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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 04:37 PM

 

Fred Guttenberg harsh words for Bernie


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Reply Fred Guttenberg harsh words for Bernie (Original post)
EveHammond13 Feb 2020 OP
jmg257 Feb 2020 #1
NurseJackie Feb 2020 #2
JFlash Feb 2020 #3
W_HAMILTON Feb 2020 #11
Blue_true Feb 2020 #17
Cuthbert Allgood Feb 2020 #25
Blue_true Feb 2020 #26
Julian English Feb 2020 #27
Cha Feb 2020 #4
rzemanfl Feb 2020 #5
peggysue2 Feb 2020 #6
PADemD Feb 2020 #7
octoberlib Feb 2020 #15
Blue_true Feb 2020 #18
LineLineReply :
onecaliberal Feb 2020 #31
HarlanPepper Feb 2020 #8
wundermaus Feb 2020 #9
Butterflylady Feb 2020 #28
lapucelle Feb 2020 #37
lapucelle Feb 2020 #35
aikoaiko Feb 2020 #10
Nanjeanne Feb 2020 #13
W_HAMILTON Feb 2020 #14
aikoaiko Feb 2020 #19
W_HAMILTON Feb 2020 #21
aikoaiko Feb 2020 #22
Moderateguy Feb 2020 #16
Blue_true Feb 2020 #20
aikoaiko Feb 2020 #23
Blue_true Feb 2020 #24
Butterflylady Feb 2020 #29
Devil Child Feb 2020 #34
JaneQPublic Feb 2020 #12
Devil Child Feb 2020 #30
lapucelle Feb 2020 #42
Devil Child Feb 2020 #43
lapucelle Feb 2020 #45
lapucelle Feb 2020 #32
lapucelle Feb 2020 #33
aikoaiko Feb 2020 #38
lapucelle Feb 2020 #39
aikoaiko Feb 2020 #40
lapucelle Feb 2020 #41
highplainsdem Feb 2020 #36
betsuni Feb 2020 #44

Response to EveHammond13 (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 04:41 PM

1. Wow Fred saying Bernie is being backed by Russia?? That will go well!

 

LOVE me a good conspiracy!!


Key Points
Take on the NRA and its corrupting effect on Washington.

Expand background checks.
End the gun show loophole. All gun purchases should be subject to the same background check standards.
Ban the sale and distribution of assault weapons. Assault weapons are designed and sold as tools of war. There is absolutely no reason why these firearms should be sold to civilians.
Prohibit high-capacity ammunition magazines.
Implement a buyback program to get assault weapons off the streets.
Regulate assault weapons in the same way that we currently regulate fully automatic weapons — a system that essentially makes them unlawful to own.
Crack down on “straw purchases” where people buy guns for criminals.
Support “red flag” laws and legislation to ensure we keep guns out of the hands of domestic abusers and stalkers
Ban the 3-D printing of firearms and bump stocks
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to EveHammond13 (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 04:41 PM

2. Fred Guttenberg speaks for me!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to EveHammond13 (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 04:43 PM

3. Bernie will advocate for banning assault weapons and universal background checks

 

I'm pretty sure the NRA does not support that.

If what Mr. Guttenberg wants is door to door confiscation of guns, then that ship has sailed when Beto fizzled out. Maybe try Bloomberg.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to JFlash (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 06:17 PM

11. Can he work those things into the same mini-stump speech he answers every debate question with?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to JFlash (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 06:29 PM

17. Can he undo his vote to give gunmakers blanket immunity?

 

Can he take back his several votes to allow Saturday Night Special guns onto big city streets? As horrible as they are, assualt weapons have killed a couple hundred people, guns on urban streets kill 30,000+ per year.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Blue_true (Reply #17)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 07:54 PM

25. What other industry is held liable for misuse of their product?

 

Bernie is to the right of me on guns, for the most part, but I don't think he was wrong on the "immunity."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #25)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 08:06 PM

26. The Pharmaceutical industry. The consumer drug industry. To name two.

 

The auto industry. Bernie voted to make gunmakers beyond lawsuits, no other industry enjoys that level of blanket immunity.

