Finally, Can We All Agree? Everything We Were Told About Bernie Sanders Was Wrong

[Uncle Joe]

(snip)

He has a ceiling on his support. Sanders, said the critics, wouldn’t be able to reach out beyond the left, beyond young voters, beyond his base. In Nevada, however, Sanders won a plurality of self-identified “moderate” or “conservative” Democrats. In fact, as the Washington Post’s Matt Viser tweeted: “The Sanders win was emphatic: he prevailed among those with college degrees and those without; in union, and nonunion households; in every age group except over 65… and even narrowly carried moderates and conservatives.”

Sanders’s critics have long ignored the reality that the senator from Vermont is popular with grassroots Democrats of all backgrounds. Not only is he the most popular member of the Senate, but he also has the highest net favorables of any presidential candidate with Democratic voters. He also happens to be the candidate who the biggest proportion of Democrats “expect” to prevail against Trump. As Peter Beinart noted in The Atlantic last week, “Across the ideological spectrum, ordinary Democrats like Bernie Sanders.”

Some on the right of the party have tried to argue that Sanders has been benefiting from his “moderate” opponents splitting the vote between them; they have pointed to the fact that Iowa gave 54 percent of its votes to Pete Buttigieg, Amy Klobuchar, and Biden combined, versus 44 percent to Sanders and Warren, while New Hampshire gave 53 percent to the three moderates, versus 35 percent to the two progressives. Yet in Nevada, Sanders alone won more votes than Buttigieg, Klobuchar, and Biden combined. And, in head-to-head matchups, Sanders beats each and every one of his Democratic rivals — including Bloomberg by 15 points!

He has a problem with people of color. The longstanding argument that Sanders struggles with black and Latino voters, that his supporters tend to be white, male “Bernie Bros,” is perhaps the most pernicious and dishonest anti-Sanders argument of them all. After three contests, it is clear that the Jewish senator from Vermont is now heading a multiracial, multifaith coalition of both Democrats and independents. In Nevada, this past weekend, he is estimated to have won a whopping 70 percent of the Latino vote.

(snip)

https://theintercept.com/2020/02/24/bernie-sanders-electability/

This is a good read.

[hlthe2b]

1. Remains to be seen. VERY PREMATURE for an conclusion article like this.

Albeit, I'm glad to see it isn't Greenwald or Ryan Grimm

[corbettkroehler]

59. These Numbers Look YUGE

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[hlthe2b]

61. ? I think you have been listening to Trump too long.

[corbettkroehler]

63. How About These New Yorkers?

Link to tweet

[hlthe2b]

64. when as much as 54% to 75% combine to oppose Sanders, I think you have a problem.

Show me some data that all or a large part of them WILL immediately come over to support Sanders...

[Moderateguy]

2. Extremely premature at this point

He needs to demonstrate this level of support in multiple states before it can be argued that he has this support

[ramen]

20. This is the only data we have so far.

It's encouraging. We'll see how he fares on super tuesday and should know a lot more from those results as well as looking at data analysis like this from those states.

[msongs]

3. everything told about Him was wrong. so like he will win? hmm nt

[unc70]

4. Ah! The Intercept

Are we now allowed to link to it?

[awesomerwb1]

5. Intercept?

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

6. What will the excuse be when he loses S. C.

Hmm

[DENVERPOPS]

13. What will be his excuse when he looses?

Same as Trumps: Putin Interfered with the election.......LOL

[Mr.Bill]

14. I bet it will have the word

"establishment" in it. Please, folks, we wore that word out 50 years ago.

[calimary]

32. But it could be argued...

... with 16 years in Congress (from 1991-2007) and then a Senator since 2007, um, how does that NOT make an office-holder with such a service record part of the “establishment”? Someone serving in DC for almost 30 years, I would think, is by definition part of the “establishment.”


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders

[uponit7771]

52. +1

[Downtown Hound]

24. What is Biden's excuse for not winning a single state so far?

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

26. Wasn't expected to win either

At least by logic.

[Downtown Hound]

27. And Bernie was never expected to win South Carolina

So your point is moot.

[USALiberal]

58. LOL, what is Joe's excuse for losing EVERY STATE??? nt

[Laelth]

77. The better question is ...

... what will Biden say if Bernie wins SC?

Most likely ... “I am suspending my campaign for President.”

This is a distinct possibility. I am not happy about it, but it is what it is.

