Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumCastro? Jesus Christ, CASTRO, Bernie?
TheI dunno, thirty somethingsmight not care but there are a whole lot of us who remember refugees and drownings and slaughtering of people in Cuba. Some remember people having everything taken away, and those Russian missiles (I lived on a SAC base and it was dead serious business) but Castro has good qualities too?
Bernie actually gave that interview?
What the actual fuck? The world is mad.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueTsunami2018
(3,461 posts)You cant rationalize Castro.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Ill take the truth over spin.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... so he wasn't that bad of a guy ... you know that, why reply like this?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Particularly the rural and poor. That is overshadowed by the authoritarianism. But it is not erased.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Cuba is a complicated topic. It requires a complex analysis.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... a net good person to be around and the same with Castro.
Cause he helped the poor ... really ?!
Bet he walked old ladies across the street too..
Fuck a dictatorship, plurality is where it is at.
Come the fuck on man.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)Your positions are coming from right field yo.
Sanders didn't have to say the exact words "net good person" the intimation was there in the retort of the established "some good things happened".
So what?
That means what to the larger context of Fuck a dictatorship !?
That the good parts are OK ?!
fuck that
Fuck dictatorship and those who support them in any way
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)You cannot tell me Saudi Arabia is a Democracy when every President since FDR allied with Saudi Arabia and one of the reasons why ironically is because Saudi Arabia is anti-communist but they are the most authoritarian government in the world with the worst women rights record in the world.
You act like the US has clean hands.
In the aftermath of World War II, the United States government struggled with the Soviet Union for global leadership, influence and security within the context of the Cold War. The United States government under the Eisenhower administration feared that national security would be compromised by governments propped by the Soviet Union's own involvement in regime change and promoted the domino theory, with later presidents following Eisenhower's precedent.[5] Subsequently, the United States expanded the geographic scope of its actions beyond traditional area of operations, Central America and the Caribbean. Significant operations included the United States and United Kingdom-orchestrated 1953 Iranian coup d'état, the 1961 Bay of Pigs Invasion targeting Cuba, and support for the overthrow of Sukarno by General Suharto in Indonesia. In addition, the U.S. has interfered in the national elections of countries, including in Japan in the 1950s and 1960s, the Philippines in 1953, and in Lebanon in the 1957 elections using secret cash infusions.[6] According to one study, the U.S. performed at least 81 overt and covert known interventions in foreign elections during the period 19462000.[7] Another study found that the U.S. engaged in 64 covert and six overt attempts at regime change during the Cold War.[5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mcar
(42,210 posts)They will run ad after ad in Florida showing BS praising Castro. Period. End of story.
While Bernie and his supporters are trying to explain the complexity, the Rs will stay on message and IMPOTUS will win Florida by 40 points.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... vote for the guy who supported their Vietnam (being terrorized by easy access to guns) for decades ?!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mcar
(42,210 posts)how all this gets ignored by his supporters. Or the "complexity" gets bern-splained.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... of supporting easy access to guns !!
WTF, how is this guy the leading candidate now !?!?!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,867 posts)He is not supporting easy access to guns.
But don't let the truth stop you.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,867 posts)The one organization pushing for that thinks Sanders is doing a bad job.
Is this still the stupid manufacturer liability thing? Because that's nonsense.
But, whatever. People are just going to say what they want about Sanders without facts to back them up.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,867 posts)Because Sanders is not the pro gun hawk people want to portray him as. But, again, I'm sure the non-factual smears will continue.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
awesomerwb1
(4,256 posts)Are you serious???
Wow. Is that why the poor get in overcrowded rafts and risk their lives trying to get to the US or other countries???
Wow.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
safeinOhio
(32,532 posts)Fulgencio Batista the dictatorship.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blue-wave
(4,317 posts)It looks like the bots are out in full force. Defending a murderous dictator like Castro? Really?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)That's why people like Trump - he gives them simple answers. And if we want to beat Trump we need to emulate his simple answers.
Bryant
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)Confiscated the mansions and land from the wealthy rulers. But then he became a Dictator keeping the people poor.
Of course the actions of the Administrations in this country did not help. Republicans backed the wealthy. Not until the Obama Administration did we begin to open doors for them. Trump killed that.
