Bernie Sanders' disastrous answer on '60 Minutes

[SunSeeker]

Here's the exchange between Sanders and Anderson Cooper on "60 Minutes":

Cooper: Do you know how all -- how much though? I mean, do you have a price tag for -- for all of this?

Sanders: We do. I mean, you know, and -- and-- the price tag is -- it will be substantially less than letting the current system go. I think it's about $30 trillion.

Cooper: That's just for "Medicare for All," you're talking about?

Sanders: That's just "Medicare for All," yes.

Cooper: Do you have -- a price tag for all of these things?

Sanders: No, I don't. We try to -- no, you mentioned making public colleges and universities tuition free and canceling all student debt, that's correct. That's what I want to do. We pay for that through a modest tax on Wall Street speculation.

Cooper: But you say you don't know what the total price is, but you know how it's gonna be paid for. How do you know it's gonna be paid for if you don't know how much the price is?

Sanders: Well, I can't -- you know, I can't rattle off to you every nickel and every dime. But we have accounted for -- you -- you talked about "Medicare for All." We have options out there that will pay for it.

"Experts estimate that Sanders' major proposals would cost a staggering $60 trillion and would double the size of the government (while his tax plans fall $27 trillion short of paying for it). There's a reason that, when pressed on the cost of his plans, Sanders simply refuses to answer, saying he actually has no idea and 'no one does.'"

But Sanders once did admit the harsh reality of how his plans would be paid for during a debate over the summer. Here's the exchange between Sanders and NBC's Savannah Guthrie..:Sanders: People who have health care under "Medicare for All" will have no premiums, no deductibles, no copayments, no out of pocket expenses. Yes, they will pay more in taxes, but less in health care for what they get.

So, here's what we now know about Sanders' plans for America:

1) He isn't sure how much they will cost.

2) He isn't totally sure how he will pay for them.

3) It's likely they will be paid for by an increase in taxes on the middle class.

Whoo boy. Maybe Sanders is right that America is ready for a fundamental reorienting of how we value ourselves, our society and our money. But if he's not -- and this election winds up being like virtually every other election in which people vote on who is going to let them keep more of their money -- then Sanders (and Democrats by extension) have a big problem.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/24/politics/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-2020/index.html

[Hoyt]

1. Interesting Sanders says MFA will cost about $30 Trillion over 10 years, Warren says it's $52 T.

That's a big difference. I guess it doesn't matter if none of us will have to pay for it, unless we are filthy rich.

[SunSeeker]

3. Wow, I had not heard that $52T figure from Warren.

I'm sure her math is much better than Bernie's. Unfortunately, I think her precision and honesty has cost her votes.

[Voltaire2]

9. The costs will be shifted from premiums copays

deductibles and mystery bills to taxes. If you are well off you might see a small increase, but the vast majority of working people will see a decrease in their total healthcare costs.

Of course it is easier to just claim it’s free stuff or that only the rich will pay for it or that we should only look at what MFA costs and ignore what it costs to do nothing.

[Hoyt]

13. Everyone gets premiums, out-of-pocket costs, etc., will be converted to taxes, etc.

But Sanders doesn't know what it will cost. Warren says it's 73% more than Sanders.

Some people might pay less, others might pay more. Small businesses that are barely making it and don't provide benefits, will now pay taxes. Maybe that is good to get everyone covered, but I think people would like to know how much it is going to be before voting for it.

And, on top of MFA, we have to pay for climate change, jobs training, deficit and debt reduction, bolstering social security, college debt, "free" college, child care, etc. How much is that going to cost. Again, it may be worth it. But I think most people want a RELIABLE price tag on these things.

[Voltaire2]

19. So when you wrote

"I guess it doesn't matter if none of us will have to pay for it, unless we are filthy rich." What exactly did you mean, as that seems to be the point I addressed.

[Hoyt]

21. Simple -- Sanders and Warren are trying to convince us we'll get all this stuff

without paying for it. That’s polulist junk.

[Voltaire2]

33. Neither of them are doing that. Instead that is a standard rightwing talking point

that somehow social programs funded through taxes are 'free stuff'.

[Hoyt]

36. It is when Warren says the middle-class and below won't pay a penny. That's

simply populist junk.

[Turbineguy]

2. I wonder how much will be saved

in insurance costs, medical costs and suffering.

[SunSeeker]

6. The suffering of dying for lack of care is incalculable.

I'm not saying the middle class shouldn't have their taxes increased to pay for M4A, but Bernie is really going to need to come up with a better response to justify middle class tax increases than he gave on 60 Minutes and to Savannah Guthrie. And he needs to know the numbers, so people can decide if they'll be better off. Otherwise, they will assume he's withholding the numbers because he knows they won't like it.

