Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

nolabear

(41,915 posts)
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:54 AM Feb 2020

Castro? Jesus Christ, CASTRO, Bernie?

The—I dunno, thirty somethings—might not care but there are a whole lot of us who remember refugees and drownings and slaughtering of people in Cuba. Some remember people having everything taken away, and those Russian missiles (I lived on a SAC base and it was dead serious business) but Castro has good qualities too?

Bernie actually gave that interview?

What the actual fuck? The world is mad.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
137 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Castro? Jesus Christ, CASTRO, Bernie? (Original Post) nolabear Feb 2020 OP
These are the things that will kill us. BlueTsunami2018 Feb 2020 #1
He's not rationalizing Castro. He's speaking the truth. Gravitycollapse Feb 2020 #2
No he's not, he's picking out the good to rationalize the net bad. Like saying Dahmer had a dog uponit7771 Feb 2020 #4
The Cuban revolution actually did some great things for Cubans. Gravitycollapse Feb 2020 #6
Deflection, we're talking about net good vs net bad and you understand that. just stop uponit7771 Feb 2020 #7
I will not stop supporting the truth. Even if it pains you. Gravitycollapse Feb 2020 #9
There's deflection and false equivalencies here. Fuck dictatorships, simple analysis there. uponit7771 Feb 2020 #11
It was a miserable dictatorship but also massively helped the poor and rural. Gravitycollapse Feb 2020 #12
Again, fuck a dictatorship ... nothing "complex" about that. Dahmer had a dog that doesn't make him uponit7771 Feb 2020 #13
Did Sanders claim Castro was a "net good person"? Gravitycollapse Feb 2020 #16
... neither did Trump say the words "quid pro quo" so that makes it OK right?!?! REALLY ?!!? uponit7771 Feb 2020 #22
Ah, I see you can't stay in topic. Goodnight. Gravitycollapse Feb 2020 #23
US has a long history of supporting dictators JonLP24 Feb 2020 #44
The person not the concept, fuck this is scary uponit7771 Feb 2020 #80
The Rs are not going to care about nuance or complexity mcar Feb 2020 #81
+1, and I just heard about Sanders voting record on guns. How are young people supposed to ... uponit7771 Feb 2020 #82
It's odd to me, and frightening, mcar Feb 2020 #83
The "bern-splain" on guns is Sanders record is bad with the NRA as if that erases his decades uponit7771 Feb 2020 #85
The NRA gives him a D- for fuck's sake. Cuthbert Allgood Feb 2020 #88
NRA ratings mean nothing uponit7771 Feb 2020 #90
Well if you are going to say he supports guns rights, it does. Cuthbert Allgood Feb 2020 #92
NRA is a hack organization who's ratings mean nothing, you know that uponit7771 Feb 2020 #93
Is that because the NRA has Biden and Sanders at the same level? Cuthbert Allgood Feb 2020 #95
LOL awesomerwb1 Feb 2020 #127
So, tell me something good about safeinOhio Feb 2020 #24
"There's deflection and false equivalencies here." blue-wave Feb 2020 #29
+1, omfg ... "he helped the poor" WTF ?!!? This is some mil spec rat f kin going on here. uponit7771 Feb 2020 #31
Yep - we need simple answers - for a simple time. el_bryanto Feb 2020 #91
Yeah dictatorships isn't a good answer to anything uponit7771 Feb 2020 #94
Castro promised all those good things to the poor True Blue American Feb 2020 #42
You very correct riverbendviewgal Feb 2020 #64
On a cruise in 2000 True Blue American Feb 2020 #66
Did the same in Russia. Toured and visited some great stuff, ignored breadlines, treatment of emmaverybo Feb 2020 #107
I didn't catch it. Was there any facts mixed in with the truth? fleabiscuit Feb 2020 #8
It's scary, some are intimating a dictatorship is net good because the poor where helped ... uponit7771 Feb 2020 #15
No, I'm not. I never once said a dictatorship is good in any way. Gravitycollapse Feb 2020 #18
But you were defending the "Cuban Revolution" blue-wave Feb 2020 #33
The poor were not helped. True Blue American Feb 2020 #43
The average voter (and we need a LOT of them) Cosmocat Feb 2020 #53
Here's someone who doesn't understand how electoral politics work.... Happy Hoosier Feb 2020 #72
Twisting a candidate's intent by extremist absolutes to bash Bernie now are we? lambchopp59 Feb 2020 #27
K&R, that's why I asked if there's a path without Florida cause it gone ... zip nada uponit7771 Feb 2020 #3
Castro was never cool Democrats Ascendant Feb 2020 #5
Just needed to add: Democrats Ascendant Feb 2020 #10
Castro and Ortega. n/t pnwmom Feb 2020 #14
A lot of us older folks DO remember Vogon_Glory Feb 2020 #17
Please don't insult an entire generation of young Americans Gravitycollapse Feb 2020 #19
Ah, the prospect of the glorious youth vote Vogon_Glory Feb 2020 #32
Oh Please! blue-wave Feb 2020 #34
I grew up and lived in Florida from 1961 to 1987 ms liberty Feb 2020 #52
So is "OK Boomer" but we hear it all the time anyway Happy Hoosier Feb 2020 #73
"Generation Tellytubbies" 😂 Duppers Feb 2020 #35
Count me in. True Blue American Feb 2020 #45
Ok history time. redixdoragon Feb 2020 #20
Thanks, just like safeinOhio Feb 2020 #28
More History Time blue-wave Feb 2020 #37
And even more history in video blue-wave Feb 2020 #38
Nothing was returned. True Blue American Feb 2020 #46
No lands were returned to ANY other than the dictator class Cubans...rich Casto Cubans AncientGeezer Feb 2020 #128
I know... For us over 50 crowd... we remember the boat people. eilen Feb 2020 #21
On that, Elian Gonzales True Blue American Feb 2020 #47
That's BS....entirely BS....on 57 ways... AncientGeezer Feb 2020 #129
Are you telling me True Blue American Feb 2020 #133
I understand the Law...100% I also know the BS propaganda that was being AncientGeezer Feb 2020 #135
Then you know Reno True Blue American Feb 2020 #136
Trump says he's "in love" with Kim Jong-un. SunSeeker Feb 2020 #25
I can't stop thinking about how he said that a JFK/Nixon debate when he was in betsuni Feb 2020 #26
+1 Docreed2003 Feb 2020 #70
Well, there goes Florida. I'd love to put people in touch with my brother's wife who was sent here NBachers Feb 2020 #30
Were there no orphanages tens of miles away? PTWB Feb 2020 #98
The Library of Congress will fill in the blanks for your snide and ignorant comment, if you care NBachers Feb 2020 #103
I'm not sure why you're upset. As Cuba is so close to the United States, your comment ... PTWB Feb 2020 #114
I'm not concerned about Castro JonLP24 Feb 2020 #36
When you're explaining you're losing redstateblues Feb 2020 #132
Buh bye Florida... Sugarcoated Feb 2020 #39
Only about a million Cuban Americans in Florida blue-wave Feb 2020 #40
The older generation were Republican True Blue American Feb 2020 #48
So what are you saying? blue-wave Feb 2020 #50
I am saying True Blue American Feb 2020 #54
Cuba asked for nuclear missiles to be put there tirebiter Feb 2020 #41
we have had a very long history of screwing Cuba ,Central & South America not to mention the yaesu Feb 2020 #49
Pretty simple ouija Feb 2020 #51
Simpler than that. MrsCoffee Feb 2020 #134
Please ouija Feb 2020 #137
You said it! True Blue American Feb 2020 #55
Obama praising Cuba's education system JonLP24 Feb 2020 #56
Were there any hair-on-fire freakouts about that? redqueen Feb 2020 #61
No because he gave caveats, had never been associated with socialists, except among emmaverybo Feb 2020 #108
Good points, but given his place in the race it's probably time redqueen Feb 2020 #109
His place is that he has won one caucus and one primary. emmaverybo Feb 2020 #113
That's funny because for months we were all reading here about how Biden was the leader redqueen Feb 2020 #115
Yes. He led in polls for nearly a year. Given his accomplishments, qualifications, experience, and emmaverybo Feb 2020 #117
All of which does nothing to explain why we were bombarded with "Biden is the leader" for months, redqueen Feb 2020 #118
He was the leader in polls, nationally and state by state. Given his unmatched resume, yes, many emmaverybo Feb 2020 #119
And now Bernie is leading in most polls - national and state. redqueen Feb 2020 #120
Indeed. He is the leader in most polls. Many still feel, however, that he is not electable in emmaverybo Feb 2020 #122
Do feelings determine who's the leader? redqueen Feb 2020 #124
I was proud of Obama for this democrattotheend Feb 2020 #97
In 1961 my friend Guido snuck out of his LSU dorm room before dawn, Croney Feb 2020 #57
As always, Sanders will get to skate on this and the downballot Dems will catch the shitstorm. Blue_Tires Feb 2020 #58
+1000 ehrnst Feb 2020 #59
President Sanders has promised to govern as the leader of the Democratic Party. What more you want?! InAbLuEsTaTe Feb 2020 #62
Bs also promised to release his medical records and hasn't... Alliepoo Feb 2020 #65
1. Isn't it a bit premature to call him "President" already? Blue_Tires Feb 2020 #69
1. No. 2. So? 3. Wrong! 3A. Okay, bye. 4. It's brilliant! InAbLuEsTaTe Feb 2020 #71
Pray tell, how in the name of Christ Blue_Tires Feb 2020 #78
Sanders praising Cuba's education system - BAD Nanjeanne Feb 2020 #60
You might want to look at social media this morning. nolabear Feb 2020 #100
Oh because the right needs something that's a big weapon. And they don't have anything on anyone Nanjeanne Feb 2020 #102
You're projecting. I said nothing about anyone else. nolabear Feb 2020 #123
He was asked a question and answered it truthfully Tarc Feb 2020 #63
That doesn't make the millstone any lighter, does it? NurseJackie Feb 2020 #68
Fuck Castro and his "Revolution". IluvPitties Feb 2020 #67
I don't understand what's so hard about this for some folks Docreed2003 Feb 2020 #74
We're in trouble. nt LexVegas Feb 2020 #75
Kick dalton99a Feb 2020 #76
taught people to read..... Deero Feb 2020 #77
+1. The literacy rate in North Korea is 100% dalton99a Feb 2020 #84
I have a brother who lives in NJ riverbendviewgal Feb 2020 #96
This isn't about Julian is it? still_one Feb 2020 #79
The Best Healthcare In Latin America corbettkroehler Feb 2020 #86
lol HarlanPepper Feb 2020 #110
Since That Fact Bothers You, I Reply, "Bring It On" corbettkroehler Feb 2020 #121
I'll just leave this here: Blue_Tires Feb 2020 #87
Wonder how she feels about Trump saying he loves Kim Jung un? nt Quixote1818 Feb 2020 #99
Same way most of us feel, which is disgusted? Blue_Tires Feb 2020 #112
Trump says Putin and all kinds of dictatorships are great. Quixote1818 Feb 2020 #89
Y'all might want to look at social media this morning and all media today. nolabear Feb 2020 #101
And it's just the beginning. dalton99a Feb 2020 #104
Rep. Barbara Lee: "He led a revolution in Cuba that led social improvements for his people." David__77 Feb 2020 #105
To people who see everything in terms of tribal thinking, yes. nt redqueen Feb 2020 #106
Yes but you're a supporter. nolabear Feb 2020 #111
It's a see you later tom HarlanPepper Feb 2020 #116
It's 4 yrs old...I'm betting she would be saying differently Today... AncientGeezer Feb 2020 #130
Maybe. I don't know. David__77 Feb 2020 #131
Allow President Obama To Clarify corbettkroehler Feb 2020 #125
... Scurrilous Feb 2020 #126
 