Castro did create a great medical system.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
riverbendviewgal
(4,251 posts)I took the toronto Transit bus to work in the 90s. I lived next door to the end of the line of the bus route. Going home I would sit across from the drivers and have conversations with them. One day we were talking about vacations. This driver said he always went to Cuba, for decades. He went before the revolution and continued after it.
He told me the Cuban people are vastly better after Castro came to power. Women were not selling their bodies and kids were not begging. People had food and doctors and shoes. His words.
The American embargo caused shortages of those things we in western nations. But the the important things like shelter, Health and food the Cuban people had that they didn't have before Castro..
I now go on vacations to Cuba. I love it. I am Canadian. Cubans love Canadians. We share many beliefs like health care for all and diversity.
True they have peeling paint on their houses but Everywhere I went in Cuba it was very clean. Peoplevseemed to ge very HAPPY.
I saw real poverty in West Virginia, Ohio, Kentucky and other states in my travels. People in Florida told me they had no health care.
Who is the better nation?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)Going through the Panama Canal I had a chance to really listen to the many Canadians on the ship.
Every one of them told me how much they loved Clinton. We also discussed the Health care system in Canada. I have envied how your country established their system, starting with one Province.
Republicans have screwed the system up royally in this Country. Every time they manage to take one step fools elect another Republican and we go back 2 steps.
Republicans, including Congress have really done the worst this time.
Cuba is only 50 miles away from our shores, yet we could not go there. Obama had started fixing our relationship.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)dissidents, all the ugliness, and oops forgot Russias invasions and plan for world domination.
Bernie is still the 60s firebrand infatuated with systems inimical to democracy because they offer some goodies. We all know he is not trying to make the US a socialist state. Problem is he doesnt seem to know he gives fodder to Republicans and scares voters we will need. That shows lack of judgement.
Back to the drawing board Bernie. Figure out the economics of your economic plan and shut up about socialism. You wont succeed in making it acceptable between now and November.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... WTF are people loosing their minds around here.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
blue-wave
(4,317 posts)And guess who was the #1 key player in the Cuban revolution? Ding, ding, ding!! That's right, Castro! A murderous dictator. Bingo!!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)They continued to live in poverty.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cosmocat
(14,543 posts)Are not even remotely nuanced enough to see whatever "good side" Castro might have had.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Happy Hoosier
(7,081 posts)Truth doesn't really matter. Spin does. We fail to learn this at our peril.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lambchopp59
(2,809 posts)Were very opposed to the authoritarian nature of Cuba, but, you know, its simply unfair to say everything is bad, You know? When Fidel Castro came into office, you know what he did? He had a massive literacy program. Is that a bad thing? Even though Fidel Castro did it?
Anderson Cooper: A lot of p-- dissidents imprisoned in-- in Cuba.
Bernie Sanders: That's right. And we condemn that. Unlike Donald Trump, let's be clear, you want to-- I do not think that Kim Jong Un is a good friend. I don't trade love letters with a murdering dictator. Vladimir Putin, not a great friend of mine.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Democrats Ascendant
(601 posts)Che Guevara somehow has been fashionable, but this is a toughie.... *smh*
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Democrats Ascendant
(601 posts)I was there in 2005 and NOBODY, literally NOBODY wanted to say anything nice about Castro. I guess they knew I wasn't Cuban based on my Spanish (not Cubano), but I was stunned that there was so much dissent - and LOVE for capitalism - in Cuba. Don't get me started....
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Vogon_Glory
(9,086 posts)Even those of us (like me) who were too young for our parents to allow us to ride in the street back then, but it looks like that the Generation Tellytubbies for Sanders seems to be brushing it off.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)Its selfish and rude.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Vogon_Glory
(9,086 posts)Sanders has a lock on the entire youth vote? Thats rather presumptive.
I dont feel apologetic for pointing out to ahistorical Bernie-philes that his comments about Cuba and other Marxist-socialist (As opposed to Western European social-democracies) will be taken very badly by Latino emigres from Cuba (And the ones now taking out US citizenship papers from Venezuela), and that such comments will be used for attack ads by Orange Julius and his fans.
