The party isn't a place for moderates anymore

[evertonfc]

it's lurching toward the very far left. Same thing happened with GOP as it went far right. The party of Clinton and Obama is a shell of itself as we have let a Democratic Socialist take over. We will pay a heavy price in November. I'll be ok. Some won't. After 25 years of working campaigns for DNC I'll be in Costa Rica full time in about 4-5 years. My conversations with actual operatives in the trenches and former campaign manager friends of mine are the same. Sanders can't win nationally. Moderates do and did in 18 and 19. Sanders endorsed candidates were defeated. Sanders only plays well in small areas of country. My guess on a good election night is Trump wins the EC easily, we lose 10-14 House seats and our Senate candidates all refuse to be seen with Sanders. Nightmare sceniro for moderates. You might even see a 3rd party candidate emerge. In fact, bet on it

[liberal N proud]

1. Very good way to lose the independent voters

[Garrett78]

8. The vast majority of "independents" are completely wedded to a particular party.

Read all 3 of the following:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-moderate-middle-is-a-myth/

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/what-everyone-gets-wrong-about-independent-voters/

https://www.vox.com/2016/1/22/10814522/independents-voters-facts-myths

[fleabiscuit]

46. +1

[Kablooie]

47. Good way to lose our Democracy. If Trump wins again USA will certainly become full fascist.

[OliverQ]

52. Bernie is beating Trump +18 with independents.

[DemocracyMouse]

91. Thank you! Some light in a dim smokey club...

[Nanjeanne]

2. Except for the fact that amongst moderates Bernie is coming in 2nd and when polled

about 2nd choices, Sanders is 2nd choice by Biden supporters.

Enjoy Costa Rica. It’s beautiful.

[Scotch-Irish]

21. Bingo!

+100000

[Garrett78]

3. Which moderates? Self-identified moderates are all over the ideological map.

People make the mistake of assuming everyone has the same definition. They don't. Not even close.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-moderate-middle-is-a-myth/

As the political scientists Donald Kinder and Nathan Kalmoe put it, after looking at five decades of public opinion research, “the moderate category seems less an ideological destination than a refuge for the innocent and the confused.”8 Similarly, political scientist David Broockman has also written about the meaninglessness of the “moderate” label, particularly as a predictor of centrism.

The takeaway is simple: As they must with independents, any pundit who talks about “moderates” as a key voting bloc begs that second follow-up question: Which moderates?9

The upshot of all this is that if you’re a campaign trying to appeal to independents, moderates or undecided voters — or a concerned citizen trying to make sense of these groups in the context of an election — policy and ideology aren’t good frames of reference. There just isn’t much in terms of policy or ideology that unites these groups.11

Anybody who claims to have the winning formula for winning moderate, independent or undecided voters is making things up. Perhaps more centrist policies will appeal to some voters in each of these categories — but so will more extreme policies.12

And come election day, these potential swing voters may not ultimately care all that much about policy. They don’t tend to identify themselves based on ideology, and they don’t follow politics all that closely.

[Prue]

4. I agree with your discussion title

The democratic party is changing and there doesn't seem to be room for moderates anymore. In fact, moderates don't seem to be very well thought of in the democratic party. Maybe the democrat and republican moderates can form their own party.

[relayerbob]

7. And take the country back from extremists

I'll in

[George II]

11. "Democrat" moderates?

[bluewater]

20. I am shocked by THAT post.

Advocating that "Democrat moderates" and "Republican moderates" form their own party?!?

[Prue]

25. Why?

What is so shocking that I think the democratic party under Sanders is too far left for some?

[bluewater]

27. "Maybe the democrat and republican moderates can form their own party."

I think your own words speak for themselves.

[Prue]

31. It is a bit funny but.....

if moderates are forced to choose Bernie and his free giveaways then they aren't going to feel represented. Pointing out that the centrists in both parties are being forced out may actually push them together.

[bluewater]

34. D-

lacks effort

[denem]

36. We've got a live one here !

[bronxiteforever]

78. +1

[blue cat]

66. I was just thinking the same thing

There needs to be a party for centrist if this party goes left-socialism.

[HeartlandProgressive]

76. No thank you.

You want a party for "centrists"?

Well, isn't that special.

