Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumAnother possibility at the convention... Candidates combine delegates to make a ticket
"In 2020, there will be 4,750 delegates: 3,979 pledged delegates and 771 automatic delegatesmore commonly known as superdelegates.[1]" https://ballotpedia.org/Democratic_delegate_rules,_2020
Magic number is 1990
If the numbers look like this, no one has reached the magic number.
Sanders 1500
Buttigieg 850
Biden 750
Bloomberg 600
Others 279
Then Super Delegates come into play and the new magic number is 2375. Leave aside the possibility of Biden wanting to be VP a second time. I doubt that will happen. The fun really starts. If Buttigieg and Biden team up, they are at 1600 and need almost all of the Super Delegates. (This scenario makes the "Democratic Establishment" attacks a particularly dumb move.) Sanders and Warren team up and they get to around 1650 (which is looking more far fetched by the day).
The point is that if the candidates team up at the convention, they can assemble a winning coalition. It's not Sanders or Biden or Buttigieg against the world at that point. It could be Biden/Buttigieg, with Klobuchar as Secretary of Something.
The opposite can also happen. Sanders wins almost everything going into and out of Super Tuesday. Then the primary will be conventional. It will be like Kerry '04.
Just something to add to the long list of things to think about.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
juliuswest
(57 posts)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brokered_convention
Bernie's delegates could ostensibly switch to another candidate and vice versa, but as it is right now looking at the caucus reallocation (just from Nevada, Iowa not sure) after other candidates didn't reach viability, Sanders gained the most votes.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Moderateguy
(945 posts)And we know how Bernies supporters feel about him so I dont expect they will switch
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)So the other candidates would have to come together to pick.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Fiendish Thingy
(15,568 posts)David Plouffe has said if the Dems pick someone other than the delegate leader, it would take a generation for the party to recover.
This is especially true if Sanders lead is as great as described in the OP.
The ONLY way to mathematically defeat Sanders is if all but one other candidate drops out BEFORE Super Tuesday, leaving a single candidate to go head to head with Sanders. Then, and only then, would there be a chance for someone other than Sanders to win a majority of delegates ahead of the convention.
The candidates have one week to draw straws, or whatever, and consolidate behind a single candidate. Im pretty sure their egos and aspirations wont permit that to happen, and so, when you get ready to point the finger of blame, make sure you include the candidates who ignored the only possible path to deny Sanders the nomination without dividing and destroying any chance at party unity before the general election.
And that is something else to add to the list of things to think about...
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Renew Deal
(81,852 posts)Steyers future is doubtful too. Then it's down to Biden, Buttigieg, and Bloomberg. We'll have to see how things look at that point. Biden could be gone if he loses SC.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
booley
(3,855 posts)Not that I am upset about that obviously. I fully admit my bias. But I also think logic supports my position here.
Frankly, the problem with the other candidates is that it much of their support and surges always been a reaction against Sanders. Most didn't' seem to be for a candidate. They wanted someone to beat Sanders. And as each has failed, that support flits to the next. and the next.
As has been shown numerous times, when you are only against someone and not for someone, you lose.
I should also point out, as I have many times, we should not assume if a centrist drops out that all of those votes would go to another centrist. Last I checked, if Biden left, almost a third of his supporters would switch to Sanders. Same with Warren. Even 11% of Bloomberg supporters would go to Sanders. People in general just don't' have this animus against Sanders that some on DU seem to have.
So obviously candidates dropping out helps Sanders. IF someone wanted to use delegate math to cheat... I mean get more delegates than Sanders.. the trick would be to have the other candidates drop out as late as possible, maybe even up to the convention so voters would no longer get a say. Then go do a brokered convention. Which as you correctly point out would be suicide.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
booley
(3,855 posts)especially after we have spent years saying how wrong it is for the person with fewer votes to win.
Remember when Gore got more votes? Remember when Hillary Clinton got 3 million more votes? Remember how upset we said we were about them not winning?
Were we just kidding that whole time?
And no don't' give me that "If we combine the moderates all together" Because if you look at the voters second choices, Sanders comes out ahead. Just because someone voted for Biden doesn't' necessarily mean they also wanted Buttigieg or Bloomberg.
IF a candidate (by which we mean Sanders)gets a majority and yet doesn't become the nominee, it will suppress the vote. Trump will win, as Republicans always seem to when the margin is close.
And mark my words, this will destroy the Democratic party. No one will trust the DNC again.
We are Democrats. We should trust in Democracy. Its literally in the name.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Renew Deal
(81,852 posts)I would buy the democracy argument if we did, but we don't. And there is nothing undemocratic about two candidates combining to resolve a deadlock.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Moderateguy
(945 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Dopers_Greed
(2,640 posts)Are run-off elections un-democratic then?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
booley
(3,855 posts)Which I thought we didn't like. I sure remember a lot of Democrats saying the popular vote winner should win. I guess we don't' believe that after all?
But anyway there would be no deadlock. In this scenario, Sanders would clearly have more votes.
If it were just two candidates and they were close I could see it. If the runner up had gotton 47% of the ote, that is a large chunk whose views should be taken into account. And with two canidates we have less guss work on who would have been the second choice if things had worked out differently.
But we don't' have that here right now.
The central assumption is that somehow any non-Sanders vote is interchangeable with any other. That is not born out by the facts. just because someone voted for Biden for Warren or whomever, we cant' assume they wanted anybody but Sanders.
again, this would be the DNC telling its base "Your vote only matters when we say it does"
We cant' afford this kind of foolishness. Not if we want to beat Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Dopers_Greed
(2,640 posts)A two-way general election is not the same as a crowded primary.
You are arguing that the rules should not apply, because throwing out the rules would benefit your candidate.
Some of the other Dem candidates got ZERO delegates, even though they received x% of the popular vote.
The "must have over 15%" rule is un-democratic, right?
How would you feel about taking some of Sander's delegates away, and giving them to Gabbard, Steyer, Biden, Warren?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dopers_Greed
(2,640 posts)If he did, then there wouldn't be a brokered convention.
A plurality, yes, he could get that.
And no one trusts the DNC anyway now. From what I hear, they are a malevolent organization committed to rigging elections (but somehow so incompetent that their "puppet" candidate doesn't win even when they rig).
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
booley
(3,855 posts)but ok sure.
Maybe you can explain why thousands of people in Michigan went to vote and left the President part blank.
We seem to have no problem accepting when this happens with Republicans.
Or are we to believe that the GOP held off in its usual tricks in 2008 and 2012?
In any case why the heck would we take the chance even for the perception that could suppress the vote?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden