senator Sanders was. So Democratic members of the committee were briefed.

[jmg257]

9. Im not sure..."A day after the 13 February briefing to the House intelligence committee"

The Washington Post reported on Friday U.S officials have briefed President Trump, other lawmakers on Capitol Hill and Sanders, who has recently become the frontrunner in the Democratic contest, that Russians are helping his campaign.

The Post's report was published the day after The New York Times reported that House lawmakers were told by U.S. officials last week that Russia was also attempting to interfere in the 2020 elections to help the campaign of President Trump.


Sanders told reporters on the campaign trail Friday that he was briefed on Russian interference efforts "about a month ago," speculating that the news of potential Russian interference efforts came out now because it was on the eve of the Nevada caucuses.

On Thursday, CNN and other outlets reported that the intelligence community's top election security official delivered a briefing to lawmakers last week warning them that the intelligence community believes Russia is already taking steps to interfere in the 2020 election to help Trump.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/21/politics/bernie-sanders-russia-election-interference/index.html

[Bev54]

3. Bernie was told separately

just like Trump campaign was told in 2016. He was fully free to make it public if he wanted, just not any classified information. He chose not to. Full stop.

[BlueIdaho]

31. Exactly...

People are conflating two different events. The Intelligence Committees of the House and Senate were briefed about Russian meddling writ large. Senator Sanders campaign was briefed because it is being directly impacted by Russia.

It is a mistake to assume all campaigns received the same kind of briefing Sanders goy.

[Midnight Writer]

4. So the Democratic Establishment was protecting Bernie from potential damage?

By sitting on the information that Bernie is being supported by Putin (at least in the primaries), for a month, a week, whatever, saving the Sander's campaign from political embarrassment.

[mr_lebowski]

8. I'm willing to argue both sides of this, to be clear ...

That SEEMS unlikely to me (and was not what I was arguing in my post) ... however, they could've been making the calculation that this being divulged could be used against the entire Democratic field by the GOP ...

As in ... "HEY LOOK Russia doesn't REALLY just Love Trump, they Love Dems too!" and try to taint the entire field, argue that Russia is just out for chaos.

Hard to know for sure. But it seems MORE likely to me that they'd talk immediately, or at least SOME ONE would.

[Prue]

7. It's really not that difficult

Bernie was told a month ago so that he and his campaign could take steps to protect themselves. The senators were told in a briefing a week ago and the story broke shortly after.

Bernie had an opportunity to be presidential and transparent unlike the current president but Bernie chose to remain silent. Bernie could have rallied his supporters and told them what was happening in an effort to reset the tone.

So the question isn't why didn't others reveal what they were told but why the presidential candidate didn't tell those he is trying to convince that he's the right choice for president.

[mr_lebowski]

18. Uh-huh ... okay ...

So here's what you're telling me ... a conversation something like this went down with in some secret room, with Bernie and someone from Trumps NatSec team ...

Trump Guy: Oh Hai, Bernie ... uh, we just this figured out and just wanted to let you know ... Russia and Putin are interfering to try to help you win the Primary!

Bernie: My GOD, that's terrible. The Intelligence Committee has heard of this, right?"

Trump Guy: Uh, actually ... nooooo ... we're not telling anybody else just yet. Just you!

Bernie: Really? Why would you do that?

Trump Guy: Well, we figured we need to tell you first, alone. We thought you might want to let your campaign people know, you know, to protect themselves!

Bernie: Are you saying people in my campaign are in Danger? From Russia? What are you doing about this? There's counter-intel investigation started, right?

Trump Guy: Ummm ... no, no they should be fine. We just thought you should maybe tell them!

Bernie: Well, wouldn't that be violating national security? What about the integrity of the investigation?

Trump Guy: Oh, there's no investigation or anything. No 'target' we're worried about knowing we're after them or anything. We just thought you should know, and, ya know, maybe tell your people and such. As a courtesy.

Bernie: So what you're saying is ... it doesn't matter if the whole world hears about this ... but yet you're only telling me, and not the rest of the Senators, so it's basically my word against the rest of the world ... do I have that straight?

Trump Guy: Well, yeah, basically. None of your colleagues need to know that America is again under attack or anything ... But ... YOU are free to go tell whoever you want that Putin is helping you out!

Bernie: Yeah, that sounds really smart ... I'll get right on that ... thanks for the 'tip'!

[Prue]

20. I'm not a fly

so I wasn't on the wall in the room where the conversation took place. (smirk)

Bernie had an opportunity to LEAD and tell the American people that he had been advised that russia had already begun their interference and HOW they were interfering so that voters could take precaution. He chose not to.

When someone's vote is at risk and you know about it what do you do........

a) keep it to yourself
b) share the information so others can protect themselves

What would someone who is claiming to be the best choice to represent and protect the American people do?

[mr_lebowski]

24. If you're Bernie, and only YOU know ... you have NO IDEA whether this was a complete set-up by Trump

Anybody with 1/2 a friggin' brain in that scenario, where Trump's people are ONLY TELLING HIM ... is going to think ... I DON'T BELIEVE THIS BULLSHIT.

Come on ... that is NOT how these things are supposed to be done.

[Prue]

26. You're peddling a Trump talking point

So, your argument is that the IC is all deep state and should not be trusted. Sounds like a trump argument to me.

Further, it's okay to be cautious what information you are given. The smart person would verify it and not walk away and say "nah, these are trump's people so I'm not even going to see if what they are telling me is true".

(eye roll)

Puh-lease. If that's how he handles briefings then he's no better than trump. We don't need another leader who dismisses career civil servant experts.

[mr_lebowski]

30. Well, I don't know who briefed him exactly, do you?

I was thinking it was likely a Trump appointee, but if it was a career civil servant, then yes, he should've believed them.

But here's the salient point, really ... was he led to believe that he was free to tell the whole world?

Is that really the LOGICAL presumption? I really don't think so. Much more likely is that he was told that the rest of the Senators would soon be informed and that he should keep this to himself as there's an investigation ongoing.

And even if told you were free to do so, would you DO IT, in his shoes? You got nobody else to back you ... AFA you know, your fellow Senators, who SHOULD know, for some reason ... do not. Trump is going to jump down your throat because he HATES talk of Russian interference, call you Crazy Bernie, say it never happened, etc. You yourself have no proof either way. And it's nothing but negative for you. You could be accused of violating national security yourself, in fact, you know you can't trust Trump and Co!

I think Bernie was put in an impossible position here, myself. That's why I'm sympathetic.

I would stand up for ALL our candidates in the same situation, to be clear.

[Prue]

34. He's been around the block a few times

You act as though Washington is new to him. He knows the different type of briefings that are given. He doesn't strike me as shy or unable to speak up and ask questions.

Look, I get it. He's your guy. He's promising people that everything will be free, no one will have to work again and America will miraculously become shangri la were everyone will be frolicking around without a care in the world. I live and work in DC so let me assure you ........nothing is going to change until McConnell and the other republican traitors are voted out.

Bernie knew what he could and couldn't share. He's counting on people being gullible. Don't fall in that trap.

[mr_lebowski]

36. Pete is actually my guy, that's what funny ...

Bernie is my last choice above Tulsi.

This is not about WHO is under fire, it's about WHY.

I defend all our candidates against defamation when warranted.

YOU don't know what he was free to share and NOT ... that's the point.

Nothing you just said was pertinent to anything I brought up, so ... have a nice day.

[Prue]

38. I enjoyed our exchange

Have a good evening.

[Fiendish Thingy]

10. The briefing to the senate was just last week on February 13

It appears that Sanders was briefed earlier, separately?

[jmg257]

13. Yes - seems so..."security official delivered a briefing to lawmakers last week"

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/21/politics/bernie-sanders-russia-election-interference/index.html

day after the 13 February briefing to the House intelligence committee,

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/21/bernie-sanders-russia-aid-campaign

Bernie said he found out "about a month ago".

[mr_lebowski]

21. See my post #18 ...

[jmg257]

22. Almost as long as the OP..Ill pass. Bernie does not argue re: who or how he was told.

So why the need to make up a conversation?

[mr_lebowski]

27. This isn't something like 'Hey, Bernie, your wife is getting some on the side' ...

This is national freaking security. This is an attack by a foreign country.

It is HIGHLY irregular for someone from the President's team ... to just go to ONE Senator, who's not even on the Intelligence Committee and who happens to be in the race against the President ... and tell him shit like this. And ONLY him.

Especially if he's then going to be told 'Go Ahead and Tell Whoever You Want!'

Which is the operating assumption being made by the people complaining.

It is very easy for me to understand why he would choose to wait until something just a BIT less sketchy around this subject ... happened.

[jmg257]

28. They did the same thing with trump in 2016. Why is it so hard to believe?

WASHINGTON — In the weeks after he became the Republican nominee on July 19, 2016, Donald Trump was warned that foreign adversaries, including Russia, would probably try to spy on and infiltrate his campaign, according to multiple government officials familiar with the matter.

The warning came in the form of a high-level counterintelligence briefing by senior FBI officials, the officials said. A similar briefing was given to Hillary Clinton, they added. They said the briefings, which are commonly provided to presidential nominees, were designed to educate the candidates and their top aides about potential threats from foreign spies.

The candidates were urged to alert the FBI about any suspicious overtures to their campaigns, the officials said.