BlueTsunami2018

(3,461 posts)
1. These are the things that will kill us.
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:09 AM
Feb 2020

You can’t rationalize Castro.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
2. He's not rationalizing Castro. He's speaking the truth.
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:10 AM
Feb 2020

I’ll take the truth over spin.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
4. No he's not, he's picking out the good to rationalize the net bad. Like saying Dahmer had a dog
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:12 AM
Feb 2020

... so he wasn't that bad of a guy ... you know that, why reply like this?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
6. The Cuban revolution actually did some great things for Cubans.
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:14 AM
Feb 2020

Particularly the rural and poor. That is overshadowed by the authoritarianism. But it is not erased.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
7. Deflection, we're talking about net good vs net bad and you understand that. just stop
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:16 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
9. I will not stop supporting the truth. Even if it pains you.
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:18 AM
Feb 2020

Cuba is a complicated topic. It requires a complex analysis.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
11. There's deflection and false equivalencies here. Fuck dictatorships, simple analysis there.
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:21 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
12. It was a miserable dictatorship but also massively helped the poor and rural.
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:26 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
13. Again, fuck a dictatorship ... nothing "complex" about that. Dahmer had a dog that doesn't make him
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:29 AM
Feb 2020

... a net good person to be around and the same with Castro.

Cause he helped the poor ... really ?!

Bet he walked old ladies across the street too..

Fuck a dictatorship, plurality is where it is at.

Come the fuck on man.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
16. Did Sanders claim Castro was a "net good person"?
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:34 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
22. ... neither did Trump say the words "quid pro quo" so that makes it OK right?!?! REALLY ?!!?
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:39 AM
Feb 2020

Your positions are coming from right field yo.

Sanders didn't have to say the exact words "net good person" the intimation was there in the retort of the established "some good things happened".

So what?

That means what to the larger context of Fuck a dictatorship !?

That the good parts are OK ?!

fuck that

Fuck dictatorship and those who support them in any way

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
23. Ah, I see you can't stay in topic. Goodnight.
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:41 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
44. US has a long history of supporting dictators
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 06:01 AM
Feb 2020

You cannot tell me Saudi Arabia is a Democracy when every President since FDR allied with Saudi Arabia and one of the reasons why ironically is because Saudi Arabia is anti-communist but they are the most authoritarian government in the world with the worst women rights record in the world.