[rockfordfile]

18. That's not true

Your post sounds like Russian propaganda

[Prue]

23. Yikes!

You don't have to agree with my position on this issue but don't accuse me of russia propraganda. That's a deflection and a cheap shot.

[Laelth]

29. +1 It was both.

If I haven't said so before, welcome to DU.



-Laelth

[mr_lebowski]

55. People are insinuating you're using 'Democrat' instead of 'Democratic' as a slight to Dems

Like Trump and Faux and such do.

Calling us the 'Democrat Party' is considered insulting.

Frankly this is a use case where I'm unsure which is technically correct

[Prue]

64. In was a innocent grammatical error

Gee - okay, I understand now. That wasn't my intent. It was a grammatical error on my part.

[charliea]

75. "Democrat": The Tell is the name

I've bitched about this to public radio stations in red states most of Obama's administration while I was a traveling consultant. It appeared to be common usage of the commentators, and I would register a complaint whenever I heard it. I think the DemocRat name is a Rush Limbaugh invention, but who cares. Those who use is it are deliberating trying to sully the Democratic party by associating it with 'rat'. It's to common a usage by RWNJs to be anything but a deliberate smear.

[charliea]

69. Really?

Do you actually think that there are any Republican Party members whose definition of moderate would align with a Democratic party member's idea? You'll have to present your definition of moderate, 'cause I don't believe that that's at all true. The current incarnation of the Republican party eschews truth, transparency, science, and in my opinion, democracy itself.
It's true I'm in a blue state but I've yet to meet a Democratic here who isn't for all those things.

[Prue]

74. Yes, the ones that have left the repub party

That's the whole point to my point. The never trumper republicans that have left and spoken out against trump don't have anywhere to go. We have an opportunity to pull them into the party to help us remove trump but I doubt they're going to come over when we're talking about giving everything away for free. It sounds like our party isn't really interested in bringing others in. Either march with Bernie or get the heck out. Is that the new mantra?

[cherryinpa]

5. What RU gonna do in CR? NT

[Gravitycollapse]

6. Holy cow. Calm down.

You lose an inch and call it a mile. Good lord.

[redstateblues]

9. I feel like the party is leaving me

November will be ugly.

[still_one]

10. The problem is too many moderates are running, and they are taking votes away from each other

Bloomberg is increasing that division

Let us see where SC leaves us

[IronLionZion]

12. Has the GOP lost their moderates from lurching far right?

somehow they still seem to control most of government

[bluewater]

14. +1000

[David__77]

13. It's a big tent.

Sometimes the candidates are to the "right" of the party spectrum, sometimes to the "left," not that I find those terms too useful.

[msongs]

16. except for establishment democrats who are not welcome nt

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

61. LMAO!! Let's be real... Bernie, despite bein the most popular politician in the country...

is the ONLY one who's been disparaged continuously and made to feel unwelcome in the Democratic Party!! This cannot possibly be disputed!!

Hopefully, now that Bernie looks to be the inevitable Democratic nominee, we can start the process of healing and uniting under the Bernie Banner to defeat the real enemy of the American people, tRumpty Dumbty!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[MarcA]

19. To Sunshine Patriot Centrists, anything to the left is very far left extremists. n/t

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

53. I agree the Democratic Party SHOULD be a big tent party, but seein how Bernie's been treated...

one has to wonder!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[Locrian]

83. entitlement angst is what you're seeing

There's a lot of entitlement angst among those who "just know" whats right for the party and the country as a whole.
Meanwhile, silly facts seem to be proving them wrong. Hence. Angst.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

15. It's We The People who decide the direction of the Party... thats why we're DEMOCRATS...

we believe in democracy!! And we've decided that the folks on Main Street, who's needs have gone unmet for FAR too long, are more important than the greedy elites on Wall Street, who are only interested in their never-ending corporate welfare and other forms of capitalistic socialism.

We're voting for Bernie to lead the Democratic Party precisely because he's the Champion of working class and low-income folks... it's better to just accept that reality and jump on the Bernie Bandwagon to unite the Democratic Party in defeating the Fascist-in-Chief!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[musette_sf]

26. "We're voting for Bernie to lead the Democratic Party"

...and Sen Sanders became a Democrat WHEN?