[mr_lebowski]

32. Because that was a different time, and because Obama was in charge

and because we knew WAY LESS about such interference back then, AND because neither Trump nor Hillary WERE IN THE SENATE.

Are you telling me this article says that Hillary and Trump were informed BEFORE anyone in Intel Committee in the Senate?

Cause that's the supposed situation here.

And are you also saying you know that both were told that they were free to tell the FRIGGIN WORLD, which is the basis of the argument against Bernie ... he was FREE to do it ... but DIDN'T!!!?!!

Lastly, that's about Spying and Infiltration, NOT about Russia helping them win.

Which again, is ALSO the presumption that everyone is so sure about ... they know JUST WHAT Bernie was told ... Russia was HELPING HIM. Which is different than your article.

[jmg257]

33. Im not telling you anything -really. I actually forget what the point was! Bernie knew a month ago

Who what why how where he was told...no idea. Why he didn't spill - only could be conjecture.

House Committee - the 13th - why they didn't spill, no idea.

[mr_lebowski]

35. Okay ... well the whole point of the post is to try to figure out logically ...

Whether it's likely he was truly free to tell the whole world ... since everyone is holding his feet to the fire for ZOMG HE DIDN'T TELL US AND HE SHOULD'VE!!!

I think it's logical to assume he was told not to, and there are easily understandable potential reasons why he'd have chosen not to IF he was told in the initially briefing ... to go ahead and do it ... despite nobody in Senate Intel having even heard about it yet.

The candidate is NOT the one I expect to 'break the news to the world' about something like this.

[jmg257]

37. I agree. But he has to know its a bad look, so why not say why? Someone from his campaign

has said it was classified, but I have not seen anything conclusive.

Hes kicking ass in NV, so it may end up not mattering whether he said something or not, but I expect who ever is left may try to bring up russia as a gotcha.

For now no one is talking about it any more.

[stopdiggin]

12. I think this is over complicated

It's quite clear Sen. Sanders is not responsible for this (or any other) outside influence .. and reasonable and fair people acknowledge that. And .. reasons for not disclosing the same involve both self-interest and national.

It is well known .. at almost every "functional" level .. that the Russians will again attempt to foment discord and disruption in order to undermine our process (in both primary and general). Adding specific names to that already acknowledged scenario does nothing to immunize the process .. and could well do real damage.

Not really that complicated.

[CalFione]

14. Your whole long post is based on a lie

Bernie got a PRIVATE briefing a month ago.

The House Intel Committee got a briefing a week ago.


- No other Senators got a briefing.

- No other Democrats AT ALL got a briefing until a week ago.

[jmg257]

16. Well he did say "I think..." "I think that the fact that..."

[mr_lebowski]

19. See my post #18 ...

Whether it was week ago or a month ago, why didn't Democrats IMMEDIATELY, inform the public.

Hmmm?

[jmg257]

23. The public knew!! It was all over the news a week ago when they found out!

Even trump saw to that.

[mr_lebowski]

40. Democrats didn't go to the mike and announce it, though, did they? nt

[jmg257]

41. You are correct. That is a good question! Usually they are all over an op to chew up trump on.

[CalFione]

25. The only Democrats that we're briefed were the House intel committee

and it was a classified briefing, that House intel members cannot discuss.


Bernie was told in a private briefing that was NOT classified, and he was free to tell anyone.

[mr_lebowski]

39. Do you have proof that what Bernie was told he was informed he was free to tell the world

That someone from the IC came to him and informed him (and only him) that a foreign adversary is intervening against US law to corrupt our elections to his advantage?

If someone has it, I'm perfectly ready to accept it and call Bernie out for not doing so, at least to some extent.

No matter what, I don't really consider it his 'job', frankly, but I'd entertain the argument at least. He's also called out Russia interference many times, which is about what I'd expect from someone put in his situation.

[Hortensis]

15. Putin is using Sanders and Trump as weapons against the U.S.

When Russian missiles threaten to smash your world, spreading RT propaganda is probably not a useful reaction.

Maybe wonder about Putin's end game. What desperate state would he have to reduce the world's only superpower to that we would be unable to keep Russia from invading and controlling Finland, Poland, Germany, etcetera...? That's what Putin plans.

Chaos means societal breakdown. Starvation anyone?

[dweller]

17. another niggling thought that bothers me

may have no relation, but ...
it's not been news currently, but a few weeks ago wasn't it in the news
Rudy G was providing fuBarr with info from Ukraine to be examined by DOJ ?

i'm just wondering if there are dots here to connect?
🤔

✌🏼

[jg10003]

29. confusion, discord, infighting, distrust of election results.

Putin shouts "mission accomplished".