Bernie must answer for his votes on guns, simple as that. The other candidates have been fools not to pin him on that, though Bloomberg seems to have taken off the gloves.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #25)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 08:10 PM

27. 1.Killing is an intended use of a gun. 2. industries can be liable for misuse--like opioid makers

 

1. Guns, especially assault type weapons with big magazines and most handguns are made for killing people. They have no other use.

2. Industries are routinely held liable for excessively dangerous products, espeically when the industry floods the market with them. Look at Big Pharma and the opioid crises. Take a course in tort law if you want hundreds more examples.

The exemption for the gunmakers from tort liability is unique among dangerous products.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to EveHammond13 (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 04:45 PM

4. Good on Fred Guttenberg!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Cha (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 04:50 PM

5. +1 n/t

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to EveHammond13 (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 05:24 PM

6. Whoosh!

 

I'll stand with Fred Guttenberg, thank you very much.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to EveHammond13 (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 05:34 PM

7. Seriously, who is Fred Guttenberg?

 

And why should I care what he thinks?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to PADemD (Reply #7)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 06:22 PM

15. Fred Guttenberg's daughter was murdered at the Parkland mass shooting.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to PADemD (Reply #7)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 06:31 PM

18. Wow. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to PADemD (Reply #7)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 08:33 PM

31. :

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to EveHammond13 (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 05:35 PM

8. Uh oh

 

Fred is a traitor to the revolution and must be silenced.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to EveHammond13 (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 05:56 PM

9. Fact check

 

I am sick and tired of candidates who have shown that they are afraid of the NRA. -
https://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-gun-policy/

Gun Control: Gun control legislation should ultimately fall on individual states, with the exception of a federal ban on assault weapons and instant background checks to prevent firearms from finding their way into the hands of criminals and the mentally ill.

Manufacturer Liability: Gun manufacturers should not be held liable for the misuse of their products, just as any other industry isn’t held accountable for how end-consumers use their products.

Improve Mental Health: Gun control is not the only solution to curbing the epidemic of gun violence. There must be other efforts to assist those with mental health issues in order to prevent suicides by firearms or mass shootings at public places.

Take On The NRA: The National Rifle Association (NRA) is a powerful lobbying group with too much influence over gun legislation. Bernie wants to take on the NRA and limit their political influence so we can pass meaningful gun reforms.

I am sick and tired of candidates who are backed by Russia. -

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/21/bernie-sanders-russia-aid-campaign

the Vermont senator denounced the reported efforts by Moscow to interfere with the 2020 election on his behalf.

“Unlike Donald Trump, I do not consider Vladimir Putin a good friend. He is an autocratic thug who is attempting to destroy democracy and crush dissent in Russia,” Sanders said of the Russian president.

“Let’s be clear, the Russians want to undermine American democracy by dividing us up and, unlike the current president, I stand firmly against their efforts, and any other foreign power that wants to interfere in our election.”

Sanders also suggested some of the online vitriol frequently blamed on his supporters may be coming from Russia. “Some of the ugly stuff on the internet attributed to our campaign may well not be coming from real supporters,” Sanders said.

I am sick and tired of you causing Trump to be elected to our White House.

Now that is a matter of opinion and factually not accurate.

https://www.newsweek.com/72-democratic-voters-believe-bernie-sanders-would-beat-trump-2020-election-new-poll-shows-1488010

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/02/09/bernie-sanders-could-beat-donald-trump-2020-column/4694526002/

It all depends on which polls you choose to believe that forms your opinion.

In large part, it is up to the cohesiveness of the Democratic party.
United we will divided we lose.
It is entirely up to us.
So, in the final analysis, we the people hold the answer in how we act whether or not Trump wins.
In your terms - your choice is Democratic Socialism or Fascism.
In my terms - my choice is Democratic Socialism or Fascism.
I vote for Democratic Socialism.
What is your vote?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to wundermaus (Reply #9)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 08:24 PM

28. I missed something

 

When did the conversation go from Fred Guttenberg and guns to Russian interference?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Butterflylady (Reply #28)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 09:30 PM

37. ''I am sick and tired of candidates who have shown that they are afraid of the NRA''...