-Laelth

[George II]

7. How is it that in New Hampshire, his neighboring state which had record turnout, he got only half...

....the votes that he got last time?

All those extra voters and yet a fraction of his previous votes.

Similarly in Iowa, all those volunteers canvassing the state for months and he couldn't eke out a win there, either.

So yes, I agree with your Thread Title.

[Liberty Belle]

55. There were more candidates this time to divvy up the vote.

[George II]

57. So you're implying that those who voted for him in the past really didn't want to?

[yaesu]

8. For about a decade I enjoyed brunch with Bernie every Friday via the TH show. I learned a lot about

him and his hard work for this country during those 1 hour talks. He is a true patriot, a true American that believes in We The People.

[Uncle Joe]

9. Thank you for sharing yaesu.

[redqueen]

21. Thanks for sharing this.

[KPN]

25. I did the same.

[Mr.Bill]

36. Name the other Democratic candidates

who are not true patriots and who don't believe in We The People.

[Anniem60]

39. I listened too and loved him

I also listened to Bernie every week and he is as authentic as it gets. Nothing more annoying than the crap thats being thrown out by Carvelle, Matthews and Todd. These are irresponsible people who are very comfortable in their own lives so why change to a better system? This is the attitude of countless neoliberal dems.

[ProfessorPlum]

72. THANK YOU! I was beginning to think I was the only human being

who had heard those discussions. Sanders is such a warm, knowledgable, and moral human being, and it came across in those talks with TH years before he even ran the first time.

[EveHammond13]

10. he just registered for re-election to the SENATE 2024 as an INDEPENDENT

he's not even planning on winning.

[Butterflylady]

18. Thank you for that information.

[ramen]

23. When you say "just registered" do you mean a year ago?

That is the only information I am seeing after some googling about the topic.

[maxsolomon]

11. I was told he was 78, turning 79 before Election Day.

I was told he had a heart attack in October.

Was that wrong, The Intercept?

[NurseJackie]

15. I was told that he's had a heart attack, a fainting spell, osteoporosis, and a hernia.

... and we still do not have his complete medical records as promised. Only a "doctor's note" summary. Not good enough, Bernie. Not good enough.

[zentrum]

12. Thank you for posting this.

[Uncle Joe]

16. Thank you zentrum.

[zentrum]

70. Back atcha!

[Kurt V.]

17. 2020 sanders is not 2016 sanders. he has broaden his coalition.

[Uncle Joe]

19. I agree Kurt

[OnDoutside]

53. Sanders hasn't changed one iota, apart from his heart attack of course.

[Kurt V.]

60. he changed on identity politics. that was huge

[NurseJackie]

22. Everything he's said about the Democratic party IS WRONG. Where's the apology and retraction?

Everything he's said about the Democratic party IS WRONG. Where's the apology and retraction?

It's NOT TRUE that Democrats are "ideologically bankrupt". It's NOT TRUE that the Democrats are "intellectually bankrupt". It's NOT TRUE that Democrats are "feeble". It's NOT TRUE that Democrats are "corrupt". It's NOT TRUE that the Democratic party is an "absolute failure". It's NOT TRUE that the Democratic party is "the party of the one-percent". It's NOT TRUE that the Democratic party is the "party of the elite". It's NOT TRUE that there's "no difference between Democrats and Republicans." It's NOT TRUE that the Democrats "are the same as the GOP". It's NOT TRUE that Democrats are "do-nothings". It's NOT TRUE that the Democratic party "doesn't care about climate change." It's NOT TRUE that the Democrats "focus too much" on diversity. It's also NOT TRUE that people who the refuse to vote for an African-American because of his skin color "aren't racists". It's also NOT TRUE that the Democrats who "are very big into diversity" aren't "particularly sympathetic" to the working class.

When he apologizes and admits that he was not telling the truth, then I'll consider supporting him.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287570879
Bernie is an extremely divisive figure in our party. Many Democrats resent his use of our party when it’s convenient for him, rather than being committed to the party full stop. And saying “but he votes with/caucuses with the Dems most of the time” doesn’t make him a Democrat, no matter how many times it's said.

Even when Bernie runs on the Democratic ticket, he attacks the party. That doesn’t exactly endear him to committed party members – especially in today’s political environment, when being a united party is key. By stating that “the Democratic establishment AND the Republican establishment can’t stop him”, he is being extremely divisive by putting himself out as someone who is actually running against BOTH parties, and not as someone who is running FOR the party that he is supposedly running on behalf of.