I am voting for a Democrat to lead the Democratic Party.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

32. When Bernie signed the paperwork to run & govern as a Democrat when he becomes the next POTUS.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[musette_sf]

38. I am a Democrat

and Sen Sanders is not a Democrat. Period.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

43. I consider Bernie to be a "Super Democrat" of sorts cuz he votes with the Democratic majority

more than most Democrats. You can't be more of a Democrat than that... but the again, Bernie caucuses with Democrats and serves as a member of the Senate Democratic leadership team. So yes, Bernie Is a Democrat in all the ways that matter!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[musette_sf]

49. "in all the ways that matter"

except declaring as a member of the Democratic party.

Dem voter here since 1972, and I well remember what happened that year.

[brooklynite]

33. I recall that the Labour Party activists decided what the Party was...

It didn't work out well.

[bluewater]

17. Is it me or is this OP anti-Democratic Party?

It's damn close, if it isn't.

There is even a person in this thread suggesting forming a THIRD party of "Democrat moderates" and "Republican moderates"!!!

[Garrett78]

24. It would be if a Sanders supporter said something similar.

Remember, different rules for different folks.

[brutus smith]

40. Yep, those moderates got us where we are today and it's not a good place.

[myohmy2]

22. with Bernie's...

...good looks wit and charm, not to mention his cool hairdo, Bernie will win over all those queasy moderates...

...let's give People something to vote for, not against...

...put next to Bernie's honesty, genuineness and integrity, trump will look like the pile of shit that he is...

...do you honestly believe most sane Americans will choose trump over Bernie?

...c'mon, I don't think so...

[underthematrix]

37. No one is gonna confuse Bernie with President Obama but nice try.

Bernie is pink, wrinkled with lovely white hair, bad teeth, hunched over body like an elderly dude, a forever pointing finger and a combative interpersonal style.

We're gonna have to wait til 2024 to get someone attractive and qualified. I'm praying it will be soon to be Senator Kennedy. Now he's fine, charming, sexy, tall, athletic, smart, well-educated, progressive, qualified and has that fantastic family legacy.

In the meantime we'll take what we can get to save our democracy..

[HarlanPepper]

60. Don't forget

The dandruff problem.

[underthematrix]

79. I didn't know about that. But I do like his white hair locks.

[HarlanPepper]

82. How could you miss it?

By the end of the debates it looks like Christmas at the North Pole.

[Laelth]

28. Oh, man. Where's my violin?

-Laelth

[SweetieD]

30. I just don't understand how saying we need to find a way to ensure health insurance and

Education for all Americans is far left. The hyperbole is ridiculous. People just want what most industrialized countries have.

[oregonjen]

73. Exactly!

[ChubbyStar]

35. Thanks for sharing

I like a gambling man!

[colsohlibgal]

39. Sanders Can Win

Once again the young voters skew ultra liberal. I am a Boomer and I do as well.

Trump is a disaster, I don’t get why a majority would not support Bernie to that.

[delisen]

41. Buck up! We are The liberal party in America

Our moderate label reflects our unwillingness to just tear down and destroy and to bully.

But we have to fight Putin now as well as the bullies . it is going to be a good fight and it will make us stronger and best able to dump Trump in Nov.

[brewens]

42. A lot of things moderates like are courtesy of socialists of the 19th and 20th centuries.

The centrist thing is like posting a car for sale for the price you hope to get. Then some guy gets you to come down a thousand bucks or so and you end up being disappointed. We didn't get a middle class by asking nicely for a little bit better working conditions.

[NRaleighLiberal]

44. man oh man....where the hell am I???

I'm 64....my views have been the same since as long as I can remember. The Democratic party has been leaving me as it races rightward.

It's a big tent, but I find myself barely covered.

[mgcgulfcoast]

45. I cant agree at all

I seem to remember the republicans all in a panic at how Trump couldnt win. Sanders is the only candidate on our side with an unwavering core of support. He is the MOST LIKELY to beat Trump, not least likely.

[YOHABLO]

48. Have a great time in Costa Rica. I heard it's beautiful down there.

[doc03]

50. Myself if Sanders wins the nomination I will

do what I can the take the Senate and hold the House.
I will vote for Sanders because he is better than the alternative but we will get clobbered.

[pecosbob]

51. The Democratic Party is not moving left...the Overton Window is

The American 'Left' is a few dozen people hanging out in coffee houses.