You act like the US has clean hands.

In the aftermath of World War II, the United States government struggled with the Soviet Union for global leadership, influence and security within the context of the Cold War. The United States government under the Eisenhower administration feared that national security would be compromised by governments propped by the Soviet Union's own involvement in regime change and promoted the domino theory, with later presidents following Eisenhower's precedent.[5] Subsequently, the United States expanded the geographic scope of its actions beyond traditional area of operations, Central America and the Caribbean. Significant operations included the United States and United Kingdom-orchestrated 1953 Iranian coup d'état, the 1961 Bay of Pigs Invasion targeting Cuba, and support for the overthrow of Sukarno by General Suharto in Indonesia. In addition, the U.S. has interfered in the national elections of countries, including in Japan in the 1950s and 1960s, the Philippines in 1953, and in Lebanon in the 1957 elections using secret cash infusions.[6] According to one study, the U.S. performed at least 81 overt and covert known interventions in foreign elections during the period 1946–2000.[7] Another study found that the U.S. engaged in 64 covert and six overt attempts at regime change during the Cold War.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
80. The person not the concept, fuck this is scary
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:13 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mcar

(42,210 posts)
81. The Rs are not going to care about nuance or complexity
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:14 AM
Feb 2020

They will run ad after ad in Florida showing BS praising Castro. Period. End of story.

While Bernie and his supporters are trying to explain the complexity, the Rs will stay on message and IMPOTUS will win Florida by 40 points.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
82. +1, and I just heard about Sanders voting record on guns. How are young people supposed to ...
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:16 AM
Feb 2020

... vote for the guy who supported their Vietnam (being terrorized by easy access to guns) for decades ?!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mcar

(42,210 posts)
83. It's odd to me, and frightening,
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:18 AM
Feb 2020

how all this gets ignored by his supporters. Or the "complexity" gets bern-splained.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
85. The "bern-splain" on guns is Sanders record is bad with the NRA as if that erases his decades
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:19 AM
Feb 2020

... of supporting easy access to guns !!

WTF, how is this guy the leading candidate now !?!?!



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cuthbert Allgood

(4,867 posts)
88. The NRA gives him a D- for fuck's sake.
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:36 AM
Feb 2020

He is not supporting easy access to guns.

But don't let the truth stop you.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
90. NRA ratings mean nothing
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:38 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cuthbert Allgood

(4,867 posts)
92. Well if you are going to say he supports guns rights, it does.
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:40 AM
Feb 2020

The one organization pushing for that thinks Sanders is doing a bad job.

Is this still the stupid manufacturer liability thing? Because that's nonsense.

But, whatever. People are just going to say what they want about Sanders without facts to back them up.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
93. NRA is a hack organization who's ratings mean nothing, you know that
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:41 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cuthbert Allgood

(4,867 posts)
95. Is that because the NRA has Biden and Sanders at the same level?
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:45 AM
Feb 2020

Because Sanders is not the pro gun hawk people want to portray him as. But, again, I'm sure the non-factual smears will continue.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

awesomerwb1

(4,256 posts)
127. LOL
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 06:54 PM
Feb 2020

Are you serious???

Wow. Is that why the poor get in overcrowded rafts and risk their lives trying to get to the US or other countries???

Wow.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

safeinOhio

(32,532 posts)
24. So, tell me something good about
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:47 AM
Feb 2020

Fulgencio Batista the dictatorship.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

blue-wave

(4,317 posts)
29. "There's deflection and false equivalencies here."
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:55 AM
Feb 2020

It looks like the bots are out in full force. Defending a murderous dictator like Castro? Really?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
31. +1, omfg ... "he helped the poor" WTF ?!!? This is some mil spec rat f kin going on here.
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:59 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
91. Yep - we need simple answers - for a simple time.
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:39 AM
Feb 2020

That's why people like Trump - he gives them simple answers. And if we want to beat Trump we need to emulate his simple answers.

Bryant

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
94. Yeah dictatorships isn't a good answer to anything
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:42 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Blue American

(17,972 posts)
42. Castro promised all those good things to the poor
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 05:58 AM
Feb 2020

Confiscated the mansions and land from the wealthy rulers. But then he became a Dictator keeping the people poor.

Of course the actions of the Administrations in this country did not help. Republicans backed the wealthy. Not until the Obama Administration did we begin to open doors for them. Trump killed that.

Castro did create a great medical system.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

riverbendviewgal

(4,251 posts)
64. You very correct
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:11 AM
Feb 2020

I took the toronto Transit bus to work in the 90s. I lived next door to the end of the line of the bus route. Going home I would sit across from the drivers and have conversations with them. One day we were talking about vacations. This driver said he always went to Cuba, for decades. He went before the revolution and continued after it.

He told me the Cuban people are vastly better after Castro came to power. Women were not selling their bodies and kids were not begging. People had food and doctors and shoes. His words.
The American embargo caused shortages of those things we in western nations. But the the important things like shelter, Health and food the Cuban people had that they didn't have before Castro..

I now go on vacations to Cuba. I love it. I am Canadian. Cubans love Canadians. We share many beliefs like health care for all and diversity.
True they have peeling paint on their houses but Everywhere I went in Cuba it was very clean. Peoplevseemed to ge very HAPPY.

I saw real poverty in West Virginia, Ohio, Kentucky and other states in my travels. People in Florida told me they had no health care.

Who is the better nation?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

True Blue American

(17,972 posts)
66. On a cruise in 2000
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:31 AM
Feb 2020

Going through the Panama Canal I had a chance to really listen to the many Canadians on the ship.

Every one of them told me how much they loved Clinton. We also discussed the Health care system in Canada. I have envied how your country established their system, starting with one Province.

Republicans have screwed the system up royally in this Country. Every time they manage to take one step fools elect another Republican and we go back 2 steps.

Republicans, including Congress have really done the worst this time.

Cuba is only 50 miles away from our shores, yet we could not go there. Obama had started fixing our relationship.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
107. Did the same in Russia. Toured and visited some great stuff, ignored breadlines, treatment of
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:38 PM
Feb 2020

dissidents, all the ugliness, and oops forgot Russia’s invasions and plan for world domination.

Bernie is still the 60’s firebrand infatuated with systems inimical to democracy because they offer some goodies. We all know he is not trying to make the US a socialist state. Problem is he doesn’t seem to know he gives fodder to Republicans and scares voters we will need. That shows lack of judgement.