[bunny planet]

4. Maybe

He should have quoted this study instead....
https://www.google.com/amp/s/finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/medicare-save-450-billion-68-232211541.html

[Democrats_win]

5. Google: how much does the U.S. spend per year on healthcare?

Answer: $3.5 trillion (in 2017)

So over ten years we will probably pay in the neighborhood of $35 trillion for medicare without Sander's plan ANYWAY.

Of course we're talking about future spending and inflation must be included because health care costs are gonna go up! If you can control the costs--which is a big IF, you might do better than Warren's 52 trillion. In fact we really do need to do something about growing costs in medical care: thus the need for Sander's plan

On Democracy Now! today left-leaning economist Richard Wolff said that most Americans don't really care about the debate they just want the healthcare. The old making sausage analogy. It's ugly, tell us when it's finished. In the Democratic Debates, I'm sick of this particular debate. Just know that we can't continue with big insurance screwing us out of medical care. Oh, and don't forget Trump is going to screw everyone out of medical care if we give him more time.

[Turbineguy]

8. Also...

I suspect that the insurance companies are fine with price increases since their system is now based on "cost plus 15 percent".

[Demsrule86]

14. That is not going to concern the average voter...they care about their situation and Sanders

would lose millions of insurance jobs...it would be chaos...we would be shown the door...and the GOp would pass nothing.

[msongs]

7. he knows how much the F35s cost and he supported them anyway nt

[Deero]

12. he will win neither.

You will see.

[Demsrule86]

15. He won't win Florida which has been trending red and he has a bad history with Castro.

[TexasTowelie]

22. .

[uponit7771]

26. last three months of polling n Florida disagrees with you

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/fl/florida_trump_vs_sanders-6842.html

[Nanjeanne]

11. Well since it's such a disaster I expect it will show in the S.C. and Tuesday primaries

And then everyone will relax because Sanders will be out of the race.

[stopbush]

16. The average American would pay 35-45% of their earnings in federal taxes

and increases in FICA taxes under Sanders’ plans that include MFA, free college tuition etc. That’s what they pay in Europe. Why would it be different here if we adopt a European-style plan?

THAT is what the electorate needs to know. You want democratic socialism? Let’s have an honest discussion. Who knows? Americans might be just fine with that.

[SunSeeker]

18. Exactly. Bernie could have had this discussion with Vermont's law.

But he would not. And when it came to implement the taxes needed to finance the Vermont single payer law, he went AWOL, leaving Vermont single payer activists twisting in the wind.

[Voltaire2]

20. The average american is paying around 5000/yr in out of pocket health care costs

on top of their premiums.

Those costs will disappear. I'm sure you factored that into your analysis, right?

[uponit7771]

24. No one believes Sanders on the cost

[stopbush]

25. Yes, I did.

BTW - average is just that. Average.

Americans with employer-provided insurance incur widely different medical expenses from year to year. Most years, expenses are manageable. Occasionally, expenses are catastrophic. People cross their fingers that their medical expenses are not exorbitant. They are OK with their employer plan most years because they don’t have high out-of-pocket expenses in co-pays etc.

That’s a difference that never gets discussed when the subject is MFA. People are not going to be happy paying higher taxes for their health care every year when they are relatively healthy, while they will naturally be overjoyed when their health does go south and they get good MFA healthcare without high out-of-pocket costs associated with ill health.

MFA advocates are asking the Average Joe to contemplate a future benefit from MFA while looking at their current finances taking a hit through tax increases that will be necessary to fund MFA.

[C_U_L8R]

17. This scares the crap out of me

What's Sanders been doing the last four years? His plan is essentially the same. You'd think there'd be some details? Are we all supposed to trust our savings and livelihoods will be safe if trillions are dismissed as mere nickels and dimes?? I admire the goals but I am not confident that this won't lead to ruin. I'm looking and listening for reassurance that there's a competent plan of action. Sadly, anyone who questions him gets yelled at.

[uponit7771]

23. Cooper: Do you have -- a price tag for all of these things? Sanders: No, I don't... jus damn

[NoMoreRepugs]

27. Is it me or are a bunch of the Bernie supporters/loyalists as

angry as Bernie? Seems that way.

[empedocles]

28. The BS vetting gets more serious.

[David__77]

29. People may be perplexed at those not caring.

People can see the country in which they are living.

[delisen]

30. Sanders possibly does not want to say it will come from military budget

I don't think one really needs to say were the money is to come from.

Sanders proposals are a wish list of what he sees is needed for most people to have a good life.

Agree on what is needed, then develop a budget is a reasonable approach.

[Gothmog]

31. Sanders still won't be honest with the American people about how much his plans cost

Link to tweet

[Scurrilous]

32. K&R

[betsuni]

34. K&R

[onetexan]

35. There BS goes again, promising things he can't deliver.