 

...''I am sick and tired of candidates who are backed by Russia''.

Apparently these are two things that BS is sick and tired of.

BS is sick and tired of candidates who do the NRA's bidding in order to preserve their political careers.
BS is sick and tired of candidates who are being promoted by the Russians.

So am I.




If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to wundermaus (Reply #9)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 09:16 PM

35. My vote is for The Brady Bill, against the PLCAA,

 

and aligns with core principles articulated in the Democratic Party platform.

Preventing Gun Violence

With 33,000 Americans dying every year, Democrats believe that we must finally take sensible action to address gun violence. While responsible gun ownership is part of the fabric of many communities, too many families in America have suffered from gun violence. We can respect the rights of responsible gun owners while keeping our communities safe.

To build on the success of the lifesaving Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, we will expand and strengthen background checks and close dangerous loopholes in our current laws; repeal the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA) to revoke the dangerous legal immunity protections gun makers and sellers now enjoy; and keep weapons of war—such as assault weapons and large capacity ammunition magazines (LCAM’s)—off our streets.


******************************************************************************************

No wonder Fred Guttenberg is angry.




If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to EveHammond13 (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 05:59 PM

10. Is Fred Guttenberg on the Bloomberg payroll? Directly or indirectly through...

 


...anti-gun organizations?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 06:17 PM

13. It's a question for sure. Meanwhile March For Our Lives Co-Founders Endorsed Bernie.

 

Delaney Tarr
Ryan Deitsch
Chris Grady

I believe Ryan Deitsch is also working on the campaign with Bernie on gun violence.

I feel for Mr. Guttenberg and I understand his passion against guns - his hatred of Bernie is quite over the top and his adoration of Bloomberg is a bit suspect - but money does talk and Bloomberg is definitely a supporter of Everytown For Gun Safety so it's reasonable that Guttenberg supports him. I think he would be a better spokesperson if he didn't sound so extreme - but he's a man who lost a great deal so my heart goes out to him.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 06:19 PM

14. He's gone after Sanders and his pro-gun history long before Bloomberg was a thing.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to W_HAMILTON (Reply #14)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 06:33 PM

19. Bloomberg has been funding activists for a much longer time.

 


He started putting more money into foundations who hired the activists.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #19)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 06:37 PM

21. Oh please. He turned into an anti-gun activist when his daughter was murdered in a school shooting.

 

Stop it with the cruel conspiracy theories.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to W_HAMILTON (Reply #21)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 07:13 PM

22. Yes, and now Bloomberg is running for the Democratic nomination.

 


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 06:24 PM

16. Yes because a father who lost their child to gun violence

 

would be against guns only if someone paid him.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 06:34 PM

20. He has been against Bernie on guns from the beginning.

 

When Bernie hogged a bullhorn at a rally shortly after Parkland, Guttenberg went ballistic and pointed out Bernie's pro guns record even then.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Blue_true (Reply #20)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 07:16 PM

23. His bitterness toward Bernie seems to originate from him challenging HRC

 


As his tweet in the OP acknowledges.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 07:51 PM

24. He may have been for HRC. Bernie's role on guns was a issue then.

 

But then the man's young child was murdered by a gun, so if he had issues with Bernie and guns in 16, those issues skyrocketed with the murder of his daughter.

I am absolutely no fan of how Bernie has ducked his record on guns and even crime bills.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 08:25 PM

29. Really!!!!!!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 08:50 PM

34. I wouldn't be surprised to find out he is n/t

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to EveHammond13 (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 06:17 PM

12. Fred has been getting pounder by Bernie supporters...

 

...either real or troll.

The more they harass him, the more outspokenly anti-Bernie he becomes.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to EveHammond13 (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 08:30 PM

30. Lol, hey Fred looks like voters are quite comfortable with Sen. Sanders!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Devil Child (Reply #30)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 10:45 PM

42. ''Let's laugh at Fred Guttenberg''.