Back to the drawing board Bernie. Figure out the economics of your economic plan and shut up about socialism. You won’t succeed in making it acceptable between now and November.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

fleabiscuit

(4,542 posts)
8. I didn't catch it. Was there any facts mixed in with the truth?
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:16 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
15. It's scary, some are intimating a dictatorship is net good because the poor where helped ...
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:32 AM
Feb 2020

... WTF are people loosing their minds around here.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
18. No, I'm not. I never once said a dictatorship is good in any way.
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:36 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

blue-wave

(4,317 posts)
33. But you were defending the "Cuban Revolution"
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 05:04 AM
Feb 2020

And guess who was the #1 key player in the Cuban revolution? Ding, ding, ding!! That's right, Castro! A murderous dictator. Bingo!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Blue American

(17,972 posts)
43. The poor were not helped.
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 05:59 AM
Feb 2020

They continued to live in poverty.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cosmocat

(14,543 posts)
53. The average voter (and we need a LOT of them)
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 06:56 AM
Feb 2020

Are not even remotely nuanced enough to see whatever "good side" Castro might have had.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Happy Hoosier

(7,081 posts)
72. Here's someone who doesn't understand how electoral politics work....
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:55 AM
Feb 2020

Truth doesn't really matter. Spin does. We fail to learn this at our peril.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

lambchopp59

(2,809 posts)
27. Twisting a candidate's intent by extremist absolutes to bash Bernie now are we?
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:51 AM
Feb 2020

“We’re very opposed to the authoritarian nature of Cuba, but, you know, it’s simply unfair to say everything is bad, You know? When Fidel Castro came into office, you know what he did? He had a massive literacy program. Is that a bad thing? Even though Fidel Castro did it?

Anderson Cooper: A lot of p-- dissidents imprisoned in-- in Cuba.

Bernie Sanders: That's right. And we condemn that. Unlike Donald Trump, let's be clear, you want to-- I do not think that Kim Jong Un is a good friend. I don't trade love letters with a murdering dictator. Vladimir Putin, not a great friend of mine.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
3. K&R, that's why I asked if there's a path without Florida cause it gone ... zip nada
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:11 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 
5. Castro was never cool
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:13 AM
Feb 2020

Che Guevara somehow has been fashionable, but this is a toughie.... *smh*

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 
10. Just needed to add:
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:19 AM
Feb 2020

I was there in 2005 and NOBODY, literally NOBODY wanted to say anything nice about Castro. I guess they knew I wasn't Cuban based on my Spanish (not Cubano), but I was stunned that there was so much dissent - and LOVE for capitalism - in Cuba. Don't get me started....

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
14. Castro and Ortega. n/t
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:30 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Vogon_Glory

(9,086 posts)
17. A lot of us older folks DO remember
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:35 AM
Feb 2020

Even those of us (like me) who were too young for our parents to allow us to ride in the street back then, but it looks like that the Generation Tellytubbies for Sanders seems to be brushing it off.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
19. Please don't insult an entire generation of young Americans
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:37 AM
Feb 2020

It’s selfish and rude.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Vogon_Glory

(9,086 posts)
32. Ah, the prospect of the glorious youth vote
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 05:01 AM
Feb 2020

Sanders has a lock on the entire youth vote? That’s rather presumptive.

I don’t feel apologetic for pointing out to ahistorical Bernie-philes that his comments about Cuba and other Marxist-socialist (As opposed to Western European social-democracies) will be taken very badly by Latino emigres from Cuba (And the ones now taking out US citizenship papers from Venezuela), and that such comments will be used for attack ads by Orange Julius and his fans.

Nor do I like brushing off the chances for Democratic pick-ups in states and districts with a lot of ex-military voters. The impeachment trial just past showed a lot of stuff that went well beyond partisan politics and into honest-to-gosh treason.

You may know a little Spanish or have friends who know a little about Latin American politics. Have you ever heard of the term “Vendepatria”? It was a term used by Latin liberals and leftists for those who sold out the fatherland (the homeland) to foreigners for money or favors.

In case you haven’t noticed, the investigations during Orange Julius’ impeachment trial have shown that there are by-golly REAL vendepatrias in the highest levels of the Executive Branch here in los Estados Unidos.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

blue-wave

(4,317 posts)
34. Oh Please!
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 05:13 AM
Feb 2020

When you learn something about Cuba and the communist takeover of the country, then let's talk. I not only studied it in school, I had neighbors and friends who were Cuban refugees. The communist takeover of Cuba was and is nothing to brag about. It was a dirty, savage takeover of a country and it's people, murdering thousands in the process. It also served to be an extremely serious threat to the safety of all Americans.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ms liberty

(8,479 posts)
52. I grew up and lived in Florida from 1961 to 1987
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 06:54 AM
Feb 2020

I went to school with kids who fled Cuba with their families or were born right after, and I knew their families. So I am at least as aware as you of the Cuban's beliefs about Castro but I take it for what it is. But, I also know the history. Bernie is accurate in his statement.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Happy Hoosier

(7,081 posts)
73. So is "OK Boomer" but we hear it all the time anyway
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:56 AM
Feb 2020

Disclosure: I am not a Boomer.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Duppers

(28,094 posts)
35. "Generation Tellytubbies" 😂
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 05:20 AM
Feb 2020

Love it!!

My 33yo is backing Bernie but I doubt he'll vote in the primary - always "too busy." I keep sending him info.
Once backed Bernie myself but not now, unless he's our nominee, then it's Vote Blue No Matter Who.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redixdoragon

(156 posts)
20. Ok history time.
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:37 AM
Feb 2020
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Literacy_Campaign Was one of the first things done if not the first following the revolution. Efforts were made to desegregate schools. Yes, a lot of lot of land of the rich and white and notably american investors were seized, returned to native, poorer, Cubans who'd been working those lands.

Meanwhile we did what we always do and orchestrated a coup using former Cuban exiles led by the CIA, because our moneyed interests were at stake, again, like the Shah in Iran. Or the support for Saddam's Ba'ath party in Iraq.

Bernie is not looking at the leader's actions from an imperial/anti-imperal standpoint, but from "What is he doing to uplift and support the vast majority of the poor of his nation, to improve their lives."

We've been trying to do coups on anyone and everyone not playing ball, or tend to invade them. Endless wars aren't just Iraq and Afganastan. Or our war on terror. They come up when somebody has something we want, and it's cheaper, or mor profitable, to just take it than trade for it. Stopping this, that's what I think Sanders means by ending "Endless wars."

The Cuban Missile Crisis is over.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

safeinOhio

(32,532 posts)
28. Thanks, just like
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:54 AM
Feb 2020

everyone thinks Iran is evil without looking at the Shah and how the US and Britain installed him. They don't hate us for our freedoms. One must look at Fulgencio Batista too.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

blue-wave

(4,317 posts)
37. More History Time
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 05:36 AM
Feb 2020
How many deaths was Fidel Castro responsible for?

"Accredited author, Mario Lazo in his book Dagger in the Heart : American Policy Failures in Cuba, placed his, now dated, 1968 estimate at 50,000 deaths. For some to cavalierly disregard such death toll estimates as "lunatic estimates from the exile community" is beyond callousness."