[forgotmylogin]

28. I'll vote for the D no matter who it may be.

Prove it and win the nomination, Bernie.

[Skittles]

29. LOL

um.....NO

[Old Terp]

30. I remember how sure we were back in 1972 that McGovern was going to win

And he was only a liberal and was a likable person.

[Uncle Joe]

31. I remember 1971-1972 Nixon; an incumbent President with an approval rating of around 53% and

the closest thing to the Internet that we had were eight track tapes.

[Anniem60]

69. McGovern had a terrible running mate

There’s many reason McGovern lost, 1) he wasn’t a good speaker, very soft spoken not assertive at all 2) he had a running mate who had had shock therapy that was found out 3 mos prior to election. This killed his chances. Not the same situation. Bernie is very outspoken and not shy on policies.

[Downtown Hound]

33. Nixon had dominated the polls against both Mcgovern and Humphrey

So, I am sorry you lost, but it's not a valid comparison.


https://theharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Harris-Interactive-Poll-Research-MCGOVERN-EMERGING-AS-STRONG-PRESIDENTIAL-CONTENDER-1972-05.pdf

[BigBearJohn]

34. I remember in 2016 I was so sure Hillary was going to win

[ehrnst]

78. She did. More votes than any candidate not named Obama. It was stolen.

[wnylib]

35. The RIGHT wing of the Dem party?

What RW of the Dem party? There are centrists and progressives. Period.

I am to the left of the centrists. But I do not support Sanders. So much for the validity of this article's analysis.

The real issue is what support for Sanders will be outside of the Dem party, in the general election. Will he be able to win the crucial electoral states to get a majority of electoral college votes?

If he wins the general, who will be in his administration?

[Hulk]

41. Good question....but he has a way to go before focusing on that.

But that is almost as important as winning the White House AND the Senate.

We should have a great chance to pick off the "low hanging fruit", and maybe even Moscow Mitch and ms. Graham. We need to work on booting their asses out..AND another dozen obnoxious House members.

[wnylib]

47. So you think Sanders will carry

the down ticket candidates?

I do not believe he can carry the presidential ticket.

[PTWB]

50. Honestly I don't think it matters who we run this cycle.

We could run Bob the Dog Catcher and it wouldn't make much difference in the election. This contest is all about Trump. He’s a hero to some and a cancer to others - they’re going to be voting for him or voting against him.

I would love to see someone get elected who can pull our party and the whole country to the left, but really it doesn’t matter who we nominate.

I’m going to be voting against Trump. I’ll hold my nose and vote for Bloomberg if he is our candidate. I’ll vote for Warren or Biden or Bernie or Pete. I’ll vote for Bob the Dog Catcher if that’s who we nominate.

But again, bottom line, people are either going to be voting for Trump or against him. He’s such a polarizing figure.

[Hulk]

51. Time will tell

There are other candidates I like just as much as Bernie , but he seems to have the momentum at the moment .

Not sure how it would affect the down ticket candidates . I think a Bernie Trump race might energize a lot of people who might otherwise sit on their hands, November 3 .

Again time will tail .

[MuseRider]

37. Thanks Uncle Joe!

Nobody is perfect and Bernie never suggested he was. In fact I bet he would admit that he is nowhere near perfect.

I have waited a long time for a person with the courage to suggest we change our path from one of punishment and ostracizing others to one of helping and growing and working together for a real nice country where we all have chances to help not imprison others and feed not leave them to steal or starve. Whatever he gets done is great but the best part is the changing of minds that should follow, a legacy I hope to see left behind from all of this.

Other candidates have great plans but I see parts that are missing from what I see in Bernie. They will be fine, with the exception of Bloomberg I will vote for any of them. Bloomberg is going to take a serious shot of good whisky and nose holding but against Trump he seems marginally better if I can ever get used to looking up that royal nose.

[Uncle Joe]

38. Thanks for sharing MuseRider.

[beastie boy]

40. Did The Intercept ever disagree with anything Bernie ever said?

[uponit7771]

42. Sanders has no historical swing state appeal outside of MOE, Biden has the most. Could care less ...

... about primary voters.

[cstanleytech]

43. "Can We All Agree?" Ok, the day we "all" agree on something will be a sign of the apocalypse.