[bucolic_frolic]

54. Nixon's Silent Majority is hollowed out

You're right, the political spectrum is no longer a populated bell shaped curve. Voters, especially the young, will bask in the rewards of re-electing Trump: repression, fear, bankruptcy, and fighting his wars. Enjoy!

[Downtown Hound]

56. Oh, get over it

Moderates have won every primary since the 90's, and ended up having very mixed results in general elections despite usually winning the popular vote.

So a hard leftist wins one time, and you claim it's not safe for moderates anymore? Jeez. Hyperbole much?

[OliverQ]

57. Moderates are good at winning House districts.

No moderate has won the General presidential election this century. Why do you want to keep doing things that have not been working?

Who do you think Bernie is going to alienate? He's winning the youth vote by massive amounts. That was the largest voting block in 2018. He's winning the Latino vote by a lot. He's winning independents. He's doing very well with African Americans. Even Nicolle Wallace, a former Bush staffer and former Republican said she'd gladly vote for Bernie if he's the nominee.


So who do you think won't vote for Bernie? Republicans obviously, and Republican-leaning Independents who don't like being called Republican, but still vote that way. Neither group were going to vote for a Democrat anyway.

Do you realize nothing about Bernie is inherently far-left? We were electing people with Bernie style policies since the late 1920s at least. You would be claiming FDR is way too far left if he were running today, and he's arguably the 3rd best President in history.

[fleabiscuit]

58. It's deja vu all over again; thank you Yogi Berra.

I think that line once got me a hide. Go figure.

[yaesu]

59. there is never such a thing as too far to the left when you have been living in the extreme right

for decades. All I can say is, get ready for the U-turn.

[jberryhill]

62. Oh good golly, this thing has just got started

[gordianot]

63. True

[Kurt V.]

65. its more glacial than lurching. obama was ideologically not a moderate

but governed like the hand he was dealt but had his moments. tax increases on the more fortunate. the next left of moderate president will likely be similar.

[JCMach1]

67. Moderates better get behind the nominee if they want to win

Why doesn't this formula we have heard every cycle apply to them?

[Progressive dog]

68. I agree

Joe Lockhart was White House press secretary from 1998-2000 in President Bill Clinton's administration.

"The Democratic establishment gave us civil rights, voting rights, the assault weapons ban, social security and Medicare," tweeted longtime party strategist Joe Lockhart. "What have you done Senator?"

I don't believe the country is prepared to support a Democratic socialist, and I agree with the theory that Sanders would lose in a matchup against Trump. In a general election battle between two divisive figures who both preach the politics of grievance, I believe Trump will win the battle to the bottom and remain the last man standing.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/22/opinions/bloomberg-needs-to-take-down-sanders-lockhart/index.html
Lockhart is right, the actual accomplishments have been by the Democratic establishment.

[LonePirate]

70. Would those small areas of the country where he plays well in include Iowa, New Hampshire & Nevada?

[aikoaiko]

71. Sure there is room for moderates. Its a big tent.

If all goes well, moderates won't dominate or be the default anymore, but we all want the same things, basically.

[Gobbierella]

72. I'm not so sure

Maybe more people will come around to Sanders and maybe he'll moderate his positions if he wins the nomination. Most primaries are won with the base and then positions moderate as the general comes around. I have hope.

[rmoody1958]

77. I have seen this before

I have lived long enough to see this happen twice in my life. When others in the party don't like the choice for the party they either stay home or vote for a third party candidate. In both times we lost big. This last time was even worse since not only did we lose the presidency but more importantly the supreme court. Us moderates of the party have worked hard to slowly move the needle on things as marriage equality and women's rights. We know that it takes us to do this slowly to bring the other part of the country along. We also know that to win the electoral college we have to bring some of those votes from the independent and other moderate left leaning voters.. This helps us also win the House and Senate which any president will need to make any changes. This election is also important for at least one if not two supreme court justices. Blow this one on petty in fighting and the next generation will be under such a conservative judicial system for 40 years. Best of luck to all, I will support any Democrat candidate that is on the ticket but we also need to think about the big picture.

[Tweedy]

80. The primary has just begun

And all of our nominees, even Mayor Bloomberg, are infinitely preferable to the unindicted co-conspirator playing at president.

Why? Simply because none of them are sadists.

Labels are meaningless these days. What exactly are conservatives conserving as the bad actor tries to burn it all down? We can all see a lot of enabling, but no conserving.