"Miguel A. Faria's book, Cuba in Revolution (2002), op. cit., pp. 415-416, states the following: "Since Fidel Castro took over the island in 1959, the best figures that we can glean is that between 30,000 to 40,000 people either have been executed en los paredones de fusilamiento (in the firing squad wall) or have died in the hands of their communist jailers. Mr. Faria also estimates: "The best conservative estimate is that between 30,000 to 40,000 Cubans have perished attempting to flee Castro's regime, mostly succumbing in the treacherous waters of the Florida Straits. My figures for death at sea are consistent with Juan Clark's" Cuba: Mito y Realidad, "who estimated that more than 16,000 Cubans had made it to freedom since 1959 up to the time of the publication of the book in 1992. Clark estimated that figure represented only one out of three Cubans who attempted to make it to freedom. Countless thousands of others have died indirectly as a result of Fidel Castro's collectivist policies, unspeakable privations, malnutrition, and the general desolation of a once more prosperous island."

https://www.quora.com/How-many-deaths-was-Fidel-Castro-responsible-for?share=1
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

blue-wave

(4,317 posts)
38. And even more history in video
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 05:39 AM
Feb 2020

Why are they celebrating if Castro was such a great guy?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Blue American

(17,972 posts)
46. Nothing was returned.
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 06:04 AM
Feb 2020

Idle promises. Republicans in this country backed the wealthy Cubans and Americans.

Florida was totally Republican because of those who moved there,denpmanding their land back.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

AncientGeezer

(2,146 posts)
128. No lands were returned to ANY other than the dictator class Cubans...rich Casto Cubans
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 07:11 PM
Feb 2020

How do you not know that?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

eilen

(4,950 posts)
21. I know... For us over 50 crowd... we remember the boat people.
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:37 AM
Feb 2020

It was a humanitarian disaster. Cubans taking their chances on the open sea in small boats rather than face Castro's soldiers. Remember that little boy- who's mother died and Bush sent him back?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Blue American

(17,972 posts)
47. On that, Elian Gonzales
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 06:09 AM
Feb 2020

Was sent back to his Father. Janet Reno approved that raid. A drunken uncle and other family members were using him. His Mother died during the boat crossing.

Reno did the right thing because he wanted to be with his father.

I spent a lot of vacation in FLA. Am quite aware of the boat people.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

AncientGeezer

(2,146 posts)
129. That's BS....entirely BS....on 57 ways...
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 07:19 PM
Feb 2020

You do this to family in the US(?)....his Mom tried getting him here....the kid had NO clue where he wanted to be...he was a 5y/o kid who's Mom died getting him here....
This is that raid....prompted by the bullshit pushed by Reno....
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=&w=767

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

True Blue American

(17,972 posts)
133. Are you telling me
Tue Feb 25, 2020, 06:29 AM
Feb 2020

That did not happen? I disagree. Janet Reno had to do that because the family were using Elian.

A drunken uncle and niece would not turn him over. In case you do not understand the law his Father was his guardian and had all the rights on his side. The uncle and niece did not!

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2016/11/27/elian-gonzalez-sanchez-pkg.cnn/video/playlists/rewind-elian-

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

AncientGeezer

(2,146 posts)
135. I understand the Law...100% I also know the BS propaganda that was being
Tue Feb 25, 2020, 09:10 AM
Feb 2020

blown out of Cuba and DC.
Apparently people fell for it

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

True Blue American

(17,972 posts)
136. Then you know Reno
Tue Feb 25, 2020, 09:14 AM
Feb 2020

Had a rough choice to make.

Elian was 6 years old, not old enough to make a choice. His Father had custody. I watched the whole thing unfold, including Elian being happily reunited with his Father

Those are facts, not just one picture you posted.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

SunSeeker

(51,378 posts)
25. Trump says he's "in love" with Kim Jong-un.
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:47 AM
Feb 2020

I guess saying nice things about murderous dictators is kinda in fashion.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

betsuni

(25,138 posts)
26. I can't stop thinking about how he said that a JFK/Nixon debate when he was in
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:50 AM
Feb 2020

college made him "physically nauseated" that JFK was against the Cuban revolution about which he was "excited and impressed," convincing him that both parties were the same and politics wasn't the answer: "conventional politics or liberalism was not what was relevant." His recent ad "Strive" begins with JFK.

Fine, lots of people were excited about the Russian revolution, too (saw Warren Beatty's "Reds" a couple of months ago and things did not work out for John Reed and Emma Goldman; Isadora Duncan went to Russia after the revolution and things didn't work out well either.) In the end people are people and there are always problems. Nobody except Republicans think the Cuban revolution was all bad. The vintage American cars are fabulous. President Obama re-opened the U.S. relationship with Cuba. Yes, Teh Democratic Establishment!

But Bernie STILL thinks both parties are the same and that change cannot come from within.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NBachers

(17,007 posts)
30. Well, there goes Florida. I'd love to put people in touch with my brother's wife who was sent here
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 04:58 AM
Feb 2020

by her parents at the age of 12 to live in an orphanage so she didn't have to live in Cuba.

She went on to become a brilliant Atomic Engineer and has established a very successful life and family here. Her parents eventually came, and established themselves and contributed to the United States of America.

A long-time ex-Miami resident, I certainly have my issues with the political orientation of many Cuban refugees. But, ask yourself- what kind or conditions would you have to live under to send your beloved 12 year old daughter to live in an orphanage in a foreign country thousands of miles away; never knowing if you'd ever see her again or not?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
98. Were there no orphanages tens of miles away?
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:04 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NBachers

(17,007 posts)
103. The Library of Congress will fill in the blanks for your snide and ignorant comment, if you care
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:51 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

PTWB

(4,131 posts)
114. I'm not sure why you're upset. As Cuba is so close to the United States, your comment ...
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:33 PM
Feb 2020

about orphanages “thousands of miles away” piqued my interest. Thanks for the link.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
36. I'm not concerned about Castro
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 05:26 AM
Feb 2020

Column: Why Castro was so deeply loved by some, and hated by others

While many white Americans associate Castro with communism and dictatorship, many African-Americans associate Castro with liberation – citing Castro’s meeting with Malcolm X and granting political asylum to Assata Shakur as examples. Within the black community globally, Castro’s contributions to anti-colonialist struggles are weighed alongside criticisms of his crackdown on dissent and racial disparities on the island.

Castro’s legacy is one of complexity and controversy and the split in perceptions of heroism and tyranny along racial and ethnic lines goes beyond the contentious relationship between the United States and Cuba. For some, Castro’s vision and implementation of Cuban internationalism, and contributions to anti-colonialist movements significantly impacted the lives of millions of people throughout the world.

He focused largely on medical and educational collaborations and furthering the fight against imperial rule — providing military assistance that led to independence in Namibia and the end of apartheid rule in South Africa. Thousands of Africans have been educated in Cuba over the past five decades with costs of attendance being split between the Cuban government and the government of the student’s nation.

The heroes of the United States have not necessarily aligned with the heroes of marginalized peoples of this country nor with the heroes of the Global South.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/castro_loved-hated

This is who I'm concerned about who Obama and Clinton allied with -- Saudi Arabia. Even the Clinton Foundation got donations from the House of Saud.

A Bernie Sanders presidency could be a nightmare for Saudi Arabia

Picture for a moment Senator Bernie Sanders winning the US presidential election this November and then heading to a scheduled meeting next year with Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (known as MBS).

In a clash of persona and style, President Sanders would most likely make a lengthy statement about his "political revolution", while sitting next to MBS, and the White House press corps crowded into the Oval Office would awkwardly ask him how he was going to manage a meeting with rulers he once called "murderous thugs".

Would that be the Saudi leadership's nightmare scenario for a post-Donald Trump presidency?