Nor do I like brushing off the chances for Democratic pick-ups in states and districts with a lot of ex-military voters. The impeachment trial just past showed a lot of stuff that went well beyond partisan politics and into honest-to-gosh treason.
You may know a little Spanish or have friends who know a little about Latin American politics. Have you ever heard of the term Vendepatria? It was a term used by Latin liberals and leftists for those who sold out the fatherland (the homeland) to foreigners for money or favors.
In case you havent noticed, the investigations during Orange Julius impeachment trial have shown that there are by-golly REAL vendepatrias in the highest levels of the Executive Branch here in los Estados Unidos.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blue-wave
(4,317 posts)When you learn something about Cuba and the communist takeover of the country, then let's talk. I not only studied it in school, I had neighbors and friends who were Cuban refugees. The communist takeover of Cuba was and is nothing to brag about. It was a dirty, savage takeover of a country and it's people, murdering thousands in the process. It also served to be an extremely serious threat to the safety of all Americans.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ms liberty
(8,479 posts)I went to school with kids who fled Cuba with their families or were born right after, and I knew their families. So I am at least as aware as you of the Cuban's beliefs about Castro but I take it for what it is. But, I also know the history. Bernie is accurate in his statement.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Happy Hoosier
(7,081 posts)Disclosure: I am not a Boomer.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Duppers
(28,094 posts)Love it!!
My 33yo is backing Bernie but I doubt he'll vote in the primary - always "too busy." I keep sending him info.
Once backed Bernie myself but not now, unless he's our nominee, then it's Vote Blue No Matter Who.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redixdoragon
(156 posts)Meanwhile we did what we always do and orchestrated a coup using former Cuban exiles led by the CIA, because our moneyed interests were at stake, again, like the Shah in Iran. Or the support for Saddam's Ba'ath party in Iraq.
Bernie is not looking at the leader's actions from an imperial/anti-imperal standpoint, but from "What is he doing to uplift and support the vast majority of the poor of his nation, to improve their lives."
We've been trying to do coups on anyone and everyone not playing ball, or tend to invade them. Endless wars aren't just Iraq and Afganastan. Or our war on terror. They come up when somebody has something we want, and it's cheaper, or mor profitable, to just take it than trade for it. Stopping this, that's what I think Sanders means by ending "Endless wars."
The Cuban Missile Crisis is over.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
safeinOhio
(32,532 posts)everyone thinks Iran is evil without looking at the Shah and how the US and Britain installed him. They don't hate us for our freedoms. One must look at Fulgencio Batista too.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blue-wave
(4,317 posts)"Accredited author, Mario Lazo in his book Dagger in the Heart : American Policy Failures in Cuba, placed his, now dated, 1968 estimate at 50,000 deaths. For some to cavalierly disregard such death toll estimates as "lunatic estimates from the exile community" is beyond callousness."
"Miguel A. Faria's book, Cuba in Revolution (2002), op. cit., pp. 415-416, states the following: "Since Fidel Castro took over the island in 1959, the best figures that we can glean is that between 30,000 to 40,000 people either have been executed en los paredones de fusilamiento (in the firing squad wall) or have died in the hands of their communist jailers. Mr. Faria also estimates: "The best conservative estimate is that between 30,000 to 40,000 Cubans have perished attempting to flee Castro's regime, mostly succumbing in the treacherous waters of the Florida Straits. My figures for death at sea are consistent with Juan Clark's" Cuba: Mito y Realidad, "who estimated that more than 16,000 Cubans had made it to freedom since 1959 up to the time of the publication of the book in 1992. Clark estimated that figure represented only one out of three Cubans who attempted to make it to freedom. Countless thousands of others have died indirectly as a result of Fidel Castro's collectivist policies, unspeakable privations, malnutrition, and the general desolation of a once more prosperous island."
https://www.quora.com/How-many-deaths-was-Fidel-Castro-responsible-for?share=1
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blue-wave
(4,317 posts)Why are they celebrating if Castro was such a great guy?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)Idle promises. Republicans in this country backed the wealthy Cubans and Americans.