Do believe we could beat this kleptocratic nonsense with a potted plant. Seems like everyday another friend, or associate states their unequivocal support for whoever the democrats nominate. Most of these folks are life long republicans. Many voted for the bad actor.

Agree with Senator Sanders it will be harder to take the Senate and keep the House at the midterms. He might win reelection, after all he has a ready made excuse-- he can blame us for not revolting (against him, should he win? He surely likes his 1960's jargon). Or he can blame whoever he thinks the "democratic establishment" is.

Maybe Senator Sanders will surprise us all in a good way. It does not look likely at the moment, I agree. Yet, the man is not a sadist so whatever else he may be, or whatever century he is stuck in (20th-- 1060's), he is a better choice than the president we have.

Take heart, nonetheless. It isn't over until a candidate reaches the magic number.

[warmfeet]

81. Bernie Sanders is too far left. Elizabeth Warren is too far left. Am I reading this correctly?

Members of DU, in good standing I might add, are suggesting that our party and our candidates are too far to the left. Interesting.

Bernie and Elizabeth would have been mainstream Democrats 40, 50, 60 years ago. Now they are too far to the left.

I'm beginning to think that I might be on the wrong website.

I may need to find a website for Democrats and join.

On a completely different note, and not at all related to this OP; I really don't like, or appreciate, trolls posting as Democrats.

I know that this is not possible on DU, but other websites are experiencing a marked uptick in disruptive trolling - just saying. Russians want djt to be president, Russians do not want a Democrat to be president.

[Blue_true]

84. Anyone who is past a certain age has seen this once before.

It ended very badly for us. McGovern was the ultimate dream of leftists. The flames of his defeat are still searing us today.

The "woke" people of today will find out the hard way that American life isn't a black and white affair, there are many shades of grey that are real and though the "woke" people deny that they exist, those shades of grey will still apply themselves, with very bad results for us.

Nixon at least had grudging respect for the rule of law, Trump does not. If Trump gets reelected easily, we are in unchartered waters that will be very dangerous for democracy.

I never thought that I would consider leaving this country, but the reality is it can become something that I can't abide. So I am thinking about Central Europe or Canada as a landing spot, Europe because it is largely the EU, so intellectual property stuff that I have would be applied internationally, except the US, but if I leave and help my family leave, people in the US would have to fend for themselves.

[Saviolo]

87. What, really?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287562011

Not only did he not have respect for the rule of law, not only is Trump modeling his behaviour on Nixon's (with the help of ultimate Nixon fanboy Roger Stone), but Trump isn't nearly as popular as Nixon, whose popularity was around 60% for most of the last year of his presidency.

[paleotn]

85. Ugh.

[Under The Radar]

86. Hang Tight, it is still early

Bernie can’t carry Super Tuesday, blasted there in 2016.
I agree we must have Moderates and Never Trumpers to gain a Royal Flush (WH, Senate, & House)

[LovingA2andMI]

88. ....

[Bradshaw3]

89. Oh baloney

It would be nice to see some actual facts posted along with one of the many whiny screeds on here today. Now you are all going to take your marbles and go home. The same people who were saying just days ago that we had to vote blue no matter who and on and on. Wipe the tears and go work for your candidate and if another one wins, vote for them.


And, puhhleeze, stop with the crying and end of the world posts. They are ridiculous.

[Lord Ludd]

90. Horse Hockey

Last edited Sat Feb 22, 2020, 10:16 PM - Edit history (1)

In 2008, Obama ran as a progressive & won overwhelmingly.
In 2012, Obama the moderate won less convincingly, even with the huge advantage of incumbency.
In 2016, Clinton the moderate (at best!) won the pop vote but lost the EC. I submit that either Sanders or Warren would have roasted Fuck l'Orange in both venues.
You mods had your say; my turn.

[dflprincess]

92. "Lurching far left"

back toward the social policies of FDR, Truman, and LBJ....only this time including everybody.

[Mr.Bill]

93. All I know is that in November

I'm voting for whichever candidate does not begin his or her day spray painting themselves orange.

This alone should guide the vote of any sane person.

[Gore1FL]

94. Your defintion of far left is where the Democrats were in the 1970s.

It is tragic how republican talking points have taken root in the last 40 years. Progressive values even scare Democrats, now, apparently.