Sanders, who is currently the frontrunner in the Democratic primaries, made this bold statement about the Saudi leadership during a town hall meeting in Nevada on February 18, just as US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo was stepping on to a flight for a three-day visit to Riyadh.

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/bernie-sanders-presidency-nightmare-saudi-arabia-200223070957319.html

I prefer Sanders standing up to Saudi Arabia (which he has a record of doing with his bipartisan effort to end the Yemen War which Trump vetoed) over him telling the truth that literacy improved in Cuba. Also health care improved. Keep in mind before Castro the US backed a dictator which is probably why they allied with the Soviet Union to protect Cuba from the US.

I don't know who shot JFK or why but I do know the mafia wanted back into Cuba. One of the mafia leaders the CIA allied with said that the CIA and mafia were two sides of the same coin.

Alleged CIA connections
It is widely reputed and was partially corroborated by the Church Committee hearings that during the Kennedy administration, the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) recruited Giancana and other mobsters to assassinate Fidel Castro. Giancana reportedly said that CIA and the Cosa Nostra were "different sides of the same coin".[10]

Judith Exner claimed to be the mistress of both Giancana and JFK, and that she delivered communications between them about Castro.[11] Giancana's daughter Antoinette has stated that her father was performing a scam to pocket millions of CIA dollars.[12]

Documents released during 1997 revealed that some Mafiosi worked with CIA on assassination attempts against Castro.[13] CIA documents released during 2007 confirmed that during September 1960, CIA recruited ex-FBI agent Robert Maheu to meet with the West Coast representative of the Chicago mob, Johnny Roselli. When Maheu contacted Roselli, Maheu hid that he was sent by CIA, instead portraying himself an advocate for international corporations. He offered $150,000 to have Castro killed, but Roselli refused any pay. Roselli introduced Maheu to two men he called Sam Gold and Joe. "Sam Gold" was Giancana; "Joe" was Santo Trafficante Jr., the Tampa/Miami syndicate boss and one of the most powerful mobsters in prerevolution Cuba.[14] Glenn Kessler of The Washington Post explained: "After Fidel Castro led a revolution that toppled the government of Fulgencio Batista in 1959, CIA was desperate to eliminate Castro. So, the agency sought out a partner equally worried about Castro—the Mafia, which had lucrative investments in Cuban casinos."[15]

According to the declassified CIA "Family Jewels" documents, Giancana and Trafficante were contacted in September 1960 about the possibility of an assassination attempt by Maheu after Maheu had contacted Roselli, a Mafia member in Las Vegas and Giancana's number-two man. Maheu had presented himself as a representative of numerous international businesses in Cuba that Castro was expropriating. He offered $150,000 for the "removal" of Castro through this operation (the documents suggest that neither Roselli, Giancana, nor Trafficante accepted any payment for the job). Giancana suggested using poison pills to dose Castro's food and drink. CIA gave these pills to Giancana's nominee, Juan Orta, whom Giancana presented as a corrupt official in the new Cuban government and who had access to Castro. After six attempts to introduce the poison into Castro's food, Orta abruptly demanded to be relieved from the mission, giving the job to another, unnamed participant. Later, Giancana and Trafficante made a second attempt using Anthony Verona, the commander of the Cuban Exile Junta, who had, according to Trafficante, become "disaffected with the apparent ineffectual progress of the Junta". Verona requested $10,000 in expenses and $1,000 worth of communications equipment. How much work was performed for the second attempt is unknown, as the entire program was canceled soon thereafter due to the Bay of Pigs invasion in April 1961.[16][17][18]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Giancana#Alleged_CIA_connections

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
132. When you're explaining you're losing
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 08:44 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

blue-wave

(4,317 posts)
40. Only about a million Cuban Americans in Florida
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 05:51 AM
Feb 2020

I'd say that's a sizable voting bloc.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Blue American

(17,972 posts)
48. The older generation were Republican
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 06:13 AM
Feb 2020

The younger do not remember Castro or Cuba. Big change.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

blue-wave

(4,317 posts)
50. So what are you saying?
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 06:39 AM
Feb 2020

They admire, as Bernie does, Castro's policies? I'm sure a very sizable majority of the younger Cuban Americans remember the brutal treatment suffered by their parents and grandparents under the Castro regime. Watch the video I posted above. Lot's of young Cuban Americans in the crowd.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Blue American

(17,972 posts)
54. I am saying
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 07:11 AM
Feb 2020

“ The young are more likely to vote Democrat.” They do not remember Cuba or Castro.

The wealthy older generation spent their lives voting Republican because they were open to getting their mansions and land back. That generation is almost gome.

I do not think they would vote for a Socialist.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tirebiter

(2,520 posts)
41. Cuba asked for nuclear missiles to be put there
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 05:53 AM
Feb 2020

Russia would not give any launch codes to Castro because he wanted to fire them at us. The Cuban Missile Crisis brought us closer to nuclear war than any time before or since. Luckily The US had a no first use policy. OK, Castro was a baseball fan.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

yaesu

(8,020 posts)
49. we have had a very long history of screwing Cuba ,Central & South America not to mention the
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 06:32 AM
Feb 2020

multitude of countries overseas. Where is the "outrage" about that? Oh, and Cuba was a pawn during the Cold War, not a player.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ouija

(397 posts)
51. Pretty simple
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 06:48 AM
Feb 2020

You are either going to vote for Sanders or it’s a vote for Trump. We have choices in life.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

MrsCoffee

(5,801 posts)
134. Simpler than that.
Tue Feb 25, 2020, 06:51 AM
Feb 2020

Sanders is not going to be the nominee, so, no, I am not going to vote Sanders nor Trump.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ouija

(397 posts)
137. Please
Tue Feb 25, 2020, 12:39 PM
Feb 2020

Tell me who is going to be the nominee because MSNBC is giving its best shot to stop Sanders and it appears not to be working?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
56. Obama praising Cuba's education system
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 07:14 AM
Feb 2020

Last edited Mon Feb 24, 2020, 08:25 AM - Edit history (2)




John Kerry under Obama wanted to normalize relations with Cuba. Lets continue that.

On edit: It looks like those that have moral outrage over Sanders don't share it when it comes to Obama. I'm used to that.

This is a better Tweet.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
61. Were there any hair-on-fire freakouts about that?
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 08:53 AM
Feb 2020

Hmmmmm

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
108. No because he gave caveats, had never been associated with socialists, except among
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:46 PM
Feb 2020

conspiracists, and had not praised authoritarian socialist and communist regimes. No Russian Honeymoon and “I am a socialist” tapes. Bernie has to work harder to show he’s not a subversive.
We know he’s not. Middle America doesn’t study the nuances of political science, however.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
109. Good points, but given his place in the race it's probably time
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:55 PM
Feb 2020

for Dems to stop flogging right wing talking points about him. We all know them.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
113. His place is that he has won one caucus and one primary.
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:20 PM
Feb 2020

Biden still leads in swing states in head to toe match up with Trump. Polls influenced by votes and vs. versa.