Florida was totally Republican because of those who moved there,denpmanding their land back.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
AncientGeezer
(2,146 posts)How do you not know that?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
eilen
(4,950 posts)It was a humanitarian disaster. Cubans taking their chances on the open sea in small boats rather than face Castro's soldiers. Remember that little boy- who's mother died and Bush sent him back?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)Was sent back to his Father. Janet Reno approved that raid. A drunken uncle and other family members were using him. His Mother died during the boat crossing.
Reno did the right thing because he wanted to be with his father.
I spent a lot of vacation in FLA. Am quite aware of the boat people.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
AncientGeezer
(2,146 posts)You do this to family in the US(?)....his Mom tried getting him here....the kid had NO clue where he wanted to be...he was a 5y/o kid who's Mom died getting him here....
This is that raid....prompted by the bullshit pushed by Reno....
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=&w=767
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)That did not happen? I disagree. Janet Reno had to do that because the family were using Elian.
A drunken uncle and niece would not turn him over. In case you do not understand the law his Father was his guardian and had all the rights on his side. The uncle and niece did not!
https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2016/11/27/elian-gonzalez-sanchez-pkg.cnn/video/playlists/rewind-elian-
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
AncientGeezer
(2,146 posts)blown out of Cuba and DC.
Apparently people fell for it
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)Had a rough choice to make.
Elian was 6 years old, not old enough to make a choice. His Father had custody. I watched the whole thing unfold, including Elian being happily reunited with his Father
Those are facts, not just one picture you posted.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SunSeeker
(51,378 posts)I guess saying nice things about murderous dictators is kinda in fashion.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
betsuni
(25,138 posts)college made him "physically nauseated" that JFK was against the Cuban revolution about which he was "excited and impressed," convincing him that both parties were the same and politics wasn't the answer: "conventional politics or liberalism was not what was relevant." His recent ad "Strive" begins with JFK.
Fine, lots of people were excited about the Russian revolution, too (saw Warren Beatty's "Reds" a couple of months ago and things did not work out for John Reed and Emma Goldman; Isadora Duncan went to Russia after the revolution and things didn't work out well either.) In the end people are people and there are always problems. Nobody except Republicans think the Cuban revolution was all bad. The vintage American cars are fabulous. President Obama re-opened the U.S. relationship with Cuba. Yes, Teh Democratic Establishment!
But Bernie STILL thinks both parties are the same and that change cannot come from within.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NBachers
(17,007 posts)by her parents at the age of 12 to live in an orphanage so she didn't have to live in Cuba.
She went on to become a brilliant Atomic Engineer and has established a very successful life and family here. Her parents eventually came, and established themselves and contributed to the United States of America.
A long-time ex-Miami resident, I certainly have my issues with the political orientation of many Cuban refugees. But, ask yourself- what kind or conditions would you have to live under to send your beloved 12 year old daughter to live in an orphanage in a foreign country thousands of miles away; never knowing if you'd ever see her again or not?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PTWB
(4,131 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NBachers
(17,007 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PTWB
(4,131 posts)about orphanages thousands of miles away piqued my interest. Thanks for the link.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Column: Why Castro was so deeply loved by some, and hated by others
While many white Americans associate Castro with communism and dictatorship, many African-Americans associate Castro with liberation citing Castros meeting with Malcolm X and granting political asylum to Assata Shakur as examples. Within the black community globally, Castros contributions to anti-colonialist struggles are weighed alongside criticisms of his crackdown on dissent and racial disparities on the island.
Castros legacy is one of complexity and controversy and the split in perceptions of heroism and tyranny along racial and ethnic lines goes beyond the contentious relationship between the United States and Cuba. For some, Castros vision and implementation of Cuban internationalism, and contributions to anti-colonialist movements significantly impacted the lives of millions of people throughout the world.
He focused largely on medical and educational collaborations and furthering the fight against imperial rule providing military assistance that led to independence in Namibia and the end of apartheid rule in South Africa. Thousands of Africans have been educated in Cuba over the past five decades with costs of attendance being split between the Cuban government and the government of the students nation.
The heroes of the United States have not necessarily aligned with the heroes of marginalized peoples of this country nor with the heroes of the Global South.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/castro_loved-hated
This is who I'm concerned about who Obama and Clinton allied with -- Saudi Arabia. Even the Clinton Foundation got donations from the House of Saud.