 



If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #42)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 10:52 PM

43. No sarcasm tag needed AFAIC

 

I’m no fan of his.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Devil Child (Reply #43)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 10:59 PM

45. Then don't use one when you post.

 

Meanwhile...






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Response to EveHammond13 (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 08:37 PM

32. NRA: PLCAA is the most signigicant Piece of pro-gun legislation in 20 years

 

What is PLCAA?

In the late 1990s, more than 40 cities filed suit against the gun industry, naming dozens of gun manufacturers, distributors, and dealers as defendants. American cities had seen incredible violence in the previous decades, much of it involving handguns and connected to drug crime. City governments wanted redress, and legal victories in suits against the tobacco industry signalled that an avenue to reform might pass through the courts.

So they sued. The cases were aggressive, arguing that the entire industry should acknowledge responsibility for thousands of deaths each year. Fearing widespread reform, the National Rifle Association and the National Shooting Sports Foundation — the industry’s chief lobbying forces — launched an aggressive campaign to convince gun-friendly legislators to do something. Senator Larry Craig of Idaho and Representative Cliff Stearns of Florida, both Republicans, responded by proposing a piece of legislation that would end all pending litigation and prevent any future attempts. The NRA called it “the most significant piece of pro-gun legislation in 20 years.” It moved from introduction to President George W. Bush’s desk in eight months.

In October 2005, Bush signed PLCAA into law. It blocked any lawsuit seeking damages from the industry for the unlawful use of a gun.

snip==================================================================

What is uncommon about PLCAA, however, is that it provides blanket immunity to an industry, as opposed to some specific industry conduct. Never before had Congress granted a single industry such extensive legal protection — nor has it done so since.

The tobacco, automotive, and pharmaceutical industries, for example, have all faced lawsuits alleging that their products caused irreparable harm to the general public. In each instance, legal battles have triggered significant industry-wide changes.


“I don’t think in the legal world the PLCAA is looked on as just regular legislation,” said Jake Charles, executive director of Duke University's Center for Firearms Law. Proponents of PLCAA weren’t taking a stance on legal theory or saying that product liability laws needed an overhaul.

Rather, they were building a legal shelter to exempt an industry from laws they otherwise acknowledged function appropriately. “It does seem designed to protect the gun industry in particular,” he added.


https://www.thetrace.org/2020/01/gun-industry-legal-immunity-plcaa/
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to EveHammond13 (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 08:47 PM

33. The PLCAA was introduced at the behest of the gun industry and National Rifle Association

 

Executive Vice President and CEO Wayne LaPierre touted its passage as “a historic piece of legislation” in 2005.

What is the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act?

The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, or PLCAA, is a federal law enacted in 2005 that grants broad immunity from liability to gun manufacturers and dealers in federal and state courts. PLCAA prevents plaintiffs from filing lawsuits against gun manufacturers or dealers in many cases when these parties have been negligent and there has been “criminal or unlawful misuse” of a firearm or ammunition—regardless of whether plaintiffs are seeking monetary damages or injunctive relief.

snip===================================================================

Why is it important to keep courthouse doors open to civil lawsuits against the gun industry?

A basic feature of American law is that victims of harm can seek redress in court from wrongdoers. By preventing victims of gun violence from pursuing well-established legal claims against irresponsible gun manufacturers and sellers—without presenting an alternative means for the victims to be compensated—PLCAA is an injustice that is unfair and unprecedented.

Beyond the basic injustice of depriving victims of gun-industry harm access to courtrooms—access that is available to victims of negligent acts by other industries—civil litigation is also important to incentivize industry actors to act responsibly; take steps to prevent negligent and criminal use of their products; and improve product safety. Prior to the enactment of PLCAA, civil lawsuits were used successfully against the gun industry to secure the adoption of new safety measures and other best practices:

In 2000, Smith & Wesson agreed to adopt additional safety practices, such as selling safety devices with each handgun; establishing a code of conduct for authorized dealers and distributors; and including a hidden set of serial numbers on the inside of all new guns in order to make it more difficult for criminals to scratch off these identifying markings. The company did this as part of a settlement agreement that ended several lawsuits.

snip===================================================================

How does the immunity from suits afforded to the gun industry compare with other industries?

PLCAA affords the gun industry much broader immunity than other consumer product industries. While federal law sets caps on the amount a plaintiff can recover through civil lawsuits against other industries—such as the railroad and nuclear power industries—no other industry enjoys such extensive blanket immunity.

In fact, civil litigation in other industries has resulted in safety improvements for potentially dangerous products.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/guns-crime/reports/2016/01/15/128949/immunizing-the-gun-industry-the-harmful-effect-of-the-protection-of-lawful-commerce-in-arms-act/
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #33)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 09:37 PM

38. Passed with the help of 14 Democratic Senators and Bernie.

 


Democrats who voted for PLCAA.

Yea MT D Baucus, Max
Yea WV D Byrd, Robert
Yea ND D Conrad, Kent
Yea ND D Dorgan, Byron
Yea SD D Johnson, Tim
Yea WI D Kohl, Herb
Yea LA D Landrieu, Mary
Yea AR D Lincoln, Blanche
Yea NE D Nelson, Ben
Yea FL D Nelson, Bill
Yea AR D Pryor, Mark
Yea NV D Reid, Harry
Yea WV D Rockefeller, Jay
Yea CO D Salazar, Ken

Weirdly, Dianne Feinstein didn't vote. Maybe she was conflicted.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #38)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 10:10 PM

39. Only one of those people is running for president.

 

Why is it weird for Feinstein to have missed that vote? Why would Feinstein have been ''conflicted''? She has a solid record on gun safety issues.

https://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Dianne_Feinstein_Gun_Control.htm


How Gunmakers Dealt Themselves a Get-Out-of-Jail Free Card

The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA), passed in 2005 and signed into law by President George W. Bush, insulates gun makers from any responsibility for the carnage their product causes.

“Everybody knew it was shilling for the NRA,” says Jim Kessler, who at the time was with Americans for Gun Safety. “It was a gift to the gun industry. It was like passing a bill to grant immunity to the pharmaceutical or tobacco industry. It was no better.”

Kessler watched the vote on C-Span. “You could see senators looking at their Blackberries on the Senate floor, and (then) all but eight voted to kill it,” he says. They had got their orders from the NRA to tank the bill because gun safety advocates working with John McCain had added two amendments to the bill. One, sponsored by McCain, closed the gun-show loophole, the other, sponsored by Dianne Feinstein, extended the assault weapons ban, which after 10 years was expiring.

Once those amendments were added to the bill, the NRA withdrew its support. “That was round one,” says Kessler.

snip==================================================================

Then Bush won reelection, and the Senate was once again in Republican hands. With the support of the NRA, Republicans brought up the PLCAA again.

This time, with the Democrats in the minority, the gun safety amendments weren’t in the bill, and it easily passed the Senate and the House. Bernie Sanders was in the House at the time, getting ready to run for the Senate, and he voted for the bill.

“If you read what he said about the bill, it was the talking points of the NRA, that the gun industry shouldn’t be held responsible for people misusing their product,” says Kessler, “That’s the corporatist view.”


https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-gunmakers-dealt-themselves-a-get-out-of-jail-free-card
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Joe Biden

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Response to lapucelle (Reply #39)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 10:12 PM

40. True, and I support Bernie's vote.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #40)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 10:31 PM

41. So to recap...

 

- You think an anti-gun activist who is the father of a child murdered with a gun does not support BS because the grieving parent might be on Bloomberg's ''payroll''.

- You think an anti-gun activist who is the father of a child murdered with a gun does not support BS because the grieving parent is bitter about the 2016 election.

- You think Dianne Feinstein weirdly missed a vote, perhaps because she was ''conflicted''.

- You stand with the NRA concerning BS's vote in favor of the PLCAA.

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to EveHammond13 (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 09:17 PM

36. K&R

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to EveHammond13 (Original post)

Sun Feb 23, 2020, 10:54 PM

44. K&R

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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