So we need to see. Only MSM has crowned Bernie prematurely.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
115. That's funny because for months we were all reading here about how Biden was the leader
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:51 PM
Feb 2020

but I guess now that has changed so no one is the leader now

Makes sense? Somehow?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
117. Yes. He led in polls for nearly a year. Given his accomplishments, qualifications, experience, and
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:06 PM
Feb 2020

wide appeal across the political spectrum and diverse communities, it was natural at the time to envision him as a leader. However, MSM, far from anointing him prematurely, in the face of his poll leads and strong support, bashed and dismissed him alternately.

He was, unlike Bernie, vetted again and again.

Unlike Bernie he has demonstrable presidential qualifications. Saying so takes nothing away from
Bernie’s singular achievement in creating and leading a revolution. However, some of us believe economic revolution is the opposite of what will appeal in the GE. We also want to know what the revolution will cost.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
118. All of which does nothing to explain why we were bombarded with "Biden is the leader" for months,
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:27 PM
Feb 2020

and now there's no leader.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
119. He was the leader in polls, nationally and state by state. Given his unmatched resume, yes, many
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:35 PM
Feb 2020

thought him most electable. No one contended other than that. Now that we are voting, many ask
that we allow the primary contest to play out so that states with more diverse populations, particularly of AA voters, have a chance to vote.

Biden won 39 percent of AA voters in Nevada.

Bernie is finally getting vetted. So, honestly we have no “leader” yet, but will soon.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
120. And now Bernie is leading in most polls - national and state.
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 02:36 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
122. Indeed. He is the leader in most polls. Many still feel, however, that he is not electable in
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:36 PM
Feb 2020

the GE and that Biden would have a better chance. We can only speculate on that as a primary does not give the full picture.

Joe still leads in polls in six out of seven swing states in Trump match ups.

So. Uncle! Bernie leads in delegate counts and in many polls. In some, he and Biden are tied.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
124. Do feelings determine who's the leader?
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:44 PM
Feb 2020

I didn't know that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

democrattotheend

(11,605 posts)
97. I was proud of Obama for this
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:52 AM
Feb 2020

But I am pretty far left on this issue so I am probably not representative of the general public.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Croney

(4,646 posts)
57. In 1961 my friend Guido snuck out of his LSU dorm room before dawn,
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 07:58 AM
Feb 2020

headed for Bay of Pigs, and I never saw him again. Two years later I married a Cuban student whose entire family had left Cuba. His parents and ancient grandmother came to live with us in New Orleans, before returning to live in Miami. His parents had not been rich in Cuba; they were teachers.

Those people are dead now. Their mantra was "next year in Cuba," always hoping things would change and they could go home. They wanted to be buried standing up, because they couldn't rest except in their home ground.

Their descendants, young and old, hate Castro. Hating Castro is what Cubans in the U.S. do. Throwing away Cuban votes is insane.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
58. As always, Sanders will get to skate on this and the downballot Dems will catch the shitstorm.
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 08:20 AM
Feb 2020

Since Sanders can flip his switch back to "INDEPENDENT" whenever it suits him...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
62. President Sanders has promised to govern as the leader of the Democratic Party. What more you want?!
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:02 AM
Feb 2020

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Alliepoo

(2,196 posts)
65. Bs also promised to release his medical records and hasn't...
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:24 AM
Feb 2020

How do we believe or trust him on other issues?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
69. 1. Isn't it a bit premature to call him "President" already?
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:40 AM
Feb 2020

2. You know this doesn't magically make the Castro thing disappear, right?

3. I have never, ever seen anything resembling "leadership" from Sanders regarding party policy or anything else. It's optimistic to think he'll start now...

3A. I don't know if you're on Twitter, but all the Berners are talking about purges and chopping off heads of "establishment" Dems... This doesn't really fill me with confidence knowing his campaign sees me as an enemy who need to "bow" to their divine right to rule. If all we get from this primary is "TRUMP! -- BUT FROM THE LEFT THIS TIME!" then you can leave me out.

4. As I've said elsewhere, two New Englanders at the top of the ticket is a really fucking dumb idea for reasons too numerous to list.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
71. 1. No. 2. So? 3. Wrong! 3A. Okay, bye. 4. It's brilliant!
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:48 AM
Feb 2020

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
78. Pray tell, how in the name of Christ
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:08 AM
Feb 2020

are two New Englanders at the top of the ticket "brilliant"?

Did the math of the electoral college change when I wasn't looking?? Or are you content to write off the entire South?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Nanjeanne

(4,878 posts)
60. Sanders praising Cuba's education system - BAD
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 08:52 AM
Feb 2020

Obama praising Cuba’s education system - Bad too? Or Good? So confusing.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

nolabear

(41,915 posts)
100. You might want to look at social media this morning.
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:10 AM
Feb 2020

He gave them a rocket launcher. You can argue right or wrong all you want. You can agree with the “trains run on time” argument. You can point out BS’s good qualities too.

He gave the right a big, big weapon and they will use it to tear us apart.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Nanjeanne

(4,878 posts)
102. Oh because the right needs something that's a big weapon. And they don't have anything on anyone
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:23 AM
Feb 2020

else.

This is bogus and silly. The right will continue to fabricate anything they want about Warren, Biden, Pete et al. They will take many statements from each of those people and run with them. Bernie at least has a full statement praising the education system (as did Obama) while lambasting the political/economic system.

I'm constantly amazed at how people think the right are going to go after Bernie but not any other candidate. They don't need facts - they make it up.

Oh lookie . . .


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

nolabear

(41,915 posts)
123. You're projecting. I said nothing about anyone else.
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:44 PM
Feb 2020

They do indeed make things up. Those can be disputed, for better or for worse. If your candidate was smart he’d walk into this with humility, an open desire to not only defend but understand how alarming this is to many, accurately or not, and stop condescending to those who worry about what the right will use to foment rage and massive voter turnout.

So far I’ve not seen that, from him or his followers.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Tarc

(10,472 posts)
63. He was asked a question and answered it truthfully
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:05 AM
Feb 2020

I'd much rather have this than the usually equivocating backpedal of a on-answer most of the others would have given.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
68. That doesn't make the millstone any lighter, does it?
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:36 AM
Feb 2020

We can do better than Bernie.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

IluvPitties

(3,181 posts)
67. Fuck Castro and his "Revolution".
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:36 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Docreed2003

(16,817 posts)
74. I don't understand what's so hard about this for some folks
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 09:58 AM
Feb 2020

I don't give a FUCK if Castro helped the poor or did or did't do what he promised. I don't care that Sanders is showing his leftist 60's idealism by saying the things he's said about Castro. It doesn't matter AT ALL what any of us on the left think. This isn't fucking 1962 and holding on to some kind of 60's leftist bullshit about how great Castro could have been, or, to the constrast, how brutal the Castro regime was doesn't matter HERE in this moment.

The real issue is this: WHY THE HELL WOULD WE WILLINGLY YOKE OURSELVES TO SOMEONE WHO IS UNREPENTANT ABOUT THEIR RADICALISM AND SEEMS UNWILLING TO RECONSIDER THAT EVEN YEARS LATER???

