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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

Renew Deal

(81,852 posts)
Sun Feb 23, 2020, 01:25 AM Feb 2020

Another possibility at the convention... Candidates combine delegates to make a ticket

"In 2020, there will be 4,750 delegates: 3,979 pledged delegates and 771 automatic delegates—more commonly known as superdelegates.[1]" https://ballotpedia.org/Democratic_delegate_rules,_2020

Magic number is 1990

If the numbers look like this, no one has reached the magic number.

Sanders 1500
Buttigieg 850
Biden 750
Bloomberg 600
Others 279

Then Super Delegates come into play and the new magic number is 2375. Leave aside the possibility of Biden wanting to be VP a second time. I doubt that will happen. The fun really starts. If Buttigieg and Biden team up, they are at 1600 and need almost all of the Super Delegates. (This scenario makes the "Democratic Establishment" attacks a particularly dumb move.) Sanders and Warren team up and they get to around 1650 (which is looking more far fetched by the day).

The point is that if the candidates team up at the convention, they can assemble a winning coalition. It's not Sanders or Biden or Buttigieg against the world at that point. It could be Biden/Buttigieg, with Klobuchar as Secretary of Something.

The opposite can also happen. Sanders wins almost everything going into and out of Super Tuesday. Then the primary will be conventional. It will be like Kerry '04.

Just something to add to the long list of things to think about.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
15 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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juliuswest

(57 posts)
1. Delegates are released if it's a brokered convention, they aren't tied to the candidate
Sun Feb 23, 2020, 01:38 AM
Feb 2020
Once the first ballot, or vote, has occurred, and no candidate has a majority of the delegates' votes, the convention is then considered brokered; thereafter, the nomination is decided through a process of alternating political horse trading—(super) delegate vote trading—and additional re-votes.[1][2][3][4] In this circumstance, all regular delegates (who may have been pledged to a particular candidate according to rules which vary from state to state) are "released" and are able to switch their allegiance to a different candidate before the next round of balloting. It is hoped that this extra privilege extended to the delegates will result in a re-vote yielding a clear majority of delegates for one candidate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brokered_convention

Bernie's delegates could ostensibly switch to another candidate and vice versa, but as it is right now looking at the caucus reallocation (just from Nevada, Iowa not sure) after other candidates didn't reach viability, Sanders gained the most votes.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Moderateguy

(945 posts)
3. Delegates are usually the candidates biggest supporters
Sun Feb 23, 2020, 01:46 AM
Feb 2020

And we know how Bernie’s supporters feel about him so I don’t expect they will switch

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

democrattotheend

(11,605 posts)
15. If 2016 is any indication, I don't see Bernie's delegates budging
Sun Feb 23, 2020, 03:02 AM
Feb 2020

So the other candidates would have to come together to pick.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Fiendish Thingy

(15,568 posts)
2. If those are the final delegate numbers, choosing someone other than Sanders would be suicide
Sun Feb 23, 2020, 01:43 AM
Feb 2020

David Plouffe has said if the Dems pick someone other than the delegate leader, it would take “a generation” for the party to recover.

This is especially true if Sanders’ lead is as great as described in the OP.

The ONLY way to mathematically defeat Sanders is if all but one other candidate drops out BEFORE Super Tuesday, leaving a single candidate to go head to head with Sanders. Then, and only then, would there be a chance for someone other than Sanders to win a majority of delegates ahead of the convention.

The candidates have one week to draw straws, or whatever, and “consolidate” behind a single candidate. I’m pretty sure their egos and aspirations won’t permit that to happen, and so, when you get ready to point the finger of blame, make sure you include the candidates who ignored the only possible path to deny Sanders the nomination without dividing and destroying any chance at party unity before the general election.

And that is something else to add to the list of things to think about...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Renew Deal

(81,852 posts)
5. Realistically, I dont think Warren and Klobuchar make it past Super Tuesday.
Sun Feb 23, 2020, 01:56 AM
Feb 2020

Steyers future is doubtful too. Then it's down to Biden, Buttigieg, and Bloomberg. We'll have to see how things look at that point. Biden could be gone if he loses SC.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

booley

(3,855 posts)
7. I think time to do that is long passed.
Sun Feb 23, 2020, 02:12 AM
Feb 2020

Not that I am upset about that obviously. I fully admit my bias. But I also think logic supports my position here.

Frankly, the problem with the other candidates is that it much of their support and surges always been a reaction against Sanders. Most didn't' seem to be for a candidate. They wanted someone to beat Sanders. And as each has failed, that support flits to the next. and the next.

As has been shown numerous times, when you are only against someone and not for someone, you lose.

I should also point out, as I have many times, we should not assume if a centrist drops out that all of those votes would go to another centrist. Last I checked, if Biden left, almost a third of his supporters would switch to Sanders. Same with Warren. Even 11% of Bloomberg supporters would go to Sanders. People in general just don't' have this animus against Sanders that some on DU seem to have.

So obviously candidates dropping out helps Sanders. IF someone wanted to use delegate math to cheat... I mean get more delegates than Sanders.. the trick would be to have the other candidates drop out as late as possible, maybe even up to the convention so voters would no longer get a say. Then go do a brokered convention. Which as you correctly point out would be suicide.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

booley

(3,855 posts)
4. it would be essentally a middle finger to millions of voters
Sun Feb 23, 2020, 01:53 AM
Feb 2020

especially after we have spent years saying how wrong it is for the person with fewer votes to win.

Remember when Gore got more votes? Remember when Hillary Clinton got 3 million more votes? Remember how upset we said we were about them not winning?

Were we just kidding that whole time?

And no don't' give me that "If we combine the moderates all together" Because if you look at the voters second choices, Sanders comes out ahead. Just because someone voted for Biden doesn't' necessarily mean they also wanted Buttigieg or Bloomberg.

IF a candidate (by which we mean Sanders)gets a majority and yet doesn't become the nominee, it will suppress the vote. Trump will win, as Republicans always seem to when the margin is close.

And mark my words, this will destroy the Democratic party. No one will trust the DNC again.

We are Democrats. We should trust in Democracy. Its literally in the name.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Renew Deal

(81,852 posts)
6. We don't have a straight popular vote system
Sun Feb 23, 2020, 01:58 AM
Feb 2020

I would buy the democracy argument if we did, but we don't. And there is nothing undemocratic about two candidates combining to resolve a deadlock.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Dopers_Greed

(2,640 posts)
10. Exactly
Sun Feb 23, 2020, 02:16 AM
Feb 2020

Are run-off elections un-democratic then?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

booley

(3,855 posts)
11. well thats is a common argument for the electoral college
Sun Feb 23, 2020, 02:30 AM
Feb 2020

Which I thought we didn't like. I sure remember a lot of Democrats saying the popular vote winner should win. I guess we don't' believe that after all?

But anyway there would be no deadlock. In this scenario, Sanders would clearly have more votes.

If it were just two candidates and they were close I could see it. If the runner up had gotton 47% of the ote, that is a large chunk whose views should be taken into account. And with two canidates we have less guss work on who would have been the second choice if things had worked out differently.

But we don't' have that here right now.

The central assumption is that somehow any non-Sanders vote is interchangeable with any other. That is not born out by the facts. just because someone voted for Biden for Warren or whomever, we cant' assume they wanted anybody but Sanders.

again, this would be the DNC telling its base "Your vote only matters when we say it does"

We cant' afford this kind of foolishness. Not if we want to beat Trump.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Dopers_Greed

(2,640 posts)
14. Apples to oranges
Sun Feb 23, 2020, 02:50 AM
Feb 2020

A two-way general election is not the same as a crowded primary.

You are arguing that the rules should not apply, because throwing out the rules would benefit your candidate.

Some of the other Dem candidates got ZERO delegates, even though they received x% of the popular vote.

The "must have over 15%" rule is un-democratic, right?

How would you feel about taking some of Sander's delegates away, and giving them to Gabbard, Steyer, Biden, Warren?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dopers_Greed

(2,640 posts)
9. Sanders mathematically can't win a majority
Sun Feb 23, 2020, 02:15 AM
Feb 2020

If he did, then there wouldn't be a brokered convention.

A plurality, yes, he could get that.

And no one trusts the DNC anyway now. From what I hear, they are a malevolent organization committed to rigging elections (but somehow so incompetent that their "puppet" candidate doesn't win even when they rig).

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

booley

(3,855 posts)
13. well that i a misrepresention of it
Sun Feb 23, 2020, 02:33 AM
Feb 2020

but ok sure.

Maybe you can explain why thousands of people in Michigan went to vote and left the President part blank.

they are a malevolent organization committed to rigging elections (but somehow so incompetent that their "puppet" candidate doesn't win even when they rig)


We seem to have no problem accepting when this happens with Republicans.

Or are we to believe that the GOP held off in its usual tricks in 2008 and 2012?

In any case why the heck would we take the chance even for the perception that could suppress the vote?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

HarlanPepper

(2,042 posts)
12. If Bernie can't get to 1991 before the convention he won't be the nominee.
Sun Feb 23, 2020, 02:32 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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