A Bernie Sanders presidency could be a nightmare for Saudi Arabia
Picture for a moment Senator Bernie Sanders winning the US presidential election this November and then heading to a scheduled meeting next year with Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (known as MBS).
In a clash of persona and style, President Sanders would most likely make a lengthy statement about his "political revolution", while sitting next to MBS, and the White House press corps crowded into the Oval Office would awkwardly ask him how he was going to manage a meeting with rulers he once called "murderous thugs".
Would that be the Saudi leadership's nightmare scenario for a post-Donald Trump presidency?
Sanders, who is currently the frontrunner in the Democratic primaries, made this bold statement about the Saudi leadership during a town hall meeting in Nevada on February 18, just as US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo was stepping on to a flight for a three-day visit to Riyadh.
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/bernie-sanders-presidency-nightmare-saudi-arabia-200223070957319.html
I prefer Sanders standing up to Saudi Arabia (which he has a record of doing with his bipartisan effort to end the Yemen War which Trump vetoed) over him telling the truth that literacy improved in Cuba. Also health care improved. Keep in mind before Castro the US backed a dictator which is probably why they allied with the Soviet Union to protect Cuba from the US.
I don't know who shot JFK or why but I do know the mafia wanted back into Cuba. One of the mafia leaders the CIA allied with said that the CIA and mafia were two sides of the same coin.
Alleged CIA connections
It is widely reputed and was partially corroborated by the Church Committee hearings that during the Kennedy administration, the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) recruited Giancana and other mobsters to assassinate Fidel Castro. Giancana reportedly said that CIA and the Cosa Nostra were "different sides of the same coin".[10]
Judith Exner claimed to be the mistress of both Giancana and JFK, and that she delivered communications between them about Castro.[11] Giancana's daughter Antoinette has stated that her father was performing a scam to pocket millions of CIA dollars.[12]
Documents released during 1997 revealed that some Mafiosi worked with CIA on assassination attempts against Castro.[13] CIA documents released during 2007 confirmed that during September 1960, CIA recruited ex-FBI agent Robert Maheu to meet with the West Coast representative of the Chicago mob, Johnny Roselli. When Maheu contacted Roselli, Maheu hid that he was sent by CIA, instead portraying himself an advocate for international corporations. He offered $150,000 to have Castro killed, but Roselli refused any pay. Roselli introduced Maheu to two men he called Sam Gold and Joe. "Sam Gold" was Giancana; "Joe" was Santo Trafficante Jr., the Tampa/Miami syndicate boss and one of the most powerful mobsters in prerevolution Cuba.[14] Glenn Kessler of The Washington Post explained: "After Fidel Castro led a revolution that toppled the government of Fulgencio Batista in 1959, CIA was desperate to eliminate Castro. So, the agency sought out a partner equally worried about Castrothe Mafia, which had lucrative investments in Cuban casinos."[15]
According to the declassified CIA "Family Jewels" documents, Giancana and Trafficante were contacted in September 1960 about the possibility of an assassination attempt by Maheu after Maheu had contacted Roselli, a Mafia member in Las Vegas and Giancana's number-two man. Maheu had presented himself as a representative of numerous international businesses in Cuba that Castro was expropriating. He offered $150,000 for the "removal" of Castro through this operation (the documents suggest that neither Roselli, Giancana, nor Trafficante accepted any payment for the job). Giancana suggested using poison pills to dose Castro's food and drink. CIA gave these pills to Giancana's nominee, Juan Orta, whom Giancana presented as a corrupt official in the new Cuban government and who had access to Castro. After six attempts to introduce the poison into Castro's food, Orta abruptly demanded to be relieved from the mission, giving the job to another, unnamed participant. Later, Giancana and Trafficante made a second attempt using Anthony Verona, the commander of the Cuban Exile Junta, who had, according to Trafficante, become "disaffected with the apparent ineffectual progress of the Junta". Verona requested $10,000 in expenses and $1,000 worth of communications equipment. How much work was performed for the second attempt is unknown, as the entire program was canceled soon thereafter due to the Bay of Pigs invasion in April 1961.[16][17][18]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Giancana#Alleged_CIA_connections
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Sugarcoated
(7,707 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blue-wave
(4,317 posts)I'd say that's a sizable voting bloc.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)The younger do not remember Castro or Cuba. Big change.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blue-wave
(4,317 posts)They admire, as Bernie does, Castro's policies? I'm sure a very sizable majority of the younger Cuban Americans remember the brutal treatment suffered by their parents and grandparents under the Castro regime. Watch the video I posted above. Lot's of young Cuban Americans in the crowd.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Blue American
(17,972 posts) The young are more likely to vote Democrat. They do not remember Cuba or Castro.
The wealthy older generation spent their lives voting Republican because they were open to getting their mansions and land back. That generation is almost gome.
I do not think they would vote for a Socialist.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tirebiter
(2,520 posts)Russia would not give any launch codes to Castro because he wanted to fire them at us. The Cuban Missile Crisis brought us closer to nuclear war than any time before or since. Luckily The US had a no first use policy. OK, Castro was a baseball fan.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
yaesu
(8,020 posts)multitude of countries overseas. Where is the "outrage" about that? Oh, and Cuba was a pawn during the Cold War, not a player.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
You are either going to vote for Sanders or its a vote for Trump. We have choices in life.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)Sanders is not going to be the nominee, so, no, I am not going to vote Sanders nor Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Tell me who is going to be the nominee because MSNBC is giving its best shot to stop Sanders and it appears not to be working?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
True Blue American
(17,972 posts)Right!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Last edited Mon Feb 24, 2020, 08:25 AM - Edit history (2)
Link to tweet
John Kerry under Obama wanted to normalize relations with Cuba. Lets continue that.
On edit: It looks like those that have moral outrage over Sanders don't share it when it comes to Obama. I'm used to that.
This is a better Tweet.
Link to tweet
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redqueen
(115,096 posts)Hmmmmm
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)conspiracists, and had not praised authoritarian socialist and communist regimes. No Russian Honeymoon and I am a socialist tapes. Bernie has to work harder to show hes not a subversive.
We know hes not. Middle America doesnt study the nuances of political science, however.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redqueen
(115,096 posts)for Dems to stop flogging right wing talking points about him. We all know them.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)Biden still leads in swing states in head to toe match up with Trump. Polls influenced by votes and vs. versa.
So we need to see. Only MSM has crowned Bernie prematurely.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redqueen
(115,096 posts)but I guess now that has changed so no one is the leader now
Makes sense? Somehow?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)wide appeal across the political spectrum and diverse communities, it was natural at the time to envision him as a leader. However, MSM, far from anointing him prematurely, in the face of his poll leads and strong support, bashed and dismissed him alternately.
He was, unlike Bernie, vetted again and again.
Unlike Bernie he has demonstrable presidential qualifications. Saying so takes nothing away from
Bernies singular achievement in creating and leading a revolution. However, some of us believe economic revolution is the opposite of what will appeal in the GE. We also want to know what the revolution will cost.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redqueen
(115,096 posts)and now there's no leader.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)thought him most electable. No one contended other than that. Now that we are voting, many ask
that we allow the primary contest to play out so that states with more diverse populations, particularly of AA voters, have a chance to vote.
Biden won 39 percent of AA voters in Nevada.
Bernie is finally getting vetted. So, honestly we have no leader yet, but will soon.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redqueen
(115,096 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)the GE and that Biden would have a better chance. We can only speculate on that as a primary does not give the full picture.
Joe still leads in polls in six out of seven swing states in Trump match ups.
So. Uncle! Bernie leads in delegate counts and in many polls. In some, he and Biden are tied.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redqueen
(115,096 posts)I didn't know that.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)But I am pretty far left on this issue so I am probably not representative of the general public.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Croney
(4,646 posts)headed for Bay of Pigs, and I never saw him again. Two years later I married a Cuban student whose entire family had left Cuba. His parents and ancient grandmother came to live with us in New Orleans, before returning to live in Miami. His parents had not been rich in Cuba; they were teachers.
Those people are dead now. Their mantra was "next year in Cuba," always hoping things would change and they could go home. They wanted to be buried standing up, because they couldn't rest except in their home ground.