Are we going to twist ourselves into pretzels explaining to the masses "well this is what socialism really means" or "yeah Bernie said that but let me explain why"....Jesus the moment you say the words Yeah BUT, you've lost the argument.

The vast vast majority of Americans aren't going to want to have an intellectual debate about the merits of socialism/Democratic Socialism/60's leftist ideologies they're just not...people will fall back on their deeply ingrained and brainwashed positions of "x is bad".

Some of us are trying to point out these facts to folks here but it feels like we're the ignored canaries in the coal mine. I hope I'm wrong, I pray I'm wrong, but I've seen little to convince myself that the average American is going to sit down and say "Yeah, ok that makes sense why Bernie would say nice things about Castro or Soviet Russia or Latin American dictatorships".

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LexVegas

(6,005 posts)
75. We're in trouble. nt
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:05 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Deero

(86 posts)
77. taught people to read.....
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:07 AM
Feb 2020

so that he could more easily spread propaganda to the population.

It's not like he did this for a more informed electorate and got everyone a subscription to the NYT. He did it solely to tighten his grip on them.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

dalton99a

(81,073 posts)
84. +1. The literacy rate in North Korea is 100%
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:18 AM
Feb 2020
(CIA World Factbook)


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

riverbendviewgal

(4,251 posts)
96. I have a brother who lives in NJ
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:51 AM
Feb 2020

He loves Trump. He said he would die for Trump. He is always telling me he is proud to be ignorant of anything outside of the USA. He watches FOX and thinks Hannity should be president. We went to the same schools. I am almost deaf so I spent my childhood and teens in the library reading. I went around the world, in the past, present and future. I loved national Geographic. I love JFK.
I got my much needed hearing aid in Canada with the help of Canadian doctors.

I am of Polish heritage. Both sets of Grandparents came to Ellis Island in the 20s. My mother forbid me to learn Polish. She was ashamed of being from immigrants. My mother only read the shopping ads. My dad only. read the sports page. When they were alive they both lovedTrump.
I read the NY daily News while Eichmann was on trial. I was 12. Reading made my beliefs and how I think today.

Once My mother told me I was weird because I read.

I went to Obama's 1st inauguration party in Toronto. I Stood next to his cardboard image proudly to have my picture taken. I Gave my best friend a windshield air purifier with Obama's picture I got at that party. She still has it hanging in her car to this day.

I left America in 1969. Became a Canadian in 1993. Relinquished my American citizenship the same year.
I still care about my neighbor to the south.

I must warn you there are many people like my brother and friends in blue state NJ who hate Obama and love Trump.

I feel sickened at the thought of these people full of hatred in control of my motherland.

Up here in Canada most of are hoping Trump is voted out.

Mr. Baur was right in 1964. The collapse of USA democracy is happening in the time frame he predicted. Mr. Baur was my US history teacher in high school. Two years ago he wrote me and told me I made the correct choice coming to Canada.

Pray, protest, campaign and vote that POS out.

PS I have been visiting Cuba for years now, after going to Florida for winters. Cuba is wonderful. A Canadian bus driver visited Cuba before Castro and after. He told me the people are vastly better off under Castro. Just the rich Cubans before Castro are not. I always think of that scene in Godfather II of new years eve where the rich Cubans were celebrating. Once the revolution began They left with their riches they could take to Florida.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

still_one

(91,965 posts)
79. This isn't about Julian is it?
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:09 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

corbettkroehler

(1,898 posts)
86. The Best Healthcare In Latin America
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:26 AM
Feb 2020

Cuba is third behind the United States and Canada within the Americas for medical tourism and has been so for decades. Heads of state from around Latin America routinely leave their own nations to visit Cuba in order to receive treatment.

If you paused your moral outrage for a moment and pondered the humanity, you might realize that this is A YUGE STATISTIC and quite meaningful.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

HarlanPepper

(2,042 posts)
110. lol
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:01 PM
Feb 2020

The naivety and lack of understanding of how messaging works is breathtaking. You have no idea what you are in for.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

corbettkroehler

(1,898 posts)
121. Since That Fact Bothers You, I Reply, "Bring It On"
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 03:13 PM
Feb 2020

Last edited Mon Feb 24, 2020, 05:44 PM - Edit history (1)

Cuba under the Castros has had major problems for generations. However, IT IS A DOCUMENTED FACT, irrespective of whether you like it, that medical tourism is big business in Cuba. YES, IT IS A DOCUMENTED FACT.

Dispute it with opinion if you like but the facts are on my side and I have full confidence that DUers will struggle to disprove my point.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Quixote1818

(28,904 posts)
99. Wonder how she feels about Trump saying he loves Kim Jung un? nt
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:08 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
112. Same way most of us feel, which is disgusted?
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:07 PM
Feb 2020

Although I imagine if she was Korean-American and had a district with a heavy Korean-American population she'd be even more vocal

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Quixote1818

(28,904 posts)
89. Trump says Putin and all kinds of dictatorships are great.
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 10:36 AM
Feb 2020

This is a wash.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

nolabear

(41,915 posts)
101. Y'all might want to look at social media this morning and all media today.
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 11:12 AM
Feb 2020

He gave the right a bomb and they’re using it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

dalton99a

(81,073 posts)
104. And it's just the beginning.
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:01 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

David__77

(23,220 posts)
105. Rep. Barbara Lee: "He led a revolution in Cuba that led social improvements for his people."
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:11 PM
Feb 2020

The reference was to Fidel Castro.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2016/11/26/congresswoman-barbara-lee-castro-should-be-mourned/

Not saying I agree or disagree. I do think that this statement is pretty tame:

We’re very opposed to the authoritarian nature of Cuba, but you know, it’s unfair to simply say everything is bad. You know? When Fidel Castro came into office, you know what he did? He had a massive literacy program. Is that a bad thing? Even though Fidel Castro did it?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
106. To people who see everything in terms of tribal thinking, yes. nt
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 12:30 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

nolabear

(41,915 posts)
111. Yes but you're a supporter.
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:03 PM
Feb 2020

This is the biggest issue—he said something you might say in conversation and I’d nod and might argue with you but it would end there. To say it in front of a camera, then do anything other than humbly say that it was a one off in a broad context of condemnation and that Castro was a dictator, a monster, a threat to his people and to America, an ally to Russia in their ongoing attempt to take down America, etc. is handing the right the weapon of your destruction. They will rally around it for the rest of the campaign. Florida is done. Older Americans are done. “Our Revolution” takes on a threatening meaning, even though I know—well, I think—it’s different.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

HarlanPepper

(2,042 posts)
116. It's a see you later tom
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 01:54 PM
Feb 2020

Anything the DL says is a golden nugget of truth.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

AncientGeezer

(2,146 posts)
130. It's 4 yrs old...I'm betting she would be saying differently Today...
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 08:26 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

David__77

(23,220 posts)
131. Maybe. I don't know.
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 08:34 PM
Feb 2020

I'd love to see her as Secretary of State.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

corbettkroehler

(1,898 posts)
125. Allow President Obama To Clarify
Mon Feb 24, 2020, 06:50 PM
Feb 2020

I suspect that this will settle the matter.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Democratic Primaries»Castro? Jesus Christ, CAS...