Can most of us agree? Certainly as I think most of agree Trump, McConnell and pretty much every single Republican in the House and Senate are pieces of shit for example but some will still say "x is not that bad" or some such.

[matt819]

44. In response to the op question

Well, that kind of depends on who was doing the telling and much more.

That said, it’s too early to say how far he will go.

The Russia thing is an issue. IMHO he is being used as a pawn to exacerbate the chaos of the past four years. His failure to say anything about the briefing was a pretty large lapse in judgement. And I think Russian involvement calls into question poll results and much more. Think about it. If the Russians are fucking with the process to build him up, they can just as easily fuck with the process to bring him down. Timing is everything.

Any candidate is going to have baggage that the party of Putin will exploit. Bernie’s baggage is pretty substantial. Btw I’m not excluding Biden or warren or Pete or mike or Amy here. You don’t get to the point of running for president without baggage.

Personally, I don’t like the idea of an independent running as a Democrat.

And I’m not a big fan of the hostility of some of his supporters, especially the Bernie or bust sort.

But, hey, maybe Bernie is genuinely resonating with primary voters. If so, and if it continues, okay.

Whoever gets the nomination gets my vote. I would like to hear Bernie and his supporters commit to the same.

[booley]

65. Funny thing is Bernie isn't the pawn

IMHO he is being used as a pawn to exacerbate the chaos of the past four years.

Bernie isnt' the pawn here.

The one feeding into the story, making it grow and mutate, they are the ones being used.

How much chaos has been created by people attacking Sanders because they heard Russia was helping him? Whos driving that wedge?

[matt819]

68. Once again

Once again. Russia is driving the wedge. The wedge is Bernie. I’m not saying or suggesting that he’s a willing dupe, but he he is being used, as are the rest of us.

[pnwmom]

45. This is from libertarian Glenn Greenwald's publication. Can't we all agree not to post

their opinion pieces here?

1 tiny primary and 2 small caucuses hasn't changed anything yet.

Why are Bernie's supporters having so much trouble waiting at least till Super Tuesday? What would Bernie's supporters have said if Hillary's had tried to declare victory at the same point in 2016?

[Pacifist Patriot]

71. And that whopping win in Nevada was based on a voter turnout of what percentage again?

From what I can see, Nevada historically has a massive gap between caucus/primary and GE turnout. All states do, but their gap is particularly notable. I can't remember which is 2016 and which is 2018, but caucus/primary to GE turnout in that state has been something like 23% to 63% one of those years and 18.5% to almost 77% another.

[pnwmom]

73. He got 34% of the raw vote -- hardly a whopping win. And the raw vote is the only number

that refers to actual voters and can be compared to results in primaries.

[Pacifist Patriot]

74. Sorry.

Didn't think I needed the sarcasm smilie. That was my point. Hardly a whopping win.

[PupCamo]

46. anything about him being an apologist for Castro

and other totalitarian regimes?

[StClone]

49. As read of FR

[Liberty Belle]

56. Today he said Putin should stay out of U.S. elections, adding that

if he's elected he will make sure that happens.

In another interview over the weekend he made clear he did NOT approve of Castro's authoritarian leadership.

He also denounced Trump for his closeness to Putin and to North Korea's murderous dictator.

While Sanders can't unring the bell of statements he made decades ago, he is saying the right things now to distance himself from dictators and further, point out that if anyone in this race has been cozy with dictators in recent times, it's Trump. Just let Trump raise this issue on a debate stage and Bernie will shred him.

[LiberalFighter]

48. Mehdi Hasan appears to be biased in his "reporting".

[Gothmog]

54. What was provien wrong in the real world?

Link to tweet

[booley]

62. My one criticism with this is how it forgot abotu second choice

I keep harping on this I know but the fact is Sanders remains the second choice for a lot of voters.

So if Biden or Warren or whoever drop out, Sandr sis the one who would have picked up those votes. That so called "moderate vote" is a sham showing clear contempt for the actual voters.

[Uncle Joe]

67. I agree booley and

Bernie has been underestimated on this front.

[SidDithers]

66. The Itercept...

Sid

[Sparkly]

75. In the Primary.

The General is a whole other ballgame.

[LanternWaste]

76. Glenn Greenwald's getting a historical rehabilitation from you guys, eh?

I suppose kissing the hem of sacred cows allows one the tabula-rasa that a rebirth conveniently provides.