Their descendants, young and old, hate Castro. Hating Castro is what Cubans in the U.S. do. Throwing away Cuban votes is insane.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Since Sanders can flip his switch back to "INDEPENDENT" whenever it suits him...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Alliepoo
(2,196 posts)How do we believe or trust him on other issues?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)2. You know this doesn't magically make the Castro thing disappear, right?
3. I have never, ever seen anything resembling "leadership" from Sanders regarding party policy or anything else. It's optimistic to think he'll start now...
3A. I don't know if you're on Twitter, but all the Berners are talking about purges and chopping off heads of "establishment" Dems... This doesn't really fill me with confidence knowing his campaign sees me as an enemy who need to "bow" to their divine right to rule. If all we get from this primary is "TRUMP! -- BUT FROM THE LEFT THIS TIME!" then you can leave me out.
4. As I've said elsewhere, two New Englanders at the top of the ticket is a really fucking dumb idea for reasons too numerous to list.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)are two New Englanders at the top of the ticket "brilliant"?
Did the math of the electoral college change when I wasn't looking?? Or are you content to write off the entire South?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Nanjeanne
(4,878 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
nolabear
(41,915 posts)He gave them a rocket launcher. You can argue right or wrong all you want. You can agree with the trains run on time argument. You can point out BSs good qualities too.
He gave the right a big, big weapon and they will use it to tear us apart.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Nanjeanne
(4,878 posts)else.
This is bogus and silly. The right will continue to fabricate anything they want about Warren, Biden, Pete et al. They will take many statements from each of those people and run with them. Bernie at least has a full statement praising the education system (as did Obama) while lambasting the political/economic system.
I'm constantly amazed at how people think the right are going to go after Bernie but not any other candidate. They don't need facts - they make it up.
Oh lookie . . .
Link to tweet
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
nolabear
(41,915 posts)They do indeed make things up. Those can be disputed, for better or for worse. If your candidate was smart hed walk into this with humility, an open desire to not only defend but understand how alarming this is to many, accurately or not, and stop condescending to those who worry about what the right will use to foment rage and massive voter turnout.
So far Ive not seen that, from him or his followers.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Tarc
(10,472 posts)I'd much rather have this than the usually equivocating backpedal of a on-answer most of the others would have given.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)We can do better than Bernie.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
IluvPitties
(3,181 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Docreed2003
(16,817 posts)I don't give a FUCK if Castro helped the poor or did or did't do what he promised. I don't care that Sanders is showing his leftist 60's idealism by saying the things he's said about Castro. It doesn't matter AT ALL what any of us on the left think. This isn't fucking 1962 and holding on to some kind of 60's leftist bullshit about how great Castro could have been, or, to the constrast, how brutal the Castro regime was doesn't matter HERE in this moment.
The real issue is this: WHY THE HELL WOULD WE WILLINGLY YOKE OURSELVES TO SOMEONE WHO IS UNREPENTANT ABOUT THEIR RADICALISM AND SEEMS UNWILLING TO RECONSIDER THAT EVEN YEARS LATER???
Are we going to twist ourselves into pretzels explaining to the masses "well this is what socialism really means" or "yeah Bernie said that but let me explain why"....Jesus the moment you say the words Yeah BUT, you've lost the argument.
The vast vast majority of Americans aren't going to want to have an intellectual debate about the merits of socialism/Democratic Socialism/60's leftist ideologies they're just not...people will fall back on their deeply ingrained and brainwashed positions of "x is bad".
Some of us are trying to point out these facts to folks here but it feels like we're the ignored canaries in the coal mine. I hope I'm wrong, I pray I'm wrong, but I've seen little to convince myself that the average American is going to sit down and say "Yeah, ok that makes sense why Bernie would say nice things about Castro or Soviet Russia or Latin American dictatorships".
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LexVegas
(6,005 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dalton99a
(81,073 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Deero
(86 posts)so that he could more easily spread propaganda to the population.
It's not like he did this for a more informed electorate and got everyone a subscription to the NYT. He did it solely to tighten his grip on them.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dalton99a
(81,073 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
riverbendviewgal
(4,251 posts)He loves Trump. He said he would die for Trump. He is always telling me he is proud to be ignorant of anything outside of the USA. He watches FOX and thinks Hannity should be president. We went to the same schools. I am almost deaf so I spent my childhood and teens in the library reading. I went around the world, in the past, present and future. I loved national Geographic. I love JFK.
I got my much needed hearing aid in Canada with the help of Canadian doctors.
I am of Polish heritage. Both sets of Grandparents came to Ellis Island in the 20s. My mother forbid me to learn Polish. She was ashamed of being from immigrants. My mother only read the shopping ads. My dad only. read the sports page. When they were alive they both lovedTrump.
I read the NY daily News while Eichmann was on trial. I was 12. Reading made my beliefs and how I think today.
Once My mother told me I was weird because I read.
I went to Obama's 1st inauguration party in Toronto. I Stood next to his cardboard image proudly to have my picture taken. I Gave my best friend a windshield air purifier with Obama's picture I got at that party. She still has it hanging in her car to this day.
I left America in 1969. Became a Canadian in 1993. Relinquished my American citizenship the same year.
I still care about my neighbor to the south.
I must warn you there are many people like my brother and friends in blue state NJ who hate Obama and love Trump.
I feel sickened at the thought of these people full of hatred in control of my motherland.
Up here in Canada most of are hoping Trump is voted out.
Mr. Baur was right in 1964. The collapse of USA democracy is happening in the time frame he predicted. Mr. Baur was my US history teacher in high school. Two years ago he wrote me and told me I made the correct choice coming to Canada.
Pray, protest, campaign and vote that POS out.
PS I have been visiting Cuba for years now, after going to Florida for winters. Cuba is wonderful. A Canadian bus driver visited Cuba before Castro and after. He told me the people are vastly better off under Castro. Just the rich Cubans before Castro are not. I always think of that scene in Godfather II of new years eve where the rich Cubans were celebrating. Once the revolution began They left with their riches they could take to Florida.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
still_one
(91,965 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
corbettkroehler
(1,898 posts)Cuba is third behind the United States and Canada within the Americas for medical tourism and has been so for decades. Heads of state from around Latin America routinely leave their own nations to visit Cuba in order to receive treatment.
If you paused your moral outrage for a moment and pondered the humanity, you might realize that this is A YUGE STATISTIC and quite meaningful.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)The naivety and lack of understanding of how messaging works is breathtaking. You have no idea what you are in for.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
corbettkroehler
(1,898 posts)Last edited Mon Feb 24, 2020, 05:44 PM - Edit history (1)
Cuba under the Castros has had major problems for generations. However, IT IS A DOCUMENTED FACT, irrespective of whether you like it, that medical tourism is big business in Cuba. YES, IT IS A DOCUMENTED FACT.
Dispute it with opinion if you like but the facts are on my side and I have full confidence that DUers will struggle to disprove my point.
Link to tweet
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Quixote1818
(28,904 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Although I imagine if she was Korean-American and had a district with a heavy Korean-American population she'd be even more vocal
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Quixote1818
(28,904 posts)This is a wash.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
nolabear
(41,915 posts)He gave the right a bomb and theyre using it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dalton99a
(81,073 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
David__77
(23,220 posts)The reference was to Fidel Castro.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2016/11/26/congresswoman-barbara-lee-castro-should-be-mourned/
Not saying I agree or disagree. I do think that this statement is pretty tame:
Were very opposed to the authoritarian nature of Cuba, but you know, its unfair to simply say everything is bad. You know? When Fidel Castro came into office, you know what he did? He had a massive literacy program. Is that a bad thing? Even though Fidel Castro did it?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redqueen
(115,096 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
nolabear
(41,915 posts)This is the biggest issuehe said something you might say in conversation and Id nod and might argue with you but it would end there. To say it in front of a camera, then do anything other than humbly say that it was a one off in a broad context of condemnation and that Castro was a dictator, a monster, a threat to his people and to America, an ally to Russia in their ongoing attempt to take down America, etc. is handing the right the weapon of your destruction. They will rally around it for the rest of the campaign. Florida is done. Older Americans are done. Our Revolution takes on a threatening meaning, even though I knowwell, I thinkits different.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)Anything the DL says is a golden nugget of truth.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
AncientGeezer
(2,146 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
David__77
(23,220 posts)I'd love to see her as Secretary of State.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
corbettkroehler
(1,898 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden